Shadowrun

Catalyst Game Labs => Catalyst's Shadowrun Products => Topic started by: DrBurst on <01-11-20/1107:42>

Title: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: DrBurst on <01-11-20/1107:42>
See Link Here: https://www.enworld.org/threads/shadowrun-cutting-black-sourcebook-review.669595/
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: AJCarrington on <01-11-20/1155:33>
Wow...

Hopefully this will be released soon so that we can all dive into it...lots of questions.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <01-11-20/1224:09>
Some sacred cows mighta gotten killed.  Eager to see this, too.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: DrBurst on <01-11-20/1325:58>
Wow...

Hopefully this will be released soon so that we can all dive into it...lots of questions.

It should be soon, in the other thread they said it was printed and shipped. Just waiting for the truck to pull into CGL.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: GuardDuty on <01-11-20/1433:49>
Can't say I'm terribly excited about Detroit being the new Chicago, hopefully they do something interesting with it.  I'm pretty let down that's how they chose to follow up what I think was their best story thread.

I think the BRA stuff sounds really interesting, even if I disagree with the way it sounds like it will unfold.  But if they're going to make a major change to one of the principle elements of the setting, it really should have been discussed in the CRB.  If I were an active 6E player and something like that happened within six months of the new edition going live, I'd be pretty upset.  But since I'm not, it's pretty whatever.

The blackouts, the fog, and the UCAS' instability don't call to me at all right now, but I'm glad it's launching with a mostly positive review.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: prophet42 on <01-11-20/1504:59>
That's a lot of 'WTF?' moments.

It'll be interesting to see if any of the affected cities stick with analog solutions.
(That longbow's looking mighty sweet about now)
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Michael Chandra on <01-11-20/1635:34>
Here comes the big drama!

And yes, people, Seattle is now a free city! O_O
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Wakshaani on <01-11-20/2355:07>
There's a whole lot going on in there. Just, man. Gobs and gobs. Some stuff is gonna be missed on the first, second, even the third reading but, trust me, we're harvesting a bunch of developed plot seeds, planting more, and tossing some seed out in the field to see what'll happen to it in a few years down the line.

We're frying up sacred burgers at this point.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Duellist_D on <01-12-20/0432:08>
This doesn't sound well thought-out.
I mean, I get it, some writer(s) seem to really dislike cyber, but EMPs to basically kill all tech in several cities?
Really?
Just make a second pseudo-Earthdawn setting for your magical needs without that evil evil technology instead of screwing over SR...
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <01-12-20/0751:32>
This doesn't sound well thought-out.
I mean, I get it, some writer(s) seem to really dislike cyber, but EMPs to basically kill all tech in several cities?
Really?
Just make a second pseudo-Earthdawn setting for your magical needs without that evil evil technology instead of screwing over SR...

I'm not picking up what you're putting down. This doesn't sound at all like they're writing cyber out of the game.

A) the EMP'd cities are all in the UCAS.  So that means most of the world, heck most of North America even, are unaffected and never had their cyber fried out.

B) The teaser never said these are ongoing phenomenon. Sounds to me like it was a bunch of cities, but still "One and done". The UCAS is now a bunch of Redmond-style wastelands perhaps, but that doesn't mean that if your PC now goes into one of these (apparently) corp-made disaster zones that their cyber now stops working, too.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Michael Chandra on <01-12-20/0803:36>
Nanoware survived the Monads after all. Cyberware will survive the EMPs.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Duellist_D on <01-12-20/0841:08>
Sure, it's not all over the world, it's only in a major part of the Setting...

