Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Chrona on <01-13-12/1126:41>
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*Throws F14 lightning ball*
.... *mutters* Force halved, counterspelling, shielding ... hmmm ... can I ignore this?
That's still a F7 coming your way and with Edge..... no you can't especially with my luck. xD
I can see him easily buying off the entire force with counterspelling and sheilding =P
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*Throws F14 lightning ball*
.... *mutters* Force halved, counterspelling, shielding ... hmmm ... can I ignore this?
That's still a F7 coming your way and with Edge..... no you can't especially with my luck. xD
I can see him easily buying off the entire force with counterspelling and sheilding =P
If you have that much dice nice, that's about 13 damage without counting possible 6's and/or bad/good luck, and only going off 1 hit per 3 dice. xD Very nice.
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Well, Lightning Bolt is an Indirect Combat spell. So Zilfer rolls Spellcasting + Magic + foci + totem (if any) + Spirit bonuses +/- visibility. We'll say visibility's a wash. Overcasting to Force 14.
My character, for these purposes: Reaction 10, Counterspelling 6, Initiate 9, Counterspelling Focus 3, with Shielding and Arcane Arrestor (halves Force). Body of 4, Impact armor 7 + Insulation 2 (FFBA + Mortimer Greatcoat). Don't know if it applies -- pretty sure it doesn't -- but Dodge (Ranged) 6 (+2), Gymnastics 6 (+1 Improved Ability), Quickness 15. (Please note -- this is not the Wyrm.)
You know, I still don't get how people get 20+ armor.
Base DV is (Force / 2) + 3, which becomes ((14 / 2) / 2 ) + 3, or (rounding in Zilfer's favor) 4 + 3 = 7. Impact halved (rounding in my favor, this time) = 4 + 2 = 6.
So the defending character is rolling 10 + 6 + 9 + 3 = 28 dice, averaging (28/3) 9 hits to counter spellcasting hits. If the spell gets through, then 4 + 6 = 10 dice against any remnant, averaging 3 successes, which would inflict ... 5 boxes of damage with the minimum 1 successful hit on the spellcaster's part.
How nasty is the spellcaster, Zilfer?
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Don't know if it applies -- pretty sure it doesn't -- but Dodge (Ranged) 6 (+2), Gymnastics 6 (+1 Improved Ability), Quickness 15
I am pretty sure it does apply, if you announce a full defense. It's handled like normal ranged attack!
But Quickness 15 wouldn't have any influence. It's from a wrong edition and you already use Reaction.
Base DV is (Force / 2) + 3, which becomes ((14 / 2) / 2 ) + 3, or (rounding in Zilfer's favor) 4 + 3 = 7.
Mixing up Damage Value and Drain Value?
Damage Value is just 14/2 = 7. Drain Value is 14/2 + 3 = 10.
So the defending character is rolling 10 + 6 + 9 + 3 = 28 dice, averaging (28/3) 9 hits to counter spellcasting hits.
Adding Full Defense its raised to 36 dice, averaging 12 hits to evade.
Attack estimates could lead to:
6 (Spellcasting) + 2 (Combat Spells Specialization) + 9 (Magic) + 4 (Power Focus) + 3 (Spellcasting Focus) + 2 (Mentor Spirit) + 6 (Aid Sorcery) = 32 dice.
Giving the wyrm a 68% evasion chance (defender wins on ties).
If the spell gets through, then 4 + 6 = 10 dice
Only 4+4 dice. Insulation helps only versus cold. Against electricity you need non-conductivity.
If he gets one net hit though, still averaging in 3 hits and 5 boxes of damage.
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You know, I still don't get how people get 20+ armor.
Full-body FFBA suit 6/2
Steampunk line with gel packs and Carbon-boron infusion 9/10
SecureTech PPP System(all except helmet) +2/+4
Ballistic Mask +2/+1
Quizzel fairy/dragon wings +1/+1
Thats 20/18(counts as 17/17 for encumbrance so you need body 9 min to wear that) with only worn armor, you can add ware and/or magic on top of that.
