Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: savaze on <03-24-11/0333:22>
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The Slivergun has always held a special place in my heart. It's that cool Heavy Pistol version of a Machine Pistol, but doesn't use the Automatics skill. I don't always want to use flechette rounds, even though the AP penalties are less severe from the Viper. Is it/would it be possible to overhaul the pistol to use normal rounds? If so what am I looking at for mod values/stats?
Ares Viper Slivergun 8P(f ) +2 SA/BF — 30 (c) 5R 500¥
Name/Damage/AP/Mode/RC/Ammo/Availability/Cost
Would the new statistics just reverse engineer the flechette out (+2P +5AP)?
New stat possibilities:
6P -3 SA/BF — 30 (c) 5R ?¥ (Still looks like the Viper so legality on sight would be the same, Price: 500+parts?, Ruger Super Warhawk eat your heart out)
Possible assumptions (you know what they say about assuming):
1) Flechette is proprietary and smaller than Heavy Pistol rounds, meaning more rounds fit into the HP mag: 30 instead of 12.
2) Flechette is proprietary and has some armor piercing qualities, meaning the Flechette only gives a +3 AP instead of +5 AP.
3) Flechette is proprietary and has more bang for it's buck, meaning +3P instead of +2P.
4) The loading mechanism was specially designed to increase the cyclic rate of the flechette and can't maintain that with 'normal' size rounds, meaning BF is possible.
Result:
5P -1 SA — 12 (c) 5R ?¥ (~ standard heavy pistol)
Maybe some of the assumptions are true and some aren't like:
6P -3 SA/BF — 12 (c) 5R ?¥ (= #1; ≠ #2-4)
6P -1 SA/BF — 30 (c) 5R ?¥ (= #2; ≠ #1,3,4)
5P -3 SA/BF — 30 (c) 5R ?¥ (= #3; ≠ #1,2,4)
6P -3 SA — 30 (c) 5R ?¥ (= #4; ≠ #1-3)
Or one of the 16 combinations possible... I'm leaning towards assumptions #1&2 being true (6P -1 SA/BF — 12 (c) 5R ?¥) or everything but #2 being true (5P -3 SA — 12 (c) 5R ?¥)
Or is this all just a pipe dream?
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To me, the Viper's cool because it's...well...what it is. A slivergun. If all you're after is a burst fire heavy pistol, why not just use the existing modification rules to make a burst fire heavy pistol?
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'Cause it's the Slivergun and it's cool. I just wanted some more options with it...
One cool pistol vs several to do the job with less style!
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Maybe it could be modded to the standard HP, 5P -1 SA — 12 (c), when it uses normal rounds, but is back to itself with it's 'Slivers.'
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To me, it's always been the slivergun part that gave it some style; the necessity to call most of your shots, that sort of thing. Everyone's mileage varies, though. Don't let me stop ya if you're having fun tweakin' it and the GM is cool with the changes. 8)
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This is all insomniac ponderings.
There doesn't seem to be any gaming groups in a 2 hour radius over here. I'm afraid table-top is being bumped out for video games... I've tried to start three groups in the last year, but they all fell through. I've canvased the local gaming stores with no serious hits. The stores are only getting Pokemon & Magic players. I'm not sure who's buying the material, but it still seems to sell. Maybe it's High Schoolers and/or closet gamers???
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Wow, remind me not to move down there. ;) In-person games are still very popular up my way.
As for the pistol, I say go for it. I'd likely settle for something slightly more cool than an off-the-shelf model but costs a fair bit. I agree that the Slivergun is cool, though having it not shoot slivers might require a name change?
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The Slivergun is great for Security Personnel who deal with unarmored opponents while they themselves have armor, less worries about friendly fire. Against actual security forces who will have at least some kind of armor, not so good. (Unless you're dealing with Ghetto, Bargain Basement Security who only have armored clothing.).
If you want something that will cut through armor, perhaps they can be fed with the armor-piercing flechettes from War!.
