Shadowrun

Catalyst Game Labs => Official Announcements => Topic started by: JM_Hardy on (00:11:00/06-12-11)

Title: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: JM_Hardy on (00:11:00/06-12-11)
Okay, here's the thing. We have a plan. A secret plan. I've mentioned a little bit of it in another thread, but not the full details, because, you know, it's a secret plan. But one thing I can tell you is that the secret plan involves us doing a fair amount of work on some gear-oriented PDF products. And since we're working on them and stuff, we figure, why not release them when they're done? Which is a rather roundabout way of saying that close on the heels of Unfriendly Skies comes Gun Heaven, and new PDF book on sale now (Battleshop (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2799), DriveThruRPG (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=92357)) that is full of, you guessed it, guns. Here are the details:


A Gat in the Hand Means the World by the Tail

Look, we all know that there are plenty of runs that go best when you don’t fire a shot. But we also know how foolish you’d be to go out without your trusted sidearm, because you never know when things are going to go south. Or when you’re going to be hired simply because you’re the person who’s got the right weapons for the job.

If you’re looking for a new weapon to add to your arsenal, Gun Heaven is the place to go. Featuring thirty-two guns—complete with descriptions, information on their use, game statistics, and full-color illustrations of each item—Gun Heaven collects older weapons and newer designs, ranging from the SIG P298 hold-out pistol, with its slim-line design, to the massive Ogre Hammer and its devastating punch. Get caught up on the predecessors of the legendary Ares Predator IV, or check out one of the most recent offerings from Onotari Arms, the assault-rifle/shotgun combo Xfactor III.

Gun Heaven will help any team of runners pack out the way they want, while also providing opportunities to make a few nuyen by finding and selling pristine versions of older models to collectors. Gun Heaven is for use with Shadowrun, Twentieth Anniversary Edition.


Jason H.

P.S. The above post contains a bastardized quote from my favorite movie. Props to the first person to ID it.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (00:40:52/06-12-11)
And there goes my budget again!   :'(

EDIT:  Posted my review of the e-book on the other forum (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=35147&view=findpost&p=1078464).  Long post short, I like.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: savaze on (02:59:30/06-12-11)
Is there a planned hard copy I can pick up?! Right when I had my expanded firearms rules finalized a new gun book is released...
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Medicineman on (04:17:42/06-12-11)
 ::)
not only did CGL open that damned Can of Worms (Calibres in SR ! )  ::)
You rubbed exactly the right ones Nose right on Top of it.
I Guarantee that the next 10 Pages in the Gaming  Den will be Rants and Sarcastic comments about the Caliber of SR Weapons and how Wrong this is.
I can't express how dissapointed I am from CGL that they did this (ImO) big mistake with the Calibre

with a disapointed Dance
medicineman
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Critias on (05:04:34/06-12-11)
I Guarantee that the next 10 Pages in the Gaming  Den will be Rants and Sarcastic comments about the Caliber of SR Weapons and how Wrong this is.
To be particularly blunt about it, "so what?"

No game company -- or company at all -- can put out products while prancing around on their tippy-toes worried about what the smallest, bitterest, little faction of disenfranchised fans is going to think.  I'm not crazy about the addition of calibers in Shadowrun either, but spending official company time worrying about what TGD crowd will think about a book is spending official company time spinning your wheels for no good reason.  There are a group of people out there who will at best offer up backhanded compliments about the quality of new work, and at worst call the writers foot fetishists, neo-Nazis, and scabs...why on Earth are they worth catering to?

It's not like various calibers are given in-depth rules or something, it's just mentioned -- almost in passing -- that "this gun with a high damage code has a higher caliber than that gun with a low damage code," which is absolutely nothing new.  The word gets tossed around a few times and used in vague relation to the damage and/or range of a weapon, and that's really about it.  It's not introducing new rules or crunch in terms of caliber, it's just used as a perfectly logical descriptor of various firearms.

Fans like guns.  Shadowrun has more guns now, instead of just more drones and tanks and ships and stuff.  It's my favorite of our recent gear-splat e-books, simply because it's got some awesome artwork, and it's the one most likely to be usable in your average Shadowrun game.  It's the old-school "information, artwork, stats, and shadowtalk" format that fans have been screaming for for years, it's a good looking book, and it gives your average shadowrunner some new toys.

The sarcasm and rants of TGD are moot points.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Medicineman on (05:26:58/06-12-11)
To be particularly blunt about it, "so what?"
of Course You`re right concerning the Gamers Den
I let them Rant there because it makes them Happy
(They're gonna Rant anyway ;) )
I' m more concerned with the German Forums that I visit and where I'm Moderator of

Fans like guns.
They do(me too),Yes and thats why there is gonna be lots of diskussions that are followed by Flames (I'm shure of it.
It happened before ,Its gonna happen again , it's almost a Nature's Law )

It's the old-school "information, artwork, stats, and shadowtalk" format that fans have been screaming for for years, it's a good looking book, and it gives your average shadowrunner some new toys.
Awww   :D common ,admit it  ;)
its Gun Pron but thats cool  8)
Good Looking ? the laser Pointer of the Walther P99 is bad Photoshopping.  Hey If I can see that ,anybody can see that  ;D

it's just used as a perfectly logical descriptor of various firearms.
Seee thats what I'm talking about It ....just tickles me to answer and give You my opinion about light Pistols and 40 mm Calibre.40 Ammo . But thats exactly what I DON'T want :D

with a Dance out of the Moot
Medicineman

 
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Critias on (05:37:04/06-12-11)
Seee thats what I'm talking about It ....just tickles me to answer and give You my opinion about light Pistols and 40 mm Calibre. But thats exactly what I DON'T want :D
I can't help but feel like I'm missing something.  I don't know if it's because I'm sleepy and a wee bit hung over, or because we're just managing to miscommunicate, or if I'm looking at the wrong draft of Gun Heaven while I'm talking to you (I guess there's always the off chance something changed and I missed a revision).

Where are you seeing a "40 mm calibre" (which is a series of numbers that don't make any sense) light pistol?  Or ANY real numbers like that, really?  All I really spot are a few write-ups of guns occasionally mentioning "such and such is a heavy caliber version of the so-and-so," or "For those who need to pack a little more punch, the high caliber blah-blah-blah is a great choice," and that sort of thing.

