Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Morg on <05-24-11/0145:22>

Title: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Morg on <05-24-11/0145:22>
Here are a few issues that concern me about Gyrojets.

Even thought  RL Gyrojets  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet) have been written off as a bad idea they can't be silenced and the are ineffective at close range. I have always found that shooting a mini rocket/missile at someone has a tremendous coolness factor so why not let them shine a little more.

Why is the only Gyrojet weapon a pistol there could be rifles as well and you could even implement the metal storm concept in them to give them a little more of a fire rate, or as a sniper rifle using transonic rounds

I have come to a sudden realization that the Seeker rounds for Gyrojets have been Phased out from SR3 to SR4A could they be resurrected?

as Mini Rockets you could add more ammo types to it they already have Tracker, Taser, and Explosive(Plus rockets) rounds why not the equivalent to APDS, AV, Flare or apply some of the similar effects as explosives eg Chemical rockets, White Phosphorus rockets ect

What kind of weapon modifications can be made to a Gyrojet weapon?

are there any other Gyrojet lovers out there?
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Morg on <05-24-11/1234:20>
I know they exist in other formats already but lets make them Gyrojets

New Gyrojet Rockets             Damage        AP      Availability  Cost
  Gyrojet Ex Plus                     +1             -1            18F        250¥
  Gyrojet Omega(AV)               -            -4/-6          20F       270¥
  Gyrojet Flare                        -2             +2            8           50¥
  Gyrojet Seeker                 As Rocket   As Rocket     +2R      +500¥
  Gyrojet White Phosphorus*    -/4P         -half          14F        260¥
*=White Phosphorus Gyrojet will not receive the +1 DV under water nor will it burn


Because Gyrojet rocket damage is primarily from its explosive charge I feel it should be resisted with impact
When used underwater all Gyrojets get +1 DV
New Gyrojet Weapons           Damage  AP   Mode      RC     Ammo     Availability   Cost
  FN-AALM Gyrojet SMG           6P     -1     SA/BF      2       20(c)         13F          1150¥
  FN-AALR Gyrojet Assault Rifle   7P     -2   SA/BF/FA  2       30(c)          14F         1300¥
  FN-AALG Gyrojet Rifle             9P     -2      SA        (1)      10(c)          16F          3500¥

Thoughts?
Title: More Gyrojet stuff
Post by: Morg on <05-24-11/1704:22>
Drone weapon               Damage   AP      Mod       RC     Ammo             Availability    cost
 MCT Kouu Suisei               7P       -2      BF/FA*      -      20(ml)x36             20F        9500¥

   The Kouu Suisei "Raining Comet" is a Gyrojet Gunpod is capable of amphibious deployment with incredible fire rates it uses Light Machinegun ranges because of its lack of moveing parts and muzzle loading design It can attain Hyper velocity Fire rates (See Hyper Velocity weapons pg 26 Arsenal)

Thoughts?
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Morg on <05-25-11/1215:31>
Continuing on DS (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=35017)
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <05-30-11/1049:28>
You could make a micro drone with some C-12 or a fragmentation grenade as its payload and sic it on someone.

BTW, the reason gyrojets were phased out was due to poor engineering and construction, and not due to a bad idea.  Take a gander at some old research and design specs.  (The silly thing had a hammer that struck the FRONT of the rocket and had to be physically moved out of the way by the rocket itself, robbing it of much of it's energy).
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: JoeNapalm on <06-02-11/1529:44>

Considering that there are now "smart bullets" under development, some of which use micro-gyros to help alter the trajectory of the bullet in flight, I'd wager that the gyrojet problems would be fairly easy to iron out with over 100 years of progress.

I would expect with increased orbital presence of warring Corps would urge development of such weapons, as long as they proved cheaper/more effective than energy based weapons or environmentally adapted conventional weapons.

Of course, they'd still likely be fairly useless at point-blank ranges.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: FastJack on <06-02-11/1639:28>
The fun part about mini-missiles is that, to properly adjust trajectory to a target and such, you need to have built in software and hardware to make those changes.

Which means they could be hacked. ;D

hee hee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyd_xliZM3U#t=2m23s)
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: JoeNapalm on <06-02-11/1701:23>
The fun part about mini-missiles is that, to properly adjust trajectory to a target and such, you need to have built in software and hardware to make those changes.

Which means they could be hacked. ;D

hee hee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyd_xliZM3U#t=2m23s)


Ah ha ha! And if they're using an IFF system...Friend / Foe bits, meet my good friend XOR!

