Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: PapaR on <09-18-11/0142:10>

Title: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: PapaR on <09-18-11/0142:10>
What are some ways to hide larger weapons like an AR or a Sword? In either an open but disguised way or concealing it.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Medicineman on <09-18-11/0210:57>
Physical Mask Spell

Hough !
Medicineman
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-18-11/0240:23>
"OK, why did you let that guy pass through security with the Kalashnikov?"  "You only saw the ultrasound image.  It's actually a bottle of vodka in a designer bottle."  "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..."
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: PapaR on <09-18-11/0245:37>
How about using mundane means?
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-18-11/0253:32>
How about using mundane means?
Winchester M1887 in a box of roses?
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Joush on <09-18-11/0353:16>
The armor bag from AS? And you have armor too, so you can put on your sack and take out your gun.

A gym bag works, and you can try to smuggle large objects under a trench coat if you need to. Or you can barrow from Blood the last vampire, and carry a long art tube with a sword inside.

There are mods to make weapons use less metal too, those can help you get past MAD, and in a pinch there is always getting chameleon coating and hoping they don't see it.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-18-11/0356:31>
Get a "Panther Cozy" AKA:  Duffel Bag, and try to "Sneak" around with that.  :P
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: PapaR on <09-18-11/0505:25>
I was reading spy games, seems that you can disguise things at an extra cost in various ways, any ideas on what you would make a sword or an AR look like to be perceived as something else?
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-18-11/1150:42>
Gold plated Kalashnikov is a "Cultural And Ceremonial Weapon Of My People"?

Damn thing's been on a flag after all...
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: kirk on <09-18-11/1157:20>
I was reading spy games, seems that you can disguise things at an extra cost in various ways, any ideas on what you would make a sword or an AR look like to be perceived as something else?
The obvious examples for those two already exist: the gentleman's cane and the briefcase AR.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Red Canti on <09-18-11/1352:09>
(http://elderly.com/images/accessories/138N/VCSK4-4-4_front.jpg)
There's always the classic method.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-18-11/1747:01>
Or, for just a little less than an AR.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6Ya37qtJqsA/TBwPemYw4SI/AAAAAAAAACo/yT1Ry40OWDE/s400/mp5kcase.jpg)
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Deliverator on <09-18-11/1848:21>
Or you can stop trying to hide something that isn't really designed to be concealed or concealable. A full length Carbine/Assault rifle isn't supposed to be "hidden" ever... You want something that you can hide? Pick something smaller like a PDW instead of an assault rifle... Swords also don't hide well, I don't care what bowling for columbine says if you stick something the length of your leg down your pants and tried to walk, it would either print or you would look suspicious. Want to bring a giant knife? Think less Katana and more Wakizashi.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-18-11/1855:07>
Or go classic Cyberpunk and get yourself a nice switchblade or straight razor.

Hell, have a straight razor in a kit bag, and eyebrows won't even be raised.  Just toiletries after all.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Joush on <09-18-11/1913:10>
Though they won't generally let you though a MAD scanner with one. :)

You could break down a weapon into it's components and hide it inside a tool kit, though you'd need a pretty large toolkit for a full sized assault rifle and an alert person could still notice something like the barrel, magazine and furniture pretty easily. but many of other other components would take something like an armorer test to recognize as weapon components.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Crash_00 on <09-19-11/0050:48>
Slap Chameleon Coating on it and disguise it as air? As for MAD scanners, that's what the hacker is for.
"What do you mean I can't come in, its a plastic toy for the costume party on the fifth floor. Wouldn't your scanner be screaming if this were really a Panther Cannon?"

I'll have to agree though that you're better off just sticking with a smaller weapon.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-19-11/0101:54>
I hear Streetline Specials are popular this year, and are good accessories with your steampunk outfit!
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Socinus on <09-19-11/2240:44>
I had a character get four assault rifles past security by putting them inside a cake (no shit). The cake was decorated with metal designs and metal leaf to confuse the MAD scanners.

I've also dismantled weapons. Dismantling them makes them much easier to hide. Gun parts are also a lot easier to disguise as something OTHER than gun parts because people dont always recognize them AS gun parts. The biggest job I did was moving an entire case of guns and I just dismantled them. The triggers were the only parts that could be tagged immediately as being a part of a gun and for that I just lied and said they were mechanical parts. It worked well. You can move lots of weapons this way, especially if you mix the gun parts in with other junk metal and you pass the entire lot off as "scrap" or other misc machine parts.