I just don't see what there is to complain about, in terms of the "calibers" being "introduced" into Shadowrun, here.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Medicineman on (05:40:44/06-12-11)
sorry 40mm calibre was wrong (Blame it on my bad English  :-[ )
My only Information is the sample PDF from Drivethrough
http://watermark.drivethrustuff.com/pdf_previews/92357-sample.pdf

the Picture of the Walther P 99 says
Semi automatic
12 Rounds .40 cal Magazine

YahtaHey
Medicineman
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Critias on (06:09:29/06-12-11)
That's not on all of 'em, and (IMHO) it's just the artist trying to add a little more detail/flavor to some of the guns.  Most of them just say "10 round magazine" or what-have-you, and others (as they should) say "9mm or .45 magazine" and stuff like that.  There's nothing in there for rules that suddenly set each damage code as a certain caliber, or alter the armor penetration based on the caliber given in the artwork, or anything like that.

It's really just a little extra detail being added to the artwork (to have certain features pointed out, the way they do in real-life gun rags), it's not a new layer of complexity being added to the rules, or anything like that.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: hobgoblin on (11:18:27/06-12-11)
Ah, so it is in the art. No big woop then, as the art is never authoritative imo.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on (11:41:57/06-12-11)
Love the product, thank you SR staff for it. I am not sure why simple fluff given in some pictures seems to get SR fans on edge lol, to me I like they included it. It means nothing for the rules, and if I try to add real world logic to a game that has magic, and crazy level of tech like Cybermancy then I might as well be stomping down sand in a dust storm! Again thank you for the product, I see some more stuff in the works that I love as well. Good day runners
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mäx on (13:15:52/06-12-11)
Ah, so it is in the art. No big woop then, as the art is never authoritative imo.
Yeh pretty much only response to that whining about the art is:
Art in a PDF supplement has mistakes in it, news at eleven.

It's not like every single one of these books has art whit mistakes, oh wait yes they do.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (13:23:45/06-12-11)
Having had to try and steer artists towards what you want while in person and talking to them, showing them examples from IRL, and other such things, I know how hard it can be to get them what you actually want.

Doing it remotely by e-mail?  Complete Horrorshow.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (13:26:06/06-12-11)
One problem I just noticed, once again we have the fluff of cased versus caseless ammo with no crunch to go behind it.  :(
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: hobgoblin on (13:36:08/06-12-11)
What crunch would be needed exactly? if all models can be had in cased or caseless models, and the ammo cost the same in either form it becomes a issue of group taste more then game mechanics.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (13:40:55/06-12-11)
True, but outright stating which uses cased, which doesn't would be nice.  There's a major difference.

Cased ammo is more robust and tough.  Caseless is cleaner (for the firearm) and doesn't leave brass all over the place.

Ah well, the rules do state that weapons either take one or the other (Kind of like the same firearm using a different caliber, I guess.), so there you go.  *Shrugs*  Just another thing that annoys me, like the lack of calibers.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mystic on (19:56:53/06-12-11)
*Sigh* Why did this have to come out NOW instead of AFTER Origins when I'll like...HAVE MONEY???

As long as the "caliber" thing dosen't really change the rules, and is more of an abstract fluff device, I don't see the problem. There is a reason that damge codes in all RPGs are somewhat abstract because how does one REALLY and exactly quantify how much a long sword versus a short or bastard sword does?

Yes, there are differences between in real life between the damge a 9mm and a .45 can do, but when it comes to a .40 and .45? Yes, you can pull out all sorts of stats and figures but in my experience, when it comes down to it you hit the right spot and anyone is going down be it 9mm, .38, .40, .45ACP.

Me, Im not going to let myself get caught up in it and try to enjoy the product for what it is....MORE GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (19:59:06/06-12-11)
The Caliber thing does not change any rules, it's just there for once.  I'm happy enough for even that much.  :P  Hell, I'm the only one in my group that knows that a "Nine" isn't a type of pistol!

Also, congrats to CGL:  It's #1 on Drive-Thru RPG!  Considering that it just came out last night, that's some big props!
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: hobgoblin on (20:56:05/06-12-11)
As long as the "caliber" thing dosen't really change the rules, and is more of an abstract fluff device, I don't see the problem.
The only place it shows up is in the art, from what i understand. And when was the last time the art was part of the rules?
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Bull on (22:50:42/06-12-11)
Also, congrats to CGL:  It's #1 on Drive-Thru RPG!  Considering that it just came out last night, that's some big props!

Heh.  While I'm glad we're kicking ass with these PDFs, I'm just a touch sad we can't manage to get Missions to stay in the top 10 longer. :)

(Spread the word, spread the love folks. :))
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mystic on (00:32:45/06-13-11)
As long as the "caliber" thing dosen't really change the rules, and is more of an abstract fluff device, I don't see the problem.
The only place it shows up is in the art, from what i understand. And when was the last time the art was part of the rules?

Art in RPGs are like speed limit signs...great to look at, but ultimately don't mean much.

 ;)
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (00:45:29/06-13-11)
Don't be so sure.  I've taken a number of pieces of art from Deadlands and turned them into adventures.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Faelan on (09:44:37/06-13-11)
On the caseless ammunition front I can testify that most people who are pressing for pure caseless ammunition do not use firearms regularly or are not thinking the problem through all the way.  The principal reason you get a jam or malfunction in a firearm is 1) Improper technique leading to poor recoil which result in a short extraction cycle and a case stuck in the gun, 2) dirt jammed in the firearm causing once again poor extraction of the case and a jam, or 3) the powder is bad/weak and once again we get a jam due to failure to extract.  It seems like you could eliminate all three by removing cased ammo, however there is a problem.  1&2 never happen if you know what you are doing, and engage in simple maintenance.  #3 will happen, even if it is caseless, and in that instance you may not know it, and more importantly you may have a projectile jammed in the barrel, which is a wonderful side effect of such a round.  This instance is the reason I don't see full caseless as a practical or even desirable goal because if you fire with a blocked barrel it has the possibility of a complete and catastrophic failure occurring.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mystic on (11:01:48/06-13-11)
...This instance is the reason I don't see full caseless as a practical or even desirable goal because if you fire with a blocked barrel it has the possibility of a complete and catastrophic failure occurring.

