Shadowrun

Catalyst Game Labs => Errata => Topic started by: Sterling on <06-30-15/1009:01>

Title: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Sterling on <06-30-15/1009:01>
I really didn't want to be the one who started this, but...

p. 117 the information for Gills in the table is out of place - Essence is under Rating, Rating is under Cost, and the Cost is missing completely.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Top Dog on <06-30-15/1043:54>
Nanogear on p.154 has an Essence column that should be labeled Availability.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Sendaz on <06-30-15/1456:01>
Please to include a little bit on Essence holes if someone should yank out some of their cyber and replace with something else.

It's not major, but would be a good place to slip this in just to reinforce what has been done before in previous edition.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <06-30-15/2129:11>
Ah! Thank you. Meant to start this, but you beat me to it.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <06-30-15/2251:18>
The Custom Drugs & Drug Interaction Tables & Crunch need some serious attention. Using examples as a way to express Rules is Bad Form, examples should be used to clarify Rules.

#1. How does Wreckers custom drug get an Addiction Threshold of 8 & an Addiction Rating of 10? The table show * under both headings for all Block Levels except for Enhancer. Which puts his Addiction Threshold at 4 (+ *) & Addiction Rating at 8 (+ *). He has 2 Blocks at level 2 & 1 Block at level 3. How do Block Levels increase Addiction Threshold? It is never explained... this is what I'm guessing from the numbers provided in the example.
---Block Level 1 +0 Addiction Threshold
---Block Level 2 +1 Addiction Threshold
---Block Level 3 +2 Addiction Threshold

Addiction Rating
1 Block   +0 Addiction Rating
2 Blocks +1 Addiction Rating
3 Blocks +2 Addiction Rating
.....

Corollary issue... are there Psychological, Physiological, or Both???

Also are the -1 Addiction Threshold & 2x Cost of Pharmaceutical Grade Drugs already factored in to the Threshold & Cost of Custom Drugs? If so... why mention it in that description? If not... why is not part of the Table? Vague and Confusing either way added into the Byzantine Rule Set that already is Drug use in Shadowrun system.


Over all these are NOT IMPROVEMENTS for Drugs. The Thresholds quickly become to high which means that your guy Wrecker is Burned Out in a Month & DEAD 6 weeks later as his Attributes are burned to 0 every week. That is not a Playable Mechanic!!! Also it makes taking even a Single drug become iffy & 2 Drugs is down right insane when even using a stimm patch can result Double Duration for crash effects for 1 drug & 2 Drugs can give you an immediate crash, 3 Damage Stun unresisted, or Physical instead of Stun Damage which if using a Stimm Patch can pretty much Kill you. Especially if coupled with any combat drug which is what you are likely to be on given that you are taking Stun Damage to start with. So again the Rules for Addiction were already wonky in core.... all these ones did was make them wonky & lethal!!!!!

Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-01-15/0458:50>
The Table on pg 150 is incorrectly labeled Hard Nannite Systems... it should be Soft Nannite Systems.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: The Masked Ferret on <07-01-15/0943:30>
Trauma Damper, Pg. 119:


For Immunization, Pg. 164:

Compiled Augmentation tables, Basic Bioware, Pg. 229 (See also the More Bioware Table, Pg. 117. It has many of the same issues.)

Compiled Augmentation tables, Basic Bioware, Pg. 230 (See also the More Bioware Table, Pg. 117. It has many of the same issues.)

Compiled Augmentation tables, Cultured Bioware, Pg. 231(See also the Cultured Bioware Table, Pg. 119. It has many of the same issues.)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: prionic6 on <07-01-15/0946:56>
Red Mescaline on p. 182 makes a reference to a drug interaction roll on p. 178 but there is only fluff. The crunch is on p. 192.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-01-15/1959:32>
Trauma Damper, Pg. 119:
  • Fluff indicates that it is possible to get addicted to a Trauma Damper. Is it? If so, can we get the Addiction Rating and Addiction Threshold?
  • Also, maybe some exposition on when the addiction might start? Anytime you use it? A period of time it is active?

It's effectively a low-level Opiate. I'll have to bounce off the rest of the guys (especially the drug cartel!) to see what level is appropriate here.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-02-15/0838:08>
Nah, they have failed when it comes to appropriate. :P
The silver lining is that Drug Gas Grenades are even more fun now.

