Shadowrun

Shadowrun Missions Living Campaign => Living Campaign Discussion => Topic started by: Fedifensor on (11:30:02/05-01-19)

Title: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Fedifensor on (11:30:02/05-01-19)
Given the announcement of 6E (https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=29135.0), it's time to ask the obvious question.  Will Neo-Tokyo stay 5E until it concludes in 2021, or will there be a conversion to 6E?
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on (11:35:34/05-01-19)
Given the announcement of 6E (https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=29135.0), it's time to ask the obvious question.  Will Neo-Tokyo stay 5E until it concludes in 2021, or will there be a conversion to 6E?

I would imagine season 11 and on will be 6E, since that'll be the current edition by that point.

The FAQ still covers converting 4E SRM characters to 5E, so I can't imagine there won't be something similar to update 5E Neo-Tokyo runners.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Banshee on (11:36:14/05-01-19)
the current season (10) that debuts at Origins will stay 5E, but we are still discussing what future seasons will end up being
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Lormyr on (15:55:35/05-01-19)
I suspect there will be a character and edition conversion at some point before 2020 Origins.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Banshee on (16:00:16/05-01-19)
I suspect there will be a character and edition conversion at some point before 2020 Origins.

yes, but what exactly is what we are working on
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Lormyr on (16:25:18/05-01-19)
Makes sense, there's a lot of moving parts to look at. We appreciate the insight!
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: kyoto kid on (02:21:15/05-11-19)
...what will happen to characters who have qualities, skills, augmentations, powers, etc from later expansions that may not be available for months or years again?
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Lehane on (23:00:53/05-14-19)
...what will happen to characters who have qualities, skills, augmentations, powers, etc from later expansions that may not be available for months or years again?

I am wondering about this myself. I ran six missions last Gencon and banked the karma for an Ally Spirit. I would finish it this Gencon but I would like to know if it would be undone by a conversion to 6th before events registration for Gencon this Sunday. Kinda Important.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Kiirnodel on (04:29:55/05-15-19)
There is no way that the upcoming missions this GenCon are going to be converted to 6th edition. The rules aren't going to be fully available until THAT weekend.

I would guess, that the soonest we are looking at would be for season 11 to be 6th edition.

For the record, my vote is against trying to convert mid-locale. Just like with the move from 4th to 5th, the conversion should be a full reset...
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: mbisber on (05:12:17/05-15-19)
For the record, my vote is against trying to convert mid-locale. Just like with the move from 4th to 5th, the conversion should be a full reset...
Those of us with complicated characters are not going to want to retrofit their particulars.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: kyoto kid on (23:24:49/05-17-19)
I would guess, that the soonest we are looking at would be for season 11 to be 6th edition.

For the record, my vote is against trying to convert mid-locale. Just like with the move from 4th to 5th, the conversion should be a full reset...

For the record, my vote is against trying to convert mid-locale. Just like with the move from 4th to 5th, the conversion should be a full reset...
Those of us with complicated characters are not going to want to retrofit their particulars.
...+1
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Sigfred on (01:50:58/05-28-19)
I figure I would throw in my two cents.

If we are looking forward:
Player and concepts that haven been created for NeoTokyo and run for two GenCon's/Origins will get that axe due to the complete loss of source material in the switch. This can be disheartening for players who are building a character concept and views of particular NPCs and situations that can no longer be made thus making players feel it negates what they have accomplished.

Looking backwards:
As someone who jumped into missions play the second to last and last season of Chicago I was able to find tables out in the wilds to play the earlier season stuff. This was exciting because as I ran out of the "new" stuff as a new player to missions I was able to play older modules without issues.

I bring up the second point because if a conversion is pushed at the cons for the last two seasons of NeoTokyo once done you have then shut potential new players (and older players) who have not be able to experience the older mods with their new "upgraded" 6e characters.

This is part of the problem Paizo is facing and I have seen in tables I play of pathfinder. People have slowed to even stopped showing up to current events as come this Aug all of the characters they have been playing for years are no longer valid for play. The sentiment of "Why should I play when in X months it won't matter" is such a common statement I hear.

People in the shadowrun community at least are used to a 4 year reset. Every 4 years you build a new character and new concept to fit a setting. By waiting for the end it would allow for you to A. give a nice close to the chapter and B. Allow for the new setting to begin in the era you guys are shooting for.

tl;dr My vote would also be that the official launch for 6e in missions be when the new setting hits just so players don't feel like they wasted time playing characters that won't matter soon.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: kyoto kid on (03:12:25/05-28-19)
I figure I would throw in my two cents.