And great fodder for a catastrophic glitch.  :)
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (11:50:40/06-13-11)
Hey Bull, Page 14!  Lower-Right Hand Corner!

Looks like your Cyberdeck just might be workable after all!   ;D
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Bull on (12:51:22/06-13-11)
Heh.  Of course it is.  Bull ain't no fool ;)
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (14:57:20/06-13-11)
Heh.  Of course it is.  Bull ain't no fool ;)
OK, correction:  His cyberdeck can now work as we have Crunch to deal with it.  :P

Wonder what it's stats are.  Or is it gutted and a bunch of CommLinks set up as a Cluster?  (And this should probably go in another thread, but it is a nice addition to the rules that I like.  Another reason to get the book!).

Plus side on art:  Great Vintage firearms!  Down side on art:  Um...  Yeah, the new firearms, not so good.  :P
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on (15:30:08/06-13-11)
Best I can get you from Datahaven Bull's stats:

Commlink: Custom Built, all programs and attributes rating 6 or better, carried inside an armored Alpha Allegiance Cyberdeck casing.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mäx on (15:56:26/06-13-11)
On the caseless ammunition front I can testify that most people who are pressing for pure caseless ammunition do not use firearms regularly or are not thinking the problem through all the way.
Or we're just going with the assumption that those problems have been worked-out, as caseless ammo has been the standard in the sixth world for 20+ years already.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Faelan on (16:32:58/06-13-11)
Some problems will always require a visual cue and inspection to ensure proper functioning.  Caseless was assumed to be the standard in past editions due to 1) a lot of caseless research at the time and people claiming it was going to make cased weapons obsolete, 2) a major lack of firearms knowledge and use by the writers, 3) caseless ammo is cool and edgy and 4) compounded error.

You will never get past issue number three unless you have someway of sensing a projectile stuck in the barrel.  Any method is likely electronic and therefore subject to failure.  Making perfectly reliable ammo is also not going to happen, so no matter what you do this particular type of malfunction can and will occur and a cased variant will likely have a visual cue to suggest further inspection, where as a caseless round will not.  The first time a soldier has his gun explode in his hands without any warning is when that particular ammunition or even weapon would lose favor.

The fact that we can assume stable caseless rounds, ones which do not degrade appreciably in air, and function properly, does not resolve in any way the lack of a visual cue for the most severe of firearms malfunctions.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Critias on (17:04:27/06-13-11)
None of which changes the fact that caseless ammo has been the in-universe norm for the better part of two decades.  If the realism (or lack thereof) matters to you so much, instead of shooting it down, figure it out.  If you had SR-era technology, how would you make it work?  Because whatever your answer, someone obviously has.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (17:23:31/06-13-11)
IIRC, it's been stated that a form of Lacquered Plastic Explosives is used as propellant for caseless ammo in Shadowrun...
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Nath on (17:28:38/06-13-11)
Or we're just going with the assumption that those problems have been worked-out, as caseless ammo has been the standard in the sixth world for 20+ years already.
Not 20 years. According to Fields of Fire (second edition), which is set in 2054, post-2050 weapons were available in caseless version with +50% increase on the price and +1 on Availability, implying cased was still the standard at that point. Only later did the Third Edition rulebook, set in 2060, say caseless ammo were now more common.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Faelan on (17:33:39/06-13-11)
None of which changes the fact that caseless ammo has been the in-universe norm for the better part of two decades.  If the realism (or lack thereof) matters to you so much, instead of shooting it down, figure it out.  If you had SR-era technology, how would you make it work?  Because whatever your answer, someone obviously has.

Why is it that the second you suggest something in game may not be entirely sensible, people come out of the wood work to shoot you down?  Seriously all I said is that in the case of a projectile stuck in a barrel a caseless round was the less reliable choice.  There is no technological answer unless we have disassembler nanobots remove it, or an electronic sensor to tell you it is stuck in the barrel, both options rely on electronic solutions, and are therefore liable to being compromised in the right environment.  My point is that in spite of lower weight, in spite of being more reliable for a beginner, a top end professional is going to actually prefer cased ammunition because of its more robust nature.  It can be abused, it is only prone to failures you can prevent or see, you don't have to trust your tech.

I was in no way suggesting the book was garbage or that caseless is not the predominantly used ammo in the game universe, my point was that old reliable has a reason to still be around.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (17:35:50/06-13-11)
Hey, there used to be caseless revolvers.

They were called "Cap And Ball".  :P  OK, sure, the percussion cap dropped out and away...  Hopefully...
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mäx on (18:08:16/06-13-11)
Or we're just going with the assumption that those problems have been worked-out, as caseless ammo has been the standard in the sixth world for 20+ years already.
Not 20 years. According to Fields of Fire (second edition), which is set in 2054, post-2050 weapons were available in caseless version with +50% increase on the price and +1 on Availability, implying cased was still the standard at that point. Only later did the Third Edition rulebook, set in 2060, say caseless ammo were now more common.
From the first edition corebook
Quote
Firearms
Firearms are primarily slug-throwers. The principles have not changed much over the years.
Many weapons offer two versions,for standard loads or for caseless ammunition,
though the latter is far more common in the 2050.
The same text with few alterations can be found in all corebooks, they just update the year to 2060 in third and 2070 in fourth.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (23:45:36/06-13-11)
And thus we go back to my complaints about lack of calibers (Which would also include their definition of being Cased or Caseless.).

For my own games, I've just ruled that Caseless is the standard for every firearm except for grenade launchers (Which use a similar system to the Russian GP-25 or GP-30 system), and revolvers (Which I just can't wrap my head around the cylinders being able to hold onto the caseless round.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Bull on (23:58:11/06-13-11)
Best I can get you from Datahaven Bull's stats:

Commlink: Custom Built, all programs and attributes rating 6 or better, carried inside an armored Alpha Allegiance Cyberdeck casing.