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist


Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <06-02-11/2301:06>
Until they arm themselves, or are armed by the firer, they would be in autistic mode, most likely.  So no hacking until they are armed, and if they are in the air...weeell, good luck with that.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: JoeNapalm on <06-06-11/1712:55>

I'm thinking that the gun would communicate with a "smart" gyrojet round prior to it firing, in order to set parameters, transfer targeting and environmental data, etc.

Transmitting that data during flight would be problematic, at best - time constraints and jamming come to mind, though a "wireless wire-guided" Gyrojet would obviously have to be actively talking to the guncam.

If it can be communicated with, it can probably be hacked - heck, maybe even armed and detonated in the weapon.

And yes, I DO know I overthink this stuff.  ;)

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <06-07-11/1049:56>
Still hard to pull off.  Skinlink removes so many wireless avenues of attack it can cripple a hacker.  A fire-and-forget warhed would be preferred to one that required constant communication with the launcher, so there goes another.

Not to say that these circumstances will always occur.  There are, after all, still quite a few idiots out there who would ignore these kinds of things.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Rockopolis on <06-07-11/1234:40>
"But what if I shoot someone and them change my mind?"
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: CanRay on <06-07-11/1241:25>
"But what if I shoot someone and them change my mind?"
Wire-Guided systems are old technology, and still damned useful.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Kontact on <06-21-11/0350:48>
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjIyNjc4MTIzMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMjc2NDAzNA@@._V1._SX471_SY325_.jpg)

This guy knows what's up.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Morg on <06-22-11/1105:43>
are there any runners out there that use Gyrojet pistols?
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Morg on <03-22-12/1308:41>
Sorry about the Thread necro but I want to know if anyone has had any new thoughts on Gyrojets and I figured because there is some new faces the may want to take a look

Should a Gyrojet be able to receive the benefit of High-Power Mod if creating the rounds for it were possible?
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Valashar on <03-24-12/1206:46>
I'd rule that gyrojet rounds have to be upgraded as grenades/rockets/missiles instead of as normal balistics so no, high powered wouldn't work for them.

And to the previous poster oh, so long ago... yes. I've played a runner that used gyrojets in regular combat. It involved a lot of positioning and always modding my guns with bayonets. All my other characters tend to eventually get one as well, but only for specific environments such as space.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Morg on <03-25-12/0153:23>
I still have one nagging issue about Gyrojets, the wright up indicates that the rocket explodes on impact

Explosives like C12 get a tamping bonus underwater but EX and EX2 rounds don't. on top of that the Exotic skill needed to use a Gyrojet tells me that the rocket doesn't fly like a ballistic object (it might be training to counter missile scatter) It ends up feeling like more of a mini-missile

I feel to be truest to the fluff and the stats Gyrojets should be resisted by impact rather then ballistic or the +1DV underwater should be removed

what do you think
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: All4BigGuns on <03-25-12/0203:42>
I still have one nagging issue about Gyrojets, the wright up indicates that the rocket explodes on impact

Explosives like C12 get a tamping bonus underwater but EX and EX2 rounds don't. on top of that the Exotic skill needed to use a Gyrojet tells me that the rocket doesn't fly like a ballistic object (it might be training to counter missile scatter) It ends up feeling like more of a mini-missile

I feel to be truest to the fluff and the stats Gyrojets should be resisted by impact rather then ballistic or the +1DV underwater should be removed

what do you think

Maybe the gyrojet rounds act like small torpedoes underwater. That could explain the extra DV.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Morg on <03-25-12/0237:33>
So your saying it moves faster in a liquid medium then in air or space....(Screams Madly).....ok sure
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: All4BigGuns on <03-25-12/0245:05>
So your saying it moves faster in a liquid medium then in air or space....(Screams Madly).....ok sure

I'm just saying it's a possible explanation.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: All4BigGuns on <03-25-12/0426:43>
I'm just saying it's a possible explanation.

