Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: adzling on (17:02:50/07-07-15)

Title: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: adzling on (17:02:50/07-07-15)
any one riddle me this:

Y does an active hardwire that involves invasive surgery cost $4k per rating while an activesoft that just slots into a jack and you can buy off-the-shelf and requires no surgery costs $5k per rating?

ugh
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (17:12:10/07-07-15)
Only if you riddle me this: y do people feel the need to x-post?
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: adzling on (17:17:30/07-07-15)
ok, i'll bite.
Sometimes you want to talk to different audiences.

now your turn!
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (17:33:07/07-07-15)
Because activesofts require skilljacks, which cost 10k nuyen and .1 Essence per rating, as well as skill wires, which cost 20k nuyen and .2 Essence per rating.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: adzling on (17:47:08/07-07-15)
so that makes activesofts MORE expensive than hard skillwires that require surgery?
huh?
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: ScytheKnight on (18:13:36/07-07-15)
Like I said, the strength of Actisofts is that you can swap them out as needed.

Active Hardwires on the other hand cost essence and can't be swapped out as needed.

Basically it's the cheep and dirty option as opposed to investing in a proper skilljack/wires setup.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (18:14:33/07-07-15)
so that makes activesofts MORE expensive than hard skillwires that require surgery?
huh?

Yes and No.

Active hardwires do not require a skilljack or skillwires, but are limited to a single skill chosen at implantation. They are cheap, but limited

Activesofts require both implanted skillwires and a skilljack, at a minimum cost of 30k nuyen per rating, in addition to the activesoft itself. They are more expensive, but also more versatile.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: adzling on (18:25:54/07-07-15)
I agree with both of you re: the relative utility of active hardwires vs. activesofts.

However given that you must spend a whole heckuva lot more to install the skillwires and skilljacks the setup is more expensive and more essence costly.

Given that it's the same software in the activesoft and in the active hardwire how can the activesoft be more expensive even though it involves no surgery?

Just seems nutty to me.

Even if they were both the same price, or the activesoft a little cheaper it would not effect the game play balance, active hardwires would still be the cheaper option due to not requiring the support systems to make them run.

It just seems like someone didn't think it through well.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: jim1701 on (18:42:22/07-07-15)
Popularity.  Activsofts are more popular (e.g. mainstream) and so are more expensive.  Go on Amazon right now and you could most likely find two identical items where one is more expensive simply because it's red. 
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: ScytheKnight on (18:48:16/07-07-15)
What's not to get? You want to quickly give someone a skill? You cram Active Hardwires into them, you want to have someone who can easily swap between a variety of skills, you get them a Skill Jack/Wires combo.

Also worth noting that Skill Jack/Wires is more current technology, read the fluff on Active Hardwires and it mentions that it's old, practically discontinued tech making it much cheaper to manufacture.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: adzling on (18:58:53/07-07-15)
Bottom line, the cost of surgery.

One has it, the other just plugs in.

Installing a comlink in your head costs more than carrying one in your pocket.

Imagine installing a comlink in your head cost less than carrying one in your pocket.

would that make sense?
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: ScytheKnight on (19:06:31/07-07-15)
Forget it...
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: jim1701 on (19:27:15/07-07-15)
There are many things that go into determining a price point for a product.

Econ 101
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: adzling on (19:45:24/07-07-15)
I agree with all of your points.

If you think that the cost of surgery is not a factor then I would understand your rationale.

Last I checked surgery wasn't free.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: jim1701 on (19:49:35/07-07-15)
In general I would include surgery as a manufacturing cost.  You don't have too and you can make it a separate factor but that does not change the fact that there are perfectly valid reasons why hardwires are cheaper than activsofts.  But obviously I can't help you so I'm outta here...
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Hobbes on (22:08:21/07-07-15)
1. Game balance.  More flexible has to cost more somehow.  Doesn't have to make sense, that's just a bonus when it happens. 

2.  To make you ask questions. 
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Wakshaani on (22:18:15/07-07-15)
A small conflation.

You can run an ActiveSoft in one of two ways.