Bull got updated a little bit in Missions.  He'll be getting updated/upgraded again (and statted out a little more fully) in the near future. :)

His stats as they appear in SRM 04-00: Back In Business (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=87673)

MacCallister

MacCallister is a former shadowrunner, an older ork and a “decker not a hacker, fraggit” in his own words. He ran the shadows for over a decade before retiring, and recently returned to Seattle to start a new career as a fixer, still carries his beat up ancient cyberdeck (With a modern bleeding edge commlink mounted inside the case), and he peppers his speech with out of date slang like “drek,” “frag,” and “hoop.” He’s confident and good natured.

He started operating as a fixer in the early part of 2072, and got involved with the copycat Mayan Cutter that showed up during the summer of ’72 when his daughter, Rebecca MacCallister, was one of the copycat’s victims. He has a ton of contacts in the shadow community and uses them to great eff ect. He’s been acting as the front man for the Metahuman rights groups for a couple months now, working toward legitimatizing the Ork Underground.

B A R S C I L W Edg Ess Init IP Arm CM
8 4 5 (8) 6 5 4 6 (9) 4 6 3.5 12 4 8/6 12

Active Skills: Cracking Group 6, Electronics Group 4, Etiquette 4, First Aid 3, Negotiation 5, Perception 4, Pistols (Revolvers) 5 (7),
Knowledge Skills: 20th Century Sci-Fi 4, Computer Hardware 5, Computer Soft ware 5, Corporate Security 3, Insect Spirits 6, Matrix Security 4, Seattle Area 3, Police Procedures 3, Seattle Street Gangs 2, Seattle Politics 2, Shadowrunner Lore 6
Augmentations: Datajack x2, Cerebral Booster 3, Encephelon 2, Math SPU, Mnemonic Enhancer 3, Synaptic Booster 3, Simsense Booster, Smartlink (all Betaware)
Commlink: Custom Built, all programs and attributes rating 6 or better. Firewall 8, numerous pieces of black IC. Also includes empathy soft ware at rating 6, though he rarely uses it against runners.
Gear: armor jacket, 2 Ruger Super Warhawks w/ 4 speed loaders and APDS ammo, AR contacts (w/ thermo, image link, vision mag, vision enhancement 3)
Weapons: Ruger Super Warhawk [Heavy Pistol, 6P, -6, 0 RC, 6(c), APDS ammo, custom grip, biometric sensor]
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (00:01:21/06-14-11)
And here I was expecting to have to wait until the book full of characters came out for an updated Bull!   ;D

Capping his Daughter, worst mistake that wanna-be ever made.  Is that why he's on the JackPoint as well?
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Bull on (01:02:34/06-14-11)
In part.  It got him riled up enough to get back in the biz full time.  Which meant it was time to finally accept FJ's offer to join Jackpoint.

Bull
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: savaze on (02:15:34/06-14-11)
And thus we go back to my complaints about lack of calibers (Which would also include their definition of being Cased or Caseless.).

For my own games, I've just ruled that Caseless is the standard for every firearm except for grenade launchers (Which use a similar system to the Russian GP-25 or GP-30 system), and revolvers (Which I just can't wrap my head around the cylinders being able to hold onto the caseless round.
I would guess that caseless would have to be shaped something between a cylinder and a cone, forgive my geometry but...uh, to keep chambered rounds from sliding out of place or the chamber is slightly larger than the barrel to accommodate the bullet encased in propellant (with cylinders having a smaller rim on the business end).

EDIT: Changed a significant typo...
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: hobgoblin on (02:17:15/06-14-11)
Firewall 8? Must be a pain to maintain.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (02:27:30/06-14-11)
I would guess that caseless would have to be shaped something between a cylinder and a cone, forgive my geometry but...uh, to keep chambered rounds from sliding out of place or the chamber is slightly larger than the bullet to accommodate the bullet encased in propellant (with cylinders having a smaller rim on the business end).
Revolver ammunition uses what's called "Rimmed" cases, where the bottom of the brass comes out a bit in at the, well, rim.  This is what holds the ammo in place.  Rimless ammo is used by Automatic weapons (Semi- and full-automatic.).

There are a few rare revolvers that use rimless ammo, but they require half-moon and full-moon clips (The correct usage of the term for once, YAY!), which hold three or six rounds respectively.

Even rarer is revolvers that can camber and use any 9mm/.38 caliber ammunition.  ...  ...  OK, it's one revolver, no longer produced, called the Medusa Model 47 Revolver.  They successfully tested and claimed that it'd work with 25 different types of ammunition, with 117 possible types that could be used (Some of which are museum pieces.  Yes, ammo so rare it's in a museum!).

Caseless ammunition, being just a square block, doesn't have a rim of any kind, so wouldn't be held by a cylinder.  Unless it's Cap and Ball, then the percussion cap fits on the nipple.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Bull on (03:27:31/06-14-11)
Firewall 8? Must be a pain to maintain.

Eh.  He's an NPC.  WHat else does he have to do during downtime? ;)
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Bull on (03:28:33/06-14-11)
You know CanRay, you keep using words like "rimmed" and "nipple" and you may get warning from the mods ;)

Bull
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: savaze on (06:53:28/06-14-11)
Revolver ammunition uses what's called "Rimmed" cases, where the bottom of the brass comes out a bit in at the, well, rim.  This is what holds the ammo in place.  Rimless ammo is used by Automatic weapons (Semi- and full-automatic.).

There are a few rare revolvers that use rimless ammo, but they require half-moon and full-moon clips (The correct usage of the term for once, YAY!), which hold three or six rounds respectively.

Even rarer is revolvers that can camber and use any 9mm/.38 caliber ammunition.  ...  ...  OK, it's one revolver, no longer produced, called the Medusa Model 47 Revolver.  They successfully tested and claimed that it'd work with 25 different types of ammunition, with 117 possible types that could be used (Some of which are museum pieces.  Yes, ammo so rare it's in a museum!).

