Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Shadowjack on <08-07-11/1909:37>
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I read that all heavy weapons suffer double uncompensated recoil. However, I can't find any details on recoil for SS or SA weapons. The Panther assault cannon says it has "tremendous" recoil. How can I find out the recoil for assault cannons that fire in these modes?
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"Tremendous" means "Comically low." They work just like any other SS or SA weapons; no recoil on the first shot, -1 on the second shot.
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...but, seeing as they're Single Shot (SS) weapons, there is no second shot in the phase, as such there are no penalties.
Just for reference, the recoil issue on Assault Cannons is a fluff description. It has no bearing in game unless you modify the Firing selection (via Arsenal mods) to SA, BF or FA. Until then, it's a moot point.
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There is a -1 recoil penalty to your second shot on SA weapons. In the case of the assailt cannons on SA, it is doubled if it is uncompensated, as with all heavy weapons. In the case of SS weapons, there is no recoil mod since it can't fire a second time. Where the Panther is concerned (I think that's the cannon that is SS, but they mention recoil), I assume the manufacturers made it single shot for safety reasons and to allow the weapon to cool/relax/line up the next shot.
In Arsenal, there are rules for extra recoil from heavy weapons. Honestly, I would apply those ones to the Assault cannons, but that is just me. I'm an oddball like that. IIRC, the recoil is translated to 1/2 of the weapons power in stun damage.
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Well that was the most misleading text ever lol. Thanks guys :)
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I think it's mostly there to remind people that this IS A FRAGGIN' CANNON!
Strength 1, Body 1 characters will fire it off, and be found embedded into the wall behind them afterwards. :P
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Strength 1, Body 1 characters will fire it off, and be found embedded into the wall behind them afterwards. :P
Noisy Cricket anyone?
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You got it. And Jay was not a small man, either.
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This is another case of Copy Pasta from SR3 . .
In SR3, if you lacked enough Strength/Body/Recoil-Compensation, you got 9 light stun, which you resisted as if somebody with STR9 had punched you.
Meaning using body only after substracting impact armor from the 9.
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So, is there anything in RAW about a SS Panther Assault Cannon having anything for recoil? What is to keep a stickly elf from picking up the cannon, and firing off a shot? Other than common sense, and the actual weight of the gun.
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The owner of the gun having a differing opinion to said elf?
In other words, nothing stops them at all.
Even a pixie could fire it off, unless I missing some pixie rule.
*contemplates Pixie with BF modified PAC, with custom grip, electronic firing, and gas vent.
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As per the RULES?
Totally Viable . .
Silly. But nowhere nearly as awesome as a Troll firing TWO PAC's with one in each hand . .
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on a barely related note, anyone else notice that from Street Sam Catalog to current rules, the PAC has lost 7 rounds of ammo per clip and gained RFID? remember tags within explosives have a minor percentage chance of survival (among thousands of non-RFID microtags, proven by current RL C4)
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As per the RULES?
Totally Viable . .
Silly. But nowhere nearly as awesome as a Troll firing TWO PAC's with one in each hand . .
How about having a Panther Assault Cannon with an Underbelly Panther Assault Cannon, and you have the world's most dangerous Over-Under "Shotgun"?
Perfect for the Redneck Troll from the CAS!
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As per the RULES?
Totally Viable . .
Silly. But nowhere nearly as awesome as a Troll firing TWO PAC's with one in each hand . .
How about having a Panther Assault Cannon with an Underbelly Panther Assault Cannon, and you have the world's most dangerous Over-Under "Shotgun"?
Perfect for the Redneck Troll from the CAS!
Hacker: What.... The hell... Is that?
Redneck Troll: I's mah shotgun. Good fer varmint huntin'.
Hacker: What the hell kind of varmints need that much firepower?
Redneck Troll: Elefunt migh' 'scape from da' zoo unce ina while....
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+1 to you,
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As per the RULES?
Totally Viable . .
Silly. But nowhere nearly as awesome as a Troll firing TWO PAC's with one in each hand . .
How about having a Panther Assault Cannon with an Underbelly Panther Assault Cannon, and you have the world's most dangerous Over-Under "Shotgun"?
Perfect for the Redneck Troll from the CAS!
Dude, don't go giving me such ideas . . My GMs(yes, plural, i have 2 of them) hate my combat monsters enough allready ^^
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How would that Panther Cozy look like?
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Redneck Troll: Dem guud eatin'. Feed fambly a' fur.
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I am now working on a Redneck Troll from the Deep CAS for my next character. Muahahaha!!!! His little brother back home plays a mean banjo...
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Don't forget the spittoon with a welded on handle for his spittin' cup. :P
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You've also got to get him a slingblade. Uh huh.
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What would a troll-sized Banjo be?
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Oh $Deity, my brain!!! The kid from Deliverance as a Troll!
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He got a real pretty mouth ain't he?
