Shadowrun

Catalyst Game Labs => Errata => Topic started by: Wakshaani on (16:56:59/12-17-15)

Title: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (16:56:59/12-17-15)
And there's already one. D'oh.

***********

KN-Y0 Phobos, (Page 124)
The chart is shifted one notch off. It should be:
Handl 3, Speed 2G, Accel 1, Body 6(0), Arm 18, Pilot 5, Sensor 3, Avail 16F, cost 250,000

***********

As you spot more, drop 'em in here and we'll get those fixes in ASAP.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: MijRai on (20:21:10/12-17-15)
First paragraph of Introduction; 'drek' was turned into Derek.  Unless using peoples' names as curse words is now a thing? 
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (20:28:03/12-17-15)
Well, Derek *is* a jerk...

(notes the typo. Thank you!)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Orudeon on (22:48:02/12-17-15)
BMW Luxus (Page 73) doesn't have a listed availability field or value,  but those weapon mounts don't lead me to believe it'd be unrestricted at least  ???
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: TeOdio on (00:57:21/12-18-15)
Unless I am mistaken, this misspelled Aguilar as Aguilar. No hable Espanol I suppose.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: darklordmo on (01:46:46/12-18-15)
Eyyo. Two things, both relating to the electromagnetic mods section for vehicles; first, on page 168 in the description of the pilot mod, it says it rates from 1 through 9, yet on the table on page 169 it only goes up to 6. I assume the description is wrong. Second, more of an editing issue, but on the same table on page 169 the last three columns got borked, the availability numbers got smashed into the skill column and the price got put in their place resulting in the price column to be mostly empty. Just thought you guys might want to know to edit it.

Thanks for the great amount of toys by the way. Love the book.

P.S. Is there a reason that rating 5 and 6 of drone pilot are forbidden (F) but the rating 5 and 6 of vehicle pilot are only restricted (R)? Also rating 1 and 2 drone pilot are not restricted at all, yet the same ratings for vehicle pilot are (which doesn't make much sense to me since most cars have a rating 1 or 2 pilot anyways).

Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (04:24:32/12-18-15)
p.141 talks about making the Aeroquip Dustoff more expensive, but fails to give new prices (This also teaches me not to talk about handy tricks like that online, curse you invisible hand  ;) )
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Darzil on (06:05:03/12-18-15)
P.S. Is there a reason that rating 5 and 6 of drone pilot are forbidden (F) but the rating 5 and 6 of vehicle pilot are only restricted (R)? Also rating 1 and 2 drone pilot are not restricted at all, yet the same ratings for vehicle pilot are (which doesn't make much sense to me since most cars have a rating 1 or 2 pilot anyways).
I can see a certain logic to making vehicle pilot changes all restricted. You are basically taking a production mass produced well tested vehicle and replacing the code that runs it, which probably hasn't been extensively tested. Whilst it isn't illegal, it isn't something they want people doing all the time.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (08:12:11/12-18-15)
p.141 talks about making the Aeroquip Dustoff more expensive, but fails to give new prices (This also teaches me not to talk about handy tricks like that online, curse you invisible hand  ;) )

It happened to come up right about when I was finishing up. You're famous. :D This mod was missed, as were the alterations to previous drones. I'll assemble a list for this and ask Jason if it was intentional (No retcons!) or if it was just missed in the copy-paste. You'll note that pre-existing drones don't have movement types listed or a Body(slots) listing, so, I'm thinking Copy Paste-o struck.

Quote
Eyyo. Two things, both relating to the electromagnetic mods section for vehicles; first, on page 168 in the description of the pilot mod, it says it rates from 1 through 9, yet on the table on page 169 it only goes up to 6. I assume the description is wrong. Second, more of an editing issue, but on the same table on page 169 the last three columns got borked, the availability numbers got smashed into the skill column and the price got put in their place resulting in the price column to be mostly empty. Just thought you guys might want to know to edit it.

Thanks for the great amount of toys by the way. Love the book.

P.S. Is there a reason that rating 5 and 6 of drone pilot are forbidden (F) but the rating 5 and 6 of vehicle pilot are only restricted (R)? Also rating 1 and 2 drone pilot are not restricted at all, yet the same ratings for vehicle pilot are (which doesn't make much sense to me since most cars have a rating 1 or 2 pilot anyways).

Pilot should be 1-6, yes. A 9 would be a typo. *jots*

The columns bit I didn't see! *notes* An easy fix.

We'll have to clean up teh rule collision on pilots. IMHO, 1-2 -, 3-4 R, 5-6 F makes the most sense, but, I'm not in a position to put an official stamp on that. Will bounce it upstairs to find out for sure.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (08:27:35/12-18-15)
Copy-Paste to try and get 'em all in one location.

SlashXVI 3 points 7 hours ago*

There are several cases of tables beeing formated wrong (adding as I find them):
 •p.144: Ares KN-y1 (Phobos) misses Handling=3 and table ajustment acordinly

 •p.160: protection modification table, has availability for anti-theft rating 4 not in the right column, adjust final columns acordingly.

 •p.167: body modifications, same problem only with valkyrie module

 •p. 169: eloctromagnetic modifications: same problem several times [Gridlink, Gridlink override, pilot enhancement, satellite link, sensor enhancements, sun cell, touch sensor]

 •p.171: cosmetic modifications: same thing here [interior cameras, Vehicle tag eraser]
 
Additional things I noticed (will add when I find something new):
•Multiple motorcycles list gyro stabilization as a standard upgrade, still there is no describtion of what it actually does.

 •Same goes for smart tires

 •p.168 says that the pilot enhancement can be as high as rating 9, the corresponding table(p.169) only lists prices up to rating 6

 •The Yamaha Kabuyara (p.44) might have a wrong statline. As it is right now it is as good or worse than the Suzuki Mirage (core) in every category while beeing twice as expensive and not rocking any upgrades to warrant the price difference.

 •Multiple drones have their speed listed as

 •The Thundercloud Morgan lists "Manual Operation" as its standard equiment and even though it seems pretty clear what it does from the name, this piece of equipment is mentioned nowhere else in the book.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on (08:56:32/12-18-15)
Manual operation is in the CRB (with no discription crunch wise).
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Slamm-O! on (15:34:27/12-18-15)
In the compiled tables section the F-B Bumblebee from Nothing Personal isn't listed. 

Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ZeldaBravo on (16:09:44/12-18-15)
There are no rules for the Smart Tires or Gyro Stabilization systems in the book, or any other 5e books.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Csjarrat on (20:20:11/12-18-15)
There are no rules for the Smart Tires or Gyro Stabilization systems in the book, or any other 5e books.
this.
there is also no pilot skill listed with the snake drone. what does it use?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (21:50:43/12-18-15)
Can we assume that anthropomorphic drones have the equivalent of cyberlimbs with regular upgrade capacity, or do they have sort of primitive arms?
Also if I exchange the drones piloting program, does it suddenly make the arms more agile? (This may be more a question than "Info is missing errata", as I might have plain overlooked said info; In this case, notify me so I can move this to somewhere more appropriate)
Second similar question ( I should report this in the rules section): If Anthro-Drones can go where a human can, I assume they are at least partially waterproof?
Edit: For some reason I couldn't zoom the pdf right now, but I think I read "there cannot be some armor of one time along with some of the other." regarding vehicle armour upgrades.
I think that should be "type"?
Edit2: I think there's also a typo in the ejection seats description.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (01:26:55/12-19-15)
There are no rules for the Smart Tires or Gyro Stabilization systems in the book, or any other 5e books.
this.
there is also no pilot skill listed with the snake drone. what does it use?

It *should* have been there.

It's Pilot Exotic Vehicle. (Egads!)

Needless to say, most people just let the Pilot handle it. :)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Medicineman on (02:10:12/12-19-15)
In the compiled tables section the F-B Bumblebee from Nothing Personal isn't listed.

So the Bumblebee keeps to be ...an Ace up the Sleeve for those who have the PDF / know about it
a kind of Superior Drone for the "collectors" for the "Elite" Muahahahaha :D

with an elitary Dance
Medicineman
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: MijRai on (02:58:19/12-19-15)
The Ram Plate doesn't appear to have a price on a table either.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Csjarrat on (03:11:08/12-19-15)
Am I being daft or did the rcc get no love whatsoever in this book?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Adamo1618 on (07:20:49/12-19-15)
Cluster munitions are mentioned but no actual rules for them are given, except that they "act like multiple small explosives".
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Sendaz on (13:35:12/12-19-15)
Am I being daft or did the rcc get no love whatsoever in this book?
I was hoping it would have settled the dongle for RCC yes/no question once and for all, but still not seeing it though maybe they are using a different term and just missed it.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Malevolence on (15:14:06/12-19-15)
I might just be missing it, but now that we have different types of flexibility for weapon mounts, we don't have much in the way of rules for using them. Since SR in general doesn't take facing into account other than GM ruling and common sense, there doesn't seem to be a strong penalty for having a fixed weapon mount. In general, there seems to be little game mechanical difference between a Fixed Flexibility turret and a Flexible Flexibility turret - so long as the gun is pointing in the general direction (say a rear mounted weapon during a pursuit), they have the same chances of hitting a target. Or is there a rule somewhere that makes it more difficult to target a weapon on a fixed mount over a flexible one?


Also, not only did RCCs get no love, they appear to have been subtly nerfed. Clearsight, which used to be universally applicable to all drones, is now drone specific, meaning that sharing autosofts is that much less efficient. They got a slight buff as a result of nerfing drones - drones can now no longer run an autosoft with a rating higher than the pilot rating, where they used to be able to do that. So you can consider the RCC's being able to break that restriction a buff, but it really only seems like one whine being business as usual while seeming better because another system got nerfed.


The book makes extensive reference to the best strategy being a stable of different drones used in concert, but it has made doing so significantly more difficult by making all autosofts drone specific (including the new ones introduced) rather than the handy exclusions of Clearsight and EW. And if you try to compensate by running the software on the drone to free up RCC slots, you can't go as high out of char gen (pilot 4 limits autosoft to 4 for a total pool of 8 as opposed to the previous fixed pilot rating of 3 for drones and a rating 6 autosoft for a dice pool of 9), and the cost to go that high is 2k for the autosoft and 3200 for the pilot upgrade (total 5200) versus 3k for a rating 6 autosoft. Sure, you only have to purchase the pilot upgrade once, but since (barring VM) the drones can only run 2 autosofts, that's 7200 to get two skill at dice pool 8 in Rigger 5.0 vs. 6k for two skills at dice pool 9 under the core. Add in VM, and it is 9200 vs. 9k, still keeping in mind that it is a DP of 8 vs. a DP of 9. One of the major complaints of riggers (or drones) prior to the book was that they had abysmal dice pools, and this simply made it worse until you are swimming in nuyen and have the means to obtain 16F or 24F gear.


10k nuyen (and repurchasing all of your autosofts) to get an extra die in your pool isn't terribly expensive, but isn't terribly great, and still is kinda borderline useful. 20k nuyen and again, repurchasing all of your autosofts to get an actually reasonable DP of 12 is rather expensive, but possibly worth it. However, this is top end and a DP of 12 is rather lackluster.


Maybe it works better in play than it appears on the surface - I'm willing to be convinced - but at first blush, it really looks like an overall nerf.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Beta-Max on (22:11:39/12-19-15)
Page 30 - "Confuse Pilot" action - Should read "Logic [Data Processing]" not "Logic [Attack]" this has been confirmed via response from Catlyst.

Page 124 - Drone Weapon Mounts - Table for new sizes of mounts but no nuyen costs for non pop-up or pop-out mounts.

Page 130 - Scuttler - yes we have stats for it as a cyberhand but no stats for it when used as a walker drone
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: gradivus on (22:12:23/12-19-15)
Am I being daft or did the rcc get no love whatsoever in this book?
I was hoping it would have settled the dongle for RCC yes/no question once and for all, but still not seeing it though maybe they are using a different term and just missed it.

The developers have chimed in on this...dongles are not meant for RCCs.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: gradivus on (22:19:55/12-19-15)
I might just be missing it, but now that we have different types of flexibility for weapon mounts, we don't have much in the way of rules for using them. Since SR in general doesn't take facing into account other than GM ruling and common sense, there doesn't seem to be a strong penalty for having a fixed weapon mount. In general, there seems to be little game mechanical difference between a Fixed Flexibility turret and a Flexible Flexibility turret - so long as the gun is pointing in the general direction (say a rear mounted weapon during a pursuit), they have the same chances of hitting a target. Or is there a rule somewhere that makes it more difficult to target a weapon on a fixed mount over a flexible one?


Also, not only did RCCs get no love, they appear to have been subtly nerfed. Clearsight, which used to be universally applicable to all drones, is now drone specific, meaning that sharing autosofts is that much less efficient. They got a slight buff as a result of nerfing drones - drones can now no longer run an autosoft with a rating higher than the pilot rating, where they used to be able to do that. So you can consider the RCC's being able to break that restriction a buff, but it really only seems like one whine being business as usual while seeming better because another system got nerfed.


The book makes extensive reference to the best strategy being a stable of different drones used in concert, but it has made doing so significantly more difficult by making all autosofts drone specific (including the new ones introduced) rather than the handy exclusions of Clearsight and EW. And if you try to compensate by running the software on the drone to free up RCC slots, you can't go as high out of char gen (pilot 4 limits autosoft to 4 for a total pool of 8 as opposed to the previous fixed pilot rating of 3 for drones and a rating 6 autosoft for a dice pool of 9), and the cost to go that high is 2k for the autosoft and 3200 for the pilot upgrade (total 5200) versus 3k for a rating 6 autosoft. Sure, you only have to purchase the pilot upgrade once, but since (barring VM) the drones can only run 2 autosofts, that's 7200 to get two skill at dice pool 8 in Rigger 5.0 vs. 6k for two skills at dice pool 9 under the core. Add in VM, and it is 9200 vs. 9k, still keeping in mind that it is a DP of 8 vs. a DP of 9. One of the major complaints of riggers (or drones) prior to the book was that they had abysmal dice pools, and this simply made it worse until you are swimming in nuyen and have the means to obtain 16F or 24F gear.


10k nuyen (and repurchasing all of your autosofts) to get an extra die in your pool isn't terribly expensive, but isn't terribly great, and still is kinda borderline useful. 20k nuyen and again, repurchasing all of your autosofts to get an actually reasonable DP of 12 is rather expensive, but possibly worth it. However, this is top end and a DP of 12 is rather lackluster.


Maybe it works better in play than it appears on the surface - I'm willing to be convinced - but at first blush, it really looks like an overall nerf.

I never thought that RAI was for drones to be able to run any rating autosoft.
They just reaffirmed what was intended.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Duck N. Cover on (23:51:33/12-19-15)
The Jackpoint crew notes the Class 2,3, and 4 variants for the Shiawase I-Doll, but only lists one price.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: IntrepidVector on (01:14:52/12-20-15)
Quote from: Drones, Enduring Downgrades pg. 123
Furthermore, no matter how many Downgrades you make, you only receive a single extra Mod Point.
Am I reading this correctly? You can only get +1 MP for a drone total, no matter what you reduce and how far? That seems overly limited to me.

Also, I can't figure out how moveable drones with 0 Speed are supposed to be. As least the kind that are not Immobile. For example, can the Condor still reposition itself by slowly floating to a new position?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Ryo on (03:55:14/12-20-15)
The Matilda has Pilot 2 but comes with Targeting 3. Since autosofts are limited by pilot, this wouldn't work.

On that note, this feels like a completely insane nerf on a category of gear that was already underpowered. I personally don't understand the reasoning behind it, nor the logic of having Pilot and Autosoft both max out at a rating of 6 when the average Metahuman can get the equivalent scores (Attribute + Skill) up to 12 or higher. It's incredibly hard for me to believe that with 60 more years of robotics research, the world of 2075 is still developing robots and drones that are inherently worse at performing a task, even one they are specifically designed for, than a skilled person, especially by such a huge margin. A completely mundane human can hit a dice pool of 20, while the most advanced drone in the world will never have higher than 12.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Medicineman on (05:11:00/12-20-15)
....oO( thats what CGL gets for raising only on Part of the Basic Rules ,namely the Skills. Now other parts of the other Rules become...unhinged and if the New Autopilot Rules suck so much, I'll guess I stick with the BBB Rules....)

 
Quote
A completely mundane human can hit a dice pool of 20, 
and a cybered up 24 with Specialisation 26 and with Gear or Matrix Assistance  27+
but basically you're right ( I just wanted to Nit Pick ;) )

with a Dance lost in thought
Medicineman
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (06:24:36/12-20-15)
The Jackpoint crew notes the Class 2,3, and 4 variants for the Shiawase I-Doll, but only lists one price.

That's an in-universe description of how much of a Realistic rating they have. (Class 2 has Rating 2, Class 3 has 3, etc) ... Trying to write around game terms always trips me up. (Gawd, you don't even want to know how many times I had to go around "Essence" for Chrome Flesh!)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (06:35:16/12-20-15)
Quote from: Drones, Enduring Downgrades pg. 123
Furthermore, no matter how many Downgrades you make, you only receive a single extra Mod Point.
Am I reading this correctly? You can only get +1 MP for a drone total, no matter what you reduce and how far? That seems overly limited to me.

That was intentional, to keep people from shredding "unimportant" stuff like Acceleration and Sensors to strap more guns to something. This freed up some imbalanced designs, knowing that they couldn't be "gamed" into a radically different shape as people sat down and tried to over-efficient things. (Take a Cheetah, drop it to Speed 0, save from teh Acceleration, and now you have 6 points to...) A tad harsh, but needed to allow for things like the Cheetah to exist. GMs could drop that rule, but should be *very* wary of it!

In general, you're better off finding a drone that you don't need to modify as heavily to do what you need. :)

Quote
Also, I can't figure out how moveable drones with 0 Speed are supposed to be. As least the kind that are not Immobile. For example, can the Condor still reposition itself by slowly floating to a new position?

There's a difference between Speed 0 (putts along gradually) vs Speed - (doesn't move at all) ... ground-based Speed 0 drones move at about 15 KPH, while Rotor drones move at about 30 KPH and are going to lose any type of pursuit tests against even a Speed 1 target... even Metahumans can outrun them, but they *do* move. Immobile drones can turn in place (like turrets) or have moving parts if needed for what they do (The Job-o-Mat Barrista has a small door that opens and closes... while closed, it drops a cup, fills it, then the door pops open so that the drink can be taken, then it closes again) but beyond that, they don't move at all.

So, yes, the Condor can gradually reposition itself, but if it gets too windy, it won't be able to hold position. Then again, the Condor can idle over/near alocation for days, even weeks in good conditions, allowing you to gather gobs of data. Cheks and balances! FInding the right tool for the job is going to be important for Riggers!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (06:37:41/12-20-15)
The Matilda has Pilot 2 but comes with Targeting 3. Since autosofts are limited by pilot, this wouldn't work..

This should be a Pilot 3 drone. (Typo!)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (06:48:50/12-20-15)
On that note, this feels like a completely insane nerf on a category of gear that was already underpowered. I personally don't understand the reasoning behind it, nor the logic of having Pilot and Autosoft both max out at a rating of 6 when the average Metahuman can get the equivalent scores (Attribute + Skill) up to 12 or higher. It's incredibly hard for me to believe that with 60 more years of robotics research, the world of 2075 is still developing robots and drones that are inherently worse at performing a task, even one they are specifically designed for, than a skilled person, especially by such a huge margin. A completely mundane human can hit a dice pool of 20, while the most advanced drone in the world will never have higher than 12.

Chalk it up to the first Crash, which eradicated virtually every computer on Earth, a second Crash, and corporations having collusion and research that goes beyond that being kneecapped by Shadowrunners.

From a more game-centric view, if drones are better at everything than Metahumans, why not have them do everything? Why have Deckers when a Hacking Drone beats them in every category? (4th ed ran into this, HARD, when people started summoning Task Spirits who were better at programming than any Metahuman that ever was, or would, be. FastJack being trashed in the Matrix by a Shaman with a stick just stinks, you know?) ... This is why Skillwires can't get as good as Metahuman skill potential, for instance.

This also gives the Rigger some choices ...she can let drones handle things on their own, where their dice pools are limited, or take manual control for when they want to really focus on a task. You can see this with Tater Tot in the chapter fiction ... she lets her Proletariat handle minor repairs while she's otherwise occupied, but takes over for the important stuff. A Rigger with 6 drones that are rolling 6-8 dice won't dominate a gametable like one with the same number dropping 12-15 dice. THAT Rigger doesn't need to bother with a team.

So, there ya go. A little look behind the curtain. :)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (06:52:03/12-20-15)
So this book gave riggers a lot of new options, but made most of the options worse than before? Unexpected direction.
Then again, the game didn't need a second summoner, I suppose.

If we use the drone mod rules, can we still use vehicle mods on them that aren't detailed in the drone section?
If an anthroform is equipped with a cyberweapon, will it still use a melee soft for unarmed like a metahuman, or will it need a special soft for that?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (07:07:39/12-20-15)
So this book gave riggers a lot of new options, but made most of the options worse than before? Unexpected direction.
Then again, the game didn't need a second summoner, I suppose.

There's debate about the 'made worse' ... it depends on if your game was allowing a drone to use Autosofts of higher Rating than its Pilot or not.

You can now get a Smartgun mod, which you previously couldn't do, and increase your Pilot, which increases the Rating of the other Autosofts you can use, you can now run *more* Autosofts than before, and, of course, you can upgrade the drone's armor, attributes, guns, etc.

More options, even if one path was closed off.

Quote
If we use the drone mod rules, can we still use vehicle mods on them that aren't detailed in the drone section?
If an anthroform is equipped with a cyberweapon, will it still use a melee soft for unarmed like a metahuman, or will it need a special soft for that?

Yup, but note that many Vehicle mods are too big to fit. (Dones also only have a single category of Mod Points, rather than several. Hard to fit a lot of changes in there!)

An Anthroform with a melee weapon would use the proper Autosoft. (The Skillset Autosoft includes some melee options.)

(Anthroforms might get looked at for some rule-trickery later. A Rigger that steps into one *technically* uses Gunnery for any weapon, even if it's just using  a pistol, an SMG, or whatever. My personal feeling is that a built-in weapon would use Gunnery, while one you picked up and used would use the 'proper' skill, like PIstols, Automatics, etc. Buuut, that one'll go up to the rules team, I'd think.)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (07:14:25/12-20-15)
I'm actually positive that autopilot drones came out stronger than before: Target device, Swarm and the ability to upgrade pilot rating make it very easy to give your drones a high dice pool

One thing I'd like to have clarified: Are those new matrix actions only meant for RCCs or could you execute them with also with a commlink or a deck (without the dice pool bonus for Noise Reduction, obviously)?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (08:03:58/12-20-15)
it depends on if your game was allowing a drone to use Autosofts of higher Rating than its Pilot or not.
Well, neither; Riggers were seen as completely useless in every group or game I was in so far.
And while I think RCCs unable to run a universal clearsight autosoft is a nerf, I definitely welcome the options;
I was thinking about making an AI using Drones as it's "Runner-Avatar", and I just might now.

Should actual questions, instead of genuine mistakes, be posted in the rules section? Like the ones I posted on page 1? They are not technically one for the Errata Document.
... Also, why no native Walker vehicle? We got a skill for that, after all.^^

Edit: At the missile Defense system, it says "In game turns", I think it means "terms".
And how much space does a microdronerack take?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: MijRai on (11:37:20/12-20-15)
A number of Drones use Pilot Walker, UnLimiTeD.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (11:51:44/12-20-15)
Well, but no vehicle, unless you mod it.
If there's Biped Combat drones, wouldn't some rich guy ask for his very own mecha to impress the neighbours with?
Probably along the same level of "lemon", but just saying.  ;)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fweeba on (13:05:59/12-20-15)
Hello, I just wanted to ask how exactly the new speed ratings for drones (Like the difference between 2G, 2W, 2J, etc.) relate to speed in combat meters per turn, for dealing with non vehicular enemies?

My biggest source of confusion comes with figuring out the movement rate of anthropomorphic drones, and I'm not sure if I'm just being an idiot and missing something, or what.