If not, it's a great Anti-Ganger weapon, or something for a licensed civilian to carry for self-defense with the now proliferation of armoring up clothing. "Anyone of real importance would be wearing armored clothing, officer, so I could safety shoot at those SINless Punks that were trying to do nasty things to that woman." Great for the more militantly minded that would see a Taser as too "Wimpy".
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What, no Dikote?
Also, where's the inhabited Ally spirit?
-k
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Don't they have tungston flechete in War! that has better armor defeating traits? Wish I had my books :-\
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Don't they have tungston flechete in War! that has better armor defeating traits? Wish I had my books :-\
Yeah, and they use Impact armor, not Ballistic -- but they're also availability 18, and cost 16 nuyen a round.
Personally, I've always liked the idea that the Viper isn't just another pistol (that happens to shoot flechette). This is nothing canon, and no book says so, but it's so much better than other heavy pistols in a few key ways, that the explanation that makes sense (to me) is that it just doesn't work like any other gun. It's got the rate of fire that it does, it's got the magazine capacity that it does, and it's got the built-in lack of sound that it does, by being something besides a traditional firearm. The "magazine" is some sort of solid polymer brick, and the gun fires by scraping slivers off that brick and hurtling them down the barrel a whole lot of slivers at a time.
It's not so much a generic heavy pistol that happens to only shoot flechettes for some reason, as something completely "out there" compared to traditional gun designs (a specialized needle-gun in a very cyberpunk or even sci-fi sense)...in my head. I don't know how else to explain why it has double or triple the average heavy pistol ammo, a better firing mode, a built-in silencer (that you can't see in any picture of it), and all for the same size, otherwise.
So that's part of why I, personally, dislike tweaking it to get even more out of it, or to make it fire regular or other upgraded ammo. In my brain, all it's got in common with a Predator is the company who makes it.
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The right tool for the right job. The Ares Slivergun is great for unarmored targets. Armored targets get the Ares Predator treatment.
Or, you know... "Get the rifle you shouldn't have been away from in the first place." :P
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Ares Viper Slivergun 8P(f ) +2 SA/BF — 30 (c) 5R 500¥
Name/Damage/AP/Mode/RC/Ammo/Availability/Cost
LOL, havent even noticed before that they fucked up that table in the Anniversary book.
Sliver guns AP is supposed to be +5 not +2, check the 1,8 corebook errata or arsenal errata(both available in here http://www.shadowrun4.com/game-resources/ (http://www.shadowrun4.com/game-resources/))
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Ares Viper Slivergun 8P(f ) +2 SA/BF — 30 (c) 5R 500¥
Name/Damage/AP/Mode/RC/Ammo/Availability/Cost
LOL, havent even noticed before that they fucked up that table in the Anniversary book.
Sliver guns AP is supposed to be +5 not +2, check the 1,8 corebook errata or arsenal errata(both available in here http://www.shadowrun4.com/game-resources/ (http://www.shadowrun4.com/game-resources/))
It is +5 in my copy of SR4A. The page number is correct, and all the rest of the line is the same in my book, but it's listed as +5, not +2. I'm not sure if Savaze just typoed, or has some freak mutant book, or what.
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My 4a book has it wrong as well.
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Weird. I guess they changed it between printings, or something, 'cause everything else matches up (even page number, etc) but mine's got +5. I'd try for a better scan but the last thing I want to do is damage my book 'cause my scanner chewed on it like a Hungry, Hungry, Hippo: (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b112/CriTalondel/th_IMG.jpg) (http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b112/CriTalondel/?action=view¤t=IMG.jpg)
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It's in the errata.
Everything flechette is +5 to AP.
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Personally, I've always liked the idea that the Viper isn't just another pistol (that happens to shoot flechette). This is nothing canon, and no book says so, but it's so much better than other heavy pistols in a few key ways, that the explanation that makes sense (to me) is that it just doesn't work like any other gun. It's got the rate of fire that it does, it's got the magazine capacity that it does, and it's got the built-in lack of sound that it does, by being something besides a traditional firearm. The "magazine" is some sort of solid polymer brick, and the gun fires by scraping slivers off that brick and hurtling them down the barrel a whole lot of slivers at a time.