1) Take a Skilljack, and Skillwires, OR
2) Take Active Hardwires

In either case, they can run only an ActiveSoft equal to their lowest level (Thus, a rating 4 Skilljack and a Rating 2 Skillwires, or 2 Jack 4 Wires, would only allow you to run them at a rating of 2.)

The difference is that Hardwires have the chip effectively 'welded' in place and it can't be changed, while Skillwires allow you to just take the chip out and stick another one in to do something different.

NOW, as for why the WIRES cost 4K while the CHIP costs 5K?

Think of it in terms of a video game. The disc costs pennies to make, but the game that's ON teh disc took millions of dollars of work to assemble.

Skillwires, same thing. The wiring and surgical implanation has one cost, but the PROGRAMMING has another.

Doe sthat make it more clear for you?
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Wakshaani on (22:21:50/07-07-15)
Oh, and a bonus round. It didn't make it into teh book, but you can get a licensing fee (of sorts) on teh software, for example for a factory, that allows you to replicate it for your workers instead of buying hundreds of the same program. So, you can plug Hardwires into your workers for, say, ten grand, drop in the licensed software, and send 'em right to work. Industrial-level purchases are things most Runners never do, but for a big enough factory, it can save you a fortune.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: ScytheKnight on (22:55:33/07-07-15)
Wait so, is a skillchip an added cost to a Active Hardwire, or does it come with it?
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: jim1701 on (23:08:12/07-07-15)
Wait so, is a skillchip an added cost to a Active Hardwire, or does it come with it?

I certainly hope not or else that takes Hardwires from moderately decent equipment to bottom of the pile junk.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Wakshaani on (23:17:45/07-07-15)
Wait so, is a skillchip an added cost to a Active Hardwire, or does it come with it?

Added to the cost. It does *not* come with it. Getting teh system PLUS the software for less than the software would just be silly. :)

Hardwires are about one seventh the cost of a Skilljack + Skillwire combination, but you only get ONE skillsoft, ever, for it.

So, a better deal if you just want one or two skills, but not so much if you want several.

Again, it's primarily for factory workers and the like. (Or for a crime syndicate to choose somebody loyal and turn them into medical support easily.)
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: jim1701 on (23:54:45/07-07-15)
54k for a single rating 6 skill I can't change is a little too steep for me. 
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Wakshaani on (00:11:33/07-08-15)
54K = 27 Karma, vs the 42 it would cost to take it normally, and you can have no skill this morning and Rating 6 that afternoon, BUT, it'll cost you some Essence.

It's a close thing.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Rooks on (02:21:59/07-08-15)
54k for a single rating 6 skill I can't change is a little too steep for me.
wait so you have to buy the hardwires AND the skill soft?
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: jim1701 on (02:52:39/07-08-15)
54k for a single rating 6 skill I can't change is a little too steep for me.
wait so you have to buy the hardwires AND the skill soft?

Evidently. :(
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Stoneglobe on (07:14:25/07-08-15)
To me as both a player and GM it makes perfect sense that you would have to buy the software as well.

With skill hardwires you are buying the hardware required to run the uploaded software. As this hardware is fixed to a single skill the costs (both essence and financial) are dramatically reduced when compared with the more flexible hardware available (combination of skilljack ans skillwires). The purchase cost of the software (skillsoft) for both systems is the same.

At character creation the cost breakdown is (working on rating 6 which seems to be the sticking point):

Skill Hardwires Rating 6

Essence: 0.3
Nuyen: 24000
Karma: 0
Software: 30000

Total Cost:

Essence: 0.3
Nuyen: 54000
Karma: 0

Overall not a bad investment (it's not ridiculously cheap thus avoiding powerplayer/munchkinism but still provides an additional rtg 6 skill for less than the karma cost of buying that skill) to get an additional active skill at rating 6. Also very much easier to achieve in game as the maximum availability is 12 on this build.

The downside being that this skill can never be changed.
The upside being this never needs to be wireless so can't be hacked.

