Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Petal on <05-30-11/0912:13>
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So I was looking through the forums for a thread like this, because I was wondering everyone's take on the topic.
Do you like romance in your games? Whether it be between an NPC and a PC, or two PCs?
I find the PC/PC may complicate things at the table, especially if the group itself has a couple in it. My group has 1 - 3 girls at the table at any given time, I'm the only one that is always there. But the NPC/PC romance holds the fear, for me, that the NPC is killed.
I'm really interested to hear everyone Else's takes, or experiences with this.
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It happens - never worried me. It can be a motivation for characters. The most powerful motivators I've found: money, love and power.
Money (treasure) is very simplistic. If you want to add complexity to your games you hit the other two and I think love is the most complex of them.
Love, (not necessarily romance) can be the most powerful. During the last session, the group temporarily suspended a paying gig to rescue one of their adopted orphans and were ready to do so in a suicide mission. However, they did think through the situation and come up with an unorthodox methodl
Don't be afraid of it - think of it as a challenge:)
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Starting my latest campaign I encouraged the players to make relationships of all kind with both other PC:s and with NPC:s. Ended up with a really tight crew of PC:s, with plenty of people who can get into trouble to make their lives interesting. They also spent a lot of time defining these NPC:s, so I got a lot to work with in the GM department as well. There is lots of love, some of it true, some of it new, some of it gay, some of it very much unanswered. (The fact that everyone seems to have some kind of ork-fetish is funny as well.)
Next session will be centred on the group trying to intercept a prison-transport carrying a brother of one of the PC:s. They are all very much agreeing on the fact that the brother probably deserves it, but the parents are already old (orks) and probably won´t live long enough to see their son again if he goes to prison. So they´re pretty much doing it out of love for the parents.
Best thing you can do with relations is "PC-NPC-PC-triangles", a technique from Apocalypse World. When playing action-centred games like Shadowrun all the PC:s in a group tend to have the same opinion on any given NPC. If you can give them fundamentally different relations with NPC:s, then both you and your players are in for a treat, making every dealing with those NPC:s a lot more dynamic!
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The majority of my games have been predominately male. Most guys don't want romance at the table (especially if it means role-playing with the male GM across from them!). Men tend to want action and puzzle solving and guy-stuff RPing.
Now, with more women in the group, then romance is on the table. However, since I am inexperienced in RPing romance (and may possibly have some mild social autism), it would have to be approached very carefully.
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I don't object to the idea of romance coming up in a game, but in practice if you took a look around the table that the chunky, semi-washed, cheeto munching dweebs that I usually game with, the last thing you want to watch is them try to get emotional over an imaginary npc, especially if that npc is voiced by me. Thank you, no, pass. Lets get back to the security on the Evo lab.
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Hee, I can understand it, Baron. I don't GM, and the GM is my husband, so me getting emotional over an NPC he voices isn't weird. However one of our other players is often flirted with my many woman because of pheromones. Its hilarious.
Off topic: We're all in our 20s and 30s, so we're switched to having a dinner with each of us bringing a course. Though we are not adverse to sodas and cheddar and sour cream chips.
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Our group has been all male for about a decade, though we have female PCs every now and then. Way back then we had a romance between my wife's PC and my GMPC, though it was background flavor text for the most part. Nowadays the closest we get is when various male PCs offer the female elf face some cash for some fun (it doesn't help that she works as a waitress at a titty bar for her day job).
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Gotta get that high Loyalty Rating from that contact somehow. A loving relationship is the perfect way.
Also, an excellent way to get an Enemy: Lover's Father or Enemy: Crazy Ex.
If the last doesn't seem too frightening, well, you've never had a crazy Ex. Or seen "The Blues Brothers".
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I think romance/romantic relationships worked/work better on SR MUXes, where you can at least pretend the female characters are played by females.
Even then folks tend to flock around the 'confirmed' girl players.
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I think it takes a mature group players to approach romance inside of any game, mostly because romance is a very genuine emotion to express to anyone person much less the group of dudes I think most of us play with. That said I don't think many men want to open themselves that way to their gaming buddies, less they face mockery. It doesn't help doing romance with a Male GM when you, yourself are male, no matter who you or they are portaying, gets AWKWARD FAST. (<thusly my need for a mature group.)
As for my opinion, I like seeing it in game. It can set an atmosphere for social roleplaying just as fast the team getting ambushed can set a combat atmosphere. It can add intrigue and depth to a slew of different settings, atmospheres, even people, be they PC's or NPC's.
