Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Jaffer on <07-15-11/1926:33>

Title: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Jaffer on <07-15-11/1926:33>
***Updated version on page two***



Name: Irving Fisher
Metatype: Human

Stats:
Body: 4
Agility: 5
Reaction: 5 (7)
Strength: 3
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 3
Logic: 3
Willpower: 3

Edge: 6
Essence: 4.5


Qualities:
Positive:
Ambidextrous
Blandness
Martial Arts: Krav Maga ( +1 to called shots to disarm )
Martial Arts: Krav Maga ( Ready a weapon as a free action )
Martial Arts: Krav Maga ( -1 to the negative for shooting in melee )
Perceptive (1)
Photographic Memory
Restricted Gear

Negative:
Combat Monster
Incompetent (Computers)
Incompetent (Data Search)
Incompetent (Hacking)
Incompetent (Hardware)
Incompetent (Software)
Uncouth
Signature (golden bullet fired into the target, post mortem)


Skills:
Athletics (1)
Stealth (2)
Perception (2)
Longarms (Sniper Rifles) (5)
Unarmed (Martial Arts: Krav Maga) (5)
Pistols (3)
Automatics (1)
Armorer (2)
First Aid (1)
Pilot Ground Vehicle (1)

Knowledge: Black Markets (Weapons) (3)
Knowledge: Fancy Restaurants (1)
Knowledge: Firearms (3)
Knowledge: Military (Special Forces) (3)
Knowledge: Safe Houses (Runner Houses) (3)
Knowledge: Security Procedures (2)

Language: English (N)


Augmentation:
Synaptic Booster (2)
Digestive Expansion


Comlink:
Model: Renraku Sensei
OS: Renraku Ichi

Fake SIN:
SIN 5
SIN 4
SIN 3

Weapons:
Ranger Arms SM-4 (Inbuilt Smart System, Bipod)
Ares Light Fire 70 (Silencer)

Armor:
Ulysses Line
Form Fitting Armor (Half Body Suit)

Gear:
Monocle (Visor style) (Smartlink, Vision Enhancement (3))
Ghillie suit (Urban)
Ghillie suit (Bush)
Backpack

Regular rounds
subsonic rounds
Gold rounds
Spare clips

Shop (Armorer)


Contacts:
Loyalty 1 / Connections 3 - Contract provider
Loyalty 4 / Connections 1 - Computer expert / Hacker


Vehicle:
Sedan (concealed armor (5), Personal Armor (6))

Lifestyle: High


Bio:
Former special forces.
Started contracting after the crash.
Doesn't understand computers (Quote: "Where's the 'any' key?")

Combat style:
Will wait for multiple days to make the shot.
Will pack up and try to blend into the crowd or bush after the shot.
Doesn't try to attract attention.

Bit of a recluse / hermit - does not talk much or get on with people.
When talking 'shop' the character becomes a bit more involved

-------------------------

This is my first attempt at a character, what do you all think?
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Chrona on <07-15-11/1936:32>
Others will bring this up in more detail but most GMs wouldn't go along with
Incompetent (Computers)
Incompetent (Data Search)
Incompetent (Hacking)
Incompetent (Hardware)
Incompetent (Software)
It's hard to be ex-special forces but barely be able to turn a commlink on


or be comfortable with Uncouth
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Jaffer on <07-15-11/1946:07>
I wanted the character to have that "Where the 'any' key" quality to them, for fun mostly.

I wanted them to be anti-social and a bit of a loner, and uncouth seemed like the best option for me there.

Is there a better way for me to impliment this?

If I need more points, I am willing to drop the car...
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Chrona on <07-15-11/1957:01>
I wanted the character to have that "Where the 'any' key" quality to them, for fun mostly.

I wanted them to be anti-social and a bit of a loner, and uncouth seemed like the best option for me there.

Is there a better way for me to impliment this?

If I need more points, I am willing to drop the car...
Like I said, the main problem is it doesn't fit too well with ex-special forces. Maybe switch the common ones, computer, etc to codeblock instead.
Uncouth is more Me+Talking=Barfight
being a loner is more something you need to roleplay, not buy.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: baronspam on <07-15-11/1958:42>
Positive and negative qualities are limited to 35 points each.  I think  you are over.

Think long and hard over uncouth.  It makes your character a social idiot. 