We need a line of clarificaation on modular limbs.
The way it's written, it's just like the real thing, meaning you can get extra armour on both the upper and lower half of a limb, allowing a naked human with 3.2 essence in otherwise unupgraded synthetic limbs to have 24 armour.
Unless that's intended, in which case that also needs clarifying.
Also, on page 93, we have :
Quote
Most cyberlogicians also get an encephalon bioware
augmentation, but it isn’t a bundled item.
> Glitch
This augmentation doesn't exist, however, and isn't mentioned ever again in the entire book.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-02-15/0928:04>
Note the large capacity cost on modular limbs. That was intended. Essentially, a modular hand has 4 Capacity in it, but takes 5 off the limb it's attached to. Parial limb same thing, yanking from a full limb. Your overall capacity for a modular limb is, thus, 1 less thana normal limb (The 1 is taken up by the modular joint) ... So, you could have a partial limb with a modular hand, for instance, and have a weapon hand, a shooting hand, a couple of modular bits of equipment, and so on.

For a modular limb that was larger, you could have an armored one, but it won't hold anymore armor than the limb could have held originally. (Less, really, with the reduced capacity).
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-02-15/1008:00>
Well, a point of armour costs only 1 point of capacity, so a normal arm can have 3/15. Capacity wasn't exactly the problem.
Unless that is somehow clarified, I'd assume you can have a Full Cyberarm with 3 Armour, and a little bit of Agility, and then have sufficient space left in the modular lower half for another three armour.
You say it can't hold more than a regular full limb, but isn't actually written anywhere as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-02-15/1251:14>
Teh modular lower arm has a Capacity ocst of 10 out of your Full Arm. The Hand has 5 out of your Partial Arm or Fulll Arm. (Or at last should. I'll need to check the final PDF.)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: prionic6 on <07-02-15/1500:15>
The point is: Say you have a (full) cyberarm. You put the maximum amount of armor in it, which is three - because the cyberlimb armor enhancement says "Rating 1-3". Now you attach a modular lower arm, which has its own capacity that can now hold another rating 3 armor enhancement. I think now you could even attach a modular hand to your lower arm which hold another 3 armor! So before, the max amount of armor any cyberarm could have was 3, because there was no rating 4, 5, 6, etc armor enhancement. But now you could have 9 in your arm, maybe even more in your leg?

It also doesn't make a lot of sense for other stuff. When you put an AGI enhancement in you cyberarm, then attach a modular lower arm with other stuff in it, your "agility enhancment parts" are completely in you upper arm. Which is a bit difficult to imagine how that would work.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-02-15/1511:21>
Well, technically, all important muscles for arm movement are in your upper arm and shoulder, and a cyberhand shouldn't even significantly increase gripping strength.
But yes, prionic explained it better than me.
Either you need the same things in every subpart of a limb, then even +5 capacity would potentially leave you weaker. Or you don't, then you can stack defense to a madness.
Example:
Cyberlegs with modular Lower Legs with modular Raptor Feet, and and Arms with modular lower arms. R3 Orthoskin, full armour in every limb part.
Total Armour: ((3+3+3)x2)+(3+3)x2+3 = 33 Armour while completely naked.
So a line saying "Enhancements in modular limbs stack with Enhancements in the limb they are mounted on, if any, to a maximum of +3" would remove that worrisome interpretation.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-02-15/2011:59>
Trauma Damper, Pg. 119:
  • Fluff indicates that it is possible to get addicted to a Trauma Damper. Is it? If so, can we get the Addiction Rating and Addiction Threshold?
  • Also, maybe some exposition on when the addiction might start? Anytime you use it? A period of time it is active?

It's effectively a low-level Opiate. I'll have to bounce off the rest of the guys (especially the drug cartel!) to see what level is appropriate here.

Can you bounce the Entire Drugs Section off them? With a Hardcover book, preferably! It's the Section that just keeps giving, giving atrocious Errors!

Pg 191 It lists Custom Drug Base Vector as Ingestion, then lists Ingestion as one of the Enhancers available. Which one is it?

I'll go read it again to find more wrong, I can't even get out of this section it Fails so hard.



Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: DeathStrobe on <07-03-15/1539:23>
Leonora Bartoli's name is spelt wrong on p65.

It's spelt Lenora Bartoli, missing the first O in Leonora.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-03-15/1542:53>
In Synch's description, it says :
Quote
This enhancement is incompatible with dynomitan.
What's that?

At heat adaptation, it says:
Quote
This treatment
is incompatible with the same implants as cold adaptation
So which implants is cold adaption incompatible to?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Hobbes on <07-03-15/1706:58>
Chemical Gland p. 112.  "These compounds must be naturally occurring and not synthetic."  We only have stats for Synthetics...

Not that its particularly difficult to come up with stats for chemicals, but the cost is 100* the cost of the chemical so could result in a fairly large swing from table to table.  Rough guidelines are probably needed, if not a specific list.  Because, well, Adrenaline is 100% natural.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-03-15/2007:02>
Yeah, that one was a trip on my own side. The 4th ed book just sat it out there and went "Done!" and let us hanging. I was eyeballing the deadline and trying to figure out what to do when the massive chamical chapter was finished and I went, "Okay, phew, we can roll with that." ... But about everything there is also synthetic, so doesn't work. D'oh!

So, yes, at some point, we'll need to make a nice long list of natural chemicals and their effects, from tree frog poison and cobra venom to insulin overdoses and low-grade adrenaline boosts.

Well, nobody ever said this job'd be *easy*. :D

(adds it to the stack)

More errors, corrections, and rules requests? Keep 'em rolling!
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: MisterNix on <07-03-15/2216:11>
Skill Jacks in Chrome Flesh are 10k per level vs. 20k per level in the core book.  Guidance on which is correct would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-03-15/2346:41>
Skill Jacks in Chrome Flesh are 10k per level vs. 20k per level in the core book.  Guidance on which is correct would be appreciated.


They are only 1k in the German edition under Pegasus.... this was an attempt to roll back the outrageous prices for Skilljacks. I'd recommend that you try to get your GM to use 1k cost.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-04-15/0135:49>
Skill Jacks in Chrome Flesh are 10k per level vs. 20k per level in the core book.  Guidance on which is correct would be appreciated.

10K is the new price. It's an active change. :)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: PiXeL01 on <07-04-15/0153:38>
With the nanopocalypse is effect 10k sounds ok since you'd need brain and nerve surgery to install the wires, right?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-04-15/0558:47>
So is the doubling of Essence cost in Skillwires also intended? What do people do that had them already, and are low on essence?
Will they suddenly drop dead?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-04-15/0920:34>
So is the doubling of Essence cost in Skillwires also intended? What do people do that had them already, and are low on essence?
Will they suddenly drop dead?

That, I have to find out. 0.1 Essence per Rating is where it was, and IMHO should stay, but, it might have been in the Playtesting feedback to switch it. That's a question for Upstairs. For now, go with 0.1 per Rating until we get the official stuff together. (As a heads-up, while I'll be working on a small package for the next week or two, the full one won't be out until after GenCon, I'm sure.)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Hobbes on <07-04-15/2141:36>
Revels in Murder is easily abused and should be re-examined.  A test to recover the edge instead of it being automatic and its still a powerful quality.  *or* more serious RP restrictions.  Social penalties, reputation damage, composure tests to take prisoners or leave an enemy alive after combat.

Something anyway.  I like the test to confirm edge recovery, still powerful, but not automatic. 
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: DeathStrobe on <07-04-15/2253:19>
Slab is also in Stolen Souls p189, the entries in both books are almost exactly the same, minus one thing...well two I guess. One is that there is a note for an awaken version that affects the aura. and the other thing is that the Stolen Souls version does 16 stun damage. Which assuming, the target has 3 wil and 10 stun boxes, means a person who takes slab will take 3 physical overflow. Not sure if that stun damage is suppose to be there or if Chrome Flesh is errataing that out.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Hobbes on <07-05-15/0106:30>
Tough and Targeted - person that comes after you is professional rating equal to your street Cred.
Consummate Professional - Assassin's Primer Page 17- Street Cred is now equal to Karma / 20. 

