Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Keita on <12-04-11/1342:56>
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I've been looking for similar weapons to certain fictional ones...but I haven't been able to always match them up. So my question is...if you want to give a character an unconventional weapon, how do you go about rating it?
An example would be the Bat'leth. Looking at the thing and comparing it to other weapons, I noticed that griping a Bat'leth is very similar to weilding a staff. It's the same two-handed grip, so I assume using it would follow the same convensions as a staff. The difference comes in with the damage it inflicts. If you use a Bat'leth like a staff, you can stun like a staff, slice like a sword and stab like a spear. How would you go about rating a weapon like that?
Note that I'm no weapons expert. I like using unusual weapons for characters because there's always an interesting story behind it and makes for characterisation. :P
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I am no weapon expert and I do not know what a Bat'leth is. However I would recommand you to keep it simple. Remember that with a sword you can slice and stab. The rules does not reflect it and everybody is ok with that.
Therefore I would recommand a n exotic weapon skill and a single damagevalue. Or 1 physical and 1 stun damage value.
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Bat'Leth, (ex)fictional weapon designed by Dan Curry, Martial Arts Enthusiast and Effects Producer for Star Trek: The Next Generation.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QwmC3ewx5lo/TOXujg3YjdI/AAAAAAAAAo4/A7nuWZyiG1w/s1600/Bat%2527leth1.JPG)
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A Klingon stun someone? That is the act of a dishonorable coward! A TRUE warrior fightsto the death!
Kidding aside, I've never heard of them being used for nonlethal combat. I'd give it stats similar to a nodaichi, but with a bonus to blocking/parrying to make it worth being "exotic".
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Yeah, but sometimes you need Intel, and it's hard to question a corpse. You can always cut him loose and give him a knife to fight to the death afterwards.
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I'd say Str/2 +3, AP -1, Reach 1 personally, but I'm usually conservative when it comes to weapons. Maybe allow two weapon fighting maneuvers while using it? I'm not a trekkie so I really don't even see how its used without being extremely awkward. Generally if someone makes a thrusting point attack (with an axe or the ends of this thing) I treat it as knife damage with the weapon's normal reach and AP mod. As far as smacking someone with the flat (assuming that's what you mean by stun), I'd just use club damage. I always take the normal stat to be the most damaging way to use it.
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I'm not a trekkie so I really don't even see how its used without being extremely awkward.
Guard position is gripping the two outside grips in a cross-body position. The inner, bladed surface, of course, faces your opponent. To attack you can either thrust the bladed crescent at your opponent, jab with one of the tips (which is the closest you can come to "stabbing" with this weapon), or shift one of your hands to the center grip to get more reach and cutting power at the expense of defensive ability. One can also even move to the same grip as your other hand for a really all-out attack.
Basically, you fight with it more like a staff than a sword.
In my defense, I'd never seen Star Trek until recently, so I decided to watch all of it. Just finished DS9 recently, so its fresh in my mind.
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The dual-blades on each side are also useful for disarming more traditional weapons (Swords, staffs, etc.), just like a Sai or some types of Parrying Daggers ("Main Gauche") are used. (Of course, used properly, a Sai or a properly made Main Gauche can BREAK a sword.).
Used with both hands, it's used like a short staff, only sharp at both ends. With one hand, it's held alongside the arm (Like a "Reverse Hold" with a knife or sword, but it's intended specifically to be used that way) and used in a swinging pattern, or swung out with a flick of the wrist while moving the body to help with momentum, as well as able to be used to parry with the whole arm (Like a Tonfa).
I took martial arts (Although without weapons), and my GM back home was also taking martial arts, and was a big Trekkie.
I would certainly say it's an exotic weapon, however. And the options given for damage and reach are very applicable. Not so sure about the AP, but that would depend on the quality of the blade (Replica versus Weapon steel and skill of the craftsman. Just like a cheap knock-off Katana wouldn't have AP -1.).
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Mmm...thanks guys. :D I'm glad to see my instincts aren't entirely wrong.
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I'm not certain but I wouldn't give it penalties, even once you had the skill. There's a reason they create these things in fiction, and why they didn't evolve in Real Life.
Not that there aren't hook-ended swords with nasty crescent-shaped guards in RL ...