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A cello?
We already have Bubba a Deliverance troll shouldn't be too much of a stretch.
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Bubba The Love Troll (http://squinkyproductions.deviantart.com/gallery/27800966)'s Redneck brother, Bubba-Joe-Bob?
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Or Darryl and his brother Darryl and his other brother Darryl.
"A group of them! It's the end of times!"
What would a group of redneck trolls be called anyway?
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Brother/Father/Son/Uncle/Nephew. Probably more than two at once too . .
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His name is Odysseus (his momma was one a them Readers...), but he prefers to go by Odd. He can at least spell that. And no, his little brother ain't no albino cripple gigglin' and playing the banjo, he just happens to be good with music. Got that from momma. Odd got his daddy's size and temperament. And he had his brother stitch together a couple of assault cannons for him, smartlinked both of them together, and wired the triggers together when they got made triggerless. Means he only has to think (REALLY HARD) at his guns to get 'em to fire. One at a time, or double-barreled goodness. Firing both barrels at a gov'rnment varmint usually hurts like hell though, even for him...
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"Ah winged da Census Mahn!" "That's a good boy."
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"Winging" a census man with two barrels of an over under assault cannon would likely reduce said government employee to fine red mist....
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I love how we've gone from Assault Cannon Recoil to Rednecks with Double-Barreled Assault Cannons.
And it's all my fault. ;D
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*shrugs* The question was answered, all following question seem to have been resolved. So, now, it's time to have fun with ideas formed from those answers. And if Redneck Trolls with Double-Barreled Assault Cannons is where that leads, I'm all for it. Best to have fun with these topics, as the topics are related to a game, which is in turn, played for fun.
Anyway... If we're gonna go hog wild with this, let me just wind it up to where it's gonna go. Multiple barrels of PAC fun, rotating.... Yeah, you KNOW what I'm talking about... PAC gatling action. Let's calculate some recoil on that horrible horrible idea...
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Same as with the Vindicator Minigun.
+1 for each consecutive shot. Uncompensated Recoil gets doubled.
And probably fixed fire rate of 10 shots per salvo.
And the damage only goes up one per shot fired too, so very big loss.
Firing 2 of them akimbo means you get a -1 die to shooting the 2nd one.
No smart-Link or Laser-Pointer bonus. but TWICE the single shot damage.
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*shrugs* The question was answered, all following question seem to have been resolved. So, now, it's time to have fun with ideas formed from those answers. And if Redneck Trolls with Double-Barreled Assault Cannons is where that leads, I'm all for it. Best to have fun with these topics, as the topics are related to a game, which is in turn, played for fun.
Anyway... If we're gonna go hog wild with this, let me just wind it up to where it's gonna go. Multiple barrels of PAC fun, rotating.... Yeah, you KNOW what I'm talking about... PAC gatling action. Let's calculate some recoil on that horrible horrible idea...
I swore up and down that i had seen this in the books before, but what i saw was the victory autocannon, which is more like a MK-19 Grenade Launcher than a GAU-8 from the A-10 Thunderbolt II. the victory and it's slightly smaller brother vigilant are very commonly (though not RAW) written as rotary autocannons, and thus have no spin. dammit.
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I don't care how big the Troll is, or how sawed-off the barrels are, there's no way in hell they're carrying a GAU-8!
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yeah, that'd be a troll team carry, but they'd have to put it down to fire,,
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Great, now we know what a Troll Heavy Machine Gun Crew carries instead of a Ma Deuce.
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the tripod is made of the burnt out husk of an APC,
thinking about it though, that would be mounted on a tracked tank probably with a trailer for ammo and battery power
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Actually, now that I think about it, there's probably a specific T-Bird design for CAS that uses something similar to the GAU-8. It would work better as a design than a Fixed Wing or a Helicopter, wouldn't it?
Air Force folks sound off?
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well, if it hovers in the air and fires, it goes backwards at considerable speeds . .
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considering the GAU-8 stops the A-10 warthog in mid-dive on too long of a trigger pull, not good for helos, and thats just firing bullets not assault cannon ammo
a rotary assault cannon would have to be on a tank larger than an M1A(x) Abrams for stability during cannon power up and to have any decent ammo capacity.
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No, it won't stop the A-10 -- urban legend. The recoil force of the GAU-8 is vicinity 45 kN (kilo-Newtons). The A-10 has two engines, each of which can generate a bit over 40 kN.
There's a definite slow-down, one you can see if you're lucky enough to be watching (while not a target) but it won't stop the aircraft.
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Dude, that cannon has more recoil than a jet engine . . THAT'S MASSIVE!
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His name is Odysseus (his momma was one a them Readers...), but he prefers to go by Odd.
His momma was a psychic!? :P
Best name I've seen in ages...bravo.
@CanRay : "We got ourselves a whole gopher village!"
