Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Mara on <07-30-11/2130:15>
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So, per Unwired, Anything that is software is viable as a Complex Form. I have been working on a Technomancer Face,
and I figured taking Empathy Program as a Complex Form would be a good start. Beyond the CF, is there anything else
I need to take to make it work?
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That, combined with the Idoru paragon and a good Charisma stream should be all your aspiring pr0nomancer needs. Thread your Empathy through the roof and watch the fun.
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Nope. Some GM's do consider it cheese, though - not so much technomancers in particular using it, but rather the software as a whole, since it's sufficiently cheap that it basically amounts to "+6 dice to all social skills for anyone who gives a damn" and ultimately just results in everyone rolling 6 more dice. Of course, technomancer faces can easily enough use it to get 12 more dice and thus come out ahead of everyone else.
So, if your GM allows it, yes and you do totally want it.
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If your GM is banning legal character options, they better have a better reason than "I don't like the way game rules work".
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Yet, nonetheless, many GMs will in fact ban stuff or ask you not to use it because they don't like the effect it has - in this case, everyone and their dog rolling 6 extra dice on every social test, which is ultimately a waste of everyone's time.
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Oh..this is no GM yet...I like to see how I can break the system....
And, the idea of cyber-less characters always intrigues me. Given that this Technomancer
build is competent with pistols(and has the Smartlink CF), as well as all the other stuff
expected of a Face...and I know darn well where I can go Echos-wise(Bio-wires and resonance
iniative pass boosts planned down the line), this is pretty much exactly what I think a Face should
be like..(Only thing I didn't like was I couldn't squeeze a troll into the build..had to settle for an Ork)
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Smartlink CF is a waste of a CF. Don't get it unless you've got every useful form first. Better to get contacts or glasses with image link and smartlink.
The TM that is replacing my (now deceased) rigger is a troll... 40 pts for 5 body 5 strength in exchange for not megamaxing your mental atttributes is a great deal, plus the dermal deposits and thermovision and reach.
Bargain.
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You cant thread up empathy complex form, that would be like trying to thread up a smartlink complex form. Emulated complex forms cant be buffed by threading or sprites.
You could still be face with nice charisma, emphaty and the works, but you are not going to be in the league of the adepts. well, at least not in the physical world - you can work magic in social engineering through the matrix. The Chatty quality from unwired and m4d skillz in hacking will give you good rep in circles not available to most physical faces.
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You cant thread up empathy complex form, that would be like trying to thread up a smartlink complex form. Emulated complex forms cant be buffed by threading or sprites.
You could still be face with nice charisma, emphaty and the works, but you are not going to be in the league of the adepts. well, at least not in the physical world - you can work magic in social engineering through the matrix. The Chatty quality from unwired and m4d skillz in hacking will give you good rep in circles not available to most physical faces.
Nonsense. First, you CAN in fact thread up a Smartlink complex form. See Unwired 136. It even explicitly mentions you can thread them!
Second, Empathy software isn't special. It's a program like any other and can have complex forms, threading, etc like any other. If you disagree please provide a page citation with where you see an exception. Unwired 136 in the "Adopting Software" box indicates that you can mimic any rated software with learning or threading.
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Actually, the Smartlink is NOT a wasted CF. See, first there is the fact that glasses, contacts, etc,
can be taken away from you. Second: it makes hacking the Smartguns of others so much more useful!
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You could always just thread the smartlink CF though. Threading is an action that takes no time, you only need 1 hit to thread it, and you need to soak a whopping 1S drain.
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You cant thread up empathy complex form, that would be like trying to thread up a smartlink complex form. Emulated complex forms cant be buffed by threading or sprites.
You could still be face with nice charisma, emphaty and the works, but you are not going to be in the league of the adepts. well, at least not in the physical world - you can work magic in social engineering through the matrix. The Chatty quality from unwired and m4d skillz in hacking will give you good rep in circles not available to most physical faces.
Nonsense. First, you CAN in fact thread up a Smartlink complex form. See Unwired 136. It even explicitly mentions you can thread them!
Second, Empathy software isn't special. It's a program like any other and can have complex forms, threading, etc like any other. If you disagree please provide a page citation with where you see an exception. Unwired 136 in the "Adopting Software" box indicates that you can mimic any rated software with learning or threading.
