Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: FenrisWolf on <01-11-11/1327:18>
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I'm not sure I understand the rules regarding sustaining spells. As I read it, if a mage casts a spell with a sustained duration, he suffers a -2 dice pool modifier for all tests. I believe that this may stack with each additional sustained spell.
Here's what I don't understand. The spell Combat Sense is a sustained spell. It provides a positive dice pool modifier to reactions. However, due to it being a sustained spell, the caster would have to have three successes to give a single net success to reactions (+3 from hits during casting, -2 from sustaining the spell, providing a net +1). Is that correct?
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Yes, if he sustain the spell himself. That's why sustaining focus are a valuable commodity.
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Pretty much.
Which is why most folks throw it into a Sustaining Focus rather than maintain it manually.
-k
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Got it. A player can purchase a sustaining focus during character creation with a maximum force of 3 (availability 12). How exactly do they work? If a player had magic of 5 and spell casting of 6, do they need to reduce the force to 3 during the casting to use the foci? If so, would they then roll magic of 3 and spell casting of 6 to determine the net hits?
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You can use your full Magic score even when you cast a spell with lower Force. You just can't roll more than 3 hits if you cast at Force 3.
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They have to limit the Force, yes. But from what I recall, they roll full Magic and Spellcasting, the Force just limits the maximum number of hits they're allowed.
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And don't forget the all important Increase Reflexes with a Sustain Focus to give your Mage/Shaman that extra IP! That is if your spellcaster doesn't have something else providing more than one Initiative Pass in a Combat Turn.
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And don't forget the all important Increase Reflexes with a Sustain Focus to give your Mage/Shaman that extra IP! That is if your spellcaster doesn't have something else providing more than one Initiative Pass in a Combat Turn.
Yeah, that was another spell I was thinking of too. I'm currently creating a shaman and was trying to wrap my head around sustained spells. I should be able to buy a force 3 sustained spell foci for health spells and have it handle the sustaining requirement for Increased Reflexes. If I understand this correctly, I roll Magic 5 and Spellcasting 6. If I use the sustained foci I just limit the number of hits to 3 and I'm good to go. That would give me a max +2 initiative pass.
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You need to declare that your casting it at Force 3, then make your rolls. Jot down the number of 'net hits' just in case someone comes along and tries to attack the Focus to disrupt your spell. That shouldn't happen until after you've played for a while, not session one.
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Only downside with foci is they can be taken from you. Ok well addiction could be a issue as well but that seems less of a problem unless your Mr T'ing it with multiple shinys glowing away in the astral.
edit for correction
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In other words: Don't be a Christmas tree.
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Magic items are to a mage/shaman as cyberware and weapons are to a street sammi. If they get broke, ya buy new ones. Turn them off when you aren't using them too! You don't want to walk around with your Sustain Focus locked on your Force 3 Increase Reflexes 24/7. It's a beacon, as mentioned by Dead Monkey.
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The only real concern I have is when a mage feels they need three (or so) sustaining foci for combat situations. It strikes me that they are at the same time both over and under prepared.
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Don't forget that hits from Edge dice aren't limited by the spell's Force* so your Force 3 spells could have many more hits than that if you spend Edge and roll well.
Don't bother noting down net hits, though - any hits above the cap are wasted.
*: hence it's worth having two different colours of dice at the table!
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Sorry about that info regarding the net hits, I'm still fairly new to the rules too. Playing a Mage though, so getting better using the trial by fire method!
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The only real concern I have is when a mage feels they need three (or so) sustaining foci for combat situations. It strikes me that they are at the same time both over and under prepared.
As a fairly new returning 'Runner I can't say that running around with 3 Sustain Foci locked on has not provided me with any Uber-Power from CharGen. When I feel like the fecal matter is close to hitting the oscillation device, I usually hit Increased Relfexes (3), Combat Sense (3), and Improved Invisibility (3). The Invisiblity may be changed out for an Armor (3) depending on circumstances. This puts me in with the rest of the group with 3 IPs, 3 extra dice for a Reaction check, and 3 more dice on Ballistic and Impact armor. I've still managed to get dropped a few times, however its thanks to Edge and those extra dice my character still has a pulse. Keep in mind, the credo of the bad guys is to kill the Spell-Slinger first. Its best to keep a low profile, that rule I'm still working on, keep stepping out...