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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No, it won't stop the A-10 -- urban legend. The recoil force of the GAU-8 is vicinity 45 kN (kilo-Newtons). The A-10 has two engines, each of which can generate a bit over 40 kN.
There's a definite slow-down, one you can see if you're lucky enough to be watching (while not a target) but it won't stop the aircraft.
My understanding was that it could drag it to a stall speed though (if flying level)... I recall a pilot article saying that amongst other things, he had to jink the nose up when firing because the slowing speed dramatically affected his aim, and it was also why most PR videos showing the gun in use were of planes in a steeper dive than normal ;)
And anyways, even just slowing down while shooting at tanks is bad for your health ;)
The A-10 Wart-hog is ma' favourite plane of all time.
Of.All.Time.
With SR4 though, I believe the GAU-8 is the equivalent of the Vehicle-mounted Vigilant Autocannon.... Let's face it, the shells fired by the GAU-8 are probably the equivalent of an Assault Cannon round....
Let's look at the shells:
(http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/9601/munitionsweb.jpg)
30mm is the one on the Extreme right....... bad, bad day for anybody.
2nd from the right is the 20mm
3rd from the right is (I think) a .50cal
Or just for effect:
(http://www.securityarms.com/photos/1271791472.jpg)
Let's look at the gun:
(http://30.media.tumblr.com/NAJN8JTZ6jmgrwaf03zgh7EFo1_500.jpg)
Seems pretty clear that:
A) Even a sawn-off version is never going to be man-portable ;)
B) It's never explicitly stated what Caliber an Assault cannon round is, but the 30mm should be sufficient to obliterate most small vehicles...
C) The FA version will (as it does today) kiss goodbye to most tanks.....
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yes the GAU-8 is the baddest of flight weapons,,
though i disagree on the GAU and the vigilant being equivalent, the GAU fires WAY better, and fires faster, while the vigilant seems to fire about the same speed as the MK-19.
to be truly fair, the rounds maybe the same size, only difference being GAU rounds are DPU and doesn't fire chucks of plastic explosive, and PAC ammo is a "stable superplast explosive warhead" (SSC 60, 64) (basically a small artillery round) which seems to be a follow-on of the HESH/HEP "squash-head" explosive rounds from WW2 to the 80's-ish. not very effective against newer vehicle armors.
and finally, the Vindicator, Vengeance and Vanquisher each mention a 1 combat turn spool up time for the rotary barrels, and fire a fix rate of 15 rounds per combat turn. the Vigilant and Victory do not mention spool up time, have a min burst of 6 and max burst 12 rounds. RBB3 pg 89 and 91
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I've always figured that the Assault Cannon is between 20mm-30mm. And available in different calibers, in order to confuse things and prevent the enemy from using your own ammunition against you.
I figured we've gone back to "The Bad Old Days" when every country had it's own calibers. And possibly every company has their own as well, which are incompatible with other companies as well.
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yes the GAU-8 is the baddest of flight weapons,,
though i disagree on the GAU and the vigilant being equivalent, the GAU fires WAY better, and fires faster, while the vigilant seems to fire about the same speed as the MK-19.
*Snip*
and finally, the Vindicator, Vengeance and Vanquisher each mention a 1 combat turn spool up time for the rotary barrels, and fire a fix rate of 15 rounds per combat turn. the Vigilant and Victory do not mention spool up time, have a min burst of 6 and max burst 12 rounds. RBB3 pg 89 and 91
The Vanguisher Heavy Autocannon then :)
And the Vanquisher just says that it uses Minigun rules (Arsenal P.30) with Full-Auto Bursts (SR4A p.154)
These advise that the weapon fires 15 bullets per Initiative pass (not combat turn)
So (again, due to the weird nature of SR4 mechanics on bullets-per-second) the firing rate is between 5-15 bullets/sec (15-75 per Turn depending on 1-5 IP's).
The GAU has two speed settings, 2100 rounds per minute (rpm) in the low setting, or 4200 rpm (which are 35-70 bullets/sec respectively), so is significantly better than the Vanquisher... but who in SR4 can afford that much ammo anyway? ;)
And yes, the Minigun Combat turn wind-up speed is always an issue...still, it's pretty hard to hear that sound from 2,400m+ away as you prepare for your strafing run :P
Edit: Running the numbers, the Vanquisher with 11P damage (-6AP) can shred anything with a hardened Armour rating of 18 or less without any effort (1 net success)... That armour rating includes any air-vehicle short of a Sub-orbital shuttle, and any Ground vehicles up to Light Tank...
Note: the body/soak becomes very irrelevant very quickly with FA of 15 bullets... it's just cutting through the Hardened Armour which is the problem...
Add in a few successes and larger vehicles will likewise go bye-bye, as will most corvette-class boats....
But anything with high-20's in the armour (Stonewalls etc) normally require an Anti-Tank missile anyway (eg Tthe Esprit Poignard from MilSpec).