Also think long and hard about the overall computer incompetence.  Even if you are not a hacker computer technology is ubiquitous. If you can't send and email or run a basic matrix search there will be some significant issues. 

You are a pretty skilled distance shooter, and the longarms skill can cover shotguns for times when you need to get up and personal. 

I question synaptic boosters 2 for this character.  Its incredibly expensive, you are not really that short on essence, and there are many other things you could grab that would give you bonuses.  Some levels of Muscle Toner will increase your agility.  Some levels of synthacardium will bonus your athletics skills, and thus your gymnastics and your ability to dodge.  I would either drop boosters to level one or switch to wired reflexes.

The stealth skill group includes 4 different skills,  Do you want all of them?  If you do its a bargain points wise, but if all you want is some infiltration and shadowing its cheaper to buy them individually. 





Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Jaffer on <07-15-11/2115:23>
Name: Irving Fisher
Metatype: Human

Stats:
Body: 4
Agility: 5 (7)
Reaction: 5 (7)
Strength: 3
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 3
Logic: 3
Willpower: 3

Edge: 6
Essence: 4


Qualities:
Positive:
Ambidextrous
Blandness
Martial Arts: Krav Maga ( +1 to called shots to disarm )
Martial Arts: Krav Maga ( Ready a weapon as a free action )
Martial Arts: Krav Maga ( -1 to the negative for shooting in melee )
Restricted Gear

Negative:
Combat Monster
Signature (golden bullet fired into the target, post mortem)
Sensitive System


Skills:
Athletics (1)
Disguise (Camoflague +2) (2)
Infiltration (2)
Perception (1)
Longarms (Sniper Rifles) (5)
Unarmed (Martial Arts: Krav Maga) (5)
Pistols (3)
Automatics (1)
Armorer (Firearms) (2)

Knowledge: Black Markets (Weapons) (3)
Knowledge: Fancy Restaurants (1)
Knowledge: Firearms (3)
Knowledge: Military (Special Forces) (3)
Knowledge: Safe Houses (Runner Houses) (3)
Knowledge: Security Procedures (2)

Language: English (N)


Augmentation: (All bioware)
Synaptic Booster (2)
Digestive Expansion
Muscle Toner (2)
Nictitating Membrane


Comlink:
Model: Renraku Sensei
OS: Renraku Ichi

Fake SIN:
SIN 5
SIN 4
SIN 3

Weapons:
Ranger Arms SM-4 (Inbuilt Smart System, Bipod)
Ares Light Fire 70 (Silencer)

Armor:
Ulysses Line
Form Fitting Armor (Half Body Suit)

Gear:
Monocle (Visor style) (Smartlink, Vision Enhancement (3))
Ghillie suit (Urban)
Ghillie suit (Bush)
Backpack

Regular rounds
subsonic rounds
Gold rounds
Spare clips

Shop (Armorer)


Contacts:
Loyalty 1 / Connections 3 - Contract provider
Loyalty 3 / Connections 1 - Computer Expert / Hacker


Lifestyle: High


Bio:
Former Scout/Sniper.
Started contracting after the crash.

Combat style:
Will wait for multiple days to make the shot.
Will pack up and try to blend into the crowd or bush after the shot.
Doesn't try to attract attention.

Krav Maga is used to disarm opponents, maybe even use their own weapon against them.

Bit of a recluse / hermit - does not talk much or get on with people.
When talking 'shop' the character becomes a bit more involved

-------------------------
Changes:
Removed several qualities to tone it down and bring it under to 35bp cap.

Removed the car
removed pilot ground vehicle
removed first aid
changed stealth to disgise and infiltration

No Cyberware, but several more Bioware mods added.

Removed the "Where's the 'any' key" trait from the character.
Removed Uncouth so they can work in a social context.

Thankyou to Chrona and Baronspam for your help so far.


Any ideas or sugestions are welcome.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Kontact on <07-16-11/0151:37>
It's hard to be ex-special forces but barely be able to turn a commlink on

Not barely able.  Completely unable. 
Mentally incompetent and unable to even follow directions should someone explain it to him point by point.

If you want a quality that would make the character a loner without making him autistic, try compulsive.
He could have compulsive avoidance of social situations.  That's probably worth 5-10 bp.