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4HsZA_T-CkSUFbdnavmj6hPWELyieIzOBcjppxJiCCq_7_hEf)
... it's just that they tend to be rare, and require a fair bit of training to use well. Besides, the Bat'leth is made for an openly-armed society in a selection-for-strength species. I'd put a strength minimum of 4 or 5 onto it ...
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Besides, the Bat'leth is made for an openly-armed society...
You mean like the UCAS/CAS? :P
I mean, hell, the number of elven adepts/cyberninjas walking around with Katana's sticking out of their longcoats like Blade... ;D
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One fun thing about Japan is that while most firearms are illegal, carrying swords is perfectly acceptable, and doesn't require any licensing.
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One fun thing about Japan is that while most firearms are illegal, carrying swords is perfectly acceptable, and doesn't require any licensing.
Sir Terry Pratchett could carry his knightly sword there! ;D
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One fun thing about Japan is that while most firearms are illegal, carrying swords is perfectly acceptable, and doesn't require any licensing.
Sir Terry Pratchett could carry his knightly sword there! ;D
You mean the one made of Thunderbolt Metal (aka meteoric iron)?
Just when I thought he couldn't get any more awesome, he goes and pulls a stunt like that. ;D
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One fun thing about Japan is that while most firearms are illegal, carrying swords is perfectly acceptable, and doesn't require any licensing.
Sir Terry Pratchett could carry his knightly sword there! ;D
You mean the one made of Thunderbolt Metal (aka meteoric iron)?
Just when I thought he couldn't get any more awesome, he goes and pulls a stunt like that. ;D
While suffering from a physical form of Autism! And is still writing! And has outright stated that the disease won't kill him, he'll KILL IT!
Honestly, the guy is toning himself *DOWN* to write Granny Weatherwax and Sir Sam Vimes in order to make them "Believable" as no one would think a person could be so full of awesome.
He's also had numerous letters from people with terminal illnesses hoping that Death is just like he wrote... He stared at the wall for some time after reading those. And now, he faces that question himself. :( All I can do is hope that he gets what he's created.
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He's also had numerous letters from people with terminal illnesses hoping that Death is just like he wrote... He stared at the wall for some time after reading those. And now, he faces that question himself. :( All I can do is hope that he gets what he's created.
Yeah. :'( He's been writing since before I was born, and I've been an avid fan of his since before I can remember... I'll even unabashedly admit that he's been a massive influence on my life. I even I collect turtle-themed stuff because it reminds me of Discworld and The Great A'Tuin.
It's hard to imagine a world without the constant anticipation of waiting for his next novel.
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Well, there's been heavy implications that he's going to pass it on to someone(s) else.
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One fun thing about Japan is that while most firearms are illegal, carrying swords is perfectly acceptable, and doesn't require any licensing.
In game or IRL, because there are laws in Japan about sword ownership licenses and carrying swords in public harking back from the Meiji era and occupation era Japan.
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In game. Melee weapons are easy to get, and most people have them, while guns are rarer, and harder to get.
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In game. Melee weapons are easy to get, and most people have them, while guns are rarer, and harder to get.
When you're a Troll, other people ARE melee weapons.
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In game. Melee weapons are easy to get, and most people have them, while guns are rarer, and harder to get.
When you're a Troll, other people ARE melee weapons.
In Trog Vladivostok, melee weapon is you!
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In game. Melee weapons are easy to get, and most people have them, while guns are rarer, and harder to get.
When you're a Troll, other people ARE melee weapons.
Troll Melee Aug-Adept:
Type O System
Strength 10
Suprathyroid Gland
Muscle Toner 4
Muscle Augmentation 4
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Improved Reflexes 2 (Geas: Only while wearing Weapon Focus)
Critical Strike 4 (+4 DV to Unarmed)
Penetrating Strike 3 (-3 AP to Unarmed)
Bone Density 4 (+3 DV to Unarmed, Unarmed is Physical)
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Hardliner Gloves (+1 DV to Unarmed, the aforementioned Weapon Foucus)
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Boxing 2 (+2 DV)
Karate 1 (+1 DV)
Kung Fu 1 (+1 DV)
Muay Thai 2 (+2 DV)
Tae Kwon Do 1 (+1 DV)
Wildcat 1 (+1 DV)
That's a theoretical maximum of 24P DV at -3 AP, with +1 Reach because you're a troll.
