Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: DOS Jacker on <05-19-11/1828:47>
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So, my group recently got into Shadowrun as a new game to divert us from our D&D Campaign. We recently got our hands on some SR3 Core books, and thought that a new system might clear our heads. Exams and all that "fun" stuff.
As the GM for said group, I'm having a hard time coming up with a feasible plot. My mind is definitely set into starting them out on a Courier mission, but that's where my mind is getting clouded. What happens between Points A & B escapes me; Commando Attack, Mugging, Police/Lone Star Blockade- the possibilities are overflowing my mind.
That, and the fact that beyond Point B, I've got no clue where to go from there... I guess I can simply say that I'm asking for Veteran GM advice.
Any help would be deeply appreciated.
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Grab the first adventure from one of the seasons of Missions (http://www.shadowrun4.com/missions/downloads/)or run Food Fight if you've got it. Either one will get your heads in the game and make the rules more familiar before you try to start a full blown campaign.
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Don't run it like a D&D Adventure. There are a thousand ways to get the job done. So, don't railroad your players into only doing the things you have planned. Wing it when you have to.
Questions you should ask yourself.
Why is the package going by Shadow-runner and not a professional courier service?
What so important about this package?
Who wants this package and why and what are they willing to do to get it and why?
What is the value of the package if the shadowrunners want to fence it and what are the consequences for doing that? Some one will be pissed the package never made it.
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Don't run it like a D&D Adventure. There are a thousand ways to get the job done. So, don't railroad your players into only doing the things you have planned. Wing it when you have to.
I think you're mistaking D&D with railroad. The two are not synonymous.
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Start mid-action. You team is hitting a "courier" truck for a Johnson. They realize it's not there and the corp has a drone up that gets good pics of them. Now they're on the run, plus a Johnson who didn't get his package he paid for and doesn't believe the
cannon fodder new runners didn't try and screw him.
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Starting in media res is risky, some players don't like it. However, some players LOVE beginning the game as they regain consciousness after being blown out of a transport plane.
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Well, all very good suggestions; I'll take them all into account.
However, since the players have yet to truly decide what they want their role to be (they literally just got them today), I'm going to hold off on the whole "We've-Been-Framed" plot. Though, starting mid-way like that does sound like it could be a nice hook.
And yes, "Railroading" and D&D are not synonymous. There are plenty of ways (though not nearly as many as SR) to get the Crawl done.
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Courier Run: I've used this kind of weird plot for newbs. They have to pick up a few pizzas from an Italian pizza place in a Mafia controlled part of town, keep them hot and not mushed and deliver them to someone in the ritzy part of town.
Behind the scenes: It really is a couple of pizzas but the yummiest ever - Italian. There's a hit because someone might mistake it for more precious goods. More hits if they decide to go through all the bad parts of town. A chance for them and their face to show composure in meeting some low level mafia and a rich CEO. A chance to see how some minor combat is run. Driving skills to avoid a tale and perception to even notice it. Some ingenuity to see if they used a thermal bag to keep the pizza hot.
It's a one night adventure that gets their feet wet.
Railroading in DnD - I haven't played a lot but every time I did, under various GMs, combat was the solution and the only solution. Don't know if that was meant but I would have to agree if it was.
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The SR4 Denver missions actually start off with a courier job, which introduces some of the recurring groups and characters the players will be dealing with in later jobs.
Even if not using it, a read through might give you some ideas.
(Did I mention they can be found for free on this website? Do I need to?)
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Railroading in DnD - I haven't played a lot but every time I did, under various GMs, combat was the solution and the only solution. Don't know if that was meant but I would have to agree if it was.
That's a common way to play, but not the only way. And its certainly not something the rules enforce or require. D&D can be as basic as repeated dungeon crawls or as in depth as Lord of the Rings. Combat is just the hammer in a GM's toolbelt. If every problem is a nail its on the GM's or the players' head, not the system's.
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Railroading in DnD - I haven't played a lot but every time I did, under various GMs, combat was the solution and the only solution. Don't know if that was meant but I would have to agree if it was.
That's a common way to play, but not the only way. And its certainly not something the rules enforce or require. D&D can be as basic as repeated dungeon crawls or as in depth as Lord of the Rings. Combat is just the hammer in a GM's toolbelt. If every problem is a nail its on the GM's or the players' head, not the system's.