It's also worth mentioning that sniping is a very niche role which basically consists of waiting outside while everyone else goes on a shadowrun.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: John Shull on <07-16-11/0749:09>
Just a couple things that caught my eye. 

Combat Monster does not jive well with the patient hunter, wait days for a shot, thing you got going on, neither does the sig: golden bullet in your vic.  You Hulk out in a firefight, or from a sniper perch, and when the bad guys are down switch in your golden ammo for some Willy Wonka golden ticket satisfaction and/or advertising.

Spec War guys are more likely to have Flashbacks unless you are absolutely married to Combat Monster and were bounced out of the Mossad for it.  Snipers work in pairs and you could have Flashbacks at losing your buddy, and could be why your not in cammies today.  Also whoever you worked for will have Records on File for you.  That is probably where your contact comes from, doing work as a deniable asset off their books.  (Assuming you were going Isreali, Irviing Fisher/Krav Maga, but no lang skill for it so I might be off base there)

Your character is a great distance shot and great up close which is a quandry.  Sniper you will want to max infiltration.  As infil/exfil is the balance of your job, along with navigation and survival.  Up close combat is not a main driver for a sniper.  Nothing wrong with being able to tussle but you should have all your sniper skills rocking first (you could have learned the hand to hand first of course but you look kinda like a Isreali Def Force guy and getting that good cracking skulls they would keep you doing that and teaching that before sending you to work a scope).  Also you should make a knowledge skill Sniper tactics, knowledge skill of your Spec War Grp, Sniper math (Geometry plus wind/temp variables plus your guns variables equals Gallagher moment) which is a must for LONG up to a mile shots, and maybe some Gunsmithing as shooters love to tinker with their weapons.  Watch the Mark Wahlburg movie Shooter and it will cover everything you will want to do in game. 

Sorry I ramble a bit.  See if anything I said is applicable to what you want and I can go on at length from there.  I have gamed with some military guys and they get pasionate about details.

One last point, with your tweaked reaction and hand to hand you may want to switch to more a Commando but watch Shooter first it is a limited but playable character.  Its a little easier to play a ghost in Shadowrun but Infil/Exfil will still be really high, athletics, repel, and most are paratroopers.  You could get many meat skill sets as a SWAT cop.  They do not learn survival, navigation, paratrooping, and have great expertise in the city, criminal organizations, street ett, and understanding of police procedures and communication.  Somewhat useful in game.

Sorry I just noticed that you had Armorer, gunsmithing thing covered.  You also had the Spec War Grp covered but you didn't specify which one.  Which is kinda a big deal but you got points on it.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Glyph on <07-16-11/1430:22>
Be sure to run the sensitive system flaw past your GM first.  It is a flaw because it curtails your options, but some GMs still have a dislike for characters who have this flaw without any cyberware.  Now me, I think it's fine as a flaw, given how incredibly cheap cyberware is in comparison for some things such as initiative boosters.  But I'm mentioning it because a thread on Dumpshock is still fresh in my mind, where the concept of a character with sensitive system and no cyberware seemed to draw the ire of numerous GMs.  I think John was pretty much spot on about the other flaws, and he offered some alternatives that would fit your overall concept better.

On a piddly, technical note: if you use external technological aids for a smartlink, they need to include the image link to work (no biggie, a whopping 25 Nuyen).  Also, consider getting the skinlink modification for both your monocle and your guns (they have it where they talk about commlink accessories, but other devices can use it).  Nothing worse than a hacker hacking your gun to turn the safety on or make it eject the clip in the middle of a firefight.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Seeker on <07-16-11/1728:39>
Be sure to run the sensitive system flaw past your GM first.  It is a flaw because it curtails your options, but some GMs still have a dislike for characters who have this flaw without any cyberware.  Now me, I think it's fine as a flaw, given how incredibly cheap cyberware is in comparison for some things such as initiative boosters.  But I'm mentioning it because a thread on Dumpshock is still fresh in my mind, where the concept of a character with sensitive system and no cyberware seemed to draw the ire of numerous GMs.  I think John was pretty much spot on about the other flaws, and he offered some alternatives that would fit your overall concept better.