Or if your a big troll and have one hand free, then you can add a ballistic shield for +6/+4 taking you to 26/22(23/21 for encumbrance so needs body 12)
8)
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A troll that big wearing fairy wings, BTW, won't get any hassle or abuse from anyone!
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Thats 20/18(counts as 17/17 for encumbrance so you need body 9 min to wear that) with only worn armor, you can add ware and/or magic on top of that.
Or if your a big troll and have one hand free, then you can add a ballistic shield for +6/+4 taking you to 26/22(23/21 for encumbrance so needs body 12)
8)
You're forgetting Softweave on the Steampunk outfit. That will reduce the encumbrance by Str/Str, which is a minimum of 5 for a Troll, IIRC.
Also, if you're a Troll you get another +1/1 for your Dermal Deposits. +2/2 if you SURGE and take the Dermal Deposit quality as well.
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Well, Lightning Bolt is an Indirect Combat spell. So Zilfer rolls Spellcasting + Magic + foci + totem (if any) + Spirit bonuses +/- visibility. We'll say visibility's a wash. Overcasting to Force 14.
My character, for these purposes: Reaction 10, Counterspelling 6, Initiate 9, Counterspelling Focus 3, with Shielding and Arcane Arrestor (halves Force). Body of 4, Impact armor 7 + Insulation 2 (FFBA + Mortimer Greatcoat). Don't know if it applies -- pretty sure it doesn't -- but Dodge (Ranged) 6 (+2), Gymnastics 6 (+1 Improved Ability), Quickness 15. (Please note -- this is not the Wyrm.)
You know, I still don't get how people get 20+ armor.
Base DV is (Force / 2) + 3, which becomes ((14 / 2) / 2 ) + 3, or (rounding in Zilfer's favor) 4 + 3 = 7. Impact halved (rounding in my favor, this time) = 4 + 2 = 6.
So the defending character is rolling 10 + 6 + 9 + 3 = 28 dice, averaging (28/3) 9 hits to counter spellcasting hits. If the spell gets through, then 4 + 6 = 10 dice against any remnant, averaging 3 successes, which would inflict ... 5 boxes of damage with the minimum 1 successful hit on the spellcaster's part.
How nasty is the spellcaster, Zilfer?
Very nice :D
I'd only have a total of like.... lets see, spell casting 7 + 7 magic (woot first thing i've bought with this character karma wise) + 3 spellcasting focus (combat) + 2 Specialization (combat spells) + 6 edge is only 25 dice. If we go averages, that's what 7 hits? we'll say half of them 6's with and round down for 3 extra rerolls and that makes 1 additional hit. So total of 8 hits 22 DV.
(think i did that right for the situation)
Here's my example roll just in case.
Initial roll
25d6.hits(5) → [6,6,2,3,6,3,1,1,2,4,6,3,4,6,4,4,5,2,3,1,4,2,3,6,5] = (8)
Link
http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/3331264/
Edge rerolled dice
6d6.hits(5) → [2,3,4,1,3,5] = (1)
Link
http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/3331268/
So yeah i was close, around 8ish hits.
Your opposing dicepool however is impressive, question about sheilding however how does that work? And you can do both Dodge and Gynmastic's in the same dice pool?
But yeah if you have 9 initiation, i'm sure you've played your character much longer than mine. XD Aw well.
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Lethe, thanks for the corrections, whether elegantly laid out or not. ;) 15 Agility; Quickness shoulda been kept, dammit!! ;) I absolutely messed up DV and DV -- base damage for a spell is the Force, no modifiers, huh? Didn't used to be so, but I haven't played a spellcaster in a while. And of course I'm bumblefooting around on mixing up the inner linings ...
Max, that <i>is</i> silly-insane. Note to self -- remember these things for the future ... :P :) Chem rounds are the answer. Or a friend with vehicular weapons. And I'll laugh at whomever I want, Canray -- from a safe distance, of course...
Zilfer -- so you'd be Edging it right off? Didn't expect that, but okay. :)
In any case. 8 hits would fizzle against 9. (And since I hadn't spent Edge, I'd definitely toss one in if it hadn't failed, though obviously after the initial roll ... which would be 19 dice, or average 6 more hits.) Note that for damage, Force would be halved -- 7, not 14 -- because of Arcane Arrestor. After which point the meterage is crossed and there's a blade passing laterally through your ribcage ... ;)
For Shielding, you simply add your Initiate grade to your counterspelling dice.