Spare tires are another good place. Slash a tire open inside the tread and open it up. Smaller weapons can be hidden inside larger tires and larger weapons can be broken down and hidden inside. They're also great places to hide ammunition because you can hide A LOT of it in a single tire. Just be careful it doesnt rattle.

Hollowed out items are a good way to move smaller weapons.

You could also use machinery. Buy a generator or something similar and gut most of it, load in whatever you want and slap a BROKEN sticker on the machine. I've also had success with opaque liquids, barrels of oil or other chemicals that arent translucent in liquid form can hide LOTS of things wrapped in plastic at the bottom of the barrel and most people are not dedicated enough to stick their arm in a barrel of acid to see if that's really just acid in there.

Labeling something as "movie props" is another good way if you can swing it. That's harder to do and you need some entertainment industry knowledge to do it, but it's carte blanche to move even some seriously illegal stuff under the guise of the movies.

Hazardous material is also your friend. Crates labeled "radioactive waste" that also make geiger counters crackle tend to discourage thorough searches. Rotting meat or other food labeled "fertilizer" tends to get a quick pass.

Look up historical examples of how people smuggled weapons. There are some ingenious ways to get things around.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: KarmaInferno on <09-19-11/2254:28>
Eh, MAD scanners can be defeated pretty easily. A jammer can quickly reduce their detection dice down to where they can't make the threshold needed, especially if you use the anti-MAD shielding from Runner's Companion.

I've use the Chameleon Coating option before where it's likely I'm not gonna get examined too closely. Obviously that won't work if there a checkpoint where people are inspecting folks carefully, but like walking down streets in a crowd it usually suffices.


-k
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Reaver on <09-20-11/0006:36>
A sword could be hidden lots of ways..

Umbrella handle/cane shaft are two fashionable and plausable items.

Next is sporting eqiupment like Hockey sticks, baseball bats, and the like.


As for a full on Assault rifle?

Maybe a guitar case ( for that "El Maricachi" feel) or similiar item.

If you change out your AR for a carbine, you might get it down to a briefcase size (folding stock, no barrel mounts, short barrel mod), and still be rapidly deployable. Of course, an Assault Rifle is not meant to be hidden, it's all about that huge unstated statement: "I have an Assault rifle, what are you going to do about it?" 

If you are looking at trying to be sneaky, think SMG for a punch. Much easier to hide, burst fire, high ammo count...
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Kontact on <09-22-11/0317:27>
Easy breakdown is the best method for fooling cyberware scanners, but you've still got to slip the bullets past.  That's always been the hangup for me.

I guess a false-bottom attache with 2 pts of wifi-negation should keep all the bits and pieces off the radar.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Xzylvador on <09-22-11/0327:09>
Quote
I was reading spy games, seems that you can disguise things at an extra cost in various ways, any ideas on what you would make a sword or an AR look like to be perceived as something else?
In Arsenal there are rules for disguising equipment, cost there is x2 up to x6 for a -2 to a -6 perception modifier for the person checking your gear. Quite expensive if you ask me, but that combined with easy breakdown should manage to fool guards.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-22-11/1218:25>
Easy breakdown is the best method for fooling cyberware scanners, but you've still got to slip the bullets past.  That's always been the hangup for me.
Vaccu-sealed Foil.  Don't trust plastic, it's not a environmental barrier.  It'll work on the mid-level sniffers, but not the high end ones.

You know, the ones that are attached to the Cyberdogs with the Tungsten Teeth, Ceramic Bone Lacing, and Muscle Replacement?
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Kontact on <09-22-11/1228:24>
cyberware scanner still only needs 2 hits to identify any item.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: KarmaInferno on <09-22-11/1927:13>
Yeah, the major method to get past a cyberware scanner seems to be "don't get scanned".



-k
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-22-11/2026:32>
Bring the materials in a method that doesn't get a cyberware or MAD scanner.  As in, something in metal containers that comes in every day (Or at least every week) and only gets a cursory checkover.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Mason on <09-22-11/2044:00>
Kill the people who are doing the check in their homes beforehand, then go to where you wanted to go. They have to run out of personnel sometime....
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-22-11/2053:19>
Kill the people who are doing the check in their homes beforehand, then go to where you wanted to go. They have to run out of personnel sometime....
*Checks the colour of your mohawk*
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Mason on <09-22-11/2111:28>
Blood red.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-22-11/2154:11>
Faded a bit.  It's kind of light red right now.  ;D
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Mason on <09-22-11/2210:32>
I'm expecting Red Canti to post any minute now....
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: andrew_980 on <09-25-11/1313:52>
cyberware scanner still only needs 2 hits to identify any item.
In the database, they don't acknowlege what they don't know unless a human is watching it.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <09-27-11/0604:27>
Give up your bulky weapons immediately.  SMGs are for heavy street combat; leave your assault and battle rifles in the field where they belong.  Have your GM design an expensive but invisible to MADs heavy pistol with some serious punch to it.  Use a light pistol with KO chem rounds; leal isn't very expensive any more, and you get the added bonus of them not remembering what the hell happened.