I'd assume that the speed table in core isn't used, since that very quickly can end up with vehicles moving at four times the speed of sound, at speed rating 10 (Something surprisingly easy to hit in some scenarios.) But, even if it did, I'm not sure how the different categories of speed (G, W, etc.) would apply to it.

Thanks for reading, any help to solve this would be appreciated, since it's got me very confused.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (13:28:58/12-20-15)
Originally, the Speed rating and KPH had no connection; Speed was an arbitrary rate for chases while KPH was left unmentioned or generalized. (This was during the writing of  core) ... the KPH bit was addeded near the end of the process, but, it didn't click. (As noted, ground cars breaking the sound barrier = facepalm).

As such, if you wanted, you could use the Drone rates (Ground = 30 KPH, Rotor = 60 KPH, Jet = 600 KPH, Water = 15 KPH) * Speed to get a 'realistc' speed. (Thus, a Speed 4 car could go up to 120 KPH, while a Speed 4 Rotorcraft would be going 240 KPH) ... that's unofficial, but  know the original writer of the core speed was grumbly about the KPH tack-on. :)

Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Beta-Max on (16:53:35/12-20-15)
One thing I'd like to have clarified: Are those new matrix actions only meant for RCCs or could you execute them with also with a commlink or a deck (without the dice pool bonus for Noise Reduction, obviously)?

Jack, it says at the bottom of that Electronic Warfare paragraph...
"All of the following actions are Matrix actions. Yes, you can use them if you’re not a rigger."

I would say that indicates you can use them on any commlink or deck. It should be noted like in my earlier post. I received a response about the typo in "Confuse Pilot" it is supposed to say Data Processing, not Attack.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: HiddenBoss on (17:03:38/12-20-15)
One thing I'd like to have clarified: Are those new matrix actions only meant for RCCs or could you execute them with also with a commlink or a deck (without the dice pool bonus for Noise Reduction, obviously)?

Jack, it says at the bottom of that Electronic Warfare paragraph...
"All of the following actions are Matrix actions. Yes, you can use them if you’re not a rigger."

I would say that indicates you can use them on any commlink or deck. It should be noted like in my earlier post. I received a response about the typo in "Confuse Pilot" it is supposed to say Data Processing, not Attack.

What about suppress noise and target device? that only says RCC in the text.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Ryo on (20:50:14/12-20-15)
From a more game-centric view, if drones are better at everything than Metahumans, why not have them do everything? Why have Deckers when a Hacking Drone beats them in every category? (4th ed ran into this, HARD, when people started summoning Task Spirits who were better at programming than any Metahuman that ever was, or would, be. FastJack being trashed in the Matrix by a Shaman with a stick just stinks, you know?) ... This is why Skillwires can't get as good as Metahuman skill potential, for instance.

This also gives the Rigger some choices ...she can let drones handle things on their own, where their dice pools are limited, or take manual control for when they want to really focus on a task. You can see this with Tater Tot in the chapter fiction ... she lets her Proletariat handle minor repairs while she's otherwise occupied, but takes over for the important stuff. A Rigger with 6 drones that are rolling 6-8 dice won't dominate a gametable like one with the same number dropping 12-15 dice. THAT Rigger doesn't need to bother with a team.

So, there ya go. A little look behind the curtain. :)

I can understand that argument, but Catalyst ran in the exact opposite direction. It is now a case of 'If drones are worse at everything than Metahumans, why have them do anything?'

To get a single drone up to 6 Pilot and 6 skill not only isn't possible at character creation, but it costs 20,000 nuyen and an Availability roll of 24F (which is basically in 'good luck with that' territory), plus 1200 nuyen per skill. That doesn't even count the cost of the drone. And let's not forget that Drones are inherently more fragile than metahumans, having 6 + (Body/2) hit boxes, and the number of drones that have armor even comparable to a metahuman can be counted on one hand. Even in this book, I don't see a single drone that has more armor than an Armored Jacket, other than three Drones that are so large I'm not sure why they're not qualified as vehicles, namely the Ares KN-Y series. The picture makes those things look like tanks, and considering they have no room for passengers, you'd think they'd be incredibly durable. And yet they have the Armor of a Roadmaster combined with the Body of a Motorcycle. A flimsy motorcycle, at that.

It is laughably easy to one shot 90% of the drones that exist. Thanks to the way Damage has been increased across the board in 5th, I've done it with a hold-out pistol. Seriously, the weakest gun in the game does 6P + net hits, which is already enough to one-shot every drone smaller than Medium, and most of the Mediums to boot. Even the Steel Lynx only has 9 boxes of damage, and resists damage with 18 dice. An Ares Alpha with APDS cuts 6 dice out of that, down to 12 dice. Assuming an average roll of 4 hits, The Steel Lynx will only survive a single shot of 12 damage or less. Too bad the Ares Alpha does 11P + net hits damage, so assuming it hits at all, it's doing 12 at a minimum. But lets not forget how bad Drones are at dodging, thanks to their terrible dice pools.

Drones are just all around a terrible investment. They are prohibitively expensive, ridiculously fragile, and inherently inferior to all alternatives. I was expecting Rigger 5 to mitigate that problem, but it only seems to have made it worse. I fully expect the riggers I play with to continue writing off drones entirely, and invest solely in vehicles. The only drones worth buying are the mini and micro flying drones to use for aerial overwatch and recon, something that is out of the way and never gets close to combat. There is no such thing as a combat drone in 5th edition.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: RiggerBob on (07:26:52/12-21-15)
Regarding drone modification, especially armor:

The text says i can increase an attribute by 1 (or 3 for armor) without using a modpoint. And i can decrease an attribute by 1 (3 for armor) to get a mod point.
So 3 points of armor seem to be worth 1 mod point/other attribute...

"Increasing an attribute further than that requires the expenditure of mod points equal to the increase  minus  1."

Should that read "equal the increase minus 1 (3 for armor)" or "equal the increase (divided by 3 for armor)" or both?


Then there's the part about not being able to incease an attribute higher than twice it's base rating. And armor being limited to 3x body before it starts to reduce handling/speed/acceleration.

Does the second rule replace the first one for armor or is it an additional limit (that would nearly never be used^^)?


Let's say i want to equip my trusted roto-drone (bod 4, armor 4) with armor 10.

a) it costs 5 modpoints (increase -1)
b) it costs 3 modpoints (3 points for free, then 3 additional ones)
c) it costs 1 modpoint (3 points for free, 1 modpoint per 3 armor afterwards)
d) it's impossible (because 10 > 2x  base armor)


PS: Do i get a point of handling/speed for the Ares Paladin when reducing it's armor to 15 as it breaks the armor = 3x body rule in it's standard configuration?

PPS: Typo "EJECTION SEATS: Remember that time when there was an annoying or, in the back and you wished you could just push a button and fire him out of the vehicle?"
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Dr0p5 on (09:37:07/12-21-15)
Sadly nothing official for buying used vehicles/drones and stealing them.
Can we expect something in an FAQ or future pdf ?

(I was thinking about 10% off wihle lowering Handling, Speed, Acc or Body by 1 up to 5 times for a total 50% discount)
We all know the situation when we just need a way of transportation you can ditch after the run.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (10:16:12/12-21-15)
If you want 10% off, just get the new 3 karma quality. Combined with Black Market Pipeline this is a real steal...
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (10:21:25/12-21-15)
I took the freedom to compile my previous and a few other questions here (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22843.0), so I need not clog up this thread.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Dal Thrax on (12:50:12/12-21-15)
Originally, the Speed rating and KPH had no connection; Speed was an arbitrary rate for chases while KPH was left unmentioned or generalized. (This was during the writing of  core) ... the KPH bit was addeded near the end of the process, but, it didn't click. (As noted, ground cars breaking the sound barrier = facepalm).

As such, if you wanted, you could use the Drone rates (Ground = 30 KPH, Rotor = 60 KPH, Jet = 600 KPH, Water = 15 KPH) * Speed to get a 'realistc' speed. (Thus, a Speed 4 car could go up to 120 KPH, while a Speed 4 Rotorcraft would be going 240 KPH) ... that's unofficial, but  know the original writer of the core speed was grumbly about the KPH tack-on. :)

How does that work with a spirits movement power?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Csjarrat on (13:30:39/12-21-15)
Badly! Lol
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: falar on (13:46:05/12-21-15)
How does that work with a spirits movement power?
I think I would have to conclude that Movement can only be used on a living creature or things get super out of hand.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: MijRai on (13:56:24/12-21-15)
Yeah, that's a house-rule I'd apply to any game I run (and I'd suggest it to the GM in games I play in, even if I'm playing a Summoner who has spirits with Movement). 
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Slamm-O! on (15:27:31/12-21-15)
Rigged Bike:

     Control Rig is plugged into the Bike.  I'm driving.  Do I roll Pilot Ground Vehicle + Reaction ?  Or Pilot Ground Vehicle + Logic ?


What rolls are made while using Gunnery jumped into a drone ? Gunnery + Logic ? Or + Agility ?

Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: falar on (15:41:18/12-21-15)
Control Rig is plugged into the Bike.  I'm driving.  Do I roll Pilot Ground Vehicle + Reaction ?  Or Pilot Ground Vehicle + Logic ?
SECONDING THIS QUESTION, but adding the option of Pilot Ground Vehicle + Intuition.

What rolls are made while using Gunnery jumped into a drone ? Gunnery + Logic ? Or + Agility ?
Gunnery + Logic.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Kincaid on (15:48:44/12-21-15)
A super-amazing guy asked that same question a few years back.  See #2.

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=11514.msg238706#msg238706
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (16:02:15/12-21-15)
Still kinda weird that ware that enhances bodily reaction by augmenting your spine would benefit you then, under that ruling.
In any case, if I directly pilot a drone with cyberarms with integrated weapons, do the arms stats matter at all?
... ah damnit, I wanted to keep those questions to a rules thread. Well, now that someone has read it here already I'll just duplicate it.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Kincaid on (16:08:52/12-21-15)
I'll leave that one for Wak.  It's too late in the afternoon for me to contemplate indirect fire with a low-Agi cyberarm mounted on a drone.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: falar on (16:29:54/12-21-15)
In any case, if I directly pilot a drone with cyberarms with integrated weapons, do the arms stats matter at all?
Yeah, that also embeds the question of whether you can integrate weapons into drone arms.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (16:51:59/12-21-15)
Originally, the Speed rating and KPH had no connection; Speed was an arbitrary rate for chases while KPH was left unmentioned or generalized. (This was during the writing of  core) ... the KPH bit was addeded near the end of the process, but, it didn't click. (As noted, ground cars breaking the sound barrier = facepalm).

As such, if you wanted, you could use the Drone rates (Ground = 30 KPH, Rotor = 60 KPH, Jet = 600 KPH, Water = 15 KPH) * Speed to get a 'realistc' speed. (Thus, a Speed 4 car could go up to 120 KPH, while a Speed 4 Rotorcraft would be going 240 KPH) ... that's unofficial, but  know the original writer of the core speed was grumbly about the KPH tack-on. :)

I don't have the book yet but I am curious about how these new movement rate work for vehicle chases. would a speed 4 roto drone now be faster then a speed 6 motorcycle?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Kincaid on (16:57:27/12-21-15)
Yeah, a Speed 4 roto drone would outrun a Speed 6 ground vehicle.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (17:17:17/12-21-15)
Yeah, a Speed 4 roto drone would outrun a Speed 6 ground vehicle.

OK , great currently the speed rules make no sense since as written a Banshee T-bird (speed 8) is only slightly faster the a eurocar westwind (speed 7).   
      I look forward to getting the book so I can see how this will affect vehicle chase combat..I assume some sort of bonuses and/or penalties will be applied.
 
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (18:48:45/12-21-15)
Just a question for understanding:
Will drone armour upgrades cost in chunks of 3, or every point?
And can you upgrade a single attribute without modpoint expenditure, or every one, as long as it's only 1 each?  (I think this is something the rules thread can't necessarily answer without doubt)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (20:05:01/12-21-15)
Armor'll be addressed a bit later tonight (I'm @lunc and there're a few questions about them due to the 3:1 ratio), BUT, the otehr one's easy.

Yes, you can add +1 to Speed, Handling, Acceleration, Sensors, Pilot, and +3 Armor to a drone without spending *any* mod points.

Pretty snazzy, hmmm?

This is, essentially, buying a higher-caliber level of drone in a sense, not unlike an Alpha bit of Cyberware,

Adding *more* than +1 to a drone, however, will start chomping those mod points.

I apologize, in advance, for the math-haters out there who're looking at squared and cubed multipliers for your drones. I might make you a handy chart to take the work out of it. I know some people just *hate* that stuff.

ALSO! IMPORTANT UPDATE!

I'm going to be compiling a list of errata, questions, and so on to kick upstairs TONIGHT at midnight, central (That's 5 hours from now) ... if we're lucky, we can get updates to the print run, and get fixes into teh PDF, but Xmas is *right* *there*, so there's some hustle. ANything you got, POST IT HERE. I'll be gathering and pushing as soon as I get home.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: asucrews on (22:40:29/12-21-15)
pg155 "MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone: Three extra Weapon Modification Slots"

Does this mean 3 extra Mod points for Weapons mounts i.e. one standard mount or what?

Also how does the table on pg 155 apply to the optional drone mod rules on pg122? Does a Roto-drone have 3 more mod points?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Duellist_D on (22:43:20/12-21-15)
You mentioned it yourself somewhere else  Wakshani , but just to have it on the radar in this thread:

If i jump into an Anthro-Drone with Drone Arms and articulated Hands (ie the Secretary one), can i use my own [Weaponskill] (NOT Autosoft) + [Agility of the Arm] to fire a Gun that i/the Drone grabbed from the ground?

Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: asucrews on (23:16:57/12-21-15)
The ares kn - y1 seems to missing stat or out of order.

ARES KN—Y1 (PHOBOS) (HUGE DRONE)
HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARM PILOT SENS AVAIL COST
2G        1              6(0)       18        5       3          16F      250,000¥ 40,000¥

Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: asucrews on (23:52:26/12-21-15)
Run Faster pg 250 there is a listing a hardware mode for smartlink but is Rigger 5 it only talks smartsoft.  Are we to treat run faster smartlink as a smartsoft or is there a smartlink hardware mod for riggers that i am not a where of?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Malevolence on (00:31:12/12-22-15)
I probably missed it, but in the updated drone stat blocks, if the body is listed in X format rather than X(Y), does that mean it has 0 spare mod points, or X spare mod points? I'm guessing X since I see some listed as X(0), but rarely X(X).
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (00:46:24/12-22-15)
All of them *did* have an X(Y) format, but drones that were copied from older books instead of my alpha file don't have that, or the movement type. Be trying to get that fixed ASAP.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: PiXeL01 on (01:21:59/12-22-15)
Many vehicles list equipment in the fluff but not in their stat box; gyro for motorbike and Weapon Mounts for Aguilar combat helicopters.
Also are the mounts for the Riverine wrong? Fluff describes a case where the boat often has rockets on the back mounts and anti-material (here I assume that means machine guns or cannons) yet all listed mounts are standard.

I'm pretty sure I have seen more cases where the mounts do not add up to the fluff
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (03:19:02/12-22-15)
I'm going to be compiling a list of errata, questions, and so on to kick upstairs TONIGHT at midnight, central (That's 5 hours from now) ... if we're lucky, we can get updates to the print run, and get fixes into teh PDF, but Xmas is *right* *there*, so there's some hustle. ANything you got, POST IT HERE. I'll be gathering and pushing as soon as I get home.
Would that maybe include questions in the rules section? I know it's late now, just asking.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: prionic6 on (03:58:46/12-22-15)
Are the names of the SK vehicles like "Teufelkatze" meant to sound wacky in German? Because we would say Teufelskatze (with an extra "s"). I also don't understand where the Umlaut in "Stürmwagon" comes from, because the word you're leaning on is "Sturmwagen". Although I have to admit that Stürmwagen sounds like it could be german police lingo.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (04:34:47/12-22-15)
I thought it was meant to be more "metal": Watch out for that brütal Stürmwägön!  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (04:55:41/12-22-15)
You mean turkish?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Darzil on (04:58:29/12-22-15)
I'm going to be compiling a list of errata, questions, and so on to kick upstairs TONIGHT at midnight, central (That's 5 hours from now) ... if we're lucky, we can get updates to the print run, and get fixes into teh PDF, but Xmas is *right* *there*, so there's some hustle. ANything you got, POST IT HERE. I'll be gathering and pushing as soon as I get home.
Whether or not this manages to happen, and I can't add anything as I haven't got it yet (and time has passed), I just want to say thank you soooo much for trying to get this done.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: firebug on (07:42:23/12-22-15)
On Page 124, it lists examples of weapon mounts.

The "mini" size lists "single shot grenade".  What is that?  Is there a grenade launcher to buy, or is it as if the drone is throwing a single normal grenade?  Or is it a minigrenade?  What's the range on it?  Does it fire it, or just drop it?  What do I have to pay for to have my drone capable of using a single grenade?  What skill would it us, so I know what skillsoft to buy?  If it's a launcher, does it have its own stats, and can I make it a smartgun?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: RiggerBob on (11:08:55/12-22-15)
Another question:

I know the Ares Sentinel rail-mounted drone from 2nd to 4th edition (last printed in This Old Drone) and there's a rather long chapter in the Mack Hellhound's description about a ring setup for the rig and trailer using Sentinels as defensive measures. But there are no stats for Ares Sentinel drones but an entry for an Ares Sentry V rail-drone talking about 3 decades of experience. Is that name a typo? A namechange for marketing reasons that wasn't mentioned? Or are there any Sentinel stats elsewhere that weren't included in this book's compiled tables?


Also there's an entry named Ferret RPD-1X wheeled perimeter drone with a stat box  for a Ferret RPD-5X.

And: The Renraku Dove is listed with availability 4 (statbox and table). As it's one of the 3 drones exclusively licensed to GOD i would expect a 4F at least.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Finstersang on (19:06:03/12-22-15)
On Page 124, it lists examples of weapon mounts.

The "mini" size lists "single shot grenade".  What is that?  Is there a grenade launcher to buy, or is it as if the drone is throwing a single normal grenade?  Or is it a minigrenade?  What's the range on it?  Does it fire it, or just drop it?  What do I have to pay for to have my drone capable of using a single grenade?  What skill would it us, so I know what skillsoft to buy?  If it's a launcher, does it have its own stats, and can I make it a smartgun?

Reasonably, since even an MCT Fly-Spy can have this mount, I´d say the mount is the Grenade, holding the Payload. But still, some clarification would be nice.
Even more important regarding the new Drone mounts: You forgot the Price Tags!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (09:32:05/12-23-15)
I'm honestly not surprised that Rigger 5.0 introduces yet another repair cost and mechanic...

Core had no cost for repairing boxes of damage.
Run & Gun got everyone up in arms when it introduces a 10% cost per box, which was later errata'd to 2% per box.
Rigger 5.0 has repairing vehicles and drones back up to 5% per box of damage.

I'll stick with the 2% personally to not discourage riggers too much, but it'd be real nice if these things were consistent across the sourcebooks. Also, it doesn't seem to be possible to scavenge parts from an already broken drone or vehicle, which just seems like a kick in the teeth. Are we to assume that a drone or vehicle that has it's condition monitor filled is an unsalvageable piece of drek with absolutely zero parts worth scrounging? If that's the case, I'll be houseruling it for sure.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (13:54:58/12-23-15)
Yeah, there should be a second condition monitor. If the first is filled up the vehicle/drone is no longer operational. If the second one is full, the vehicle is completely slag.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: firebug on (14:09:53/12-23-15)
Yeah, there should be a second condition monitor. If the first is filled up the vehicle/drone is no longer operational. If the second one is full, the vehicle is completely slag.

I'd say less "a second monitor" and just go with Overflow Boxes.  Exactly the same as for metahumans, but vehicles/drones don't bleed, so it'd only get worse from environmental stuff (fire, acid rain, more debris) or further attacks.  Buuuuut that would mean things have much more parts available as well, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (14:49:00/12-23-15)
I don't think that this will show correctly, as I don't know how to format forumcode to show tabs like a document. Hrm. Let's try this button here...

MICRO DRONE      HANDL   SPEED   ACCEL   BODY   ARMOR   PILOT   SEN   AVAIL   COST
Shiawase Kanmushi   4   0G   0   0   0   2   3   8   1000$
S-B Microskimmer      3   1R   1   0   0   2   2   6   1000$

MINI DRONE      HANDL   SPEED   ACCEL   BODY   ARMOR   PILOT   SEN   AVAIL   COST
Horizon Flying Eye      4   1R   1   1(1)   0   2   3   8   2000$
MCT Fly-Spy      4   1R   1   1(1)   0   2   3   8   2000$
Aztechnology Crawler   3   1G   1   1(1)   0   3   2   4   2000$
Renraku Scuttler      4   1G   1   1(0)   0   2   2   8   8000$

SMALL DRONE      HANDL   SPEED   ACCEL   BODY   ARMOR   PILOT   SEN   AVAIL   COST
Lockheed Optic-X      4   4R   2   2(1)   3   3   3   10   21,000$
Ares Mercury      4/-   1G   1   2(1)   0   2   2   2   1000$
Ares Sentry V      4/-   1G   1   2(0)   6   3   2   4R   4000$

MEDIUM DRONE   HANDL   SPEED   ACCEL   BODY   ARMOR   PILOT   SEN   AVAIL   COST
F-B Bumblebee      4   0R   0   3(0)   12   3   3   12F   25,000$


LARGE DRONE      HANDL   SPEED   ACCEL   BODY   ARMOR   PILOT   SEN   AVAIL   COST
Ares Duelst      4   1G   1   4(0)   9   3   2   8R   8000$
GM-Nissan Doberman    3   2G   1   4(4)   9   3   3   4R   8000$
MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone   4   2R   1   4(4)   6   3   3   6   8000$
Aeroquip Dustoff      4   4R   2   4(1)   6   4   3   10R   40,000$
Caduceus 7      4   2G   1   5(2)   3   2   1   12R   16,500$,


If this worked, you should see the stats for the core book drones, and the ones from (most!) other sourcebooks, adjusted a bit to fit into Rigger 5, including a movement type and a Body (Boyd) score. I'm betting that you'll have to shift some lines due to tab breaks at the least, and probably it's gonna be muddled all to Hell and back. Grf. (Note to self: Learn HTML programming at some future point in time!)

This is taken from my initial submission but not yet verified from upstairs. As noted, it may well have not been published for a reason, but, theer were a lot of questions about it (Tho no one mentioned the Mercury missing under the Sentry V entry, but I went ahead and put it in here as well.) So, this still has a bit of an 'unofficial' flag on it until I'm told otherwise. 
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (16:30:58/12-23-15)
Quote from: Wakshaani
MEDIUM DRONE F-B Bumblebee   HANDL: 4. SPEED: 0R.  ACCEL: 0.  BODY: 3(0).  ARMOR: 12.  PILOT: 3.  SEN: 3.  AVAIL: 12F.  COST:  25,000¥.

OK so here's the original stat line... HANDL:3. SPEED: 2. ACCEL: 1. BODY: 4. ARMOR: 14. SEN: 3. PILOT: 3 AVAIL: 12F. COST: 24,000¥.

So it now costs more and been nerfed in almost every single category... making one of the best drones in the game a bit of a junker now.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Finstersang on (18:22:03/12-23-15)
Quote from: Wakshaani
MEDIUM DRONE F-B Bumblebee   HANDL: 4. SPEED: 0R.  ACCEL: 0.  BODY: 3(0).  ARMOR: 12.  PILOT: 3.  SEN: 3.  AVAIL: 12F.  COST:  25,000¥.

OK so here's the original stat line... HANDL:3. SPEED: 2. ACCEL: 1. BODY: 4. ARMOR: 14. SEN: 3. PILOT: 3 AVAIL: 12F. COST: 24,000¥.

So it now costs more and been nerfed in almost every single category... making one of the best drones in the game a bit of a junker now.