If you declare a full Defense, you can add your Gymnastics skill (Tumbling specialization, I believe) to your Dodge. A lot of players, when building characters, take gymnastics automatically instead of Dodge, but I prefer covering both bases. ;)
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You're forgetting Softweave on the Steampunk outfit. That will reduce the encumbrance by Str/Str, which is a minimum of 5 for a Troll, IIRC.
That only reduces the higher value, so no use for the character without shield (12/17 still requires 9 body), but yes it allows you to carry the ballistic shield with only 11 Body.
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You're forgetting Softweave on the Steampunk outfit. That will reduce the encumbrance by Str/Str, which is a minimum of 5 for a Troll, IIRC.
That only reduces the higher value, so no use for the character without shield (12/17 still requires 9 body), but yes it allows you to carry the ballistic shield with only 11 Body.
*facepalm* Riiiight.
Still, Body 11 is Perfectly doable for a Minotaur, Fomori, or any other Troll with Metagenetic Improvement (Body). Soft-cap to 10 and spend 5bp on Restricted Gear to get Suprathyrod Gland, or just buy one later. SG also does +1 to Agil, Reflex & Str as well, so that's a nice bonus.
EDIT: Also, reading the splat text, apparently there's supposed to be evening-cloak type bits that give you the same +1/+1 armor as the Quizzel Wings when added to an outfit. Still look a bit goofy, but not as goofy, I think. And who's going to tell giant Troll loaded for a serious throwdown his cloak is out of style?
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Lethe, thanks for the corrections, whether elegantly laid out or not. ;) 15 Agility; Quickness shoulda been kept, dammit!! ;) I absolutely messed up DV and DV -- base damage for a spell is the Force, no modifiers, huh? Didn't used to be so, but I haven't played a spellcaster in a while. And of course I'm bumblefooting around on mixing up the inner linings ...
Max, that <i>is</i> silly-insane. Note to self -- remember these things for the future ... :P :) Chem rounds are the answer. Or a friend with vehicular weapons. And I'll laugh at whomever I want, Canray -- from a safe distance, of course...
Zilfer -- so you'd be Edging it right off? Didn't expect that, but okay. :)
In any case. 8 hits would fizzle against 9. (And since I hadn't spent Edge, I'd definitely toss one in if it hadn't failed, though obviously after the initial roll ... which would be 19 dice, or average 6 more hits.) Note that for damage, Force would be halved -- 7, not 14 -- because of Arcane Arrestor. After which point the meterage is crossed and there's a blade passing laterally through your ribcage ... ;)
For Shielding, you simply add your Initiate grade to your counterspelling dice.
If you declare a full Defense, you can add your Gymnastics skill (Tumbling specialization, I believe) to your Dodge. A lot of players, when building characters, take gymnastics automatically instead of Dodge, but I prefer covering both bases. ;)
o.O' that's news to me in the dodge department/gymnastics skill. I thought a full defence you only got your dodge. I might have to look into that. My next initiate grade i'm definately getting shielding then I thinks. :D
Yeah, 6 edge allows me to spend it a bit more than usual though I can say i'm damn impressed with your defences. Hopefully my character will eventually get to that level of initiate.... one day... xD
There's only about 212 karma left for me to go just for the initative grades.... boy i've got a long way to go. :D (is excited after seeing that)
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Well, on the Magic side of the Mystic Adept, spellbreaking is pretty much all the charcter does. I'm not entirely certain how to phrase it; Aspected Magician? Incompetent might be appropriate, but it'd be taken for four different things, and honestly, that's just wrong. What I've come up with is this ...
