Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Moonrunner on <08-05-19/1354:46>

Title: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-05-19/1354:46>
Can I make an Elf character be a badass agility fighter that can compete with Trolls?

What should I make him? How should I make him? I have he 6e core rulebook now.  I want him to be good with guns also.

An Adept or maybe a Street Samurai?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Singularity on <08-05-19/2135:26>
This should probably be in the Character Creation & Critique section of the forums, I think.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: FastJack on <08-05-19/2215:32>
This should probably be in the Character Creation & Critique section of the forums, I think.
You are correct!
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on <08-06-19/0000:27>
Not many people have the book yet, but I guess the questions would be.

1.  How much do you want to min max.
2.  Is an adept fine.
3. Is cyber/bioware fine.
4.  Is both fine.

Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-06-19/0215:08>
On soak you'll be behind so I'd go with an augmented street sam using big weapons. Adepts face the nerf on Attribute Boost so I suspect they have it harder coming out of the gates. If you want to Unarmed, grab 6 [9] Strength and bone boosting for 7 DV. Melee electrical weapons are always nice due to Zapped, ranged BF lets you use Anticipation once in a while. Best combined with ambidextrous if you frequently want to.

Consider flashpaks to bully trolls trying to clobber you.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: wylie on <08-09-19/1311:54>
Yes you can
Watch Twilight sins on YouTube for example of a badass elf

Body is your most important stat if you plan tanking
Still important if you go another route

Study the cyberware and bioware carefully
Some options to help make a true street samurai

Decide what you want to be best at, combatwise.
Firearms or close combat

Reread cyberware and bioware to see what will boost your choices

I have half built an elven street samurai, but I started with concept, then cyberwate costs, before actually worrying about assigning priorities and figuring out where points will go

My elf on paper looks to be an even match for the combat Archtypes in the book

Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-11-19/0234:18>
I have the 6e core rulebook and want to make a great beast of a character but I am not sure what to roll.  I am trying to decide between Elf and Troll for race.  I like that Trolls are big and tough but I love the looks and feel of Elves. 

I am not sure if I want to go Combat Mage or Adept or Street Samurai. 

Help me please and give me some tips to help me make a combat badass with these in mind.  I am fine with being a melee beast with some good gun skill or a gun bunny with some good melee skill or instead, a badass Combat Mage.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Xenon on <08-11-19/0615:51>
I think that you should start thinking of the concept, the background, what drives you as a character. Rather than starting with the mechanics behind it...


Having said that, game mechanic wise when it comes to combat an elf have the potential for a lot higher agility and charisma while the troll have the potential for a lot higher body and strength.

This mean that Elf is mechanically better suited as a magician following the shamanistic tradition but will also deal more damage with both melee weapons and firearms.... while the Troll is mechanically better suited for unarmed combat and bows and also have the potential to soak more damage.

Neither have any offensive advantages nor disadvantages when it comes to the hermetic tradition, but since the troll have access to more soak he might mechanically be the slightly better option of the two for a magician of this tradition, at least in the long run.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonshine Fox on <08-11-19/1258:45>
Youíd probably want to take this question over to the character creation forum. To comment though, youíll want to give us an idea of what type of character youíre going for thematically wise so we can give you more focused mechanical ideas.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Typhus on <08-11-19/1313:50>
See my post titled Mayor McCheeselord for a partial example of a troll build.

How it works out is that a troll build can *soak up* more damage than any other build.  They don't deflect it with high armor any more.  I'm eyeballing it here, but it would seem that they will be able to sustain about 4-5 solid hits in combat, done right, compared to the 2-3 most characters can absorb.  Not accounting for Stupid Edge Tricks, that is.

On the other side, a toon with high reaction high intuition character is your best bet for not taking damage in the first place, since that's your defense roll.  You'll also want a basket of Stupid Edge Tricks to use, so you can maximize your Edge gains and spends when dodging, evading, etc.  High athletics is good too.

Assuming you can figure out how all the various edge powers work, evading damage is the way to deal with combat now.  Slow trolls will now get hit pretty often, even if they usually gain Edge for the hit, and have more wound penalties at the upper end.  They also will need more healing way more often, and if they are cybered, you get penalized there too.

I suppose this was a way to incentivize even the supertrolls against standing in damage all the time, but it's a reality breaker that armor has no measurable effect when they do.  All armor (DR in general) does is better ensure a consistent Edge recharge rate if attacked, which means you have to be standing in damage to obtain it.  Not a great trade off. 

Mayor McCheeselord the Troll will almost always gain Edge when attacked, but all that does is to unlock the full array of Edge options when it happens.  I can do Stupid Edge Tricks on whoever attacks me first to best soak whatever that attack might be.  Who knows, maybe I will survive that first grenade after all.  If I don't use dice tricks, I'll take most of what anyone else would take anyway.  Even if the Edge saves my hoop on the first attack, it's a feeble argument that my armor actually much the lift there, because what really did it was my existing Edge pool getting nudged from "most of the options" to "all of the options".  The table experience of armor is minimal, even if the game effect is to unlock superior options.  Once I make a 5 Edge spend, then all those options vanish until I have stood in damage for at least 3 more turns to recharge it (assuming no other environmental factors can help me out). 

