Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Digital_Viking on <01-10-11/1009:04>
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Ok so we have the Tir Ghosts, Sioux Wildcats and...well what else is there? I'm sure they are mentioned somewhere, but I have missed it - so what are some other the other "premier" units in Shadowrun? Anything from CAS, or one of the merc companies? As I say, I'm sure they have been mentioned, but damned if I can find them.
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SAS mentioned in the London Sourcebook (way back in first Edition), also cited in the 3rd Edition follow-up Shadows of Europe but there aren't any stats or history details, etc.
I know that there was a chapter on mercenary outfits in obne of the third Edition sourcebooks, State of the Art 2063 I think. Met 2000, Tsunami, 10,000 Daggers etc. That goes into the background and fluff along with new toys and rules. The only other book really going to town on military/mercenaries in the Sixth World was the second Edition Fields of Fire sourcebook, now available as an ebook download.
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Don't know why SAS (and Firewatch) slipped my mind.
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CAS ferrets,
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CAS ferrets,
Where's that from?
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CAS ferrets,
Where's that from?
Just Compensation, a novel by Robert Charette. They were retconned in SoNA to not really exist and the Ferrets name now belongs to a Marine recon unit. Pthbbbbbbbt on that.
UCAS and CAS basically have the same specfor units as now. Seattle 2072 says the Ranges allow women though. I used to run the SR military site if you can find it on the Internet Archive. The special mission units now are likely to still exist. So it is a matter of new countries than whether the SEALs are still around (they are).
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Just Compensation, a novel by Robert Charette. They were retconned in SoNA to not really exist and the Ferrets name now belongs to a Marine recon unit. Pthbbbbbbbt on that.
UCAS and CAS basically have the same specfor units as now. Seattle 2072 says the Ranges allow women though. I used to run the SR military site if you can find it on the Internet Archive. The special mission units now are likely to still exist. So it is a matter of new countries than whether the SEALs are still around (they are).
Well I just assumed Marines existence - we are eternal ;) Thanks, I will give it a look up
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In the novel they are Force Recon or a subunit of FR (I forget which) but they act with similar undercover subversive tactics as Spetsnaz. I thought it was a cool idea. Apparently others felt differently. Of course these militaries are considerably smaller now and so it wuld stand to reason that specfor would change as well over time to reflect being part of militaries with no official presence beyond their own borders.
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I have added a "Spellbourne" Magical unit and a black ops hacker unit to my Shadowrun Game.
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Renraku has the Red Samurai, elite "security" teams. Each squad of five usually includes one spellcaster.
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I have heard the (UCAS) Navy S.E.A.L.s referenced, if only in passing and in character creation posts.
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I think that it would make sense that the French Foreign Legion would still be around. Also the British Marine Commando and SBS. Russia would still have the Spetsnaz and Alfa. Now whether Germany would still have the GSG9 is up for debate seeing that the country split up. At least this is my opinion.
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I imagine one or more of the various German states would maintain something at least resembling it.
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Azzie's Leopard Guard.
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I imagine one or more of the various German states would maintain something at least resembling it.
You got to wonder how special a Spec force team is when they come from a really small nation state without huge budgets. Special Forces take millions of dollars to train and equip. I mean does Costa Rica's special forces really hold a candle to the Russia's Alfa or Delta? I guess maybe if some of the small German states spec ops were supported by SK? Then the question would be could you really trust them?
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I suppose not. Most militarized nations, no matter how small, seem to at least attempt creating their own special forces teams. Even if by "special forces" they just mean technicals that don't break down every three miles and AK-47s with bullets included.
And just to be a nitpicking, factoid spewing dick ( ;) ), Cost Rica has no special forces. They abolished their military in 1946.
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Still, if you count Germany GSG9 or Russia Alpha group as special forces, then you must count Costa Rica Unidad Especial de Intervención and Unidad Especial de Apoyo, as none of them are military units ; they all belong to police or security services.
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The German special operations unit is the KSK. I think they were mentioned in Target: Smuggler Havens in the North Sea chapter when it refers to the BIS, the AGS counterintelligence agency.
The list of global SMUs on specialoperations.com is ridiculous. An elite military unit is something everyone wants because they are cool, but few rarely need. Same goes for police units.
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I suppose not. Most militarized nations, no matter how small, seem to at least attempt creating their own special forces teams. Even if by "special forces" they just mean technicals that don't break down every three miles and AK-47s with bullets included.
And just to be a nitpicking, factoid spewing dick ( ;) ), Cost Rica has no special forces. They abolished their military in 1946.
Yeah right Self Defense Force, Security Force, etc... Whatever you want to call them are still military even if they only have a police or para-military designation.
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I imagine one or more of the various German states would maintain something at least resembling it.