Aspected Magician
Defensive Aspect (5 BP)
The magician (or mystic adept, wherein are found the majority of this aspected magician) possess brutal penalties for most active uses of their magical power. (This does not apply to adept abilities, note.) For Spellcasting, Ritual Spellcasting, Conjuring, Binding, Arcana (for any 'active' design use, as compared to 'knowledge' use), and Enchanting, the magician receives a -6 to their dice pool. Counterspelling, Banishing, Assensing, and Astral Combat are their primary focus. Defensively-aspected mystic adepts very frequently follow the Path of the Warrior, and are known on the street as 'mage-killers' due to their relatively high resistance to magic.
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Yeah, I made a changling called Mageslayer for that, has arcane arrester, and Astral Hazing.
So.... my own spell with my almost pure mage guy against Mageslayer would dwindle even further... xD
F14 - 4 = F10 / 2 = F5
That's if it's done in that order, I figure it at least gives the spell caster a chance eh?
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Yeah, I made a changling called Mageslayer for that, has arcane arrester, and Astral Hazing.
So.... my own spell with my almost pure mage guy against Mageslayer would dwindle even further... xD
F14 - 4 = F10 / 2 = F5
That's if it's done in that order, I figure it at least gives the spell caster a chance eh?
Actually, Astral Hazing puts the character in the middle of a -4 Background Count that applies to any spells being cast on him, which reduces your effective Magic for the spell, not the spell's Force.
It's more like this:
F14 - 8 = F6 / 2 = F3
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Actually, Astral Hazing puts the character in the middle of a -4 Background Count that applies to any spells being cast on him, which reduces your effective Magic for the spell, not the spell's Force.
It's more like this:
F14 - 8 = F6 / 2 = F3
Only if your standing so close to him that your actually casting the spell inside the BC, but then it's not a force 14 spell in the first place(well unless you have magic 11 to start with)
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Only if your standing so close to him that your actually casting the spell inside the BC, but then it's not a force 14 spell in the first place(well unless you have magic 11 to start with)
Incorrect. Allow me to quote the writeup of Astral Hazing from Runner's Companion, p116:
Astral Hazing
Bonus: 10 BP (for non-Awakened characters),
15 BP (for Awakened characters)
A character with this quality has expressed metagenes that somehow catalyse and feed on the character’s darker emotions and negative feelings, disturbing the character’s aura and any ambient mana in her vicinity. For reasons not yet understood, the character becomes an aspected domain in her own right and taints astral space around her wherever she goes; a generator of tainted astral background count (similar to a cyberzombie).
This astral haze affects all attempts to cast magic on, at, or in the vicinity of the character. Whatever the ambient mana conditions are, the character always stands at the heart of a Rating 4 background count (see p. 117, Street Magic) that extends a number of meters from her body equal to her Essence; this background count also impairs her own actions if the character is Awakened. If she remains in one place for long, the background count expands by one meter in every direction every two or three hours (at the gamemaster’s discretion).
Emphasis is, of course, mine.
According to the text, it doesn't matter if you're inside or not. The haze is apparently not the same as a normal Domain background count, in that it will disrupt all magic targeting the character generating the Haze, whether the origin of the spell is inside the zone or not.
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It says affects, but not really how. I would still agree with Zilfer though.
SM states only that the magician loses magic while in BC. Pre-existing spirits, spells, foci that go into the BC will get reduced by BC. Literally the example there is only for sustained spells taken into BC, but same should work for spells cast from outside into BC, they are kinda preexisting and taken into as well. This also doesn't conflict with your "affects all attempts to cast magic on" quote, as it clearly gets affected.. like in normal BC.
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It says affects, but not really how. I would still agree with Zilfer though.
SM states only that the magician loses magic while in BC. Pre-existing spirits, spells, foci that go into the BC will get reduced by BC. Literally the example there is only for sustained spells taken into BC, but same should work for spells cast from outside into BC, they are kinda preexisting and taken into as well. This also doesn't conflict with your "affects all attempts to cast magic on" quote, as it clearly gets affected.. like in normal BC.
Dude, seriously, are you kidding me? That's one of the cheesiest bits of double-talking sophistry I've ever heard. It damn well does state how it affects the attempts, in the very next sentence. The attempts are treated as being in a 4-point Background Count.
Besides, why the hell would they feel the need to specify anything about how the Background Count generated by Astral Haze works if its behavior was identical to a normal Mana Ebb or Domain with the same count?