It strongly feels like the character that can evade damage will enjoy combat more.  Standing there eating damage, even if you can still function mostly fine afterwards (due to Pain Editors or what all) is less fun than taking 0 damage.  Taking 0 damage is what made the unstoppatrolls appealing.  That's gone in this edition.  If you want to have the take 0 damage experience, speed builds are your only route to go.  Even then, your dice pool max is not ever going to be much higher than your attacker's dice pool (as far as I can tell), so Edge Tricks and a high Edge Pool will be the thing that lets you have the experience when your dice go colder than your attackers.  Adepts may have some option for exceeding normal limits because they can buy skill dice. 

Go with high Attributes priority, and dump points into Reaction + Intuition and put meta points into Edge for the build.  Research the adept powers and cyber/bioware to see which gives you the best defensive options for Edge tricks.  As a secondary consideration, figure out a couple game plans for when you get hit anyway.  Do you want more damage boxes to take a bigger hit?  Do you want damage comps to prevent penalties so you have a better chance to keep dodging at your baseline while you run away?  Do you want auto-injectors to dump drugs into you when your biomonitor implant says it's time?  Or maybe you are just going to lean on the team's healer, and go in as an adept who is easy to heal.

Combat in 6 has reduced reward options without Edge.  You won't get spectacular hits (without Edge) and you won't make incredible dodges or soaks (without Edge).  The balance in 6 is around enforcing mediocrity as the baseline, and exceeding it only through the metamechanic, not through something you inherently built into an optimized state by the raw numbers of dice (other than optimizing how you can spend or gain the metacurrency).

Dodgey McEdgepants will have more inherent rewards between combats than a Mayor McCheeselord too.  You'll forever be struggling to heal up the Mayor by any means and paying the downtime tax waiting for him to heal between encounters.  You sideline your bullet sponge after every combat, or else see him degrade in effectiveness long before you get to the climax of the game (forget doing ticking clock runs with the Mayor). 

Dodgey ends up with less hits on the board, stays in combat longer since he's better at dodging, and spends less downtime healing up the lesser damage he took.  If he's an adept, he can be healed immediately by magic, and get back into the next fight like it's a video game.  If he's cybered though, that effect is strongly reduced, and he ends up paying the downtime tax to get back in the fight at full capacity.  So once again, in all aspects of that build, magic rules, mundanes drool.

Enjoy Magicrun!
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Arglebargle on <08-11-19/1931:48>

My elf on paper looks to be an even match for the combat Archetypes in the book

To be fair, that's not a high mark.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-11-19/2029:48>
I think I want to make sn Elf Physical Adept that uses melee weapons and pistols as well.

Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-11-19/2258:58>
Also, is there a downloadable character sheet available anywhere?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-12-19/0022:55>
Ok.  I think I am going to try rolling up an Elf Physical Adept.  Any suggestions on priorities on the Priority Tale? Should I do Magic as Priority A?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-12-19/0028:58>
That depends on the exact clarification how adepts are supposed to work PP-wise in chargen.  :-\ Under current RAW of Chargen I'd say it's a really tough choice
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-12-19/0125:33>
So, I began work on my Elf Adept.  Here is what I have so far:

I set priorities as A (Attributes - 24), B (Magic - Adept 3), C (Metatype - Elf 9), Skills (16 pts), E (Resources (8,000 Nyuen)

My Attributes look like this far after allocating my 24 build pts and 9 Meta pts:

Body: 4
Agility: 6
Reaction: 6
Strength: 4

Willpower: 3
Logic: 5
Intuition: 5
Charisma: 3

Edge: 5
Essence:
Magic: 4

I think that you do not begin with any pts in Edge, so you have to dump pts into it from your Metatype to have any pts in it.

I have 16 pts to put into Skills as my next part of character creation before spending my 8,000 nyuen on equipment and looking at adept powers.  I also have to spend 50 pts of Karma on improvements as well.

Any feedback so far?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-12-19/0139:35>
I think Edge is supposed to start at 1 just like normal attributes

The most annoying thing about raising Magic in chargen is that under strict RAW, you're losing out on a Power Point that you can never get back by increasing Magic now. If you're playing a homegame, check with your GM because I strongly disagree with it. (Maybe have some sort of training process to unlock the Point over time.) Under SRM, you'll have to wait for the Missions FAQ and/or official FAQ/clarifications.

Attribute-wise you're solid, Strength not too low so you're not easily disarmed / grappled. Logic seems a bit unusual, why not Willpower as primary mental?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-12-19/0203:51>
I think Edge is supposed to start at 1 just like normal attributes

The most annoying thing about raising Magic in chargen is that under strict RAW, you're losing out on a Power Point that you can never get back by increasing Magic now. If you're playing a homegame, check with your GM because I strongly disagree with it. (Maybe have some sort of training process to unlock the Point over time.) Under SRM, you'll have to wait for the Missions FAQ and/or official FAQ/clarifications.

Attribute-wise you're solid, Strength not too low so you're not easily disarmed / grappled. Logic seems a bit unusual, why not Willpower as primary mental?

Thanks for the feedback.  I had not looked at Adept powers and stuff yet so I had assumed Logic was the main stat for that.  I can easily change it to Willpower though if that is what I'd need instead.

