Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Looking for Games => Topic started by: Murphy01 on <01-15-12/2308:02>
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Hey, just tossing out a quick plug for the MUD I GM on. its at forums.seattle2064.net. We have a small pbase but are always looking for new players. It is based on 3rd edition Shadowrun rules. For those who may not know what a MUD is, its a text based online game using a telnet client such as MUSHclient. Its a lot of fun if you don't need pesky graphics.
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Did that one used to be called Awake?
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Its a MUD, or a MUSH?
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If my supposition is correct, then definitely MUD, if I'm wrong, then I hope it's a MUD. I've tried a MUSH and a MUCK, and both types suck royally. MUSH and MUCK have no decent mechanical systems.
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Because its more like roleplaying where MUDs are kill-the-bots :)
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Plenty of RP can be had on MUDs. I'm a bit biased though because I do like the mechanics (I just don't go overboard on the MUDs like some I've seen).
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MUD is a very rigid system, which basically allows for D&D style games, and little else. In MUSH, MUX, MOO, and other similar setups, the actual codebase is lighter, which allows you to do more actual coding. In practice, this means that it is easier to simply go to the master 'room', and code in the commands and mechanics for Shadowrun, and then it would filter out to the rest of the rooms. There are also widgets you can make that will allow you to do customized charsheets, and the like.
Just because MUSHes are typically done for freeform or semi-freeform games doesn't mean they can't be used for things like Shadowrun or D&D. It would be significantly more difficult to code a MUD to fall in with SR3, much less SR4.
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Just because MUSHes are typically done for freeform or semi-freeform games doesn't mean they can't be used for things like Shadowrun or D&D. It would be significantly more difficult to code a MUD to fall in with SR3, much less SR4.
Agreed; I know for a fact I've played Storyteller (aka, World of Darkness) games via MUSH before.
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MUD is a very rigid system, which basically allows for D&D style games, and little else. In MUSH, MUX, MOO, and other similar setups, the actual codebase is lighter, which allows you to do more actual coding. In practice, this means that it is easier to simply go to the master 'room', and code in the commands and mechanics for Shadowrun, and then it would filter out to the rest of the rooms. There are also widgets you can make that will allow you to do customized charsheets, and the like.
Just because MUSHes are typically done for freeform or semi-freeform games doesn't mean they can't be used for things like Shadowrun or D&D. It would be significantly more difficult to code a MUD to fall in with SR3, much less SR4.
The MUD called Awake was based on SR3, and my only problem with it is that the coders stuck with the base corebook--priority--system. I'd probably go back and try it again if it ever switched to point buy and upgraded to the new version.
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Just in case anyone wants to check this out, try this address instead:
mud.seattle2064.net
port 4000
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Translation for us english-speakers? I know MUD, but...MUSH? MUCK? MUX? MOO? I feel lost, and google turned up the definitions of the actual words muck, mush, etc.
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Okay since I started this rolling,
Yes it used to be called Awake2062 not to be confused with Awakened worlds
A Mush is a Multi User Shared Hallucination
A Mux is a Multi User eXperience
Basically different names for the same thing
I am plugging it because I think it needs a bigger playerbase
I use it as a virtual way to play SR3 with a variety of people.
You will find a helpful crew that is newbie friendly and if you see me on, come to the Shamrock and I'll buy ya a beer.
As far the guy who mentioned point buy, frankly the owner is working on it but needs coders to help out cause the last guy who owned the site kind of hashed it up.
And yeah, there's no graphix but as a chum told me the best graphics card is between your ears, the hard part is upgrades.
A final note, please no more Night Ones.
Hope to see ya around
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Oh and one other quick note. Seattle2064 is an RP encouraged MUD. Which means you don't just run around with guns out, shooting wageslaves in the face. There are autoruns where you do kill the bot, but I mostly run player runs, which use your character and the dice command to actually do an SR3 mod.
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On a related note... does CGL now own all the stuff that came out for before they bought Shadowrun, or do the IP rights to the older books still belong to the previous holders?
And, in either case, does anyone know the SR3 IP holder's official stance on the acquiring of "unofficial" digital scans of source books?