And, finally, yes your interpretation bloody well does conflict, because right after the word "on" is the word "AT". Don't even try to tell me that isn't meant to cover indirect combat spells, since those are about the only single-target spells where "on" doesn't apply.
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So far as I can tell, he was agreeing with you...
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So far as I can tell, he was agreeing with you...
As near as I can translate what he said, because honestly I had a hard time parsing his sentence structures, he was agreeing with Zilfer, who was calling for a -4 reduction, applying the BC against the Force of the spell directly, rather than reducing the mage's Magic by 4 before the Force is even set.
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It damn well does state how it affects the attempts, in the very next sentence. The attempts are treated as being in a 4-point Background Count.
Not really. Not the "attempts" are treated as being in a R4BC, but the character with astral hazing. It only states that the BC has an effect, if a spell is cast on/at that character, it doesn't state what effect.
A character not in a BC area himself never gets a magic reduction, not even if he targets his spell there. It doesn't say so in the Astral Haze description and it doesn't say so in the BC description.
Besides, why the hell would they feel the need to specify anything about how the Background Count generated by Astral Haze works if its behavior was identical to a normal Mana Ebb or Domain with the same count?
1. The behaviour is identical to Mana Ebb or Domain only for the astral haze character himself or for people very close to him, so they are still in that BC area he creates. People standing a few meters away are not influenced by it. Why should they?
2. SM says that every magical thing (spell,focus,spirit) that enters a BC gets its force reduced by BC rating.
We have those two possible effects considering BC. Astral hazing only says, the attempt to cast magic on/at/near the specific character is affected, meaning only when the spell enters the BC. Couldn't that effect not be the one described in SM? Why would you want to reduce the casting magicians magic by the BC rating as if he stands in the BC, when he actually is not.
And, finally, yes your interpretation bloody well does conflict, because right after the word "on" is the word "AT". Don't even try to tell me that isn't meant to cover indirect combat spells, since those are about the only single-target spells where "on" doesn't apply.
Of course indirect combat spells get reduced as well, all spells that enter the BC.
But if there is an indirect area combat spell cast to outside of the BC, while the astral haze character is still in range of the spells effect(only the physical part), then it would not reduce the force of the spell.
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Astral hazing in a pistol forum? What a jungle! :P Is there a way to "unsubscribe" to a thread? Or rename one? Haha.
Good point. Topic has been split.
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Thanks, FastJack. ~ My character Bit-split.
(o.O' heh no pun intended)
Anyways, If your example is correct JustADude, does that mean if i cast a Lightning ball F14 it get the -8 to even the people outside of it? That's what it sounds like your saying that I might as well be standing in the Background Count if my magic so much as touches the thing.(you do know this is a negative quality right? It's got enough going for it to have me question whether it truly is that negative....)
I'm failling to see where your emphasis matters.... if your casting "on the person" obviously your casting through the BC right? Which is -4..... in the description..... I can cast Control thoughts "on" my character it's not going to lower my magic unless i'm in his background count of E(ssence) meters away from his body. Anything casted into a Background count only affects the force of the spell if your not in it correct? I don't see why my magic would be taking a hit.
The way I see it it's like this.
You can try and make a snowball in hell and throw it but your magic's not going to do too well becuase not enough mositure, you may not get a big ball for lack of it. (in my example this is a lack of mana in the area)
Next you can throw a snowball into hell, and while it will disolve faster once thrown into hell it's very easy to make a bigger snowball outside hell. It will melt fast but not as fast as the prior one. (normal mana being thrown into a BC)
Anyways that's just how i'm picturing it right now.
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I'm failling to see where your emphasis matters.... if your casting "on the person" obviously your casting through the BC right? Which is -4..... in the description..... I can cast Control thoughts "on" my character it's not going to lower my magic unless i'm in his background count of E(ssence) meters away from his body. Anything casted into a Background count only affects the force of the spell if your not in it correct? I don't see why my magic would be taking a hit.
*facepalm*
Okay, so BCs already have a known effect on magic going into them, which drops the force of the spell by -4?
