Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Outsider on <02-16-11/1826:11>
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Wanted to start a thread on all the gear players have pimped out from guns, gear to commlinks and everything in between.
Here are a couple of guns I pimped out.
Colt M23 (I designed this rifle to be an urban "sniper rifle")
-Smartgun system
-Eletronic Firing
-Barrel Reduction ( Taking it from a 16" barrel to a 10" barrel)
-High Powered Chambering
-Telescoping Stock
-Sound Suppressor
-Shock Pad
-Imaging Scope
-Trigger Removal
-Easy Breakdown
AK-97 Carbine ( I designed this one to scare people)
-Smartgun System
-Barrel Reduction ( Taking it from a 14.5" barrel to a 7" barrel)
-Suppression Rounds
-Remove the Folding Stock
-One Point Sling
-Personalized Grip
-Heavy Barrel
Have fun posting your pimped out stuff
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This is similar to the Trigger Talk (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=277.0) thread, but I'll bite...
This is my Closing the Distance weapon
Mannlicher Wildhüter
-Firing Selection Change SA
-Electronic Firing
-Smartgun System, External Top Mount
-Sling
-Underbarrel Weapon
--Franchi SPAS-22
--Electronic Firing
--Gas Vent 3*
--Drum (50)
This is my Auto Sniper
HK PSG Enforcer
-Firing Selection Change BF
-Gas Vent 2*
-Sling
-Smartgun System, External Top Mount
-Shock Pad
(It's sad that sniper rifles do so little damage, oh well)
*Added because I think it's kosher to put GV's on boom sticks and sniper rifles...
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This is similar to the Trigger Talk (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=277.0) thread, but I'll bite...
I know but I just started with guns because they are easier. And honestly I wouldn't know how to pimp out a commlink or a vehicle if life depended on it. Which I'm hoping someone will do.
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Chipping in for drones;
Micro-tapper Bug with chameleon coating, gecko tips & improved sensor array. (non-linear junction detector & some space for whatever else you need / can fit in)
Hard to spot. Small enough to fit into most areas and traverse sheer surfaces. Can find, drag and tap fibre optic cables for you. Six hours of run-time. Alternatively, install an LTA system instead of the chameleon coating - easier to spot, but it can fly and has a runtime of sixty hours. (less if you fly, more while tapping a wire)
Adding a spoof chip & non-standard wireless link should help it avoid being discovered while transmitting, but I'm not sure what else you could do to stop that.
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El Doctor:
Ares Alpha (RC 2, integral smartlink, underbarrel grenade launcher)
-Airburst Link, Gas Vent 3 Accessory (Barrel), Shock Pad, Flashlight Accessory (Under)
-Auto-Adjusting Weight (4 slots), Personal Grip (1 slot), Gekko Grip (1 slot)
Combined RC of 9 on full auto bursts as well as a grenade launcher, what more could you ask for?
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My classics :
Colt Government 2066
* Final : Damage : 5P, AP : -1, Mode : SA, RC : 2, Ammo : 14(c)
* Infos : Silencer Bonus : -6D and additional -1D to locate sound (additional -2 if Subsonic Ammo used), Smartlink (touchlink, impossible to shoot without), +4D to resist disarm
- Smartgun System, internal
- Touch Link
- Silencer, internal
- Underbarrel Weight
- Tracker
- Trigger Removal
- Lanyard
Ruger Super Warhawk (low tech)
* Final : Damage : 6P, AP : -2, Mode : SA, RC : 2, Ammo : 8(b)
- Firing Selection Change small modification
- Underbarrel Weight
- Laser Sight
- Lanyard
- Personalized Grip
- Increased Cylinder
(RC 2 is not interesting if you use only one gun)
Ares Alpha
* Final : Damage : 6P, AP : -1, Mode : SA/BF/FA, RC : 5, Ammo : 52(c)
* Underbarell grenade launcher : Damage : grenade, AP : -, Mode : SS, RC : 3, Ammo : 6(c)
* Infos : Smartlink (touchlink, impossible to shoot without), +2D to resist disarm, allow full bonus (-4D) from Chameleon Suit
- Personalized Grip
- Chameleon Coating
- Foregrip
- Touch Link
- Extended Clip
- Trigger Removal
- Tracker
- Sling
Commlink : Novatech Airware (Cyberwares)
* Final : Response 5, Signal 5
- Response Upgrade (5)
- Signal Upgrade (5)
- Hardening (Rating 6)
- Customized Interface (+1 Init)
- Commlink Optimization (+1D to a programm)
Commlink : Novatech Airware
* Final : Response 5, Signal 5
- Response Upgrade (5)
- Signal Upgrade (5)
- Armor (Rating 6)
- Hardening (Rating 6)
- Touch Link
- Customized Interface
I also like ceramic knife with personalized grip or morrissey élan with personalized grip and plastic rounds.
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Commlink : Novatech Airware (Cyberwares)
* Final : Response 5, Signal 5
- Response Upgrade (5)
- Signal Upgrade (5)
- Hardening (Rating 6)
- Customized Interface (+1 Init)
- Commlink Optimization (+1D to a programm)
Commlink : Novatech Airware
* Final : Response 5, Signal 5
- Response Upgrade (5)
- Signal Upgrade (5)
- Armor (Rating 6)
- Hardening (Rating 6)
- Touch Link
- Customized Interface
Awesome. I'd like to see more of these and maybe someone that has pimped out their warebore or home.
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built this for a Troll character In a PBP and so far it's destroyed everything that steps in his way.
Accessories: External smartgun, Shock pad, fore grip, Quick Draw holster, weapon commlink, weapon personality, spare clips.
Mods: Metahuman Customization, firing selection BF, personalized grip, extended clip standard, sling/lanyard, Melee hardening.
DV:10P RC:4 AP:-5 ranges:100/300/750/1500 ammo cap: 19(c)
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You do realize you are not allowed to quickdraw a Panther right? Pistol sized weapons only, and the Panter is XXL not pistol sized.
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IF you have the right adept power I guess you could quick draw a panther
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Or the right martial arts maneuver ... like iaijutsu.
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Melee Hardening? I would say add a Bayonet.
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Iajutsu aside, the standard consumer can not quickdraw a PantherXXL so I highly doubt there even EXISTS a quickdraw holster for the PantherXXL.
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What I'm wondering is why you would pick a bayonet over melee hardening, apart from trying to save a couple of hundred nuyen.
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Iajutsu aside, the standard consumer can not quickdraw a PantherXXL so I highly doubt there even EXISTS a quickdraw holster for the PantherXXL.
Armourer and/or Artisan?
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Could you quickdraw from a holster, slip on the sling, then fire all as a simple? I'd think "quickdrawing" from slung across your back may be possible tho with Iajitsu.
The Mod I question comes from farther up. A full sized shotgun as an underbarrel weapon seams.... unlikely.
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I'm currently running a double barrel crossbow and double barrel Pred IVs
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How about a flamethrower with an underbarrel flamethrower?
Mind you, for close combat bunker storming mayhem, I like an automatic shotgun with an underbarrel flamethrower.
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The Mod I question comes from farther up. A full sized shotgun as an underbarrel weapon seams.... unlikely.
Full sized, no. But a "Masterkey" system is very popular with entry positions with SWAT and Military Units. (A Masterkey is an under-barrel-mounted shotgun.). They're originally use Sawed-Off Remington 870 Pump Shotguns, but the TV Show "Sons of Guns" made one with a Saiga 12.
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The Mod I question comes from farther up. A full sized shotgun as an underbarrel weapon seams.... unlikely.
Full sized, no. But a "Masterkey" system is very popular with entry positions with SWAT and Military Units. (A Masterkey is an under-barrel-mounted shotgun.). They're originally use Sawed-Off Remington 870 Pump Shotguns, but the TV Show "Sons of Guns" made one with a Saiga 12.
I'll bet it don't fire bursts and have a 50 round drum. :D
But it ain't in my campaign so I'm not tryin to start a hub-bub.
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No, it was semi-auto and fed from what I think was a 5-Shell Magazine, loaded with Breaching Loads. It was a special order for a SWAT team that wanted something for rapid entry so that their breacher didn't need to transition to his sidearm after using the shotgun on the door.
A Short Barrelled Defiance T-250 with Shock-Lock Shells would be perfect for a Masterkey system on a Shadowrun Assault Rifle. AK-97 and T-250 combo would be classic Shadowrun! It's what "Matilda" is, BTW.
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The Mod I question comes from farther up. A full sized shotgun as an underbarrel weapon seams.... unlikely.
Full sized, no. But a "Masterkey" system is very popular with entry positions with SWAT and Military Units. (A Masterkey is an under-barrel-mounted shotgun.). They're originally use Sawed-Off Remington 870 Pump Shotguns, but the TV Show "Sons of Guns" made one with a Saiga 12.
I'll bet it don't fire bursts and have a 50 round drum. :D
But it ain't in my campaign so I'm not tryin to start a hub-bub.
This topic has been argued on several threads now. The issue that's not in a grey area is in the second weapon I listed... It should be a Foregrip instead of a Shockpad, but I haven't gotten around to changing that, so I list it here.