I ask only because, to the best of my knowledge, the material in question is no longer being printed, distributed or marketed by CGL, FAFA, or anyone else, and it's starting to look rather like an "Abandonware" type situation.
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I think CGL does have the rights on those now because they are offering pdfs of 3rd ed books on their site and you can even get PoD (print on demand) versions of them via drivethru-rpg now....
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Translation for us english-speakers? I know MUD, but...MUSH? MUCK? MUX? MOO? I feel lost, and google turned up the definitions of the actual words muck, mush, etc.
I feel old.
These are what we used to play back before there was MMOs.
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The simplest way of describing a MUD is a text-based MMO. Back before chatrooms, there was this thing called Telnet. Using telnet, you could connect to a server by going to the address. Not a URL, the actual address. A string of numbers that means absolutely nothing to you if you don't know the nuts and bolts of how data at point A gets through various routers and servers to the server at point B.
One day, someone thought "You know, let's find some way to have fun with this" and thus, AberMUD, TinyMUD, LPMud and DikuMUD were born. In the early days of the internet, these games were open source, and they multiplied faster than tribbles, since anyone with enough money for the server fees could run one, even if they didn't have the coding knowledge to expand the game beyond the basic setup.
MUSHes, MUXes, MOOs and their like came along later, as some people started wanting an experience that wasn't a hack & slash D&D adventure, and turned to new codebases that allowed a more freeform style of play.
Over time, people decided that raw telnet scrawled by too quickly for them, and since there was no way to scroll back and see what you missed, this was a problem. So they developed clients to both allow you do do macros and to enhance the way you play. Some clients were more geared towards MUD users, while others lent themselves to the freeform style of MUSHes.
And they are certainly still around today, despite the rise of MMOs.
But instead of going first to google, why don't you try wikipedia when you want a general description of something?
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MUSHes, MUXes, MOOs and their like came along later, as some people started wanting an experience that wasn't a hack & slash D&D adventure, and turned to new codebases that allowed a more freeform style of play.
Over time, people decided that raw telnet scrawled by too quickly for them, and since there was no way to scroll back and see what you missed, this was a problem. So they developed clients to both allow you do do macros and to enhance the way you play. Some clients were more geared towards MUD users, while others lent themselves to the freeform style of MUSHes.
And they are certainly still around today, despite the rise of MMOs.
Ah, I see. I have played a MUD or two, but I never heard of the variants before. Thank you for clarifying that for me.
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Null sheen.
One thing to say about MUSHes and their ilk is that while you tend to have more roleplaying in them (actual roleplaying, as opposed with the 'roleplaying' you see on a RP server on WoW), things tend to be divided into 'scenes', much like you'd see in a stage play. Proper etiquette is to type everything in the third person and past tense, and to use a more passive mode of action when dealing with the environment (especially when dealing with other PCs and NPCs run by someone who is running an 'event').
These would be incorrect ways to do things:
I stab the man with my sword.
Mirikon grabs the stone and leaps out the window.
Mirikon swept Nadja into an embrace, kissing her deeply.
These would be correct ways to do things:
Mirikon thrust out with his blade, trying to stab the man in the chest.
Grabbing the stone, Mirikon turned, and dashed for the window, attempting to leap through it.
Mirikon stepped in close, and, if she did not resist, swept Nadja into an embrace, kissing her deeply.
The wording may seem a bit convoluted at times, but it is there because the MUSH environment is best described as 'collaborative storytelling', and so you don't want to step on people's toes. Also, it gives others in the scene a chance to react to what you wrote.
This brings up another point (one that applies well to play-by-post games like here on the forums, as well). The more you write, the more other players have to play off of, which makes the scene more interesting for everyone involved. If your IC (in character) post is a single sentence, what hook does that give the people you're with to play off of? Let's just take one of the examples above.
Crap:
Mirikon stabbed at him with his sword again.
Better:
Darting in, Mirikon slashed out with his sword, aiming for the guard's belly.
Best:
Flourishing his blade, Mirikon parried the guard's blow, using the motion to slip inside the man's guard. With a deft thrust, he stabbed upward with his blade, looking to impale the man upon his sword.
The first sentence conveys action, but gives absolutely nothing to the roleplay. The second is better, but is clearly not as informative as the third. In a text based medium, the more descriptive you can be, the better. At the very least, try for a simple paragraph (4-5 sentences) in a post.