Well it´s still quite decent, but given the fact that for every treat the Drone Riggers got 1-2 slaps in Rigger 5, it stinks. Not to mention the massive inconsistencies and the fact that, once again, proper proofreading is outsourced to the first PDF buyers (kinda like it is with many video games nowadays). With Rigger 5, I´m honestly afraid what will happen to Technomancers in the Resonance Supplement  :-\
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (18:23:32/12-23-15)
Yeah, how did the Bumblebee get 0R as speed and 0 Acceleration? That just seems very odd.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (18:29:37/12-23-15)
Quote from: Wakshaani
MEDIUM DRONE F-B Bumblebee   HANDL: 4. SPEED: 0R.  ACCEL: 0.  BODY: 3(0).  ARMOR: 12.  PILOT: 3.  SEN: 3.  AVAIL: 12F.  COST:  25,000¥.

OK so here's the original stat line... HANDL:3. SPEED: 2. ACCEL: 1. BODY: 4. ARMOR: 14. SEN: 3. PILOT: 3 AVAIL: 12F. COST: 24,000¥.

So it now costs more and been nerfed in almost every single category... making one of the best drones in the game a bit of a junker now.

Well it´s still quite decent, but given the fact that for every treat the Drone Riggers got 1-2 slaps in Rigger 5, it stinks. Not to mention the massive inconsistencies and the fact that, once again, proper proofreading is outsourced to the first PDF buyers (kinda like it is with many video games nowadays). With Rigger 5, I´m honestly afraid what will happen to Technomancers in the Resonance Supplement  :-\

Not really... you need all those 'free' +1 mods just to make in maneuverable at all, reduced body means nothing further can be done to it without ripping out the M202 (one of the best reasons to buy this drone)... hell even the armor has been reduced, so it has less armor and no movement... honestly seems like someone decided the Bumblebee was too popular so decided to nerf-shot it.

If this is actually what's going to happen... it's gone from my go-to heavy combat drone to a pile of crap I'm never going to buy.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Finstersang on (19:37:43/12-23-15)
Quote from: Wakshaani
MEDIUM DRONE F-B Bumblebee   HANDL: 4. SPEED: 0R.  ACCEL: 0.  BODY: 3(0).  ARMOR: 12.  PILOT: 3.  SEN: 3.  AVAIL: 12F.  COST:  25,000¥.

OK so here's the original stat line... HANDL:3. SPEED: 2. ACCEL: 1. BODY: 4. ARMOR: 14. SEN: 3. PILOT: 3 AVAIL: 12F. COST: 24,000¥.

So it now costs more and been nerfed in almost every single category... making one of the best drones in the game a bit of a junker now.

Well it´s still quite decent, but given the fact that for every treat the Drone Riggers got 1-2 slaps in Rigger 5, it stinks. Not to mention the massive inconsistencies and the fact that, once again, proper proofreading is outsourced to the first PDF buyers (kinda like it is with many video games nowadays). With Rigger 5, I´m honestly afraid what will happen to Technomancers in the Resonance Supplement  :-\

Not really... you need all those 'free' +1 mods just to make in maneuverable at all, reduced body means nothing further can be done to it without ripping out the M202 (one of the best reasons to buy this drone)... hell even the armor has been reduced, so it has less armor and no movement... honestly seems like someone decided the Bumblebee was too popular so decided to nerf-shot it.

If this is actually what's going to happen... it's gone from my go-to heavy combat drone to a pile of crap I'm never going to buy.

Missed the Zeroes on Speed and Acceleration. What is this supposed to be, a hover-turret? I always thought that this a clumsy one, but that´s going a little far ???
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (20:00:09/12-23-15)
Yeah, how did the Bumblebee get 0R as speed and 0 Acceleration? That just seems very odd.

Talked with the original creator and noted that I needed to bring it down into the general power curve. We sat and chatted a bit about what it was supposed to be, and he wanted it a heavily-armed, and well-armored, flyer but that it was a slow and clumsy flyer, thusthe name "Bumblebee" because, well, it flies pretty badly.

From there, I knew a typical rotor-drone would be Handling 4 ("planes" go faster but don't move as nimbly), and I wanted to keep that for thematic reasons, but dropping the speed down to essentially metahuman speed would be fine. Armor got a couple points filed off to keep it *just* inside the curve, while it got to retain the weapon setup it already had, which consumed all of the mod points it would otherwise have had.

So, overall, it gets a tad more vulnerable and looses pursuit, but remains a heavil-armed flying machine.

There's a give and take to make something balanced. As it was before this, it was tougher, better armed, cheaper, and could fly, than the Steel Lynx, which was the closest competitor. That was just too good.

You'll see a trade-off in other designs, by the by. The Matlida's tough, but slow. The Cheetah's fast, but nearly unarmed. And so on and so forth. The generalists aren't as good at any ONE thing as a specialist, but are better in a broad sense.

Everything has a place. :)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (20:23:03/12-23-15)
I kinda get that.. but stripping it completely of it's speed, shaving its armor then making it impossible to do all but the most minor of upgrades... it's a tough pill to swallow, THEN having it cost more after getting nerfed so badly just seems like a slap in the face.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on (20:50:26/12-23-15)
I have to agree with ScytheKnight. Not only did it get nurfed in nearly every stat, but also made more expensive. I call shinanagins!  Raise both speed, acceleration, and body by one and drop the cost back in line with what it was if you want to nurf it without making it worthless.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (20:52:22/12-23-15)
So wouldn't it have been possible to make it far more expensive to create something that's at least on par with an upgraded rotodrone?
Though the rotodrone did get nerfed by suddenly being a size larger now. Alternatively, it could of course be slightly cheaper as a budget package, no strong feelings from me either way.

Also questions:

Quote
  • Can we assume that anthropomorphic drones have the equivalent of cyberlimbs with regular upgrade capacity, or do they have sort of primitive arms?
    Aka, can we put upgrades in them, specifically cyberware. Related, anthroforms have more hitboxes than other drones.
    If the above is a positive, how about the Duelist? Does it count as having arms with no hands? Or will it have only 6+ boxes?
  • Can drones use Riotshields fpr their own good? Provided they have arms.

May I also suggest a ruling along the lines of "Adding weapons to a drone cyberarm will cost 1 modpoint", or some similar clarification?

Regards
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: firebug on (20:57:44/12-23-15)
I kinda get that.. but stripping it completely of it's speed, shaving its armor then making it impossible to do all but the most minor of upgrades... it's a tough pill to swallow, THEN having it cost more after getting nerfed so badly just seems like a slap in the face.

I wouldn't quite say it's armor is shaved.  It lost 2 points, but you can improve it by 3 without using any mod slots.

Anyways, I have another Errata Question.
The rules for advanced chase combat don't quite make it clear what the effects of going at a different speed than the others in chase combat are.  If I'm going 3 and they're going 2, the only effects I see are that they have an easier time doing several actions...  Do they lose distance?  Is simply going faster than your pursuers a way to win the chase?  If I'm in a suped up Suzuki Mirage being chased by some guys in Ford Americars, and push it to it's modded speed of 7 while they're stuck at 3, what happens?

And one minor one--  The example vehicle scenes 2 and 3 mention character having control rigs installed, but they're either not accounted for in the examples, or the characters aren't using them, in which case mentioning them is misleading.  In Scene 2, Thrasher could have been jumped-in, but it's unclear.  In Scene 3, Daft is pretty clearly not jumped in.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: firebug on (21:22:30/12-23-15)
Oh, Scene 2 brings up another question...  The Fly-Spy drones do 3 extra damage because of their Speed of 3 (presumably as related to the Melee Attack chase action, where you add your Speed to the damage).  Now...  Do drones just always add their Speed, regardless of how they're moving, or were these drones going ~180 KPH when they swarmed?  The same goes for Speed apparently subtracting from the attacker's pool?  Or is this a case of "our examples are always wrong"?

I'm also still unclear about movement rates of drones and vehicles on standard-scale combat.  Especially with the new classifications on Speed for Ground and Rotor, I somehow don't think the Kanmushi was ever intended to be able to run at 20m a turn.  And can the Cheetah really go 160m each turn "walking"?  Is it a zero to max thing, too, or do they have to deal with Acceleration and take the Change Speed Simple Action like vehicles?  Do vehicles still have "running" rates, whatever the hell that's supposed to be...?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (22:28:31/12-23-15)
Even post 'free' upgrades we're looking at HANDL: 5. SPEED: 1R.  ACCEL: 1.  BODY: 3(0).  ARMOR: 15.  PILOT: 4.  SEN: 4

Handling upgrade 3,000 + Speed Upgrade 1,200 + Acceleration Upgrade 600 + Armor Upgrade 9,000 + Sensor Upgrade 4,000 + Pilot Rating 4 3,200

This totals up to a cost of 21,00 + 25,000 for the base drone for a total cost of 46,000 not counting autosofts.

And what does this get you? Handling 2 points higher than the old standard, but with it's truncated speed it's not worth that much... a damage soak roll the same as the old standard (having dropped 2 points of armor and 1 point of body), enhanced sensors and piloting. At a cost that is fragging close to DOUBLE the original cost of the drone.

I can understand why it might be nerfed for balance reasons... but if you're going to rip something's spine out then lower it's cost to suit, not increase it!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Slamm-O! on (01:27:01/12-24-15)
Are Technomancer Droneomancers viable with the nerf to the Autosoft rating ? 
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (06:46:07/12-24-15)
And what does this get you? Handling 2 points higher than the old standard, but with it's truncated speed it's not worth that much...
We need to factor in the different movement modes that are now being differentiated, though; Take a look at the rotodrone.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Dr0p5 on (06:57:42/12-24-15)
Ok, some questions about drone/vehicle upgrades.

What does Fragile (1) mean ? (Ares Cheeta)
What is the weight limit and cost for single use bomb racks ? (Federated-Boeing Kull)

What are the stats for FlashTech and Teufelkatze flamer ? (BMW Teufelkatze)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: jim1701 on (09:14:37/12-24-15)
Did heavy weapon mounts change in the Rigger book?  Because with the Bumblebee's body reduced to three it no longer qualifies for the heavy weapon mount it was supposed to be carrying. 
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (09:18:00/12-24-15)
Just like the Rotodrone it probably gets extra weapon slots.
The table above is the full package, and it still has that mount with 0 slots left.
The one sad thing is you can't upgrade it's amour to what it used to be without making it essentially immobile.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (10:25:54/12-24-15)
Ok, some questions about drone/vehicle upgrades.

What does Fragile (1) mean ? (Ares Cheeta)

Fragile lowers the Body of teh Drone by 1, by ups the Mod Points by 2, a net gain of +1 Mod Point. (Thus a Body 3(3) Medium drone with Fragile becomes a Body 2(4) drone, but remains the same Medium size.)

Quote
What is the weight limit and cost for single use bomb racks ? (Federated-Boeing Kull)

Unlisted. It's "special equipment", unique to it at this time. There's a chance that you'll see bomb racks, bombs, and so forth in the not-so-distant future. For now, assume that the cargo pods are about a half-meter per side cube, but there would be other shapes available. (The drone's designed to fly low, stay mostly off radar due to small size, low speed, and low alititude, drop supply crates, then return to base.) It's a pretty poor combatant. :)

Quote
What are the stats for FlashTech and Teufelkatze flamer ? (BMW Teufelkatze)

That, I dunno. Again, something that we'll need to stat up in the not-too-distant future! (Added it to the FAQ list, however.)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Dr0p5 on (17:36:30/12-24-15)
Thanks for the answers so far, but i was not thinking about weapon usage for the bomb racks (this time  ;D ) but practical usage for resuply  in the field.
Actually I was able to get one of these for our campain in the sahara and need to know how much of equipment and other resuply (mainly water/food and ammo) i can put in one of these to keep the team running in the dessert while being chased by some self claimed warlord when our plans go wrong. (which normaly happens)


Quote
What are the stats for FlashTech and Teufelkatze flamer ? (BMW Teufelkatze)

That, I dunno. Again, something that we'll need to stat up in the not-too-distant future! (Added it to the FAQ list, however.)
Does that also count for additional RCC´s and and mod rules for them ?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Finstersang on (20:16:21/12-24-15)
I'm also still unclear about movement rates of drones and vehicles on standard-scale combat.  Especially with the new classifications on Speed for Ground and Rotor, I somehow don't think the Kanmushi was ever intended to be able to run at 20m a turn.  And can the Cheetah really go 160m each turn "walking"?  Is it a zero to max thing, too, or do they have to deal with Acceleration and take the Change Speed Simple Action like vehicles?  Do vehicles still have "running" rates, whatever the hell that's supposed to be...?

Seconded. Seriously, are we still bound to these ridiculous exponentially rising Tactical Movement Speeds from the Core Rulebook? If so: Then what is the Movement Rate of the new nerfed-into-oblivion Bumblebee with its Speed of 0?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Duck N. Cover on (02:38:09/12-25-15)
ALSO! IMPORTANT UPDATE!

I'm going to be compiling a list of errata, questions, and so on to kick upstairs TONIGHT at midnight, central (That's 5 hours from now) ... if we're lucky, we can get updates to the print run, and get fixes into teh PDF, but Xmas is *right* *there*, so there's some hustle. ANything you got, POST IT HERE. I'll be gathering and pushing as soon as I get home.

(three days late)...Drat.

I noticed the Mitsuhama Akiyama (the assassination doll) from Hard Targets didn't make it into the Master list of vehicles/drones in the end of the book.
...Matter of fact, I think all the drones from HT were missed (Ammo Drone, Reloading Drone, Sparring Drone, pages 189-190).

Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (08:07:41/12-25-15)
Does that also count for additional RCC´s and and mod rules for them ?

The demand for more RCC options has verymuch been noticed.
<.<
>.>

I can't say more than that at this time! (dun dun dunnnnnnnn...)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (08:14:38/12-25-15)
Seconded. Seriously, are we still bound to these ridiculous exponentially rising Tactical Movement Speeds from the Core Rulebook? If so: Then what is the Movement Rate of the new nerfed-into-oblivion Bumblebee with its Speed of 0?

The new movement list (Speed * X KPH) is *officially* just for drones, but using it on other vehicles sure would solve a lot of issues, wouldn't it?

The Bumblebee, with a movement rate of 0R, would be moving at (0.5 * 60 kph) = 30 KPH, or about 19 MPH. This is about on par with the running speed of the average human, and plenty for an on-site drone. It's just not something that you'll fly across the city to deal with things. :)

And, yes, the Cheetah really is intended to run at 180 KPH (That's about 112 MPH!) ... I had it slower at first, but at Movement 4 it wasn't much faster than the real deal, and, honestly, the idea that it could keep pace with most cars was kinda cool, so I went with it. :)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (08:16:54/12-25-15)
I noticed the Mitsuhama Akiyama (the assassination doll) from Hard Targets didn't make it into the Master list of vehicles/drones in the end of the book.
...Matter of fact, I think all the drones from HT were missed (Ammo Drone, Reloading Drone, Sparring Drone, pages 189-190).

Hard Targets isn't a book I worked on, so I didn't know about 'em until it was published. I couldnlt add things in that I didn't know about! They seem pretty solid, but the reloading drone steps on my intending to not have an Armorer Skillsoft. Not *entirely* since it doesn't actually build things, but.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (08:29:17/12-25-15)
You sure put in a lot of effort, respect for that.

One tidbit that's been irrationally irking me:
In the Drone section, downgrades, you mention ripping seats out of a car as a similar case of downgrading, but we don't actually have that option.
If I take a large Van, and put in 4 drone racks, a mechanics shop, first aid station and a mechanical arm, I still have full seating? Or is that assumed to be reduced somehow?
Also, if a vehicle is said to have a drone rack, what size is that? Medium? ( I think this may have been asked somewhere already).
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (08:38:44/12-25-15)
Hard Targets isn't a book I worked on, so I didn't know about 'em until it was published. I couldnlt add things in that I didn't know about! They seem pretty solid, but the reloading drone steps on my intending to not have an Armorer Skillsoft. Not *entirely* since it doesn't actually build things, but.

Ah, that solves another question - if armorer is included in the mechanics catch all for autosofts.
May I ask why you don't want that? It seems rather to be one of the jobs a drone could excel if provided with the right plans.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (09:03:56/12-25-15)
Wait, Wakshaani, so you're ok with a drone helping to build and repair structures (industrial mechanic), cars and motorcycles (automotive mechanic), and even aircraft and spacecraft (aeronautic and aerospace mechanic, respectively), but guns are too much? How does that make any sense?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Dr0p5 on (09:07:48/12-25-15)
And, yes, the Cheetah really is intended to run at 180 KPH (That's about 112 MPH!) ... I had it slower at first, but at Movement 4 it wasn't much faster than the real deal, and, honestly, the idea that it could keep pace with most cars was kinda cool, so I went with it. :)
Sounds Awesome.
Btw. Am I the only one thinking about a Rigger with 4-6 Cheetah´s in shiny chrome chasing after a fleeing car ? (forgett about chamelon coating, shining chrome in the moonlight with red LED´s in the eye sockets and silenced pawns)
or combining them with the anti theft system to guard the Rigger´s car. Definitly want to see the robbers face when 1-2 cheetahs emerge out of the trunk of the car they just trie to steal  ;D
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Novocrane on (09:10:59/12-25-15)
Am I the only one thinking about a Rigger with 4-6 Cheetah´s in shiny chrome chasing after a fleeing car ? (forgett about chamelon coating, shining chrome in the moonlight with red LED´s in the eye sockets and silenced pawns)
or combining them with the anti theft system to guard the Rigger´s car.
I want one with gecko tips for my gnome to ride.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (09:15:11/12-25-15)
I prefer the P5 for vehicle pursuit personally. None of that pesky chase combat malarkey once it attaches to the car, just follow the signal.

You can't stop the signal, Mal :)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (14:17:00/12-25-15)
Hard Targets isn't a book I worked on, so I didn't know about 'em until it was published. I couldnlt add things in that I didn't know about! They seem pretty solid, but the reloading drone steps on my intending to not have an Armorer Skillsoft. Not *entirely* since it doesn't actually build things, but.

Ah, that solves another question - if armorer is included in the mechanics catch all for autosofts.
May I ask why you don't want that? It seems rather to be one of the jobs a drone could excel if provided with the right plans.

Wait, Wakshaani, so you're ok with a drone helping to build and repair structures (industrial mechanic), cars and motorcycles (automotive mechanic), and even aircraft and spacecraft (aeronautic and aerospace mechanic, respectively), but guns are too much? How does that make any sense?

A couple of reasons. Armorer work can be *fast*.. switching out clips (magaziiiiiiiines), building bullets (Well, not that we have 'make your own ammo' rules, but, try to future-proof!), or building crude weapons (bats w/nails, etc) vs replacing a transmission or assembling a ship over the corse of a few weeks with a cadre of other drones ... it suddenly creates a financial option for 'runners outside of, well, 'running. See also "Why don't I just mug deckers for a living?" and the same. Trying to get around that was one thing.

Another was related to construction and trust. INdustrial-scale robots rae normal ... they make cars all the time so letting a drone work on your car feels normal. Despite the fact that guns are assembly-line things, people still have a gut feeling of craftsmanship to them and they, like armor, are things that people who use them upkeep, personally, *all* the *time*, without really trusting others. Much as a parachutist always packs his own gear, so to do gun bunnies always clean and prep their own guns and test their own armor... trusting some drone with your gun being clean and not jamming/misfiring or to have your ballistic-ceramic plates loaded in your vest is a life-death call and one that people just don't *trust* a 'bot to handle.

Which brings up the last one ... in teh fluff, you'll note that people have a bit of a trust gap in terms of drones. Crash 2.0 and the Technomancer Scares made people wary of a few things, and giving drones guns, or the ability to make/upgrade them, is just something people are *very* wiggy about. You might notice the lack of any programming Autosofts? Same thing. Letting the machines program themselves, and create programs, can lead to Very Bad Places.

So, the corps keep the machines away from creating guns or programming, despite the efficiency advantage that it'd offer.

So, in the end, it's a cultural thing, with a touch of gamey-ness behind it. There's no reason it *shouldn't* be something that they could do, and it's hardly game-breaking, but, sometimes you want to go a different direction. This was one of those times. While you can simply create it for your home game (The Skillset Autosoft is a dead-simple mechanic to copy), it's a bit more fun to add a bit of prejudice to the game (Because, you know, we don't have enough racism) ... have the armorer at a Lone Star precinct house snort about "Trusting some damn bot" to keep a bulletproof vest up to par, or make sure that most security drones are non-lethal sporting types, with people getting freaked out if a drone with a *real* gun walks in, even if it's just some hold-out pistol instead of a taser.

(And yes, there are obvious logic hoels in there. Drones dropping industrial-level weights onto heads, slipping poison into food, etc, but, the gross view is always one that gets seen before the subtle. Heck, even the drones section talks about people forgetting that cars are, really, drones themselves and *vastly* more dangerous!)

Hopefully, this makes sense. :)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (14:26:11/12-25-15)
Sounds Awesome.
Btw. Am I the only one thinking about a Rigger with 4-6 Cheetah´s in shiny chrome chasing after a fleeing car ? (forgett about chamelon coating, shining chrome in the moonlight with red LED´s in the eye sockets and silenced pawns)
or combining them with the anti theft system to guard the Rigger´s car. Definitly want to see the robbers face when 1-2 cheetahs emerge out of the trunk of the car they just trie to steal  ;D

It wasn't slated for art (sadly), but a pic I'd had in mind when originally designing it was something like this:

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/VOjaccwJkNNle/200_s.gif)

Originally, I'd been doing reserach on assorted clockwork animals for my home game of Malifaux: Through the Breach, and I'd been needing to get my steampunk up with some Russian clockwork builds. I found a bunch of *fantastic* critters (My design was tapping into the Fabrege' design ethhos) and one of them was a running dog, which lit a design-fire in my head that became the Cheetah. (Wonder if I have th... ah HAH! Here we go.)

(http://img11.deviantart.net/be70/i/2011/237/3/d/clockwork_hound_by_chrismcfann-d47s5i1.jpg)

I wanted to expand that, and when I was culling designs (I had over a hundred at one point! lordy!),most of the animal ones went early.  There were robo-cats and robo-dogs, a goose, a bear ... Pushed all those over for Malifaux and just stuck with a couple for Shadowrun.

So, hey, a peek inside my process. :D
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (14:30:56/12-25-15)
I prefer the P5 for vehicle pursuit personally. None of that pesky chase combat malarkey once it attaches to the car, just follow the signal.

You can't stop the signal, Mal :)

A thing I wante dto get in but didn't was a rule about sticking explosives in stuff for suicide bombing attempts. The P5 mentions this, but the rules aren't there. (A Pigeon packed with the stuff was what blew up half of Arthur Vogel's body a few years back, putting him on the cyber-path.)

My fault there.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Dr0p5 on (14:39:29/12-25-15)
Nice, but now i want an Biker-gang in Mad Max Style, on their rides beeing escorted by a bunch of cyber wolf´s while crusing over the interstate
(all at voice command for the members)
"Leeeeeroooy get that punk in the Truck",   :P
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: firebug on (14:42:11/12-25-15)
How far/fast do drones move on standard combat scale?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (14:53:36/12-25-15)
There is already an easy way to create suicide bomb drones: Just hardwire the self-destruct module to your drone of choice.

@armorer
Meh, no big deal as long as my drone mechanic can change ownership and produce electronic parts from devices through the hardware skill. Considering that there are nano-forges (or at least have been) and really good 3d-printers preventing drones from creating them is probably futile anyway.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (15:15:37/12-25-15)
@Wakshaani
Respectfully, but as a former Airborne Ranger I have to say that you couldn't be further off the mark with your parachute analogy. You realize that every parachutist out there who jumps with a reserve has placed their trust in certified professionals, as these reserve chutes have to be verified and repacked on a regular basis, right? Not to mention that during jump meets we regularly hire people to pack our rigs (I usually have two, one to jump with while the other is being packed) for us so we can maximize the number of jumps we can get in a day.

Heck, I even regularly had my rifle cared for by unit armorers when a barrel needed changing or new scope fittings were received. That's not to say I didn't tweak it or spend hours and hours zeroing it and getting to know it one and out, but not trusting others to touch my gear in any way, shape, or form is, quite frankly, a ludicrous notion more befitting fiction than realism.