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Also, drum mods are only available for SMGs and Assault Rifles, but you've already made it clear that RAW doesn't matter too much to you, so whatevs.
Here's a combat-purposed SUV, straight out of the presidential motorcade.
Rover 2068 Comes with High Amenities, Passenger Protection 2, Anti-theft System and Off-road suspension.
+ Rigger Cocoon
+ Ram Plate
+ 13 Concealed Armor
+ Engine Customization (Acceleration)
+ Concealed Remote Turret (Restricted Gear/ Avail 20) w/ Ares MP-LMG set for HV fire w/ Underbarrel MGL-12 Grenade launcher (basically the MGL 6.)
++Ammo bin
--Swap out Radar and Camera for R6 versions, and Atmosphere sensor for Barometer.
Final stats: Handling +1 (0 on pavement; +2 in off-road conditions) Accel 24/42 Speed 140 Bod 13 Armor 13 Pilot 2 Device Rating 3 Sensor 6
Rams for 26P damage with no dice penalty for exceeding its walking rate. Rigger cocoon prevents ramming damage directed at driver.
Gun is fully RCd by the vehicle and capable of engaging up to 4 targets per pass in Full-auto fire, or showering grenades if necessary. Can do better in play, natch.
Total cost: 50k + Restricted Gear or 15 BP
__________________________
And now, a death drone.
Ares Air supply Drone Comes with Obsolescence (-1 to device rating), Improved Takeoff and Landing 2 and Special Storage
+ Chameleon Coating
+ 18 Armor
+ Special Armor modification (Nonconductivity 10)
+ External, Remote Control, Fixed, Reinforced Weapon Mount w/ GE Vanquisher Heavy Autocannon (Restricted Gear)
++ Ammo bin
-- Sensors switchced, etc
Final stats: Handling 0 Accel 24/112 Speed 240 Bod 6 Armor 18 Pilot 2 Device Rating 4 Sensor 6
Thanks to Improved Takeoff, this is a full VTOL aircraft capable of hovering around during operations. If you want to keep it covert until needed (radar is a problem) just store it in the back of a semi. Anyway, it's a gunship with a tankbuster cannon on the front of the mother.
You know, lovely 11P -6AP 15 round bursts. Murder on a stick. Engage 5 targets withing 2 meters of each other from 2,400m away. This thing is a beastly bit of cavalry. Use its storage to smuggle goods or to drop ordinance on top of targets. Nothing says lovin like about 100 HE grenades dropped on a hostile target.
Total cost: 50k + Restricted Gear or 15 BP
It will cost more to upgrade it for independent operation, but, really, this terrifying bastard deserves a dedicated rigger.
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The A-10 Warthog just got itself a Drone Variant!
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I want to make a Pimped Ride Motorcycle with an Oil Slick Sprayer (loaded with napalm, or nanomachines) or a minedropper, or a rear mounted flamethrower. Dammit, I want my Lightcycle!
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I want to make a Pimped Ride Motorcycle with an Oil Slick Sprayer (loaded with napalm, or nanomachines) or a minedropper, or a rear mounted flamethrower. Dammit, I want my Lightcycle!
I want Kit from Knight Rider (http://knightrideronline.com/), I'm talking circa 1982 with David Hasselhoff! An AI in a super tricked out car...
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I want a C-N Jackrabbit that scares Lone Star Patrol-1s because I somehow was able to make it literally blow their doors off as I fly by.
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Thundercloud Contrail (Motorcycle, 10 mod slots)
- Enhanced Rigger's Cocoon (2)
- Motorcycle Gyro-stabilisation (1)
- Amphibious Operation L2 (4)
- Life Support L2 (3)
*Run-Flat Tires
*Morphing Plates
*Spoof Chip
Basically, it's a submersible motorcycle. Personal choice on whether to take the stabilisation or nano-maintenance. The latter is probably going to save your ass if there's ever a bullet hole leak.
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You do realize you are not allowed to quickdraw a Panther right? Pistol sized weapons only, and the Panter is XXL not pistol sized.
I realize that. Which is why I discussed my concept for the weapon at length with my GM. (His game, His choices) He said he'd allow it and placed his conditions for it's use.
Melee Hardening? I would say add a Bayonet.
Considering how much that weapon system cost, I'd rather make sure it can't be disabled if it HAS to be used as a striking weapon. While a bayonet might make practical since, in this case I decided against it, because it cost more than I had to spend, also in the end the PC has got spurs, and a sword. both of which can be utilized separately and more effectively than from the panther. I'm not saying you're wrong to choose a bayonet, but at the end of the day my PC would much rather push someone away and shoot them for 10P -5AP than keep them close enough for a blade fight.
Iajutsu aside, the standard consumer can not quickdraw a PantherXXL so I highly doubt there even EXISTS a quickdraw holster for the PantherXXL.
Here is way I describe that quick draw holster. It's a troll size duffel bag, the inner core of the bag is the panther, surrounding the panther are 2 pieces of a rough foam cut out that on the sides molds to the weapon, making it look more or less like a well packed bag, implanted in the foam are RFID tags that read as clothing, food, and some other random junk so if it gets scanned by a tag reader, it'll read normal stuff. (Before it comes up. Yes my PC bought the weapon clean from the black market and made VERY SURE that it had no RFID tags inside the internal parts of the weapon.) The weapon's sling system looks like it's the bag's strap, but is actually fed through the slits in the bag that allow for the bag itself to fall away when it is unzipped. When the gun needs to be brought out, the PC just unzips the bag. once the nylon "bag"(case) falls away, the foam falls away, which leaves the panther completely un-holstered, and ready to make people into salsa. 8) The only thing that requires real modification to the bag is the part where the sling slides into and out of place, otherwise everything used in it's design can be found between a sporting goods retailer (bag), a clothing shop (for the misleading RFID's), and a parcel shipping company (the foam to encase the weapon). No it won't hide the panther from a visual search, conducted by a person, or the proper scanners, it's not meant too. but I wouldn't want to be be the guy who rifles through a bag that looks like it's carrying someone's smelly, dirty laundry... :P otherwise, it does exactly what i need, keeps that big ass gun out of sight, out of mind for all the people walking down X street. Since the PC doesn't carry it into area's where KE and major security operate unless he can smuggle it around. that doesn't matter much to him.
I didn't think my last post was gonna be the cause of such a hot bed of discussion. I hope this all explains it better. :-\
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Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, someone got a Panther Cozy!
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Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, someone got a Panther Cozy!
Lol. It's his first true love, he just wants her to be comfy :P
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Honestly, "I hide my Panther Assault Cannon in a Duffel Bag.", does that trick EVER work?
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Honestly, "I hide my Panther Assault Cannon in a Duffel Bag.", does that trick EVER work?
It does when you stay in security dead zones. besides, it's totally worth all the jokes to imagine the faces of the people who get to see it come out and didn't expect it. XD
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Honestly, "I hide my Panther Assault Cannon in a Duffel Bag.", does that trick EVER work?
Yes. Yes it does. (http://video.yahoo.com/watch/8301565/22135016)
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Yeah, but what about the one time you really need it, and accidentally bring the duffel bag that actually has your clothes and knicknacks?
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Trust me, you can tell the difference in weight and feel.
Also, The Pig had stuffing to pad out the heavy and bulkiness of the 40mm Grenade Launcher with Red Dot Sight.
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I may be just a little bit too much of a Gun Nut.
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Lucy -> Sniper Rifle (9P, -4AP, SA, 14c ammo)
3.350 Barret Model 121
500 Smartgun
2.000 +Response Upgrade 4
10.000 +Pilot Rating 4
4.000 +Targetting 4 Autosoft
4.000 +Clearsight 4 Autosoft
2.000 +Empathy Software 4
3.000 +Improved Sensor Array
2.500 +Fuzzy Logic
3.000 Limping Propulsion System
2.000 Chameleon Coating
3.350 Powered Easy Breakdown
250 Weapon Personality
50 Voice Activation/Response
300 Melee Hardening
200 Silencer
Basicly, it's my char's, 'Lucky Luka' Bilotky. He's madly in love with his gun. She's his sidekick on his missions, asking her to take position and watch over him while hiding somewhere. Makes a great watchdog too, but he'll never say that when she can hear it, she's really got a temper.
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I may be just a little bit too much of a Gun Nut.
No such thing. That's like saying you own too many guns, or comics, or food!!!
Anyone take the time to ever pimp out their pad, loft, or flat, or whatever you want to call it?
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I may be just a little bit too much of a Gun Nut.
No such thing. That's like saying you own too many guns, or comics, or food!!!
Anyone take the time to ever pimp out their pad, loft, or flat, or whatever you want to call it?
Oh hell yeah. I mostly do that for safe houses since you never know how long you'll be sitting tight. Most of the one's I've made, I've already shared in the safehouse topic I made a while ago. :D
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This can be bought as a starting runner, though you'd need Restricted Gear 3 times to get it. (And might want to be "Born Rich" to buy anything else, like the software and electronics to protect the enemy from throwing this against you.)