Yeah, I'm of that little bandwagon.  I grew tired of adepts, and magicians taking it.  I suppose my argument is pretty much the same, except that it is a flaw, and thus needs to have more impact than "I'll never take Cyberware!"  Fine for augmented characters as it effectively removes one option from gameplay, but magic users have already removed the option from gameplay, and are basically getting Adept/Mystic Adept as a 10 point Negative Quality, or Magician for free.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Onion Man on <07-16-11/1807:17>
I can't disagree more adamantly with the direction of the last couple of posts.

"I don't like how a natural combination of positive and negative qualities work together"

"So make a houserule against intelligent character optimization"

That's like saying I don't like how ECCM works with satellite uplinks, make a houserule banning satellite uplinks for any character with ECCM; or I don't like how adrenaline surge works with low initiative, make a houserule ruining adrenaline surge; or I don't like how infirm isn't a real penalty for a rigger, so why should riggers get 20 free BP.

It's flawed thinking.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Jaffer on <07-16-11/1820:30>
Thankyou for the ideas John Shull.

I actually based the character off the character from Shooter, with a bit of Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell thrown in.

I agree in Combat monster, and I'll probably remove it.
I don't need to keep the golden bullet, but I thought it would be fun to play it out in character.
"You kill him, but his body falls under the lip of the building, to get the bullet, you're going over there..."

Instead of flashbacks on lossing my partner, make an enemy and have my partner have betrayed me.
It explains my choice to go solo, and grants the GM a counter sniper to cause me grief.


Thanks to everyone's help, the character is reaching the number juggling phase.  Thankyou everyone for your help.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Seeker on <07-16-11/1830:33>
It's flawed thinking.

There's a pun here somewhere...

I'm only against taking Sensitive System as an Awakened character for one reason.  That reason is, is that every flaw is just screaming to be taken advantage of at some point.

Except Sensitive System.  Why?  Because, you implant a Mage with anything against his will (even before this flaw) you are demolishing a large part of his character.  Most GM's are (rightfully so) unwilling to do this, because it undermines the relationship between the GM and his characters.  You are punishing someone, at this point.  Doesn't matter if it makes sense, either.

So taking Sensitive System to me, is like giving candy to a baby and then someone goading you to take it.  And you don't want to, because even though it's candy, you'll still make the baby cry.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Onion Man on <07-16-11/1837:04>
It's no different from taking uneducated and getting all of your professional, academic, and technical skill (leg)work done by contacts and other party members.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Seeker on <07-16-11/1850:30>
It's no different from taking uneducated and getting all of your professional, academic, and technical skill (leg)work done by contacts and other party members.

Uneducated is a 20 point flaw.  At this exact point, you have a character who does not know things that may be necessary for his everyday life as a runner.  It is different because with this flaw, he depends on other people.  In its nature, it is a flaw that has repercussions.

Sensitive System is a 15 point flaw.  At this exact point, you have a mage who can still demolish you and has absolutely zero negative effects, unless you fundamentally screw over his character and permanently reduce his Magic stat.

Also,

Joe Uneducated considers it a roleplaying opportunity when you take advantage of his flaw.

Joe Sensitive (snicker) considers you no longer a friend when you take advantage of his.
--

I understand that there are millions of ways to game the system.  But, some of those ways a GM can actually take advantage of.  Sensitive System, in my honest opinion, not suitable for Awakened Characters (unless a cybered adept who has actually taken cyberware) in the same way that one would not allow that same Mage to take Codeblock (Hacking).

Shoot, I'd even just take this as a victory.
Sensitive System (-15)
Sensitive System (-5 if Awakened)

Edit:  Fixed some spelling errors.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Onion Man on <07-16-11/1904:58>
Joe Uneducated isn't going to view the 15 or 18 points he spent on a contact group or set of contacts being nerfed as a roleplaying opportunity, he's going to view it as a GM nerfing his character for choosing a positive net exchange in his BP.

Tweaking game mechanics for "fairness" will nearly always result in three things:
1) A less fun system to work with
2) A more complex system to work within
3) Nerfed characters/Hurt feelings

btw, the game I'm running now has 2 cybered-up adepts and a magician considering a handful of implants of his own.  All 3 of them avoided that negative quality intentionally.

None of your players are going to enjoy forcibly having an implant added to them.  Doesn't have a damn thing to do with numbers or mechanics, it has to do with an invasion of persona and a loss of free will.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: John Shull on <07-16-11/1906:06>
I can't disagree more adamantly with the direction of the last couple of posts.

