Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Aria on <10-13-20/1837:24>

Title: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Aria on <10-13-20/1837:24>
The rules are fairly clear except on how long the dazed etc status should last. The section on statuses says it will normally be written with the spell/gear etc...!?

For the moment Iím ruling the turn the grenade goes off and the following turn but does anyone know a RAW answer?

Thanks
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <10-13-20/1934:36>
Unless specified otherwise: statuses last however long the GM wants them to.


As a best practice/rule of thumb: I'd say in the case of stun grenades, until the end of the scene/combat.
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Sir Ludwig on <10-13-20/2012:21>
Aria,

We play it that is lasted the whole scene/combat but that it does not stack (multiple grenades donít make it worse). 

Regards,
SL
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on <10-14-20/0112:58>
I'd lean more towards 1 turn. The game is so focused around gaining and using edge saying you can't use it for the whole combat seems excessive given that.
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <10-14-20/0150:30>
I'd lean more towards 1 turn. The game is so focused around gaining and using edge saying you can't use it for the whole combat seems excessive given that.

That's valid, since it's all "the duration is whatever you want it to be".

I like a longer duration since it gives granular room to represent mitigating factors.  "Lasts until the end of the combat, but since you had hearing dampers, it'll only last 3 rounds for you" and so on.
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Xenon on <10-14-20/0601:44>
Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stun_grenade
A stun grenade, also known as a flash grenade, flashbang, thunderflash or sound bomb,[1] is a less-lethal explosive device used to temporarily disorient an enemy's senses. It is designed to produce a blinding flash of light of around 7 megacandela (Mcd) and an intensely loud "bang" of greater than 170 decibels (dB).[2] It was first used by the British Army's Special Air Service in the late 1970s.[3]

The flash momentarily activates all photoreceptor cells in the eye, blinding it for approximately five seconds. Afterward, victims perceive an afterimage which impairs their aim. The sheer volume of the detonation also causes temporary deafness in the victim and also disturbs the fluid in the ear, causing a loss of balance.

Blinded I, Deafened I, and Dazed should probably last until the end of the next combat turn (1Ĺ combat turns) or end right before the attacker get to act again after the next combat turn (slightly less than 2 combat turns).

The Stun damage part should probably remain as long as it take for victim to recover via natural resting.
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Sir Ludwig on <10-14-20/1201:20>
All,

Half my players are ex-military so we were all using experience of a flash bang as the bases for our decision.

In a pure game mechanics Xenon and Shinobi make good points.  SSDR signature says it the best:

Quote from: Katanarchist on <07-16-19/1807:19>
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, youíre fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.
 
As GM, I let the players know whatever they can do, the enemy can do as well... which has greatly reduced the grenade spam problem (please don't start that debate again).

Regards,
SL
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on <10-14-20/1529:11>
I don't know I mean end of the next round is like around 5 seconds. Thats about when the blindness lets up in reality. You are still jacked up after that, maybe seeing double, wobbly as fuck maybe but taking 10/8 damage and the penalties that come from that can model that as well. I don't feel the need to make it 10 damage on top of status effects. Keeping in mind in 6e a 50 cal on full auto is doing 8 damage as well in this system, for a comparison on how jacked up you are feeling from this stun grenade.
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Aria on <10-14-20/1541:12>
Well weíve already house ruled half power to CRB grenades and rockets so the statuses are more important in this case but Iím happy with round thrown + next round for status, if you have dampers and or flare comp you can ignore that second round of the relevant status...

It was a PC who bore the brunt of the first flash bang, but they threw one back at the opposition in the next round :D
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on <10-14-20/1612:56>
1/2 damage is pretty much the house rule I rolled with as well for as long as I ran it.  Well technically at first I just said, please don't use them and I wont, then after getting a feel for the rules 1/2 damage+new hits after scatter. End of next round seems plenty powerful IMO given how often fights are over by that point anyways. Grenade and explosive damage is so out of whack of other damage in the game I am convinced it is just a flat out error that they just don't want to fess up to.
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Xenon on <10-15-20/0658:19>
While discussing house rules, not sure flash bangs should deal damage at all... :-)

Apply Blinded III and Deafened III at GZ
Apply Blinded II and Deafened II at Close
Apply Blinded I and Deafened I at Near (with a blast range of 15 meters)

Reduce Blinded and Deafened level by 1 per combat turn.