If we are looking forward:
Player and concepts that haven been created for NeoTokyo and run for two GenCon's/Origins will get that axe due to the complete loss of source material in the switch. This can be disheartening for players who are building a character concept and views of particular NPCs and situations that can no longer be made thus making players feel it negates what they have accomplished.

Looking backwards:
As someone who jumped into missions play the second to last and last season of Chicago I was able to find tables out in the wilds to play the earlier season stuff. This was exciting because as I ran out of the "new" stuff as a new player to missions I was able to play older modules without issues.

I bring up the second point because if a conversion is pushed at the cons for the last two seasons of NeoTokyo once done you have then shut potential new players (and older players) who have not be able to experience the older mods with their new "upgraded" 6e characters.

This is part of the problem Paizo is facing and I have seen in tables I play of pathfinder. People have slowed to even stopped showing up to current events as come this Aug all of the characters they have been playing for years are no longer valid for play. The sentiment of "Why should I play when in X months it won't matter" is such a common statement I hear.

People in the shadowrun community at least are used to a 4 year reset. Every 4 years you build a new character and new concept to fit a setting. By waiting for the end it would allow for you to A. give a nice close to the chapter and B. Allow for the new setting to begin in the era you guys are shooting for.

tl;dr My vote would also be that the official launch for 6e in missions be when the new setting hits just so players don't feel like they wasted time playing characters that won't matter soon.
...+1.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Hobbes on (09:53:48/05-28-19)
Dual stating something as small as a typical Mission shouldn't be much time, but there are several.  Dual stating future missions and retro fitting ..... 12 SRMs and ?16? CMPs could be done to let Sixth Edition characters play the earlier NT Missions.

It would complicate setting up Missions at Cons and such as you'd have to specify which edition which could lead to some player confusion, but I think it's better to have the option to pick an edition to finish up the NT campaign.  Folks can either play it out with 5th edition rules, or start new characters in 6th and play through the entire arc.

Heck, you could let Players transfer Mission Rewards to alternate edition characters.  Player shows up with a 5th edition character for a 6th edition game, oops.  Here have a pre-gen, play the game, go ahead and have the rewards for your 5th edition character and toss the pre-gen. 
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on (15:03:10/05-28-19)
Dual stating something as small as a typical Mission shouldn't be much time, but there are several.  Dual stating future missions and retro fitting ..... 12 SRMs and ?16? CMPs could be done to let Sixth Edition characters play the earlier NT Missions.

It would complicate setting up Missions at Cons and such as you'd have to specify which edition which could lead to some player confusion, but I think it's better to have the option to pick an edition to finish up the NT campaign.  Folks can either play it out with 5th edition rules, or start new characters in 6th and play through the entire arc.

Heck, you could let Players transfer Mission Rewards to alternate edition characters.  Player shows up with a 5th edition character for a 6th edition game, oops.  Here have a pre-gen, play the game, go ahead and have the rewards for your 5th edition character and toss the pre-gen.

Thatís the ideal. And realistically itís maybe an hour tops per mission to dual stat things. As an aside drop the art or whatever is slowing it down to get these to the public. Iíd happily run neo Tokyo for my group but who knows of it will ever be available. And this game needs it. I canít hand craft an adventure every week anymore. I suspect most the fans are in the age/life point where they canít either.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Hobbes on (15:37:48/05-28-19)

Thatís the ideal. And realistically itís maybe an hour tops per mission to dual stat things.

Hour may be a bit optimistic.  It's not just the NPC stat blocks, but every skill check, the legwork and rewards sections would probably need a separate section for each edition, likely every Matrix thing will need a total (or near total) re-write.  And there will be things in 5th edition, that simply didn't make it into 6th edition and those will need to be punted on each time.  It's not individually difficult but catching each little change would require a couple reads for most of us.

I converted DNA/DOA to 5th edition, almost on the fly.  Just a splash of prep time and I was good to go, but there were definitely some parts that just didn't work and were just made up on the spot.  Not ideal for Missions play  : )
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on (15:48:40/05-28-19)

Thatís the ideal. And realistically itís maybe an hour tops per mission to dual stat things.

Hour may be a bit optimistic...

Probably a wee bit, yes :)
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: kyoto kid on (02:18:40/05-29-19)
Dual stating something as small as a typical Mission shouldn't be much time, but there are several.  Dual stating future missions and retro fitting ..... 12 SRMs and ?16? CMPs could be done to let Sixth Edition characters play the earlier NT Missions.

It would complicate setting up Missions at Cons and such as you'd have to specify which edition which could lead to some player confusion, but I think it's better to have the option to pick an edition to finish up the NT campaign. Folks can either play it out with 5th edition rules, or start new characters in 6th and play through the entire arc.


