Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Billy_Club on <01-12-11/0449:18>
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I've seen folks talk about using drone weapons and sensor+perception tests from the drone to increase the shooter's DP. That is, if I have a sniper rifle with the drone mod, people are saying it can make a test on its own to increase my shooting DP. Where in the rules is that coming from? Unwired? Arsenal? Main rulebook?
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I'd also point out that Clearsight is a drone AutoSoft, not something that a runner can use to boost his own skills.
Using Clearsight in a drone-modified rifle, the RIFLE is in autonomous mode doing the aiming, not you. Your personal skills and attributes do not add to the test. The rifle in autonomous mode can do a Sensor+Clearsight Active Targeting test to increase it's tests to hit that target, but that won't help YOUR tests.
Now, if you have a drone-modified rifle, you CAN do a Sensor+Perception roll to get the same boost to your subsequent firearm tests, but Clearsight is not added in.
In short, Clearsight = Drone Use Only, and only when the drone is in autonomous mode.
-k
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I have a similar question in that what does having a machine sprite with a targetting autosoft 'CF' on your smartlinked gun do to your pool? One gm i had said it would make your pool Agi+Skill+Targetting Rating(+Specialty)
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I've seen folks talk about using drone weapons and sensor+perception tests from the drone to increase the shooter's DP. That is, if I have a sniper rifle with the drone mod, people are saying it can make a test on its own to increase my shooting DP. Where in the rules is that coming from? Unwired? Arsenal? Main rulebook?
Main SR4A book, Active Targeting, page 171.
Spend a Simple Action to make a Sensor Test (Sensor + Perception). Every hit adds a die to the rigger's dice pool to subsequent attempts hit that target for as long as he can maintain line of sight/target lock. A drone operating by itself can do this too, rolling Sensor + Clearsight.
I have a similar question in that what does having a machine sprite with a targetting autosoft 'CF' on your smartlinked gun do to your pool? One gm i had said it would make your pool Agi+Skill+Targetting Rating(+Specialty)
I'm not that versed on Technomancers, but a Targeting Autosoft is only good for a Pilot Program. It can't help a rigger in either VR or AR controlled drone combat.
A drone by itself rolls Pilot + Targeting for ranged combat.
A rigger in AR mode rolls Command + Gunnery for ranged combat.
A rigger in VR mode rolls Sensor + Gunnery for ranged combat.
As I stated in the quote in the first message of the thread, Autosofts ONLY assist Pilot programs in Autonomous Mode. They are useless in VR or AR mode.
-k
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So this targeting bonus only applies to Gunnery checks? That's the only skill I see referenced under the active targeting rules.
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Pretty much. Since Gunnery is the only way for a rigger to fire weapons mounted on vehicles and drones.
-k
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So how would you ever be able to use this test with a drone modified firearm? Say I take a shotgun (rifle, pistol, whatever) and drone modify it. Am I taking Gunnery tests to shoot it now and getting a bonus from the drone's Sensor check? That would mean I wouldn't be using my regular firearms skills (like Automatics) but instead use Gunnery even if I were firing an assault rifle since it is now a drone. Is that about how it is supposed to work?
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You can:
A) Fire it in VR or AR mode with appropriate Stat (Sensor or Command), plus Gunnery, plus optional bonus dice from Sensor Test.
B) Let the gun fire itself using Pilot + Targeting + optional bonus dice from Sensor Test.
C) Fire it as a regular weapon, using Attribute + Skill, but no sensor test possible.
In all cases you may have bonus dice from other stuff like Smartlink.
TECHNICALLY, the rules on page 171 don't forbid using a Sensor Test to augment a regular Firearms roll, but since it's in the Vehicle Combat chapter I think it's probably implied that it has to be done via the vehicle rather than a regular weapon skill. Up to the GM, I suppose.
And yes, there is a reason the majority of folks with Pilot-modified weapons are Riggers, because most other folks don't have high Gunnery sklls.
-k
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Please note that in any of the "gun is a Drone" you DON'T point the gun, you let it aim itself and it need some kind of motive system or active mount, as it cannot control your meat body for that purpose...
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I don't see why someone couldn't point the gun if they are the one taking the gunnery test and the drone is assisting with targeting data. Otherwise there would be no point (rather, little point) in having a drone modified weapon without a propulsion modification.
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As I said, it's up to the GM.