As a point of reference, the Aztechnology Itzcotal Gauss Cannon, which needs a battleship's power-plant to fire, only does 18P, AP -10.
EDIT: Fixed per my next post after this.
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But he's effectively wearing brass knuckles. Doesn't that violate his Geas?
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But he's effectively wearing brass knuckles. Doesn't that violate his Geas?
Hmmm, point, so change the Geas to requiring Hardliners, and make them a Weapon Focus. ;)
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Another nerf that hits it really hard is the Arsenal Errata for martial arts: The maximum cumulative DV modifier possible is +3.
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Another nerf that hits it really hard is the Arsenal Errata for martial arts: The maximum cumulative DV modifier possible is +3.
Errata, blah, it spoils all the fun.
Still, that's 19P DV -3 AP... -Half if you add Elemental Strike.
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So, yeah, necro-posting and double-posting all at once. Blah.
Still, I figured I'd rather hit this thread with a does of Adrenaline and the defibrillators rather than whip up a new one for essentially the same topic, stating fictional weapons.
This time: A Lightsaber!
(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs39/i/2008/335/d/6/LIGHT_Saber_by_Fraylen.jpg)
Now, I'm not talking about something utterly silly, but a more "realistic", if such a word could apply, version of a Plasma Sword that would be in keeping with the Shadowrun universe.
Initially I was thinking of just doing it as an Exotic Melee Weapon and, essentially, making it a cross of Monofilament Whip's fixed 8P damage and the -Half AP off all the laser weapons from Arsenal. Then I got thinking that (setting the New Trilogy *shudder* aside) they're pretty much only usable by Force Users, so I was thinking about maybe requiring them to be at least a Rank 1 Weapon Focus, with the price and availability included in the weapon, and that they can only be used by an individual with Magic 1 or greater, since the weapon requires a small amount of magic drawn from its wielder to form and shape the blade.
They'd probably also need something to better duplicate the way they go through walls, floors, blast doors, etc, with ease. Perhaps have them roll against "Armor" rather than "Armor x 2" when attacking barriers, like Indirect Combat Spells?
Any thoughts?
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You could make its Weapon Focus Force add to its AP, or require a magician or Adept to roll Astral Combat and add net hits to AP to simulate "force power", then save vs (armor/2) drain.
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Well, technically anyone could always use a lightsaber. The prequels didn't change that. However, the Jedi were the only ones who practiced swordplay in a world of laser guns. So it wasn't that anyone else was incapable, it is just that they were untrained.
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Some of the saber uses were definitely Force-based. I seem to recall Luke deflecting AT-AT turbolaser shots during the return of the emperor, while at one point Jacen Solo doubts his saber would stand up to IG-88s anti-personnel blasters.
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Well, technically anyone could always use a lightsaber. The prequels didn't change that. However, the Jedi were the only ones who practiced swordplay in a world of laser guns. So it wasn't that anyone else was incapable, it is just that they were untrained.
It's just really hard to do and you don't want to lose a limb.
They're great lockpicks if you're careful, however.
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Well, technically anyone could always use a lightsaber. The prequels didn't change that. However, the Jedi were the only ones who practiced swordplay in a world of laser guns. So it wasn't that anyone else was incapable, it is just that they were untrained.
It's just really hard to do and you don't want to lose a limb.
They're great lockpicks if you're careful, however.
Yes, well Jedi reflexes tend to help with that. Which is another reason most non-Jedi just used blasters.
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Yes, well Jedi reflexes tend to help with that. Which is another reason most non-Jedi just used blasters.
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”
One thing I also like about blasters over lightsabres, they have a Stun setting.
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A couple of things. One, the SR universe does not yet have plasma-based weapons of any sort; going there turns it into a very much nastier universe, where civilian casualties (as it were) are almost automatic as soon as they get broken out. However, the most likely scenario for their existence would be in the shape of a heavy shoulder-fired weapon, tripod-mounted weapon, or heavy vehicular gun -- very much like David Drake's description of them in the 'Fleet' books. (Read one of the short stories here at Amazon.com (http://books.google.com/books?id=OE828fPcy0EC&pg=PT51&lpg=PT51&dq=plasma+weapon+%22The+Fleet%22+david+drake&source=bl&ots=25MPUK1zFK&sig=AmWCVZEHarHf-hu3i0ErS93PTTY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jxYST6KxDMW2twfAisHjAQ&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false). Corporal Sienkiewicz carries one; she's a big damn ork-style girl.) Weapon like that is pure military bazooka -- and really, they have them in Shadowrun right now, they're just called 'Gauss Weapons'.