Skilljack and skillwires Rating 6

Skilljack
Essence: 0.6
Nuyen: 120000
Karma: 0

Skillwires
Essence: 0.6
Nuyen: 120000
Karma: 10 (Restricted Gear Quality)

Overall:
Essence: 1.2
Nuyen: 240000 + cost of each piece of software
Karma: 10 (Restricted Gear Quality)

If you've got the spare essence, nuyen and karma obviously this is a much better system to install due to the ability to change software as required but the cost is almost prohibitive (again avoiding powerplayer/munchkinism) and is certainly very difficult to install after character creation as the Restricted Gear Quality actually provides no help as it's only good for items up to availability 18 and even then adds 30% to the cost.

The upside is that once you manage to get this installed and access to all of the software you require you truely are a Jack Of All Trades

The downside is that there is always the temptation to run this system in wireless mode due to the significant benefits on offer as well as the potential for utilising the online skillsoft libraries meaning tht your system is now venerable to hacking and you losing that important skill at just the wrong moment.

Overall I believe that these systems are actually very balanced and fair in terms of their relative costs, advantages and disadvantages.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Wakshaani on (08:38:18/07-08-15)
Correct!

It's a battle of efficiency, where the cost of wires + skillsoft vs buying a skill with Karma should be a cost-benefit analysis that, ultimately, revolves around one question: How valuable is your Essence? The original mix has Activesofts a touch cheaper, so that you'd at least break even at all levels, rather than as it stands now, where you pay a touch more for Rating 1 Activesofts than you do fo just buying a skill. The current chart looks, roughly, like so:

(Rating/Karma/Karma in Nuyen)
LINGUASOFTS
1/1/0.5
2/2/1
3/6/1.5
4/10/2
5/15/2.5
6/21/3

KNOWSOFTS
1/1/1
2/3/2
3/6/3
4/10/4
5/15/5
6/21/6

ACTIVESOFTS
1/2/2.5
2/6/5
3/12/7.5
4/20/10
5/30/12.5
6/42/15

SKILLJACK
1/X/5
2/X/10
3/X/15
4/X/20
5/X/25
6/X/30

SKILLWIRES
1/X/10
2/X/20
3/X/30
4/X/40
5/X/50
6/X/60

Using these charts, you can start finding the break point ... at break point, the cost of buying things with Karma, or via SKillsofts, is the same(ish), while every 'soft you buy after that is effectively profit, IE getting a skill at a cost lower than the Karma cost. The initial investment in a Skilljack/Skilllwires servs as a 'buffer' to make the entry expensive, but do-able, but those that lean heavily on the tech will see an eventual upside.

On a Skilljack 1, you never see a Break Point on Knowsofts, but break even at 20 Language (1) 'softs.
Skilljack 2, 10 Knowledges or 5 Languages
Skilljack 3, 5 Knowledges or 3 Languages
Skilljack 4, 3 Kowledges or 2 Languages
Skilljack 5, 2 Knowledges or 2 Languages
Skillhjack 6, 2 Knowledges or 2 Languages

On Skillwires (Which also require a Skilljack whose cost is NOT reflected here!)
Skillwires 1 never gets a Break Point
Skillwires 2 has a break point of 20 Active Skills
SKillwires 3, 6 Active Skills
Skillwires 4, 4 Active Skills
Skillwires 5, 3 Active Skills
Skillwires 6, 2 Active Skills

Still not *quite* where I wanted, but almost.

Hardwires, both Knowledge and Active, are almost always 'profitable'... I think the Break Point's at 2, but I don't have that chart handy I'm afraid.

Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: adzling on (10:03:23/07-08-15)
thank you, this makes sense now.
I was having issues trying to figure out how the software + hardware + surgery was cheaper than the software alone...

So the karma cost for a level 6 skill is 42.
While the karma equivalent cost for rating 6 skillwires and skilljack is 90 with each rating 6 activesoft's karma equivalent cost 15 karma.

Maximum # of rating 6 activesofts you can load at once = 3.

the karma equivalent to purchase 3 rating 6 activesofts and the rating 6 skillwires and skilljack to run them = 135.

whereas 3 level 6 skills = 126 karma.

So your paying a slight premium for the flexibility of the system, although the drawback is you lose the ability to spend edge on those tests.
Bonus if your a technomancer you can stick a sprite in the system and get an extra 3-4 dice quite easily.