You misread my comment. You can thread them, but you cant buff them with more threading like regular complex forms. For example, you can ask your sprite to use Assist complex form on your Stealth CF, but it wont help your Smartlink CF.
I'll refer you to This Page (http://"http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=26982&view=findpost&p=817120") for further info about the smartlink CF, and I believe other emulated software like the Empathy software would work the same way.
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Based on the rules in Unwired pg136, under "Adopting Software", it doesn't seem like the Emulation restrictions would apply to picking up Empathy as a CF. Then again, that part is also entirely optional.
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You cant thread up empathy complex form, that would be like trying to thread up a smartlink complex form. Emulated complex forms cant be buffed by threading or sprites.
You could still be face with nice charisma, emphaty and the works, but you are not going to be in the league of the adepts. well, at least not in the physical world - you can work magic in social engineering through the matrix. The Chatty quality from unwired and m4d skillz in hacking will give you good rep in circles not available to most physical faces.
Nonsense. First, you CAN in fact thread up a Smartlink complex form. See Unwired 136. It even explicitly mentions you can thread them!
Second, Empathy software isn't special. It's a program like any other and can have complex forms, threading, etc like any other. If you disagree please provide a page citation with where you see an exception. Unwired 136 in the "Adopting Software" box indicates that you can mimic any rated software with learning or threading.
You misread my comment. You can thread them, but you cant buff them with more threading like regular complex forms. For example, you can ask your sprite to use Assist complex form on your Stealth CF, but it wont help your Smartlink CF.
I'll refer you to This Page (http://"http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=26982&view=findpost&p=817120") for further info about the smartlink CF, and I believe other emulated software like the Empathy software would work the same way.
Ah, I see the source of your confusion. "Emulation" refers to something very, very specific - using Biowire to emulate Skillsofts. It is 100% correct that you cannot further thread an Emulated skillsoft nor can you Assist Operation it.
Smartlinks are unusual not because they fall into some nebulous "Emulated" category (you cannot in fact Emulate a smartlink, because it's not a Skillsoft), but rather because smartlinks are unrated. That is why you cannot further thread Smartlinks or Assist Operation them. Threading it would boost its rating - but it's a Smartlink, and Smartlinks don't have ratings. Same with Assist Operation.
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When I used the english word emulate (not the term Emulate), I did not referred to the act of emulating skillsoft, but to threading unconventional software such as smartlink and sensor soft. Maybe I should not put sensor soft and unrated CF under the same banner, but since the wording under "Adopting Software" that talks about "mimicking" the program is similar to the one under "None-Rated Complex Forms", I would treat them similarly mechanic-wise.
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Can you explain what category Empathy Software is in that Browse is not, and provide some reference for this? "It is in Arsenal rather than SR4A" isn't a reason to make it work differently.
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If you open the books you mentioned, you can see that Browse is under the category of "Common-use" programs, while Empathy is under the category of "Sensor Software" programs.
To further underline this distinction, Sensor Software and Common-use Programs are treated differently in the Programming table in unwired.
The "Adopting Software" pg. 136 in unwired specifically mention sensor-soft, and shaping complex forms basing them on the original program. Unlike normal complex forms that mimic programs without any referral and out of thin air, here you need to base the threading on something, which imply you cant improve it on the fly like normal complex forms.
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Okay, but "Common Use Software" is not really relevant - Exploit is not "Common Use Software" but it doesn't have special threading rules. The sensor-soft thing you are talking about just says that you can't thread up software that relies on particular sensors and then use it if you don't have those particular sensors - ie, threading up a tacnet doesn't free you from the limitation of needing sensor channels for your tacnet.
The ONLY reason you cannot thread Smartlink higher is because Smartlink is unrated. Emulation is something completely different and has nothing to do with this.
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In response to the OP: no you don't need anything else for empathy software to work. Check to see if your GM is using dice pool caps however, as this can reduce the usefulness of Empathy Software.
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In response to the OP: no you don't need anything else for empathy software to work. Check to see if your GM is using dice pool caps however, as this can reduce the usefulness of Empathy Software.
Social modifiers are already capped at Charisma+skill modifier(so this character has a maximum of +8 right now...and Tailored Pheremones and
Empathy CF 3)
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Then you should probably lose the Tailored Pheremones, buy up the Empathy CF higher, and then just thread it a bit more when you need it.