"I don't like how a natural combination of positive and negative qualities work together"

"So make a houserule against intelligent character optimization"

That's like saying I don't like how ECCM works with satellite uplinks, make a houserule banning satellite uplinks for any character with ECCM; or I don't like how adrenaline surge works with low initiative, make a houserule ruining adrenaline surge; or I don't like how infirm isn't a real penalty for a rigger, so why should riggers get 20 free BP.

It's flawed thinking.

Let me say I don't allow negative qualities that are not negatives. Saying that I don't have the worst case senario to give a negative either.  I had a Sensitive System Mage in game before and did not think it was in spirit of the rules but I could make it work.  Later on, several eps into the campaign, he gets chewed up and I give the medic working him 2 die penalty for every thing they try to do on him.  His system is just weirdly fickle and drug dosage and drugs themselves have to be chosen carefully.  It took a bit in game for the team to catch on what the issue was, most thought the medic was crapping his rolls.  Later on told him it cost an exta grand to fix him up and that he needs to get a medic alert bracelet for the future.  I think I called it Hitchcocks Syndrome and it was that heritary conditon his Sensative System comes from.  I also mentioned it would cost him some to put it in his Fake Sins if he was gonna get the braclet the medic told him to get.  Player had completely forgotten it was on his sheet.  He started reading the rule book to me and I just said I liked my interpretation better.  So it all worked out.  It did take me longer than I like to make it go but usually it does all work out in the end.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Seeker on <07-16-11/1913:53>
I can't disagree more adamantly with the direction of the last couple of posts.

"I don't like how a natural combination of positive and negative qualities work together"

"So make a houserule against intelligent character optimization"

That's like saying I don't like how ECCM works with satellite uplinks, make a houserule banning satellite uplinks for any character with ECCM; or I don't like how adrenaline surge works with low initiative, make a houserule ruining adrenaline surge; or I don't like how infirm isn't a real penalty for a rigger, so why should riggers get 20 free BP.

It's flawed thinking.

Let me say I don't allow negative qualities that are not negatives. Saying that I don't have the worst case senario to give a negative either.  I had a Sensitive System Mage in game before and did not think it was in spirit of the rules but I could make it work.  Later on, several eps into the campaign, he gets chewed up and I give the medic working him 2 die penalty for every thing they try to do on him.  His system is just weirdly fickle and drug dosage and drugs themselves have to be chosen carefully.  It took a bit in game for the team to catch on what the issue was, most thought the medic was crapping his rolls.  Later on told him it cost an exta grand to fix him up and that he needs to get a medic alert bracelet for the future.  I think I called it Hitchcocks Syndrome and it was that heritary conditon his Sensative System comes from.  I also mentioned it would cost him some to put it in his Fake Sins if he was gonna get the braclet the medic told him to get.  Player had completely forgotten it was on his sheet.  He started reading the rule book to me and I just said I liked my interpretation better.  So it all worked out.  It did take me longer than I like to make it go but usually it does all work out in the end.

Makes sense.  And an interesting take.  My problem with this though is that this is somewhat included in Weak Immune System, or one of a few other categories.

Once again, this is 'an each to his own' viewpoint.

I know that no one likes having stuff done to them against their will.  I think the point I was trying to tiptoe around was that this was the only way to mechanically take advantage of Sensitive System without resorting to the claim that it works as John Shull said.

I guess, as a GM, a negative quality is only worth its weight in points is if I can use it in game at some point.  And Sensitive System is a glaring example of something I cannot use, and provides no real negative to an Awakened character.  Only a slight possibility of inhibiting choice later in his career.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Onion Man on <07-16-11/1924:07>
A GM shouldn't be looking to mechanically take advantage of characters.  Shadowrun, like all RPGs, is a cooperative competitive engagement, not an adversarial one.

You've just highlighted the reason I avoid playing with fledgeling GMs (in all games), you've decided it is your job to take advantage of negative qualities rather than allowing your players to role play their negatives.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Seeker on <07-16-11/1935:45>
A GM shouldn't be looking to mechanically take advantage of characters.  Shadowrun, like all RPGs, is a cooperative competitive engagement, not an adversarial one.