I guess I was just not understanding what Lethe was trying to say that first time. My bad.
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I'm failling to see where your emphasis matters.... if your casting "on the person" obviously your casting through the BC right? Which is -4..... in the description..... I can cast Control thoughts "on" my character it's not going to lower my magic unless i'm in his background count of E(ssence) meters away from his body. Anything casted into a Background count only affects the force of the spell if your not in it correct? I don't see why my magic would be taking a hit.
*facepalm*
Okay, so BCs already have a known effect on magic going into them, which drops the force of the spell by -4?
I guess I was just not understanding what Lethe was trying to say that first time. My bad.
Yeah a Background count drops it by whatever number the background count. Astral Hazing the quality says you are sitting at a background out of 4 so casting into it is -4. Pretty sure that's how it goes, if not no worries I don't mind being corrected. :D
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*facepalm*
Okay, so BCs already have a known effect on magic going into them, which drops the force of the spell by -4?
Awesome that you finally realised that you dont actually have any idea how background count works.
Good think you din't go around telling people they are wrong before realizing that, oh wait ;)
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*thwap*
He admitted he was wrong. No need to rub salt in the wound.
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*thwap*
He admitted he was wrong. No need to rub salt in the wound.
Maybe it gets him to read and try to understand the relevant rules before commenting next time, thats always a worthy goal to drive people toward 8)
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And people give me sh!t for being an asshole.
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*thwap*
He admitted he was wrong. No need to rub salt in the wound.
Maybe it gets him to read and try to understand the relevant rules before commenting next time, thats always a worthy goal to drive people toward 8)
If that was your goal, the best way to do it is to take them aside in private and talk about it. The whole public shaming thing does little to encourage a sense of community. Wyrm and I disagree on several points, on several issues, but you don't see me trying to do those kinds of things to him, do you? And he certainly hasn't done the same to me. Besides making you a better member of the community, people are less likely to take advice from someone who goes out of their way to rub their nose in it. It is the difference between teaching, and pointing and laughing at people who screw up until they no longer screw up.
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*thwap*
He admitted he was wrong. No need to rub salt in the wound.
Maybe it gets him to read and try to understand the relevant rules before commenting next time, thats always a worthy goal to drive people toward 8)
Apparently, I'm a horrible, horrible person for not realizing I'd missed part of the BGC rules before anyone ever pointed it out to me.
Oh, wait, if I'd done that, I wouldn't have missed it in the first place.
Misunderstanding something isn't the same as not understanding it at all, alright? I'm not perfect, and I make plenty of mistakes, but I try to at least know what color my socks are before I stick my foot in my mouth.
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Red. No, blue! Waaaaaaauuuuuuuggghh!!
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Red. No, blue! Waaaaaaauuuuuuuggghh!!
Ekke Ekke Ekke Ekke Ptangya Ziiinnggggggg Ni!
EDIT: If you don't get it, you haven't watched Holy Grail enough.
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Apparently, I'm a horrible, horrible person for not realizing I'd missed part of the BGC rules before anyone ever pointed it out to me.
Can you honestly say that you went and re-read the BGC rules after mine or lethes post?
Both of witch at least heavily implied you had missed something.
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Apparently, I'm a horrible, horrible person for not realizing I'd missed part of the BGC rules before anyone ever pointed it out to me.
Can you honestly say that you went and re-read the BGC rules after mine or lethes post?
Both of witch at least heavily implied you had missed something.
Obviously not, otherwise why would I have waited until Zilfer said something to speak up? Up until then, I had thought Lethe was simply arguing an unfounded alternate interpretation.
And, ya know what, it's still not a 100% fuck-up on my part because, while the "reduced Force" interpretation does have a bit more weight behind it thanks to the text in question, SM p118 only talks about preexisting spells that are being sustained, anchored, or quickened. I was willing to concede the point because, honestly, treating an active spell cast into the BG count the same way makes sense, but it's not an explicit rule on the topic.
Frankly, you sound like like a smug, arrogant, self-important little twit that's trying to gloat, so how about you quit trying to come off as some perfect paragon of human virtue and just let the subject drop?