As for Edge starting at 1, I cannot find that in the core rulebook.  Is that how it works? I really hope so.  The book mentions that all physical and mental attributes begin at 1 but says not all races begin with points in special attributes.  But nowhere does it seem to mention a race starting with anything in the special attributes.  The race section does not seem to mention it.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-12-19/0207:20>
Page 156: Adepts resist drain with Body + Willpower. So I'd switch out Logic for Willpower and keep Intuition high, both for combat and for Perception.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-12-19/0212:05>
After the Logic/Willpower switcharoo my stats now look like this:

Body: 4
Agility: 6
Reaction: 6
Strength: 4

Willpower: 5
Logic: 3
Intuition: 5
Charisma: 3

Edge: 5
Essence:
Magic: 4

If Edge does indeed start at 1 that will refund 1 more pt to me that I will dump into Intuition.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Xenon on <08-12-19/0727:48>
I just want to inform that there is also a whole section of the forum dedicated to specifically character builds and chargen advice over here :
https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?board=21.0

Your other thread where you asked the exact same question have already been moved there, and odds are that this thread will also be moved (or merged with your other thread).
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: FastJack on <08-12-19/0747:18>
I just want to inform that there is also a whole section of the forum dedicated to specifically character builds and chargen advice over here :
https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?board=21.0

Your other thread where you asked the exact same question have already been moved there, and odds are that this thread will also be moved (or merged with your other thread).
Another "You are correct!"
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Hobbes on <08-12-19/0915:46>
Metatype   E
Attributes   A
Skills   C
Magic   D
Resources   B

   
S   5 (9)
A   7 (11)
R   5 (8  )
B   3  (+4 to Soak)
I   5
L   2
C   2
W   3
Magic 1
Essence 0.31
Edge 2

                     Karma
Close Combat   6   
Stealth          4   
Perception          5   
Athletics           5   
Engineering   1    5
Con                   1    5
Influence           1    5
Outdoors           1    5
      
Specializations      
Archery               5
Acting               5
Unarmed               5
Visual               5

Other Karma spends
Magic +1               5
Qualities               4
Nuyen               1
   Total:                50


Qualities
Dermal Deposits      12
Mentor Spirit, Thunderbird      10
Impaired Logic  2      -16
Addiction 1 Week      -2

Adept Powers   
Critical Strike   Thunderbird
Critical Strike   1 PP

Augment   
Bone Density   4  alpha
Muscle Replace   4  Used
Synap   3  Used

50,500 Nuyen remaining.  2 Knowledge skills remain. 

7 DV Unarmed Damage, with 19 Dice.  Should be one-shotting most stuff.  Could pick up 2 more Karma from Negative Qualities if you want.

For a Katana user dump Str and Dermal Deposits, put the attribute points into Body and Charisma.  You lose a point of DV, but you're still scary.

Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-12-19/0935:20>
The points you spend on positive qualities are supposed to count against the 50 points you get in step 4.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-12-19/1108:14>
The points you spend on positive qualities are supposed to count against the 50 points you get in step 4.

Is this comment aimed at the build I posted or the one by Stainless Steel Devil Rat just above?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-12-19/1117:38>
Both really, but mainly at Hobbes'... if I understand what he did.  It looks like he spent 50 karma on attributes and skills, and then some additional amount of karma on positive qualities offset by negative qualities.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-12-19/1147:12>
Both really, but mainly at Hobbes'... if I understand what he did.  It looks like he spent 50 karma on attributes and skills, and then some additional amount of karma on positive qualities offset by negative qualities.

I had not spent Karma yet on my build but I am glad you mentioned this.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-12-19/1152:05>
Both really, but mainly at Hobbes'... if I understand what he did.  It looks like he spent 50 karma on attributes and skills, and then some additional amount of karma on positive qualities offset by negative qualities.

I had not spent Karma yet on my build but I am glad you mentioned this.

Also keep in mind that there's likely errata or a FAQ forthcoming that adds/clarifies that you lose Power Points when you lose Magic. But in the interim, Hobbes is right about it never saying that happens.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Hobbes on <08-12-19/1654:19>
Depends on what Burnout rules the Errata team adopts, yes.  It's RAW for the moment.

Some editions Burnout happens at Magic 0, 5e it was when Max Magic equals 0. 

Spent 46 karma on "stuff", 22 Karma on Positive Qualities, 18 Bonus Karma from Negative Qualities.  I think that lands at net 50 spent? 
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-12-19/1659:30>
Ah yes I was mistaken.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-12-19/1716:59>
What weapons does that build use, Hobbes? Not katana, right?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-12-19/1955:41>
Also, does anyone know if Edge starts at 1? I think it likely does.

Also, what do the 1   5 entries mean on the character you made, Stainless Steel Devil Rat?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-12-19/1959:18>
Also, does anyone know if Edge starts at 1? I think it likely does.

Edge starts at 1 for everyone, even Humans.

Quote
Also, what do the 1   5 entries mean on the character you made, Stainless Steel Devil Rat?

I think you mean Hobbes. I didn't post a character, I just kibitzed :)
But what it looks like he did was he has 1 rank in that skill, and the 5 designates that he spent 5 karma to get it rather than having allocated a skill point.  Which, btw, is a smart way to use skill points. Much smarter than giving a skill only 1 rank by way of giving it 1 skill point.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-12-19/2007:29>
Also, does anyone know if Edge starts at 1? I think it likely does.

Edge starts at 1 for everyone, even Humans.

Quote
Also, what do the 1   5 entries mean on the character you made, Stainless Steel Devil Rat?

I think you mean Hobbes. I didn't post a character, I just kibitzed :)
But what it looks like he did was he has 1 rank in that skill, and the 5 designates that he spent 5 karma to get it rather than having allocated a skill point.  Which, btw, is a smart way to use skill points. Much smarter than giving a skill only 1 rank by way of giving it 1 skill point.