You've just highlighted the reason I avoid playing with fledgeling GMs (in all games), you've decided it is your job to take advantage of negative qualities rather than allowing your players to role play their negatives.

Okay.  Backpedal here.

Taking advantage of means as much as imposing penalties as it does offering up interesting roleplaying opportunities.

Sensitive System does not do that.

Scorched offers up roleplaying opportunities when dealing with Black IC or BTL's.  Makes the character sweat, and he feels the pressure of taking the quality.  He also feels more rewarded when he overcomes it.

Amnesia offers up a chance to create an engaging story with a character's background.

Each negative quality should give the character as much a portion of the spotlight, as his positive qualities do.

My problem with Sensitive System is that unless the player enforces some penalty on themselves (and in essence claims the negative quality as something that is quite real) it never comes up.  All it becomes is, as I said before, a free Magician quality.

Honestly, I only really play with friends.  I don't have a notebook of characters killed (had a GM who had a trophy book, and a special section for TPK's).  I don't try to get one over on my characters.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Polymath76 on <07-16-11/2330:49>
Just some FYSA info here for background flavor..

-Special Operators are typically the SMARTEST, most well rounded troops in whatever branch they're in. Being technologically illiterate is a no go. Two types of guys successfully  become Operators: super-fit PT studs that learn to be tech competent, and really brainy guys who grow a pair and become super-fit PT studs.
-Special Operators are NOT loners. That's movie and Image comics BS. If he's having psychological issues that make him the 'dangerous loner', it'd probably have to do with his post-military career experiences.
-Krav Maga has nothing to do with shooting ability or targeting. Hands, knees, elbows, sometimes feet, knives, sticks, and the butt of a rifle to the head is the extent of it (<--Kravist for 3 years now).
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: John Shull on <07-16-11/2345:25>
I can't disagree more adamantly with the direction of the last couple of posts.

"I don't like how a natural combination of positive and negative qualities work together"

"So make a houserule against intelligent character optimization"

That's like saying I don't like how ECCM works with satellite uplinks, make a houserule banning satellite uplinks for any character with ECCM; or I don't like how adrenaline surge works with low initiative, make a houserule ruining adrenaline surge; or I don't like how infirm isn't a real penalty for a rigger, so why should riggers get 20 free BP.

It's flawed thinking.

Let me say I don't allow negative qualities that are not negatives. Saying that I don't have the worst case senario to give a negative either.  I had a Sensitive System Mage in game before and did not think it was in spirit of the rules but I could make it work.  Later on, several eps into the campaign, he gets chewed up and I give the medic working him 2 die penalty for every thing they try to do on him.  His system is just weirdly fickle and drug dosage and drugs themselves have to be chosen carefully.  It took a bit in game for the team to catch on what the issue was, most thought the medic was crapping his rolls.  Later on told him it cost an exta grand to fix him up and that he needs to get a medic alert bracelet for the future.  I think I called it Hitchcocks Syndrome and it was that heritary conditon his Sensative System comes from.  I also mentioned it would cost him some to put it in his Fake Sins if he was gonna get the braclet the medic told him to get.  Player had completely forgotten it was on his sheet.  He started reading the rule book to me and I just said I liked my interpretation better.  So it all worked out.  It did take me longer than I like to make it go but usually it does all work out in the end.

Makes sense.  And an interesting take.  My problem with this though is that this is somewhat included in Weak Immune System, or one of a few other categories.

Once again, this is 'an each to his own' viewpoint.

I know that no one likes having stuff done to them against their will.  I think the point I was trying to tiptoe around was that this was the only way to mechanically take advantage of Sensitive System without resorting to the claim that it works as John Shull said.

I guess, as a GM, a negative quality is only worth its weight in points is if I can use it in game at some point.  And Sensitive System is a glaring example of something I cannot use, and provides no real negative to an Awakened character.  Only a slight possibility of inhibiting choice later in his career.