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The only real concern I have is when a mage feels they need three (or so) sustaining foci for combat situations. It strikes me that they are at the same time both over and under prepared.
As a fairly new returning 'Runner I can't say that running around with 3 Sustain Foci locked on has not provided me with any Uber-Power from CharGen. When I feel like the fecal matter is close to hitting the oscillation device, I usually hit Increased Relfexes (3), Combat Sense (3), and Improved Invisibility (3). The Invisiblity may be changed out for an Armor (3) depending on circumstances. This puts me in with the rest of the group with 3 IPs, 3 extra dice for a Reaction check, and 3 more dice on Ballistic and Impact armor. I've still managed to get dropped a few times, however its thanks to Edge and those extra dice my character still has a pulse. Keep in mind, the credo of the bad guys is to kill the Spell-Slinger first. Its best to keep a low profile, that rule I'm still working on, keep stepping out...
Couple of thoughts to your plan
Armour 3 while handy lights you up visually and makes you more of a target and requires a Manipulation sustaining focus
Advanced Invisibility at rating 3 doesnt work on cameras so is pointless and requires a Illusion sustaining focus
Combat Sense 3 is the most useful of your speels so far and I would agree with it generally, but lights you up in the astral which makes you a target to anyone who is seeing the astral. It also requires a Detection sustaining focus
Increased Reflexes 3 This requires a Health sustaining focus
By my count you need four focuses to manage your spells which even by the most relaxed GM you must be running the risk of addiction. If you power them all up in combat you lose alot of IPs and run the risk of drain and the cost is amazing. 180,000 (36bp) in cost plus bonding of 12BP at creation.
Its alot of BP just to make up for something you can get round by being smarter then everyone else.
Remember the golden rule - Drones and Trolls go in first, combat mages squash anyone still standing.
My personal opinion is never let someone get the drop on you always get the drop on them, makes single IPs not a issue. Always be hard to target use the area to your advantage (being lit up by a armour spell makes you very noticable) I prefer a good infiltration and a subtle approch. One thing to always remember if when you hit someone with magic hit them hard fast and dont let them get up again.
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Having one or two Sustaining Foci working can save your hide. With two spells you'd be at -4 for everything except Drain and Damage Resistance. With 10 dice on Spellcasting you can easily have, it's almost half of the pool off. That means less hits, and more glitches.
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While I understand that an Active Focus lights me up, doesn't the fact that I am Awakened light me up anyway? Anything that can see Astral will see me as a beacon, then notice the dots of light that are the active foci. Is that right?
Improved Invisibility does affect devices, thats why its Improved I thought.
I don't know what the RAW is regarding Focus Addiction, so I guess I'll learn about that the hard way. Why would RAW give you the ability to have the Foci then take it away with addiction? I'm still relatively new to the Shadowrun game, so I'm not asking the questions to be rude, I just don't know.
I never power up in Combat unless taken by surprise, which happened a time or two.
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While I understand that an Active Focus lights me up, doesn't the fact that I am Awakened light me up anyway? Anything that can see Astral will see me as a beacon, then notice the dots of light that are the active foci. Is that right?
Only if you're Astrally Active (perceiving or projecting). Otherwise, they have to make an Intuition + Assensing check and get a single hit to know that you're Awakened.
Anything active on the astral plane has a tangible astral form—projecting magicians, spirits, dual-natured beings, and so on.
AND
A character using astral perception is considered dual-natured, active on both the physical and astral planes simultaneously.