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I think CGL does have the rights on those now because they are offering pdfs of 3rd ed books on their site and you can even get PoD (print on demand) versions of them via drivethru-rpg now....
Ah, well, if it's still available then that's awesome. I'll have to pick them up when I get the cash, if only to see how things were before Crash 2.0.
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Null sheen.
One thing to say about MUSHes and their ilk is that while you tend to have more roleplaying in them (actual roleplaying, as opposed with the 'roleplaying' you see on a RP server on WoW), things tend to be divided into 'scenes', much like you'd see in a stage play. Proper etiquette is to type everything in the third person and past tense, and to use a more passive mode of action when dealing with the environment (especially when dealing with other PCs and NPCs run by someone who is running an 'event').
These would be incorrect ways to do things:
I stab the man with my sword.
Mirikon grabs the stone and leaps out the window.
Mirikon swept Nadja into an embrace, kissing her deeply.
These would be correct ways to do things:
Mirikon thrust out with his blade, trying to stab the man in the chest.
Grabbing the stone, Mirikon turned, and dashed for the window, attempting to leap through it.
Mirikon stepped in close, and, if she did not resist, swept Nadja into an embrace, kissing her deeply.
The wording may seem a bit convoluted at times, but it is there because the MUSH environment is best described as 'collaborative storytelling', and so you don't want to step on people's toes. Also, it gives others in the scene a chance to react to what you wrote.
This brings up another point (one that applies well to play-by-post games like here on the forums, as well). The more you write, the more other players have to play off of, which makes the scene more interesting for everyone involved. If your IC (in character) post is a single sentence, what hook does that give the people you're with to play off of? Let's just take one of the examples above.
Crap:
Mirikon stabbed at him with his sword again.
Better:
Darting in, Mirikon slashed out with his sword, aiming for the guard's belly.
Best:
Flourishing his blade, Mirikon parried the guard's blow, using the motion to slip inside the man's guard. With a deft thrust, he stabbed upward with his blade, looking to impale the man upon his sword.
The first sentence conveys action, but gives absolutely nothing to the roleplay. The second is better, but is clearly not as informative as the third. In a text based medium, the more descriptive you can be, the better. At the very least, try for a simple paragraph (4-5 sentences) in a post.
Heh. I freaking wish I could get players to describe their combat as anything more than 'I hit him with my Killing Hands.' They do okay on posting general emotes and sometimes even actions, but there have also been times where I've had to prod them along. 'Guys..go..now...expediently....today....before you combust.' It's ordinarily at combust, that there are a flurry of emotes. ;)
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Translation for us english-speakers? I know MUD, but...MUSH? MUCK? MUX? MOO? I feel lost, and google turned up the definitions of the actual words muck, mush, etc.
I feel old.
These are what we used to play back before there was MMOs.
You ARE old.
Sadly...so am I..
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Heh. I freaking wish I could get players to describe their combat as anything more than 'I hit him with my Killing Hands.' They do okay on posting general emotes and sometimes even actions, but there have also been times where I've had to prod them along. 'Guys..go..now...expediently....today....before you combust.' It's ordinarily at combust, that there are a flurry of emotes. ;)
It's all about the style, really. I've been MUDing and MUSHing since the days when you had to direct-dial the servers, and I was so young at the time I didn't even really realize that MUDs were based off anything else, because nobody had ever told me about AD&D.
But, yeah, 'I shoot a Long Narrow Burst at the guy' is what I'd say at-table, just to keep things moving, but in a text based environment, it'd be more like...
(ed.note: My MUSH experience is 3rd-Person-PRESENT-Tense is proper etiquette, so that's what I'm using.)
Mr. Soft growls under his breath as he staggers back from the impact of the bullet hitting him in the chest, looking down to confirm that his armor caught it and he's not bleeding. No blood, but the fragin' slotter just put a hole in one of his favorite coats, and those things don't come cheap in his size. Good thing he decided to wear the ballistic plates tonight, too. The troll lifts his battle rifle up, the lethal mass of metal and plastic looking almost toy-like in his huge hands as he gets ready to make his displeasure known in a very definite manner. The targeting information from the smart-link glides smoothly across his vision as he draws a bead on his intended victim and jams the trigger, the suppressed weapon making a *THUP*THUP*THUP* noise as a hail of bullets rip through the night.