You can take a disadvantage to make another disadvantage less of a disadvantage.  And, thematically, its as likely a combination as any.  Change Tough and Targeted to person that comes after you is professional rating equal to your Karma / 10?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-05-15/0226:48>
In Synch's description, it says :
Quote
This enhancement is incompatible with dynomitan.
What's that?

Cut & Paste left over from 4th edition...
Quote
Dynomitan:   The   dynamin   protein   is   closely   tied   to   the    speed   of   neuronal   transmission   due   to   the   cell’s   ability   to   absorb    neurotransmitters.   Dynomitan   is   an   enhanced   version   of   this    protein,   expressed   exclusively   in   the   sensory   regions   of   the   brain.    Characters   with   this   modification   receive   a   +1   dice   pool   modifier    to   Intuition-linked   skills.   Characters   with   this   modification   are    also   prone   to   distraction.   When   they   notice   something   of   interest,    they   must   pass   a   Willpower   +   Logic   (3)   test   to   not   drop   the   task   at    hand.   This   enhancement   is   incompatible   with   synch.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-05-15/0617:02>
...Karma / 10?
That base rule is shenanigans anyways.
Play 15 runs, and your social limit might as well not exist. I don't think this was thought through either way.
I mean, what happens when your character has reached 300 Karma? Is he routinely targeted by great dragons?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-05-15/0803:14>
...Karma / 10?

That base rule is shenanigans anyways.
Play 15 runs, and your social limit might as well not exist. I don't think this was thought through either way.
I mean, what happens when your character has reached 300 Karma? Is he routinely targeted by great dragons?


No you should be doing some shady sh*t to then buy off the Notoriety. Like selling children in human trafficking or burning down an old folks home so the Corp can buy the property for cheap. Where's the fun if you aren't doing some morally ambiguous  (or not ambiguous at all) actions to get ahead??? If all you are doing is Hooding but the GM is still throwing piles of Nuyen at you... what a complete waste of the setting in a Dystopia Future where even the good guys are the bad guys. We are robbing, kidnapping, & murdering people but you never get Notoriety? That's a campaign problem not a mechanic problem.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: PiXeL01 on <07-05-15/0825:20>
Some people aren't comfortable to play that kind of games. Offing adults is fine but once you throw in kids many back out. SR ain't as dystopic as Cyberpunk. It wants to be in many ways but rarely reaches that level of human abuse
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-05-15/0834:24>
Some people aren't comfortable to play that kind of games. Offing adults is fine but once you throw in kids many back out. SR ain't as dystopic as Cyberpunk. It wants to be in many ways but rarely reaches that level of human abuse

Again Campaign Problem not Mechanic Problem. If you never do anything bad then you never have anything to use Street Cred on as he was saying was broken. It takes 3 runs to counter 1 bad one... something that you use your Street Cred to get a pass on, since every one has to some Business once in a while. But even counting regular runs... it's still Robbing, Kidnapping, & Murder. If a run go sideways and you gotta shot your way free... that should get you a point of Notoriety, for causing a scene. Unless the Johnson wanted you to do it messy... in which case you are still getting the Notoriety. I have complained a lot about the Rules. But we need to be clear if it's an actual Mechanic problem as opposed to how the Mechanics are being used, or under to not being used at all in specific campaigns.

******I only used the kids thing (and even scaled it back by omitting a word between child & trafficking, cause this is not a fully mature site) for shock value to prove the point about the Runs that are actually being done everyday in that world. Change the Mechanic if your campaign doesn't account for doing some messed up behavior. This is Shadowrun not Hooding.*****
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-05-15/0932:09>
Notoriety exists as a measure of untrustworthyness of a character, including unplanned massacres and the like.
It's more a mark of being unprofessional or psychotic than what many of us would describe as "evil".
Child-trafficking or directly working for Tanamous or a Dragon qualifies, once, but if you specialize in wetwork and you're good at it, no notoriety will ever come from it.

Edit: Wait, this doesn't really belong here.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Hobbes on <07-05-15/1158:53>
...Karma / 10?
That base rule is shenanigans anyways.
Play 15 runs, and your social limit might as well not exist. I don't think this was thought through either way.
I mean, what happens when your character has reached 300 Karma? Is he routinely targeted by great dragons?