Put simply?
You've got a near-undetectable flying machine, raining death to any target below. The Dragonfly or the Microcrawler can be used to get inside buildings and then use a laser-designator to allow you to open fire on them... it's not like anything (not even a bunker) can stop the onslaught.
Attack: 26P, -7AP. (Firing Ex-Ex, 15 bullet Narrow burst fire.)
Northrup Wasp 106000Y
+ Rigger Adaptation 2500Y
+ 20 Armor 2000Y
+ Chameleon Coating 10000Y
+ Improved Economy 19500Y
+ Improved Sensor Array 1000Y
+ ECM10 8000Y
+ ECCM2 Software Free
+ Signature Masking R6 12000Y
+External Flexible Weapon Mount Free
++ Reinforced 4000Y
++GE Vanquisher HeavyAutocannon 20000Y
++ 200 Ex-Ex Rounds 2000Y
++ Firing Selection Change 300Y
++ Smartgun(Mod) 400Y
++ Chameleon Coating 1000Y
++ Safe Target System 200Y
++ Tracker 150Y
= 189550Y
Shiawasa Kanmushi 1000Y
+ Gecko Tips Free
+ Chameleon Coating 1000Y
+ Improved Sensor Array 1000Y
+ Amphibious Operation 125Y
= 3125Y
MCT Dragonfly 2500Y
+ VTOL 2 Free
+ Weapon* Free
+ Chameleon Coating 1000Y
+ Gecko Tips 300Y
+ Termination System 1000Y
= 4800Y
TOTAL: 196975Y
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Why would you go for an amphibious Kanmushi, when you could make it lighter than air and still have mod slots?
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Customized right cyberarm on my hacker. It's not near maxed but I like it.
Customized right cyberarm.
Agility +3
Internal Comlink
Internal Hot Sim module
Internal radar system 4
The Commlink is a Singularity Battle Buddy Basic
Firewall and OS 5
Custom interface
Optimized for Exploit
Response Enhancer 3
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^
I keep seeing that Singularity Battle Buddy Basic. What book is it in?
Why would you go for an amphibious Kanmushi, when you could make it lighter than air and still have mod slots?
Because it'll be a lot easier to spot and handle, hanging below a balloon?
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It's in War! (Huh!)
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Why would you go for an amphibious Kanmushi, when you could make it lighter than air and still have mod slots?
Because it'll be a lot easier to spot and handle, hanging below a balloon?
Eh. I always figured it was installed internally. (at least partially)
It's not like there's any suggested consistency in balloon size or modifiers to show the drone is noticeably larger or easier to spot - just slower and harder to handle.
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Why would you go for an amphibious Kanmushi, when you could make it lighter than air and still have mod slots?
Because it'll be a lot easier to spot and handle, hanging below a balloon?
Eh. I always figured it was installed internally. (at least partially)
It's not like there's any suggested consistency in balloon size or modifiers to show the drone is noticeably larger or easier to spot - just slower and harder to handle.
"The vehicle is mounted on a zeppelin or blimp frame, so that it can now loiter over an area for days. The gas bag is filled with non-flammable gas."
While there aren't any rules for perception modifier for the mod, it's going to be hard to defend that it's still micro-drone sized, probably mini or even small-drone sized, giving a much different concealability rating in the table p.311.
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El Doctor:
Ares Alpha (RC 2, integral smartlink, underbarrel grenade launcher)
-Airburst Link, Gas Vent 3 Accessory (Barrel), Shock Pad, Flashlight Accessory (Under)
-Auto-Adjusting Weight (4 slots), Personal Grip (1 slot), Gekko Grip (1 slot)
Combined RC of 9 on full auto bursts as well as a grenade launcher, what more could you ask for?
Something subtle? :P
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El Doctor:
Ares Alpha (RC 2, integral smartlink, underbarrel grenade launcher)
-Airburst Link, Gas Vent 3 Accessory (Barrel), Shock Pad, Flashlight Accessory (Under)
-Auto-Adjusting Weight (4 slots), Personal Grip (1 slot), Gekko Grip (1 slot)
Combined RC of 9 on full auto bursts as well as a grenade launcher, what more could you ask for?
Auto adjusting weight and unberbarrel grenade launcher take the same slot. You can drop the weight for heavy barrel and bet 8. You'll also have another slot to play with, I'd go extended clip.
[/quote]
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El Doctor:
Ares Alpha (RC 2, integral smartlink, underbarrel grenade launcher)
-Airburst Link, Gas Vent 3 Accessory (Barrel), Shock Pad, Flashlight Accessory (Under)
-Auto-Adjusting Weight (4 slots), Personal Grip (1 slot), Gekko Grip (1 slot)
Combined RC of 9 on full auto bursts as well as a grenade launcher, what more could you ask for?
Auto adjusting weight and unberbarrel grenade launcher take the same slot. You can drop the weight for heavy barrel and bet 8. You'll also have another slot to play with, I'd go extended clip.
[/quote]
You seem to be mixing rules systems, there. Modifications don't have location based mounting like you see with accessories, instead taking up a number of slots. "Mounting Locations" don't exist for modifications - which makes perfect sense, when you consider it's something being built into the weapon, no being attached to it on the outside.
At least, that's the best I've been able to gather based on what's actually written in the rules and by asking in the rules forum.
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El Doctor:
Ares Alpha (RC 2, integral smartlink, underbarrel grenade launcher)
-Airburst Link, Gas Vent 3 Accessory (Barrel), Shock Pad, Flashlight Accessory (Under)
-Auto-Adjusting Weight (4 slots), Personal Grip (1 slot), Gekko Grip (1 slot)
Combined RC of 9 on full auto bursts as well as a grenade launcher, what more could you ask for?
Auto adjusting weight and unberbarrel grenade launcher take the same slot. You can drop the weight for heavy barrel and bet 8. You'll also have another slot to play with, I'd go extended clip.
You seem to be mixing rules systems, there. Modifications don't have location based mounting like you see with accessories, instead taking up a number of slots. "Mounting Locations" don't exist for modifications - which makes perfect sense, when you consider it's something being built into the weapon, no being attached to it on the outside.
At least, that's the best I've been able to gather based on what's actually written in the rules and by asking in the rules forum.
[/quote]
Where else would a moving underbarrel weight go but under the barrel? But to quote rules,
Arsenal page 148: Modifications vs. Accessories
"Some of the weapon modifications presented in this list are also available as firearm accessories. The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at
the beginning of this chapter."
Nothing about mods getting to ignore placement requirements.
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El Doctor:
Ares Alpha (RC 2, integral smartlink, underbarrel grenade launcher)
-Airburst Link, Gas Vent 3 Accessory (Barrel), Shock Pad, Flashlight Accessory (Under)
-Auto-Adjusting Weight (4 slots), Personal Grip (1 slot), Gekko Grip (1 slot)
Combined RC of 9 on full auto bursts as well as a grenade launcher, what more could you ask for?
Auto adjusting weight and unberbarrel grenade launcher take the same slot. You can drop the weight for heavy barrel and bet 8. You'll also have another slot to play with, I'd go extended clip.
You seem to be mixing rules systems, there. Modifications don't have location based mounting like you see with accessories, instead taking up a number of slots. "Mounting Locations" don't exist for modifications - which makes perfect sense, when you consider it's something being built into the weapon, no being attached to it on the outside.
At least, that's the best I've been able to gather based on what's actually written in the rules and by asking in the rules forum.
Where else would a moving underbarrel weight go but under the barrel? But to quote rules,
Arsenal page 148: Modifications vs. Accessories
"Some of the weapon modifications presented in this list are also available as firearm accessories. The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at
the beginning of this chapter."
Nothing about mods getting to ignore placement requirements.
Mods don't have placement requirements in the first place, and they don't attach - you build them into the weapon, they are internal. In the case of the weight, the modification would likely involve building some casing out around it to hold it, as would the underbarrel weapon.
Again: modifications do not have a property for placement. That is entirely absent from the modification rules.
Modifications and accessories are separate systems, and their properties are not identical from one to the other - Underbarrel Weight, for example, seems to function differently as a modification versus as an accessory.
You should also take note that the entry on Gas Vent in modifications makes it fairly explicit - discussing how to handle specific barrel mounted accessories in conjunction with the modification, something that would not be a possibility if modifications used mounting slots. It is also worth wondering how you'd know what slot they'd take, seeing as they don't list one and there's no rules saying they use the same mounting location as the accessory version.
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If Mods ignored slotting rules (and potentially physics) then that would be noted, see Arsenal page 150: "Bayonet Mount: The bayonet mount allows the attachment of a bayonet (see p. 32) without using up the barrel mount, as it usually does." If they note it as a deviance from the norm for bayonets, why would deviance be the norm for other mods?
Edit for clarity
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All I have to say is that I have to pimp slap my AK-97 quite often when I pimp her out, because she never comes back with money!