I know a lot of people that rule it works pretty much the way you described. Considering the description states, "it fires metal slivers that count as flechette ammunition (already factored in to the Damage Code)," RAI seems to agree. It doesn't fire standard bullets, it fires slivergun ammo that counts as flechette for stat purposes (to save from printing an identical line other than name in the ammunition tables).
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Personally, I've always liked the idea that the Viper isn't just another pistol (that happens to shoot flechette). This is nothing canon, and no book says so, but it's so much better than other heavy pistols in a few key ways, that the explanation that makes sense (to me) is that it just doesn't work like any other gun. It's got the rate of fire that it does, it's got the magazine capacity that it does, and it's got the built-in lack of sound that it does, by being something besides a traditional firearm. The "magazine" is some sort of solid polymer brick, and the gun fires by scraping slivers off that brick and hurtling them down the barrel a whole lot of slivers at a time.
I know a lot of people that rule it works pretty much the way you described. Considering the description states, "it fires metal slivers that count as flechette ammunition (already factored in to the Damage Code)," RAI seems to agree. It doesn't fire standard bullets, it fires slivergun ammo that counts as flechette for stat purposes (to save from printing an identical line other than name in the ammunition tables).
If I remember the Viper got the nickname, Slivergun, from a popular trid (I can't find the reference at the moment - it was either in 2e or 3e that it happened, I wanna say 3e). Prior editions didn't describe the Slivergun as firing different kind of ammo:
Ares Viper Slivergun: The Slivergun is a sleek weapon with burst fire capabilities and built-in sound suppression. It fires metal slivers that count as flechette ammunition (already factored in to the Damage Code).
Ares Viper Slivergun: This pistol fires flechette ammunition (which is already factored into its Damage Code). It has the range of a heavy pistol and features a built-in silencer.
Area Viper: The pistol fires flechette ammunition (already factored into it's damage code). The slivergun has the range of a heavy pistol even though it is really a light pistol. The Viper features a built-in silencer.
Area Viper: The pistol fires flechette ammunition (already factored into it's damage code). The slivergun has the range of a heavy pistol even though it is really a light pistol. The Viper features a built-in silencer.
I like the idea of the blocks of material being inserted and shaved off for ammo, it kinda reminds me of the nanite material ammo blocks from Old Man's War. The only thing I'm trying to understand is how that fits in with SR 2070's explained tech. Does a separate block of propellants have to be inserted as well? Or are we moving into the realm of the railgun? Coilgun?
I made my assumptions above because of the "metal slivers that count as flechette ammunition" and, I'm gathering, because of the lack of errata in my SR4A...
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No, you're right, it's never actually been said (clearly) anywhere, and especially not in older editions. It's just been my internal justification for it, because otherwise I just don't understand how the thing has the stats it does, at the size it does, and at the price it does.
Why can it hold 30 flechette rounds in a mag when the Predator (the gold standard) can hold half that? Why can it fire on bursts when the Savalette Guardian and Ruger Thunderbolt were the remarkable, awe-inspiring, death cannons of their day when they could fire bursts?
So the zany solid-block of ammo that gets shredded and launched is what I came up with...maybe inspired by some other fiction I'd read, maybe half-remembered from a movie, I dunno, but it made sense to me. ;)
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No, you're right, it's never actually been said (clearly) anywhere, and especially not in older editions. It's just been my internal justification for it, because otherwise I just don't understand how the thing has the stats it does, at the size it does, and at the price it does.
Why can it hold 30 flechette rounds in a mag when the Predator (the gold standard) can hold half that? Why can it fire on bursts when the Savalette Guardian and Ruger Thunderbolt were the remarkable, awe-inspiring, death cannons of their day when they could fire bursts?