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Who can afford that much ammo?
Ares Macrotechnology.
Lofwyr when he's bored of using his fire breath.
Aztechnology as they strafe Bogota for the third time that day.
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to be fair, i was quoting RBB3 for the weapon speeds.
though 15 per IP makes it a massively variable weapon entirely dependent on the characters speed. i guess the devs just say it fires 15 rounds per trigger pull.
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to be fair, i was quoting RBB3 for the weapon speeds.
though 15 per IP makes it a massively variable weapon entirely dependent on the characters speed. i guess the devs just say it fires 15 rounds per trigger pull.
Pretty much.
All SR4 Weapons are like that though.... and FA shotgun has the same rate-of-fire as an LMG.
IRL you just know that ain't right :) but it makes the mechanics simple, so I'm cool with it :)
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to be fair, i was quoting RBB3 for the weapon speeds.
though 15 per IP makes it a massively variable weapon entirely dependent on the characters speed. i guess the devs just say it fires 15 rounds per trigger pull.
Pretty much.
All SR4 Weapons are like that though.... and FA shotgun has the same rate-of-fire as an LMG.
IRL you just know that ain't right :) but it makes the mechanics simple, so I'm cool with it :)
dear god, gotta say i'm glad they didn't give it the minigun rate
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Don't get me started on gun nuttery.
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Don't get me started on gun nuttery.
you have 45sec,,,
AND GO!!
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On a related note, has anyone actually heard a minigun spin up in person? I imagine anyone that was on a run that heard that sound behind them would be too busy crapping themselves to move....
Also, I have always had a twisted Shadowrun dream of "weaponizing" the Phalanx Defense System the US Navy uses.
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that seems a bit like "weaponizing" weapons grade anthrax,
i could see one on a citymaster though,,,,,
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Reprogram it from putting up a wall of bullets to intercept an incoming missle to putting up a wall of bullets to intercept an incoming person....
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On a related note, has anyone actually heard a minigun spin up in person? I imagine anyone that was on a run that heard that sound behind them would be too busy crapping themselves to move....
Have only heard it on Youtube videos...
I did have one Shadowrun team absolutely crap themselves while hijacking a train carriage (was very old western-cross-Firefly)
While walking on the roof (with magnetically-assisted footwear), the point-man sees a weapons turret pop up close-enough to hear the humming of an electric motor building speed, and the multi-barrel turret started swiveling in his direction....
From memory, he notified everyone accordingly and proceeded to jump off the train (via parachute and some excellent rolls) and caught up with the team later....
Good days :D
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Also, I have always had a twisted Shadowrun dream of "weaponizing" the Phalanx Defense System the US Navy uses.
There's a trailer-mounted version (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS#Centurion_C-RAM).
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think i'll take the phalanx and the searam and mount them both on a super sized cigarette boat,,,,,,,,,,
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and i really could see using a GAU as the missing rotary assault cannon, basically just needs the right caliber ammo, mount it on a super size tank, send it to desert wars, oh wait, rad wars,,
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and i really could see using a GAU as the missing rotary assault cannon, basically just needs the right caliber ammo, mount it on a super size tank, send it to desert wars, oh wait, rad wars,,
I'm surprised this hasn't been done already IRL ;)
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probably tried, but failed from the spin of the barrels countering any attempt to turn the turret, and elevating it would suck,
and i don't think the m1 family of tanks is quite large enough
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SheVa Tank (http://i53.tinypic.com/2usfse0.jpg) anyone?
As for tank size for IRL, perhaps they can resurrect the old Panzer VIII "Maus" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_VIII_Maus)?
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SheVa Tank (http://i53.tinypic.com/2usfse0.jpg) anyone?
As for tank size for IRL, perhaps they can resurrect the old Panzer VIII "Maus" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_VIII_Maus)?
The BEST part about that pic is the Bun-Bun icon.
+1 to you sir ;)
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John Ringo novels are my guilty pleasure. But the SheVa tank may be made of many different alloys, but it's main component is PURE AWESOME!
The Bun-Bun SheVa, BTW, was used in ways that the vehicle was never designed for (Danger Close shooting from it's own warheads, and Mountain Warfare!), and survived far more than it's designer thought it ever would. Although he had to check his notes on that one.
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SheVa Tank (http://i53.tinypic.com/2usfse0.jpg) anyone?
As for tank size for IRL, perhaps they can resurrect the old Panzer VIII "Maus" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_VIII_Maus)?
i doubt that, Maus was one of the least succesful tank designs of WWII, though if one wants to go all out the Landkreuzer P. 1500 Monster could be used. Was supposed to wield an 800 mm cannon. with that thing you wouldn't need any rotary ;D
or use several mounted GAUs
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Well, when you only have two manufactured, it's kind of hard to gauge how well they'd have worked. :P
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Also, I have always had a twisted Shadowrun dream of "weaponizing" the Phalanx Defense System the US Navy uses.