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If Mods ignored slotting rules (and potentially physics) then that would be noted, see Arsenal page 150: "Bayonet Mount: The bayonet mount allows the attachment of a bayonet (see p. 32) without using up the barrel mount, as it usually does." If they note it as a deviance from the norm for bayonets, why would deviance be the norm for other mods?
Edit for clarity
You should really double check the bayonet itself - if you did, you'd see it is an accessory, not a mod, and has "Barrel" as it's Mount entry. And while you're at it, compare the Modification listings to the Accessory listings, you should notice that Accessories have a "Mount" entry, while Modifications do not.
And again, I remind you: Mods are built into the weapon. They involve things such as swapping out parts, and that sort of thing. Mod slots are used for the measurement of how much capacity a weapon has for such modification - by default, it's 6 to everything, but the GM is free to adjust that as he wishes for smaller/larger weapons if he thinks it makes little sense for a holdout and a Panther to have the same capacity. Slots, really, would be a pointless mechanic if Mountings were required.
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If Mods ignored slotting rules (and potentially physics) then that would be noted, see Arsenal page 150: "Bayonet Mount: The bayonet mount allows the attachment of a bayonet (see p. 32) without using up the barrel mount, as it usually does." If they note it as a deviance from the norm for bayonets, why would deviance be the norm for other mods?
Edit for clarity
You should really double check the bayonet itself - if you did, you'd see it is an accessory, not a mod, and has "Barrel" as it's Mount entry. And while you're at it, compare the Modification listings to the Accessory listings, you should notice that Accessories have a "Mount" entry, while Modifications do not.
And again, I remind you: Mods are built into the weapon. They involve things such as swapping out parts, and that sort of thing. Mod slots are used for the measurement of how much capacity a weapon has for such modification - by default, it's 6 to everything, but the GM is free to adjust that as he wishes for smaller/larger weapons if he thinks it makes little sense for a holdout and a Panther to have the same capacity. Slots, really, would be a pointless mechanic if Mountings were required.
You should check out the pages I've listed. Had you done so you would see that I quoted the bayonet mount mod, not the accessory. And while I have listed several quotes supporting my stance, you've provided nothing but assurances that your opinion is correct. Where are you facts coming from? Show me some page numbers.
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If Mods ignored slotting rules (and potentially physics) then that would be noted, see Arsenal page 150: "Bayonet Mount: The bayonet mount allows the attachment of a bayonet (see p. 32) without using up the barrel mount, as it usually does." If they note it as a deviance from the norm for bayonets, why would deviance be the norm for other mods?
Edit for clarity
You should really double check the bayonet itself - if you did, you'd see it is an accessory, not a mod, and has "Barrel" as it's Mount entry. And while you're at it, compare the Modification listings to the Accessory listings, you should notice that Accessories have a "Mount" entry, while Modifications do not.
And again, I remind you: Mods are built into the weapon. They involve things such as swapping out parts, and that sort of thing. Mod slots are used for the measurement of how much capacity a weapon has for such modification - by default, it's 6 to everything, but the GM is free to adjust that as he wishes for smaller/larger weapons if he thinks it makes little sense for a holdout and a Panther to have the same capacity. Slots, really, would be a pointless mechanic if Mountings were required.
You should check out the pages I've listed. Had you done so you would see that I quoted the bayonet mount mod, not the accessory. And while I have listed several quotes supporting my stance, you've provided nothing but assurances that your opinion is correct. Where are you facts coming from? Show me some page numbers.
A: I checked out the bayonet mount mod. It's a mounting slot which may be used for a bayonet, not a bayonet. The bayonet is the accessory that requires the slot.
B: The rules do not contain the things that would be required for you to be right, and would be unlikely to contain a direct reference. But let me lay it out for you:
- If modifications used up mounting slots, the rules would say modifications used mounting slots.
-- The rules do not say that modifications use mounting slots. In some places, they even handle the case of having having barrel mounted accessories with modifications that would be barrel mounted if such a thing were possible
- If mountings were used as the limiter on modifications, the Slots mechanic would likely not exist
-- The Slots mechanic exists.
- If modifications required mountings, their entries would state the mountings that they use.
-- They do not state a mounting that they use.
--- This is a big hole in your argument, by the way, so, I'll ask the direct question: If modifications use mounting slots, what tells me the one a modification uses?
In other words, my case is made largely by the absence of particular things. I would not expect the modification rules to reference rules they don't interact with at all, and accordingly, they do not reference the mounting slot rules.
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True most mods (and some accessories) do not have slot requirements, but some do based on the physics of how they work. An underbarrel weight needs to be under the barrel. Period. Or it's just dead weight. And as there is only one slot there, the above Ares Alpha can't mount one without losing the grenade launcher. To put it under the GL will require removal of the GL thus loss of the "free" mod point it granted. You could try to weld it under the GL but as a machinist I can tell you that it'd be really bad for you when you went to fire it.
As to the rules regarding the difference between accessories and mods it clearly states. "The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at the beginning of this chapter." Difference, singular, meaning one difference, which is then detailed. Nothing is mentioned of slotted accessories ignoring that rule.
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True most mods (and some accessories) do not have slot requirements, but some do based on the physics of how they work. An underbarrel weight needs to be under the barrel. Period. Or it's just dead weight. And as there is only one slot there, the above Ares Alpha can't mount one without losing the grenade launcher. To put it under the GL will require removal of the GL thus loss of the "free" mod point it granted. You could try to weld it under the GL but as a machinist I can tell you that it'd be really bad for you when you went to fire it.
As to the rules regarding the difference between accessories and mods it clearly states. "The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at the beginning of this chapter." Difference, singular, meaning one difference, which is then detailed. Nothing is mentioned of slotted accessories ignoring that rule.
An underbarrel weight needs to be positioned under the barrel, but that's not the same as being on the under barrel mount - if it's on the mount, it is fully external, modular, and separate from the weapon. The modification becomes a part of the weapon. In the case of combining it with the grenade launcher, I'd suggest it likely sits between the rifle barrel and the launcher, with the casing being built in around the whole set..
And you're dodging around an important point: How can you possibly know what mount slots a modification uses if it doesn't say anything about it? What piece of rules text states that the underbarrel weight modification, being distinct from the accessory bearing the same name, takes the underbarrel slot (and I will not grant you anything from the name, as whatever means you employ to make that determination must be generalizable)? Modifications are not accessories, yet you seem to be assuming they are subject to all the same rules unless stated otherwise - they are distinct systems.
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True most mods (and some accessories) do not have slot requirements, but some do based on the physics of how they work. An underbarrel weight needs to be under the barrel. Period. Or it's just dead weight. And as there is only one slot there, the above Ares Alpha can't mount one without losing the grenade launcher. To put it under the GL will require removal of the GL thus loss of the "free" mod point it granted. You could try to weld it under the GL but as a machinist I can tell you that it'd be really bad for you when you went to fire it.
As to the rules regarding the difference between accessories and mods it clearly states. "The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at the beginning of this chapter." Difference, singular, meaning one difference, which is then detailed. Nothing is mentioned of slotted accessories ignoring that rule.
An underbarrel weight needs to be positioned under the barrel, but that's not the same as being on the under barrel mount - if it's on the mount, it is fully external, modular, and separate from the weapon. The modification becomes a part of the weapon. In the case of combining it with the grenade launcher, I'd suggest it likely sits between the rifle barrel and the launcher, with the casing being built in around the whole set..
And you're dodging around an important point: How can you possibly know what mount slots a modification uses if it doesn't say anything about it? What piece of rules text states that the underbarrel weight modification, being distinct from the accessory bearing the same name, takes the underbarrel slot (and I will not grant you anything from the name, as whatever means you employ to make that determination must be generalizable)? Modifications are not accessories, yet you seem to be assuming they are subject to all the same rules unless stated otherwise - they are distinct systems.
Well, if the weight mod will work just as well only halfway up the barrel, why make the accessory "underbarrel only" in the first place.
I have dodged nothing, they are the same thing only mods are more permanently attached, as per Arsenal page 148: "Modifications vs. Accessories
Some of the weapon modifications presented in this list are also available as firearm accessories. The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at
the beginning of this chapter." That's crystal clear to me.
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All I have to say is that I have to pimp slap my AK-97 quite often when I pimp her out, because she never comes back with money!
make sure you don't use your ring hand, don't wanna mess her face up :P
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True most mods (and some accessories) do not have slot requirements, but some do based on the physics of how they work. An underbarrel weight needs to be under the barrel. Period. Or it's just dead weight. And as there is only one slot there, the above Ares Alpha can't mount one without losing the grenade launcher. To put it under the GL will require removal of the GL thus loss of the "free" mod point it granted. You could try to weld it under the GL but as a machinist I can tell you that it'd be really bad for you when you went to fire it.
As to the rules regarding the difference between accessories and mods it clearly states. "The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at the beginning of this chapter." Difference, singular, meaning one difference, which is then detailed. Nothing is mentioned of slotted accessories ignoring that rule.
An underbarrel weight needs to be positioned under the barrel, but that's not the same as being on the under barrel mount - if it's on the mount, it is fully external, modular, and separate from the weapon. The modification becomes a part of the weapon. In the case of combining it with the grenade launcher, I'd suggest it likely sits between the rifle barrel and the launcher, with the casing being built in around the whole set..