I get where you're going with the fluff, but to my mind, the mechanical and even story implications doesn't fly. As you said, easy enough to "fix", which is exactly what I'll do.

And by the way, Hard Targets introduced hand loads, aka "ways to make your own ammo". No offense intendef, but if the writers aren't even aware of what's going on in / with other publications, I'm starting to understand why the rulebooks feel so disjointed.

Still, rules have always been a guideline to my mind. I'll take what I like from the core rules and change or discard what I don't. I'll personally allow Armorer and pretty much any skillsoft for drones, and in my games drones will have a little more wiggle room for modifications because I feel they are way too constrained as the rules are written. So if nothing else, thanks for providing a solid foundation to build off of.

ETA:
I also can't buy your "corps want to keep guns out of the hands of drones" argument 're: building weapons. So they can't build them in your viewpoint, but Rating 6 Targeting autosofts exists? So, my Proletariat drone can't fix my jammed rifle, but it can beat me to death with it (Melee) or pick up a different gun a shoot me with it? Huh?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (15:25:58/12-25-15)
The "Blow up Good" section of Run & Gun has a section on preparing drones to be mobile bombs.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (15:45:10/12-25-15)
Which raises a question:
If a car has the "Assembly" mod, and selfdestrut on theft, can I just pick up the pieces and rebuild it?
And can I set a timedelay for the anti-theft systems? 8)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (15:46:58/12-25-15)
The "Blow up Good" section of Run & Gun has a section on preparing drones to be mobile bombs.
Good catch! I'd completely overlooked that as I figured I'd never need advanced demolition rules to take down buildings, not realizing there was other stuff in there. Shame on me for skimming the rules...

Which begs the question, just how much C12 can I pack into/on/around a P5 :D

ETA:
Whelp, looks like Run & Gun has me covered, as a small drone can carry Body/2 kilos of explosives. 1Kg of Rating 25 Plastic explosives should be enough to mess up an axle or driveshaft, especially if shaped within the P5 to blow upwards instead of in all directions...
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (16:02:02/12-25-15)
Which raises a question:
If a car has the "Assembly" mod, and selfdestrut on theft, can I just pick up the pieces and rebuild it?
And can I set a timedelay for the anti-theft systems? 8)

Probably not.. now the question would be if there's any way to do a Powered Disassembly...  8)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (16:03:21/12-25-15)
Oh, now that you mention weight: How much does does a drone actually weight?
I can cram 4-5 drones into a vehicle in drone racks, but what if I just pile them into a construction truck?

... Powered Disassembly is the nicest Euphemism I heard this month. I applaud you.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (16:21:48/12-25-15)
Not sure if this got mentioned earlier... but there's actually no costs for Drone Weapon Mounts listed.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Raven2049 on (19:30:21/12-25-15)
maybe a suggestion but when your talking about weapon mounts on p124 include the calculations on how to figure out heavy vs standard, or put in a reference to the rule in the CRB. -realized that the rule has changed so NVM  on this.

edit
also question can the smartsoft autosoft be used on the RCC as a "one for all" program or does it have to be bought per drone (or per weapon)

edit 2
the "Group" autosoft, is that for drones run via commlink? because its already been stated in core that its a simple action to issue drones the same command if they are on the same RCC.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Raven2049 on (20:02:39/12-25-15)
not going to edit this time ^_^

Ares Phobos has availability of 250,000 nuyen p144

probably already mentioned but a quick scan did not pick it up.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: deville on (00:14:56/12-26-15)
I noticed the Mitsuhama Akiyama (the assassination doll) from Hard Targets didn't make it into the Master list of vehicles/drones in the end of the book.
...Matter of fact, I think all the drones from HT were missed (Ammo Drone, Reloading Drone, Sparring Drone, pages 189-190).

Hard Targets isn't a book I worked on, so I didn't know about 'em until it was published. I couldnlt add things in that I didn't know about! They seem pretty solid, but the reloading drone steps on my intending to not have an Armorer Skillsoft. Not *entirely* since it doesn't actually build things, but.

It seems like this comment about  not knowing what was being worked on in other books is a somewhat common thread for you guys. Now that we have the biggest part of the core books done, what are the chances that they, and the other material, can maybe be gone through and matched up some way or another. It would be nice to have rules and stats smoothed out as it were so that there could be more consistency and maybe get all kinds of like things listed together so we wouldn't have to hunt through several books to see all spells, guns etc. Okay, I'm a dreamer but I know I'm not the only one . . . and it is Christmas the season of miracles . . .
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Malevolence on (02:03:58/12-26-15)
Horizon Mini-Zep has a standard operational time of 8 hours - a whopping 2  hours more than the standard operation time of a normal drone. I'm thinking that this should be at least 12 hours since I'd think that LTAV would count at least as Improved Economy.


Which, oddly enough, is not an available option for a drone unless you scrap the special drone mod rules and use the generic vehicle rules. In fact, the generic rules seem much more robust than the drone specific rules, providing a number of options that would be useful for drones - ECM, Signature Masking, Suncell, Gridlink Override (or Skylink Override, as the case may be), Nanomaintenance System, Smuggling Compartment, Touch Sensors, Extreme Environment Modification, Chameleon Coating, Smoke Projector, Road Strip Ejector, Missile Defense System, Spoof Chip, and Retrans unit.


In short, the optional drone modification rules seem like an option without perceptible benefit - they are less flexible and more cumbersome. The only things they really add are:
1. the ability to reduce stats for more mod points, which for some reason the generic rules don't provide information on even though it is expressly mentioned as a thing elsewhere (removing seats to add more storage or room for mods)
2. That drones are more space limited than vehicles, body for body, though that is debatable since they don't have to provide passenger space or amenities and typically have a lower Body as well


The second item is a non-issue in my mind, but can be remedied by simply making an exception to the generic rules that states "unlike vehicles, drones only have 1 point in each category, but they also have a number of additional points equal to their body (or indicated in parenthesis next to their body stat in the drone's stat block) that can be applied to any category", where the one point in each category represents the freebie point mentioned in the drone section.


The first is easily solved by providing some rules for doing so (perhaps with appropriate drone exception if needed). Again, I think that the exception for drones is unneeded, but maybe there is a game balance issue I am missing. The rules for removing features to gain mod points would roughly equate to the drone rules except allowing each stat to be dropped by one to gain a mod point (as opposed to only gaining the benefit from one stat as mentioned in the drone section) and the same rule for reducing body by up to half. In addition, additional features could be removed to gain mod points equal to adding them in. Seating would probably be an exception (and there may be others that might benefit from an exception where they are percentage based), but it would probably be akin to one mod point per passenger.


To be sure, both changes are rough and so might need some slight refinement to avoid abuse, but would have provided more consistency and saved about five pages leaving in the additional weapon mount sizes and rules for autosofts). Which could have been used for additional artwork, or kick ass RCC stuff, or clarification on what attributes to use for the various skills when controlling a vehicle via various methods, or explaining what the Remote Operation specialization for the piloting skills applies to, or what EW specializations apply to the various new actions provided on page 30 (and the ones included in the core book), etc.


Speaking of which, here are some of my guesses (note that some items fall into multiple areas):
Communications: Confuse Pilot, Suppress Noise, Hide, Jump Into Rigged Device, Snoop
Encryption: Check Overwatch Score, Hide, Jump Into Rigged Device, Snoop
Jamming: Suppress Noise, Hide, Jam Signals
Sensor Operations: Break Target Lock, Detect Target Lock, Target Device, Perception via Sensor Array

ETA: Add perception via Sensor to Sensor Operations spec.
Also, upon further review, it would take a lot more points to squeeze drones into the generic mod rules effectively (since it is 5 points instead of 1 for a speed upgrade, and 4 points for handling and acceleration, etc). I still think it's doable, but my rough draft above would not be sufficient. Since most drones are body 4 or less, basic modification would be difficult or impossible under the generic system even with body points per category, so I concede defeat for now while I go back to the drawing table, but I shall return!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (02:05:20/12-26-15)
Generally, books are overlapping on design, but those not in the design process aren't in that particular loop. Once y'all see a book, then those of us who didn't work on it see it, BUT, if we're working on something ourselves, we usually don't peek until there's some downtime. I'm working on two Future Products right now, and am putting seom proposals together for the PDF line, so, I'm not up on teh other recent releases yet. Free time will, hopefully, show up in the New Year.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (06:09:04/12-26-15)
A wild free time appears!  :o
@Malevolence: It was my understanding that you could still use the vehicle mods on drones, if you have the spare capacity.
Sadly, most drones don't have the necessary capacity to attach rocket boosters.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Tinkerbell on (10:44:04/12-26-15)
First question:
On page 31 it states, that a swarm will get the device rating of the RCC, if it's higher than the pilot.
I didnt found a restriction on swarm size. So according to RAW it would be possible to have swams of size 1.
So there is no need of improved pilot software - because your RCC gets the masterbrain, increasing every pilot to it's device rating.

Second question:
Still on page 31, next line, it states that the Swarm uses each autosoft on any drone or on the RCC.
Does this disable the restriction of running autosoft only on the RCC OR on the drone?
Does this mean, that you can have a swarm of 2 drones, running 4 (2 each) autosofts?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Malevolence on (15:22:08/12-26-15)
ECM (2), Signature Masking (1-6), Suncell (2), Gridlink Override (1)(or Skylink Override, as the case may be), Nanomaintenance System (1-4), Smuggling Compartment (3), Touch Sensors (3), Extreme Environment Modification (2), Chameleon Coating (2), Smoke Projector (2), Road Strip Ejector (2), Rocket Booster (10), Missile Defense System (3), Spoof Chip (0), and Retrans unit (2)


@UnLimiTed - That certainly helps. All of the options I listed are 4 mod points or less (or have a variance from 1-6 so you can get them but just maybe not at the highest rating). But yeah, the Rocket Boosters are out for anything but a Body 6+ drone with a massive amount of Body reduction. Body 6 dropped to 3 gets you to 9 mod points, then drop another stat to get the 10 needed. Assuming it had all 6 mod points available to begin with - so far I haven't found any, but it's hard to be sure because a couple of the candidates don't specify available mod points: NeoNet Juggernaut, Ares Matilda. At a guess, though, I'd say it's not possible at all.


@Tinkerbell
1. That is true unless you need the drone to operate autonomously (wireless off), say for reconnaissance where there is strong matrix security.
2. Yes - the RCC is effectively a member of the swarm and shares its resources just like any other member. Swarms are powerful, perhaps too much so. It'll probably be errata'd, but I hope it is mild, like simply limiting the max bonus to something like +5 rather than gutting all of the other useful mechanics that make it a (needed) godsend for riggers.


Keep in mind, it does not improve the defense dice pools for the drones (though it does increase stealth and other detection avoidance skills, which can serve a similar purpose by avoiding people having a target to shoot at to begin with), so if the drone providing your rating 6 targeting autosoft gets blown out of the sky, you lose access to it, potentially requiring use of a lower rated autosoft (in addition to the -1 dice pool from the reduced swarm size). In other words, while you can use the drones to increase your limit to running autosofts, they are more at risk than the RCC. And depending on how you play autosofts, it might be tied to that drone meaning that when the drone gets destroyed, so does the autosoft (ouch!).


While the description says "a single drone with multiple, separate bodies", it doesn't say or even imply that they have to be clustered together for easy area attacks. The ranged drones can hang back while the melee (or distracting unarmed) models harry the target, reducing the chance that the swarm is taken out by a single grenade. Indeed, multiple ranged drones would likely attack from multiple angles to provide the swarm attack bonus by making the attacks harder to defend against.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (15:43:53/12-26-15)
Gonna have to be a nag about this but any ETA on when we can expect to see drone weapon mount prices? It's a pretty damn critical oversight...
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Raven2049 on (16:23:17/12-26-15)
LARGE DRONE              HANDL       SPEED   ACCEL   BODY   ARMOR   PILOT   SEN         AVAIL   COST
MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone                4            2R                1             4(4)        6               3              3             6          8000$

So with the Bumblebee fiasco i wonder if we missed this one in the listing. The CRB states to treat the body of a roto drone as 3 higher when modding/putting weapon mounts on. Now i know that the new modpoint system required the devs to look at the existing drones again and adjust things up but i was up until recently able to put a heavy weapon mount on my roto's, now with the new system i have to completely rebuild my rigger up. I know you can increase across the board by +1 for next to no cost, but if i want to put my missle launcher on my roto's i need to somehow get 2 MP's for my roto (6 MP cost in Rigger 5). why cant we make Body be 4(6) and be exactly where we were before?

Next comment, The cost increased by 3000$, the speed dropped by 2, accel droped by 1, body (see above) armor up by 2 (yay!) now i know the argument for the bumblebee applies to this above situation, but i realy REALLY dont see the argument for giving me less stats and jumping the cost by 3000$.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (16:41:08/12-26-15)
In terms of the weapon modification, P115 "Core Vehicle Modifications" lists:
Quote
MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone: Three extra Weapon Modification Slots.
So that as least has been kept... and yeah I missed the changes to the Roto-Drone... once again reducing points AND increasing costs.. REALLY?!

Like OK it's not so bad, there's only a net loss of 1 point... but still the price has gone up over 50%!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (19:18:49/12-26-15)
I mentioned that earlier in this thread; For transportation the biggest difference is that it is now large.
The price is irritating, but Speed 2R is probably not much slower than it was before, if at all. Well, we didn't really have proper speeds before anyways.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (00:35:10/12-27-15)
Gonna have to be a nag about this but any ETA on when we can expect to see drone weapon mount prices? It's a pretty damn critical oversight...

I thought I'd posted this earlier! Turns out that it's in the file I sent upstairs but NOT here. Time to fix that!

800$ * MP used. Keeps it simple, but a tad less than core.

Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (00:42:25/12-27-15)
Gonna have to be a nag about this but any ETA on when we can expect to see drone weapon mount prices? It's a pretty damn critical oversight...

I thought I'd posted this earlier! Turns out that it's in the file I sent upstairs but NOT here. Time to fix that!

800$ * MP used. Keeps it simple, but a tad less than core.

Going to assume then that Tiny mounts use the "Count 0 as 0.5" thing so as they cost 400 not 0?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: asucrews on (00:43:04/12-27-15)
A Bit of clarification please.

"The Pilot program determines the Rating of the drone as a whole,"

Does this mean if you upgrade the pilot program the device rating matches the new pilot rating?

i.e.
Pilot 1 = DR 1
Pilot 2 = DR 2
Pilot 3 = DR 3
Pilot 4 = DR 4
Pilot 5 = DR 5
Pilot 6 = DR 6
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: asucrews on (01:04:59/12-27-15)
ASSEMBLY TIME IMPROVEMENT doesnt say how this actually affects assembly or disassembly times. if the drone takes 2 combat turns it takes 1 now or what?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: firebug on (01:08:48/12-27-15)
I feel bad about spamming, but it's something that really needs to be answered...  Drone movement on standard combat scale.  I can be more specific!

1) Is the Movement Rates Table on SR5 Page 202 still accurate/relevant?

2) Do the new Speed qualifiers (Water, Ground, Rotor, Jet) affect standard-scale movement at all?

3) How does Acceleration factor into standard movement?
3a) Is there a minimum movement per turn? I.E. If you're moving at Speed 3, can you decide to not move at all next turn?

4) How many meters per turn can something with 0 Speed move?

5) What constitutes "Running" for a vehicle or drone?  How does a Running speed work with a set Speed attribute?

I'm also still unclear about movement rates of drones and vehicles on standard-scale combat.  Especially with the new classifications on Speed for Ground and Rotor, I somehow don't think the Kanmushi was ever intended to be able to run at 20m a turn.  And can the Cheetah really go 160m each turn "walking"?  Is it a zero to max thing, too, or do they have to deal with Acceleration and take the Change Speed Simple Action like vehicles?  Do vehicles still have "running" rates, whatever the hell that's supposed to be...?

Seconded. Seriously, are we still bound to these ridiculous exponentially rising Tactical Movement Speeds from the Core Rulebook? If so: Then what is the Movement Rate of the new nerfed-into-oblivion Bumblebee with its Speed of 0?

By the way, with the rules in the book, the Cheetah runs at 238 miles per hour, not 112.  Though it does have a "Walking Speed" of only 119 MPH, as retarded as "Walking Speed" is as a term here.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (08:04:05/12-27-15)
If you use the swarm action in tandem with the swarm program, will a drone swarm count as a single drone for the threshold, given they only get a single bonus?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Raven2049 on (09:05:20/12-27-15)
In terms of the weapon modification, P115 "Core Vehicle Modifications" lists:
Quote
MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone: Three extra Weapon Modification Slots.
So that as least has been kept... and yeah I missed the changes to the Roto-Drone... once again reducing points AND increasing costs.. REALLY?!

Like OK it's not so bad, there's only a net loss of 1 point... but still the price has gone up over 50%!

but its not listed in the stat block at the end of the book. it still listed as 4(4) following that statement it should be 4(7)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (14:11:30/12-27-15)
In terms of the weapon modification, P115 "Core Vehicle Modifications" lists:
Quote
MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone: Three extra Weapon Modification Slots.
So that as least has been kept... and yeah I missed the changes to the Roto-Drone... once again reducing points AND increasing costs.. REALLY?!

Like OK it's not so bad, there's only a net loss of 1 point... but still the price has gone up over 50%!

but its not listed in the stat block at the end of the book. it still listed as 4(4) following that statement it should be 4(7)

No because these are three extra points specifically for weapon modification. Being 4 (7) would imply the points could be used for anything.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (19:36:19/12-27-15)
I thought I'd posted this earlier! Turns out that it's in the file I sent upstairs but NOT here. Time to fix that!

800$ * MP used. Keeps it simple, but a tad less than core.

Going to assume then that Tiny mounts use the "Count 0 as 0.5" thing so as they cost 400 not 0?

Yup. Use 0.5 instead of 0 for all multipliers. no freebies. :)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (19:40:38/12-27-15)
I feel bad about spamming, but it's something that really needs to be answered...  Drone movement on standard combat scale.  I can be more specific!

1) Is the Movement Rates Table on SR5 Page 202 still accurate/relevant?

2) Do the new Speed qualifiers (Water, Ground, Rotor, Jet) affect standard-scale movement at all?

3) How does Acceleration factor into standard movement?
3a) Is there a minimum movement per turn? I.E. If you're moving at Speed 3, can you decide to not move at all next turn?

4) How many meters per turn can something with 0 Speed move?

5) What constitutes "Running" for a vehicle or drone?  How does a Running speed work with a set Speed attribute?

I'm also still unclear about movement rates of drones and vehicles on standard-scale combat.  Especially with the new classifications on Speed for Ground and Rotor, I somehow don't think the Kanmushi was ever intended to be able to run at 20m a turn.  And can the Cheetah really go 160m each turn "walking"?  Is it a zero to max thing, too, or do they have to deal with Acceleration and take the Change Speed Simple Action like vehicles?  Do vehicles still have "running" rates, whatever the hell that's supposed to be...?

Seconded. Seriously, are we still bound to these ridiculous exponentially rising Tactical Movement Speeds from the Core Rulebook? If so: Then what is the Movement Rate of the new nerfed-into-oblivion Bumblebee with its Speed of 0?

By the way, with the rules in the book, the Cheetah runs at 238 miles per hour, not 112.  Though it does have a "Walking Speed" of only 119 MPH, as retarded as "Walking Speed" is as a term here.

Vehicles cannot 'run', only 'walk'. The top speed of their Speed attribute is their *top* speed.

As for the meters per round? Gah. I'd have to do math. KPH*1000 = Meters per hour. Meters per hour -360 gives Meters per second. I'd have to check to know how many seconds are in a combat round (D&D uses 6 seconds, but I think Shadowrun's 3 seconds. I'd have to check.)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (20:28:16/12-27-15)
KM/h * 1,000 = M/h * 60 = M/m * 60 = M/s / 3 = M/Combat Round
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (20:38:26/12-27-15)
The core book has both walking and running speeds for vehicles and drones, Wakshaani. What do you mean when you say vehicles can only walk?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: gradivus on (03:08:30/12-28-15)
Speed

Water   Spd*15KPH      Spd*12.5m/turn   
Ground   Spd*30KPH      Spd*25m/turn   
Rotor   Spd*60KPH      Spd*50m/turn   
Jet           Spd*600KPH      Spd*500m/turn   


Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (06:48:41/12-28-15)
In the Interest of Brand Awareness:
The Sony Goldfish is described as Renraku Goldfish in it's own fluff.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: falar on (09:06:55/12-28-15)
Speed

Water   Spd*15KPH      Spd*12.5m/turn   
Ground   Spd*30KPH      Spd*25m/turn   
Rotor   Spd*60KPH      Spd*50m/turn   
Jet           Spd*600KPH      Spd*500m/turn
So, I know Wakshaani posted these rates in this thread or the Rigger 5.0 announcement thread ... but are the drone movement rates actually anywhere in the books? I have been scouring to find them and only find a very general note that Jet beats Rotor beats Ground beats Water, but nothing super specific like the KPH values.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: RiggerBob on (10:46:49/12-28-15)
Page 181 has a listing on relative speeds and modifying factors (0.8 water, 1 ground, 3 rotor, 4 jet) but that neither tells us how fast 4P is (P is for plane? pedestrian? pigeons?^^  I first assumed plane, then found the tunneler to have a speed of 0P) nor how a 0R drone moves anything faster than 0*3=0...

Sadly this isn't the first time in 5th edition that i get the feeling some (co-)writer answers questions based on what he planned to include without actually writing it down or based on a "finished" book, that got heavily edited/cut before publishing.  :'(

PS: What's that compiled tables entry under "Seven"? There are 7 sub-entries for the 7 different base models and one additional line that doesn't make sense.

PPS: And of course these factors (3 for rotory and 4 for jets) aren't even close to the speed table above^^ (Based on the table it should be x0.5, x1, x2, x20... At least there would be room for some P=plane mode between rotors and jets  :D )
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (11:36:03/12-28-15)
Speed

Water   Spd*15KPH      Spd*12.5m/turn   
Ground   Spd*30KPH      Spd*25m/turn   
Rotor   Spd*60KPH      Spd*50m/turn   
Jet           Spd*600KPH      Spd*500m/turn
That doesn't really help. How do you determine speed for the purposes of Ramming, for example? If the vehicle is traveling faster than it's walking speed while Ramming, the pilot must make a vehicle test.

In short, one cannot just undo the concept of vehicles having a running and a walking speed without seriously rewriting the core rules. As far as I can tell, the optional chase combat rules does nothing to remedy this...
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Cabral on (14:44:01/12-28-15)
Pages 184 and 46:
The Yamaha Nodachi has an availability of 12R despite having a nearly identical stat line to the Harley Nightmare (the Nodachi has +1 armor, -1 sensor, and +6,000 nuyen. The fluff says that it "Yamaha claims the bike was designed for the street and retrofitted for combat bikers" and "it always looks lethal so it rarely draws any more attention than regular bikes."

There is nothing in the stat line, standard features (it has none), or fluff that justify the restricted rating, but the fluff does not appear to be internally consistent. Apart from the fluff needing to be cleaned up, is there something else missing or is the restricted rating out of place?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: gradivus on (14:56:29/12-28-15)
Speed

Water   Spd*15KPH      Spd*12.5m/turn   
Ground   Spd*30KPH      Spd*25m/turn   
Rotor   Spd*60KPH      Spd*50m/turn   
Jet           Spd*600KPH      Spd*500m/turn
That doesn't really help. How do you determine speed for the purposes of Ramming, for example? If the vehicle is traveling faster than it's walking speed while Ramming, the pilot must make a vehicle test.

In short, one cannot just undo the concept of vehicles having a running and a walking speed without seriously rewriting the core rules. As far as I can tell, the optional chase combat rules does nothing to remedy this...

I just extrapolated the KPH Wak posted to m/turn so the whining would stop.

the walk/run rate in the corebook make no sense, so why would this?
Seriously- I'm at 20m/turn at Spd 1, I'm running so -3.
I accelerate to spd 2 and stay at 20m/turn, no -3, but 21m/turn (since it exceeds the posted walk rate) is -3. Except for the SPD 1, every other SPD has exactly 1 rate that is walking, the rest is running.