Caseless ammunition, being just a square block, doesn't have a rim of any kind, so wouldn't be held by a cylinder.  Unless it's Cap and Ball, then the percussion cap fits on the nipple.
I'm very familiar with revolvers I owned a S&W model 10 for a long time and have played with several others (and am currently in the market for a new wheel-gun, if I ever make up my mind on what I want). It's true that rimmed ammo is still the favorite in revolvers and Russian weapons, but it's old tech ...and moon clips (are used for rimmed or otherwise) come in sizes for 5-10 (someone told me 12 once but I've never seen a modern revolver that has that kind of capacity), with partials for 2-4... They're very effective speed loaders that many favor over the clunky multi-step alternative loaders.

The Medusa was more of an improvement on extraction and it addressed a problem that didn't exist (I hear some companies are still using the tech for single calibers), and it went the way of revolvers chambered in .700 NE. There's really only one man who's made improvements on the platform in over a century (that worked correctly and addresses active issues) and he's no longer alive. I'm very reluctant to say that there won't be major improvements on the platform by 2070. I know right now there's a push to partially seal and redirect escaping gases from the cylinder, front and back, making them safer to fire and easier to use in the dark (not talking about silenced revolvers). Hopefully we'll see that in the next two years?! The limited ammo is already being addressed with eight smoking rounds of .357 (that's as far as it'll go unless you want a .22), equaling the 1911 Coonan, and being more accurate than a steel 1911 by almost a minute without $2k invested to accurize it. Still it's only half the capacity of the plastic guns, but they're an additional whole minute less accurate. Can ya tell I like revolvers? I had a 2nd gen Glock 17 in 9mm (and several others through the years) that I went through police academy with, but it just wasn't the same as my six-shooter.

Not all caseless cartridges are square... I mentioned before in another thread (and seemingly had an argument) about how there are several varieties/shapes of caseless. Besides, roundish makes for less malfunctions when feeding and KISS still applies in combat.

If caseless is the only major advancement in firearms by 2070 then they would have figured out how to make it work in all the popular platforms (they had a hundred years to get it right), though 20 years to make the change means there's still a lot of "classic" guns floating around in cased ammo (nearly 200 years worth) that people grew up with and might prefer...
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (10:52:25/06-14-11)
You know CanRay, you keep using words like "rimmed" and "nipple" and you may get warning from the mods ;)

Bull
Apparently firearms designers of the day were lonely, lonely men.  :P
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: hobgoblin on (11:10:09/06-14-11)
Bah, it is more that the english language have developed a impressive number of euphemisms for certain body parts and related activities. I blame the puritans for that "masterpiece"...
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: flatlyne2001 on (14:42:16/06-15-11)
Thank you for putting in all the old Ares Predators, talk about adding some nice nostalgia.

Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (14:53:26/06-15-11)
Thank you for putting in all the old Ares Predators, talk about adding some nice nostalgia.
Missing the Ares III.  :P

But, yes, it is a very nice and appreciated touch!  It goes well with my Ares Predator T-Shirt.  ;D
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: flatlyne2001 on (15:10:33/06-15-11)
Missing the Ares III.  :P

But, yes, it is a very nice and appreciated touch!  It goes well with my Ares Predator T-Shirt.  ;D

III I'm missing my I :)

Yeah I really need one of those :D
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: wylie on (15:58:36/06-17-11)
with the vintage quality 7 stuff,  I want to design a character who either had spent the lat 20 years or so in prison, or one who ran the shadows only a little while in the '50s and now must get back into the shadows

the fun of seeing a hacker try to take over the smartlink and can't speak the language  :)
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (17:01:10/06-17-11)
with the vintage quality 7 stuff,  I want to design a character who either had spent the lat 20 years or so in prison...
One of my currently working up character concepts is this.

20-years, no chance for parole for killing the axe murderer he found next to the bodies of his hacked up parents and who was walking towards his eight-year old sister.  That's what happens when you're an Elf and you pull an all-human jury...
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: KarmaInferno on (10:50:29/06-18-11)
It is nice seeing the old RoboCop art for the Predator.

I am guessing CGl isn't worried about litigation over it anymore.

Reproducing designs found in different media has always been a kinda legal grey area anyhow, especially if the designs are tweaked.



-k
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: bigity on (12:10:30/06-18-11)
Just ask FASA about Harmany Gold.  They will say, at least tweak them for pete's sake. :)

Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Bull on (13:02:16/06-18-11)
It is nice seeing the old RoboCop art for the Predator.

I am guessing CGl isn't worried about litigation over it anymore.

Reproducing designs found in different media has always been a kinda legal grey area anyhow, especially if the designs are tweaked.



-k

The gun used in RObocop is based on a real gun, physically at least.  There's never been a problem using that design.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mystic on (13:44:29/06-18-11)
Beretta 93R, to be exact. Gotta love wikis. Nice to see they could find a GOOD use for a Beretta, other than paperweight.

 ;)

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Robocop
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (14:16:04/06-18-11)
The gun used in RObocop is based on a real gun, physically at least.  There's never been a problem using that design.
A few firearms, actually.

The base weapon (The prop gun) is a Beretta M93R, with a lot of additions such as an extended barrel and oversized trigger guard for the gloves the actor was wearing.  The sights were based off of one design which I can't remember right now, the underbelly weight is from the Medusa Revolver, and a few other odds and ends.  It also is compensated to give it a really cool muzzle effect.

And the name?  "Auto-9".  Not exactly a sellable title, which makes me think it never got out of the prototype stages and was considered too expensive for mass production.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: wylie on (18:46:24/06-19-11)
with the vintage quality 7 stuff,  I want to design a character who either had spent the lat 20 years or so in prison...
One of my currently working up character concepts is this.

20-years, no chance for parole for killing the axe murderer he found next to the bodies of his hacked up parents and who was walking towards his eight-year old sister.  That's what happens when you're an Elf and you pull an all-human jury...

after watching freejack, the idea of a bodyguard wrongly imprison for 20 years is a thought, too
the systm would keep him alive, but not improve on any of his hardware

Just ask FASA about Harmany Gold.  They will say, at least tweak them for pete's sake. :)



that is an understatement...:) I enjoy products from both companies ( Battletech & Robotech), but if they could have found a way to work together.......
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mystic on (00:31:06/06-20-11)
The gun used in RObocop is based on a real gun, physically at least.  There's never been a problem using that design.
A few firearms, actually.