My runners will buy any other magical ammunition you have

Okay, this is kind of uncalled for. I give a possible explanation (identifying it as such), and you act like that in response? Perhaps I'll keep this in mind before I try helping you out with the next question you have.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Morg on <03-25-12/0436:43>
I thought I was being humorous but if it offends then I shall remove it. I know that sometimes I can be "donkey"
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Red on <03-25-12/0905:32>
I get where A4BG was coming from, if only because they would have more support in liquid. Then again, I'm a marksman, not an engineer.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: ArkangelWinter on <03-25-12/1401:40>
Some modern-day submarines, and all modern torpedoes, achieve higher speeds when totall submerged than when surfaced because their noses create an air bubble of less resistance ahead of them while their propulsion systems are more efficient with increased liquid resistance to push against
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Ajax on <03-25-12/1409:40>
How does a rocket-propelled anything work underwater?
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: All4BigGuns on <03-25-12/1415:03>
How does a rocket-propelled anything work underwater?

Well, if you think about it, it is possible to have a flame burn hot enough that water just evaporates right on contact so it doesn't have time to put it out. Heck, that's how underwater welding works (but is more dangerous because you have to do it just right otherwise you end up blowing yourself up because it doesn't just make steam, it separates the hydrogen and oxygen).
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: ArkangelWinter on <03-25-12/1426:20>
Also, you're assuming a fiery heat-blast to propel the ordinance. It could very well be relying simplying in a high pressure reaction that isnt dependent on a typical rocket-like tail flame
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Ajax on <03-25-12/1528:58>
Also, you're assuming a fiery heat-blast to propel the ordinance. It could very well be relying simplying in a high pressure reaction that isnt dependent on a typical rocket-like tail flame

I'm assuming that gryrojet based weapons work like, well, gyrojet based weapons. Gyrojets in the real worlf fired gyroscopically stabalized rockets called microjets. They were rockets, with all the associated laws of physics that rocketry requires.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: All4BigGuns on <03-25-12/1538:25>
Also, you're assuming a fiery heat-blast to propel the ordinance. It could very well be relying simplying in a high pressure reaction that isnt dependent on a typical rocket-like tail flame

I'm assuming that gryrojet based weapons work like, well, gyrojet based weapons. Gyrojets in the real worlf fired gyroscopically stabalized rockets called microjets. They were rockets, with all the associated laws of physics that rocketry requires.

You're also thinking too much in my opinion. It's a game, not a reality simulation.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Morg on <03-25-12/2351:43>
Some modern-day submarines, and all modern torpedoes, achieve higher speeds when totall submerged than when surfaced because their noses create an air bubble of less resistance ahead of them while their propulsion systems are more efficient with increased liquid resistance to push against

in both instances the torpedo and the sub is moving in water and not in air or vacuum, your just stating a point about fluid dynamics, but this isn't about reality it is about meta-reality and what that gives us is

Therefore the Gyrojets damage is explosive like a grenade and not fragmentary like EX so it should be resisted by impact like explosives are

any counter arguments?
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Stahlseele on <03-26-12/1741:10>
There were Gyro-Jet-Weapons in SR3, did they not make the cut in SR4?
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Morg on <03-26-12/2133:20>
There were Gyro-Jet-Weapons in SR3, did they not make the cut in SR4?

No the Gyrojet pistol is in arsenal but They dropped an ammo type.  I thought it could be improved a little maybe haveing a gyrojet rifle or SMG,,,
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: hobgoblin on <03-26-12/2155:52>
"But what if I shoot someone and them change my mind?"
Wire-Guided systems are old technology, and still damned useful.
and a pain to clean up, i have been told...
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Red on <03-27-12/0545:43>
"But what if I shoot someone and them change my mind?"
Wire-Guided systems are old technology, and still damned useful.
and a pain to clean up, i have been told...

That's for the janitor at the corporate lab to worry about. ;)
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: DoubleTap on <03-29-12/1900:32>
ummm there are plenty of smart weapons the recieve no out signals ones launched, besides trying to hack a missile flying at mach beejeezus, before it impacts?  I call BS.  Back to gryo jets, I would think that 100 years of development we could have a workable gryojet weapon.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <04-03-12/2359:48>
I don't recall exactly where or when I read it, but it may have been back in SR2.  However, what I vaguely remember is that the gyrojet pistol was primarily an underwater weapon -- and that what it fired were functionally ramjet rounds, using a water-reactive propulsive.

Then again, I might be mixing up games.
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Red on <04-04-12/0112:43>
Honestly, if you want mini-missiles, find some hive warheads for a Ballista back launcher and go to town. :)
Title: Re: No Mini-Missile Love
Post by: Morg on <04-04-12/0852:52>
Honestly, if you want mini-missiles, find some hive warheads for a Ballista back launcher and go to town. :)

I have always loved the Ballista. It's difficult to keep loaded sometimes.