So the zany solid-block of ammo that gets shredded and launched is what I came up with...maybe inspired by some other fiction I'd read, maybe half-remembered from a movie, I dunno, but it made sense to me. ;)
It was in some novel, 'cuz I remember it too. Was it Secrets of Power?
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No, you're right, it's never actually been said (clearly) anywhere, and especially not in older editions. It's just been my internal justification for it, because otherwise I just don't understand how the thing has the stats it does, at the size it does, and at the price it does.
Why can it hold 30 flechette rounds in a mag when the Predator (the gold standard) can hold half that? Why can it fire on bursts when the Savalette Guardian and Ruger Thunderbolt were the remarkable, awe-inspiring, death cannons of their day when they could fire bursts?
So the zany solid-block of ammo that gets shredded and launched is what I came up with...maybe inspired by some other fiction I'd read, maybe half-remembered from a movie, I dunno, but it made sense to me. ;)
It was in some novel, 'cuz I remember it too. Was it Secrets of Power?
It was Never Deal With a Dragon, yep. Ghost gives Sam a slivergun and he winds up shooting someone for the first time. It describes it as firing plastic flechettes, which probably impressed itself on the memories of many old-timers. :)
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That would be it, then, yeah. I haven't read those things in forever. I can never quite bring myself to get rid of them, but I haven't opened them in probably 15 years.
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Also why he's the most peaceful Shadowrunner around, even up 'til the 2060s, as he never found out he was responsible for the guy's death after all.
Good series, and good pistol when used right.
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The funny thing is... I just checked my first printing Special Edition 4e book, the monogrammed version (the cool one), which I never check any more because it's so full of typos that I bought a new one to not have to deal with it, and the stats are the same as my copy of SR4A.
Is there an official ruling on this (+2 AP or +5 AP).
@ Critias
I understand the issue being not cannon, but it still sounds cool so I was rolling with it!
EDIT:
Never mind on the official ruling... it's in the SR4 errata, but not the SR4A or Arsenal (it mentions Fichetti Tiffani Needler) stuff.
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Don't they have tungston flechete in War! that has better armor defeating traits? Wish I had my books :-\
The Armor-Piercing Flechette in War! adds +2 P, bringing the damage code to 10 P (f). I'm not sure I'd play with it because it shares the same damage code with the Panther Cannon in the size of a light pistol, though there is a 10 AP difference between the two (imagine the Viper tricked out to be FA and to absorb recoil doing called shots)...
EDIT:
I just got to thinking and perhaps I read the Armor-Piercing Flechette wrong and you just get the +2 P with no AP modifier instead of an additional +2 on top of Flechette...
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Never mind on the official ruling... it's in the SR4 errata, but not the SR4A or Arsenal (it mentions Fichetti Tiffani Needler) stuff.
Actually, as my earlier post said its in the Arsenal errata too, check the section at the end that has errata for the tables in the back.
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The shearing slivers off a single block of metal sounds exactly like the tech in the first Mass Effect game.
From the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_effect#Weapons_and_equipment
"Ammunition is unlimited; instead of needing to reload, a weapon will build up heat until it overheats, and cannot fire until it has sufficiently cooled down. In-game, the reasoning for this is that weapons are loaded with "blocks" of ammunition material, and each round fired is sheared off from this central supply of ammunition. The rounds themselves are described as being the size of a "grain of sand" and are launched through mass accelerator technology at extremely high speeds."
I've always been a fan of weapons with odd/unique ammunition and just figured that the Slivergun had something like triangular casings.
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Actually, as my earlier post said its in the Arsenal errata too, check the section at the end that has errata for the tables in the back.
You're right... Someone should get word to the errata guys to put it in the SR4A stuff too
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The Slivergun has been wrong since 2nd edition. At least since 3rd edition.
In 1st Edition it was a LIGHT Pistol, NOT a Heavy Pistol.
Also, this weapon is based on Molly Millions Needler from William Gibsons Neuromancer.