I see...he spent 5 Karma pts to get 1 rank in each of those skills.  Thank you all for helping a n00b like me so much.  I sincerely appreciate you all! I am learning a lot.

If I go with Hobbes' build (gosh I wish I could find a 6e character sheet somewhere to download to map this out) and use it as my elf what gear do you all recommend, including Cyberware or Bioware? I know I need to keep Cyber and Bio to a as lower than 1 Essense losss for my Magic.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-12-19/2016:09>
Well the question of what, if any, augmentations you buy for a magician is a very tricky one. I'm going to answer as if magic loss will impose a Power Point loss as well.

So 1 point of essence is a threshold you probably don't want to go past, unless you really want to burn out and just have a few adept powers to go with your cyberware, rather than the other way around.  Inside that 1 essence... what's best really depends on what your adept is going to do. 

Is he going to be a fighter? A talker? A driver? A hacker? A covert ops ninja type? What's good for one will usually be sub-optimal for the others when you're only looking to spend at most 1.0 essence.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-12-19/2041:26>
I see him as a frontline fighter with some stealthy ability as well. 
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-12-19/2057:15>
Well, there's two schools of thought in 5e on this.  Either double up cyberware and adept powers to get super uber awesome at some thing, better than anyone could ever be solely thru cyber or magic alone.... and using cyber/bio to gain abilities so that you don't have to spend adept powers on it.

As of 6we, the first school of thought is more or less extinct.  You can't ever get more than +4 bonus dice to any skill test, so there's no "stacking cyber and magic to do what neither could do alone".  Pretty much leaves the 2nd avenue.

You want to do fighting and you want to do sneaking.  You can use augmentations to shore up the option between the two to be your secondary facet and use adept powers for the primary.

Fighting secondary: Get something like bone lacing. You won't need to spend power points on killing hands, and of course it gives defensive bonuses as well.
Sneaking secondary: A Reflex Recorder for Sneaking would be a great buy, allowing you to buy more bonus dice via Adept powers for your Close Combat and/or Firearms skills.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-12-19/2103:00>
It looks like Hobbes had the following on this build for augmentation:

Augment
Bone Density   4  alpha
Muscle Replace   4  Used
Synap   3  Used
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-12-19/2110:53>
It looks like Hobbes had the following on this build for augmentation:

Augment
Bone Density   4  alpha
Muscle Replace   4  Used
Synap   3  Used

He spent 5.45 essence though.  That's a bet on there never being a fix on Power Points and essence loss.  My opinion is that's not a safe bet ;)
A rough rule of thumb when you're considering cyberware vs bioware options that more or less do the same thing (like bone lacing vs bone density): the cyberware option is more nuyen friendly, and the bioware option is more essence friendly.  Essence friendly is key, yes, but then again so is nuyen depending on where your resources priority is.


Another option for a minimal essence outlay would be to get cybereyes and/or cyberears, letting you crank up sensory advantages w/o spending power points.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-12-19/2322:50>
Also, does anyone know what the Archetypes in the core rulebook are meant for? Can you grab one and just play it as-is or do you have to add some points to them? The book doesn't really explain them at all.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: FastJack on <08-12-19/2349:14>
Archetypes are always the grab-and-go character you can use instead of building your own.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-13-19/0009:09>
Archetypes are always the grab-and-go character you can use instead of building your own.

Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-13-19/0037:06>
I advice against using a katana since it's a two-handed weapon by description. For a two-handed weapon it usually sucks.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-13-19/0137:55>
Should I just use Shock Gloves?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-13-19/1711:32>
For Attributes are the numbers in parenthesis after each attribute the cost in buying the attribute to that level?

S   5 (9)
A   7 (11)
R   5 (8  )
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-13-19/1728:43>
No, character advancement costs are based on your rank, while the number in parenthesis is the augmented value. You can see in the section below that adjusted attribute and current attribute rank are two separate entities.

"Various things modify attributes,
such as spells and gear, but a characterís
adjusted attribute can never be higher
than their current attribute rank +4."
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-13-19/1825:43>
So I am assuming this character has a Reaction of 8 due to 5 in the attribute + 1 from Synaptic Booster (3 ranks in this).
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-13-19/2337:26>
Yeah Synaptic 3 gives +3 Rea, but the rank is 5 so it'd be 30 karma to raise to 6.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-14-19/0037:22>
Yeah Synaptic 3 gives +3 Rea, but the rank is 5 so it'd be 30 karma to raise to 6.

Are you saying he miscalculated?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-14-19/0048:20>
No, calculations are fine: Synaptic Boosters 3 and 5 Reaction will give 5(5+3=8) Reaction, adding Intuition 5 will make it 13+4d6 Initiative and 13 base defense dice against attacks. (Remember that you cannot actually deactivate Synaptic Boosters, so you'll always be using the augmented values.)

If you want to ever raise Reaction to 6(9), it costs you the 5->6 in Karma aka 6 (new rank) * 5 (karma baseline) = 30 karma.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: markelphoenix on <08-14-19/0832:10>
No, character advancement costs are based on your rank, while the number in parenthesis is the augmented value. You can see in the section below that adjusted attribute and current attribute rank are two separate entities.

"Various things modify attributes,
such as spells and gear, but a characterís
adjusted attribute can never be higher
than their current attribute rank +4."