And you're dodging around an important point: How can you possibly know what mount slots a modification uses if it doesn't say anything about it? What piece of rules text states that the underbarrel weight modification, being distinct from the accessory bearing the same name, takes the underbarrel slot (and I will not grant you anything from the name, as whatever means you employ to make that determination must be generalizable)? Modifications are not accessories, yet you seem to be assuming they are subject to all the same rules unless stated otherwise - they are distinct systems.
Well, if the weight mod will work just as well only halfway up the barrel, why make the accessory "underbarrel only" in the first place.
I have dodged nothing, they are the same thing only mods are more permanently attached, as per Arsenal page 148: "Modifications vs. Accessories
Some of the weapon modifications presented in this list are also available as firearm accessories. The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at
the beginning of this chapter." That's crystal clear to me.
Please answer the question: How could you ever know what slot a given modification uses, going by rules text alone?
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Look at the accessory version of the mod, as other than time skill and permanence they are the same.
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I don't think it matters what slot a mod uses its just a system to show how many mods a weapon can have. Weapon accessories are really the only time you need to worry about where they go.
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I don't think it matters what slot a mod uses its just a system to show how many mods a weapon can have. Weapon accessories are really the only time you need to worry about where they go.
I disagree due to the "no slots for mods" concept can lead to weapons with multiple "underbarrel" weapons.
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I don't think it matters what slot a mod uses its just a system to show how many mods a weapon can have. Weapon accessories are really the only time you need to worry about where they go.
I disagree due to the "no slots for mods" concept can lead to weapons with multiple "underbarrel" weapons.
Thats where you have to either be somewhat realistic or your gm just says no
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All I have to say is that I have to pimp slap my AK-97 quite often when I pimp her out, because she never comes back with money!
make sure you don't use your ring hand, don't wanna mess her face up :P
Slitch better have my money!
The advantage of mods is that you can customize weapons to your liking. Bad news is, people can get to learn about how you like your weapons and track you through custom orders or modifications done by only a select few gunsmiths...
Also, there's the issue of "Tacti-Cool", the Ricer equivalent of firearms.
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I don't think it matters what slot a mod uses its just a system to show how many mods a weapon can have. Weapon accessories are really the only time you need to worry about where they go.
I disagree due to the "no slots for mods" concept can lead to weapons with multiple "underbarrel" weapons.
Thats where you have to either be somewhat realistic or your gm just says no
Ah, but it you keep it realistic from word go, by keeping things where they need to be to perform as intended, you'll have less hassle.
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OK, this is a scary thought: Ares Alpha with a Masterkey System mounted under the integrated underbelly grenade launcher.
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Look at the accessory version of the mod, as other than time skill and permanence they are the same.
Except there are cases where such a thing does not exist, or that they are not identical - I'll note the Underbarrel weight here - the accessory version applies only to full bursts, whereas the modification version applies to all recoil. And that doesn't actually answer the question, because there's no rules text that says to do so!
As for multiple "underbarrel" weapons: They take 3 slots, so you could only have 2 and have then used up all your slots, which suggests that the whole thing is a pretty extreme piece of work that would alter the entire weapon. And given the lack of relation to anything to do with location in rules, you could easily attach the second UW above the regular barrel, quite probably drastically altering the whole top 25-33 percent of the weapon in the process, and the work does require a full facility... It makes a whole lot more sense when you consider that you're not attaching stuff, but integrating stuff and altering the construction of the weapon to make it happen - hence why you have slots to represent an overall internal capacity to have such modification occur without impacting performance.
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OK, this is a scary thought: Ares Alpha with a Masterkey System mounted under the integrated underbelly grenade launcher.
I see your scary thought and raise you a Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle with Underbarrel Vindicator Minigun!
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I love when rules lawyers have it out!
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All I have to say is that I have to pimp slap my AK-97 quite often when I pimp her out, because she never comes back with money!
make sure you don't use your ring hand, don't wanna mess her face up :P
Nah, nah. It's just an AK. Do whatever you want to it. Even in real life you don't baby 'em or clean 'em or anything. Just spit on it and maybe rack the slide a few times when you're done shooting, then throw it back into the gun closet and call it a day. Meh, it'll be allright. ;)
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Except there are cases where such a thing does not exist, or that they are not identical - I'll note the Underbarrel weight here - the accessory version applies only to full bursts, whereas the modification version applies to all recoil. And that doesn't actually answer the question, because there's no rules text that says to do so! [quote/]
Yes there is, you're choosing to ignore it. If they acted differently such exception would be noted in the Mods vs Accessories section in Arsenal.
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Nah, nah. It's just an AK. Do whatever you want to it. Even in real life you don't baby 'em or clean 'em or anything. Just spit on it and maybe rack the slide a few times when you're done shooting, then throw it back into the gun closet and call it a day. Meh, it'll be allright. ;)
I'd give her a bit more respect than that. That's what you do when you have no time for anything else, and she'll still work.
Actually, I heard a story from some folks back from The Sandbox where they captured one fellow that charged at them spraying bullets everywhere but where they were (Didn't even hit the truck!), and they found the sights on his Kalash knock-off were set at maximum range, which was 300 metres.
"That is the setting so that we can kill that many infidels." He told them through a translator.
The flipside is, Afghanistan is horrendous on equipment of any sort, but SMLEs and AKs are the weapons of choice for the people that live there, as they're reliable even under those harsh conditions.
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Nah, nah. It's just an AK. Do whatever you want to it. Even in real life you don't baby 'em or clean 'em or anything. Just spit on it and maybe rack the slide a few times when you're done shooting, then throw it back into the gun closet and call it a day. Meh, it'll be allright. ;)
I'd give her a bit more respect than that. That's what you do when you have no time for anything else, and she'll still work.
Actually, I heard a story from some folks back from The Sandbox where they captured one fellow that charged at them spraying bullets everywhere but where they were (Didn't even hit the truck!), and they found the sights on his Kalash knock-off were set at maximum range, which was 300 metres.
"That is the setting so that we can kill that many infidels." He told them through a translator.
The flipside is, Afghanistan is horrendous on equipment of any sort, but SMLEs and AKs are the weapons of choice for the people that live there, as they're reliable even under those harsh conditions.
I remember a story about someone finding an AK that had the action rusted shut and they beat it against a tree then shoot it
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Ares Air supply Drone Comes with Obsolescence (-1 to device rating), Improved Takeoff and Landing 2 and Special Storage
+ Chameleon Coating
+ 18 Armor
+ Special Armor modification (Nonconductivity 10)
+ External, Remote Control, Fixed, Reinforced Weapon Mount w/ GE Vanquisher Heavy Autocannon (Restricted Gear)
++ Ammo bin
-- Sensors switchced, etc
Final stats: Handling 0 Accel 24/112 Speed 240 Bod 6 Armor 18 Pilot 2 Device Rating 4 Sensor 6
How'd you get to those Accelleration and Speed ratings?
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Nah, nah. It's just an AK. Do whatever you want to it. Even in real life you don't baby 'em or clean 'em or anything. Just spit on it and maybe rack the slide a few times when you're done shooting, then throw it back into the gun closet and call it a day. Meh, it'll be allright. ;)
I'd give her a bit more respect than that. That's what you do when you have no time for anything else, and she'll still work.
Actually, I heard a story from some folks back from The Sandbox where they captured one fellow that charged at them spraying bullets everywhere but where they were (Didn't even hit the truck!), and they found the sights on his Kalash knock-off were set at maximum range, which was 300 metres.
"That is the setting so that we can kill that many infidels." He told them through a translator.
The flipside is, Afghanistan is horrendous on equipment of any sort, but SMLEs and AKs are the weapons of choice for the people that live there, as they're reliable even under those harsh conditions.
I've got a few buddies in the sandbox myself, and one of them was working pretty long-term at trying to train the Iraqi military (so that the Americans can, y'know, go home). He ran into the same thing. There's a belief that's pretty common over there -- I have no idea how it got started -- that the range slider on the sights is some sort of Star Trek Power Meter (tm) or something. Lots of guys over there just insist on leaving it at "maximum power," which has done an awful lot of their targets a really big favor.
Alas, not all of them, but...yeah. It's an interesting trend.
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How'd you get to those Accelleration and Speed ratings?
I made them up? Well the acceleration at least. The speed is -20% due to armor exceeding body x2. I haven't bought the PDF. I don't know that I will, considering how unbalanced the drones are.. as I exhibited with this air-supply build. Being able to start a regular 400bp game with a drone capable of mounting a main-gun is bonkers. In a pretty awesome way, sure, but still that is some neon pink mohawk stuff. Here is a picture of the GAU-8/A Avenger which the GE Vigilant Heavy Autocannon is based off, just for reference. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GAU-8_meets_VW_Type_1.jpg)
If Mods ignored slotting rules (and potentially physics) then that would be noted, see Arsenal page 150: "Bayonet Mount: The bayonet mount allows the attachment of a bayonet (see p. 32) without using up the barrel mount, as it usually does." If they note it as a deviance from the norm for bayonets, why would deviance be the norm for other mods?