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The Slivergun has been wrong since 2nd edition. At least since 3rd edition.
In 1st Edition it was a LIGHT Pistol, NOT a Heavy Pistol.
Also, this weapon is based on Molly Millions Needler from William Gibsons Neuromancer.
Well, lots of things changed from 1st-2nd (or from 2nd-3rd, or 3rd-4th). That doesn't mean it's been wrong ever since, just that it's changed.
And even in 1st it was pretty messed up. They told us it was a Light pistol in its fluff, but it was listed as a Heavy on the actual weapons chart, and it specifically stated it used the Heavy ranges. It was just kind of...weird.
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Lots of weird firearms IRL. In particular I'm thinking of RL Caseless firearms and Gyrojet weapons.
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The Slivergun has been wrong since 2nd edition. At least since 3rd edition.
In 1st Edition it was a LIGHT Pistol, NOT a Heavy Pistol.
Also, this weapon is based on Molly Millions Needler from William Gibsons Neuromancer.
Well, lots of things changed from 1st-2nd (or from 2nd-3rd, or 3rd-4th). That doesn't mean it's been wrong ever since, just that it's changed.
And even in 1st it was pretty messed up. They told us it was a Light pistol in its fluff, but it was listed as a Heavy on the actual weapons chart, and it specifically stated it used the Heavy ranges. It was just kind of...weird.
Maybe it's just a heavy pistol with a compact frame, for greater concealability...
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The Slivergun has been wrong since 2nd edition. At least since 3rd edition.
In 1st Edition it was a LIGHT Pistol, NOT a Heavy Pistol.
Also, this weapon is based on Molly Millions Needler from William Gibsons Neuromancer.
Well, lots of things changed from 1st-2nd (or from 2nd-3rd, or 3rd-4th). That doesn't mean it's been wrong ever since, just that it's changed.
And even in 1st it was pretty messed up. They told us it was a Light pistol in its fluff, but it was listed as a Heavy on the actual weapons chart, and it specifically stated it used the Heavy ranges. It was just kind of...weird.
Maybe it's just a heavy pistol with a compact frame, for greater concealability...
In 1st, each gun had an individual concealability rating. There were tendencies for Lights to be smaller than Heavies, and that sort of thing...but it wasn't a blanket rule. The Viper was just weird. They called it a Light, but it was a Light that had the range and damage of a Heavy, and was listed as a Heavy on the chart of guns, and a Light that had the same concealability as a Browning Heavy.
It was just...yeah. Weird. SR1 was basically just the guy saying "It's a Light Pistol, guys! Honest!" So I didn't really mind when in later editions they just went ahead and called it a Heavy Pistol.
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In 1st, each gun had an individual concealability rating. There were tendencies for Lights to be smaller than Heavies, and that sort of thing...but it wasn't a blanket rule. The Viper was just weird. They called it a Light, but it was a Light that had the range and damage of a Heavy, and was listed as a Heavy on the chart of guns, and a Light that had the same concealability as a Browning Heavy.
It was just...yeah. Weird. SR1 was basically just the guy saying "It's a Light Pistol, guys! Honest!" So I didn't really mind when in later editions they just went ahead and called it a Heavy Pistol.
I know, I'm just trying to make it work. They kept that light pistol stuff in the fluff text up through 2e, and the concealabilty was the same as a HP in 1e, but on par with a LP in both 2e & 3e (though the gap was narrowed for pistol conceals).
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I really wish they had kept the individual concealability... :'(
But I'm a gun nut and all that, so...
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I concur! I wish there were books with 'optional' complicated rule sets to add onto the basic set, but that's me...
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I remember "errata"-ing the Ares Viper Slivergun in every edition since they stuffed the conversion from SR1 to SR2. In SR4 I changed it to have the same stats as written, except that it does 6P (f).
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I remember "errata"-ing the Ares Viper Slivergun in every edition since they stuffed the conversion from SR1 to SR2. In SR4 I changed it to have the same stats as written, except that it does 6P (f).