It is every GM to do the best to make the rules work out the fairest way possible.  I see Sensative System and I just look at his character as being more fragile to shocks to it and that's it.  Still fights disease, heals, etc.  He never knows when it will come into play but when it does it does, kinda like allergies.  Those disads are not a game running thing but how the character is different from other characters thing.  It is not an invitation to the GM to bring the wraith, unless it is Borrowed Time or Enemy. 
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Jaffer on <07-17-11/0131:59>
**Update #3**

Name: Irving Fisher
Metatype: Human

Stats:
Body: 4
Agility: 5 (7)
Reaction: 5 (7)
Strength: 3
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 3
Logic: 3
Willpower: 3

Edge: 6
Essence: 4


Qualities:
Positive:
Blandness
Martial Arts: Krav Maga ( +1 to called shots to disarm )
Martial Arts: Krav Maga ( Ready a weapon as a free action )
Martial Arts: Krav Maga ( -1 to the negative for shooting in melee )
Restricted Gear

Negative:
Combat Monster
Signature (golden bullet fired into the target, post mortem)
Sensitive System


Skills:
Athletics (1)
Disguise (Camoflague +2) (2)
Infiltration (2)
Perception (1)
Longarms (Sniper Rifles) (6)
Unarmed (Martial Arts: Krav Maga) (4)
Pistols (1)
Automatics (1)
Armorer (Firearms) (2)
Navigation (1)
Survival (2)

Knowledge: Black Markets (2)
Knowledge: Fancy Restaurants (1)
Knowledge: Firearms (3)
Knowledge: Military (Scout/Sniper) (3)
Knowledge: Safe Houses (Runner Houses) (3)
Knowledge: Security Procedures (1)
Knowledge: Sniper shooting principles (i.e. windage, bullet drop) (5bp)


Language: English (N)
Language: Hebrew (1bp) (Where he was taught Krav Maga)


Augmentation: (All bioware)
Synaptic Booster (2)
Digestive Expansion
Muscle Toner (2)
Nictitating Membrane


Comlink:
Model: Renraku Sensei
OS: Renraku Ichi

Fake SIN:
SIN 5
SIN 4
SIN 3

Weapons:
Ranger Arms SM-4 (Inbuilt Smart System, Bipod, Skin link)
Ares Light Fire 70 (Silencer)

Armor:
Ulysses Line
Form Fitting Armor (Half Body Suit)

Gear:
Monocle (Visor style) (Smartlink, Vision Enhancement (3), Image Link, Skin link)
Ghillie suit (Urban)
Ghillie suit (Bush)
Backpack

Regular rounds
subsonic rounds
Gold rounds
Spare clips

Shop (Armorer)


Contacts:
Loyalty 1 / Connections 3 - Contract provider
Loyalty 3 / Connections 1 - Computer Expert / Hacker


Lifestyle: High


Bio:
Former Scout/Sniper.
was trained in snipers and advanced unarmed combat.
Started contracting after the crash.

Combat style:
Will wait for multiple days to make the shot.
Will pack up and try to blend into the crowd or bush after the shot.
Doesn't try to attract attention.

Krav Maga is used to disarm opponents, maybe even use their own weapon against them.

Bit of a recluse / hermit - does not talk much or get on with people.
When talking 'shop' the character becomes a bit more involved


-------------------------
Changes:
increased sniper to 6 and reduced melee to 4.
reduced pistols to 1
removed ambidexterity
Added navigation and survival.
Added Language: Hebrew for storyline matters.


Still to work on.
May remove the golden bullet signature and replace with enemy, making the characters former spotter his enemy.
May make slight modifications to the bioware, maybe include cats eyes (for night movement) or gills (for water infiltration)  These are still undecided.
balancing of everything still to happen.


Any ideas or sugestions welcome.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: eshoup1 on <07-17-11/0800:30>
I think you have a good start but that perception 1 seems really low. You are only rolling 4 dice when looking through your scope while trying to spot a target. That seems extremely poor for someone who has had extensive military training in target identification. Having never been in the military I have no first hand experience, but from what I can recall about what I have seen... each person in the sniper team is trained to be both on the trigger and on the spotter scope. It makes sense that you would at least have a specialization in visual perception or maybe a few more points of perception. It is hard to hit what you can't see.

Just something to think about.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: John Shull on <07-17-11/0923:41>
The cat eyes may work pretty good.  Gills seem a reach unless you build up that aspect of the character, swimming and gear.  The golden bullet sig is a message sender and unless the message your wanting to send is a core part of the character I would look around a bit more before commiting to it.  Mind you anyone can send a gold bullet into someone as a FU to a baddie but the neg quality means you are OCD about having to put one in.  Enemy is good for storylines and the GM always gets something out of it. 