So if someone gets Muscle Aug IV, raising agility to 6(10), and a mage casts Increase Attribute Agility, it does nothing for the person with Muscle Aug IV?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-14-19/0839:09>
Correct. Even if the two boosts allow stacking, they still face the maximum adjusted value.

Muscle Augmentation mentions not being compatible with other augmentations, Increase Attribute mentions no restriction, so they should combine. If I have Muscle Aug II, then Increase Agility can in fact boost me from 6(8) to 6(10) with 2 net hits. This means that in SR6, buffing someone with Increase Attribute who's already boosted is cheaper drainwise (rather than more intensive drainwise, which it was in SR5).
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: markelphoenix on <08-14-19/0915:45>
Correct. Even if the two boosts allow stacking, they still face the maximum adjusted value.

Muscle Augmentation mentions not being compatible with other augmentations, Increase Attribute mentions no restriction, so they should combine. If I have Muscle Aug II, then Increase Agility can in fact boost me from 6(8) to 6(10) with 2 net hits. This means that in SR6, buffing someone with Increase Attribute who's already boosted is cheaper drainwise (rather than more intensive drainwise, which it was in SR5).

If Muscle Augmentation is not compatible with other augmentations, isn't Increase Attribute a type of Augmentation? Wouldn't that mean they are applied separately, so you would apply Muscle Aug II, Increase Attribute II, and still have 6(8), or if you did Muscle Aug II, Increase Attribute IV, you would have 6(10), but it would only really be applying the Increase Attribute because it is the higher Augmentation?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: markelphoenix on <08-14-19/0918:40>
Correct. Even if the two boosts allow stacking, they still face the maximum adjusted value.

Muscle Augmentation mentions not being compatible with other augmentations, Increase Attribute mentions no restriction, so they should combine. If I have Muscle Aug II, then Increase Agility can in fact boost me from 6(8) to 6(10) with 2 net hits. This means that in SR6, buffing someone with Increase Attribute who's already boosted is cheaper drainwise (rather than more intensive drainwise, which it was in SR5).

Also, how does this work with Power Foci? Does Power Foci actually Augment Magic? I.E., if I had a F4 Power Foci, would I then have 6(10) Magic, or would I still have 6 Magic and an Augmentation to all my Magic Rolls?

If it is the second, then does that mean once I get a Power Foci of F4, I no longer need any Foci that would raise my Spellcasting or Conjuring specifically, because it would not apply due to bumping the Augmentation past +4? I really hope it is Power Foci Augments Magic, so that you can still use Spellcasting Foci etc.

Also, what about Drain? If I Increase Attribute Willpower IV, then do Centering as Initiation, does it look at Willpower being Augmented and then my Drain rolls being Augmented by the Centering, thus being separate and do "stack"?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: FastJack on <08-14-19/0936:50>
Quote from: CRB p, 39
Augmentations

Augmentations are alterations to a physical body that enhance an individualís capabilities to some degree. It may be a limb that increases strength and agility, it may be armor plates woven into the skin, or it may be replacement glands or organs that enhance existing capabilities or add new ones. Augmentations are listed starting on p. 282.

Augmentations are physical 'ware.

Foci are not augmentations, they are bonded objects that temporarily boost a spell/enchanting/Magic attribute/etc.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-14-19/0941:29>
Otoh, "augmented bonuses" also come from things like magic and drugs, too.

So if you have +4 to an attribute from cyberware, spells and drugs still won't take you beyond that bonus.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-14-19/0942:03>
Power Foci actually only give a dicepool modifier. They don't boost the actual attribute. The fluff description has been bad ever since 4e changed how power foci work. But it's a dicepool modifier and thus does not count for overcasting and doesn't stack with spell foci.

Augmentations are ware so drugs and magic are normally not considered augmentations. I don't recall reading otherwise in SR6. Other boosts do still obey adjusted maximum. So the spell and the ware combine but not past +4. Incidentally this is the problem with Wired vs Synaptic: wired can stack with more than synaptic by raw. Which is rubbish.

Bonus on drain roll and boosted attribute are different things so yes centering stacks with adjusted attributes.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: sn0mm1s on <08-14-19/1026:46>
How does Adrenaline Boost work in this edition?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-15-19/2219:24>
Quick question.

For the Synaptic Booster purchased on this build...is the 3 the rank purchased or the pts spent on the purchase?

From what I am reading on Hobbes' build it looks like the character has 4 ranks in Bone Density, 4 ranks in Muscle Replace, and 3 ranks in Synaptic Booster.  If it is indeed the rank he bought for each augmentation then I am calculating a total cost in Essence of 5.5, leaving .5 Essence left for the character since characters begin with 6 Essence.  Those would make for some amazing enhancements.

Here is the build again for ease of reference:

Metatype   E
Attributes   A
Skills   C
Magic   D
Resources   B

   
S   5 (9)
A   7 (11)
R   5 (8  )
B   3  (+4 to Soak)
I   5
L   2
C   2
W   3
Magic 1
Essence 0.31
Edge 2

                     Karma
Close Combat   6   
Stealth          4   
Perception          5   
Athletics           5   
Engineering   1    5
Con                   1    5
Influence           1    5
Outdoors           1    5
     
Specializations     
Archery               5
Acting               5
Unarmed               5
Visual               5

Other Karma spends
Magic +1               5
Qualities               4
Nuyen               1
   Total:                50


Qualities
Dermal Deposits      12
Mentor Spirit, Thunderbird      10
Impaired Logic  2      -16
Addiction 1 Week      -2

Adept Powers   
Critical Strike   Thunderbird
Critical Strike   1 PP

Augment   
Bone Density   4  alpha
Muscle Replace   4  Used
Synap   3  Used

"50,500 Nuyen remaining.  2 Knowledge skills remain. 