What you should be looking at is a way to make a monofilament whip into a monofilament 'rod' -- 1.5m of almost-unbending straight nigh-microscopic wire. They have this in the game 'Dark Conspiracy' -- a grip with a red ball on the tip so that you know Where The F**k your weapon is. What you want for Shadowrun is a discovery that stiffens short sections of monofilament wire. Perhaps a new method of creating wire which, when a low-level electrical charge is passed into it (or through it), the wire stiffens. Or -- even more possible -- you bond it to either side of a length of miniscule width and thickness clear (or slightly milky) memory plastic -- which DOES hold a shape when a charge is passed through it -- which 'withdraws' (is reeled) into the grip when the charge is removed. A simple low-level non-damaging laser is fired into the memory plastic, not only giving it some color, but also lighting up the length so that you know just exactly 'where' the weapon is.
Remember, look for ways the game already uses.
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Well, technically anyone could always use a lightsaber. The prequels didn't change that. However, the Jedi were the only ones who practiced swordplay in a world of laser guns. So it wasn't that anyone else was incapable, it is just that they were untrained.
Well, not quite the only ones, I believe there were some wealthy individuals with not Force Sensitivity that were skilled lightsaber duelists. Some even as good if not better than a Jedi.
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Well, not quite the only ones, I believe there were some wealthy individuals with not Force Sensitivity that were skilled lightsaber duelists. Some even as good if not better than a Jedi.
That's true, but only the intuition of the force let you move it in a way to deflect laser beams.
While others might be capable duelist they will fail instantly versus laser guns from distant.
Vice versa so in close combat and even good shots will fail instantly versus light sabers.
Only the combination Force+Lightsaber can excel in both situations.
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That's true, but only the intuition of the force let you move it in a way to deflect laser beams.
*facepalm*
Right, forgot all about that.
What do you think, Intuition + EMW(Lightsaber) to "parry" bullets, but only if the Saber is Bound to the wielder? Maybe with penalty against Narrow Bursts, since you have to move the Saber faster to get them all?
Also, of course, useless against explosives.
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What do you think, Intuition + EMW(Lightsaber) to "parry" bullets, but only if the Saber is Bound to the wielder? Maybe with penalty against Narrow Bursts, since you have to move the Saber faster to get them all?
Sounds good. We probably need a new adepts way: "Way of the Force" ;-)
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Bullet deflection is theoretically possible now, using a blade. Simply allow an adept with Missile Parry to deflect bullets with a sword.
Seriously, you guys are over-thinking this.
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Sounds good. We probably need a new adepts way: "Way of the Force" ;-)
The bonuses and Preferred Power list would probably have to be pretty diverse, all things considered... bits from The Warrior's Way and The Artist's Way perhaps?
Bullet deflection is theoretically possible now, using a blade. Simply allow an adept with Missile Parry to deflect bullets with a sword.
Oh come on; it's just for fun.
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A 'Jedi' by necessity would have to be a Mystic Adept. S/he could follow a Way, but the ideal mix would be Warrior's, Speaker's, and Athlete's Ways.
And why piddle around for fun when you can build something that actually works, and falls within -- or barely outside, at the most -- the game's rules already?? :D
Use the 'stiffened monowhip/memory plastic core' with the laser pointer in the hilt to help indicate where the blade is. Reach 1, inflicts monofilament whip damage, depending on the GM might use Blades, might require an exotic melee weapon skill. A critical glitch indicates chopping yourself up, and the wielder has to make a weapon skill roll when turning it off (though not on) in order to not accidentally slice himself during the dangerous moment when the memory plastic is going limp and is being wound in but is still outside the hilt.
Extend Missile Parry to deflecting bullets with a blade -- perhaps at a -2 or -4 to the pool. Figure out your Way of the Jedi, and voila' -- you have only two things that you actually have to get past the GM, i.e. the monofilament 'lightsaber' and the bullet-cutting.