Has any player ever used one in your SR4?
Because i see absolutely no reason to ever buy one with that damage code.
It's not exactly a super pistol as written, but that change makes it totally useless.
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Has any player ever used one in your SR4?
Because i see absolutely no reason to ever buy one with that damage code.
It's not exactly a super pistol as written, but that change makes it totally useless.
I makes it better than any other Light Pistol capable of Burst-Fire or Machine Pistol, because it uses the Heavy Pistol ranges, has a better Availability, and a better price point. Any of my players that wants a LP or a MP on the cheap gets one.
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I makes it better than any other Light Pistol capable of Burst-Fire or Machine Pistol, because it uses the Heavy Pistol ranges, has a better Availability, and a better price point. Any of my players that wants a LP or a MP on the cheap gets one.
I guess they're heavy duty penny pincher's ;D
Because if your filling to spend a little more money, pretty much any of the Machine Pistols is much better and not limited to using fletchette ammo, to say nothing about using Automatic skill to fire(witch is usually a very good think)
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I guess they're heavy duty penny pincher's ;D
Because if your filling to spend a little more money, pretty much any of the Machine Pistols is much better and not limited to using fletchette ammo, to say nothing about using Automatic skill to fire(witch is usually a very good think)
Well, outside of low-powered gang-level style games (which I've had a couple), none of my players rarely bother with anything other than Heavy Pistols as far as pistols go. But, when you're playing the former style games...
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Don't they have tungston flechete in War! that has better armor defeating traits? Wish I had my books :-\
Yeah, and they use Impact armor, not Ballistic -- but they're also availability 18, and cost 16 nuyen a round.
If it matters, even regular flechette rounds go against Impact armor (SR4A, 323).
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I remember "errata"-ing the Ares Viper Slivergun in every edition since they stuffed the conversion from SR1 to SR2. In SR4 I changed it to have the same stats as written, except that it does 6P (f).
Has any player ever used one in your SR4?
Because i see absolutely no reason to ever buy one with that damage code.
It's not exactly a super pistol as written, but that change makes it totally useless.
I think I had a character use one back in SR2 days, but I've never seen anyone use one since then. If it did 8P, it would be overpowered (though that's what the Slivergun would do with AP Flechette from War!), but that (f) makes a huge difference. On the other hand, +5 AP gives an average of just under +2 hits on damage resistance, so the +5 AP doesn't quite compensate for the increased DV. And since most targets (aside from the FFBA/PPP-layering runners) have lower Impact than Ballistic armor, the weapon is a good buy. The main difference is that since it's flechette, you can't really change to a different ammo type except for AP Flechette.
As I think about it, I may have to try this gun. :)
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I think I had a character use one back in SR2 days, but I've never seen anyone use one since then. If it did 8P, it would be overpowered (though that's what the Slivergun would do with AP Flechette from War!), but that (f) makes a huge difference. On the other hand, +5 AP gives an average of just under +2 hits on damage resistance, so the +5 AP doesn't quite compensate for the increased DV. And since most targets (aside from the FFBA/PPP-layering runners) have lower Impact than Ballistic armor, the weapon is a good buy. The main difference is that since it's flechette, you can't really change to a different ammo type except for AP Flechette.
As I think about it, I may have to try this gun. :)
Raw version is a solid piece of weaponry, my question was about his nerfed version that only does 6P(f) damage.
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Raw version is a solid piece of weaponry, my question was about his nerfed version that only does 6P(f) damage.
One man's nerf is another man's errata. :P
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I want a Belt-Fed Nerf Gun.
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I want a Belt-Fed Nerf Gun.
Vulcan. Standard belt 25 darts, fires at 3 darts per minute. Additional belts are only about US$12 apiece and it's very easy to link them together. Increased rate of fire risks burning out the motor, but that's not that expensive. The only thing I never solved to my satisfaction was increasing the range in a reliable fashion while not being a danger to animals and small children. Nonetheless there's something satisfying in suppressing a doorway for 30 seconds, letting them think you're (finally) out, then having another 30 or so darts to cut down the charge.