The base weapon (The prop gun) is a Beretta M93R, with a lot of additions such as an extended barrel and oversized trigger guard for the gloves the actor was wearing.  The sights were based off of one design which I can't remember right now, the underbelly weight is from the Medusa Revolver, and a few other odds and ends.  It also is compensated to give it a really cool muzzle effect.

And the name?  "Auto-9".  Not exactly a sellable title, which makes me think it never got out of the prototype stages and was considered too expensive for mass production.

Rear sight on the "Auto-9" looks a lot like the sight on my old S&W 5906. I had it changed because I honestly hated them. But then, S&W had a lot of their weapons with sights like that, so who knows. Hollywood loves to mix and match firearms and parts.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (01:50:28/06-20-11)
Or out-and-out body kits that contain an entire firearm.

The M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens is a M1 Thompson SMG with a under-mounted SPAS-12 Shotgun for the "Underbelly Grenade Launcher".  According to the movie, it fires 10mm caseless Explosive Light-Armour Piercing Ammunition.  I described it to one person as "Like Ex-Lax, only delivered at supersonic speeds and explosively."

In the future war scenes in Terminator 2:  Judgement Day, the Terminators use Calico M-960 SMGs with body kits surrounding the magazine and giving what appears to be a much larger overbarrel muzzle.

That's just a few off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mystic on (04:37:21/06-20-11)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Blade (in the first movie) use a modified MAC-10 with a funky box "thing" over the stub of a barrel? In the movie it seemed to be a sort of sound suppressor, but I would bet that's more of editing room magic. Not sure what he used in Blade 2 and 3, but never really liked those...Time to hit up IMFDB again.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (11:37:47/06-20-11)
He did have said Modified MAC-10.  And carried it in Blade 2 in case he had to put Whistler down, as it was the weapon that had been used on him before.

Wesley Snipes has a lot to say about the weapon designs in the commentary which make a lot of sense.  The security system of the sword was actually his idea, apparently.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mystic on (23:44:05/06-20-11)
Nifty. Haven't heard the commentary, but sounds like something he would do. Wonder how many who play SR tried something similar.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (23:48:14/06-20-11)
Nifty. Haven't heard the commentary, but sounds like something he would do. Wonder how many who play SR tried something similar.
I know I put a lot of thought into the equipment and modifications thereof for my characters.  But I'm a weapon and vehicle nut that likes to think I'm a writer, so that might have something to do with it.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mystic on (00:39:37/06-21-11)
Don't feel bad. I go so far as to note where my equipment is located on "my person" becasue if I don't it bugs me. I wonder how many people think about placement of spare mags in relation to if they are a left, or right handed shooter? Or where to put your comlink (radio) so it dosen't get shot? Can I reach any special equipment with ease (ie restraints)? Or where to put that monosword so it won't get in the way of drawing your sidearm, etc etc? Having had to deal with many of the said problems above in RL (aside from the sword, Sheriff and Chief would likely frown on that), it makes sense to me; our I could just be an obsessive-compulsive.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (00:46:29/06-21-11)
Don't know, Mystic?  Ever serve in the military?  I seen that habit of things from some people who have served, due to the fact that it's what they had to do for combat situations.

I never have myself, but the extensiveness given to a simple suit of armour in one of my stories borders on insane, and also incorporates where the equipment is and how it's laid out.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Crimsondude on (01:00:09/06-21-11)
One of the interesting pieces in the BTS pieces for Collateral was that Mark Ruffalo did a lot of prep for his character with plainclothes/undercover officers. One of the interesting things that he incorporated that you don't see in the movie (and something I stole for one of my PCs) was slipping spare mags into his belt loops.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mystic on (01:19:11/06-21-11)
Yeah, equipment placement can be key and that was something drilled into me at the academy. But mags in the loops...not something I would do, unless he is carrying a small caliber weapon, and maybe not even then. But then I use double stack .45 mags when on duty. Don't know how good retention they would be, or how strong the loops would be. But for plainclothes..*shrugs*

BUUUT... nothing worse than when you have to wrestle with a "fine upstanding citizen" and not being able to grab your cuffs because you were dumb enough to not have them accessable by BOTH hands, or when your cheap radio mike-cord keeps getting wrapped around your baton, OR having your mag-pouch dig into your thigh constantly becasue you placed it wrong. Glad I learned about most of those lessons in training and not when dealing with "fine upstanding citizens".

Speaking of, does Gun Haven have any more accessories?

Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (01:42:10/06-21-11)
Ah, Police Officer, close enough, Mystic.  Same reasons, too, as you point out.

No new accessories.  But it does have rules for using older smartgun systems that are not wireless capable.  (You need a datacable.  Of which you can get cheap from the Unwired book, or a "Specialized" cable that's ten times the price.  But there might be a reason for that price, as your radio cable comment points out and I hadn't thought of before.).

I've also chatted/posted/whatever to a EMT (He might have been a full Paramedic) who had previously decided to carry a knife with him on the back of his belt for cutting through seatbelts until he had his back to a crazy drunk in a hospital ER and realized how dangerous the situation could have become.  I pointed him towards a Safety Knife/Car Emergency Tool that doesn't appear to be on the market any longer (I'll look more later.).

I found a smaller, keychain version that I got for my father, a truck driver who had a number of times been the first (and only) help for people trapped in cars on the side of a long stretch of lonely Canadian Highway.  Luckily, he never needed it.

Stay safe on those streets, OK?
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Crimsondude on (01:48:12/06-21-11)
Hey, QQ then.

I've been in DC recently visiting old friends and such (God I miss that city), so could I get your professional opinion on what is the g-d point of half the cops just standing around in tactical Kevlar vests with drop holsters and ... cargo shorts. I know it's hot and humid in DC, but I cannot fathom for even a second why these cops (who just mill around talking to each other in groups of three or four) are out there for any reason other than to scare the squares.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (01:55:14/06-21-11)
Scaring the squares (Who are the majority, and vote.) is how they show that "Something is being done.".

I'm still trying to figure out bicycle cops, myself.  Although the cute ones being in bike shorts...  I better stop right there.  :P  I remember what the Centaur from the PCC said about "Pony Rides".  ;)  They make even less sense here because of the harsh winters.  (Harsh by Canadian standards, people!).