Our Rigger is an Aztecnology Air-Defense AI that went rogue.
It has a weaponized Phalanx system mounted on one of our vehicles.
Sick bastrd uses it on people. Never trust an AI.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Those weren't people, they were targets. Not the AI's fault if it's sensors couldn't tell the difference.
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he was aining at their gear, not them. never mind that they were wearing it still.
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Well, when you only have two manufactured, it's kind of hard to gauge how well they'd have worked. :P
actually not. this tank missed one of the most crucial qualities to be just remotly useful. it barely moved. It was so slow a running man could overtake it.
a tank that has no speed and maneuverability is useless.
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Might be useful as a pillbox that can move. A bit. :P
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Might be useful as a pillbox that can move. A bit. :P
A mobile bunker has it's uses :)
Maybe paint it with anti-enemy slogans and make the enemy wast bullets targetting it as a decoy paraded along the battlefield?
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A mobile bunker has it's uses :)
Maybe paint it with anti-enemy slogans and make the enemy wast bullets targetting it as a decoy paraded along the battlefield?
*Cough* (http://youtu.be/gPKSw1OeK2w)
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Quick point of interest regarding the minigun and other rotary, multi-barrelled weapons: There is no lag time to spinning up the barrels. That is entirely a game balance conceit from video games. In reality, once the firing trigger is depressed, the weapon is firing. Each barrel is in various states of loading and unloading, with one barrel containing a live round with the mechanism ready to fire.
I've removed the so called "spin up time" from my games, because it is completely silly. No one would engineer a weapon that way, in the first place, and IRL no one has.
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Even hand-crank Gatling Weapons worked that way, IIRC.
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Quick point of interest regarding the minigun and other rotary, multi-barrelled weapons: There is no lag time to spinning up the barrels. That is entirely a game balance conceit from video games. In reality, once the firing trigger is depressed, the weapon is firing. Each barrel is in various states of loading and unloading, with one barrel containing a live round with the mechanism ready to fire.
I've removed the so called "spin up time" from my games, because it is completely silly. No one would engineer a weapon that way, in the first place, and IRL no one has.
Hey, I'm with you. I just use it cause it's RAW :)
I never understood how the ammo would start feeding into a 300'ish revolutions-per-minute if it wasn't already chambered.... ;)
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yes the GAU-8 is the baddest of flight weapons
you do know that there's one plane that actually mounts a 120mm artillery cannon in the side, right?
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yes the GAU-8 is the baddest of flight weapons
you do know that there's one plane that actually mounts a 120mm artillery cannon in the side, right?
Yep. And the GAU-12 -- which though smaller and with less recoil puts MORE lead downrange. Not quite as good on tanks, but on everything else it's better.
Trolls take the 8, Ogres grab the 12, I guess.
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When someone in the US Military is asking "Spooky" for some air support, you know drek is going down.
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Actually had a game where our runners intercepted a transmission from the op-force. It was just two little words:
BROKEN ARROW!
My character never ran so hard in his life.
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I was late to the party but I see kirk has already brought up the GAU-12.
The AC-130 is completely bad ass.
To think I almost applied to be a 'sensor operator' on one of those. Oh well, I didn't stay in so wouldn't have happened. OTOH, I'd be nearly retired already :(
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Actually had a game where our runners intercepted a transmission from the op-force. It was just two little words:
BROKEN ARROW!
My character never ran so hard in his life.
FYI, broken arrow refers to an accident (aka not an intentional launch/detonation) involving a nuclear weapon. :)
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Not really.
Back in the day it referred to an American military unit that was about to be overrun. It authorized and called for every airborne military asset in the area to attack that position. Watch the Mel Gibson movie "We Were Soldiers" to see it in action.
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In Vietnam, yes.
In the Air Force dealing with nukes, it referred to an accident. I have no doubt in different services or even commands it means different things.
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We were dealing with ground units, not missile silos. If your shadowrunning team is infiltrating a missile silo, then both versions may be appropriate.
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Looked like we were talking about the Warthog and then the AC-130 to me :)
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What do you think gets scrambled your your area RDQ when "BROKEN ARROW" gets called out?
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I don't know what's scarier, losing nuclear weapons, or that it happens so often there's actually a term for it.
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'Empty Quiver' I think would be scarier in the long term that's for sure.
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and i really could see using a GAU as the missing rotary assault cannon, basically just needs the right caliber ammo, mount it on a super size tank, send it to desert wars, oh wait, rad wars,,
I'm surprised this hasn't been done already IRL ;)
Vulcan Air Defense system came close. Pretty sure its obsolete.
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Empty Quiver, Broken Arrow, etc are DOD wide terms. NUCFLASH would be the worst case scenario. I aboslutely hated Nuclear Security.