Now if you install a rating 6 chipjack at $6k/ 3 karma you have now raised the max number of rating 6 activesofts you can install from 3 to 6.
assuming you max out your activesofts you start to see a karma efficiency:


the karma equivalent to purchase 6 rating 6 activesofts, rating 6 skillwires, skilljack and chipjack to run them = 183
the cost to get those skills organically = 252


Wait so, is a skillchip an added cost to a Active Hardwire, or does it come with it?

Added to the cost. It does *not* come with it. Getting teh system PLUS the software for less than the software would just be silly. :)
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: adzling on (10:59:06/07-08-15)
Stone just an FYI the cost of Skilljack was reduced from $20k per rating to $10k per rating in Chrome Flesh.

So $180,000 for a skillwire rating 6 system with rating 6 skilljack.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Hobbes on (11:14:27/07-08-15)
Wait so, is a skillchip an added cost to a Active Hardwire, or does it come with it?

Added to the cost. It does *not* come with it. Getting teh system PLUS the software for less than the software would just be silly. :)

Hardwires are about one seventh the cost of a Skilljack + Skillwire combination, but you only get ONE skillsoft, ever, for it.

So, a better deal if you just want one or two skills, but not so much if you want several.

Again, it's primarily for factory workers and the like. (Or for a crime syndicate to choose somebody loyal and turn them into medical support easily.)

It didn't work that way in other editions, and the current rules don't imply you need to purchase the Skillsoft in addition to the Hardwires at all.  And as other posters have stated, if you have to buy both they go from "okay for some builds" to stuff a PC will likely never take.  Feel free to add to your errata pile  ;) 

And your balance math is a bit off because you can't equate a Hardwire skill of 6 to a "real" skill of 6.  You can't edge a Hardwire, and you can't improve a Hardwire unless you completely replace it.  Those are non-trivial things.  You need to compare costs between Hardwires and Skillwires (and skilljacks and skillsofts and whatnot) so you're comparing Apples to Apples. 

Keep in mind out of chargen its 124K, 20k a month, and .9 Essence for "Every skill in the game at 4" with the package and a subscription.  How many Rating 4 Hardwires is that if you have to purchase the skill softs?  4 maybe?  (AFB so this is from memory here, please correct my math if I'm wrong)
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: adzling on (11:37:49/07-08-15)
Keep in mind that you only get one activesoft at a time from your subscription.
So not nearly as powerful as 4 x rating 4 hardwires with 'softs.
But infinitely more flexible.

Keep in mind out of chargen its 124K, 20k a month, and .9 Essence for "Every skill in the game at 4" with the package and a subscription.  How many Rating 4 Hardwires is that if you have to purchase the skill softs?  4 maybe?  (AFB so this is from memory here, please correct my math if I'm wrong)
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Stoneglobe on (12:34:07/07-08-15)
Keep in mind that you only get one activesoft at a time from your subscription.
So not nearly as powerful as 4 x rating 4 hardwires with 'softs.
But infinitely more flexible.

Keep in mind out of chargen its 124K, 20k a month, and .9 Essence for "Every skill in the game at 4" with the package and a subscription.  How many Rating 4 Hardwires is that if you have to purchase the skill softs?  4 maybe?  (AFB so this is from memory here, please correct my math if I'm wrong)

And you'd need to be online in wireless to use the library meaning you can have your system hacked and bricked.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: jim1701 on (12:50:32/07-08-15)
Keep in mind that you only get one activesoft at a time from your subscription.
So not nearly as powerful as 4 x rating 4 hardwires with 'softs.
But infinitely more flexible.

Keep in mind out of chargen its 124K, 20k a month, and .9 Essence for "Every skill in the game at 4" with the package and a subscription.  How many Rating 4 Hardwires is that if you have to purchase the skill softs?  4 maybe?  (AFB so this is from memory here, please correct my math if I'm wrong)

And you'd need to be online in wireless to use the library meaning you can have your system hacked and bricked.

You only have to be online the turn you download the activsoft.  After that you can turn wireless off again if you want.  Not much chance of a hack there. 