[Emphasis mine]
...sounds more sensible than to split it midstream
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on (09:34:30/05-29-19)

Thatís the ideal. And realistically itís maybe an hour tops per mission to dual stat things.

Hour may be a bit optimistic.  It's not just the NPC stat blocks, but every skill check, the legwork and rewards sections would probably need a separate section for each edition, likely every Matrix thing will need a total (or near total) re-write.  And there will be things in 5th edition, that simply didn't make it into 6th edition and those will need to be punted on each time.  It's not individually difficult but catching each little change would require a couple reads for most of us.

I converted DNA/DOA to 5th edition, almost on the fly.  Just a splash of prep time and I was good to go, but there were definitely some parts that just didn't work and were just made up on the spot.  Not ideal for Missions play  : )

I think the first couple you do might take more than a hour but once you know what you are doing the actual stats part would be minutes and then a small set of time to read through and replace things that just donít exist in 6e yet. Iíve done this for previous editions stuff with even bigger gaps of editions. The hard part is the initial determining of what do I want a firearms 6 professional rating 4 to equal in a new system which now uses stat+skill. This is a smaller leap so the stat part is easier.  Edge might be a pickle some cyber etc that doesnít exist yet might have to be worked around. But the stats once you know your ground rules you should be able to zip through. And then the slow down is reading through the adventure to make sure it makes sense for 6e. But missions arenít that long I read through them in 10minutes or so.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: kyoto kid on (04:54:24/06-01-19)
...I basically dropped out of Neo Tokyo missions because of the switch midstream.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Kiirnodel on (05:53:11/06-01-19)
...I basically dropped out of Neo Tokyo missions because of the switch midstream.

Did I miss something? 6th isn't even released yet, and the definitive plan for Neo-Tokyo Missions hasn't been announced yet as far as I'm aware.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: kyoto kid on (22:40:52/06-01-19)
...from what I have been reading and still hearing, Season 11 is where the changeover between 5E and 6E is to be made.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Horsemen on (22:38:01/07-09-19)
Nothing has been set in stone yet that I am aware of.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Marcus on (22:47:04/07-09-19)
I don't think it's a reach to assume it will happen. The time table is probably not soon, I imagine they won't want to make any major changes until at-least the primary splats are released. Further given that NT was already a hard reset. I strong suspect some sort of conversation will have to be developed.  That conversation will probably have to be fairly weird, as characters will go from a very long list of options to much shorter list of options, but that happened in 4th as I recall.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: steelybran on (16:41:29/07-17-19)
I believe I heard somewhere that the first season of missions will be dual-statted. (I believe in the 6th edition release discussion from the Arcology Podcast)

Also, there are conversion rules (at least there were for when they updated from 4th to 5th edition).  It depends on how heavily your character has been built/uses the supplements on how much of an impact this actually has.  I believe my Weapon Spec only has one piece of cyberware from a supplement, and a couple of guns.  Very easy to convert over.  My wife's Spec Ops is almost entirely from the Core book.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Panthros on (16:09:16/07-21-19)
Please use the 6th edition going forward.  Rip the band off.  Allow people to convert their characters or new characters only is fine too.  I have no desire to go back to 5th while 6th is out.  Considering I will be playing Shadowrun for 4 days at GenCon, I know there will be a learning curve buy why not promote the new rules by demonstrating they work in existing missions. 
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Michael Chandra on (16:17:02/07-21-19)
As stated, Season 10 is being offered in 5e, so GenCon won't offer 6e SRM yet. It wouldn't be possible yet either, since the rules are premiering at GenCon. As for the next season, there's no official decision yet but I think there's only a few options they're considering, and none of those will be 'keep it 5e at cons'.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Marcus on (13:49:21/07-23-19)
none of those will be 'keep it 5e at cons'.

In short SRM is going to 6e. Buckle up.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on (14:01:14/07-23-19)
none of those will be 'keep it 5e at cons'.

In short SRM is going to 6e. Buckle up.
  and here I just want to be able to complete chicago for my group. Sadly most of season 8 still isnít up for sale. No idea how to get the rest of it or any of season 9.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: prophet42 on (11:36:06/07-25-19)

and here I just want to be able to complete Chicago for my group. Sadly most of season 8 still isnít up for sale. No idea how to get the rest of it or any of season 9.

Have you considered becoming an Agent?

I know that's how my local GM got access to the rest of Season 8 & all of Season 9.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on (11:43:53/07-25-19)

and here I just want to be able to complete Chicago for my group. Sadly most of season 8 still isnít up for sale. No idea how to get the rest of it or any of season 9.