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The Viper has crap for RC. That's its downside. It can't replace a machine pistol because it can't burst properly.
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Well it has +2 damage but if you burst it you have an addition +2 damage. :D so 10 Physical damage base hit isn't so bad... that's if you can take the recoil.
Got a question for that, if I duel wield them would I have a -2 to both hands? or is it stacked -4 on both hands for the first bursts?
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Add the Full-auto large mod for 4 slots and as much RC as you can pump into it.
Long burst, short burst, every turn!
;D
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Add the Full-auto large mod for 4 slots and as much RC as you can pump into it.
Long burst, short burst, every turn!
;D
Full auto mod is a small mod for it since it already burst fires. Only 2 slots, so there's lots more room for RC (and other mods, probably).
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Pretty sure the class of the gun is what matters, not the modes it already had, but i can check that later.
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Full auto with a sliver gun? o.O
(imagines sliver's flying down a hallway hitting just about every inch of the wall down the way. XD)
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Pretty sure the class of the gun is what matters, not the modes it already had, but i can check that later.
Everything else (equipping an SS weapon with an SA mode and vice versa, equipping a BF weapon with an FA mode and vice versa, equipping a BF or FA weapon with an SS or SA mode) is considered a small modification.
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So...messes....up.
Add Extended pistol clip or maybe additional clip to this full auto slivergun.
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Forget that.
High Power Chambering. That would either be a change from 8P(f) +5 AP to 8P -1 AP or 8P(f) +5 AP to 10P +4 AP, depending on how you see the HPC mod working.
But the total amount of RC you can fit into the Viper, is 3. Weight, personal grip and a stock. It's no marksman's weapon. A FA mod would be usefull for suppression only.
As to Zilfer's question about Recoil when firing with guns in each hand, RC penalties and RC compensation only matter for each individual weapon.
So, if you fired a narrow burst with your right hand, and had 2 points of RC in that gun, then that shot would be fully compensated. If in your next action, you shot with a second gun which also had 2 points of RC, then that shot would also be fully compensated.
If you fired both guns at once, and had no RC, then you would split your dice pools as you choose and apply the individual RC modifiers to each DP separately.
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High Power Chambering. That would either be a change from 8P(f) +5 AP to 8P -1 AP or 8P(f) +5 AP to 10P +4 AP, depending on how you see the HPC mod working.
I doupt there are many GM:S who would allow you to HPC mod a gun that can only fire fletchette ammo.
Just start using AP fletchettes that gives you damage code of 8P 0 AP
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High Strength recoil for it can make it RC7 at max. If you use those rules. Or you can gyro stabilize it :D
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My face has a spec. in heavy pistols and made one of these after a few runs. Did the whole shebang with the extended & extra clips and the FA mod. I only had 10 or so dice to shoot it but with me only having one IP most of the time I ended up putting its full auto supressive fire to great use. And yes, each time I i used it I imagined a hail of metal slivers raining down on friend and foe alike.
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EPIC. +1 to you!
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High Power Chambering. That would either be a change from 8P(f) +5 AP to 8P -1 AP or 8P(f) +5 AP to 10P +4 AP, depending on how you see the HPC mod working.
I doupt there are many GM:S who would allow you to HPC mod a gun that can only fire fletchette ammo.
Just start using AP fletchettes that gives you damage code of 8P 0 AP
Well, it's War! A lot of the rules are only half thought out. There's nothing to stop you from modding an Ares Thunderstruck with HPC, even though it doesn't even use a standard explosive propellant...
Honestly though, it does make some sense to mod up even flechette as HP, if you read the entry. It just uses a more expensive propellant in the round and a heavier firing chamber in the gun to deal with the extra blast force. It could easily be something applied to any type of full metal killing round.
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It could easily be something applied to any type of full metal killing round.
To bad that the Viper apparantly fires plastic then.