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That's an awesome emote. You old guys should come play. Bog knows we need better planners than some of the runners I have now. Last run was break into a corp house and steal a data chip. After finding out the guy works during the weekday, they came up with some retarded plan to have two of them with sniper rifles take out the guys limo while the other two rush in on bikes and snag the guy(I guess to beat the location or something out of him). This plan was rejected (since they didn't know which car he would be in ) and they decided to go that night while dude is at his house with his bodyguard. They break in the front door and all three of them (One guy left the run) get taken down by the bodyguard they knew was there. She was a stock NPC right out of Mr.J's lil black book abd took out two 100 Karma + PCs with a Narcoject.
Very Sad
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I think CGL does have the rights on those now because they are offering pdfs of 3rd ed books on their site and you can even get PoD (print on demand) versions of them via drivethru-rpg now....
Ah, well, if it's still available then that's awesome. I'll have to pick them up when I get the cash, if only to see how things were before Crash 2.0.
TBH I preferred the matrix rules from earlier versions to the current wireless version even tho its more of a realistic look at what the future could be like. i loved playing a combat decker who had to break into buildings to get into secure servers because they had no hard wire connections to the outside world... but the rules got to be alot messier as in dealing with server security levels and what not...
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She was a stock NPC right out of Mr.J's lil black book abd took out two 100 Karma + PCs with a Narcoject.
Very Sad
*facepalm*
That... wow...
Seriously... did nobody think to throw some flashbangs (note, not one flashbang, but SEVERAL) through after they kicked down the door?
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Sometimes the dice gods just hate you.
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I did try it briefly, but I have issues with that it uses the outdated system of SR3 and that the second worst chargen system is used (the worst being karmagen). If it upgraded to build point (i know it was said earlier a coder was working on it) and also upgraded to the current rule set, I feel it would be much improved. I also do not like something a player I know from another MUD told me about the GMs requiring special permission to advance an aspect of your character via karma (attributes).
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*facepalm*
That... wow...
Seriously... did nobody think to throw some flashbangs (note, not one flashbang, but SEVERAL) through after they kicked down the door?
Nope. The pair that went in first saw the house with closed blinds. Back area dark, front area tridset going at high volume. They left the third guy across the street in a hedge as overwatch. Keep in mind they are 2blocks from an A security shopping area. They sneak up to the house, use a laser mike to determine that, yes in fact, the trid is playing. This apparently satisfied them so Bennet pulls out his magloc passkey and pops the FRONT door.
He eases it open and the bodyguard (who was doing her job and watched then approach on a camera) takes her held action, fires two darts and misses. She closes the distance, Tokiko rushes past Bennet and pulls out a monowhip. The guard dodges and sweeps Tokiko's legs out from under her. BG steps up to Bennet who throws a punch, she ducks under it, sticks her Lethe against his side and drops him. Second pass same round she spins and puts two darts in the back of Tokiko's head as she's getting up.
Greg watches this go down, and fires his UNSILENCED AK97 through the front window, causing the BG to know that a third person is out there and makin lights and nosy neighbors wake up all down the street. .Greg charges across and leaps throught the shattered window... in time to catch 2 darts in the face.
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Sometimes the dice gods just hate you.
Actually, I had given them Good Karma for rerolls that they blew doing silly stuff earlier in the run. So, it wasn't bad rolls it was bad planning and a comedy of errors.
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I did try it briefly, but I have issues with that it uses the outdated system of SR3 and that the second worst chargen system is used (the worst being karmagen). If it upgraded to build point (i know it was said earlier a coder was working on it) and also upgraded to the current rule set, I feel it would be much improved. I also do not like something a player I know from another MUD told me about the GMs requiring special permission to advance an aspect of your character via karma (attributes).
Sorry you feel that way. I like our MUD and it's because I can do runs like the one I've described here.
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Edit Portion: Murphy, I know you're probably a good administrator, but what your head staffer did just screams unprofessional. I know it's his/her game and they can run it the way they want to, but c'mon.