7 DV Unarmed Damage, with 19 Dice.  Should be one-shotting most stuff.  Could pick up 2 more Karma from Negative Qualities if you want.

For a Katana user dump Str and Dermal Deposits, put the attribute points into Body and Charisma.  You lose a point of DV, but you're still scary.
"
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-16-19/0001:05>
Anyone? I'm still trying desperately to understand everything.  LOL
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-16-19/0027:53>
Yes, that'd be there levels of the augmentation.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-16-19/0032:46>
So, if my augmentations cost 5.5 in Essence and I start with 6 Essence and the Magic stat started at 1 I would have a Magic of 0, wouldn't I? I think the core rulebook states for every integer of Essence loss from Augmentations your Magic goes down by 1.  Would this keep this character from being to utilize the passive Physical Adept abilities he has?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-16-19/0100:45>
Right.. so dropping from 6.0 essence to 5.9 costs 1 point of Magic.  5.0 to 4.9 a 2nd point.  4.0 to 3.9 a 3rd point. 3.0 to 2.9 is your 4th point of magic gone. 2.0 to 1.9 is 5 points of magic.  And 1.0 to 0.9 means you have no magic left at all even if you bought up to 6.

That's way too much cyber and bioware for a magician.  If you want that much cyber, just play a mundane to begin with :)
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-16-19/0143:12>
Right.. so dropping from 6.0 essence to 5.9 costs 1 point of Magic.  5.0 to 4.9 a 2nd point.  4.0 to 3.9 a 3rd point. 3.0 to 2.9 is your 4th point of magic gone. 2.0 to 1.9 is 5 points of magic.  And 1.0 to 0.9 means you have no magic left at all even if you bought up to 6.

That's way too much cyber and bioware for a magician.  If you want that much cyber, just play a mundane to begin with :)

Well, the build that Hobbes made is a Physical Adept so does that mean with the Bioware he added in the build taking his Magic Rating to 0 he cannot use any of his Adept abilities at all? All the abilities he purchased are passive.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-16-19/0149:38>
What happens if your Magic attribute hits 0 is another thing that was left unsaid.

In prior editions, you ceased being a magician and forever lost magical ability. This was called "burning out".  If you do reading on Shadowrun lore, you may find references to burning out or the path of the burnout.  That's referencing magicians that take more and more cyber, which costs them more and more their magical ability.  They keep taking more to compensate for dwindling magical capability...

I wouldn't bet against this being the case for 6we as well once this omission is ruled upon. The character that Hobbes posted is exploiting the omission that Adepts lose Power Points as well whenever they lose Magic.  Again, that's how it was, and I wouldn't bet that it will stay omitted for long in 6we either.  Of course, new editions are not previous editions.. so there's the potential that maybe you'll be able to raise a 0 Magic back up to 1 via karma.  If that does prove to be the case: I couldn't guess as to whether you'd still be able to use magic before raising back up to 1, though.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-16-19/0301:41>
In SR5, you only burnt out at 0 Maximum Magic, at 0 Magic you instead temporarily lost access until you raised to 1 again. But yeah, it depends on the edition.

Essence-wise:
Bone Density   4  alpha = 0.3 * 4 * 0.8 = 0.96
Muscle Replace   4  Used = 0.7 * 4 * 1.1 = 3.08 essence
Synap   3  Used = 0.5 * 3 * 1.1 = 1.65 essence
That's indeed 5.69 used, 0.31 left.

(Hey cool, MR went down from 1 to 0.7.)
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-16-19/2024:30>
So, do you all feel like this is not a wise character to play right now because it is taking advantage of holes in the rules that will likely very soon get nerfed? It seems like the Biotech this character is running around with is likely exploiting a loophole in the rules about Essence and power pt loss.

If so, would anyone be so kind as to do a second run at this character at making it legal per how we feel the rules will shape out?

Our campaign began last Tuesday and this is the character I am currently playing in the game.  I want to ensure I am not breaking anything in the rules.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-16-19/2048:02>
Well... you're legal for now... by the letter if not by the spirit.  And who knows how long it'll be before errata is formally published, so you could be playing the character for so long that by then, the GM may just hand-waive it and grandfather your character in.  That's a conversation for you to have with the GM rather than a bunch of anonymous forum creeps :D

But as far as advice goes... It'd certainly be easier/simpler if you don't get any augmentations at all and focus entirely on magic. But if you like the idea of mixing tech and magic, I wouldn't spend more than 1.0 essence on a magic character.  Without spending on a full essence-load's worth of cyber and bio, you can probably re-pick your priority array and get more of something else in exchange for depressing resources.  All in all... it'd be rebuilding the character from scratch.

A problem I forsee with this is nothing is going to compare to a character that combines the best of two directions that weren't ever meant to combine seamlessly.  You've got all the strengths of an adept AND a street sam.  So... now that you've been playing it it's going to be like having to play a level 1 in D&D after having been playing a level 5 or 10.  It's not in any way balanced to combine all that cyberware with no loss of magic, which is why it's a loophole that will likely not remain open.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-16-19/2108:48>
The good thing is we just started so we have only played one session so far and do not play again till next Tuesday.  We did not even have a combat encounter the entire first session.