If you can't smuggle the katana in -- viola or guitar case, sealed in a steel barrel of disgusting stinky lubricant, shipment of rebar, whatever -- then go with the wakizashi.  Avoid the MADs.  Purchase a ceramic blade.  Think outside the box, and start getting familiar with being there...
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Kontact on <09-27-11/0841:37>
cyberware scanner still only needs 2 hits to identify any item.
In the database, they don't acknowlege what they don't know unless a human is watching it.

I would expect bullets to be in their database.  That's the weak link I was thinking of.

But like I said, a lick of cheapo wifi-negating paint on on all of your mags will make them blocks of black to a millimeter wave radar scanner.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: kirk on <09-27-11/0910:37>
cyberware scanner still only needs 2 hits to identify any item.
In the database, they don't acknowlege what they don't know unless a human is watching it.

I would expect bullets to be in their database.  That's the weak link I was thinking of.

But like I said, a lick of cheapo wifi-negating paint on on all of your mags will make them blocks of black to a millimeter wave radar scanner.
Which, at least in most security systems I've dealt with, is an autocall for more thorough investigation. 

"Hey, Joe, the system says it can't tell what these are." "OK, then let them through." "huh?"
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: ARC on <09-27-11/1351:03>
This question just reminds me of when I was a kid and someone asked my mom how I could eat so much considering I was so skinny, she responded with a hollow leg and a flip top ankle.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Zilfer on <09-27-11/1833:11>
This question just reminds me of when I was a kid and someone asked my mom how I could eat so much considering I was so skinny, she responded with a hollow leg and a flip top ankle.

Same with my friend.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Barskor on <09-27-11/2201:30>
Go for level 3 Ceramic/Plasteel components then Chameleion Coating Easy Break Down with Folding stock all from Arsenal book
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Solomon on <09-27-11/2307:00>
Go for level 3 Ceramic/Plasteel components then Chameleion Coating Easy Break Down with Folding stock all from Arsenal book

Yeah the problem is then this gun is so freaking expensive with such huge availability you cant ever get rid of it in emergency it is too damned cool. You will never replace the value. If I am carrying a AR I want to know I can dump it someplace if I have too when the heat is on and walk away without the attention. No matter how much cermaic and chamaleon it has it will draw attention fully put together and in your hands.

Go for the executive protector SMG and MAD proof the briefcase, act like you are some kind of high end corporate courier. Much cheaper route. Skip the sword too, get a ceramic knife and chameleon coating on that is fairly cheap, tuck it in a concealed sheathe and now you have an extremely hard to find weapon on your person for melee.

In general big weapons seem cool because they have big numbers but with way too many jobs they also bring big risks. It is better to go for slightly smaller numbers that you know you can reliably carry around with you without drawing too much public attention. That has been my theory ever since we stopped all playing troll street sams in middle school and it has served me pretty well

No offense to troll street sams, but a whole party of them is pretty pointless and limited
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Barskor on <09-28-11/0028:45>
Go for level 3 Ceramic/Plasteel components then Chameleion Coating Easy Break Down with Folding stock all from Arsenal book

Yeah the problem is then this gun is so freaking expensive with such huge availability you cant ever get rid of it in emergency it is too damned cool. You will never replace the value. If I am carrying a AR I want to know I can dump it someplace if I have too when the heat is on and walk away without the attention. No matter how much cermaic and chamaleon it has it will draw attention fully put together and in your hands.

Go for the executive protector SMG and MAD proof the briefcase, act like you are some kind of high end corporate courier. Much cheaper route. Skip the sword too, get a ceramic knife and chameleon coating on that is fairly cheap, tuck it in a concealed sheathe and now you have an extremely hard to find weapon on your person for melee.