Quote from: Chrome Flesh pp 78
Mechanically, skillsoft networks work as follows: First, the user wirelessly accesses the Matrix host that they pay a monthly fee to and requests a skill from the catalogue.  This is a Simple Action and, obviously, requires the user to have a wireless connection active. At the beginning of the next Combat Turn, the skill is ready to use, but the user suffers a –5 penalty to their Initiative Score, due to the lag time between the node remotely accessing the skill and the user’s cyberware enacting it.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Wakshaani on (13:21:40/07-08-15)
With teh Wireless service, it need sto stay on ... you aren't downloading it, it's remote-operating via your hardware. Small, but important, difference!

And, yes, a lot of pros and cons to the heavy Skillsoft build, as intended. Having a pile of skills that you can switch through when needed vs having fewer skills but that they can be Edged = a cost-benefit analysis. There's no clear "This way is better"... each version is strong here and weak there.

Which means working as intended. Yay!

Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: adzling on (13:57:36/07-08-15)
Interesting, I would have thought once the activesoft was downloaded into the system you could turn off wireless.
We might houserule it to work that way.

I do agree though that with the clarification that hardwired skillwires require the purchase of the software to run things are very balanced between the tradeoffs between the various systems and purchasing via karma organically.

Without the cost of the activesoft a rating 6 skillwire at 0.3 essence and $24k cost was an insane bargain making it far better to get the hardwire than buy the skill organically (12 karma vs. 42 karma!?!).

It's really super encouraging to see you getting into the nitty gritty of the karmic implications for the various systems Wak.
I can't tell you how happy it makes me to know that you guys are thinking deep on play balance.
cheers for that ;-)
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: jim1701 on (13:58:34/07-08-15)
With teh Wireless service, it need sto stay on ... you aren't downloading it, it's remote-operating via your hardware. Small, but important, difference!

And, yes, a lot of pros and cons to the heavy Skillsoft build, as intended. Having a pile of skills that you can switch through when needed vs having fewer skills but that they can be Edged = a cost-benefit analysis. There's no clear "This way is better"... each version is strong here and weak there.

Which means working as intended. Yay!



Then I would suggest a clarification for that as well in the errata
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Hobbes on (15:36:01/07-08-15)
With teh Wireless service, it need sto stay on ... you aren't downloading it, it's remote-operating via your hardware. Small, but important, difference!

And, yes, a lot of pros and cons to the heavy Skillsoft build, as intended. Having a pile of skills that you can switch through when needed vs having fewer skills but that they can be Edged = a cost-benefit analysis. There's no clear "This way is better"... each version is strong here and weak there.

Which means working as intended. Yay!



Then I would suggest a clarification for that as well in the errata

Yeah, because as written it doesn't have a wireless bonus that I can recall.  If wireless is required for any functionality it really needs to be written that way. 
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Sterling on (15:56:01/07-08-15)
But it's right there in the so-called "useless" fluff:

Quote
The actual data is hosted remotely, allowing a user to request a skill package, which is then run on the nodes, with the skills being loaned to the user. This mirrored approach prevents the code from being captured and copied, quashing piracy before it can become an issue, while allowing the user a huge swath of potential skills.

Chrome Flesh, p. 78
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: jim1701 on (16:00:39/07-08-15)
But it's right there in the so-called "useless" fluff:

Quote
The actual data is hosted remotely, allowing a user to request a skill package, which is then run on the nodes, with the skills being loaned to the user. This mirrored approach prevents the code from being captured and copied, quashing piracy before it can become an issue, while allowing the user a huge swath of potential skills.

Chrome Flesh, p. 78

Again highlighting my problem when they mix rules into the fluff and hit frappe.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Kincaid on (16:09:49/07-08-15)
But it's right there in the so-called "useless" fluff:

Quote
The actual data is hosted remotely, allowing a user to request a skill package, which is then run on the nodes, with the skills being loaned to the user. This mirrored approach prevents the code from being captured and copied, quashing piracy before it can become an issue, while allowing the user a huge swath of potential skills.

Chrome Flesh, p. 78

Or perhaps the problem of only reading part of the text.

