Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: MTCE on <08-14-19/1916:19>

Title: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: MTCE on <08-14-19/1916:19>
I realize many of the posters here don't actually have the SR6 CRB yet. Those of you who do, however, perhaps can answer this question. Step 4 Spend Customization Karma (pg 66) seems pretty specific that the 50 bonus Karma can ONLY be spent on Attributes, Skills, and extra nuyen for Gear. Yet the character advancement chart on the next page includes Karma costs for new specializations, spells/complex forms, and Initiation/Submersion. Can you buy such things with the bonus Karma or not? I think no but (naturally) my players want to burn down the city right out of the gate because they're drekheads.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-14-19/1930:20>
I'm of the persuasion that step 4 gives an exhaustive list of things that karma may be spent on: attributes, skills, qualities, and resources.  So, no spells. No bonding foci. No initiating. Such things are covered by the character advancement section that follows the steps for character generation, and the steps of character generation never give access to that section.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: Hephaestus on <08-14-19/2142:02>
I don't think the intention was to be ONLY for those things, or it would have been explicitly stated. It doesn't really matter if the skill/attribute points come from priority or karma, they get used the same way.

And since things like Exotic Weapon forced Specializations exist, and any character can walk out of chargen with an Ares Alpha or a Yamaha Raiden that requires that skill to not blow yourself up with.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-14-19/2149:16>
See, that's the thing: It WAS explicitly stated.

Step 4 only allows those 4 things.  No other character generation step says "oh, and you can also spend karma on the stuff in the Character Advancement section, too".
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: KatoHearts on <08-14-19/2247:36>
There's no limit on carrying karma over from gen or anything that says you lose unspent karma. So do it after gen I guess. Additionally, the example characters, such as the mage's spell list, don't line up with what's possible in chargen currently so it's just not clear. Either the archetypes are flawed or the chargen system is.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-14-19/2343:13>
There's a very good chance the list is exhaustive. In SR5 it was too so no Initiation in chargen, only in full character advancement after your first run.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: markelphoenix on <08-15-19/0809:01>
From what I've been hearing on CharGen, sounds like it's a bit off. Unless I am mistaken, Rank A Magic is 4 Magic, which gives 8 Spells, and no way to get more Spells in Chargen....
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: FastJack on <08-15-19/0810:17>
I know that's being discussed in Errata, my own feelings are that if you up magic in CharGen, it ups spells/power points. We'll see how it shakes out.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-15-19/0811:41>
For PP I'd like that but I do like your magic priority hurts you as a mage or mystic.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: kr3wZ on <08-15-19/1408:40>
I have a question regarding Qualities at CharGen.  It states that you can have a max of 6, and your bonus karma can't go over 20.  No mention of what happens with the karma you spent.

Then in the next section about spending karma at CharGen, it mentions you get 50 bonus karma to spend on other stuff.

I'm just assuming the deficit of karma (if any) after the first part comes out of that 50 bonus you get for the next step?
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-15-19/1426:35>
The way I see it:

You identify the qualities you want in step 3.

You pay for them in step 4. (and step 4 is where you get your up-to-20 bonus karma from negative qualities, as well)

It makes easy sense that way.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: kr3wZ on <08-15-19/1430:46>
Quote
It makes easy sense that way.

It does, and that's how I read it at first.  Only after creating another character did I realize it never mentioned specifically what happens with the Karma if you come out with a negative amount.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on <08-15-19/1438:57>
From how itís been described the keep net 20 makes sense to me. What I donít get is why they would limit where you can spend it if they allow you to save it. Is it really that big of a issue to have to wait until after your first run before you get 4 spells or whatever.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-15-19/1444:43>
From how itís been described the keep net 20 makes sense to me. What I donít get is why they would limit where you can spend it if they allow you to save it. Is it really that big of a issue to have to wait until after your first run before you get 4 spells or whatever.

Speaking to opinion:

I like that the magic priority selection has real bite... if you can't spend karma on spells you can't just pick Magic D and spend a bunch of karma to shore it up to match what someone who picked A will have.

That being said: my opinion isn't a formal ruling.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-15-19/1448:27>
Quote
It makes easy sense that way.

It does, and that's how I read it at first.  Only after creating another character did I realize it never mentioned specifically what happens with the Karma if you come out with a negative amount.
There is a rule example hinting negatives help get more customisation karma but you're right the section is suffering from change blindness that makes it tricky for new people. Intent is that the net bonus/cost carries over into the 50.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on <08-15-19/1505:59>
From how itís been described the keep net 20 makes sense to me. What I donít get is why they would limit where you can spend it if they allow you to save it. Is it really that big of a issue to have to wait until after your first run before you get 4 spells or whatever.

Speaking to opinion:

I like that the magic priority selection has real bite... if you can't spend karma on spells you can't just pick Magic D and spend a bunch of karma to shore it up to match what someone who picked A will have.

That being said: my opinion isn't a formal ruling.

Imo it fails at that. Itís just annoying and you just play a less fun character for a couple sessions.  Losing out on attributes and skills is bite. Buying a few spells after char gen isnít.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: Hobbes on <08-17-19/1041:10>

Speaking to opinion:

I like that the magic priority selection has real bite... if you can't spend karma on spells you can't just pick Magic D and spend a bunch of karma to shore it up to match what someone who picked A will have.

That being said: my opinion isn't a formal ruling.

FWIW I agree.  Magic D is the 1rst Level D&D mage thats going to spend the next 4 runs just learning new spells.  The Magic A Mage is going to start initiating right away but will have given up something (Probably Attributes) to pick those spells up.

Also, it's not like 5 Adjustment points are free.  That's a C Metatype Priority.  So A Magic with E Metatype D Metatype, or D Magic and C Metatype to get Magic up to 6.

Edit: Derp, Edition Bleed.  A Magic still needs a D Metatype to get to 6 Magic without Karma. 
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: markelphoenix on <08-31-19/0438:15>

Speaking to opinion:

I like that the magic priority selection has real bite... if you can't spend karma on spells you can't just pick Magic D and spend a bunch of karma to shore it up to match what someone who picked A will have.

That being said: my opinion isn't a formal ruling.

FWIW I agree.  Magic D is the 1rst Level D&D mage thats going to spend the next 4 runs just learning new spells.  The Magic A Mage is going to start initiating right away but will have given up something (Probably Attributes) to pick those spells up.

Also, it's not like 5 Adjustment points are free.  That's a C Metatype Priority.  So A Magic with E Metatype D Metatype, or D Magic and C Metatype to get Magic up to 6.

Edit: Derp, Edition Bleed.  A Magic still needs a D Metatype to get to 6 Magic without Karma.

Yeah, not a fan of how they handle Magic + Spells in CharGen.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-31-19/0505:58>
I like the active restriction, since it gives a big bite to the Magic Priority.

Mystics and Adepts got bungled though imo. I'm eagerly awaiting errata.
Title: Re: SR6 Character Creation question
Post by: penllawen on <08-31-19/0543:52>
I like that the magic priority selection has real bite... if you can't spend karma on spells you can't just pick Magic D and spend a bunch of karma to shore it up to match what someone who picked A will have.
Same. I think itís a conscious rebalancing of how powerful mages should be fresh out of chargen. Iíd go further: put Magic 6 at the top of the priority chart, but forbid all increase to the magic stat from chargen attribute point or karma. I like it when players have to make difficult choices.

But admittedly Iím of the opinion that mages could use some nerf stick, and not everyone agrees with me on that.

Reduced caps on Magic and spell count can also be used to make mages meaningful in street level campaigns, unlike in SR5 where street level mages were no different to normal but street level cyber types were very constrained.