Also reduce initial Blinded level by 1 if user have flare compensation
Increase initial Blinded level by 1 if user have low light.
Reduce initial Deafened level by 1 if user have Damper


Apply Dazed for the entire encounter (but deal no actual stun damage).
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: MercilessMing on <10-15-20/1004:04>
While discussing house rules, not sure flash bangs should deal damage at all... :-)

Apply Blinded III and Deafened III at GZ
Apply Blinded II and Deafened II at Close
Apply Blinded I and Deafened I at Near (with a blast range of 15 meters)

Reduce Blinded and Deafened level by 1 per combat turn.

Also reduce initial Blinded level by 1 if user have flare compensation
Increase initial Blinded level by 1 if user have low light.
Reduce initial Deafened level by 1 if user have Damper


BEST.
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Sir Ludwig on <10-15-20/1157:16>
I like this idea as well.
Regards,
SL

While discussing house rules, not sure flash bangs should deal damage at all... :-)

Apply Blinded III and Deafened III at GZ
Apply Blinded II and Deafened II at Close
Apply Blinded I and Deafened I at Near (with a blast range of 15 meters)

Reduce Blinded and Deafened level by 1 per combat turn.

Also reduce initial Blinded level by 1 if user have flare compensation
Increase initial Blinded level by 1 if user have low light.
Reduce initial Deafened level by 1 if user have Damper


Apply Dazed for the entire encounter (but deal no actual stun damage).
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Aria on <10-15-20/1217:01>
Except itís the Dazed that prevents the use of edge!! As noted above that seems a bit harsh for a game that now revolves around spending and gaining edge!?
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <10-15-20/1352:57>
Except itís the Dazed that prevents the use of edge!! As noted above that seems a bit harsh for a game that now revolves around spending and gaining edge!?

Well, that's true... but it also means inflicting the dazed status is a hella big deal.  Since durations are fluid, you could say Dazed lasts for however long time, which potentially cripples the victim.  You could have certain augmentations reduce that time, as previously suggested.  You could also have a victim "shake it off" by spending a major action, or such.  That kind of represents the advantage a stun grenade can give you, at least in cinematic sense (which is how most players grok combat, anyway!).
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: MercilessMing on <10-15-20/1443:15>
Except itís the Dazed that prevents the use of edge!! As noted above that seems a bit harsh for a game that now revolves around spending and gaining edge!?
I left that little bit out of my quote on purpose :D
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on <10-15-20/1749:26>
Except itís the Dazed that prevents the use of edge!! As noted above that seems a bit harsh for a game that now revolves around spending and gaining edge!?

Well, that's true... but it also means inflicting the dazed status is a hella big deal.  Since durations are fluid, you could say Dazed lasts for however long time, which potentially cripples the victim.  You could have certain augmentations reduce that time, as previously suggested.  You could also have a victim "shake it off" by spending a major action, or such.  That kind of represents the advantage a stun grenade can give you, at least in cinematic sense (which is how most players grok combat, anyway!).

if a cheap available option grants too big of an advantage they get used all the time. With a game based around using edge do you really want a device that removes it for everyone the first action on every combat. Especially when just being blind and deaf can be groked as what a stun grenade can do as well in a cinematic sense.
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Aria on <10-15-20/1752:14>
Of course my PCs found out the hard way that a 15m radius is really really big indoors... I suspect they will think twice about employing them too much :D
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on <10-15-20/2320:23>
Lol.  Generally my players are pretty conscious of that, and they throw grenades from cover.
Title: Re: [6e] Stun Grenade Statuses
Post by: Aria on <10-16-20/0310:24>
It may be a hangover from previous editions but Iíve always said flash bangs fill the whole radius cover be damned... fill the area with particles and then ignite like a fuel air explosive device... of course I could have that wrong :P