Would anyone be willing to take what Hobbes has and re-create it to make it what we think is going to be game legal once the devs get out the errata and all? I would be forever in your debt.  This game is not n00b friendly at all.  I am not sure how much karma Hobbes spent on Bioware but it seems like the consensus believe that the Bioware he purchased will be deemed by the devs to be incompatible with the Magic nature of a Physical Adept once these things are ruled on in the near future.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Hobbes on <08-16-19/2121:43>
Well... you're legal for now... by the letter if not by the spirit.

I build characters with the RAW I have, not the RAW I want.    :P
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-16-19/2123:24>
Care to replicate your effort in a way that's not likely to end up being invalidated? :D
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-16-19/2127:01>
Well... you're legal for now... by the letter if not by the spirit.

I build characters with the RAW I have, not the RAW I want.    :P

And you build amazing characters as well.  I am very thankful for this build.  It is awesome.  Do you have any amazing Weapons Specialist builds also?

We are simply looking at trying to tweak the build a bit in case it gets nerfed by the devs so I will also have a versin I can play at that point that is a legal build.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <08-16-19/2142:25>
Well, since the character is already using so little magic, the easiest/simplest thing to do is just swap magic and metatype priority selections.

You'll lose the magic attribute and the adept powers, but you'll gain 3 more attribute points to put towards edge and/or charisma (your agility is already maxed.  You're playing an elf.. right?)
With no magic, you don't need (indeed can't have) the mentor spirit quality, so that's 10 karma to spend elsewhere as well.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Hobbes on <08-16-19/2154:33>
If the Errata team decides to go with 5th edition style burn out rules the character is still legal.  Max Magic never hits 0.

If the Errata team decides that Power Points can go negative, the character loses the one Adept Power.  Never happened in any other edition though.

If the Errata team decides to re-define Max Magic in some way, the character could become a total burn out.

If the Errata team decides to define Burn out as Magic (not Max Magic) as 0, then the character would burn out.  Similar to editions 1 through 4.

If the Errata team decides to define a specific order of operations for character generation, then the character could burn-out or lose the Adept Power in some way.  But the order of Magic --> Install 'ware --> Increase Magic has always been left to the player's benefit. 

The Errata team could come up with something completely novel regarding burn-outs that I have no way of foreseeing.

If the burn out rules from 5th are copy/pasted into 6th, the character is legal and that seems as safe a bet as any, while remaining 6th edition rules legal as well.

Way too hard for me to guess what the rules will be after the Errata and Mission FAQs are completed, unfortunately.  And as you pointed out, it could be a long time before the Errata gets approved and released.  Burn-outs could have their own source book by  then.  Or at least their own path  :)  (again). 

If char gen rules get Errata'd then people will have to re-make characters.  Hopefully the Errata team is sensitive to that.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Hobbes on <08-16-19/2201:19>
Well, since the character is already using so little magic, the easiest/simplest thing to do is just swap magic and metatype priority selections.

You'll lose the magic attribute and the adept powers, but you'll gain 3 more attribute points to put towards edge and/or charisma (your agility is already maxed.  You're playing an elf.. right?)
With no magic, you don't need (indeed can't have) the mentor spirit quality, so that's 10 karma to spend elsewhere as well.

Exactly.  Loose a little Magic, gain a some Attributes (Edge and/or Charisma).  I've said it in other threads, the lack of burn-out rules and the way the Power Points currently work at char gen are really not exploitable to a meaningful degree.  You give up good stuff to get good stuff and it's a fairly reasonable trade off.  All IMO though. 
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on <08-16-19/2209:01>
I wish they had completely redone the essence model this edition. Like donít have mundanes lose essence from ware but let the essence act as a total limit to how much ware they could take. Have magically active types lose essence and their essence also worked as a threshold to how much they could load. So a adept max could load in 3 essence worth of ware which would lower their magic or max magic by 3.

1e/2e sort of had this with BioWare and itís body index where for mundanes BioWare didnít cost essence but for magically active types it did.

Itís the last time the rules helped reinforce the setting for magic and tech not mixing. Similar to the matrix penalties that disappeared for mages in 3e I think though maybe it was 4e.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-16-19/2209:48>
I am playing an Elf, yes.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on <08-16-19/2216:07>
Optimization wise as long as you donít pick human itís probably a solid choice.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-16-19/2237:15>
I just can't help but wonder if the new Cyberpunk game has anything even approaching the rules catastrophe that Shadowrun has.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: FastJack on <08-16-19/2243:05>
I just can't help but wonder if the new Cyberpunk game has anything even approaching the rules catastrophe that Shadowrun has.
If you're wondering about Cyberpunk Red, it's a quick start rules set. The rulebook is 45 pages long.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-17-19/0411:28>
I just can't help but wonder if the new Cyberpunk game has anything even approaching the rules catastrophe that Shadowrun has.
If you're wondering about Cyberpunk Red, it's a quick start rules set. The rulebook is 45 pages long.