And regarding a wasteland: So any cyber-Chars currently playing there need to get a retroactive buttpull to be somewhere else during the critical time as to not end up as cripples and we end up with huge areas where playing anything tech oriented is quite realistically not feasible.
So, everything got (as in past tense) fried.
Great.
So, everyone living in the affected areas needs new vehicles, all technical convenience (waste disposal, communication, food processing, medical equipment, etc pp) is broken, but nobody can really earn any money to replace it and also has proper difficulty to access any existing digital funds.
So, going there, for a run as somebody from elsewhere, you might still have your whizz gear.
But then what?
Basically nothing to interact with as a Decker, because outside of milspec EMP hardened facilities, all interaction devices are dead and/or sensibly usually not yet replaced.
Oh, maybe you are a rigger? Great, then all your usually not that attention-gathering small drones stick out like a clown at a funeral, because all the common place drones in the environment are gone.
Same if you are the vehicle guy.
Your inconspicuous "Cletus and Co, Handyman's Service" Van to get your team around in secret is suddenly not so secret anymore because it's one of maybe 5 working Vehicles in a 5 mile radius.
And if one of your precious toys gets damaged? Oh golly, have fun finding someone to get replacement parts from, without a margin to reflect "hey I'm the only guy in the whole city who can fix your Flying Eye.
Having obvious Cyber in working condition also sure sounds like fun now.
"Look, this guy has cybereyes, he obviously is from outside and probably up to no good, all eyes on him"
Really sounds like a massive amount of enjoyable play to be had..
Meanwhile Mike Magick doesn't have to give a flying Soyfry, because lolmagic and can have a day of endless party, because who would bother him now if he does more flashy illegal stuff?
Security without license scanners, vehicles and few guns, in a country where thanks to the return to caseless ammo as a default, not even the industrial production of ammunition nis feasible anymore after an EMP?
Generally Muggles with sticks and stones?

If you want to play in this setting, you basically have to turn the wheel forward enough to have remedies for all the broken environment in place, thus basically nullifying all the changes, or have awakened be given an even more favorable playing field that properly screws all tech focused chars due to the lack (or severely taxed with additional hassle) of interactions in-game.
Sure, if awakened-only is your preferred playstyle, that might be fine, but there are also us players who don't enjoy being a partymember of "Gandalf and his useless Cyberhobbits".

As is said, this is not a well thought-out setting, quite the contrary. It looks like me as it's suffering from the "bigger, louder, farther"-syndrome, where one adds to many supposed awe-inducing items, but pays to little time on giving thought to secondary consequences.

I mean, Bug City 3.0 + EMPing most of the relevant UCAS + army eating mystical Fog + reconquista + borderline open war between country vs Corp (and I prolly forgot something anyways) is maybe, but just maybe a tiny bit much to sensibly cram into a single book and still let it make sense somehow?
I get it, you need a "next big thing" to get people into buying setting books instead of "expanded armory Nį17", but this is a bit too much of that.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <01-12-20/0911:08>
You've clearly made up your mind, so I'm going to try to tread carefully so this doesn't devolve into threadlocking.

On the topic of "what do you do for everyone in the party who's NOT playing MagicRun if the game is set in one of the affected cities?"
Well, you either 1) ignore the plot, 2) contrive something where they're out of town when it happens (You were doing a job in Seattle, or London, or Neo-Tokyo when this drek hit...)  or even 3) the PCs simply aren't affected.  Maybe they get word and go into a prepper's EMP-shielded bunker.  Or who knows, maybe the teaser didn't happen to fill us in that it was "only" 50% of cyber that died, not 100%.  PCs are special and have some plot armor; they can easily fit into the "privileged few" just because they're PCs.

On the topic of "how do you play anything but MagicRun in the aftermath of these events?"
According to the teaser, these events seem to be limited to the sprawls.  Know what sprawls are surrounded by? Not-Sprawl. Particularly "Mega City One", on the UCAS Atlantic seaboard from Boston to DeeCee.  What are people going to do? Go grab working devices from the suburbs and rural areas.  Ok sure, rioting mobs won't have guns and bumpkins will.  Desperate cityfolk will massively outnumber bumpkins and guns.  And on a more sophisticated scale: who's going to grab working tech and deliver it to powers that be? Shadowrunners.  So, yes. Most vehicles, for example, in UCAS sprawls will now be hulks, but neither will the rigger be driving the only working vehicle.

On the topic of "this is just too good for MagicRun, it's unaffected and everyone else is kicked to the curb!"
6we doesn't have rules for Background Counts yet, but I presume they're coming.  And MagicRun players should be seeing the exact opposite of a magical candyland gumgrop forest of easy pickings, thanks to the death and misery of the newly created devastation.