This is a log of something that just went down on the Seattle 2064 MUD. My name is Daiden on there. Their 'head administrator' decided to act accordingly and I guess call my bluff? I have no clue. Anyway, I felt I should post this on here and on the dumpshock forums so people are aware of what they are about to step in to. Yeah, I might have been out of line, but really? Insulting a new player (Madison) is uncalled for. Me myself? I made my own bed.
Madison |]newbie[| how do i iniate a call on my phone
[0.00] 10p/10m
Madison |]newbie[| help phone doesnt say how to make a call
[0.00] 10p/10m
Someone |]newbie[| Here's a crazy thought. Help phone.
[0.00] 10p/10m
Leon |]newbie[| 'help phone'
[0.00] 10p/10m
Daiden |]newbie[| Give me a second, I am in the newbie area. I think it was here.
[0.00] 10p/10m
Someone |]newbie[| Hah. She's actually right
Leon |]newbie[| That is an interesting oversight.
[0.00] 10p/10m
Someone |]newbie[| I guess common sense just fails people sometimes. Try 'call'.
[0.00] 10p/10m
Leon |]newbie[| Yeah it's 'call phonenumber'
Madison |]newbie[| thanks i guess
[0.00] 10p/10m
Madison |]newbie[| ya know rude sarcasam is not called for when people ask legitimate questions
[0.00] 10p/10m
Daiden |]newbie[| In order to draw attention to the game and promote a friendly atmosphere, I'd think people would attempt to not discuss common sense or the lack there of concerning new players.
[0.00] 10p/10m
Someone |]newbie[| Fine, you're offended by my sarcasm. Fuck off, move on.
[0.00] 10p/10m
Daiden |]newbie[| Yay for intollerant asses on the NEWBIE channel.
Someone |]newbie[| A quick way to get yourself removed from the game is to insult those who run it. Especially after being told to move on.
[0.00] 10p/10m
Madison |]newbie[| i dont even know how to respond to that....maybe you are the reason the player base is so low
[0.00] 10p/10m
Daiden |]newbie[| Sounds good to me. I'll just be sure to email the head administrator. Can I get your name? I'm also posting this log on forums.dumpshock.com so that everyone knows about your attitude toward new players.
Someone |]newbie[| It's got nothing to do with new players. It's entirely about attitude and intelligence. I don't coddle people. Nobody is flawless, and Madison is right - the helpfile is lacking. I'll be fixing that shortly. On the other hand, you can also list all commands and a little experimentation would have resulted in success. I won't apologizing for not having polished the silver spoon to feed you with.
Madison |]newbie[| thank you Daiden
Daiden |]newbie[| No problem, Madison. "Someone," I'm perfectly okay with the lack of help files. I've run games in the past and I know that above all else, Helpfiles are a huge pain in the ass. Despite thise, the way you have just handled yourself is completely out of line. If you want to call it sarcasm, that is fine by me. But you are a staff member and this is a newbie channel. People will ask questions on here in order to get helpful information, not be treated as if they are stupid for not trying out every single command that they can think of in order to perform a function within the game.
Madison |]newbie[| notice someone refused to give their name
Hadrian |]newbie[| Hey, here's a thought. I'm the head admin.
Daiden |]newbie[| That really sucks for you then.
[0.00] 10p/10m
Hadrian |]newbie[| Actually, I'm very content with things, as are most people. This is not a public forum, your views on how things should be done are fine - but they are yours, they have no impact here.
[0.00] 10p/10m
Daiden |]newbie[| You don't think the way you conducted yourself on the newbie channel will have any impact here?
Hadrian |]newbie[| According to the data I have at hand, Daiden, you've been here a week and haven't managed to make it through character creation. As there isn't that much in there to truly do, I can only assume your primary intent here is to troll and be annoying, which you have excelled at over the last seven days. Do you have anything actually constructive to offer, or do you think the phantom bogeyman of a log on a site I have nothing to do with in some way bothers me?
[0.00] 10p/10m
Madison |]newbie[| be that as it may you are very very hatefull to newbies. Why?
[0.00] 10p/10m
Hadrian |]newbie[| I haven't been remotely hateful to newbies. You are inferring things that do not exist.