Good topic petal. +1
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I don't object to the idea of romance coming up in a game, but in practice if you took a look around the table that the chunky, semi-washed, cheeto munching dweebs that I usually game with, the last thing you want to watch is them try to get emotional over an imaginary npc, especially if that npc is voiced by me. Thank you, no, pass. Lets get back to the security on the Evo lab.
It was so much easier to do this online. You don't have to look your friend in the eye when you're writing, well, crappy romance. Plus the written record made enjoying other peoples' slashfic possible. Though the writers didn't quite enjoy it as much as the rest of us.
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It just hit me that everyone immediately jumped to the standard "Male-Female" connection of romance in a game, when Shadowrun has confirmed for decades (IRL and Game) that Homosexuality is one of an accepted norm for relationships now.
Which would, of course, lead to other types of awkwardness with some groups. :P
Now, those Bisexual Sluts, they're still vilified and hated. Unless it's a hot chick, then it's OK. >:(
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I try to encourage the development of relationships in my game. I wouldn't push anybody into an uncomfortable situation. I am satisfied with a character having a girlfriend, boyfriend, wife, husband, changeling fetish, etc..... and just acting in a manner that his character would toward his significant other is fine. and saying I go home to my wife we have a relationship on the rocks is fine enough. I try not to spend too much time on those details. If i want to make something interesting I know I have players that have strong relationships and would do the "in character" thing. We don't need to have long in character romantic talks between the 2 of us. Even if my wife played a character in my campaign I wouldn't subject the rest of my players to that.
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We have everything represented in game and some uniqueness in RL so anything goes. Everyone is open minded which I haven't many gamers who aren't.
Of all things, one of their little hometown missions was to solve a case of gay bashing along the lines of graffiti and harassment at a low pay rate. They really got into it.
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All of my characters that I create I have a Kinsey Scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale) for:
Jon "Money" Johnson is a 3. He's also heavily monogamous so he does *NOT* fit the "Bisexual Slut" stereotype. He's also still getting over his wife's death, so relationships aren't big for him right now.
Nas is a 1 (Bordering on 0), but due to psychological trauma. He used to be a 4. He's also the only one of my characters who has a relationship going right now, with his boyfriend moving in with him recently.
John Q. Public (AKA: The Suit, The Accountant From Hell) is an X. Yes, he's that bland.
Pup the Dog Shaman is a 5. And loves him some Lesbian Shows. (He's a dog of a man in a lot of ways.).
Mile-High Mike is a 6, and is slight squicked out by homosexual partners and public displays of affection, but isn't a hater or anything. He just looks away.
And I've probably gone into TMI areas now...
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I really like to emphasize the personal relationships of any character that figure in my games, and romance is usually a strong point.
But since I've been playing Shadowrun (not a lot of time, I admit) I find it a more and more distant point... My two current characters almost have no way of being romanticaly portrayed (Chakan, my Incan shaman-hacker would have to find someone so spiritual-centered as he for a relationship to develop; Fractal, the guerilla-artist is so hedonist that he has difficult telling his relations to human beings and to his pets...).
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I am also of the opinion that as a rule, romance is never discouraged in-character. Somethimes, things just happen and yes, it can be a good motivator/plotpoint/GM fodder....er scratch that last one. And yes, most of my groups have been male dominated (as most of us game to "get away" for a bit) and we tend to handle any romance, especially PC-NPC in somewhat abstract terms; usually in a "the next day" type of way. The one time in my gaming history we 1) had a female player and 2) tried to play out the "romance" thing, it ended badly as sadly, this female player was the living embodiment of "the female manipulator" and caused a lot of chaos. Worse, she was the former GF of one party member, and current GF of the GM...but that is a different story. I'm just glad I was able to find another group.
But as far as character development goes, it can be a good thing. Case in point, in my current Pathfinder game, my ranger ended up hooking up with the main NPC from the Massacare at Hook Mountain module. I mentioned a few times that myself and the NPC talked, both being rangers, and next thing I know, at the end of the adventure, I'm a daddy to be! YIKES! Ah well, my God, Old Deadeye would approve as he is all about family.