I really don't know how you could read that and get from it that mods usually take up slots instead of the fact that bayonets usually use up slots. The attachment of a bayonet takes up the barrel mount slot. The mod bypasses the need for the slot, as all mods do, allowing you to mount a barrel accessory and still attach a bayonet to your weapon. What did you think the "it" in that sentence refers to? The abstract concept of mods as some sort of never-mentioned subtext? Is that the basis of your argument? That the pronoun, "it," is referring to some greater concept outside the text, instead of just the anticendent article?
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If Mods ignored slotting rules (and potentially physics) then that would be noted, see Arsenal page 150: "Bayonet Mount: The bayonet mount allows the attachment of a bayonet (see p. 32) without using up the barrel mount, as it usually does." If they note it as a deviance from the norm for bayonets, why would deviance be the norm for other mods?
I really don't know how you could read that and get from it that mods usually take up slots instead of the fact that bayonets usually use up slots. The attachment of a bayonet takes up the barrel mount slot. The mod bypasses the need for the slot, as all mods do, allowing you to mount a barrel accessory and still attach a bayonet to your weapon. What did you think the "it" in that sentence refers to? The abstract concept of mods as some sort of never-mentioned subtext? Is that the basis of your argument? That the pronoun, "it," is referring to some greater concept outside the text, instead of just the anticendent article?
If all mod versions of slotted accessories were slot req free, why is it specifically mentioned in that one case? If this slotlessness were the rule for mods it would either be mentioned on all mods where the accessory version needed a slot or none. That it has that notation while gas vent, UB weight, UB wep, etc do not indicates it is a variance from the norm.
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So basically you're ruling that all mods = accessories because of that one item? There's no mention anywhere else that this is the case.
IMO, it only even mentions the "without using up the barrel mount, as it usually does" as a flavor/setting explanation why some people prefer the more difficult to mount mod instead of the clip-on accessory, without automatically meaning that all mods take the same slots as accessories.
Writing "Mods take up the same slots accessories do." in the Weapon Modification rules (which has a whole paragraph named "Modifications vs. Accessories" without any mention of mods taking up accessory mounts) would have done a much better job of that than adding it to the "bayonette mount" entry.
Like others said, mods are internal modifications, they are limited by the amount of room (slots) left inside the weapon to make some internal changes (and this is the only limit mentioned in Arsenal about weapon mods); accessories are external additions, limited in type and amount by the place (mounts) where's they're added externally.
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The bayonet mount is different in that it is not self contained like a gas vent or smartgun system. It still requires a bayonet. I think that is the significant difference, and what requires the clarification.
To look at the difference between an accessory, which is a bolt-on, and a mod, which changes the essential nature of a weapon, take a look at something like an M203 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M203) compared with a weapon system like the F2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_F2000) which can still accept a forward pistol grip beneath its integrated GL1 grenade launcher, underbarrel shotgun, or pneumatic launcher.
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Ah the F2000... at least there's still one thing we know how to do right in this country.
(Of course, we then sell it to dictatorships and totalitarian governments; but that's besides the point.)
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Except there are cases where such a thing does not exist, or that they are not identical - I'll note the Underbarrel weight here - the accessory version applies only to full bursts, whereas the modification version applies to all recoil. And that doesn't actually answer the question, because there's no rules text that says to do so!
Yes there is, you're choosing to ignore it. If they acted differently such exception would be noted in the Mods vs Accessories section in Arsenal.
Not quite. There's nothing that states that the modification rules follow the same rules as accessories - there is something that spells out a difference between mods and accessories of the same name. This is not the only difference - for example, in some cases, the two function quite differently, as with Underbarrel Weight. Nor do the rules tell you to look at an accessory bearing the same name to determine if it requires mod slots. You choose to run it that way, fine - but it's not written that way, and given the application of a different limiter, it is likely not intended that way either. That said, there's a thread about this in the rules forum, started it a while back because someone wasn't sure.
As for the bayonet mount, you're misreading it. The modification does not give you the bayonet, and is not the mod version of an accessory. The modification gives you a mounting slot - and would actually be quite pointless if it required a mounting slot.
Also, without mentioning any variance, the gas vent mod indicates how it interacts with certain barrel-mounted accessories, which it would not if the mod took up the barrel slot and thus made the interaction impossible.
Perhaps it's best to continue the discussion there if you must, rather than continue to derail this thread further.
My contribution:
Ares Alpha w/
-- High Velocity upgrade, 2 slots
-- Gas Vent 2, 1 slot
-- Personalized Grip, 1 slot
-- Additional Clip, 2 slots
Put it all on a gyro stabilizer, kicking you up to a good 11 compensation, and suddenly you're looking at 17DV full bursts without recoil. Load your clips with whatever ammo you like - perhaps lethal and non-lethal, or flechette and APDS, or AV and Ex-Ex... So many options, there. If one type of ammo is plenty for you, swap the extra clip out to converting it to a drum load, since this thing is gonna throw a lot of bullets downrange.
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The bayonet mount is different in that it is not self contained like a gas vent or smartgun system. It still requires a bayonet. I think that is the significant difference, and what requires the clarification.
To look at the difference between an accessory, which is a bolt-on, and a mod, which changes the essential nature of a weapon, take a look at something like an M203 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M203) compared with a weapon system like the F2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_F2000) which can still accept a forward pistol grip beneath its integrated GL1 grenade launcher, underbarrel shotgun, or pneumatic launcher.
That's getting into the real world of gun modification vs a SR rules system, that's like comparing apples to atom bombs.
Didn't know of the other thread, I'll look it over. Apologies to the OP.
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I think threads like this is a damned good reason to have published and fully-explained errata. That could have just been a editing error, after all.
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I could see it going either way due to editing errors.
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Thus my argument for published errata.
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Surprisingly, Inarai is actually right about mods, in general, not taking up mounting points. HOWEVER, he is very wrong on the specific mod he keeps quoting.
1: Underbarrel weapon mod specifically says that it cannot be combined with other underbarrel mods or accessories that reduce recoil.
2: It also specifically says you cannot attach an underbarrel weapon to an underbarrel weapon.
So no, all this talk of underbarrel weights on weapons with underbarrel grenade launchers is outright incorrect, as is Inarai's hilariously illogical claim of multiple underbarrel weapons.
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_________________________
And now, a death drone.
Ares Air supply Drone Comes with Obsolescence (-1 to device rating), Improved Takeoff and Landing 2 and Special Storage
+ Chameleon Coating
+ 18 Armor
+ Special Armor modification (Nonconductivity 10)
+ External, Remote Control, Fixed, Reinforced Weapon Mount w/ GE Vanquisher Heavy Autocannon (Restricted Gear)
++ Ammo bin
-- Sensors switchced, etc
Final stats: Handling 0 Accel 24/112 Speed 240 Bod 6 Armor 18 Pilot 2 Device Rating 4 Sensor 6
Thanks to Improved Takeoff, this is a full VTOL aircraft capable of hovering around during operations. If you want to keep it covert until needed (radar is a problem) just store it in the back of a semi. Anyway, it's a gunship with a tankbuster cannon on the front of the mother.
You know, lovely 11P -6AP 15 round bursts. Murder on a stick. Engage 5 targets withing 2 meters of each other from 2,400m away. This thing is a beastly bit of cavalry. Use its storage to smuggle goods or to drop ordinance on top of targets. Nothing says lovin like about 100 HE grenades dropped on a hostile target.
Total cost: 50k + Restricted Gear or 15 BP
It will cost more to upgrade it for independent operation, but, really, this terrifying bastard deserves a dedicated rigger.
Accel is 30/150 on the drone, speed is 300. I'm not sure if the mods you put on it reduce either of those I haven't read the mod rules in quite some time and even then it was really only skimming.
Btw, I'd recommend This Old Drone and Milspec Tech to those who haven't gotten them yet. TOD brings a lot of old drones into SR4 and MT adds interesting vehicles and other things.
Now I've got to get my hands on a MPUV and Ferrari Appaloosa, and I'm currently playing the mage ::)
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I don't even have a character yet, and I want a MPUV.
I figure it'd be the perfect Barrens vehicle, and maybe one of the best ways to get out of the sprawl and into NAN Territory for a "Hunting Trip"...
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I agree, it is perfect for the Barrens and the NAN. Although, when you say hunting vehicle I imagine some English dudes sitting on it with elephant guns getting mocked by gangers before being taken apart.
Hmm... riding an elephant though the Barrens.
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One of the characters in my fan fiction intimidates the protagonist with a 165-year old Elephant Rifle...
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Accel is 30/150 on the drone, speed is 300. I'm not sure if the mods you put on it reduce either of those I haven't read the mod rules in quite some time and even then it was really only skimming.
Wow, I was really close.
Final acceleration and speed after the -20% from over-armor should put it at 24/120 and 240.
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One of the characters in my fan fiction intimidates the protagonist with a 165-year old Elephant Rifle...