[0.00] 10p/10m
Daiden |]newbie[| Actually, I work 60+ hours a week and was out of internet communcation for much of this past weekend. I also take my time when creating a character because I want to get it right. I am also not familiar with my 3rd edition Shadowrunning, so this is actually taking me some time. Feel free to check earlier logs to see if I've ever trolled before now.
[0.00] 10p/10m
Madison |]newbie[| i understand reading emotions in text is difficult, but just so you know, you are coming across as hatefull and sarcastic. Do you not want new players?
[0.00] 10p/10m [Tracy] (OOC), "Ohhhhhhhh, man"
[0.00] 10p/10m
Hadrian |]newbie[| Madison, if you truly wish to discuss my philosophy or mentality on things, we can do that sometime, but not on the newbie channel, where it is patently not appropriate.
Madison |]newbie[| thats reasonable
[0.00] 10p/10m
Hadrian |]newbie[| In any event, my core staff has the utmost of my trust, and I've never seen them do or say anything to sway that. If you don't like me, or even them, then that is certainly how you have opted to feel about things. We all have MUDmail, and e-mail addresses available for personal grievance.
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Okay, with a staff member like that, screw it, even if things were to alter--even minimally--to where the problems I have with it are alleviated, I still am not going to be playing that game. I've had enough of MUD staff like that from other MUDs. In fact, had it been me the admin in question was being like that toward, I would have not only logged it, but also posted the log in a review on mudconnector.
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I want to see what Murphy says before I post the log on mudconnect.com the rest of the players on there seem very nice, but that one staffer who claims (and likely is) to be the head staffer is a representation of that entire game.
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Replied to Seether via PM.
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... and I will not be posting to mudconnect.com. I spent several hours last night while working on my character reading the ooc chatter (I usually take a little bit when making a character... and my 3rd edition knowledge sucks, oh and I am making my first 3rd edition Decker). What I thought was abusive behavior on the game turned out to be something more along the lines of a misfired attempt at a joke. Overall, the players are pretty nice other than the instance I posted above. Though I say this, I will not be removing my earlier post on here or on the dumpshock forums.
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You should still post it on mudconnector. While it may be said by the person who acted in such a manner toward you that it was a "joke", it is more likely that when confronted, he claimed it was to "get out of trouble".
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Anyone know if there's a 4e MUD? I could TRY to relearn 3rd, but there was so many things I didn't care for in the system that I feel 4e fixes...or at least gets close to.
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Anyone know if there's a 4e MUD? I could TRY to relearn 3rd, but there was so many things I didn't care for in the system that I feel 4e fixes...or at least gets close to.
It'd be much better if there were, but a lot of the SR MUD players are those so stuck in their ways that they assume because SR2 or SR3 are older that they're automatically better. I even know of one who called me a crap gamer because I prefer SR4--then again, the same person pretty much calls any system crap if you can't lose a limb or die from one attack...
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Sounds like he needs to play Dark Heresy, but this is the wrong forum for that convo. I guess I'll jump into Awake or something.
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Having read the MUD transcript, I'm glad I'm working on the text-based matrix simulator (http://eveslist.crisses.org/matrix/ if you want to take a look). I lurked on this thread because I was interested in other text-based Shadowrun options (from the perspective of: If there's already something better, why am I bothering?).
While it will never replace a full Shadowrun game (it's not meant to, and it's not a multiplayer environment by any means!), at least it won't abuse you.... It's also SR4-based, and meant for play at the gaming table or can be used online for remote player matrix activities (with some potential for AR activities as well...). It's hardly even alpha right now, but you can wander around and do some "stuff"....
If the MUDs were "all that" I wouldn't have a reason to work on this project....but apparently there's a deep, human, flaw... I don't know what crawled inside that drekhead that day, but you can't make up for not having a ("proper"?) life by trying to control the lives of others. It's a crying shame, because someone obviously put a lot of time and attention into creating the MUD, presumably so others could enjoy it -- and became tainted or jaded somewhere along the way. If I had been a newb in the channel and witnessed that, I wouldn't be coming back. And as someone who might have checked it out one day -- now I won't. Never been a MUDder, despite being online for some 27 years (one-line dial-up BBS days and 150-300 baud modems...) and that transcript just confirms my long-standing prejudices against them.