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I am also of the opinion that as a rule, romance is never discouraged in-character. Somethimes, things just happen and yes, it can be a good motivator/plotpoint/GM fodder....er scratch that last one. And yes, most of my groups have been male dominated (as most of us game to "get away" for a bit) and we tend to handle any romance, especially PC-NPC in somewhat abstract terms; usually in a "the next day" type of way. The one time in my gaming history we 1) had a female player and 2) tried to play out the "romance" thing, it ended badly as sadly, this female player was the living embodiment of "the female manipulator" and caused a lot of chaos. Worse, she was the former GF of one party member, and current GF of the GM...but that is a different story. I'm just glad I was able to find another group.
But as far as character development goes, it can be a good thing. Case in point, in my current Pathfinder game, my ranger ended up hooking up with the main NPC from the Massacare at Hook Mountain module. I mentioned a few times that myself and the NPC talked, both being rangers, and next thing I know, at the end of the adventure, I'm a daddy to be! YIKES! Ah well, my God, Old Deadeye would approve as he is all about family.
I agree with you on all points. I often shy away from trying to get more females into my group, because some of my friends are manipulative.
But also I had a PC-PC relationship with someone in my group and we had to stop role playing those characters due to the fact that I get too into my character's feelings.
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Whoever said it earlier had it dead on--it is far easier to do romantic shenanigans in text than it is in person. Our group is somewhere around 60-40 male/female depending on who shows up, but almost always there is at least one girl(I do play lots!), plus 3 others.
However, since we're all middle-aged, and lifestyles set, it is just awkward to do face to face. I've found it's much easier to flirt with the GM pc's, and even the guys handle flirting with the male GM's face chicka better than they do flirting with, say, the new mom cuddling her baby.
That said, sure, it has a place in the game. Our physad has a half-serious, half-not, affair with one of his contacts, and we joke about what her current loyalty is before each game.
It did feel odd hearing folks wouldn't want female players because of it though. We(our group, anyway) spend far more time hashing out legwork, and plotting intricate methods to get the run done, and what we're making for potluck next game, than we ever ever ever do regarding romance. Maybe because no ones 'looking' for a new bf, and except for a married couple, no one's dating each other?
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Whoever said it earlier had it dead on--it is far easier to do romantic shenanigans in text than it is in person. Our group is somewhere around 60-40 male/female depending on who shows up, but almost always there is at least one girl(I do play lots!), plus 3 others.
However, since we're all middle-aged, and lifestyles set, it is just awkward to do face to face. I've found it's much easier to flirt with the GM pc's, and even the guys handle flirting with the male GM's face chicka better than they do flirting with, say, the new mom cuddling her baby.
That said, sure, it has a place in the game. Our physad has a half-serious, half-not, affair with one of his contacts, and we joke about what her current loyalty is before each game.
It did feel odd hearing folks wouldn't want female players because of it though. We(our group, anyway) spend far more time hashing out legwork, and plotting intricate methods to get the run done, and what we're making for potluck next game, than we ever ever ever do regarding romance. Maybe because no ones 'looking' for a new bf, and except for a married couple, no one's dating each other?
One of my friends is always looking for a new BF, even when she's not single, rofl.
But as someone who has played both, I have no issue talking romance with people at the table. Albeit, its because the characters that aren't interested are played by my brother or someone else who does that(can't talk romance with me/GM's betrothed). So its the other party usually, I have no issue since i get SO into the characters, but that itself brings up other issues. Attachment to fictional characters.
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I've never really been comfortable with it. Even online, though that is less embarrassment about being emotional, and more that it really hammers home that I'm a terrible writer.
It's another one of those things, like roleplaying in general, that I really like but really can't do or understand properly.
That, and I probably don't understand love. I think I might have formatted it to make room for more Shadowrun, but I know I ended up losing the backups :-[. Anyone know where I can torrent or DL a new copy?
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It all comes down to what the GM and the rest of the game table are there for. If folks want fully realized, deeply three-dimensional characters that are going to spend table-time on interpersonal relationships and romance and all that, more power to 'em (I've played my fair share of those sorts of games, hell, it's how I met Mrs. Crit). If folks see Shadowrun primarily as a means of escapism, with awesome movie star kung-fu hero characters that are normally too busy slingin' dice and shootin' dudes in the head, well, that's a perfectly valid gaming style, too.
There's no right or wrong answer to the romance-in-gaming question, it all just depends on what the rest of your gamers are interested in.
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I didn't read the whole topic cause I'm quite sleepy... However! Yes there's and there was Romance in my Stories. It was between PCs and NPCs. It was always quite "Real" I mean no absurb or weird situations. I tend to abuse such random (Random as I didn't plan it!) events to make wonderfull weak points for my Players (Yes I'm bad).