And trust me, I'm having to strongly resist using language a lot stronger than 'twit'. The kind of language that would make Fastjack have to redact my post.
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Frankly, you sound like like a smug, arrogant, self-important little twit that's trying to gloat, so how about you quit trying to come off as some perfect paragon of human virtue and just let the subject drop?
How is it arrogant to expect people to have the common decency to check that they know what their talking about before claiming others are wrong or accusing them of double-talking sophistry. :o
To me thats just part of the basic forum etiquette.
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Frankly, you sound like like a smug, arrogant, self-important little twit that's trying to gloat, so how about you quit trying to come off as some perfect paragon of human virtue and just let the subject drop?
How is it arrogant to expect people to have the common decency to check that they know what their talking about before claiming others are wrong or accusing them of double-talking sophistry. :o
To me thats just part of the basic forum etiquette.
Ah, and more of the self-righteous indignation. Wonderful.
And, since you're either every bit as ignorant as you've accused me of being or just acting that way so you can keep pretending you're a perfect, special little snowflake, I'll lay out for you exactly why I was justified in making that accusation.
The statement I was remarking on was Lethe's assertion that Astral Hazing does not specify how the spells are affected, which it, in fact, does. That is, they are treated as if being cast into a Rating -4 Background Count. The rules in Street Magic may be unclear on the exact effect of an active casting heading into a Background Count, but that is not due to any lack of clarity on the part of Astral Hazing. Saying otherwise because it requires a small level of inference to make the connection between the incoming spells and the character's BCG is sophistry, pure and simple,
Said comment about a lack of a solid definition was then immediately followed by an assertion that Lethe's own interpretation of the situation (i.e. that spells being actively cast into the Background Count are treated the same as a sustained spell being walked in) is the definitive answer to the problem. Such a juxtaposition of positions is double-talk in the political sense... although I will admit 'hypocrisy' may have been a better choice of words.
...
Really though, now that I've been thinking on it a while, I honestly don't see why the way an existing Mana-construct like a Ward is altered by a Background Count has any sort of definitive bearing on active casting. My original assertion, that any spell cast on the character with Astral Hazing counts as if the caster were in a Rating 4 Domain, also has validity, since a mystical link has to be established to the target before the spell can be enacted. With Hazing, the far end of the link is experiencing interference from the Domain similar to what the Magician would have to deal with the interference if they were standing in the Domain and the target were in a Zero Background area, thus creating the same result.
Of course there's also Options 3 and 4, given that Astral Hazing is a Negative Quality, which is that the Aspect of the Rating 4 Domain actually gives a 4 point boost to incoming magic designed to harm the character, either in the form of a Magic boost to the caster or by upping the final effect by 4 Force.
I should thank you for the gloating. If you hadn't pissed me off by trying to kick me when I was down and got me looking things over again I might have actually walked away from this thinking I was truly in the wrong, instead of realizing that there are, in fact, several equally valid ways to interpret Astral Hazing.
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And now we're getting somewhere ;)
Really though, now that I've been thinking on it a while, I honestly don't see why the way an existing Mana-construct like a Ward is altered by a Background Count has any sort of definitive bearing on active casting. My original assertion, that any spell cast on the character with Astral Hazing counts as if the caster were in a Rating 4 Domain, also has validity, since a mystical link has to be established to the target before the spell can be enacted. With Hazing, the far end of the link is experiencing interference from the Domain similar to what the Magician would have to deal with the interference if they were standing in the Domain and the target were in a Zero Background area, thus creating the same result.
IMO the mana spells use to cause their effect originates from the casters and travels down the mystic link to the target(The descriptions of combat spell types especially give this image), so i dont see any reason for the target areas BC to affect casters magic attribute.
Also i think this would make BC in general and Astral Hazing in particular, a way too good a protection from magic.
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And now we're getting somewhere ;)
Really though, now that I've been thinking on it a while, I honestly don't see why the way an existing Mana-construct like a Ward is altered by a Background Count has any sort of definitive bearing on active casting. My original assertion, that any spell cast on the character with Astral Hazing counts as if the caster were in a Rating 4 Domain, also has validity, since a mystical link has to be established to the target before the spell can be enacted. With Hazing, the far end of the link is experiencing interference from the Domain similar to what the Magician would have to deal with the interference if they were standing in the Domain and the target were in a Zero Background area, thus creating the same result.