You got to wonder how special a Spec force team is when they come from a really small nation state without huge budgets. Special Forces take millions of dollars to train and equip. I mean does Costa Rica's special forces really hold a candle to the Russia's Alfa or Delta? I guess maybe if some of the small German states spec ops were supported by SK? Then the question would be could you really trust them?
Well, in real life the disparity between size/population of nation-states is (partially) mitigated by the web of political alliances around the world. The nations with bigger budgets and more renowned military forces (America, for instance) often sends trainers to help out countries with smaller budgets and less wartime experience.
I know of at least a few instances in Shadowrun where that's still the case -- the Sioux Wildcats, for instance, are known for being used to train and equip friendly forces in other countries.
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Whatever happened to the Bundeswehr anyway? All 4E books say, if they mention the topic, the AGS has barred itself from having armed forces and hence relies on mercenaries. But from the Germany Sourcebook onwards, including I think English publication, the Bundeswehr was still around as the AGS military... I mean, Germany extremly decentralised, but apart from Marienbad and Hamburg it didnt officially split up. Or did I miss something?
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AFAIK, MET2000 still serves as the AGS's military. But I haven't really checked since Shadows of Europe.
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According to Germany Sourcebok, page 52, the Bundeswehr still exists, along with MET2000. Shadows of Europe says nothing specific, though there is one mention of "the MET and the military". Can't say about German only resources.
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Interesting maybe it was a mistake on the part of FASA or there might be regional German forces like some sort of reserve?
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Interesting maybe it was a mistake on the part of FASA or there might be regional German forces like some sort of reserve?
According to the Germany Sourcebook the single German states have militia/national guard like units, but they are restricted to 1/1000th of the population and no heavy equipment. The Bundeswehr still exists on Alliance level, though the Alliance also uses the MET2000 Mercenaries. Shadows of Europe implicitly continued that, and German publications explicitly. It seems like Catalyst for some reason suddenly has disregarded that previous canon material, though. Seems more like (really silly, IMO) retcon than a misunderstanding to me.
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Still, if you count Germany GSG9 or Russia Alpha group as special forces, then you must count Costa Rica Unidad Especial de Intervención and Unidad Especial de Apoyo, as none of them are military units ; they all belong to police or security services.
Touche, sir. Touche.
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OK, are we talking regular military units, or military special forces? Because I would wager that every nation has at least some kind of defense force, no matter how small it may be. And if we are counting special "police" units like SWAT/HRT, that list would only get longer. The FBI has one of the best HRT teams in the world, and
I doubt that would change, even with the rise of the UCAS.
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I think the thread's supposed to be about military special forces teams specifically.
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I think the thread's supposed to be about military special forces teams specifically.
Yeah sorry, I wasn't more specific
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I think the thread's supposed to be about military special forces teams specifically.
True, but when you have a small country, their police forces often double as such. And I thought when units like the German GSG9 was mentioned, I thought I would also mention the FBI HRT because of their prestigue and that they do a lot of crosstraining with military units.
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Fair enough.
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So to go back to the OP the CAS has SEALs (Cyberpirates!) and Special Forces (I cannot fnd the book ref but I know they exist). It would be easier to know who to look for but really there is not much info despite twenty years worth of people asking.
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so what happened to S-K SSG Crimson?
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I imagine one or more of the various German states would maintain something at least resembling it.
You got to wonder how special a Spec force team is when they come from a really small nation state without huge budgets. Special Forces take millions of dollars to train and equip.
Check out the Australian SAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Air_Service_Regiment_(Australia))some time. We're not a big population (around 22M, compared to Canada at 33M, and the USA at around 310M), and we don't have a big military budget.... don't have stats for it... but I can assure you the USA beats us hands down on military spending :)
But if you've ever served with the Australia, British (or even New Zealand) SAS in a joint exercise, from any military service from any country in any engagement, you will see that they're up there with the best in the world.
As a general rule, the Australian public has no idea where all SAS troops are at any given time. But we do know they were in hostile countries such as Afghanistan and the Gulf a long time before any official Army/Navy/Air Force troops were committed to the conflict. The SAS are sneaky...
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Canada's JTF-2 (Joint Task Force-Two) is the same way.
In fact, it was hilarious a little while ago: They had to order a Court Marshal Hearing for one of them. Problem is, all the officers in question didn't have the clearance to know *ANYTHING*.
I'm not talking about just the operation, but anything at all!
"What's the person's name?" "Classified." "Rank?" "Classified." "Location?" "Classified." "Charge?" "Classified." "... ... ... So somebody whose name and rank we don't know, did something we don't know that was bad enough to warrant this hearing to see if he's guilty or innocent, in a place we can't hear about?" "Exactly." "Not guilty on grounds of not enough evidence."
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Canada's JTF-2 (Joint Task Force-Two) is the same way.