D&D rewards are for slaughter (No slaughter, No experience) they may have changed this a little but not much. D&D is fun at times for exactly for what it is a hack and slash game. Shadowrun rewards role-playing and getting the job done (different mind set).
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My suggestion is, recognize the differences in Shadowrun (already explained by posters above) and design your games to reflect them. Your players may have "habits" from other systems that need to be broken. On the other hand, they may be doing exactly what they find most fun, so don't deny them that! After a few sessions, you should have a sense of it.
We're all familiar with the flexibility inherent in roleplaying games, so it seems strange to me that anyone would insist that D&D, Shadowrun, or any particular game has to be played a certain way.
I think there can be a tendency towards "kill things, get XPs and GPs" in D&D. There can also be a tendency to "Do Job, Get Paid" in Shadowrun. What motivates your players will determine the shape of your game.
I think the reason monster XP is detailed in the DMG has as much to do with the fact that it needs to be strictly defined to be balanced as anything else. I was always happy to hand out story and roleplaying XP every session or storyline, and those don't require the same structure.
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Railroading in DnD - I haven't played a lot but every time I did, under various GMs, combat was the solution and the only solution. Don't know if that was meant but I would have to agree if it was.
That's a common way to play, but not the only way. And its certainly not something the rules enforce or require. D&D can be as basic as repeated dungeon crawls or as in depth as Lord of the Rings. Combat is just the hammer in a GM's toolbelt. If every problem is a nail its on the GM's or the players' head, not the system's.
D&D rewards are for slaughter (No slaughter, No experience) they may have changed this a little but not much. D&D is fun at times for exactly for what it is a hack and slash game. Shadowrun rewards role-playing and getting the job done (different mind set).
To be honest, the books always discussed giving out XP as Story Awards in the books, but most players and GMs forget about this since published adventures always focused more on the combat.
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If you have your heart set on a courier run, let me give you an example of one I ran.
Mr. Johnson is hiring runners to intercept a package. Run is simple and straightforward: Pakage is arriving at SeaTac (or whatever local airport), disguised as a Blah. (in this case, it was a set of golfclubs containing a special item, but anything appropriate can be used). Package will be "escorted" by no less than five individuals of unknown origins and abilities. Your job is to secure the package and turn it over to Mr. Johnson after dealing with the escorts, and getting out of the airport.
Now, how they accomplish this depends on the runners. I have run this senerio twice and both teams have done it different ways. First team did it he hard way. Intercepting the escorts in the terminal, starting a firefight with the escorts, airport security, port authority, and Lone Star. Messy, but eventually getting the job done. Not exactly a rep builder, but hey.
Second team was a bit more subtle. They used a combinations of tracking by magic, drone, and even runners on foot until the escorts were out of the airport and in their limo. Rigger tracked limo, runners got in their personal rides and eventually intercepted the escorts just outside of Downtown Seattle. A decently placed ambush later with a brief, but intense firefight, and the runners were on their way to the meet with Johnson...just ahead of a Star reponse. Better pay off, and better rep.
Point is, set up your scenerio, come up with the main and possible opposition, and give them an objective and let them go. Let them come up with the plan and let them execute is as they see fit. Some may do it the hard way and fail, or others may come up with a different approach and do better. One runner on second team suggested trying to bribe the escorts by making them a "better offer". In this case, it wasn't likely, but I liked the different approach and gave one extra Karma later.
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Never forget just how dangerous a "Simple" courier run can be.
Look at Fallout: New Vegas.
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Never forget just how dangerous a "Simple" courier run can be.
Look at Fallout: New Vegas.
Man, that Courier was one good Shadowrunner, takes the job, gets shot in the head and buried in a shallow grave, and still goes after the chip with 4 other factions hunting it.
BTW, it's my personal belief that any player that takes Full Amnesia gets to wake up in a shallow grave with a bullet in her head.
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D&D rewards are for slaughter (No slaughter, No experience) they may have changed this a little but not much. D&D is fun at times for exactly for what it is a hack and slash game. Shadowrun rewards role-playing and getting the job done (different mind set).
Maybe it's because my D&D gm is awesome, but he gives us RPXP....if we decide to just hack and slash, he'll sometimes dock XP for it. YMMV as with all games though.
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Railroading in DnD - I haven't played a lot but every time I did, under various GMs, combat was the solution and the only solution. Don't know if that was meant but I would have to agree if it was.