In general big weapons seem cool because they have big numbers but with way too many jobs they also bring big risks. It is better to go for slightly smaller numbers that you know you can reliably carry around with you without drawing too much public attention. That has been my theory ever since we stopped all playing troll street sams in middle school and it has served me pretty well

No offense to troll street sams, but a whole party of them is pretty pointless and limited
And sometimes you need to get your AR to the target and fill them with holes before worrying about dumping the AR
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <09-28-11/0700:21>
Go for level 3 Ceramic/Plasteel components then Chameleion Coating Easy Break Down with Folding stock all from Arsenal book

Which means, really, that it's going to be the size of an SMG and you'll have to assemble it.  And the guards still aren't going to let you walk through with it.  Modify your ammo, modify your weapon choice, or else you'll have to modify your approach so you can carry your uselessly large weapon.

In an urban situation, i.e. most running in Seattle, combat isn't going to happen very often outside of pistol ranges... unless you're specifically assassinating someone.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Solomon on <09-28-11/0826:26>
Go for level 3 Ceramic/Plasteel components then Chameleion Coating Easy Break Down with Folding stock all from Arsenal book

Yeah the problem is then this gun is so freaking expensive with such huge availability you cant ever get rid of it in emergency it is too damned cool. You will never replace the value. If I am carrying a AR I want to know I can dump it someplace if I have too when the heat is on and walk away without the attention. No matter how much cermaic and chamaleon it has it will draw attention fully put together and in your hands.

Go for the executive protector SMG and MAD proof the briefcase, act like you are some kind of high end corporate courier. Much cheaper route. Skip the sword too, get a ceramic knife and chameleon coating on that is fairly cheap, tuck it in a concealed sheathe and now you have an extremely hard to find weapon on your person for melee.

In general big weapons seem cool because they have big numbers but with way too many jobs they also bring big risks. It is better to go for slightly smaller numbers that you know you can reliably carry around with you without drawing too much public attention. That has been my theory ever since we stopped all playing troll street sams in middle school and it has served me pretty well

No offense to troll street sams, but a whole party of them is pretty pointless and limited
And sometimes you need to get your AR to the target and fill them with holes before worrying about dumping the AR

You cant get paid for a job if you die during the get away. I cant think of any situation where a SMG wont accomplish what an AR can accomplish and do it with a bit less attention. I also agree with  this idea

Go for level 3 Ceramic/Plasteel components then Chameleion Coating Easy Break Down with Folding stock all from Arsenal book

Which means, really, that it's going to be the size of an SMG and you'll have to assemble it.  And the guards still aren't going to let you walk through with it.  Modify your ammo, modify your weapon choice, or else you'll have to modify your approach so you can carry your uselessly large weapon.

In an urban situation, i.e. most running in Seattle, combat isn't going to happen very often outside of pistol ranges... unless you're specifically assassinating someone.

It always makes sense to avoid extra attention when you can. Got to love the fact that concealed carry licenses and pistols makes it easy to just walk away from the scene and explain why you have a pistol later.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Barskor on <09-28-11/1038:51>
And tazers you can just cut thier throut with a ceramic blade after they go down.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-28-11/1139:59>
And tazers you can just cut thier throut with a ceramic blade after they go down.
Buy them drinks.  Buy them many, many drinks.  "I'm taking my good buddy here home now, he's had too much."  Spoof datatrail of vehicle.  Drop the drunk off in nearest ghoul pit.
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Barskor on <09-28-11/1206:36>
And tazers you can just cut thier throut with a ceramic blade after they go down.
Buy them drinks.  Buy them many, many drinks.  "I'm taking my good buddy here home now, he's had too much."  Spoof datatrail of vehicle.  Drop the drunk off in nearest ghoul pit.
And get paid by the ghouls ta boot!
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: CanRay on <09-28-11/1211:51>
Yep.  And after you strip off the nanopaste/latex mask disguise, no one is the wiser.  Hell, go as the opposite sex (If you can pull it off) and they'll never be able to figure out who the hell you are.

That's why you don't mess with a properly designed Face character.  Honestly, is (s)he really who they appear to be?  Is there actually ANYONE in there?
Title: Re: Hiding Larger Weapons
Post by: Xzylvador on <09-28-11/1857:35>
And tazers you can just cut thier throut with a ceramic blade after they go down.
Buy them drinks.  Buy them many, many drinks.  "I'm taking my good buddy here home now, he's had too much."  Spoof datatrail of vehicle.  Drop the drunk off in nearest ghoul pit.
Which raises the question: How many drunks does a ghoul need to eat to be intoxicated itself?

Wait, sorry! I meant him or herself. I love ghouls, I swear! Some of my bes... LET GO OF MY ARM!!!