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What do you think gets scrambled your your area RDQ when "BROKEN ARROW" gets called out?
Personally, I think it means A.every piece of artillery and air support within strike distance reguardless of previous tasking, is about to blow the ever loving f***s**t out of where I am. B. It's gonna be a really good day. :D
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A really good day for the person calling it in.
A less good day for other people that need that same support.
A REALLY bad day for the people being targeted.
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A really good day for the person calling it in.
A less good day for other people that need that same support.
A REALLY bad day for the people being targeted.
I'll agree to the first and last assertions, but everything is a matter of perception brother.
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Try nuclear drills on an aircraft carrier, chummer. Just knowing that the drills are just a bit of make work because if the nuclear power plants go thermal, you can't swim or paddle away FAST enough to keep from at least getting steamed to death by all the water boiling around you...
Fun thought that. So I tend to squash anyone suggesting we tinker with any in-game nuclear plants.... Or nuclear weapons...
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Moral of the story? Don't play with these (http://www.humansoul.com/Nuclear%20explosion.jpg) they don't use kid gloves.
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worse yet are things like the davey crockett launching system, short range with slightly larger range devastation. unless you launched it from a cliff above and away from the target, you got well cooked also. the system was dead simple and ultimately crap.
i mention it to players when they are about to do/release something nasty they prolly won't survive.
<singing> davey, davey crockett, king of the burning frontier. </singing>
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I GMed Paranoia. They had Tac-Nuke Hand Grenades.
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Someone once thought it was a good idea to put a nuke warhead on a torpedo. The sub that launched it couldn't get away from the shockwave from an underwater detonation fast enough.
Genius.
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Yeah, well, it typically happens: "We have a new toy! LET'S PLAY WITH IT!!!"
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I GMed Paranoia. They had Tac-Nuke Hand Grenades.
they also had 5 clones in the fridge,,,,,,,,,,,
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I GMed Paranoia. They had Tac-Nuke Hand Grenades.
they also had 5 clones in the fridge,,,,,,,,,,,
I used to demo it officially. At more than one convention, I got a group of people for the second or third session who showed up solely because they heard about the "Multiple Clones" thing and "The dude brings you back into the game in the more interesting ways possible! It's totally worth DYING in the game!"
It's a pity I lost the notebook that had all the techniques I used... Oh well.
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Bah, just chug some Rad-X and you'll be fine.
-k
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Now I want to run a Fallout game using the Shadowrun system.
They even have cybernetics and very rare psionics! The Forecaster is the most hilarious, and creepy in a non-violent way, psychic I've seen in awhile.
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lol, where won't this thread go?
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And in that Fallout Game, I'll set up a Pimping Campaign that's even more sickening and disgustingly decadent than the one in Fallout: New Vegas!
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As long as your Fallout campaign has a double barreled assault cannon, and/or a redneck troll...
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As long as your Fallout campaign has a double barreled assault cannon, and/or a redneck troll...
Mercy: Grenade Machinegun..... fun fun fun for the whole family....
That or a nice little Euclid/Helios Charge... Orbital bombardment.... is there anything it can't do?
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As long as your Fallout campaign has a double barreled assault cannon, and/or a redneck troll...
Super Mutant with a Double-Barrelled Gauss Rifle or Holo-Rifle, for that classic Pump-Action Goodness!
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I'm still trying to figure out a Pump-Action ENERGY WEAPON!
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Mebbe it needs to charge a energy chamber between shots, and the pump action does that.
-k
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Actually, a Microfusion Cell pops out with every pump, and you reload them one-at-a-time like they're shotgun shells too. While it only uses one shot, it makes me think, metagaming style, that it's probably the most inefficient use of the energy possible. You could get 24-shots out of a Laser Rifle for the same cell, or 12-shots from a Plasma Rifle.
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Why bother with cells? Instead why not make the pump charge a dynamo that creates the charge for the weapon? Add an extra friction energy absorption surface along the pump action's rails so that it helps contribute to the energy level no matter which way it's going. You'll never run out of ammo, as long as you have the energy to pump it.
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so you fap several minutes for one moneyshot?
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*Pumps the Holo-Rifle 50,000 times to get enough charge, fires once, pulls trigger again to get a "Not Enough Ammo" buzz, screams and runs away, pumping again*
Microfusion Cells carry a lot of power. :P
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*Pumps the Holo-Rifle 50,000 times to get enough charge, fires once, pulls trigger again to get a "Not Enough Ammo" buzz, screams and runs away, pumping again*
Microfusion Cells carry a lot of power. :P
doesn't seem like it if 1 cell = 1 shot. :P
so you fap several minutes for one moneyshot?
Not exactly what i was going for. more like a shotgun, one pump =1 shot. ::)
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Yeah, with a SHOTGUN . . but not if you need to create energy . .