I really do like that character.
I think the MPUV is going to be the vehicle I use when I don't want to chance my Rover '68 getting messed up or dirty.
I do think military vehicles should have more slots like the Contrail or the Shin-Hyung to help simulate all the different configurations you can do with them.
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Btw, I'd recommend This Old Drone and Milspec Tech to those who haven't gotten them yet. TOD brings a lot of old drones into SR4 and MT adds interesting vehicles and other things.
I'm wondering just how much cargo the Liebre and Air Supply drones could be made to carry. Damn 4th edition and it's lack of cargo capacity rules!
If you could slide a partly disassembled Harley motorcycle into one, it'd be PERFECT for my Missions rigger.
-k
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Maybe a Dodge Scoot, or even a Rice Rocket, but a Harley Chopper would be pushing it, perhaps.
And, yes, I agree... I want cargo and passenger rules! And not just the "Suggested Serving Sizes" sidebar in SR4A.
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I think I want a shotgun/axe that breaks down into a cane (http://io9.com/#!5780007/house-vs-zombies-televisions-best-doctor-battles-the-undead). Let's say it's a:
Remington 990
-Easy Breakdown (Manual)
-Bayonet Mount
-Melee Hardening
-Custom Look (2)
-Personalized Grip
-Smartgun (Internal)
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Start with a SPAS-22, and you already got the Smartgun Link, and a much cooler looking shotgun.
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Start with a SPAS-22, and you already got the Smartgun Link, and a much cooler looking shotgun.
Might be a TAD difficult condensing a Spas-22 into a walking stick...
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And a Pump-Action Remington Shotgun is easier?
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And a Pump-Action Remington Shotgun is easier?
Definitely. The mechanical difference between a SS/SA weapon and a BF/FA capable weapon is normally a very bulky requirement.
Shotguns are essentially a tube plus magazine (cylinder I'm guessing for this case) with the simple pump-action feeding between the two.
Spas-22 with the BF/FA capacity adds a lot more mechanical requirements, which would be incredibly difficult to translate into a streamlined cane design, don't you think?
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Doesn't look that much bigger to me. It's gas-operated, which increases complexity, sure, but not by a great deal. And a Semi-Auto Shotgun is about the same size as a Pump-Action. And the SPAS-12, which the -22 is based on, can work as both with no tools.
Gun Shop Clerk: "That's Italian. You can go pump or auto." - The Terminator
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I though of going the SPAS-22 route, but I felt it wasn't simple enough. The next choice came between the Defiance T-250 (as far as I could tell it is a pump) and the Remington. Remington won out because their auto shotguns follow a different moniker than the pump and the 990 follows the trend of their pump action shotguns.
Pump action shotguns are considerably more reliable, and simple than auto shotguns. I can field strip my Remington 870 quicker than a M-4/M-16 and I don't need equipment to fix it like I do with a Benelli or Saiga (though Benelli does make a modular system (http://www.benelliusa.com/supervinci/modules.php) that would fit better with my idea)...
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I'm not sure a GM would let it fly, but it has coolness appeal... Like a skateboarder with a chem-loaded super squirt and a monofilament whip
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Pump action shotguns are considerably more reliable, and simple than auto shotguns. I can field strip my Remington 870 quicker than a M-4/M-16 and I don't need equipment to fix it like I do with a Benelli or Saiga (though Benelli does make a modular system (http://www.benelliusa.com/supervinci/modules.php) that would fit better with my idea)...
In the middle of my crazy work day, I followed the Benelli link, and had to stop dead for a quiet moment of droolage....
That is a sexy, sexy gun!
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The next choice came between the Defiance T-250 (as far as I could tell it is a pump) and the Remington.
It's described in the fluff as an Autoloader. So I'd say Semi-Auto. Stats back this theory up. It does look like a traditional pump, however, and might have the option of going either/or like the SPAS-12.
It's also been around since the 1st Edition, which is why I put it on Matilda.
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In the middle of my crazy work day, I followed the Benelli link, and had to stop dead for a quiet moment of droolage....
That is a sexy, sexy gun!
benelli's finally bringing the turbular magazine into the modern era!
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In the middle of my crazy work day, I followed the Benelli link, and had to stop dead for a quiet moment of droolage....
That is a sexy, sexy gun!
benelli's finally bringing the turbular magazine into the modern era!
Tubular magazine needs more airtime. Those Calico SMG's (http://Machine pistols and [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhTp-QzSvUE) are just soo sweet! Pity they never made it into proper military service or mass production.
Are there any big flaws with them that didn't make the mainstream media?
Edit: This just in. They're back in production (http://calicolightweaponsystems.com/home/index.php?page=22-2).... How intriguing....
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Tubular magazine needs more airtime. Those Calico SMG's (http://Machine pistols and [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhTp-QzSvUE) are just soo sweet! Pity they never made it into proper military service or mass production.
Are there any big flaws with them that didn't make the mainstream media?
Edit: This just in. They're back in production (http://calicolightweaponsystems.com/home/index.php?page=22-2).... How intriguing....
Yeah, the problem was a Firearms Law that limited the amount of rounds that a magazine could hold in the USA to, um, 10, I think. Kind of hard to sell a firearm that has a 50-round magazine as the small one with that kind of restriction. The law just lapsed, so they went back into business.
Oh, and they updated their website since I last looked!
BTW, the magazine limit is 5 for Rifles and 10 for pistols in Canada, IIRC, unless it's been changed on me since I last checked. That meant that Grandpa and Great-Grandpa's old .303 "Hunting Rifles" (SMLE Mk. III/No.1 and No.4 Bolt-Action Rifles issued in WWI/WWII) had to be modified. Luckily, I think some smart fellows made a 5-round magazine for them, and they did have a detachable box magazine design (But not like what you see in modern weapons. They loaded by Chargers or Stripper Clips, same thing, different names.).
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Tubular magazine needs more airtime. Those Calico SMG's (http://Machine pistols and [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhTp-QzSvUE) are just soo sweet! Pity they never made it into proper military service or mass production.
Are there any big flaws with them that didn't make the mainstream media?
Edit: This just in. They're back in production (http://calicolightweaponsystems.com/home/index.php?page=22-2).... How intriguing....
I think that falls into the mantra of:
What people don't understand they fear
What they fear they hate
What they hate they destroy
The old Calico demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqW3JvrHKrk) is still interesting to watch and I'd get one if I could find it cheap and more importantly if my wife liked to fire it!
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It comes in .22. :P Sorry, couldn't help it.
Also found out they're working on kits to add their magazines to the MAC-10 and MAC-11.
100-round magazines of .45 ACP. Looks like the "Twenty-Teens" could could roar like the '40s did!
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Yeah, the problem was a Firearms Law that limited the amount of rounds that a magazine could hold in the USA to, um, 10, I think. Kind of hard to sell a firearm that has a 50-round magazine as the small one with that kind of restriction. The law just lapsed, so they went back into business.
Oh, and they updated their website since I last looked!
BTW, the magazine limit is 5 for Rifles and 10 for pistols in Canada, IIRC, unless it's been changed on me since I last checked. That meant that Grandpa and Great-Grandpa's old .303 "Hunting Rifles" (SMLE Mk. III/No.1 and No.4 Bolt-Action Rifles issued in WWI/WWII) had to be modified. Luckily, I think some smart fellows made a 5-round magazine for them, and they did have a detachable box magazine design (But not like what you see in modern weapons. They loaded by Chargers or Stripper Clips, same thing, different names.).
In the US that was part of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban law started in 1994 that lasted for a decade, but has since expired and not succeeded in being reinstated. High capacity mags are now defined by individual states/cities (http://www.gunfiredeals.com/High_Capacity_Magazine_Restrictions_by_State_s/48.htm).
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I didn't know the full details of the US deal, I just knew it expired, so Calico could have some civilian customers again. Never knew any owners, so can't comment second-hand about them, but they look nice and the idea is grand. Weight is the big issue, I believe. 100-rounds of 9mm can be quite heavy. Especially if you're carrying a few magazines of them.
Of course, I really don't want to know what kind of trouble you're getting yourself into if you need a few "Centuries" worth of ammo.
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Looks like the "Twenty-Teens" could could roar like the '40s did!
You ain't kidding brother.
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Of course, I really don't want to know what kind of trouble you're getting yourself into if you need a few "Centuries" worth of ammo.
The plot to Homefront (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/115/1154611p1.html) happens (gotta love it when the writer of Red Dawn (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087985/) reactualizes his stories)...
Edit:
or guys like this start wandering your neighborhood
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/167991_495536234842_94712919842_6262380_3949653_n.jpg)
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Of course, I really don't want to know what kind of trouble you're getting yourself into if you need a few "Centuries" worth of ammo.
The plot to Homefront (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/115/1154611p1.html) happens (gotta love it when the writer of Red Dawn (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087985/) reactualizes his stories)...
Got that on pre-order. I don't know, something about it speaks to me. 'Course, I'm a video gamer that grew up at the tail end of the Cold War, so...