The positioning of Active Targeting in the Vehicle Combat section means that many GMs are likely to require you use Gunnery instead of a regular Firearms skill. That's all I'm saying.
My rigger has a drone-modded machinegun. She often is seen firing from the hip or even not looking in the same direction she's firing. She's firing with Gunnery via AR, rather than using the Heavy Weapon skill, so you don't see her looking down the sights of the weapon.
-k
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Sorry I should have put in a quote. I was responding to this:
Please note that in any of the "gun is a Drone" you DON'T point the gun, you let it aim itself and it need some kind of motive system or active mount, as it cannot control your meat body for that purpose...
I think you are right on the money though KarmaInferno. ;D
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The Gunnery skill says "The use of all vehicule-mounted weapons, whether in mounts, pintles or turrets".
How is your "drone gun" different from a smartlink if it's not mounted on anything, has no propulsion system and is pointed at it's target by you, using your meat arms and body to point it using AR visual clues ?
It feel weird that a 1K nuyen mod (Pilot 1) would allow you to operate each and every kind of firearm from a holdout pistol to an anti-material rifle or a squad automatic weapon with a single skill - Gunnery.
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You can easily do that. If you mount the weapon on a drone. Or if the weapon IS the drone. Any weapon mounted on a vehicle or drone (or is one for that matter), is fired using the Gunnery skill. The rulebook is pretty clear on that. So if you mount a holdout pistol on a Steel Lynx (not sure why you would), you would fire it using the Gunnery skill.
How is it different than a Smartlink? Different software, different skills, different abstract game concept. There's plenty of stuff out there that does the same job as something else for cheaper. There is also the fact that the weapon must already have a Smartlink to get the modification, so it is enhancing the Smartlink instead of working in opposition. I think it makes sense within the rules. Even if you use it in this way, you aren't probably going to score too many bonus dice at any given time unless you shell out a fair amount of Nuyen to get the good software package.
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@Dahrken
Even weirder is that an anthromorph drone (human like) in close combat uses Gunnery, too, instead of close combat or melee weapons.
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I picked the wrong verb. Let me rephrase it.
According to your intepretation, as long as they are all equiped with at least a 1K nuyen piece of electronic and a few extra sensors, a character can pick up anything from a holdout pistol to a machine gun, hold it with one or two hands, shouldering it or using the sling as needed by it's physcal configuration, point it at a target (using is own body and muscles, the "drone" itself can do nothing physical beyond ejecting it's clip and firing) and fire it with a single skill, while another character would need to develop four separate skills to be able to use the same variety of weapons ?
Heck since the weapon, does it have full recoil compensation too, allowing you to go full auto with glee and a HMG ? Because it's now a drone, and by the rules drones are not affected by recoil.
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I look at it like playing a video game vs actually firing a weapon live.
Using Gunnery and AR, you're relying entirely on the HUD crosshairs and targeting data. Which would probably not be that dissimilar from playing an FPS game, since in those you often operate multiple weapon types with the same interface.
Firing live, you're actually having to line up the sights, etc. Every weapon behaves differently, so you need different skills for each category. Anyone who's fired a weapon in real life knows there's an entire body discipline that goes into shooting accurately.
Now, personally, I would have written the Drone modification so it's more expensive, and the weapon actually gets micro-servos installed so it can actually aim by itself, but the above is my justification for how the fluff might fit the rules as written.
-k
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Even weirder is that an anthromorph drone (human like) in close combat uses Gunnery, too, instead of close combat or melee weapons.
Actually, no. See Arsenal, p 102, Mechancial arms and legs + Attacking with mechanical Limbs.
The drone roll [Pilot (+Autosoft, exemple given "Blades", but "Unarmed would probably work too) +/- Handling], while a jumped-in rigger use [Response + skill +/- Handling].
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Now, personally, I would have written the Drone modification so it's more expensive, and the weapon actually gets micro-servos installed so it can actually aim by itself, but the above is my justification for how the fluff might fit the rules as written.
IMHO the key here is to view the Pilot weapon modification as a part of a system rather than a stand-alone system.
Similarly, SR3 Man and Machine listed a smartlink induction pads implant, with the associated a price and Essence. You could buy it and implant it in your hand, but without the other parts of the system (processor, display link...) it was useless.
And even without any actuators or mobility option a Pilot can be useful. For exemple a rifle with it and a Clearsight autosoft is able to work as a spotter for the sniper using the weapon, or can literally watch his back while he concentrate on his shot.