Again highlighting my problem when they mix rules into the fluff and hit frappe.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: jim1701 on (16:46:51/07-08-15)
But it's right there in the so-called "useless" fluff:

Quote
The actual data is hosted remotely, allowing a user to request a skill package, which is then run on the nodes, with the skills being loaned to the user. This mirrored approach prevents the code from being captured and copied, quashing piracy before it can become an issue, while allowing the user a huge swath of potential skills.

Chrome Flesh, p. 78

Again highlighting my problem when they mix rules into the fluff and hit frappe.

Or perhaps the problem of only reading part of the text.

I shouldn't have to read every word on every page.  I don't have to read every word of every page of any other RPG system I currently own in order to play them because they generally know how to keep rules and fluff delineated for ease of use.  Similarly helpful when the quote function is used correctly.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Kincaid on (17:01:32/07-08-15)
Maybe not.  But asking people to read two paragraphs labeled "Wireless Skillsoft Networks" when they're interested in how wireless skillsoft networks work doesn't seem too onerous. 
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: jim1701 on (17:23:06/07-08-15)
I see, it's completely the customer's fault.  I get it now.  Every time I think this company is starting to pay attention someone has to come along and prove me wrong.  I'm out. 
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: adzling on (19:11:50/07-08-15)
It's really embarrassing the quality of the product they churn out given the high calibre writing talent for the fluff.
+ I have to say I was particularly impressed by Wak's contribution to this thread, he knows the nuts and bolts which is great.

It's now well past time for Catalyst to stop this madness, replace the line editor and implement a solid editing process.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Hobbes on (20:29:26/07-08-15)
"Mechanically, skillsoft networks work as follows:
First, the user wirelessly accesses the Matrix host that they pay a monthly fee to and requests a skill from the catalogue. This is a Simple Action and, obviously, requires the user to have a wireless connection active. "

Could be clearer.  If the intent was that a wireless connection was required for basic functionality here would have been a good spot to spell it out.  As it is, a wireless connection is only mentioned in connection to swapping skills. 

Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Hobbes on (21:02:49/07-08-15)
Keep in mind that you only get one activesoft at a time from your subscription.
So not nearly as powerful as 4 x rating 4 hardwires with 'softs.
But infinitely more flexible.

Keep in mind out of chargen its 124K, 20k a month, and .9 Essence for "Every skill in the game at 4" with the package and a subscription.  How many Rating 4 Hardwires is that if you have to purchase the skill softs?  4 maybe?  (AFB so this is from memory here, please correct my math if I'm wrong)

So slightly back to topic.  Hardwires plus skill softs you get 16 skill ranks for the same nuyen cost as Tradejack package and a subscription.  So 16 ranks (max of 6) vs. every skill in the game.  Similar essence costs.  Eh.  Makes skillwires more attractive anyway.
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: adzling on (21:59:58/07-08-15)
I guess that depends if you need to use perception, sneaking, and automatics at the same time!
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Hobbes on (22:29:29/07-08-15)
 ;D
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Wakshaani on (23:25:57/07-08-15)
I guess that depends if you need to use perception, sneaking, and automatics at the same time!

Chipjack is your friend. :D

I was thinking about dropping a Chipmonkey build in around here somewhere, as an example. My ideal one is a corp exec who hits the streets, but grabs a handful of useful things (like pistols!) on the way out, but "Jack Chippington, Vancouver Trideo Star" also has appeal ... famous actor with big muscles and bigger teeth decides he wants to "Take a walk on the wild side" and slots a few chips to give him street skills. Because I miss those old styles of 'runs where the 'runners have to play babysitter for some goober with A) no clue and B) a nice bank balance.

"Ooo, is this where we hack the Gibson? To flip the protocols back on themselves so the Ice melts? I have a skillsoft that will help!"
"And your cyberdeck?"
"What's a cyberdeck?" *click* ... ... .. ."OHHhhhhh...."
. o O ( This guy... )
Title: Re: Active Hardwires vs. Activsofts
Post by: Hobbes on (23:32:03/07-08-15)
Adzling beat you to it

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=21310.0