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That's what scares me, but my GM doesn't always kill off our loved ones, especially if they become a dependent.
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considering half my RPers are female, I have fun with this.
My current cadre is a streampunk themed medical magi, a elven pornomancer, a human changling with hands for feet and prehensile tail, a pixie stealth adept, and a gunslinger/hacker.
The groups Shepard (street name: Sonny Barger) recently retired after getting hooked back up with his elven GF, who is one of those rare elves with the pearl-coloured skin, silver hair, and blue eyes. She's also a Survivor of Yomi and has a bad case of PTSD regarding Japanese males (think 'comfort woman') and he has to keep an eye on her or she starts getting twitchy. She is otherwise very kinda and nice to people.
The ladies gravitated to her like a little sister needing help and in spite of Sonny's decidedly rough edges and embodying the trope 'Good Is NOT Nice', felt that he'd be the best one to protect her. He's also got a rep as 'The Liberator of Yomi' as he was one of the first on the ground after the Japanese started pulling out of Yomi Island to hit the intel files on the local guards and staff, give a bit of payback as they left, and funnel the information to certain groups who would have a few bones to pick with certain IJA & IJN people.
I use them as the 'normal couple' in the background as NPC's to give the game a sense of continuity and somewhat normalcy for the players, who tend to go on the screwball ops. Which the players have commented they actually kinda like
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I misspoke earlier when I said it hadn't happened in years. One exalted campaign I ran had a PC falling in love with, marrying, and starting a kingdom alongside one of the Fae. It was caused by her glamour, not real love, and the player knew that. But the PC didn't, and the game was more fun because of it.
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Rats, wish I'd thought of "Love? What sourcebook is that in?" earlier. :-[
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That's what scares me, but my GM doesn't always kill off our loved ones, especially if they become a dependent.
So many other fun things to do with a thing like a loved one than simply kill them. ;D
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Never kill off a PC's loved one. Let them do it themselves.
For instance, in the last session the street sam (who is looking for his mother) found his aunt instead. Unfortunately she was heavily sedated inside a toxic medical facility that was working on awakening in utero children and toxically corrupting them. They were there to destroy the place and all infected individuals. Her baby had already been infected so he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. (un)fortunately for him the decision got taken away from him when the enemy mage knocked him out and his aunt was killed a minute later when the team's bomb tore through the place.
Fun times. :)
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Not cyberpunk, but Discworld's Night Watch series.
Sir Samuel Vimes and his son, Sam. The anguish that he goes through worrying about his family is something you want to aim for.
Use it as a low bar, and try to raise it.
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So imagine everyone in the Sixth World is Carcer?
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If a PC gives me a background with their family and all, I NEVER use it as a checklist of who to kill because I appreciate the fact that said PC took the time to write a 3D background for my game. They get extra points and if mom is an accountant they have some help running their finances (with limits of course)
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So imagine everyone in the Sixth World is Carcer?
I was thinking the overly traditional dwarves in Thud! actually. See, they made it into his house...
Of course, that's when having a Battle Butler is handy. Still, the emotional response is exactly what you're aiming at.
The really frightening part of that part of the story is... How much of this thought process is Vimes, and how much is The Summoning Dark that lurks inside of him.
If you can get your players working up such a froth, you know you've nailed the situation right on the head. ;D
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Gotta get that high Loyalty Rating from that contact somehow. A loving relationship is the perfect way.
Also, an excellent way to get an Enemy: Lover's Father or Enemy: Crazy Ex.
If the last doesn't seem too frightening, well, you've never had a crazy Ex. Or seen "The Blues Brothers".
You get a +1 for quoting the Blues Brothers, and sexy crazy Carrie Fisher with a flamethrower + rocket launcher + fully automoatic support machinegun.
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Romance in a game can be tricky, tacky, gross (as in cheap 70's porn-style discription), or something absolutely unique and memorable.
In my Conan game, I had three players. Two males, one female. The female had a female PC, and I had several NPCs (including one specific male NPC). When these two met, it was almost a blood-bath. And, as games progressed, they grew attached to each other, found out just how similar they were, and it was something that was absolutely beautiful to both witness and participate in. It was just the right quantity, and just the right time... Between savage sword battles and all (it WAS a Conan RPG, you know).