On the topic of "this isn't SHADOWrun, this is OMGBIGEVENTSrun!"
Eh, touche. Not everyone has to like everything, and if this isn't for you, it isn't for you.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Banshee on <01-12-20/0927:53>
Also to add ... it doesn't come anywhere as being that much of an apocalyptic MagicRun setting.

Doesn't ruin any previous canon or the setting ... this was not a simple case of setting off a bunch of EMP bombs to destroy all technology.  It was a very deliberate and precise strike with only temporary effects but long lasting consequences. Read the book to find out more.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: AJCarrington on <01-12-20/1508:38>
Read the book to find out more.

I think this sums things up for me pretty succinctly. At present, all we have are one personsí comments/thoughts and given the scope of the changes, Iíll need to dive and and see exactly how it plays I it and sits.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Michael Chandra on <01-12-20/1542:44>
Honestly, this whole mess seems the perfect moment for one of my KE NPCs to retire, which was in fact already planned for 2081. Perfect timing, really. ^_^
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Horsemen on <01-12-20/1638:13>
Honestly, this whole mess seems the perfect moment for one of my KE NPCs to retire, which was in fact already planned for 2081. Perfect timing, really. ^_^

I gather this NPC wouldn't feel ethically motivated to stay on and help those in need of law and order within what is now a zone of chaos?

Unless he is of course objecting to what Ares and Knight Errant are doing.  :o
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Michael Chandra on <01-12-20/1655:27>
Honestly, going freelancer and cutting a few deals with Dragons sounds like a better idea for him. ;D Urubia and Kalanyr both have interests they want protected, especially after <spoiler> did <spoiler> in the Free Seattle adventure.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Horsemen on <01-12-20/1714:11>
Honestly, going freelancer and cutting a few deals with Dragons sounds like a better idea for him. ;D Urubia and Kalanyr both have interests they want protected, especially after <spoiler> did <spoiler> in the Free Seattle adventure.

Fair and Exactly!  ;)
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: wraith on <01-17-20/0133:54>
Read the book to find out more.

I think this sums things up for me pretty succinctly. At present, all we have are one persons’ comments/thoughts and given the scope of the changes, I’ll need to dive and and see exactly how it plays I it and sits.

At the same time, nothing in that summary says to me that this is a thing I need to own or read, because at best it would generate a huge headache for me to use in game since my tables generally aren't Just Mages. There are precious few ways someone with most of their spine replaced with cyberware (wired reflexes) or heavy duty headware like an encephalon survives in those cities as described.  Especially a SINless someone who doesn't have a support system to get them medical treatment at the best of times... and with much of the transportation infrastructure run by Grid Guide down, the metroplex starts to starve in 72 hours at the outside.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Banshee on <01-17-20/0707:19>
Read the book to find out more.

I think this sums things up for me pretty succinctly. At present, all we have are one personsí comments/thoughts and given the scope of the changes, Iíll need to dive and and see exactly how it plays I it and sits.

At the same time, nothing in that summary says to me that this is a thing I need to own or read, because at best it would generate a huge headache for me to use in game since my tables generally aren't Just Mages. There are precious few ways someone with most of their spine replaced with cyberware (wired reflexes) or heavy duty headware like an encephalon survives in those cities as described.  Especially a SINless someone who doesn't have a support system to get them medical treatment at the best of times... and with much of the transportation infrastructure run by Grid Guide down, the metroplex starts to starve in 72 hours at the outside.

That's just it, there is a lot more to it than that ... nothing in Cutring Black has wiped out cyberware or infrastructure. Is there some deaths and whatnot caused by the blackouts ... yes, but it is nowhere near as bad as an apocalyptic setback to the stone ages that is being interpreted. It was all a very temporary thing done to chaos and assert control by some as yet unknown entities
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Aria on <01-17-20/0754:40>
Anyone know when the blackouts happen relative to the timeline?  I'm guessing that they will happen after Free Seattle (otherwise it would be improbable that it didn't play a part in that...), want to stick to canon as far as possible and looking forward to getting my hands on this (well the digital version anyway, no time/space for dead trees any more)
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Banshee on <01-17-20/0757:48>
Anyone know when the blackouts happen relative to the timeline?  I'm guessing that they will happen after Free Seattle (otherwise it would be improbable that it didn't play a part in that...), want to stick to canon as far as possible and looking forward to getting my hands on this (well the digital version anyway, no time/space for dead trees any more)