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Yeah, with a SHOTGUN . . but not if you need to create energy . .
I guess I didn't convey what I meant very well, I'm figuring if you've got the technology to build compact man portable energy weapons, you've also got the technology to make what seems like a simple action (pumping a shotgun) turn into a huge amount of power. Don't ask me how that's supposed to work, I'm not an engineer and couldn't explain the technical stuff if I had the math in front of me. But with the things i've heard about conservation of energy and the ways it can be gathered in strange and subtle ways, I figure that it's a totally possible concept.
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If they had that kind of technology, there wouldn't be a war on for Hoover Damn or Helios-One. Dynamo everything electrical in nature.
As I'm rather insane in my preparation for emergency situations (I used to live on a fault line, now I live on a flood plane in what is pretty close to the Murder Capital of Canada. Someday, I think I'll move somewhere SAFE!), I have quite a few items designed to work off dynamo or other self-generated power, and it's not an easy thing.
Which reminds me, I need a stationary bicycle, an alternator, and some car batteries. Thank you Soylent Green for that idea!
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Yeah.... Microfusion cells... Lets break that word down... Micro, meaning very small... And fusion, a nuclear reaction intended for bombs and generating massive amounts of energy. Usually through the heat generated turning a set amount of water into steam, and the steam turning turbines hooked to a dynamo to create electricity. So, essentially it's a very tiny nuclear power plant in each cell... Which doesn't make sense. But, it's a game, so meh. If they had that, some awesome gyros, and some myomer bundles... Create a mech that would take out liberty 1 in a single PPC shot...
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Yeah.... Microfusion cells... Lets break that word down... Micro, meaning very small... And fusion, a nuclear reaction intended for bombs and generating massive amounts of energy. Usually through the heat generated turning a set amount of water into steam, and the steam turning turbines hooked to a dynamo to create electricity. So, essentially it's a very tiny nuclear power plant in each cell... Which doesn't make sense. But, it's a game, so meh. If they had that, some awesome gyros, and some myomer bundles... Create a mech that would take out liberty 1 in a single PPC shot...
I liked the YPK-1056 rifle (or whatever the hell the thing was called). 4x Microfusion cells per shot. With 4xOC/Maxxed MF cells, that thing was pretty damned scary....
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What do you think gets scrambled your your area RDQ when "BROKEN ARROW" gets called out?
Christian Slater.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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I want to get back to double-barreled assault cannons now.
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here here
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I wish they had included rules for multi-barrelled weapon mods. A Gatling style assault cannon would be sweeeet.
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I wish they had included rules for multi-barrelled weapon mods. A Gatling style assault cannon would be sweeeet.
Didn't we cover this idea earlier in the thread?
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Hey, they wanted to get back on track. I still want my rotary assault cannon.
Ooooo...I just had a thought! Rotary grenade launcher!
Rotary gauss rifle!
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Dear gods... The power required for a rotary gauss rifle would be... Stupid ridiculous...
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Dear gods... The power required for a rotary gauss rifle would be... Stupid ridiculous...
Which is why it's mounted on the USS Colin Powell! ;D
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Why would someone NEED that much firepower... Against what enemy would you require something that could turn an aircraft carrier into razor blades in ten seconds?
Speaking of aircraft carriers... A lot of people seem to think you need to sink an aircraft carrier... Untrue... All you have to do is screw up the flight deck a bit, maybe scrag the elevators, and that thing has to go back into drydock for months before it sees action again. Hell, screwing up the cavitation of the props is enough to send almost any ship to drydock for long enough to do some nefarious shadowrunning that you want the ship out of the way for... They operate on skeleton crew in drydock, and you can be damned sure the plane squadrons aren't going to be sitting onboard while it's in there.
So, I really don't see a REASON for a rotary gauss rifle at all, then. A couple exocets does the job cleaner...
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It's not about needing... It's about having it when the opposition doesn't. :P
That, and a Troll General needs to overcompensate for something, so it's ordered and made.
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Also, it'd look damned cool in Desert Wars!
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Missiles can be spoofed or shot down. Kinetic kill munitions don't care about EW and are too small and dense to be easily knocked off course.
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Gives new meaning to "I can't hack a Hick." :P
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Hrm.... Wonder if the SR Universe is gonna add the DD-X into the mix... IF the US Navy ever gets the thing out and about...
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Missiles can be spoofed or shot down. Kinetic kill munitions don't care about EW and are too small and dense to be easily knocked off course.
Correction: Base defense lasers can knock out artillery shells now.
Granted, not all of them, all the time. But still, it's a start.
http://defense-update.com/news/MTHEL.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1pkTMCZ0M
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Sure wish that had been operational in 04.
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Missiles can be spoofed or shot down. Kinetic kill munitions don't care about EW and are too small and dense to be easily knocked off course.
Correction: Base defense lasers can knock out artillery shells now.