But, for that one unique "relationship"... There were dozens of other games (in which I was a player, not the DM) in which the romance was tacky, cheap, and forced. Females wanted to be with males, and vice versa. No real reason, no real long-term goal. Print a picture online, use that to describe whatever NPC of the moment, "oh hey that's hot, I'd hit that", describe cheesy and slightly gross making out session, they're an item, and that's that.
Cheap, ineffective, and lazy DMing.
Between players, it needs to be either mature players that are willing to take a second to think about how their PC would react, or people that know each other well enough to play the "romance" game out, even if it turns out to be a disaster.
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Oy. I don't know what background you are using, but the really dark one I'm using for the forum makes dark blue text an impossible-to-read-migraine-inducing horror. (Or maybe a Horror, it's that painful.)
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You get a +1 for quoting the Blues Brothers, and sexy crazy Carrie Fisher with a flamethrower + rocket launcher + fully automoatic support machinegun.
The Blues Brothers, the Ultimate Movie to demonstrate a Hooding Shadowrun using Rock 'n' Roll. (Well, it's father, The Blues.).
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Oy. I don't know what background you are using, but the really dark one I'm using for the forum makes dark blue text an impossible-to-read-migraine-inducing horror. (Or maybe a Horror, it's that painful.)
Mes excuses.
I will keep to the plain black font from now on, to keep from impossible-to-read-migraine-inducing horrors.
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It's come up, peripherally, in games I have been in. I have had the same "bunch of guys who are squicked out at getting too into roleplaying that stuff with another guy" thing happen. In face to face games, it has been there, but kind of glossed over for the most part. Kind of "Okay, Ronald the knight takes the bar maid upstairs to his room where they have a fun time, get a good cardiovascular workout, and learn new things. Meanwhile, Bruno the thief manages to find a fence who will buy the silver necklace and the two golden goblets." Forum games can get a bit more involved without being awkward, since it is more purely the characters interacting. They have still all been PG-13, though.
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I had romance come up in the SR game I used to play in. I think it helped that the GM was femme. My experience with male GMs is that they prefer to leave it alone, have any romantic interplay happen 'offscreen' as much as possible.
The SR romance I had was PC-NPC going from dating to serial dating to three separate rescues to exclusive relationship to pregnancy to childbirth - which my (male) character got to feel thanks to a magical link - to parenthood with post-natal depression to kidnapping and recovery of kids to death of NPC significant other and kids.
Oh yeah - and SURGE happened in there as well.
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Attachment to characters is important, but it's also important to remember that character is not you.
Stuff that happens in-game, even bad stuff, might be painful for the character, but makes for great roleplay fodder or the player.
Imagine you're writing a story. It'd be a pretty darn boring story if everything always went right for the protagonist, yah?
-k
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Imagine you're writing a story. It'd be a pretty darn boring story if everything always went right for the protagonist, yah?
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They're called "Mary Sue"s. :P
I've had a few people accuse my current written character of being that, but then they've gotten into his history and medication condition, and, yeah... I tend to abuse my characters.
A lot.
Hell, dropped a building on the first one I ever wrote about. Literally.
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Hell, dropped a building on the first one I ever wrote about. Literally.
Yeah, but that was so your next character could get her magical shoes...
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During the last session, the group temporarily suspended a paying gig to rescue one of their adopted orphans and were ready to do so in a suicide mission.
Orphans: burning them or saving them, you have to love them.
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Hell, dropped a building on the first one I ever wrote about. Literally.
Yeah, but that was so your next character could get her magical shoes...
Actually it explained the extensive cybernetic systems.
"DocWagon, get it. Get the Health Insurance that goes with it and check ALL of the electives. All of them."
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I think you just have to know your group.
In some instances it is absolutely not going to go over well, if you have a less mature player for example that wants to side track the entire run every time a pretty NPC flirts with him. Another instance is when players have a real world romance and bring it to the game, nothing wrong with it unless it detracts from the game and we have to sit and listen to your fantasy date instead of playing the game. Absolute worst situation is the GM and his wife/girl friend where they aren't considerate of the other players and carry one with their relationship at the table through NPCs. Especially uncomfortable if they are angry at each other.
But then again I think a good game group with a good GM it adds nothing but an extra dimension to the experience. I have seen basic strangers, but excellent role players, sit down at a table and become best friends or lovers, MOSTLY in game. Really adds a whole new level. NPCs can have the same effect where people are willing to do incredible things for Gwen J'star the extra friendly waitress at their favorite eatery then they wouldn't do for Armorer Loyalty 5/Connections 5.