In fact, it was hilarious a little while ago: They had to order a Court Marshal Hearing for one of them. Problem is, all the officers in question didn't have the clearance to know *ANYTHING*.
I'm not talking about just the operation, but anything at all!
"What's the person's name?" "Classified." "Rank?" "Classified." "Location?" "Classified." "Charge?" "Classified." "... ... ... So somebody whose name and rank we don't know, did something we don't know that was bad enough to warrant this hearing to see if he's guilty or innocent, in a place we can't hear about?" "Exactly." "Not guilty on grounds of not enough evidence."
Ahh, the technicalities of the legal system :)
Sets a very bad precedent for other JTF-2 members though. Basically now have carte blanche to ignore the military justice system...
Dangerous precedent indeed...
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Come on, it's the Canadians! What's the worst that could happen? *The Joker Grin* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Heh heh... Heh.
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Intelligence field folks who flew pulled that classified crap all the time for medals. They'd put themselves in for an award and then claim all the details were classified to they'd basically be auto-approved.
Pissed me off to no end, because that was points they had toward promotion that nobody else could compete against.
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I'm willing to bet that JTF-2, the various SAS and SBS, and I bet the US Military SpecOps forces have a tendency of earning what they do have.
And, if anything, are probably understated.
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Oh yea no doubt, I just hated that particular arguement for something 100 percent undeserving of it, like going on a routine Rivet Joint flight that doesn't even cross over to some other nation's boundaries.
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so what happened to S-K SSG Crimson?
*shrugs*
S-K isn't my wheelhouse.
It seems weird that Australia would combine their intelligence and security services into one monolithic (relatively speaking) secret police unit that probably runs SASR outright.
Ha!
London SB is so funny. SAS as a secret police force. Of course, it was shadowtalk. Things changed over the years to make it clear that SAS is still SAS, but the LPO Oversight Board and Office (which basically polices the OB and the rest of the LPO among other things having to do with the druids) has influence because their relationship with MI5 and MI6 dragged them into the machinations of the politicians in the OB. I thought it was a pretty awesomely SR system as I describe it in SG myself, especially in light of the changes going on in the UK since 6WA.
In fact, it was hilarious a little while ago: They had to order a Court Marshal Hearing for one of them. Problem is, all the officers in question didn't have the clearance to know *ANYTHING*.
:o
That's like how the few (if any) people who know or are cleared to know about all of the DoD's "special access programs" do not include the President or the Secretary of Defense.
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In fact, it was hilarious a little while ago: They had to order a Court Marshal Hearing for one of them. Problem is, all the officers in question didn't have the clearance to know *ANYTHING*.
:o
That's like how the few (if any) people who know or are cleared to know about all of the DoD's "special access programs" do not include the President or the Secretary of Defense.
Canadian Security Clearances work a little differently than the ones in the USA. I was a reference for someone to get his security clearance (Friend of mine is an officer in the Canadian Armed Forces and had to get cleared to go to the Royal Military College), so I got a bit of an info-dump on how it worked from the CSIS agent that interviewed me.
Freaked me the hell out when he showed up, BTW, with my family background. :P And then he tried to recruit me.
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You know, that doesn't speak well of CSIS in some ways...
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Canadian Security Clearances work a little differently than the ones in the USA. I was a reference for someone to get his security clearance (Friend of mine is an officer in the Canadian Armed Forces and had to get cleared to go to the Royal Military College), so I got a bit of an info-dump on how it worked from the CSIS agent that interviewed me.
Freaked me the hell out when he showed up, BTW, with my family background. :P And then he tried to recruit me.
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You know, that doesn't speak well of CSIS in some ways...
It's always good to have the crazies on YOUR side... that's probably the angle they were playing :P
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It's always good to have the crazies on YOUR side... that's probably the angle they were playing :P
Maybe, but I didn't even have a College Diploma at that time. I wasn't exactly what most people would consider a "Really Good Hire" for a lot of reasons.
But, I had employment, no criminal record (Still don't), and was one of the most upstanding citizens he knew. So I got to talk to the nice former RCMP branch...
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Ha!
London SB is so funny. SAS as a secret police force. Of course, it was shadowtalk. Things changed over the years to make it clear that SAS is still SAS, but the LPO Oversight Board and Office (which basically polices the OB and the rest of the LPO among other things having to do with the druids) has influence because their relationship with MI5 and MI6 dragged them into the machinations of the politicians in the OB.
Less funny when you go back to the Eighties (London Sourcebook got out in 1991). The SAS and Army Intelligence Corps were operating undercover in Northern Ireland to gather intelligence and arrest terrorists (sometimes with extreme prejudice). Obviously, there is nothing really solid on their operations, but there has been quite some literature and media coverage on the so-called 'Shoot-to kill' policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot-to-kill_policy_in_Northern_Ireland) since.