Honestly don't know a whole lot about Free Seattle,  but isn't the focus there on Seattle becoming a free state? If aobthat is one of the consequences of Cutting Black
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Sphinx on <01-17-20/1116:16>
Free Seattle is a series of shadowruns that take place during a summit in mid-2080 where dignitaries representing several factions meet to discuss the pros and cons of Seattle becoming an independent free state. As far as I can tell, the city blackouts in the UCAS happen after Free Seattle, but before Seattle declares independence.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Wakshaani on <01-18-20/0205:06>
Anyone know when the blackouts happen relative to the timeline?  I'm guessing that they will happen after Free Seattle (otherwise it would be improbable that it didn't play a part in that...), want to stick to canon as far as possible and looking forward to getting my hands on this (well the digital version anyway, no time/space for dead trees any more)

Sure.

The first one hits on All Hallow's Eve. The next few are within about 24 hours of that, but smaller in effect. a few more dribble in after that, but I forget the exact time frame. There's Ö ten-ish? In all? Maybe a dozen.

Lots of other stuff happen too, of course, but it all starts on Oct 31st, with Philly getting hit by the largest.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Michael Chandra on <01-18-20/0516:02>
Why didn't anyone tell me about Vogel and Knight?! O_O O_O O_O O_O O_O O______________O

Also, the Sea Dragon can go straight to hell as far as I'm concerned, but that's because I don't like people who kidnap babies.

As for my NPC, given how KE's screwed up by following the Ares party line, putting their contracts at risk, I'd say not only my NPC bailed, but his underlings also decided KE no longer holds a proper future for them. So my new headcanon is that four squads of KE Seattle HTR have now gone freelance and are cutting deals with Urubia and Kalanyr to do dirty work and security for them in cases where their interests aren't conflicting.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Wakshaani on <01-18-20/1013:48>
K and V is one of the things I was sitting on. I wasn't about to let THAT one slip. :D

Keep reading! There's more stuff in there. Mwu-hahaha.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Horsemen on <01-18-20/1708:06>
There are far worse things revealed within those pages! Already trying to work some of this into upcoming campaigns.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: TonyK on <01-21-20/2111:55>
Just did a search for the code name for the Ares operation in Detroit.  Per Wikipedia: "It is an aggressive but rather dubious choice for Black which often leads to wild and tricky positions."

No kidding.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: FastJack on <01-21-20/2139:10>
K and V is one of the things I was sitting on. I wasn't about to let THAT one slip. :D

Keep reading! There's more stuff in there. Mwu-hahaha.
Of course this ruins my mega-adventure that focuses on Aurelius' daughter stealing Ares from Knight... le sigh
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Beta on <01-21-20/2202:36>
I'd been working on a fan write up of Ottawa,  and an adventure involving the Ares facility in Sudbury,  never dreaming that canon would ever touch either of those areas!
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: 0B on <01-21-20/2210:27>
Seeing all the places that don't usually get action was one of the things I loved about Cutting Black. And they aren't generic little paragraphs with demographics and some local flavor, there's actual plotlines and usable grit in there! I kind of want to run a game in the AMC now...
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: FastJack on <01-22-20/0810:12>
Seeing all the places that don't usually get action was one of the things I loved about Cutting Black. And they aren't generic little paragraphs with demographics and some local flavor, there's actual plotlines and usable grit in there! I kind of want to run a game in the AMC now...
Philly love! w00t-w00t!
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Beta on <01-22-20/0856:56>
The one things that was odd was:
- 93% of the book: UCAS going to hell in a handbasket
- 4% UCAS neighbors taking advantage of that, but having their own struggles
- 3% The UK is doing great!
- 0% The rest of the world

It rather feels likes the UCAS will be fairly irrelevant to the world after this, and going forward the focus should be more on the rest of the world?
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: FastJack on <01-22-20/0941:39>
The one things that was odd was:
- 92% of the book: UCAS going to hell in a handbasket
- 4% UCAS neighbors taking advantage of that, but having their own struggles
- 3% The UK is doing great!
- 0% The rest of the world