And every preview I see of the game, I have to really hold myself in and not scream "WOLVERINES!!!"
BTW: They admit that the possibility is about the same as martians invading, but I've read the timeline listed on the website, and it is POSSIBLE this might happen.
Of course, Canada could possibly invade the USA as well. I mean, hell, what would they do, call the UN? "Canada has invaded!" "Canada? Really? Can't be. Look, are you sure?" "Yes, they have crappy equipment and are wearing Maple Leaves!" "OK. Here's what you do... Give them some beer and tell them they're being impolite. They'll apologize and leave. With the beer."
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Got that on pre-order. I don't know, something about it speaks to me. 'Course, I'm a video gamer that grew up at the tail end of the Cold War, so...
And every preview I see of the game, I have to really hold myself in and not scream "WOLVERINES!!!"
BTW: They admit that the possibility is about the same as martians invading, but I've read the timeline listed on the website, and it is POSSIBLE this might happen.
Of course, Canada could possibly invade the USA as well. I mean, hell, what would they do, call the UN? "Canada has invaded!" "Canada? Really? Can't be. Look, are you sure?" "Yes, they have crappy equipment and are wearing Maple Leaves!" "OK. Here's what you do... Give them some beer and tell them they're being impolite. They'll apologize and leave. With the beer."
I'm a shooting junkie IRL and in VG's... I've got Homefront and Brink preordered
The beer for Get-Out-of-Jail-Free Cards in Canada seems to be a trend I've seen in the media since the 70's... Hrmm, What's going on up there?
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We just really like our beer. At a local military museum, I saw Beer Rations from WWI.
One of the civilian tactics for dealing with an invading army is to drink them under the table and having them wake up in a snow bank (Or in the mud, if summer) without their kit. We might have an issue with Eastern Europeans, but that's about it. And, frankly, we have so many of them and their descendants I'm sure we'll figure something out.
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Those Calico SMG's (http://Machine pistols and [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhTp-QzSvUE) are just soo sweet! Pity they never made it into proper military service or mass production.
Are there any big flaws with them that didn't make the mainstream media?
Edit: This just in. They're back in production (http://calicolightweaponsystems.com/home/index.php?page=22-2).... How intriguing....
Well, there is the issue where the sights are attached to the one part of the weapon that will get removed and swapped all the time, and is likely to loosen up slightly due to normal wear and tear. Plus the magazine is so far back that shooting is going to shift the balance of the weapon just because the weight of the rounds being expended.
I much prefer the Bizon (http://world.guns.ru/smg/rus/pp-19-bizon-e.html)/PP-90M1 (http://world.guns.ru/smg/rus/pp-90m1-e.html) takes on the helical magazine.
-k
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Yeah, a Wandering Zero is always a bad thing, however, we're talking about a SMG here, not exactly the more accurate of weapons to begin with. With 50- or 100-rounds, we're pretty much talking a lead hose anyhow.
Their carbine and pistol versions, more of an issue.
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Btw, I'd recommend This Old Drone and Milspec Tech to those who haven't gotten them yet. TOD brings a lot of old drones into SR4 and MT adds interesting vehicles and other things.
I'm wondering just how much cargo the Liebre and Air Supply drones could be made to carry. Damn 4th edition and it's lack of cargo capacity rules!
If you could slide a partly disassembled Harley motorcycle into one, it'd be PERFECT for my Missions rigger.
-k
There's shadowtalk comments on them being used as resupply for merc units, and being used to smuggle gear into a compound to shadowrunners. I'd say it could hold a Harley.
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A body 3 drone ranges from large dog to small motorcycle. A body 4 large drone goes from a motorcycle to a small car. A bogy 6 large drone is anyone's guess. My guess is that, at that rate of growth, it's got to be the size of a delivery truck.
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Last night I had an idea.
Take a Renraku Stormcloud and install a sniper rifle on it then load it up with a bunch of high end cameras and autosofts. Basically a hovering death blimp.
Or, if you're really evil, put a rocket launcher on it. ;D
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Last night I had an idea.
Take a Renraku Stormcloud and install a sniper rifle on it then load it up with a bunch of high end cameras and autosofts. Basically a hovering death blimp.
Or, if you're really evil, put a rocket launcher on it. ;D
Here's my baby.
GTS Tower + Smoke Projector + Armor (12) + Radar (6) + Radio Signal Scanner (6) + Camrea (6) + Thermal Imaging + Lowlight + Vision Magnification - 30,350¥
Autosofts: Targeting (3) [desert strike] + Defense (3) + Covert Ops (3) + Chaser (3) + Electronic Warfare (3) - 3,000¥
Std. Upgrades: Multilaunch Drone Rack [with 8 Ares Heimdal Drone missiles 4 AV 2 Frag 2 HE], Weapon Mount (external, flexible, remote control) [with Ares Dessert Strike], Lighter Than Air, Retrans Unit (Signal Rating 6)
18500¥ for the drone missiles
Ares Desert Strike + Extended Magazine+ Silencer + Electronic Firing - 4,250¥
alternately
Ruhrmetall SF20 + underbarrel auto-adjusting weight + ammo bin - 6,800¥
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I'll have to see if he still has it, but one of the people that was in my group (Stupid working schedule!), had an idea for the "Newest In Mass Transit For The High Risk Crowd".
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Catapults?
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Blimp bus of some sort. He had a lot of ideas for it and a bunch of other things. The guy is scary smart and imaginative.
And gets worse around me, as I can actually keep up with his shifting thoughts and bounce ideas off of.
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Blimp bus doesn't sound too bad, was it on fire or filled with helium?
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Blimp bus doesn't sound too bad, was it on fire or filled with helium?
Not sure. I think he was still working on that, and trying to figure out how to get a Free Spirit to protect it against weather issues...
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Ask it nicely? Don't underestimate the power of please.
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Here's my baby [......awesomeness I deleted to save space]
I like that thing. Must. Build. Death blimp.
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Lorane:
Yamaha Pulsar
Chamelion Coating
Smart gun
Personalized Grip
Gecko Grip
skin Link
-4 to conceal +2 for smartgun 1 RC 6s(e) 4 mag SA
Lucy
AA-16
Sound suppressor
ForeGrip (underbarrel)
Sling
External Smartgun
Personalized grip
skin link and improved Range finder
32(d) 7p -1 AP RC 5
add drum of stick and shock
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Hoi Fellas!
You're looking for pimped Gear? I'm sure, somewhere in here, I've got some toys, you'd like
What about Guns?
Well, look at this little Beauty:
Ruger Enforcer: (modified Ruger Thunderbolt)
Damage: 5P AP: -1 Mode: SA/BF Ammo:15 (clip) RC: 4
Electronic Firing mechanism (2)
extended Clip ( 1)
improved Firing mechanism* ( 1)
Smartlink(internal) -
melee Hardening (1)
Skinlink (1)
*small modification
Cost: 3.300 Nuyen
or maybe something with more...punch for those Big Guys out there?
Colt Bison (modified Ruger Super Warhawk)
Damage: 8P AP: -3 Mode: HM Ammo: 8(cy) RC: -
extended Cylinder (1)
modified Firing Mechanism (1)
Melee Hardening (1)
High Power Chambering (2)
Metahuman Adjustment (Troll) (1)
Cost: 1.450 Nuyen
Ok, no Guns! what about a Ride?
Thundercloud Xtrail (guess what? a modified Contrail!)
Handling : +2
Acceleration: 20/40
Speed : 180
Pilot : 3
Body : 6
Armor : 10
Sensor : 1
Nano Maintenance System 4
Offroad Suspension
Customized Engine
Motorcycle Gyrostabilisation
Concealed Armor
Smart Tires
Spoof Chip
Shifting License Plate
Cost: 57.700 Nuyen
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Nice thread xD Some crazy optimization going on.
El Doctor:
Ares Alpha (RC 2, integral smartlink, underbarrel grenade launcher)
-Airburst Link, Gas Vent 3 Accessory (Barrel), Shock Pad, Flashlight Accessory (Under)
-Auto-Adjusting Weight (4 slots), Personal Grip (1 slot), Gekko Grip (1 slot)
Combined RC of 9 on full auto bursts as well as a grenade launcher, what more could you ask for?
Shock pads don't work on Automatics though. still 8RC is nice ;D
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Suzuki Mirage Handling +2 Acceleration 60/90 Speed 240 Pilot 1 Body 6 Armor 4 Sensor 1 6,500
Turbo Charger 4 4 slots 10,800
Engine Customization Speed 2 slots 7,200
24,500
Thundercloud Contrail Handling +1 Acceleration 60/80 Speed 216 Pilot 1 Armor 10 Sensor 1 5,000
Turbo Charger 4 4 slots 9,600
Engine Customization speed 2 slots 6,480
Consealed Armor 2 slots 10,000
Anti-theft 2 slots 1,200
32,280
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Ares Predator I: 350¥
...
Done. Hey, it's a classic! ;D
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Ares Predator I: 350¥
...
Done. Hey, it's a classic! ;D
Nice. Those things really were meant to last. ;)