Granted, not all of them, all the time. But still, it's a start.
http://defense-update.com/news/MTHEL.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1pkTMCZ0M
that same tech would work on anything with an explosive charge, overheat the shell til it starts burning and explodes, won't work on solid metal (non-explosive) ammo
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Exactly. Kinetic kill weapons use pure brute force to effect damage. Even if the laser heats it up, the super hard and dense material won't be significantly weakened, even assuming the laser could stay on target for a significant amount of time (small and very, very fast target, after all).
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It also depends on the laser's power output. Present tech isn't super efficient when cutting through stuff, but in 60 years it could be much improved.
Back to assault cannons, a break away double barrel frame clambered in assault cannon would be some crazy expensive custom build for a back country hick trog :P
*edit*: satanic post!
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Which makes the jury-rigged models that they have come up with even more exceptionally scary!
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Exactly. Kinetic kill weapons use pure brute force to effect damage. Even if the laser heats it up, the super hard and dense material won't be significantly weakened, even assuming the laser could stay on target for a significant amount of time (small and very, very fast target, after all).
Actually, if you melt a section of a kinetic kill weapon, you'll throw off the aerodynamics so it will simply land somewhere else.
High-velocity weapons are incredibly dependent on a static shape, so warping any single component via heat stres (and the rapid cooling of high speed) and even a pure tungsten Ortillery object is going to go boom somewhere waaaaaay off target.
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Ok, again, how are you going to melt a (for example) tungsten alloy penetrator the size of your forearm in the fraction of a second that it enters effective kill range before it strikes its target? Assuming, of course, that you have a tracking system that will let you keep a laser beam on a specific point on a small target travelling over five times the speed of sound?
What you say is true, as far as physics go. But the melting point, or even the plastic temperature range, of a hardened, armor piercing hyper kinetic penetrator is so high as to render it immune to such effects for the extremely limited exposure time.
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That, and if you melt it, it's STILL tungsten alloy traveling at five times the speed of sound... It's just liquid... Which will do MORE interesting things to what you are trying to protect, and possibly cause heat ignition...
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At mach 5? Hardly. Aerodynamics will allow the penetrator to slice through the air with relative ease. It will heat up, of course, but not to the melting point or even hot enough to make the material plastic.
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But it will be hot enough to piss it off and make it want to take vengeance on whatever it hits in a big way.
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I want to make a Tungsten Elemental now.
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To put it into perspective, the speed of sound (mach 1) at sea level is 340.3 meters/second. Mach 5, therefore is 5 * 340.3 m/s = 1621.5 m/s. In a three second Shadowrun combat round, the hypothetical hypersonic penetrator we are speaking of travels 4,884.5 meters. Honestly, at extreme sniper ranges, there would be some time between the trigger pull and the impact upon the target, since bullets tend to travel around the mach 2 mark (and thus travelling 680 meters/second or so). Modelling this in game would probably complicate things a bit, so I wouldn't recommend it.
Assuming a heavy MP laser is used for anti-missile defense (which is about the right size) means that, at extreme range, the laser's targetting system must lock onto and maintain lock, and must traverse the laser aperature onto the projectile, in less than one second from the time it hits effective firing range before it strikes the host vessel. From aquisition, to traverse, to firing, to holding onto target in order to deposit enough energy to disrupt a solid slug of dense, armor-piercing material in less than one second. Although it might be possible, I find it highly unlikely (too much is going against it).
EDIT: Spelling.
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But it will be hot enough to piss it off and make it want to take vengeance on whatever it hits in a big way.
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I want to make a Tungsten Elemental now.
Titanium is an Element, not an Alloy.
No reason to not allow an TiElemental!
Fire, Earth, Water and Air ain't elements after all.
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Tungsten and Titanium are Elements, yes.
As for Earth, Air, Fire, and Water (And Ęther), those are the Greek Classical Elements. Which is what the Hermetic Tradition is based off of. That and high-level mathematics that make nuclear physicists heads assplode.
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Tungsten and Titanium are Elements, yes.
As for Earth, Air, Fire, and Water (And Ęther), those are the Greek Classical Elements. Which is what the Hermetic Tradition is based off of. That and high-level mathematics that make nuclear physicists heads assplode.
Don't forget Phlogiston. Those wacky Londoners had some good theories too...
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Bah. Phlogiston was just a new name for Ęther. :P
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and an old name for oxygen
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Actually, no. Aether is closer but still not right. Phlogiston was supposed to be an element in the burning material, not in the atmosphere, which was consumed when the object burned. The more phlogiston the material contained the stronger the fire. Gasoline has a high phlogiston content, while steel's phlogiston content is very low.
yes, my mind is filled with trivial knowledge.
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Just don't break the Ęthernet cable. It would be bad. Really, really bad.
I'm really, really glad I never worked with a Phlogistonnet cable.