Mounted Police (Not RCMP, Mounted Local Police, BTW), on the other hand, are also quite effective.  My first experience with them was my first month in the city, where they were patrolling along a major roadway and park area (Don't ask.  Winnipeg is weird.), and saw the malcontents and other ne'erdowells just bleed away into the darkish alleyways.  The height combined with the size and weight of the horses to an urban person was quite a scene and intimidating.  I have yet to see them again, however.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Bull on (02:11:24/06-21-11)
I know I put a lot of thought into the equipment and modifications thereof for my characters.  But I'm a weapon and vehicle nut that likes to think I'm a writer, so that might have something to do with it.

Whereas I'm pretty much the exact opposite.  My characters carry a handful of pretty simple weapon loadouts, based on their personality.  Ruger Warhawk, Ares Predator, or Salavette Guardian with either Ex-Ex or APDS rounds.  All Smartlinked with custom grip, and that's about it.  If they edge more twoard the pacifism scale, an Ares Squirt with Gamma Scope.  For heavier weapons, almost always an Ares Alpha.  And for really heavy weapons, Vindicator Minigun and/or Panther Assault Cannon.

My one exception is Rush, my Missions character.  But he was a bit of a twink with two-gun fu and a pair of Lonestar Ruger Thunderbolts tricked out to give him every bit of recoil comp he could beg, borrow, or steal :)
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (02:49:10/06-21-11)
I've also chatted/posted/whatever to a EMT (He might have been a full Paramedic) who had previously decided to carry a knife with him on the back of his belt for cutting through seatbelts until he had his back to a crazy drunk in a hospital ER and realized how dangerous the situation could have become.  I pointed him towards a Safety Knife/Car Emergency Tool that doesn't appear to be on the market any longer (I'll look more later.).
Can't sleep so I found my original source for the safety knife in question and looked up the company that made it.  Appears it's not on the market any longer.  Pity.

The one I got for my father is apparently called "Res-Q-Me (http://www.resqme.com/)" now (I think it had a different name back when I got it.).  ThinkGeek has an updated model for sale called the ""BodyGard 5-in-1 Emergency Tool (http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/car/8e0c/#tabs)".  Too many bells and whistles on that one for my liking, but the additions would be good for someone civilian in an urban environment.  ...  Which describes me, actually.

I know I put a lot of thought into the equipment and modifications thereof for my characters.  But I'm a weapon and vehicle nut that likes to think I'm a writer, so that might have something to do with it.
Whereas I'm pretty much the exact opposite.  My characters carry a handful of pretty simple weapon loadouts, based on their personality.  Ruger Warhawk, Ares Predator, or Salavette Guardian with either Ex-Ex or APDS rounds.  All Smartlinked with custom grip, and that's about it.  If they edge more twoard the pacifism scale, an Ares Squirt with Gamma Scope.  For heavier weapons, almost always an Ares Alpha.  And for really heavy weapons, Vindicator Minigun and/or Panther Assault Cannon.

My one exception is Rush, my Missions character.  But he was a bit of a twink with two-gun fu and a pair of Lonestar Ruger Thunderbolts tricked out to give him every bit of recoil comp he could beg, borrow, or steal :)
I'm not deriding the idea of simple loadouts.  Especially if you get a group that handles things the same way, it allows for crossloading and exchange of equipment in combat without extra need for training or additional extras (Such as different magazines or ammunition for different weapons.).  There's a reason NATO and the Warsaw Pact standardized a number of concepts for military firearms.

For myself, thinking of the background of a character, a vehicle and/or weapon is a personal choice made from a variety of options down the line.  If they upgrade to a different firearm, it's likely due to extensive testing and getting a better "Feel" of the weapon, as well as other options.  I also typically pick cool looking weapons, particularly intimidating designs (I loved the Ares Predator I for that, BTW.).

I could go into greater detail, but I've already had one group of people tell me to shut the hell up.  :P  Unless someone here is willing to take the flak and get me going...
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Crimsondude on (03:01:12/06-21-11)
I like that Utili-Key-6. However, whoever buys a titanium spork should have it jammed in their eye.

Scaring the squares (Who are the majority, and vote.) is how they show that "Something is being done.".
Logically, I know you're right. But at the same time I was so frustrated (even though this was the status quo when I graduated and left DC in 2002) I was bitching about it the whole time. That and the fact that there really is a Capitol Hill Exclusion Zone now. Chalk another one up for Shadowrun's prescience.

Quote
Mounted Police (Not RCMP, Mounted Local Police, BTW), on the other hand, are also quite effective.  My first experience with them was my first month in the city, where they were patrolling along a major roadway and park area (Don't ask.  Winnipeg is weird.), and saw the malcontents and other ne'erdowells just bleed away into the darkish alleyways.  The height combined with the size and weight of the horses to an urban person was quite a scene and intimidating.  I have yet to see them again, however.
Oh, they're great for crowd control from what I understand for that very reason.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (03:29:03/06-21-11)
Scaring the squares (Who are the majority, and vote.) is how they show that "Something is being done.".
Logically, I know you're right. But at the same time I was so frustrated (even though this was the status quo when I graduated and left DC in 2002) I was bitching about it the whole time. That and the fact that there really is a Capitol Hill Exclusion Zone now. Chalk another one up for Shadowrun's prescience.
Quote
Never said I liked the issue either.  But, let's face it, most people are fraggin' sheep, they hear about new technology being put into place and see police shoes on the ground and think things are being done while in reality it's just smoke, mirrors, and varnish.