They should have left Speed and Acceleration as an actual m/turn with 'run rate' listed.

So Speed 25/60...anything up to 25 is walking, 26 to 60 is running. Except...
Acc 10/15, if you accelerate more than 10 your running even if you haven't surpassed the 1st Spd listed (the whole pedal to the metal being harder to control than smooth acceleration).
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (21:01:31/12-28-15)
Agreed, gradivus, the SR4 method would have been far less complicated if you ask me. That's partly why Wakshaani's comment confuses me so, because his statement directly contradicts key elements of vehicle combat from the core rulebook that as far as I can tell are not supplanted by Rigger 5.0.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: gradivus on (04:18:14/12-29-15)
If I knew what to do about Handling/Speed for the SR5 limits, I would just use the 4e vehicles and mod rules...
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Finstersang on (10:14:49/12-29-15)
The mess with the speed is one of the main reasons why I have been so reluctant to use Drones and Vehicles in Tactical Combat, even as GM. And this is sad: Nothing´s more Sci-Fi than Drones.But how am I supposed to do that if can´t really tell how these little beasts move? Let alone how to make them a threat...

The latter part can be fixed with custom gear and programms and by small changes to the way Autosofts and Sensor Targeting work. TBH, I dont´t mind the Limit on Autosofts run on the drone - but it should be allowed to use the drones Autosofts and RCC Autosofts at the same time! With the current rules, you still can only have a sufficient Drone Army by sticking to one drone model only. Also, the prepacked Programms for some Drones are basically useless.
And with Sensor Targeting, I´m always asking myself why there even is a penalty to detect metahuman Targets. Shouldn´t this be easier because of Body Heat, Sweat, Breathing etc.? Making Sensor targeting more valuable would also help to fix the Dice pool problem, plus it gives you that cool "target-acquired-target-eliminated"-vibe.

One can houserule everything. But when even something as basic as movement is not fixed by a supplement and it´s mostly just another slap in the face for the Drone Lovers - GM and PC alike -, you start to ask yourself why you even buy those supplements. If it weren´t for some neat stuff like the Swarm Rules and the vehicle modifications (It´s surprising how less bad everything about Rigger 5.0 is if you just use these for Drones as well - which, by the way, also seems to be the case in the "Core Vehicle Modifications" Infobox on p. 155), I´d consider this Supplement a waste.

So, since this thread is already shifting from "pure" Errata to an  "OMG, please fix this"-discussion: Please, Wakshaani! Try to make your Movement Table an official thing! There are already changes to the ever-beloved Bumblebee - why stop there?

Edit: Changed the post to sound less - well, erm, sore :D

Because you guys are right: Wakshaani is doing a great Job here by actually listening and responding to our criticism.     
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (13:46:20/12-29-15)
Putting up an Errata thread is a daunting task.  ::)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: firebug on (14:16:21/12-29-15)
Putting up an Errata thread is a daunting task.  ::)

It really is.  You have to deal with a lot of people talking all at once, all asking different things or the same thing multiple times.  Some people can get very emotional about it, or start throwing around accusations.  And it's a lot of work to answer it all on top of the work Wakshaani is doing normally, I'm sure.  I'm very thankful he's been able to answer all he can.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: falar on (14:40:38/12-29-15)
I'm very thankful he's been able to answer all he can.
Yeah, Wakshaani is kind of a rock star for good responsiveness and positive interaction with the community. It seems like he had a lot of things noted down from his playtesting and stuff that the editors failed to see were missing. As a freelancer, he's doing a great job and above and beyond what I'd expect. If anything, I'd expect things like Errata threads and whatnot to be run by actual Catalyst employees rather than freelancers.

But, in my head, once you've delivered your product and it's gone through editing, you're released from your hold and answering to the material. It is now fully the material and fault of the people who bought it from you and published it. So Wakshaani is going way, way, way far above and beyond what I would expect and I thank him for that.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (12:52:02/12-31-15)
@Wakshaani, this is how you generate tables using forumcode (quote my post if you want to see details; you can also find tons of BBCode table generators online):
NAMEHANDLSPEEDACCELBODYARMORPILOTSENSAVAILCOSTREF
Shiawase Kanmushi (Micro)40G0002381,000¥p. 465, SR5
S-B Microskimmer (Micro)31R1002261,000¥p. 465, SR5
Horizon Flying Eye (Mini)41R11(1)02382,000¥p. 465, SR5
MCT Fly-Spy (Mini)41R11(1)02302,000¥p. 466, SR5
Aztechnology Crawler (Mini)31G11(1)03242,000¥p. 466, SR5
Renraku Scuttler (Mini)41G11(0)02288,000¥
Lockheed Optic-X2 (Small)44R22(1)3331021,000¥p. 466, SR5
Ares Mercury (Small)4/-1G12(1)02221,000¥
Ares Sentry V (Small)4/-1G12(0)6324R4,000¥
F-B Bumblebee (Medium)40R03(0)123312F25,000¥p. 23, Nothing Personal
Ares Duelist (Large)41G14(0)9328R8,000¥p. 466, SR5
GM-Nissan Doberman (Large)32G14(4)9334R8,000¥p. 466, SR5
MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone (Large)42R14(4)63368,000¥p. 466, SR5
Aeroquip Dustoff (Large)44R24(1)64310R40,000¥p. 23, B&B
Caduceus 7 (Large)42G15(2)32112R16,500¥p. 23, B&B

That being said, what am I missing regarding the Renraku Scuttler, Ares Mercury, and Ares Sentry V? I can't find any stats on these in the core books. Also, what the heck happened to the Dustoff? It was 12K in Bullets and Bandages; it got +1 Handling, speed remained at 4 but got Rotor, -2 Acceleration, Body remains at 4 but 3 Mod Points are used, +1 Armor, same pilot and sensor, and a cost increase of 28k?

Also, any chance of getting updated stats for some of the drones that appear in missions and adventures, like the ones in Hard Target (see below), Lockdown, and Stolen Souls?

Reference:
NAMEHANDLSPEEDACCELBODYARMORPILOTSENSAVAILCOSTREF
Ammo Drone (Small Drone)222243253,000¥p. 189, HT
Reloading Drone (Medium Drone)43234326R4,500¥p. 189, HT
Mitsuhama Akiyama (Medium Drone)532463324F200,000¥p. 190, HT
Sparring Drone (Large Drone)32242 (Special)3365,000¥p. 190, HT
MCT Iron Dragon (Large)55361444--p. 227, Lockdown
Bust-A-Move 2nd Gen (Medium)4312122-700-1,500¥p. 187, Stolen Souls
Cyberspace Designs Dragonfly (Small)432113212R2,500¥p. 187, Stolen Souls
GMC Snath'n'Grab (Large)342243312F8,000¥p. 187, Stolen Souls
Modified Dassault Janitorial Drone (Large)22210222810,000¥p. 187, Stolen Souls
Transys Office Maid (Medium)322304348,000¥p. 187, Stolen Souls
Modified Renraku Manservant-3 (Large)222353314F9,000¥p. 187, Stolen Souls


Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (15:14:54/12-31-15)
This thread (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22956.msg422745#msg422745) also brought up the question about underbarrel grenade launchers (and underbarrel weapons in general). Why are these specified on the Standard size mount (3 MP)? Does an Ares Alpha need both a Large (4 MP, assault rifle) and a Standard (3 MP, under-barrel grenade launcher) mount, for a total of 7MP? Or is it something else entirely.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on (15:21:49/12-31-15)
This thread (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22956.msg422745#msg422745) also brought up the question about underbarrel grenade launchers (and underbarrel weapons in general). Why are these specified on the Standard size mount (3 MP)? Does an Ares Alpha need both a Large (4 MP, assault rifle) and a Standard (3 MP, under-barrel grenade launcher) mount, for a total of 7MP? Or is it something else entirely.

That just seemed like a straight forward case of you can use it to mount the smaller under barrel grenade launcher as a separate weapon system.

But as one of my players pointed out, the Tiny Weapon Mount can fire a single bullet or dart... but has no stats.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Kincaid on (15:34:19/12-31-15)
Surely we've all had players who bring a single-shot hold out pistol using an assault cannon round?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: firebug on (17:24:14/12-31-15)
Surely we've all had players who bring a single-shot hold out pistol using an assault cannon round?

Generally not, since that's impossible.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (17:26:33/12-31-15)
Surely we've all had players who bring a single-shot hold out pistol using an assault cannon round?

Generally not, since that's impossible.
Only in recent editions. SR3s Cannon Companion allows you to craft custom weapons, including, you guessed it, a hold out with a single assault cannon round ;)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Gratuitous Boom on (00:55:08/01-01-16)
Also, don't forget that you can dress an Anthro drone in armor and it will then use *eiher* the armor *or* it's own... they don't stack. (Sorry!) ... that one's called out specifically in their section. :)

I've scanned the book and haven't been able to find any reference for this rule.

Would an anthro drones with worn armor still have the damage threshold that vehicles get?

Edit: Sometimes I'm a moron. Modified DV equal or less than modified armor is converted to stun damage. Vehicles don't have a stun tract. Therefore anthro drones retain the "damage threshold".
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (12:41:48/01-01-16)
I think it still gets the damage threshold based on it's inherent armor, but uses the worn armor for soaking. Essentially like the Granite Skin mutation, only the drone gets no free soak hits.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Game2bHappy on (17:10:22/01-01-16)
The mess with the speed is one of the main reasons why I have been so reluctant to use Drones and Vehicles in Tactical Combat, even as GM. And this is sad: Nothing´s more Sci-Fi than Drones.But how am I supposed to do that if can´t really tell how these little beasts move? Let alone how to make them a threat...

  Definitely agree.  I am merely echoing the frustration of players in Missions runs with multiple GMs.  Since movement is redefined every time they switch GMs, they are already pretty frustrated by the time they arrive in my game.
  Chase scenes - the only vehicle movement rules that are relatively defined - are rarely used and usually occur as fluff with the characters taking other combat/non-combat actions to make the scene interesting and player-driven.   I would love to see a vehicle/drone system that works within normal combat.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: firebug on (18:19:07/01-01-16)
It is odd.  Myself and just about every player I know doesn't think "vehicle chase" when they think drones.  They think "building security" or "tactical combat drone".  Standard scale is what the default for drones is and should be but there's no rules for basic movement...  It's weird.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ProfGast on (13:15:47/01-02-16)
This is kinda a Shadowtalk issue but on page 43 Turbo Bunny and Thorn are talking about tricks using the Revolution Monocycle.

Turbo says there's a "360" trick that sends you "straight back the way you came" and states the "half measure" of the 180 puts you flat on your side.  Judging by context I think she actually means the 180 goes straight back where you come from and an attempt at a sharp 90 puts you on your side because you know.... a 360 means you end up continuing the way you were originally going.  Because Geometry.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Gratuitous Boom on (11:43:48/01-05-16)
On page 159 under Armor, the maximum armor a vehicle can have is described as base armor plus body. However, in the protection modifications table obvious armor costs ratingx2 mod slots and concealed armor costs rating x 3 slots. This means the maxi armor for a vehicle is base armor plus body/2 for obvious armor and base armor plus body/3 for concealed armor. This is a non trivial difference.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: falar on (12:28:44/01-05-16)
On page 159 under Armor, the maximum armor a vehicle can have is described as base armor plus body. However, in the protection modifications table obvious armor costs ratingx2 mod slots and concealed armor costs rating x 3 slots. This means the maxi armor for a vehicle is base armor plus body/2 for obvious armor and base armor plus body/3 for concealed armor. This is a non trivial difference.
Yeah. I was building out my Tanked Up Ford Americar and noticed this. One part says Armor + Body and the other ends up being Armor + Body/2 or Armor + Body/3, which means you can't really get a ridiculously tank Ford Americar for driving through the CZ.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Malevolence on (13:18:19/01-05-16)

Wakshaani, your updated stats drop the Crawler from a small drone to a Mini drone, with a rather dramatic reduction to the drone's body (3->1), making it much more limited in terms of what it could mount. The core version could mount an assault rifle, the updated version can mount up to a light pistol, or a machine pistol if you downgrade another stat. There is no other suitable body 3 small drone to replace it - you might be able to gut a Shamus or MCT Tunneler to get close, but even then the addition of Gecko Grips would put you over in points.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Malevolence on (13:24:38/01-05-16)

On page 159 under Armor, the maximum armor a vehicle can have is described as base armor plus body. However, in the protection modifications table obvious armor costs ratingx2 mod slots and concealed armor costs rating x 3 slots. This means the maxi armor for a vehicle is base armor plus body/2 for obvious armor and base armor plus body/3 for concealed armor. This is a non trivial difference.

I think it is written that way because there may be edge cases with low body vehicles where pulling out mods to gain additional mod points could allow you to buy more than [body] worth of armor. Without more robust vehicle downgrade rules, this isn't possible with any of the existing vehicles that I can see, but might be possible with drones if you use the vehicle rules for them. But there might be vehicles in future books that make it possible (a body 4 bike with factory installed Rating 3+ Anti-Theft, for example).
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: gradivus on (08:27:49/01-06-16)
On page 159 under Armor, the maximum armor a vehicle can have is described as base armor plus body. However, in the protection modifications table obvious armor costs ratingx2 mod slots and concealed armor costs rating x 3 slots. This means the maxi armor for a vehicle is base armor plus body/2 for obvious armor and base armor plus body/3 for concealed armor. This is a non trivial difference.
Yeah. I was building out my Tanked Up Ford Americar and noticed this. One part says Armor + Body and the other ends up being Armor + Body/2 or Armor + Body/3, which means you can't really get a ridiculously tank Ford Americar for driving through the CZ.

which is why it's better to be in an up-armored Bulldog than found on road dead in an Americar
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on (15:04:15/01-06-16)
I will double check again in a bit, but the milspec Rhino has different stats in the table than under its section in the Milspec groundcrafts, with it being far better in the section than the table.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Malevolence on (16:37:27/01-06-16)
No pricing is given for the options for the Wolf II (p. 77). It has ¥ symbols in parenthesis like there was the intent to have them, but that's all there is except for Troop Transport (for 0¥, which I assume means that this is the default loadout).
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on (16:44:28/01-06-16)
Correction, it is significantly different stats.

                     HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARM PILOT SENS SEATS AVAIL COST
P.77 version: 4/4       4            2           24     14        6           7.        9.       18R 225,000¥
Table: Rhino 4/4         4.          2.        17         18.    4.             4.       9         18R 225,000¥

Not only is there a drop in body by 7, but pilot by 2 (6 is kinda high) and sensors by 3 (7 is extremely high). While armor went up by 4, that doesn't make up for the massive loss to body. So Wak, which is correct and then please fix it in your errata/printing if you can.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (18:18:00/01-06-16)
Clarification on Swarm; if drones in a swarm benefit from an increased Pilot rating, can such drones run higher rated autosofts accordingly?

I.e. a swarm of four unmodified MCT Kenchiku-Kikai (Pilot 2) cannot normally run a Smartsoft (as it counts as a Rating 3 autosoft). When slaved to a Device Rating 5 RCC, could one or more drones in the swarm, which now benefit from Pilot 5, run autosofts up to Rating 5 or are they still limited to their Rating 2 pilot?

Furthermore, the rules for swarm states that "for game purposes only use a single weapon’s stats (the others are covered by the action bonuses the swarm receives)". Using the example above of four unmodified MCT Kenchiku-Kikai drones but armed with Ares Alpha assault rifles, would you only ever roll for attack with one of them while they are swarming?
If yes, then this rule seems to heavily encourage paring a single strong(er) combat drone with multiple low-cost drones (like a Microskimmer or Fly-Spy) simply to get the swarm bonus, even if those drones are unarmed. Something to consider when rewriting Swarm, because it definitely needs a rewrite given it's current practically unlimited potential (swarm of Device Rating * 3 drones = +((Device Rating * 3) -1) dice pool modifier, for potentially hilarious results...)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: falar on (18:43:04/01-06-16)
I go back and forth on whether all drones in the Swarm should need to be able to take the action. Basically, what you're doing is you're having them donate all their processing power and perspective to the "lead drone" for the action. So they don't actually need to do it, per se, they just have to donate power and resources to helping do it.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Malevolence on (19:18:41/01-06-16)
They also serve to distract and corral targets into an optimal position. This is the only way I can see ranged and melee drones working in concert. The melee distract the target up close so the ranged drone can take the shot, or vice versa (the ranged drones harry the target so that the melee drone can sneak in a well placed attack). The additional processing power I mostly see represented in the pilot upgrades and additional autosoft capability. The bonus dice are essentially the other drones performing a teamwork test that automatically gets one success (and no more).
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (04:24:10/01-10-16)
Just noticed something:

Armorer Autosoft already exists officially.

Hard Targets (p.189) has the Reloading Drone that explicitly relies on such software (even with a funnily underpriced version for forbidden weapons)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (08:52:05/01-10-16)
Heh, good find, Jack_Spade.
Quote from: Hard Targets p. 190
An Armorer autosoft suite is included with the drone, allowing it to reload all non-forbidden firearms. Forbidden firearms require an illegal Armorer autosoft costing 250 nuyen.

You were saying, Wakshaani? :D
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Novocrane on (15:51:25/01-10-16)
It's been covered before - Hard Targets and Rigger 5 weren't talking with each other. While it is technically an armourer autosoft, it's not much use for anything that isn't a reloading drone that reloads.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (16:22:21/01-10-16)
Actually - combined with swarm software - a bunch of reloading drones would have a huge dice pool to implement about any armorer action you want thanks to their pair of articulated arms (which makes them incidentally superior to the evo proletarian in practically every way)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Novocrane on (17:11:27/01-10-16)
Quote
An Armorer autosoft suite is included with the drone, allowing it to reload all non-forbidden firearms.
Any reloading drone owner can implement any armourer action, so long as it's a reloading action.

Quote
thanks to their pair of articulated arms (which makes them incidentally superior to the evo proletarian in practically every way)
Manipulator Arms, whatever that means to your GM. I wouldn't see the need for anything fancy on a 4,500¥ drone that only deals with reloading.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (20:24:16/01-10-16)
It's a weird concept.
I would definitely trust a machine with manufacturing my weapons, it can be patient and precise far in excess of a human operator and will always produce the superior product if they programmer was just good enough (which can be assumed isn't the case, but there might be further advances in the future).
But I'm not sure there's that much point in a reloading drone unless I get a set of hardened weapons and just drop them to quickpull a new one whenever one runs dry.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: on (00:03:10/01-12-16)

[cut]

Also, any chance of getting updated stats for some of the drones that appear in missions and adventures, like the ones in Hard Target (see below), Lockdown, and Stolen Souls?

[cut]

Could it be possible to take this one step further and have an errata pdf containing a fixed table for drones (and vehicles) from all the books?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: adzling on (10:59:08/01-12-16)
Hey Wak, maybe I missed it but is there errata for Rigger 5.0?
Was the PDF updated (I thought I heard someone mention that)?

We would like to use Rigger 5.0 in our campaign but cannot due to all the editing errors, stat contradictions and incomplete information.

thanks!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (11:08:23/01-12-16)
The PDF was updated, but as far as I'm aware only to include a workable PDF table of contents/bookmarks.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: adzling on (11:59:07/01-12-16)
Thanks for the clarification Herr.

So Wak did you post the fixed drone stats somewhere?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (09:28:22/01-14-16)

Wakshaani, your updated stats drop the Crawler from a small drone to a Mini drone, with a rather dramatic reduction to the drone's body (3->1), making it much more limited in terms of what it could mount. The core version could mount an assault rifle, the updated version can mount up to a light pistol, or a machine pistol if you downgrade another stat. There is no other suitable body 3 small drone to replace it - you might be able to gut a Shamus or MCT Tunneler to get close, but even then the addition of Gecko Grips would put you over in points.

The Crawler's traditionally been a Mini drone over the past few editions. I'm not certain why it got enlarged for SR core, but I wanted to put it back where it's supposed to be. You can grab one of the MCT Seven for a drone with 3 mod points, if you need a lil' gunny sidekick. They're fragile (Bod 2 base, modified to 1(3), but handy for modders. (Man, I have a lot of thread to catch up on!)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (09:33:31/01-14-16)
Correction, it is significantly different stats.

                     HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARM PILOT SENS SEATS AVAIL COST
P.77 version: 4/4       4            2           24     14        6           7.        9.       18R 225,000¥
Table: Rhino 4/4         4.          2.        17         18.    4.             4.       9         18R 225,000¥

Not only is there a drop in body by 7, but pilot by 2 (6 is kinda high) and sensors by 3 (7 is extremely high). While armor went up by 4, that doesn't make up for the massive loss to body. So Wak, which is correct and then please fix it in your errata/printing if you can.

In this instance, the chart is correct, not the original section. (Not sure why that change didn't get in, but the chart adjustments were the very final thing adjusted. Which is also why the shifted columns weren't caught, I do believe!)

(Not my chapter, by the by, I just happened to see that alteration when it went in!)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (09:45:13/01-14-16)
Thanks for the clarification Herr.

So Wak did you post the fixed drone stats somewhere?

Some, but not all. I haven't heard back if certain things were intended or not, and I don't like jumping the gun and stating something without going upstairs. I can talk about soem stuff *I* did, but talking about *other* stuff, I'm more careful about. Not telepathic, despite a love of tuna fish. :D

Which ones, in particular, do you have questions about? I'll do what I can!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (09:58:09/01-14-16)
@Wakshaani, this is how you generate tables using forumcode (quote my post if you want to see details; you can also find tons of BBCode table generators online):
(snip)

Bless you! That's gonna come in tres handy! Now to figure out what to call it as  a save file so I can call it up later. Hmm...
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (10:03:02/01-14-16)
This thread (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22956.msg422745#msg422745) also brought up the question about underbarrel grenade launchers (and underbarrel weapons in general). Why are these specified on the Standard size mount (3 MP)? Does an Ares Alpha need both a Large (4 MP, assault rifle) and a Standard (3 MP, under-barrel grenade launcher) mount, for a total of 7MP? Or is it something else entirely.

The intent was to use it as a stand-alone weapon system, since it's not as good as a full-sized grenade launcher. The assault weapon 'oversight' is a fumble, since it creates a class of "obviously superior" weapon loads which is bad, but, the mechanics don't take it into effect. So, officially, the Alpha takes 4 MP as any other assault rifle does. *un*officially, if you wanted to houserule it to require 5 MP, I, for one, wouldn't complain. (That would make it consume more than a normal AR, but less than a heavy weapon, which would seem to be a fair compromise.)

Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: adzling on (10:19:30/01-14-16)
Just trying to find out if you had created a doc/ post/ something somewhere that compiles all the correct drone stats.

+ I'm sure others have noted it but the tables at the back of the book contradict the description for pricing for Realistic mod to drones (they don't match at all).
Any idea which one is correct?

thanks for being so engaged and responsive ;-)

Thanks for the clarification Herr.

So Wak did you post the fixed drone stats somewhere?

Some, but not all. I haven't heard back if certain things were intended or not, and I don't like jumping the gun and stating something without going upstairs. I can talk about soem stuff *I* did, but talking about *other* stuff, I'm more careful about. Not telepathic, despite a love of tuna fish. :D

Which ones, in particular, do you have questions about? I'll do what I can!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: adzling on (11:06:20/01-14-16)
Here's another question Wak.

Page 124/125 talks about expanded ammunition bays and how now drone weapons only have the default capacity of the weapon (i.e. on clip/ mag etc) unless you expand it.

Sooo
1). does that mean that if you put an AK-98 on a drone that it uses the same physical clip as the non-drone mounted weapon?
2). how about expanded / larger capacity clips from Hard Targets, no go?
3). What about weapons that can take clips or belts, for example an LMG like the Stoner? When placed on a drone does it use belt feed by default?
4). If the answer to the above question is yes and you "expand" it's ammo capacity does that take one or two mod points (I would expect only one mod point as it already has a belt feed mechanism)?

thanks
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on (13:54:55/01-14-16)
Correction, it is significantly different stats.