Have you considered becoming an Agent?

I know that's how my local GM got access to the rest of Season 8 & all of Season 9.

I just run a game for friends on sundays. If thats enough to be an agent Iíd do it. But it doesnít sound like a agent to me. Though I havenít really looked into it.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Banshee on (12:42:05/07-25-19)

and here I just want to be able to complete Chicago for my group. Sadly most of season 8 still isnít up for sale. No idea how to get the rest of it or any of season 9.

Have you considered becoming an Agent?

I know that's how my local GM got access to the rest of Season 8 & all of Season 9.

I just run a game for friends on sundays. If thats enough to be an agent Iíd do it. But it doesnít sound like a agent to me. Though I havenít really looked into it.

the only requirement to stay an active agent these days is to run and report at least one public event per year ... if you don't mind the emails always asking for convention support and what not the benefits far out weigh the requirements
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: kyoto kid on (22:12:24/07-29-19)
...I thought it was commiting to GMing a minimum of four missions per year in a local sponsored Missions group.  Going to cons can get expensive if travel and accommodations are involved.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Michael Chandra on (23:47:43/07-29-19)
Right now, as Banshee said, it's 1 Open Event, not 4 Missions. I run custom Open Events because my timeslots used to make running Missions tough. Usually they're based on missions, sometimes they're completely custom.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Banshee on (08:12:20/07-30-19)
...I thought it was commiting to GMing a minimum of four missions per year in a local sponsored Missions group.  Going to cons can get expensive if travel and accommodations are involved.

it got reduced, and "Open Public Event" does not have to be cons, open event is defined as any SR event that is open to the general public to play and not restricted to private clubs/places. So it can be a homebrew game ran at the local library or a Mission game ran at a con or anything inbetween.

the convention support really varies depending on the convention, the big cons (Origins and Gencon) can easily get your accommodations covered but not travel, some small cons cover hotel
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Michael Chandra on (08:19:17/07-30-19)
The only thing is that as agent you get the occasional mail which includes 'hey we still need people for gencon all!' and then as European I'm all 'okay good luck there!'.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: mbisber on (02:14:06/07-31-19)
Will there be copies of a "Shadowrun 6 Character Creation Worksheet" (one page, both sides) available at the Missions Command Table at GenCon?

It would be very friendly if these could be handed out free to all of the players, in addition to those participating in one of the 2 hour intro sessions.
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: steelybran on (12:59:40/08-13-19)
I believe I heard somewhere that the first season of missions will be dual-statted. (I believe in the 6th edition release discussion from the Arcology Podcast)

Also, there are conversion rules (at least there were for when they updated from 4th to 5th edition).  It depends on how heavily your character has been built/uses the supplements on how much of an impact this actually has.  I believe my Weapon Spec only has one piece of cyberware from a supplement, and a couple of guns.  Very easy to convert over.  My wife's Spec Ops is almost entirely from the Core book.

I heard the same thing on the podcast.

I also think it depends a lot (converting characters) on how much they used from the splat books.  My current character, a Weapons Expert with a penchant for sniper rifles, is almost entirely out of the core book (just Move-By-Wire from CF, I believe, and a few armor augments from other books).  Nothing major.

I'm also sitting on about 50+ unspent karma and over 220k in cash, and a bit unwilling to level them up.  The more I want stuff from splat books, the bigger pain it will be to convert them.

So either they let Neo-Tokyo just be 5E, or they say something to the effect of, "Take your accumulated karma, cash, street cred, notoriety, and public awareness... and rebuild the character.  Keep the theme, but otherwise do what you will."
Title: Re: Neo-Tokyo - will it convert to 6E?
Post by: Shinobi Killfist on (22:33:10/08-17-19)

and here I just want to be able to complete Chicago for my group. Sadly most of season 8 still isnít up for sale. No idea how to get the rest of it or any of season 9.

Have you considered becoming an Agent?

I know that's how my local GM got access to the rest of Season 8 & all of Season 9.

I just run a game for friends on sundays. If thats enough to be an agent Iíd do it. But it doesnít sound like a agent to me. Though I havenít really looked into it.

the only requirement to stay an active agent these days is to run and report at least one public event per year ... if you don't mind the emails always asking for convention support and what not the benefits far out weigh the requirements

While this seemed like a decent idea, the signing up process I can't get past. Wants me to link a bunch of documents I wrote, I don't write out my adventures or put them in documents. they are outlines at best. a pity I really would like to finish season 8 with this group, the story seems to be coming together at the end pretty well.