That's a common way to play, but not the only way. And its certainly not something the rules enforce or require. D&D can be as basic as repeated dungeon crawls or as in depth as Lord of the Rings. Combat is just the hammer in a GM's toolbelt. If every problem is a nail its on the GM's or the players' head, not the system's.
D&D rewards are for slaughter (No slaughter, No experience) they may have changed this a little but not much. D&D is fun at times for exactly for what it is a hack and slash game. Shadowrun rewards role-playing and getting the job done (different mind set).
Clearly we have different experiences with both games, as SR can be about slaughter if you want it to and D&D can be about the opposite. But as long as you're having fun, I don't mind you playing differently. :D
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Clearly we have different experiences with both games, as SR can be about slaughter if you want it to and D&D can be about the opposite. But as long as you're having fun, I don't mind you playing differently. :D
The nice thing is that the experience in SR is given out in a more open way for things the PCs do while in D&D experience is allocated neatly based on challenges (some of those being RP challenges, others being combat). Honestly, both games have extensive combat system rules while most RP is still based on a single roll, which are rather dry from a rules context.
There are games that are simpler in all their actions and everything requires a single dice roll like Cold City or systems with elaborate social rules such as Burning Wheel's Duel of Wits system; both of these options offer a more well rounded approach by offering social and combat rules.
You can run D&D and Shadowrun similarly, but SR lends itself more to gritty, noiresque styles (being more lethal and all), while D&D is much better as a heroic game where single powerful warriors hold off entire legions of orcs. The basic idea of going into a dungeon/corp facility full of goons and traps are the bread and butter for both games.
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We recently got our hands on some SR3 Core books, and thought that a new system might clear our heads. Exams and all that "fun" stuff.
If you got your hands on SR3 books, take them back to wherever you got them and get the Shadowrun 20th Anniversary edition book. Its SR4 with errata applied and its a lot better then SR1, 2, or 3 in my opinion.
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We recently got our hands on some SR3 Core books, and thought that a new system might clear our heads. Exams and all that "fun" stuff.
If you got your hands on SR3 books, take them back to wherever you got them and get the Shadowrun 20th Anniversary edition book. Its SR4 with errata applied and its a lot better then SR1, 2, or 3 in my opinion.
There's nothing wrong with SR3, but 4 is definately a superior game. The book and its rules are easier to understand, and are just generally better. Get your hands on the 20th Anniversary edition, it's what I got and never turned back from.
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There's nothing wrong with SR3, but 4 is definately a superior game. The book and its rules are easier to understand, and are just generally better. Get your hands on the 20th Anniversary edition, it's what I got and never turned back from.
Well, if any of us had the cash for 20th Anniversary, I'm pretty sure we would've taken that instead of the old books we found in a closet...
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Nothing wrong with going with what you have. Half the games I play I own maybe one or two books and then
sponge borrow whatever else I need. Shadowrun is the only game I have ever had the majority of the books for within my group.
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Railroading in DnD - I haven't played a lot but every time I did, under various GMs, combat was the solution and the only solution. Don't know if that was meant but I would have to agree if it was.
That's a common way to play, but not the only way. And its certainly not something the rules enforce or require. D&D can be as basic as repeated dungeon crawls or as in depth as Lord of the Rings. Combat is just the hammer in a GM's toolbelt. If every problem is a nail its on the GM's or the players' head, not the system's.
D&D rewards are for slaughter (No slaughter, No experience) they may have changed this a little but not much. D&D is fun at times for exactly for what it is a hack and slash game. Shadowrun rewards role-playing and getting the job done (different mind set).
To be honest, the books always discussed giving out XP as Story Awards in the books, but most players and GMs forget about this since published adventures always focused more on the combat.
It's not so much that it's 'forgotten'. The suggestion is loosely made in a couple of sentences in a few books, but not touched upon again with no real suggestions on guidelines for the size of those awards other than I believe one book saying that such awards should be small. For the most part, if your D&D character isn't a combat monster tank or a high level mage that can frag everything, it will not likely see much advancement.
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It's not so much that it's 'forgotten'. The suggestion is loosely made in a couple of sentences in a few books, but not touched upon again with no real suggestions on guidelines for the size of those awards other than I believe one book saying that such awards should be small. For the most part, if your D&D character isn't a combat monster tank or a high level mage that can frag everything, it will not likely see much advancement.
LOL