                     HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARM PILOT SENS SEATS AVAIL COST
P.77 version: 4/4       4            2           24     14        6           7.        9.       18R 225,000¥
Table: Rhino 4/4         4.          2.        17         18.    4.             4.       9         18R 225,000¥

Not only is there a drop in body by 7, but pilot by 2 (6 is kinda high) and sensors by 3 (7 is extremely high). While armor went up by 4, that doesn't make up for the massive loss to body. So Wak, which is correct and then please fix it in your errata/printing if you can.

In this instance, the chart is correct, not the original section. (Not sure why that change didn't get in, but the chart adjustments were the very final thing adjusted. Which is also why the shifted columns weren't caught, I do believe!)

(Not my chapter, by the by, I just happened to see that alteration when it went in!)

Poop! To the body drop, but no complaints on sensors and pilot drops. Odd that for both body and armor the best is the non-mil/sec based RoadMaster.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Malevolence on (17:13:36/01-14-16)

Wakshaani, your updated stats drop the Crawler from a small drone to a Mini drone, with a rather dramatic reduction to the drone's body (3->1), making it much more limited in terms of what it could mount. The core version could mount an assault rifle, the updated version can mount up to a light pistol, or a machine pistol if you downgrade another stat. There is no other suitable body 3 small drone to replace it - you might be able to gut a Shamus or MCT Tunneler to get close, but even then the addition of Gecko Grips would put you over in points.

The Crawler's traditionally been a Mini drone over the past few editions. I'm not certain why it got enlarged for SR core, but I wanted to put it back where it's supposed to be. You can grab one of the MCT Seven for a drone with 3 mod points, if you need a lil' gunny sidekick. They're fragile (Bod 2 base, modified to 1(3), but handy for modders. (Man, I have a lot of thread to catch up on!)
I still can't load them with both an assault rifle and gecko tips. I suppose that the main problem is that mounting an AR now takes 4 mod points instead of 3. The useful use case with the bod 3 Crawler was that I could drop Bod to 2 for 2(4), then drop another stat to get 5 total mod points. Add 3 armor for 0 mod points and then 4 for the "large" mount and 1 for gecko tips. The end result is a flexible vehicle defense/offense system that has a soak of 8 dice (rather than 2). I just like the idea of a pair of these walking along the outside of an Ares Roadmaster, using the van for cover while returning fire on pursuers.


On an unrelated note, the Matilda has a body of 8 with no parenthetic value. Does it have 8 mod points or some lesser value?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (17:29:12/01-14-16)
... It shouldn't. D'oh.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: adzling on (10:56:20/01-15-16)
A little birdy on another random thread on the internets told me that a drone can now run up to a number of Autosoft's equal to it's Pilot Rating.

That's a big change, I wonder why it didn't make it into the actual written rules in Rigger 5.0?

See here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/40q7dn/rigger_5_pg127_massive_stealth_nerf/cyxycjp
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (16:55:00/01-15-16)
Looks like it got squeezed out by the Pilot chart. Something else for teh errata.

(From the original writing)
***
The Pilot program determines the Rating of the drone as a whole, serves as the primary source of attributes for skill tests, serves as a cap on the highest rating Autosoft the drone can run, and more. Is there any reason that it’s in such high demand? Civilian Pilot programs are generally rating 2 (or, rarely, 1), restricted security Pilots are 3-4, while military-grade Pilots (5-6) are forbidden for general use. Cost and availability is shown on the chart below:

RATING   AVAIL   COST
1      4   100$
2      -   400$
3      8R   1800$
4      12R   3200$
5      16F   10,000$
6      24F   20,000$

(Due to advancements in Pilot programs, a Pilot may now operate as many Autosofts as its Rating, rather than half its Rating (rounded up) as per SR5. )
***

I had to go check to find that out! I was *wondering* why no one was talking about this! It's an important thing!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: falar on (17:02:11/01-15-16)
Could it have been intentionally removed? I could see that being the case if the line editor wanted to keep that rule as it was.

I like it better, because it makes drones able to rock 8 dice on almost anything you'd normally expect from them because a Pilot 4 and 4 Autosofts is really all that you need to cover most things. A combat drone can do with Maneuver, Targeting, SmartSoft and probably Electronic Warfare.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (17:17:25/01-15-16)
Why is it harder to get a Pilot 1 than a Pilot 2  ???
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: falar on (17:19:33/01-15-16)
Why is it harder to find a basic cell phone than a smartphone?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (17:40:53/01-15-16)
Is it? There seem to be a lot of them around...
Incidentally its the same with pilots - vehicles seem to have 1 as a baseline.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: adzling on (19:56:10/01-15-16)
Thanks for posting that Wak.
I agree that this rule makes sense, without it drones are just not good enough imho.
Happy to have it for our table.

We're gonna houserule the "all autosofts are specific to the drone" however, changing it to "only Maneuver are specific to the drone" as otherwise an RCC is pretty useless.

Looks like it got squeezed out by the Pilot chart. Something else for teh errata.

(From the original writing)
***
The Pilot program determines the Rating of the drone as a whole, serves as the primary source of attributes for skill tests, serves as a cap on the highest rating Autosoft the drone can run, and more. Is there any reason that it’s in such high demand? Civilian Pilot programs are generally rating 2 (or, rarely, 1), restricted security Pilots are 3-4, while military-grade Pilots (5-6) are forbidden for general use. Cost and availability is shown on the chart below:

RATING   AVAIL   COST
1      4   100$
2      -   400$
3      8R   1800$
4      12R   3200$
5      16F   10,000$
6      24F   20,000$

(Due to advancements in Pilot programs, a Pilot may now operate as many Autosofts as its Rating, rather than half its Rating (rounded up) as per SR5. )
***

I had to go check to find that out! I was *wondering* why no one was talking about this! It's an important thing!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: KarmaInferno on (02:22:47/01-16-16)
Hm. If drones and vehicles with robot arms limbs can be equipped with cyberlimb mods, can ones with cranial analogues use cyberskull mods?



-k
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Finstersang on (08:25:51/01-16-16)
As per RAW, the Swarm programm allows a drone (even a single one?) to use a "the highest rating of each autosoft running on any Drone or the RCC", which means that you can circumvent the (IMO, needlessly restrictive) "Drones can´t use dormant autosofts when using RCC autosoft"-rule from Core.

By using swarm, I could run some less important (and backup) Autosofts on the Drone(s) and deploy the important stuff (like Targeting) via the RCC. Since that would offer a cheap solution to make Multi-Drone Riggers kinda viable again, that´s obviously not intended.

Just kiddin´. Please leave it that way! Instead of closing that "loophole", I suggest you remove the line from the core rules and make the drones able to use mixed autosoft deployment by default.   

Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (09:12:16/01-16-16)
When running Swarm, and using "the highest rating of each autosoft running on any Drone or the RCC" rule as well as the "Pilot rating is equal to the highest Pilot rating of its member drones, or the Device Rating of the RCC, whichever is higher", what is the highest rating autosoft that can run on a drone?

For example; 4 drones with Pilot 2 slaved to a DR5 RCC running Swarm. Can the drones run Rating 2 or 5 autosofts, since they are now considered to have pilot 5.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Malevolence on (12:18:34/01-16-16)
The drone's Pilot is always ignored as a cap when using autosofts running on the RCC, even without swarm. So in your example, the highest autosoft rating is 5.


Quote from: Rigger 5.0

A Pilot program may not run an autosoft of a higher Rating than itself (meaning a Rating 3 Pilot may run an Autosoft with a Rating of 1, 2, or 3, but not 4 or higher).  When using a rigger command console, the console may run a higher-Rating autosoft and share that with the drone, allowing it to exceed its normal capabilities.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (21:24:22/01-16-16)
The drone's Pilot is always ignored as a cap when using autosofts running on the RCC, even without swarm. So in your example, the highest autosoft rating is 5.


Quote from: Rigger 5.0

A Pilot program may not run an autosoft of a higher Rating than itself (meaning a Rating 3 Pilot may run an Autosoft with a Rating of 1, 2, or 3, but not 4 or higher).  When using a rigger command console, the console may run a higher-Rating autosoft and share that with the drone, allowing it to exceed its normal capabilities.
Ah, but my question isn't about autosofts running on the RCC; Swarm specifically mentions that drones in the swarm can share autosofts running on the drone. But since they are now counting as having a higher pilot rating, can they also run higher rating autosofts directly on the drone?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Malevolence on (00:50:20/01-17-16)
That is a question I have as well, but I'm guessing no, since technically the "Pilot" being used exists on the RCC and the drone is only using it for dice pools. But the rule is unclear enough that it could, RAW, be interpreted either way. Actually, by RAW, it's pretty clear cut.


Quote from: Rigger 5.0 pg 31

 Its Pilot rating is equal to the highest Pilot rating of its member drones, or the Device Rating of the RCC, whichever is higher.
...and...
Quote from: Rigger 5.0 pg 127

The Pilot program determines the Rating of the drone as a whole, serves as the primary source of attributes for skill tests, serves as a cap on the highest rating autosoft the drone can run, and more
So, technically, by RAW, a drone in the swarm gets the best Pilot Rating available and thus Device Rating, attributes, and autosoft cap that is the better of either the RCC DR or the highest pilot in the swarm. Again, probably not RAI, but in the absence of clarification, it's what we've got.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (05:13:51/01-19-16)
Well, the question would be if you can actually install a soft the drone can't actually run, in the hopes you'll later link it to enough processing power.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (05:21:25/01-19-16)
And a followup to that, UnLimiTeD, would be if you can ... I hesitate to use the term "install" so much as run... a program of higher rating than the pilot rating at all.

I.e. can I run a Rating 6 Clearsight program on a Rating 2 Pilot and have it count as Rating 2? And then, later, upgrade the Pilot to 6 or slave the drone to a device rating 6 RCC and make full use of the Rating 6 program.

This would make sense to me at least, but I somehow doubt that this is what was intended.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (12:13:17/01-19-16)
I'd have to check. My understanding that you can either meet the requirements to run it or it's a no-go. Kinda like trying to install WIndows 10 on your TRS-80.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Malevolence on (12:48:41/01-19-16)
Well, the question would be if you can actually install a soft the drone can't actually run, in the hopes you'll later link it to enough processing power.
There is no restriction on what you can install, I think, from this line in Rigger 5.0:
Quote from: Rigger 5.0 pg 127
Remember also that an autosoft is designed for only a single drone; you cannot slot a Clearsoft autosoft designed for an Az- technology Crawler into an Evo Proletarian. (Well, you can; it just doesn’t do anything.)
So apparently you can "slot" whatever you like, it just won't run if the requirements aren't met. The requirements being: sufficient Pilot/RCC rating, appropriate drone/weapon model (not required if running on RCC), proper registration (each autosoft is registered to one and only one device but if the registered device is an RCC then it may be shared per the RCC Sharing rules), and of course a functional processor to run on (i.e. a non-full Matrix and Physical damage track and the drone/RCC is powered on). So you can load a rating 5 autosoft on a Pilot 2 drone and it will just sit there dormant until it joins a swarm on a rating 5 RCC (or with a rating 5 pilot drone as a member), at which point it can run if you choose.

And I wouldn't count it as taking one of the drone's limited autosoft slots unless it was active, much like in a Cyberdeck you can have a copy of every cyberprogram but chose which subset you want to have running at a given moment.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (16:53:54/01-19-16)
That's a fair reading, Malevolence.

And Wakshaani, I can't help but feel your analogy falls a little short. Windows 10 doesn't exactly have the most stringent system requirements, nor is the hardware of a Pilot 2 drone the modern equivalent of an 8 bit microprosessor.

to my mind, a more apt analogy to Running a Rating 6 program on a Pilot 2 drone would be like running a Linux cluster on a single desktop hosting multiple VMs. It probably won't work because the compute resources just aren't there.

Now, slave that Pilot 2 drone to a Rating 6 RCC and you've suddenly got significantly more processing power, even more so if additional drones are added to the mix. This would be similar to running said cluster on a dedicated blade server with sophisticated software running on top to utilize the cumulative computational power of the entire system.

And this is why I like my matrix rules to be grounded in reality, because it makes everything so much easier to draw real life analogies to ;)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (21:20:32/01-19-16)
Well, I personally read it as the drone using that programming power, not having it.
I would assume if you have the spare power on your RCC, it'd be infinitely better to just run your program there.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Sintis on (14:03:59/01-31-16)
ARMADILLO (GROUNDCRAFT)
HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARM PILOT SENS SEATS AVAIL COST
3/4 4 2 13 10 1 2 2/4 — 22,000¥           
Standard Equipment
Armory, cargo pod, drone rack, food truck, rigger
cocoon, off-road transportation, sleeper command
cabin, transport, workshop

Is there any chance this could be clarified?
Is all of the standard equipment included, if they need to be purchased individually an avail/cost?
The fluff talks about moding the truck bed and the cab separately so stats for each please.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: drseltsam83 on (15:43:04/02-09-16)
Both vehicle modifications "Secondary propulsion: amphibious (submersible)" and "Life Support Level 2" come with water and air tightness. I think there should be cost reduction when buying them in combination. (Or something like free Life Support Upgrade Level 1 -> 2)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ClaytonCross on (21:18:54/02-10-16)
I have found a few things missing and unclear still after the release of Rigger5.0

- The rigger bonus for hot-sim! Does the hardware bonus of +1 for using a rig in hot-sim bonus stack with the +2 hot-sim status bonus? Replace it? Replace but miss print? Not sure why any decent rigger would risk possible death by getting physical damage for there drone being shot add destroyed for +1 dice pool when you figure they have about 15 in cold-sim because all there other bonus are still valid. Aaron posted on the rule FAK that they are cumulative but still most GMs would not take that as an answer with out official text.

- Basic rigger equation in one place?
    AR gives  skill dice + attribute dice - net noise[Limit +1 AR] for driving test
    VR gives skill dice + rig rating + attribute dice +2 hot-sim + 1 hot-sim-rig - net noise [Limit +2VR + rig rating](threshold  - rig rating)

- An interval listed for salvage tests?

- For Salvage tests Rigger 5.0 states that you state the "damage" you wish to inflict on vehicle/drone/gear in order to salvage. I make 3 assumption that are not stated any where and I would think they should be.
  1.  max limit is that of the whole condition monitor (should be obvious but I don't believe it is stated)
  2.  This "damage" is run against the condition monitor of a completely full condition monitor (destroyed) because you could just dismantle a full health drone for 100% of the parts -1 for every 2 points of damage it has? (because if it is 1 for 1 then you would get 0 from salvage instead of about 50%)
  3. Choosing to do less damage does not exclude further searches only limit them to search with a total of damage chosen
(so you search a destroyed 8 health drone for 4 damage twice, it means you take twice as long to salvage parts but you are likely to get double the parts, you search the drone once for 8 apply edge you could get the same number of parts in half the time, or you do 1 pass without edge and just get the easy to find and remove parts but the damage you make searching make additional runs pointless)
  4. Possible example for a pass: Mechanic skill + Logic +2 AR +1 working condition + 1 Superior tools [damage inflicted + 2 special work area]

- There is a vehicle upgrade interval listed for 1 hr. but this does not specify drones. It could be inferred but since all the rules for vehicle upgrades and drone upgrades are separated and different it seems counter intuitive. Also I wonder if the smaller size/weigh for upgrading a drone may take half as much time.

- Drone upgrade thresholds? The vehicle upgrade charts are awesome! but drones seem short on charts and lack thresholds listed like the ones vehicles have. There is no part or shop requirements listed either. It looks like you pay and the magically upgrade. Poof!

- Drone pilots are they protected, save-able, random chance of lose when a drone is destroyed? As the most expensive, possibly most internal and protected part, that is also not salvageable, how do you determine if your pilot programs is intact and reusable on the same drone if rebuilt? Matrix damage and electrical damage target the pilot program? Could a matrix attack wipe the pilot and force you to buy a new one or would it be repairable always via matrix damage repair? So rebuild the body then roll for matrix repair to restore the damaged pilot no matter what?

- Can you use salvaged parts to reduce vehicle upgrade costs (like turning a standard vehicle weapon mount into a vehicle turret for +5,000 newyen - part cost at rate of x per part?

- Parts recovered from vehicle = vehicle parts, parts from drones = drone parts, do they further need to be broken down by automotive (land craft), aeronautical, etc?

- Does repairing a drone from 0 health to full include upgrades? Do upgrades get destroyed? (similar to pilot question)

- Upgrade pilots still a repair test or a computer test, threshold, interval?

- drone surprise test pilot x2 [sensors](3) ?

- Drone / vehicle damage track modifiers only handling limit but at what damage to modifier rate? guessing -1 per 3 damage, also does the minim 1 apply before or after rigger/AR/VR limit modifiers?

- Drone avoid sensors evasion, everything else uses stealth. 2 autosofts to cover one skill? or why not meta-humans to avoid with a doge action to make them correspond again?

- Gunnery with a directly connected joystick =  manual with agility?  directly connected deck  =  remote with logic? because a manual joy stick vs a device to device remote? or both logic even though they are not actually wireless remote and the joystick is not really another device but an interface directly into the turret?

- Drone physical attack defense = pilot + autosoft (Maneuvering?) [handling] not just chase but always?

That's all I can think of out of hand. I may find more. Errata appreciated!

Edit: See I knew I would have more.... just needed a break.

- Also drone / vehicle character sheets

- Pictures of all of them

- Actual size estimates

- A speed relation table so you know if your 4 Speed, 4 handling roto drone is actually faster and capable of keeping up with your Mirage bike or Gopher Trunk even though it has lower stats because according to the information trail on vehicle speeds a 4 ground vehicle and a 4 roto drone are moving at completely different speed ratios. That would also need to include drone to foot relation ship for how far the move on a turn (walk, run, sprint) using those 2 stats.

Edit 2: additional equipment wishlist

- RCC options would be nice. (maybe 1 with some sleeze for defense, 1 that has been optimized for autosofts holding double its rating  but can't run cyberware at all and also provides no noise reduction (possibly allowing a full stock of autosofts for more than 1 drone), or 1 that can only run cyberware but gets plus 1 cumulative biofeedback resistance.

- A ground pilot drone with no pre mounted weapons mounts and an increase mod slot volume like a roto-drone. Maybe there is one with a higher body but I know the roto-drone is very customizable to the point I prefer it most by far. Add that its reasonably priced... well before mod, and air born and its just too much fun to pick anything else.

Edit 3: Hopefully the last for a while

- Gunnary says weapons mounted on vehicles take a full action to fire no matter what the fire mode is. Does that include drones and jumped in operations? If so this would greatly weaken riggers by reducing there options.

Edit 4: Hands on Manual override electronic systems?

- Playing the other day we had a case where we needed to disable an enemy transport to prevent his escape. We managed to get on to his transport and wanted to take owner ship but that is a 24 hour test and would take too long. So plan B. Decker sleazed 3 marks to stop notifications and the rigger and decker did a hardware group test to disable electronic controls and the pilot. Since there is no rule for this the change ownership threshold of 24 was used, and an interval of 15 mins. Then we had to risk the wrath of G.O.D.  and notification to the owner if we fail or failed to do it fast enough. We edged our way to success and were able to basically strip the transport to manual operation with not wired/remote control available. Then the rigger used nautical mechanic to lockup manual controls with a hidden release so the transport was not going anywhere but we could use it to escape in a pinch because we knew exactly how to re-enable manual controls. So the question, could there be an official hardware lock down of electronic signals test? This has a number of applications for riggers. You could setup a drone for example to be an auto response body guard while your jumped in and have no risk of it being hacked and killing you while helpless. It would also prevent the rigger from controlling his own drone so you are only allowing it to perform restated commands but it seems like turning of wireless and/or the pilot on vehicles/drones should be a listed test particularly since manual override is already in the game as hardware modification for vehicles. Some rules for that would be nice though.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: boongeebee on (15:41:53/02-12-16)
Does anyone know if and when they will write up an official errata and release it?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (19:25:25/02-12-16)
Does anyone know if and when they will write up an official errata and release it?

Don't hold your breath. Right now errata is one thing that they seemed to have draped the ball on. From what I hear, Pegasus, the German publishers of Shadowrun have been doing quit well when it comes to errata something I contribute to them having more time to work on it since I assume they' have more time to work on fixing errors since they're not also working on creating as much new material. So provided Catalyst isn't  just letting   Pegasus do what ever they want when it comes to errata it would be nice if they translated and published the German Errata if Catalyst doesn't have time to work on it them selves.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ClaytonCross on (20:12:39/02-12-16)
@ boongeebee

As someone who just posted about 20 questions and because this site does not have an up vote option, I have to say +1 to you sir! That is the question of the forum!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: drseltsam83 on (22:06:16/02-12-16)
(Primitive) Drone Armes:
I want a Steel Lynx to have (primitive) arms to assist mechanics in a garage.
Therefore I imagine a multiple-limb arm with very simple tools like drill, grappler, etc on it. Anyway it should be strong enough to e.g. lift an enigne. I aim to STR 12
Calculating the cost:
Drone arm: 7500+6*6,5k = 46,5k
Primitive arm: 1500+6*6,5k = 40,5k
This arm could lift 12*15=180kg (w/o additional check), no matter whether the arm is primitive or not.
I see some problems here:
1. Rulebook says this is a (metahuman) cyberarm-like. So lets say with a length of 1m? That is pretty much short. Ok, I'd say GM could agree on more length/limbs.
2. It is still not capable of lifting huge weights... ok, with a second arm and good checks it could be 500kg, but this leads to the real problem:
3. It costs too much. Lets have a look at the prebuilt drones with drone arms (there is not even one drone with primitive arms!!)
Evo Proletarian and Mule are listed with low weight use cases, so I focus on Mesametric Kodiak which seems to be a heavy machine (at least from my pov). It comes with STR 12 drone arm and it costs 40k. Hmm... Its body is 6 like the steel lynx. So why not buy 2 Kodiaks rip of the arms and plug them into my Lynx? That would save 13k and I could still sell 2 bulldozers.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: drseltsam83 on (15:16:08/02-14-16)
Ramming damage does not take the oponents body into account.

A Roadmaster "crashing" into a trash can would easily put damage on the can, but the Roadmaster would take a lot of damage itself because the target's body is not considered. Damage to the Roadmaster is calculated from its own body, whatever is being rammed.

In a extreme case: Ramming a MCT FlySpy which flys at full speed (3, aircraft triples speed in ramming table = 9) towards the Roadmaster at full speed (3) would easily kill the Roadmaster (and itself as well for obvious reasons) because the collision speed (12) would select a x10 multiplier. That is 180 damage. DEAD. Even w/o aircrafts involved, this makes touching things a deadly game for heavy vehicles.

Got I something wrong? Is the oponents body used for damage calculation? I'm missing a rule for this.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on (13:26:13/02-17-16)
Also dealing with ramming kinda, ram plates done have cost, construction rules, or number of weapon mod slots used. If this has been address, I apologize.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Nefasine on (12:01:25/02-29-16)
@drseltsam83
It may have changed in the print but the digital copy I have, has the steel lynx with a str 12 primitive arm only costing $6,900
To break it down
Cyberarm original cost = 15,000
Str increase to 6 to match Lynx body score = 15,000
Str Increase beyond 6 (to 6 in this case) is Rating*6,500 = 39,000
Running total = 69,000
Primitive arms cost a tenth of the cost = 6,900

if the pilot program was increased above 3 then the cost would rise by another 500 per rating over (up to rating 6) as the arms agility must match the pilot rating

For length I would go off the Vehicle mod articulated arm and do Body*10
which is normally 60cm (decent) but those rules don't allow you to increase the strength of the arm;
so it may be argued that for drones it would be arm Str*10
So 120cm or 1.2m which is honestly fairly large; you would start having issues with tipping over at that point.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: drseltsam83 on (19:36:12/03-02-16)
Hi Nefasine
Rules say, primitive arms cost 10% instead of 50%. With respect to drone arms, rules say, they cost 50%, but upgrades are at full price.
If the intension of the author is that 10% affect upgrades as well, it should be clarified.
Thanks for your notion to arm length.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (09:56:51/03-13-16)
Upgrade costs aren't reduced, no. Primative drone arms don't have fully-functional hands like a normal limb, but instead of a more primative grasper, like a suction cup. Making the arm stronger doesn't care how many fingers the hand has. ::)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Ruffio on (14:53:39/03-18-16)
Maybe I'm missing something here, but on p. 174 under "Vehicle Actions" it says that "each vehicle action describes the threshold, along with the modifiers added".