And I should probably shut up now as I'm overtired and likely to get my foot all the way to the knee in my mouth.  *Deletes rant about microwave ovens and being fondled at the airports*
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Crimsondude on (03:42:46/06-21-11)
I just did the scanner. But I didn't appreciate the TSA rifling through my comics and the book on ancient Persian warfare when I came back from New York.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (10:17:42/06-21-11)
I just did the scanner. But I didn't appreciate the TSA rifling through my comics and the book on ancient Persian warfare when I came back from New York.
I didn't appreciate being treated like a gun runner when I showed them the unconcealed and unloaded dollar-store cap gun at the US Border.  :P
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mäx on (13:09:14/06-21-11)
Speaking of, does Gun Haven have any more accessories?
It has the red dot sight, rules wise it's same as laser sight(Doesn't actually say that those 2 dont stack), but IMO it's a lot more stylish option for most guns that aren't pistols ;)
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Valashar on (13:14:17/06-21-11)
Many of the weapons in Gun Haven list a powered slide mount as a standard modification, but the descriptions don't give a slot capacity for them. Is this an oversight, or can it be taken as read that a powered slide mount as standard can hold the normal 6 slots worth allowed a weapon?
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Raventrickster on (00:23:38/06-22-11)
@Mystic and CanRay

I'm the same way with gear choice and placement.  I've done it with 3 separate characters now that I've created for our current campaign, one of whom has yet to even see play other than as an off camera NPC.  To be fair, for all three it makes sense.  My main character is a stealth focused street sam and I figured that the best way to store all his gear was in pouches and a backpack, all of which use separate padded sections for his gear and attach to his chameleon suit with gecko tape (and are chameleon coated themselves)  The layout was one that made sense to me without ever being able to try it physically.  The second one was a pixie that had some gear to carry so I had to figure out somehow where she'd put it on a run, and the last one was a former corpsec high threat response troop that again did the pouches thing (or not, depending on his armour at the time) and had all of his weapons gecko gripped to just be able to stick them to his armour rather than using a holster that might get in the way.  (He also has heavy milspec and an HMG.... but mostly wouldn't be using them)

Of course I've also gone with the sloppy route with some characters, generally when that would be the personality for that particular character (My samurai themed ganger for example).  But even then I generally have a decent idea about where there gear is on the body.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (10:24:21/06-22-11)
Trying to remember where I read the rule about:  "When in the dark, always be sure you can find your pants and your rifle by touch alone."...
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Mystic on (18:29:07/07-07-11)
With such good advice, the source has likely been long forgotten as it has disseminated throughout so many other sources and has become somewhat of a universal truth.

Or something like that.

 8)
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Digital_Viking on (20:19:00/07-07-11)
With such good advice, the source has likely been long forgotten as it has disseminated throughout so many other sources and has become somewhat of a universal truth.

Or something like that.

 8)
It had to be a Marine NCO  ;)
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (21:05:20/07-07-11)
Yeah, but which Marine Corps?   ;D
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Charybdis on (21:22:16/07-07-11)
Yeah, but which Marine Corps?   ;D
Definitely not an OZ.  Who needs pants anyway?
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Digital_Viking on (00:07:53/07-08-11)
Yeah, but which Marine Corps?   ;D

Doesn't matter - Marine > all, nation is immaterial.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (15:46:03/07-08-11)
Yeah, but which Marine Corps?   ;D
Doesn't matter - Marine > all, nation is immaterial.
True that.

I know I read it years ago and it clicked with me.  I wouldn't put it past some Roman NCO who made sure that the command was, "When in the dark, always be sure you can find your leather skirt and your spear by touch alone."
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Charybdis on (19:30:57/07-10-11)
True that.

I know I read it years ago and it clicked with me.  I wouldn't put it past some Roman NCO who made sure that the command was, "When in the dark, always be sure you can find your leather skirt and your spear by touch alone."
Geez I hope you're not talking in Euphamisms  :o

Finding a 'skirt' and a 'spear' in the dark sounds like the opening line to a Vivid movie....  :-X
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (19:36:40/07-10-11)
Well, considering how some of the Greek and Roman Militaries were set up...  *Wink-Wink-Nudge-Nudge*
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Crimsondude on (20:25:59/07-10-11)
And that, folks, is why 300 (book and movie) is hilarious.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Charybdis on (20:29:48/07-10-11)
And that, folks, is why 300 (book and movie) is hilarious.
Indeed.... however the lines between myth, folklore, historical fact and literary license are crossed, re-interpreted and outright ignored on a regular basis in cinema.

But that's off-topic.

Back to bang-bang-gun-guns... I still think an Underbarrel shotgun plus dual-30-clips is pure gold :)

Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (20:54:57/07-10-11)
Just Drum Mag the AR.  And use a shotgun that's magazine (Ugh, "Clip") fed and mod it for Drums as well.  ;D
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Raventrickster on (01:34:29/07-11-11)
Back to bang-bang-gun-guns... I still think an Underbarrel shotgun plus dual-30-clips is pure gold :)

If it was only smartlinked by default it would be perfect.  Ahh well, in the short term I can stick a top mount Smartgun System on it and replace my (pre game) Nitama Optiimum II.  I'll have to drop the melee hardening for it to keep the cost down though.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: CanRay on (03:27:38/07-11-11)
One of the few things I liked about War!

The Ares Beta Assault Rifle.
Title: Re: Guns, guns, and more guns in Gun Heaven--out now!
Post by: Sichr on (05:29:51/07-11-11)
As Im not native english, im trying to keep my posts as short as possible to avouid misunderstandings...well, I end up with posts that are saying exactly what I need to say,well, they can be, IMO, considered rude by some people who are telling the same things more diplomatic way...

So, something to smite me for...

Yesterday Ive finaly found some time to read throught this PDF. Nice piece of nostalgia, maybe better title for if should be: "This Old Gun"...welll I understand that there is a need to bring previous editions stuff up to SRA standards..
Brings one Shadowtalk quote from SSC to my mind:

Now we have more light ammo to waste against body armor...

(translating back to english from czech translation, so sorry for differences from original)

An updated version:

"Now we have more obsolette light ammo to waste against body armor..."

Im really looking for the book that bring really 2073 Up-to-Date stuff.

/Troll off  ;)

I understand that this books should work as an Arsenal DLC... And Arsenal was awesome. You won`t believe how happy I was when I found errata for Gauss Rifle and finally found the argument why this gun is so great- halving AP before applying mod is much better than what was originaly stated in the sourcebook...and my combat type players finaly got something they wanted to lay their hands on. But this were details, that book as a whole was brilliant...so I hope that in the future some futuristic sourcebook will be pushing that Sci-Fi feeling further, so we dont need to create GerontoRunner characters to enjoy the "new" stuff