AND ALSO
Astral forms are active and substantial presences on the astral plane. Projecting magicians and spirits are free-roaming astral forms, but the astral forms of dual-natured beings (including those using astral perception) are tied to their physical world bodies. Astral forms are even brighter in the astral plane than auras, but most importantly, they are solid. An astral form cannot pass through another astral form.
*emphasis mine
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While I understand that an Active Focus lights me up, doesn't the fact that I am Awakened light me up anyway? Anything that can see Astral will see me as a beacon, then notice the dots of light that are the active foci. Is that right?
Only if you're Astrally Active (perceiving or projecting). Otherwise, they have to make an Intuition + Assensing check and get a single hit to know that you're Awakened.
Anything active on the astral plane has a tangible astral form—projecting magicians, spirits, dual-natured beings, and so on.
AND
A character using astral perception is considered dual-natured, active on both the physical and astral planes simultaneously.
AND ALSO
Astral forms are active and substantial presences on the astral plane. Projecting magicians and spirits are free-roaming astral forms, but the astral forms of dual-natured beings (including those using astral perception) are tied to their physical world bodies. Astral forms are even brighter in the astral plane than auras, but most importantly, they are solid. An astral form cannot pass through another astral form.
*emphasis mine
Thank you FastJack! I read the parts from the SR4a, but not the Street Magic. That applies to the Foci as well? I take it that it does.
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Since a Foci has to be activated to have an Astral Form, I'd rule that way in my games.
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So, wait. Can someone whack a spirit with an activated Sustaining Focus, and treat it as a dual-natured attack? Seems logical. :P
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So, wait. Can someone whack a spirit with an activated Sustaining Focus, and treat it as a dual-natured attack? Seems logical. :P
Well, it's not going to do much damage, but yeah. The problem is, since it's not a Weapon Focus, you won't add the Rating to the attack Dice Pool. And since it's an improvised weapon, it would get negative mods (Arsenal, p. 17). Add in that a magician probably won't have the Astral Combat skill raised too high if he doesn't have a Weapon Foci, and you can't default the AC skill AND the weapon's Damage Code would probably be (Str/2)...
Let's just say you might get the spirit's attention. ;)
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Yeah, but now imagine a troll hitting it. Hard. He doesn't need the Astral Combat skill, because he's using a dual-natured improvised weapon on a dual-natured target. That would count for something. :)
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By my count you need four focuses to manage your spells which even by the most relaxed GM you must be running the risk of addiction.
Emphasis is mine.
I am unable to locate the RAW that has to do with acquiring Foci Addiction, not counting the purposeful Negative Qualities that could be chosen at CharGen. Would anyone be able to help me with that? I checked SR4a and SM. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
As I mentioned but was at work and couldn't reference directly, the Improved Invisibility per SR4a p.209 "...creates an actual warping of light around the subject that affects technological sensors as well." So Improved Invisibility seems quite viable unless there are enemy mages around, in which case the recon done before hand should have alerted that situation (or maybe the Watcher Spirits).
So despite the expenditure of BP on those Sustain Foci, it seems to me that it is in line with RAW. As long as I do not have more than the number I can use as measured by Intuition, the number I can Bond (equal to Magic), not going over the limit of Force (Magic x 5).
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According to p. 8, Digital Grimoire, magicians are at risk for focus addiction when the total Force of their active foci is more than double their Magic rating.
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According to p. 8, Digital Grimoire, magicians are at risk for focus addiction when the total Force of their active foci is more than double their Magic rating.
Okay thanks Bradd! I don't have that book but probably someone in the game might.
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It's a PDF-only supplement. You can get it from one of the Shadowrun online stores.
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Improved Invisibility does affect devices, thats why its Improved I thought.
Yea improved will but you have to beat object resistance, Five in most cases if your dealing with tech (books may vary if you have the first pdf version of SR4A as the rule was changed). Its a pain but magic finds it hard to effect items which are very wildly removed from the natural world, the more you process a material from its raw state the less of a astral shadow it has for you to interact with.
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There's also focus addiction stuff in Street Magic, IIRC.