However, with each and every vehicle test on the following pages, there are only mentioned the modifiers (mostly terrain and speed). The threshold itself (according to the table in the core book, p. 199) is completely left out.

Cheers
Ruffio
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (11:56:34/04-03-16)
Maybe I'm missing something here, but on p. 174 under "Vehicle Actions" it says that "each vehicle action describes the threshold, along with the modifiers added".

However, with each and every vehicle test on the following pages, there are only mentioned the modifiers (mostly terrain and speed). The threshold itself (according to the table in the core book, p. 199) is completely left out.

Cheers
Ruffio

the thresholds are there listed in brackets ( threshold) .  for example the threshold for pulling a bootlegger turn is the terrain modifier plus the speed of the target vehicle  while the threshold for catch up/break away is equal to the terrain modifier plus the difference in speed between the acting vehicle and the target vehicle
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (00:54:44/04-04-16)


   I think I found a error in the Behind Vehicle side bar on page 180, Assuming he's jumped in Shouldn't Thrashers rating 1 control rig reduce the threshold of the drive by/broadside test by 1 from 3 to 2 as well as increase the handling limit of his car ifrom 5 to 6 allowing him to count all 6 hits? Or is Thrasher not actually jumped in during this action?
   

  Also does any one else find its odd that the Rigger cocoon is listed under power train mods? I mean it does';t change how the vehicle moves f hows its  controlled, it just provides protection for the Rigger wether its moving or not. To me it makes more sense for it to be a protection mod.

     
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: tequila on (08:21:25/04-07-16)
For the PDF Bookmarks: Building the Perfect Beast>Modification List is missing Body (p. 163).  It should be between Weapons and Electromagnetic
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Major Doom on (14:12:44/04-07-16)
Under Special Tires, page 153, in the description it says changing tires requires Automotive Mechanic + Logic [Logic] (4, 5 minutes) Extended Test.  I'm guessing the Limit is supposed to be Mental, not Logic.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: tequila on (14:23:43/04-07-16)
Horizon-Doble Revolution, p42 - the text mentions optional sidecars but doesn't list a cost or give a page reference to Increased Seating on p164; the text also mentions "Lounge option offers a secondary bit of safety in the form of an optional canopy and seat belt system." but doesn't specify any crunch related to the seat belt (PSS?) or the canopy.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: welldressedgent on (21:33:48/04-09-16)

Minotaur is missing entirely from page 53.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: PiXeL01 on (03:18:03/04-10-16)

Minotaur is missing entirely from page 53.

The Minotaur is mentioned in a comment  on p. 72 with a stat box in p. 73 so the reference in the back should refer here instead.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Ruffio on (10:53:02/04-11-16)
Maybe I'm missing something here, but on p. 174 under "Vehicle Actions" it says that "each vehicle action describes the threshold, along with the modifiers added".

However, with each and every vehicle test on the following pages, there are only mentioned the modifiers (mostly terrain and speed). The threshold itself (according to the table in the core book, p. 199) is completely left out.

Cheers
Ruffio

the thresholds are there listed in brackets ( threshold) .  for example the threshold for pulling a bootlegger turn is the terrain modifier plus the speed of the target vehicle  while the threshold for catch up/break away is equal to the terrain modifier plus the difference in speed between the acting vehicle and the target vehicle

I know that. However, p. 173 says that terrain and speed are used as modifiers to the actual threshold (which is between 1 and 4 according to the table in SR5, p. 199), so it makes no sense that they are the only constituents of the thresholds as given in all the new vehicle actions.
The way it is now, maneuvers like Crazy Ivan, Cut Off, or PIT would have a threshold of 0 in Open terrain, making it feasible for any unexperienced driver …

Cheers
Ruffio
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (20:00:27/04-11-16)
The way I'm reading the rules terrain/speed are not used as modifiers to the threshold but used as the actual threshold .
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: bull30548 on (01:08:32/04-20-16)
Quick Question: Retrans Unit is in vehicle modifications but is actually says drones in the text description and example.  Does this mean a Retrans Unit can be installed on drones or in this case when they say drone they mean remote piloted full size vehicles?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: RiggerBob on (17:48:11/04-20-16)
The vehicle modification rules are meant for all vehicles. The drone modification chapter has optional rules for easier (sort of^^) drone modification...

So i see no problems using modifications from the vehicle mod chapter with drones. (Not even when using the drone modification rules, but that may not be 100% RAW).

Btw... If i remember correctly, the newest Missions FAQ has a complete list of vehicle modifications allowed in drones.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Banshee on (11:12:48/04-22-16)
The vehicle modification rules are meant for all vehicles. The drone modification chapter has optional rules for easier (sort of^^) drone modification...

So i see no problems using modifications from the vehicle mod chapter with drones. (Not even when using the drone modification rules, but that may not be 100% RAW).

Btw... If i remember correctly, the newest Missions FAQ has a complete list of vehicle modifications allowed in drones.

yes, we decided to use the drone modification chapter for Missions so we spent some time and effort on clarifying how the two chapters work together ... at least how we see it anyway
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Sphinx on (18:34:14/04-28-16)
Page 3, change “SAAB” to “Saab”
Page 5, change “Derek” to “drek”
Page 6, change “.029” to “0.029”
Page 7, change “near-do-wells” to “ne’er-do-wells”
Page 8, change “Anderson’s” to “Andersons’”
Page 8, capitalize “Sikorsky-Bell Microskimmer” and “Horizon Flying Eye”
Page 9, change “break” to “brake”
Page 11, change “2.7 million” to “five million”
Page 13, change “which side of the bracelet your on” to “which side of the bracelet you’re on”
Page 13, change “Mariah’s” to “Mariahs”
Page 13, change “a Osprey” to “an Osprey”
Page 14, change “sixth generation” to “fifth generation”
Page 14, change “feel like your sittin’” to “feel like you’re sittin’”
Page 15, change “Probably.” to “Probably not.”
Page 15, hyphenate “jack-of-all-trades”
Page 15, change “extract” to “extraction”
Page 17, change “data steal” (two words) to “datasteal” (one word)
Page 18, hyphenate “up-to-date”
Page 18, hyphenate “Stick-n-Shock” (p. 434, SR5)
Page 19, change “is available” to “are available”
Page 20, change “opulence to share” to “opulence to spare
Page 20, change “This categories” to “This category
Page 21, change “DaVinci” to “da Vinci” or “Leonardo da Vinci”
Page 22, change “remark” to “remarkable”
Page 22, hyphenate “lighter-than-air”
Page 25, change “andmake” to “and make” (insert space)
Page 33, change “allure or discarded” to “allure of discarded”
Page 33, change “trip studio” to “trid studio”
Page 37, change “the doors open,” to “the doors opened,”
Page 37, change “which one stray bullet” to “with one stray bullet”
Page 52, hyphenate “flip-up” and “rear-facing”
Page 78, change “further and further” to “farther and farther”
Page 80, change “moments notice” to “moment’s notice”
Page 80, hyphenate “one-way”
Page 87, change “out their” to “out there
Page 89, change “owners” to “owner’s” (possessive) … three times
Page 89, change “the boats engines” to “the boat’s engines”
Page 89 change “one up” and “out do” to “one-up” and “outdo”
Page 103, hyphenate “cat-and-mouse”
Page 103, change “carries” to “carrying”
Page 104, remove the space from “DangerSensei” (again on page 107)
Page 107, change “a elf” to “an elf”
Page 114, change “wrapped” to “rapped”
Page 114, hyphenate “Stick-n-Shock”
Page 151, change “obscured” to “obscurity”
Page 151, change “[Logic]” to “[Mental]” … twice here, again on p. 152, 153, 159, 163
Page 151, change “determines” to “determine”
Page 152, change “are assumed to be not be reusable” to “are not reusable”
Page 152, change “her team” to “his team” (Rigger X is a man … p. 54, Street Legends)
Page 152, change “can be command” to “can be commanded”
Page 153, change “a Automotive” to “an Automotive”
Page 153, change “affect” to “effect”
Page 156, change “maybe your always sitting” to “maybe you’re always sitting”
Page 157, change “highly maneuverability” to “highly maneuverable”
Page 163, change “awant” to “want”
Page 163, change “[Intuition]” to “[Mental]” … twice
Page 163, change “The apply” to “Then apply”
Page 164, change “annoying or, in the back” to “annoying ork in the back”
Page 164, change “no riggers likes” to “no rigger likes” or “no riggers like
Page 164, change “extra think people” to just “extra people”
Page 165, change “snowaremoval” to “snow-removal”
Page 166, change “GridGuidesystem” to “GridGuide system” (insert space)
Page 168, Retrans example doesn’t add up; make distances consistent with Noise table on p. 231, SR5
Page 168, change “massed produced” to “mass-produced”
Page 168, change “determining” to “determines” and “extensiveness” to “extent”
Page 170, change “theses images” to “these images”
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: KarmaInferno on (11:00:15/05-06-16)
The anthro drones don't seem to have a size category assigned.

Based on other books, most should probably be Large with the exception of those noted to be smaller like the Little Buddy.


-k
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Hobbes on (22:24:45/05-08-16)
I don't think that this will show correctly, as I don't know how to format forumcode to show tabs like a document. Hrm. Let's try this button here...

MICRO DRONE      HANDL   SPEED   ACCEL   BODY   ARMOR   PILOT   SEN   AVAIL   COST
Shiawase Kanmushi      4              0G       0              0               0              2             3              8           1000$
S-B Microskimmer      3       1R       1              0                0              2              2             6        1000$

Going through all 17 pages slowly, but I didn't see the answer, is it safe to guess the 0 Body is 0 Mod points?  0 (0) ?

I like my little spider drones, and Missions rules say they can have a max realistic feature of 4, but it seems that means taking a - 1 to each stat with a number.... and unless I can take a -1 Availability I'm still short.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: SichoPhiend on (21:04:25/05-09-16)
I don't think that this will show correctly, as I don't know how to format forumcode to show tabs like a document. Hrm. Let's try this button here...

MICRO DRONE      HANDL   SPEED   ACCEL   BODY   ARMOR   PILOT   SEN   AVAIL   COST
Shiawase Kanmushi      4              0G       0              0               0              2             3              8           1000$
S-B Microskimmer      3       1R       1              0                0              2              2             6        1000$

Going through all 17 pages slowly, but I didn't see the answer, is it safe to guess the 0 Body is 0 Mod points?  0 (0) ?

I like my little spider drones, and Missions rules say they can have a max realistic feature of 4, but it seems that means taking a - 1 to each stat with a number.... and unless I can take a -1 Availability I'm still short.

Yes a BOD of 0 would mean 0 MOD points, but I was just looking things over and unless I missed something (And please point out if I did) Realistic features does not have a MOD point cost, at least, I see no such cost is listed.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (10:22:31/05-10-16)
The anthro drones don't seem to have a size category assigned.

Based on other books, most should probably be Large with the exception of those noted to be smaller like the Little Buddy.


-k

D'oh! They DON'T have a size listed, do they?

I'd need to grab my notes, but the Little Buddy should be Small, the Juan, iDoll, and Secretary should be Medium (The sec is human-sized, just much heavier than you'd expect), with the construction bot being Large. The Juggernaught would fall into Huge, if only just. It's right on the cutting edge between "A really big large and a really small Huge", and I tend to default to the latter.)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (10:24:09/05-10-16)
I don't think that this will show correctly, as I don't know how to format forumcode to show tabs like a document. Hrm. Let's try this button here...

MICRO DRONE      HANDL   SPEED   ACCEL   BODY   ARMOR   PILOT   SEN   AVAIL   COST
Shiawase Kanmushi      4              0G       0              0               0              2             3              8           1000$
S-B Microskimmer      3       1R       1              0                0              2              2             6        1000$

Going through all 17 pages slowly, but I didn't see the answer, is it safe to guess the 0 Body is 0 Mod points?  0 (0) ?

I like my little spider drones, and Missions rules say they can have a max realistic feature of 4, but it seems that means taking a - 1 to each stat with a number.... and unless I can take a -1 Availability I'm still short.

It should be a 0 (0) Body yes, so troubled to modify.

As a side-note, remember that while you get a point for lowering *A* stat, if you lower more stats, you don't get more points! You can only get +1 no matter how much worse you make the drone. That was very much by design.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (10:38:57/05-10-16)
D'oh! They DON'T have a size listed, do they?

I'd need to grab my notes, but the Little Buddy should be Small, the Juan, iDoll, and Secretary should be Medium (The sec is human-sized, just much heavier than you'd expect), with the construction bot being Large. The Juggernaught would fall into Huge, if only just. It's right on the cutting edge between "A really big large and a really small Huge", and I tend to default to the latter.)

I think in this cases you'd do better by assigning them metatype sizes:

Little Buddy, Bust-A-Move: Gnome/Pixie
iDoll, Juan, Secretary, Duellist, etc.: Human/Elf
Kenchiku-Kikai/Sparring Drone: Ork
Juggernaught: Troll/Minotaur

Makes it easier especially in regard to the Realistic Features
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (12:12:04/05-10-16)
Pretty true. (Well, minus the Pixie.)

I should see if I can find the (really bad) sketch I did for the Juan. I'm pretty sure I stuck my stab at a cover up. Which was super-bad. :)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Hobbes on (20:19:14/05-10-16)

As a side-note, remember that while you get a point for lowering *A* stat, if you lower more stats, you don't get more points! You can only get +1 no matter how much worse you make the drone. That was very much by design.

I read that, knew it, and then promptly forgot it as soon as I went out into the weeds.  Sheesh.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Coyote on (20:33:53/05-10-16)
Pretty true. (Well, minus the Pixie.)

I should see if I can find the (really bad) sketch I did for the Juan. I'm pretty sure I stuck my stab at a cover up. Which was super-bad. :)

What about the Ares Duelist? Also a Medium? The picture at the back of the Rigger 5.0 book shows them as about the size of the elf leading them, though they'd certainly be heavier. Although, most Medium drones have a Body of 3 and the Duelist has a 4.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Hobbes on (20:42:43/05-10-16)

Yes a BOD of 0 would mean 0 MOD points, but I was just looking things over and unless I missed something (And please point out if I did) Realistic features does not have a MOD point cost, at least, I see no such cost is listed.

I gotta quit drinking at lunch.  Thanks!  Spider Drones Away! 
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: KarmaInferno on (17:11:57/05-12-16)
I got into a discussion with Mathias from Herolab and we noticed that all the drones have their drone mod slots appropriately reduced for any modifications that come standard 'stock' equipped.

Except anthroforms. Do those really get full Body in mod slots on top of getting arms and legs and other mods that would normally cost slots?

Also, if a drone comes standard with mods listed in the optional Drone Mod rules, does that mean those drones can't use the regular Vehicle Mods rules (and therefore can't be modded) if your GM doesn't want to use the optional Drone Mod rules?

Honestly, I think we both came to the conclusion that it was a mistake to create a whole seperate set of construction rules for drones ON TOP of the regular vehicle mod rules. It would have been better if the drone mods were just folded into the regular mods and simply a note added "Unlike other vehicles, drones only get one pool of mod slots equal to their body."


-k
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (00:49:16/07-02-16)
Question I asked in another thread but asking here in the hopes of getting a official response . under the optional drone modding rules does upgrading a drones pilot rating use up mod points? The German edition has a table that suggests that pilot upgrades are free but I'm wondering if that was the original intention.

  http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=24394.msg454569#msg454569
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (22:37:38/07-02-16)
As with any drone, first one's free, but you start coting slots after that. (1 point is essentially just better software, but more than that, you have to start adding bigger parts for processing, more onboard memory, etc etc etc.) It's the Golden Rule of DroneStats. :)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (23:41:15/07-02-16)
OK  thats what I though,I just wanted conformation. on another note when using the drone mod rules should the extra three weapon slots for the roto-drone  be count as the drone having a body of 7 for modding?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (23:47:16/07-02-16)
No, they count as "You have three extra points that can only be spent on weapons" ... it's a special power for just that drone. :)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (00:05:56/07-03-16)
. It would have been better if the drone mods were just folded into the regular mods and simply a note added "Unlike other vehicles, drones only get one pool of mod slots equal to their body."


-k


that would be horrible in my opinion. it would make it impossible to give all but the largest of drone any decent mods. a simple +1 speed boost cost 5 mod points under the standard rules. And good luck giving drone any decent extra armor which some already feel are to fragile ,just giving a roto-drone 1 extra point of additional armor will cost 2 of its 4  body points.  under the optional drone modding rule I can add 9 extra points of armor for the same price . if you count the 3 extra points intended for weapon slots you'll even have enough room for a large drone weapon mount and you'll still be able to up all its other stats by 1  point for free. I know what rules I 'll be using for drone modification
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (00:13:15/07-03-16)
No, they count as "You have three extra points that can only be spent on weapons" ... it's a special power for just that drone. :)

that really gimps the roto-drone, I think the points should carry over I mean  the core rule book gives it three plus to its body for modding only so I think that  should apply when using the optional  rules.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (08:42:13/07-03-16)
It has the usual Body level for modding, then gets three points that can only be spent on weapon mounts on top of that. That's kind of the opposite of gimped. :) It's the smallest thing that can mount a heavy weapon mount, for instance, or a couple of smaller ones. Alternatively, you can amp up some other features and still have three points left over for a weapon, where other drones can't. It's still a crazy-good buy. You just can't stick *everything* in there at once.

Checks and balances.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (10:36:42/07-03-16)
So under the the standard modding rules a roto-drone gets 7 weapon modding slots but when using the drone modding rules it gets 3 extra points that can  only be spent on weapon mounts?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (11:31:28/07-03-16)
So under the the standard modding rules a roto-drone gets 7 weapon modding slots but when using the drone modding rules it gets 3 extra points that can  only be spent on weapon mounts?

Not quite sure I follow, so let me replace that with a statement.

**
Drones get a number of mod points equal to their Body. In the case of the MCT Rotor Drone, it gets an additional 3 points that may only be spent on weapon mounts.
**

Hopefully, that clears it up for you as the wording of your question throws me a bit off.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (11:58:35/07-03-16)
Yeah I think we're on the same page so to speak

Page  155 core vehicle modification side bar reads   "MCT-roto drone: Three extra weapon modification slots " since the drone has a body of 4 that gives it a total 7 slots  for any of the weapon mods  found in the chapter building the perfect beast.


  When using the optional drone only modification rules starting on page 122 the extra three points can  only be used on drone weapons mounts. .
 
 
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Kiirnodel on (13:54:10/07-03-16)
Well it is still 3 extra weapon modification slots, there just isn't a whole lot that counts as that other than weapon mounts. Other than that little discrepancy I don't see what is "gimped" about the Roto-drone...
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (14:29:48/07-03-16)
yeah after thinking about it I retract my statement, having 3 mod points even if it is just for weapon mounts is pretty good.  you could stick a large mount on a roto for 4 points and still have 3 points for other mods. and with attribute up grades being so cheap those 3 remaining points can do a fair amont.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: KarmaInferno on (08:35:05/07-04-16)
. It would have been better if the drone mods were just folded into the regular mods and simply a note added "Unlike other vehicles, drones only get one pool of mod slots equal to their body."


that would be horrible in my opinion. it would make it impossible to give all but the largest of drone any decent mods. a simple +1 speed boost cost 5 mod points under the standard rules. And good luck giving drone any decent extra armor which some already feel are to fragile ,just giving a roto-drone 1 extra point of additional armor will cost 2 of its 4  body points.  under the optional drone modding rule I can add 9 extra points of armor for the same price . if you count the 3 extra points intended for weapon slots you'll even have enough room for a large drone weapon mount and you'll still be able to up all its other stats by 1  point for free. I know what rules I 'll be using for drone modification
Okay. Add "the first point of increase, or first three points for armor, costs zero mod slots. Additional increases beyond this are calculated as normal". Maybe one or two other tweaks. Suddenly we go from an entire chapter down to one extra paragraph needed for drones, and effectively get the same results without creating yet another system on top of a game that already has a massive number of rules systems.

From a design efficiency point of view, that whole optional rule chapter feels like an exercise in padding the word count.


-k
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: adzling on (14:05:35/07-04-16)
This is a great example of what the Line Editor should be doing.
The fact that he did not recognize this is just another example of how poorly he is doing,

. It would have been better if the drone mods were just folded into the regular mods and simply a note added "Unlike other vehicles, drones only get one pool of mod slots equal to their body."


that would be horrible in my opinion. it would make it impossible to give all but the largest of drone any decent mods. a simple +1 speed boost cost 5 mod points under the standard rules. And good luck giving drone any decent extra armor which some already feel are to fragile ,just giving a roto-drone 1 extra point of additional armor will cost 2 of its 4  body points.  under the optional drone modding rule I can add 9 extra points of armor for the same price . if you count the 3 extra points intended for weapon slots you'll even have enough room for a large drone weapon mount and you'll still be able to up all its other stats by 1  point for free. I know what rules I 'll be using for drone modification
Okay. Add "the first point of increase, or first three points for armor, costs zero mod slots. Additional increases beyond this are calculated as normal". Maybe one or two other tweaks. Suddenly we go from an entire chapter down to one extra paragraph needed for drones, and effectively get the same results without creating yet another system on top of a game that already has a massive number of rules systems.

From a design efficiency point of view, that whole optional rule chapter feels like an exercise in padding the word count.


-k
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (20:15:10/07-04-16)
. It would have been better if the drone mods were just folded into the regular mods and simply a note added "Unlike other vehicles, drones only get one pool of mod slots equal to their body."


that would be horrible in my opinion. it would make it impossible to give all but the largest of drone any decent mods. a simple +1 speed boost cost 5 mod points under the standard rules. And good luck giving drone any decent extra armor which some already feel are to fragile ,just giving a roto-drone 1 extra point of additional armor will cost 2 of its 4  body points.  under the optional drone modding rule I can add 9 extra points of armor for the same price . if you count the 3 extra points intended for weapon slots you'll even have enough room for a large drone weapon mount and you'll still be able to up all its other stats by 1  point for free. I know what rules I 'll be using for drone modification
Okay. Add "the first point of increase, or first three points for armor, costs zero mod slots. Additional increases beyond this are calculated as normal". Maybe one or two other tweaks. Suddenly we go from an entire chapter down to one extra paragraph needed for drones, and effectively get the same results without creating yet another system on top of a game that already has a massive number of rules systems.

From a design efficiency point of view, that whole optional rule chapter feels like an exercise in padding the word count.


-k

yeah I don't see hows that gets the same results . with the drone modding rules I could increase a roto-drones speed and acceleration by two each for only 2 mod points .with your idea  I could only increases  the acceleration by two by using the one free upgrade then speading all 4 of the drones power train mod points  and I could only increase the speed by 1 using the free upgrade since any thing over that would cost 5 mod points/slots.

The drone modding rule aren't that long and are not that complicated and gives players some more  options for customizing their drones.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: KarmaInferno on (21:50:05/07-04-16)
Clarification: Free first point per vehicle attribute (or three for Armor).
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Kiirnodel on (01:28:57/07-05-16)
It probably would have been easier to have the modding drones be an optional set of rules that comes after the rest of the modding rules. Possibly mentioned in the beginning of the chapter (by using a side-bar or some-such), but then just use a couple of pages to note the differences and maybe have an extra chart noting the different costs.

I always found it odd that the "optional" rules for modding drones came before the full rules, which the drone rules partially use...
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (17:19:24/07-05-16)
It probably would have been easier to have the modding drones be an optional set of rules that comes after the rest of the modding rules. Possibly mentioned in the beginning of the chapter (by using a side-bar or some-such), but then just use a couple of pages to note the differences and maybe have an extra chart noting the different costs.

I always found it odd that the "optional" rules for modding drones came before the full rules, which the drone rules partially use...