It rather feels likes the UCAS will be fairly irrelevent to the world after this, and going forward the focus should be more on the rest of the world?
JKinda? I mean Seattle, Denver, and St. Louis are all independent cities now. UCAS is shrinking, so either that will continue or there will be some plot hook later on that brings them back.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Beta on <01-22-20/1000:16>
The one things that was odd was:
- 93% of the book: UCAS going to hell in a handbasket
- 4% UCAS neighbors taking advantage of that, but having their own struggles
- 3% The UK is doing great!
- 0% The rest of the world

It rather feels likes the UCAS will be fairly irrelevent to the world after this, and going forward the focus should be more on the rest of the world?
JKinda? I mean Seattle, Denver, and St. Louis are all independent cities now. UCAS is shrinking, so either that will continue or there will be some plot hook later on that brings them back.

Maybe playing devil's advocate more than joking?  What I expect is that the SR universe will stay focused on what is currently the USA, with Pegasus adding items about the german speaking areas of Europe -- because they are going to put out material that they expect to most interest their player base.

But barring another plot swerve, what I think should happen is that the focus of megacorp research, development, production, and marketing would be shifting to more stable and prosperous areas than the UCAS.  Not that there is any paradise in the SR timeline, but most of Europe and Asia seem relatively stable, the Indian sub-continent should be recovering, China seems to have stopped its wars (?), parts of Africa seem to be be being brought along well.  And of course it would seem that the CAS, NAN nations, and lately even Atzlan are having a good run.

Why invest in an area that is if not quite still collapsing is at best heavily damaged with little prospect of much prosperity for a generation?  Where is the profit?  What is the cost of operating there?  Sure there will be some business lines in agriculture and infrastructure where there will be on-going work, but the UCAS and state governments aren't going to be able to afford to invest heavily, so even there the money is not going to be huge, so those become secondary focuses, more of a corporate backwater.

So how much demand should there be for runners, in a backwater?  I don't really expect the next supplement to be based in Bangalore or Nairobi or Moscow, I just think it would make sense.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: Banshee on <01-22-20/1055:07>
The one things that was odd was:
- 93% of the book: UCAS going to hell in a handbasket
- 4% UCAS neighbors taking advantage of that, but having their own struggles
- 3% The UK is doing great!
- 0% The rest of the world

It rather feels likes the UCAS will be fairly irrelevent to the world after this, and going forward the focus should be more on the rest of the world?
JKinda? I mean Seattle, Denver, and St. Louis are all independent cities now. UCAS is shrinking, so either that will continue or there will be some plot hook later on that brings them back.

Maybe playing devil's advocate more than joking?  What I expect is that the SR universe will stay focused on what is currently the USA, with Pegasus adding items about the german speaking areas of Europe -- because they are going to put out material that they expect to most interest their player base.

But barring another plot swerve, what I think should happen is that the focus of megacorp research, development, production, and marketing would be shifting to more stable and prosperous areas than the UCAS.  Not that there is any paradise in the SR timeline, but most of Europe and Asia seem relatively stable, the Indian sub-continent should be recovering, China seems to have stopped its wars (?), parts of Africa seem to be be being brought along well.  And of course it would seem that the CAS, NAN nations, and lately even Atzlan are having a good run.

Why invest in an area that is if not quite still collapsing is at best heavily damaged with little prospect of much prosperity for a generation?  Where is the profit?  What is the cost of operating there?  Sure there will be some business lines in agriculture and infrastructure where there will be on-going work, but the UCAS and state governments aren't going to be able to afford to invest heavily, so even there the money is not going to be huge, so those become secondary focuses, more of a corporate backwater.

So how much demand should there be for runners, in a backwater?  I don't really expect the next supplement to be based in Bangalore or Nairobi or Moscow, I just think it would make sense.

There may not be as stable and attractive from a pure profit bottom line but that instability is what should actually promote shadow work in the UCAS as the various governments and corporations now fight to gain control over territories that are now in dispute. It not a shift in where the work is but rather what the targets and end goals are.
Title: Re: Shadowrun Cutting Black Sourcebook Review Posted
Post by: CanRay on <01-22-20/2316:29>
...and an adventure involving the Ares facility in Sudbury,  never dreaming that canon would ever touch either of those areas!
Great, now I'm homesick.