Oh, I'm quite aware.  I am curious if it had anywhere near the issues that the SR 6e Beginner Box did and if the core rulebook, once it is released, will be in a similar condition to the SR 6e core rulebook.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Michael Chandra on <08-17-19/0537:34>
SR6 has as main weakness Change Blindness. Basically, things that everyone is used to, nobody noticed missing when they got lost in editing shuffles. I wouldn't call it a catastrophe perse, it's just that some stuff are unclear to new people and definitely need future clarification.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Hobbes on <08-17-19/1032:42>


And you build amazing characters as well.  I am very thankful for this build.  It is awesome.  Do you have any amazing Weapons Specialist builds also?



Flattery works.

Note Weapon Specialist is hard as there are 5 weapon skills.  Firearms, Close Combat, Athletics, Exotic Weapons and Engineering.  There is quite a bit of overlap in those skills.  This particular build went with Dakka-Dakka primary and some Exotic weapons for special occasions.  But there are a bunch of ways for this build to go, depending on what your vision of "Weapon Specialist" is.  This particular character will also handle physical B&E fairly well, and 6 dice of Fast Talk isn't terrible for this edition.

5 Edge will let you start a combat with the Anticipate Edge action so you can literally put a round into every opponent you can see on your first action. 

Exotic Weapon, is a little goofy as you can only start with one Specialization in a skill normally, but the Exotic Weapon Skill specifically mentions it's an exception to having only one Specialization, presumably that applies at char gen but check with your GM.

Dwarf Weapon Specialist (Dwarf chosen randomly, any Metatype will do)

Metatype   D  - 4 points all spent on Edge
Attributes   A  -  24 Points
Skills   C  - 20 Points
Magic   E  -  Mundane
Resources   B  -  275000 Nuyen.

S   1  (5)
A   6  (10)
R   4   (7)
B   5   
I   5   
L   5   
C   3   
W   3   
Edge 5
Magic 0
Essence 0.31

Exotic Weapons       5   
Perception               1   (Purchased for 5 Karma)
Firearms               6   
Athletics               5   
Stealth                  4
Engineering       1  (Purchased for 5 Karma)
Con                       1   (Purchased for 5 Karma)
Electronics       1  (Purchased for 5 Karma)
Close Combat        1  (Purchased for 5 Karma)

Specializations Purchased at 5 Karma Each
Firearms - Automatics   
Athletics - Archery   
Con - Fastalk      
Stealth - Sneak      
Engineering - Lockpicking      
Perception - Visual      
Exotic Weapon Monowhip
Exotic Weapon Grenade Launcher
   
   
Qualities
Need 15 Karma of Negative Qualities or drop some skills/Specializations



Augment          Rating
Bone Density     4  Alpha Grade
Muscle Replace     4  Used Grade
Synap             3  Used Grade


48,500 Nuyen left for whatever.  If you need more take the Bad Debit Quality and pick up some more Negative Qualities and spend Karma for Nuyen. 
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-19-19/2019:50>
Hobbes...you are the awesome sauce!!! That is an amazing build.  I am going to fish it to my players for our game.

Do you have other 6e builds you have done I can behold in admiration anywhere as well?

I am partial to Trolls, Elves, and Humans as my races of choice.

One question about the Elf Adept you made for me.  What is my Initiative on that build? 4d6+13 or 2d6+13? I was thinking he got 2 Initiative dice but I might have read the Bioware wrong.

Do you have any Elf Mystic builds or Human maybe? Any Troll builds? I love your work.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Hobbes on <08-19-19/2235:25>
Synaptic Booster 3 would be +3 Reaction and +3d6 so Intuition plus Reaction plus 3 plus a total of 4d6. 

Shadowrun optimization is "easy".  Attributes are king.  Skills should be maxed out or purchased at 1 with Karma.  6th edition you're also better off picking up specializations with karma.  6th edition makes the Metatype easy any priority works, just pick your favorite. 

I find it best to just dive in and start fiddling with the builds, post them for feedback, see what others suggest. 
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: markelphoenix on <08-20-19/0636:23>
Synaptic Booster 3 would be +3 Reaction and +3d6 so Intuition plus Reaction plus 3 plus a total of 4d6. 

Shadowrun optimization is "easy".  Attributes are king.  Skills should be maxed out or purchased at 1 with Karma.  6th edition you're also better off picking up specializations with karma.  6th edition makes the Metatype easy any priority works, just pick your favorite. 

I find it best to just dive in and start fiddling with the builds, post them for feedback, see what others suggest.

I am saving this for later, because it speaks deeply of a truth in the 6e Priority System. I really want to figure out how an optimized Mage looks. Biggest thing for me is the 'can't buy spells in chargen rule, only the priority of Magic that you choose gives you spells in Chargen'. To me, this is a really harsh mistress.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-20-19/1924:23>
How much Unarmed Damage does this physical adept do again? I think I read 7 DV.  I know my Dermal Deposits start me at Str/2v+ 1P base dmg.

Also, if my Unarmed damage is indeed 7P is my Unarmed Attack Rating 7 for calculating Edge?
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: markelphoenix on <08-21-19/0641:41>
How much Unarmed Damage does this physical adept do again? I think I read 7 DV.  I know my Dermal Deposits start me at Str/2v+ 1P base dmg.

Also, if my Unarmed damage is indeed 7P is my Unarmed Attack Rating 7 for calculating Edge?

If DV == AR for Unarmed, that seems kind of lame.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: DigitalZombie on <08-21-19/0643:59>
I think base AR for unarmed is reaction + strength.
Title: Re: Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!
Post by: Moonrunner on <08-21-19/1451:15>
I think base AR for unarmed is reaction + strength.

Correct.