 It probaly would make a bit more sense to have the drone modding rules afyer the main rules. At the very least it would make it easier to compare the two rules sections if they were closer together instead of having them separated by both the vehicle and drone chapters.

 on another note what is the range of motion suppose to be on drone weapon mounts? Fixed,flexible or turreted?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Duellist_D on (01:14:05/07-07-16)
FYI, one small bit of errata that made it into the German Rigger 5:

Drone Cyberarms now have a capacity limit of BOD x 2 and the possibility to give them Synthetic arms is explicitly mentioned, with those having a cap of BODx1 for Drones.

And since there was occasionally the discussion whether only the UP cost for armor would 1 UP for the first 3 Armor and then 1 UP for each additional, its now explicitly stated as "1 UP for each 3 Points of Armor"
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (08:35:03/07-07-16)
on another note what is the range of motion suppose to be on drone weapon mounts? Fixed,flexible or turreted?

Fixed in virtually all cases. The new Ares micro-tanks have turrets, for instance,and the Steel Lynx,  but I don't think any others do. Drones, however, have a *vastly* better turn radius, with anything in the Bod 4 or less side of things being about as nimble as a metahuman, so the fixed position isn't a big deal. A pocket-sized quad-copter can turn to face where it wants to shoot a wee bit more easily than a van. :D
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (10:32:41/07-07-16)
 OK so  when using the standard "Building the perfect beast" rules drones can have turrets with the full range of motion but when using the optional drone only rules the turrets are fixed,correct?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (11:32:49/07-07-16)
I couldn't tell you about the vehicle rules as I didn't work on 'em. :) Under the drone mod rules, drone weapons are fixed, but they're so mobile that it doesn't really matter. I should make a note about turrets for larger ones for the errata list, tho.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (11:53:44/07-07-16)
Since rules for drone combat "are the same as those for regular flesh-and-blood characters", (see page 270 of SR5), the question about weapon mount mobility is pretty much moot; simply assume they can point their weapon in the desired direction as normal metahumans.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (12:22:46/07-07-16)
Since rules for drone combat "are the same as those for regular flesh-and-blood characters", (see page 270 of SR5), the question about weapon mount mobility is pretty much moot; simply assume they can point their weapon in the desired direction as normal metahumans.

Pretty much, yeah. I mean, if you've strapped a gun into your Festo Pigeon, and somebody is holding it in their hands where it can't turn, and you want to remotely fire it at a guy off to one side, well, poke your GM and see what's what. The big drones what *need* turrets are in the minority by a mile.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (00:43:37/07-08-16)
I couldn't tell you about the vehicle rules as I didn't work on 'em. :) Under the drone mod rules, drone weapons are fixed, but they're so mobile that it doesn't really matter. I should make a note about turrets for larger ones for the errata list, tho.

 Ok in that case I think it would be safe to a assume that if you're only using the standard modding rules then a drone can take what even weapon mounts that have the slots for.

 on yet another note can we also assume that all the new features added to some drones in the 'core vehicle modification' side bar on page 155 always carry over regardless of whether  or not the rules being used would allow it?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Raven2049 on (10:40:11/08-17-16)
I posted this in the SRM FAQ thread as well but i was going to add it regardless:

Question on Drone Upgrades in Rigger 5

Specifically Armor: Are we paying for the difference in armor, or are we paying for the total end amount of armor? the wording in the Armor section states "Cost equals the upgraded Armor multiplied by the drone’s Body, then multiplied by 200." But the Example shows total amount "Increasing to an Armor of 15 on a Body 3 drone would cost (15 x 3) x 200, or 45 x 200, or 9,000 nuyen." Which is correct?

EX: Upgrading a Roto-Drone to Armor 16 from Armor 8: Am i paying total cost: (4 x 16) x 200 to equal 12,800?
or am i paying the upgraded armor cost: [4 x (16 - 8)]  x 200 to equal 6,400?

Also, if you are purchasing upgrades for your drone, specifically in the case of Sensors and Pilot Programs, is this a situation where you pull the old one out and put a new one in? so you can get 20-30% of the value of the part being pulled out by selling it back? or is this more of a case of "expansion" where you add to existing capabilities? which could imply that you are upgrading the armor as in my 2nd example above. Leading back to that example as well, if it is a matter of complete replacement, do we get 20-30% of the value of the armor being sold back if we are doing the "total cost" example?

Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Finstersang on (14:10:10/08-26-16)
Page 29: Not actuall errata, but you should really rethink the part where drones with filled condition monitor being beyond repair. This one sentence is currently the biggest nail in the Rigger´s coffin.

Page 30: Confuse Pilot uses Attack as the Limit (best game mechanic ever *choke*), yet the highest Attack value RCCs can have is 1 (unless RCCs can take Kommlink dongles, which isn´t clearly stated anywhere). So yeah, it´s not only a Rigger Action, but the noise reduction Bonus seems pretty pointless if the highest possibly number of hits with a RCC is one. Also, it´s not clear what happens after the Drone´s Pilot test.

Page 30: Target Device looks actually usefull (a rare sight in this mess of a book) BUT: How does this fit with the Trace Icon Matrix Action, which needs at least 2 Marks on the target just to get the location? If this Action offers an attack bonus, its obviously needing the location, isn´t it? Also, it could be more clear what this means for targeting held, worn or implanted devices. Is the Attack Bonus also applied on attacks against the user holding the device?

Page 124: No prices for the weapon mounts given. Just in case you forgot...

Page 128: Horizon Nozquito: Are you really sure that these things can stack their modificators that high? I mean, it´s still just loud noises and strobe lights. If Flash-Packs don´t stack, why would the Nozquito?

Page 140: The Renraku LEBD-2 has a body of 3 and only a Mini Weapon Mount holding a Taser installed, yet no Modification Slots are left without any apparent reason. Makes this pricy drone quite less valuabe. As a police logistician, I´d want the option to install additional options like Tear Gas or Strobe lights....

Page 125-126: Thanks for pointing out that drone legs are basically useless. Fortunately, you also left out the pricing #20Buckswellspent

Page 1-194: No usable vehicle movement rates, no clarification if remote Gunnery uses Logic or Agility, no comprehensive tables for modifications and basic rigger tests... 
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (18:55:03/08-26-16)


Page 30: Confuse Pilot uses Attack as the Limit (best game mechanic ever *choke*), yet the highest Attack value RCCs can have is 1 (unless RCCs can take Kommlink dongles, which isn´t clearly stated anywhere). So yeah, it´s not only a Rigger Action, but the noise reduction Bonus seems pretty pointless if the highest possibly number of hits with a RCC is one. Also, it´s not clear what happens after the Drone´s Pilot test.





Where did you get your book from? according to mine confuse pilot uses data processing as the limit.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Finstersang on (07:48:02/08-27-16)
Where did you get your book from? according to mine confuse pilot uses data processing as the limit.

It´s the pdf version. It may have been fixed in the printed and the localized versions.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (08:59:51/08-27-16)
Where did you get your book from? according to mine confuse pilot uses data processing as the limit.

It´s the pdf version. It may have been fixed in the printed and the localized versions.

I have the printed north American edition and it clearly says it uses data process so your PDF is wrong.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Finstersang on (15:15:58/08-28-16)
P. 129: The Aztechnology Hedgehog ist designed for intercepting and decrypting communication, but there are no rules for achieving this. The Snoop Matrix action needs 1 Mark and a Sleaze Attribute, yet the Hedgehog has no Sleaze and thus, no means of getting any Marks. That being said: Rules for non-hacking-short-range Signal Interception would be cool  8)   
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (00:42:25/08-29-16)
maybe use pilot+ EW  limited by sensors? that might work until we get something more official.  Also how does this sound for what happens after a successful confuse pilot . on a simple failure the drone losses its next initiative pass  ,if it passes but glitches it drops one spot  and if it critically glitches the pilot crashes program and reboots  as normal.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Capnloco on (16:35:21/09-05-16)
I didn't see this mentioned elsewhere in the thread:

Pg. 177
"Pickup" Maneuver - No roll for the maneuver is listed. The description clearly requires a roll "The [unwilling] target must get more net hits than the pilot . . . "
It may be as simple a Vehicle Skill + Reaction [Handling] (Terrain + Speed)
Rigger 5.0 , First Printing

This does note a derivative question because Pickup is listed with 'Optimum Speed 2' as a condition but no other maneuvers have an Optimum Speed condition nor is it defined with mechanical impact in the chapter. 
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: KarmaInferno on (01:18:04/09-06-16)
Where did you get your book from? according to mine confuse pilot uses data processing as the limit.

It´s the pdf version. It may have been fixed in the printed and the localized versions.

I have the printed north American edition and it clearly says it uses data process so your PDF is wrong.
Would depend on the publication date of each book, really.

By nature, the PDFs are easier to update.


-k
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Li on (21:18:08/09-24-16)
The Transys steed is designed for indoor work, but could you provide some clarification on whether that includes being able to use stairs or not? Part of the main reason paraplegic sucks is because you can't, and it suffers from nebulous wording. Just a bit of clarity would be nice.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (21:21:19/09-24-16)
What are the costs for drone weapon mounts? I think they were lists somewhere on the forum but my search-fu is weak. or am I wrong and the prices were never posted.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (09:19:30/09-25-16)
The German version has them:

Mikro: 500
Mini: 600
Small: 750
Standard: 1500
Large: 2500
Huge: 3000
Heavy: 4000
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (13:21:14/09-25-16)
Great,Thanks Jack.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (23:22:47/09-25-16)
Does the German book also have the thresholds for drone modifications as well as the tools/skills needed? 
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: RiggerBob on (12:11:39/09-29-16)
What are the costs for drone weapon mounts? I think they were lists somewhere on the forum but my search-fu is weak. or am I wrong and the prices were never posted.

The forum answer your were looking for is MP x 800 ¥, see: http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22807.msg421443#msg421443
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (11:04:56/09-30-16)
OK so which prices should I be using? the ones from the german rule book or the 800*MP formula? personally the prices from the German book seem more reasonable, using 800*mp means it  to mount a weapon mount large enough for a assault rifle costs 4000. it only cost 1500 to mount a assault rifle to a vehicle .
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (17:45:17/09-30-16)

@ Thresholds
For every upgrade to a drone you need to pass a relevant skill+Logic [mental] (4, 1 hour) test

@ Prices
Well, I know which ones I use - the ones who have actually been published in a rule book  ;)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: solracdes on (09:31:48/10-01-16)
So where does one acquire all these excellent individual errata points in a consolidated file?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (09:42:36/10-01-16)
https://www.pegasusshop.de/index.php?thisoperationid=1&Action-Display-Themengebiet=Shadowrun&Produkttyp=Rollenspiele#articleform-3
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (00:13:42/10-04-16)
Looks like it got squeezed out by the Pilot chart. Something else for teh errata.

(From the original writing)
***
The Pilot program determines the Rating of the drone as a whole, serves as the primary source of attributes for skill tests, serves as a cap on the highest rating Autosoft the drone can run, and more. Is there any reason that it’s in such high demand? Civilian Pilot programs are generally rating 2 (or, rarely, 1), restricted security Pilots are 3-4, while military-grade Pilots (5-6) are forbidden for general use. Cost and availability is shown on the chart below:

RATING   AVAIL   COST
1      4   100$
2      -   400$
3      8R   1800$
4      12R   3200$
5      16F   10,000$
6      24F   20,000$

(Due to advancements in Pilot programs, a Pilot may now operate as many Autosofts as its Rating, rather than half its Rating (rounded up) as per SR5. )
***


I had to go check to find that out! I was *wondering* why no one was talking about this! It's an important thing!

 OK so just to make sure  the number of programs a drone can run is equal to its pilot rating ,right?  This is official and was just left out of the book and will appear in errated  re-prints of rigger 5?  I'm asking because I was planing to upgrade the pilot on a  few  my drones to 5 so  i could run 3 instead of 2 . If can actually already run 3 with out spending  mod points then that would be great.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: hXc Mike on (23:42:06/12-13-16)
Copy-Paste to try and get 'em all in one location.

SlashXVI 3 points 7 hours ago*

...

 •The Yamaha Kabuyara (p.44) might have a wrong statline. As it is right now it is as good or worse than the Suzuki Mirage (core) in every category while beeing twice as expensive and not rocking any upgrades to warrant the price difference.

...

Has a ruling/fix been made on this? Skimmed through 20 pages of thread and found no other mention.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: SlashXVI on (06:07:17/12-15-16)
Copy-Paste to try and get 'em all in one location.

SlashXVI 3 points 7 hours ago*

...

 •The Yamaha Kabuyara (p.44) might have a wrong statline. As it is right now it is as good or worse than the Suzuki Mirage (core) in every category while beeing twice as expensive and not rocking any upgrades to warrant the price difference.

...

Has a ruling/fix been made on this? Skimmed through 20 pages of thread and found no other mention.

Looking at the german pdf I have aquired by now: the statblock for the Kaburaya is different from what was in the english one. Compared to the Mirage it now has one additional acceleration and two less armor, all other stats are identical, including the price(!!!)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: on (13:20:50/12-15-16)
Copy-Paste to try and get 'em all in one location.

SlashXVI 3 points 7 hours ago*

...

 •The Yamaha Kabuyara (p.44) might have a wrong statline. As it is right now it is as good or worse than the Suzuki Mirage (core) in every category while beeing twice as expensive and not rocking any upgrades to warrant the price difference.

...

Has a ruling/fix been made on this? Skimmed through 20 pages of thread and found no other mention.

Looking at the german pdf I have aquired by now: the statblock for the Kaburaya is different from what was in the english one. Compared to the Mirage it now has one additional acceleration and two less armor, all other stats are identical, including the price(!!!)
Yup (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=24571.msg458003#msg458003)
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: IntrepidVector on (07:38:26/01-09-17)
Based off the fluff, should the GTS Tower have a Retrans unit standard?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Ghost Rigger on (11:25:18/01-09-17)
The Ram Plate doesn't appear to have a price on a table either.

I've noticed that this hasn't gotten any attention since it was posted, which I found frustrating because I wanted to know the price too. In fact, I've been so frustrated that I looked through older editions until I found what I cost back then so I could use that cost for 5e. To save you all the trouble of looking, here's the 4e stats according to page 141 of Arsenal:
Mod Slots: 1
Threshold: 8
Tools: Shop
Cost: Body X 250¥
Availability: 6R
Special Skill: -
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: IntrepidVector on (15:45:57/01-09-17)
Thanks, Ghost! Had been itching to know that mysef
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: SlashXVI on (09:25:11/01-13-17)
The Ram Plate doesn't appear to have a price on a table either.

I've noticed that this hasn't gotten any attention since it was posted, which I found frustrating because I wanted to know the price too. In fact, I've been so frustrated that I looked through older editions until I found what I cost back then so I could use that cost for 5e. To save you all the trouble of looking, here's the 4e stats according to page 141 of Arsenal:
Mod Slots: 1
Threshold: 8
Tools: Shop
Cost: Body X 250¥
Availability: 6R
Special Skill: -

The german rulebook has the following stats:
Mod Slots: 2
Threshhold: 10
Tools: Shop
Cost: Body*250¥
Availability: 6R
special skill: -
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Ghost Rigger on (10:34:11/01-19-17)
Dang, you Germans always get the errata first, and in the sourcebooks at that. I guess that one extra editing process you get when translating the book really makes a difference.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Xexanoth on (15:09:28/01-19-17)
Dang, you Germans always get the errata first, and in the sourcebooks at that. I guess that one extra editing process you get when translating the book really makes a difference.

The fact that people already have spent awhile pointing out all the errors helps alot.
Then again for many it means we pay double, first for the english then for the german, because no ones got time to wait around for the german release to use all the new stuff ^^
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: ClaytonCross on (18:53:52/02-18-17)
Looks like it got squeezed out by the Pilot chart. Something else for teh errata.

(From the original writing)
***
The Pilot program determines the Rating of the drone as a whole, serves as the primary source of attributes for skill tests, serves as a cap on the highest rating Autosoft the drone can run, and more. Is there any reason that it’s in such high demand? Civilian Pilot programs are generally rating 2 (or, rarely, 1), restricted security Pilots are 3-4, while military-grade Pilots (5-6) are forbidden for general use. Cost and availability is shown on the chart below:

RATING   AVAIL   COST
1      4   100$
2      -   400$
3      8R   1800$
4      12R   3200$
5      16F   10,000$
6      24F   20,000$

(Due to advancements in Pilot programs, a Pilot may now operate as many Autosofts as its Rating, rather than half its Rating (rounded up) as per SR5. )
***

I had to go check to find that out! I was *wondering* why no one was talking about this! It's an important thing!

Is there any word on when we will get a release of an updated PDF of Rigger 5.0 that has this line included or Errata for Rigger 5.0   ...  Its kind of a big deal for rigger players and the decision was already made.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on (20:30:44/02-20-17)
That's for the errata team, not me, I'm afraid.

We'll see!
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: JeremiahRiggs on (06:20:11/03-08-17)
Is there a single, comprehensive pdf with all of the errata in one location?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: DWC on (14:55:09/03-08-17)
Are we going to see the "Core Vehicle Modifications" list on Pg155 updated to include the vehicles from Stolen Souls?  And are we going to see the stats for the vehicles in Stolen Souls updated to bring them in line with thematically similar vehicles in Core and R5?  Or should the listings in R5 all be updated to include the 1.5 multiplier from the table in Stolen Souls?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: blayz001 on (17:44:54/03-08-17)
The BMW Teufelkatze (Pg71) lists for standard equipment "Signature Dampening."  The flavor text did not provide contextual clues other than the word "electronic."  There is no "Signature Dampening" listed in the modification rules.  There are, however, 2 mods that it could possibly mean: Signature Masking, or Electromagnetic Shielding.  The only contextual clue is the lack of a listed rating (Signature Masking is available in Ratings). 
Does the German Edition provide any insight?
Edit: My initial post incorrectly labeled one mod as "Signal Dampening."
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: SlashXVI on (18:59:46/03-09-17)
The BMW Teufelkatze (Pg71) lists for standard equipment "Signature Dampening."  The flavor text did not provide contextual clues other than the word "electronic."  There is no "Signature Dampening" listed in the modification rules.  There are, however, 2 mods that it could possibly mean: Signature Masking, or Electromagnetic Shielding.  The only contextual clue is the lack of a listed rating (Signature Masking is available in Ratings). 
Does the German Edition provide any insight?
Edit: My initial post incorrectly labeled one mod as "Signal Dampening."

It does. The entry for the Teufelskatze in the german book:

Standardausstattung: Diebstahlsicherung 3, Signaturmaskierung 2, Spezialausrüstung (FlashTech in Frontscheinwerfern und Rücklichtern)
Spielinformationen: Das FlashTech-System funktioniert wie ein Flash-Pack (SR5, S. 437) mit 10 Ladungen pro Scheinwerfer bzw. Rücklicht. Statt des normalen Elektroschocksystems hat die Diebstahlsicherung ein Flammenwerfersystem, das jeden in Brand setzt, der sich an dem Fahrzeug zu schaffen macht. Der Flammenwerfer verursacht 10K Schaden mit DK -6 und hat 10 Ladungen. Das Nachfüllen kostet 500 ¥.

Which translates to:
Standard Equipment: Anti-Theft System 3, Signature masking 2, special equipment (FlashTech in front and rear facing lights)
game information: The FlashTech-System works like a Flash-Pack with 10 charges per light. Instead of the usual electroshock system, the Anti-Theft system is equiped with a flamethrower, that will incinerate everyone that tries to temper with the car. The flamethrower has a DV of 10P with -6AP and has 10 charges. Refills are 500¥.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: JeremiahRiggs on (15:39:03/03-14-17)
Rigger 5.0 Page 167

"PILOT ENHANCEMENT
More than just another program, vehicle Pilot programs are some of the most sophisticated software programs
in use today. Enhancing a drone’s Pilot program takes more than just loading a new program: select chips
on the hardware set are replaced and upgraded, new communication channels are installed to enhance information gathering, and control systems are upgraded to provide improved sensitivity and additional maneuvering options. Unlike other modifications, the Pilot enhancement replaces the Pilot Rating of the vehicle, rather than adding to its existing Rating. A Pilot program can have a Rating of 1 to 9"

It switches from talking about Vehicles to Drones in the second sentence.  It then lists the max rating for Pilot Programs as 9.  And this is only the most recent and a relatively minor point of confusion.

I am sorry, but I am finding it impossible to play this game due to the seemingly endless errata, ambiguity and rules contradictions. 

At some point, you have to stop selling these books.  Stop printing them.  Stop selling them.  And go back and fix them.

Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Patrick Goodman on (16:46:41/03-14-17)
Please make more of an effort in the future to put your errata issues in the proper thread, JeremiahRiggs. Makes it a lot easier to deal with.

And, for the record, errata is, in fact, the process of fixing the books, so we're working on your request. Thank you for taking the time to point this problem out to us.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Fabe on (10:15:38/03-15-17)
Rigger 5.0 Page 167

"PILOT ENHANCEMENT
More than just another program, vehicle Pilot programs are some of the most sophisticated software programs
in use today. Enhancing a drone’s Pilot program takes more than just loading a new program: select chips
on the hardware set are replaced and upgraded, new communication channels are installed to enhance information gathering, and control systems are upgraded to provide improved sensitivity and additional maneuvering options. Unlike other modifications, the Pilot enhancement replaces the Pilot Rating of the vehicle, rather than adding to its existing Rating. A Pilot program can have a Rating of 1 to 9"

It switches from talking about Vehicles to Drones in the second sentence.  It then lists the max rating for Pilot Programs as 9.  And this is only the most recent and a relatively minor point of confusion.

I am sorry, but I am finding it impossible to play this game due to the seemingly endless errata, ambiguity and rules contradictions. 

At some point, you have to stop selling these books.  Stop printing them.  Stop selling them.  And go back and fix them.

Funny,my physical copy says the ratings go from 1 to 6. Are you using  a PDF copy and have you been updating it?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: skuben on (01:44:58/08-25-17)
Where can I find the Rigger 5 Errata to download it?

Thanks Chummers
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: on (07:24:12/08-25-17)
Noooooooowwwwhhhheeeerrrreeeeee *Western whistling*
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: DWC on (11:16:14/09-01-17)
Several places in Rigger 5 mention Ares releasing vehicles under its Dodge brand.  When did Chrysler-Nissan sell Dodge and why would Sony give up a brand that valuable?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Kong on (00:55:13/01-09-18)
“As such, if you wanted, you could use the Drone rates (Ground = 30 KPH, Rotor = 60 KPH, Jet = 600 KPH, Water = 15 KPH) * Speed to get a 'realistc' speed.”
Here are 4 kinds of drone rates,but I find the “P” rate in some drones.So whats the P and how fast it?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (04:46:23/01-09-18)
P=Propeller and therefore identical to R=Rotor
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Kong on (07:39:33/01-09-18)
P=Propeller and therefore identical to R=Rotor
Ok,thanks,chummer.But how fast the "P"? I know W、R、G、J. But how about P?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on (08:51:11/01-09-18)
Rotor=Propeller=60km/h
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: PiXeL01 on (06:03:40/02-03-18)
The BMW Blitzkrieg comes equipped with a minigun (front) and an assault rifle (back) yet the stats say two heavy mounts only.
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Kiirnodel on (23:28:40/02-03-18)
The BMW Blitzkrieg comes equipped with a minigun (front) and an assault rifle (back) yet the stats say two heavy mounts only.

And? A gun in front and a gun in back is two weapons, so two mounts...
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: Chummer 5 is Alive on (09:41:10/03-18-18)
I've received some feedback that in the German version of Rigger 5, it's explicit that pre-installed mods count towards the total for a vehicle's limit for a particular category, and can be removed to reclaim that space. Is this a nerf on their end, or overlooked on ours? Further, if pre-installed mods don't count towards the standard vehicle capacity and they can be uninstalled, do they then provide bonus capacity above the maximum?
Title: Re: Rigger 5 Errata
Post by: DWC on (20:00:43/03-29-18)
Will the vehicles from Stolen Souls have their stats updated to put them in line with similar vehicles in their class?  If federal agents are driving modified Sidewinders, the baseline model shouldn't be less robust than an Americar.