Some other random thoughts on the character trying to have him live up to the outline given.  Erased is an idea if your pulling jobs for old military contacts and explain why you don't have Records on File.  Crash can explain no SIN but military records don't erase so easy.  Might want a survival knife in your gear.  Distinctive style can be bought cheap in my games for 5 pt variety by getting military tatts, RANGER on the arm and the like.  How well does your character drive because most urban spec war groups have offensive driving courses.   Most Spec War have some paratrooper training.  Knowledge skill on enemies your unit engaged, ie, Republican Guard, Drug Cartels, Wildcats, CAS Ghosts, etc.  Also it is hard to make a fully actualized Spec War soldier on 400 pts.  So if your pulling your hair on the math juggle I understand.  I made one and skimped but had to use 450.   
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Glyph on <07-17-11/1630:40>
You definitely need either cat's eyes, or a low-light modification to your visor.  A sniper who can't see in the dark won't be good for much.  The problem with sniping is that it is a niche role, and this character is seriously limited outside of sniping.

On sensitive system, I said that personally, I had no problem with it.  I think a lot of people misunderstand why it is a flaw, when they say the only way to take advantage of it is to forcibly implant cyberware into a character.  It is not a roleplaying flaw, nor is it a situational penalty flaw.  It is a character advancement limiter flaw, something that hinders or completely curtails a potential avenue of character growth.

The problem some people have with flaws like this, is that they will be taken in areas the player is already disinterested in exploring.  The neo-Luddite shaman is likelier to take simsense vertigo than the hacker.  The troll muscle is likelier to take uncouth than someone who wants to eventually add a face secondary specialty to their character.  Someone who takes the SURGE quality of impaired Attribute is likely to do it for a dump stat, where the maximum dropping from 6 to 5 won't matter at all to them.

My attitude is that a limitation is a limitation, and every flaw will either be one the player will enjoy roleplaying, or one chosen for synergy with the build.  So I don't get too worked up that the player whose Logic is limited to 5 won't be likely to raise it past 3 anyways.  If you feel differently, though, you are better off either lowering the point value of the flaw to what you think it's really worth, or not allowing it altogether.  Letting a player pick a flaw, then doing a bunch of passive-aggressive things like forcibly implanting cyberware into him, will only lead to a less fun game and upset players.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: baronspam on <07-17-11/1927:24>
I agree with Glyph on the Sensitive system issue.  An awakened character, particularly adepts, can gain a considerable advantage by slipping a little bioware into their builds.  Sensitive system is a declaration for the character to more or less stick to the narrow path of magic only.  No heavily augmented character in their right mind will ever have it, its far to limiting for someone who will have alot of 'ware implated.  If it is going to be in the game at all it is going to be seen on characters who are going to take little to no 'ware.  Basically the quality takes the option of dipping into a bit of augmentation off the table, or at least makes it much less attractive.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Kylen on <07-17-11/1935:24>
Iffn you don't mind my thoughts on Sensitive System:

I made a character (And I'm actually looking to pare it down, need help getting a point total so i can drop it down 50 points or so) that has this, and isn't awakened, or even cyber. I use it as part of a reason why he's not a hulked out street sam, or cocooned rigger instead of the smuggler he is. His body just straight up doesn't like augmentation, so the character's philosophy runs in tangent with that. Sure, it's gonna suck for him when he first gets his arm or leg blown off, and he loses that double essence to be useful again, but that'll be his choice. Or maybe he'll make the choice to live with out that limb and become more effective that way, helping make it a little more story worthy to see this character even LOOKING at a body shop.

Just the views of a player with a character that (currently) has the trait.
Title: Re: First character from a new player. (400bp)
Post by: Glyph on <07-17-11/1945:06>
@baronspam: adepts aren't actually that affected by sensitive system, since it only applies to cyberware.  Most augmented adepts get bioware such as muscle toner or synaptic boosters.  Some GMs house rule that it affects both, though.

@kylen: yeah, you're giving yourself a real challenge.  Shadowrun's transhumanist themes are reflected in a ruleset that gives you lots of incredibly cheap, easy boosts from using magic or augmentations.  Completely mundane characters are at a disadvantage, and can often be overshadowed by magical or augmented characters.  If you don't have any competition for your particular niche, though, you might be all right.