IMO the mana spells use to cause their effect originates from the casters and travels down the mystic link to the target(The descriptions of combat spell types especially give this image), so i dont see any reason for the target areas BC to affect casters magic attribute.
Also i think this would make BC in general and Astral Hazing in particular, a way too good a protection from magic.
Which I mention again, Astral Hazing is supposed to be a metagenic negative qualty. Yes I understand it makes you a walking torch, but it's more like a walking torch of.... don't mess*(substituted) with me kind of walking torch. I think it kind of gives more than it takes. Sure some AAA's probably want to catpure you, but it probably won't be easy, and you definately will make it more costly than it's worth. (if you don't they'll keep comin right?) :D
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IMO the mana spells use to cause their effect originates from the casters and travels down the mystic link to the target(The descriptions of combat spell types especially give this image), so i dont see any reason for the target areas BC to affect casters magic attribute.
Also i think this would make BC in general and Astral Hazing in particular, a way too good a protection from magic.
Look at it like a wireless connection, or better yet a Radar signal... something that needs feedback from the target to work properly
In that analogy, Ebbs would be the equivalent of having a weak power supply, browning out your equipment and forcing you to boost the gain higher to get the same signal, while Domains cause Background Count via all sorts of extra "static," making it hard to maintain signal coherence... again, causing you to have to boost the gain, but via a very different method.
The way I see it, Domains act like an Area Jammer (Masking, of course acts like Signature Reduction ;) ) in that it interferes with being able to get a "Sensor Lock" on the target, with your Magic Rating replacing Sensor Rating in the equation. And, of course, a Jammer works equally well no matter if it's placed at the sender or the receiver of the transmission.
Which I mention again, Astral Hazing is supposed to be a metagenic negative qualty. Yes I understand it makes you a walking torch, but it's more like a walking torch of.... don't mess*(substituted) with me kind of walking torch. I think it kind of gives more than it takes. Sure some AAA's probably want to catpure you, but it probably won't be easy, and you definately will make it more costly than it's worth. (if you don't they'll keep comin right?) :D
Right. Which is probably why it's not allowed in Missions, since the worst repercussions aren't going to ever show up in a generically scripted, mass-consumption scenario. Not saying the Missions aren't fun, or well-done, just that they're not designed to include the more "out there" possibilities.
But, like I said, an easy way to solve the whole "Positive Quality That Gives You Build-Points" angle would be to have the Domain's Aspect boost incoming whammies... but then it'd be a bit under-priced, considering any spell cast against you would be able to wipe the floor with you.
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From Mageslayer.... to Magephobic.... XD
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Well, the damn thing is supposed to be a negative instead of the positive people seem to be grabbing it as. I can see non-friendly spells getting bonuses against the individual. Since this applies to cyberzombies as well, how about 1 point of effect per 2 points of background count they generate/are in?
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Yes, currently i don't see the necessary disadvantage in the quality. But a change in function should change the name as well. Astral Hazing is quite unambiguous. Suggestion:
Astral Sink
A character with this quality draws magic from his surroundings into him. Every spell cast near (5m radius) or onto him gets its Force reduced by 4, but also causes 2S unresisted damage.
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Astral hazing in a pistol forum? What a jungle! :P Is there a way to "unsubscribe" to a thread? Or rename one? Haha.
Good point. Topic has been split.
For a while I was going "I didn't start a topic...??"
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Well, the damn thing is supposed to be a negative instead of the positive people seem to be grabbing it as. I can see non-friendly spells getting bonuses against the individual. Since this applies to cyberzombies as well, how about 1 point of effect per 2 points of background count they generate/are in?
Indeed which is why I grabbed it and build "mageslayer" as a character because i could see a character like that though it felt like i was getting that for "free" almost. *Shrugs*
If it did increase the spells coming at them it would definately feel more like a negative quality.