My main point was the interaction of those specific disadvantages.  Admittedly, anyone pulling that should be smacked with a rulebook, but, still it's a simple change to correct to the original intent. 
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-05-15/1236:34>
Pg. 55 Redliner

Does this rraise your Natural Attributes or Cyberware Attributes? I thought it was Natural as a way to shore up Movement & Physical Limit for fully Cybered Characters. But others are saying they think it's for the Cyberlimbs themselves. If it is for Cyberlimbs would this give a total bonus of ,+5 with the Str/Agi 3 Enhancement?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-05-15/1307:21>
Until now I thought I'd plain be for everything, like a magic buff, but that's a damned good question.
And is it subject to the augmented maximum?
I mean, technically, cyberlimbs are not.

@Post below: Never interpreted it that way. It says R 2 and 3 offer an extra die, not that R3 offers one over R2.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: jim1701 on <07-06-15/0200:23>
pp 84 Move-by-wire description

Quote
Each Rating point of a move-by-wire system adds +1 Reaction and +3 Initiative (making it +4 total to Initiative).  Rating 1 move-by-wire does not offer any additional Initiative Dice, but Rating 2 and Rating 3 offer +1D6 Initiative Dice, meaning Rating 2 offers +2 Reaction, +6 Initiative, and +1D6 Initiative Dice, and Rating 3 offers +3 Reaction, +9 Initiative, and +1D6 Initiative Dice.

There appears to be a conflict between the description of the equipment and the summary of each rating's effect.  Either the description should clarify that level 3 does not offer an additional +1d6 initiative or the summary needs to be corrected. 
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-06-15/1124:11>
pp 84 Move-by-wire description

Quote
Each Rating point of a move-by-wire system adds +1 Reaction and +3 Initiative (making it +4 total to Initiative).  Rating 1 move-by-wire does not offer any additional Initiative Dice, but Rating 2 and Rating 3 offer +1D6 Initiative Dice, meaning Rating 2 offers +2 Reaction, +6 Initiative, and +1D6 Initiative Dice, and Rating 3 offers +3 Reaction, +9 Initiative, and +1D6 Initiative Dice.

There appears to be a conflict between the description of the equipment and the summary of each rating's effect.  Either the description should clarify that level 3 does not offer an additional +1d6 initiative or the summary needs to be corrected.

Didn't notice till you brought it up in the over thread since I read it once and just became disinterested. But now that I have... it says Rating 2 and 3 offer +1d6, as well as the example. It looks pretty clear that you only get +1d6 for a Rating 3 as well.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <07-06-15/1223:53>
Quote from: Chrome Flesh page 191
The base duration for customized drugs is 10 x 1D6 minutes. The base vector is Ingested, and the base Speed is 3 Combat Turns. These can be changed with Enhancers, as listed in the Available Enhancers table. The costs and Addiction effects of Enhancers are in the Customized Drugs Cost table.

The "Available Enhancers" table on the same page lists the following:
Ingestion Enhancer
Adds Ingestion as a Vector

I suspect that the base vector should be Injected instead of Ingestion.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-06-15/1316:56>
Quote from: Chrome Flesh page 191
The base duration for customized drugs is 10 x 1D6 minutes. The base vector is Ingested, and the base Speed is 3 Combat Turns. These can be changed with Enhancers, as listed in the Available Enhancers table. The costs and Addiction effects of Enhancers are in the Customized Drugs Cost table.

The "Available Enhancers" table on the same page lists the following:
Ingestion Enhancer
Adds Ingestion as a Vector

I suspect that the base vector should be Injected instead of Ingestion.

I already got that one on here too...
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-06-15/1319:43>

  

Modular Connector & Modular Cyberlimbs

« on: Today at 13:11:18 »

QuoteModifyRemove

This is confusing me on how these all work together & interact with each other. Questions I have...

#1. Could I get the Modular Connector Shoulder for .3 essence and connect a Cyberlimb to it for free? That seems broken.

#1b. Do I have to buy the Modular Connector Shoulder & a Modular Cyberarm for a total of 1.3 Essence to be able to swap arms?

#1c. Do I have to pay an essence cost to have a Modular Connector for a partial arm in a full arm?

#2. Do I have to buy the Full arm with it's -3 Capacity to use a Modular Partial Arm? Does that mean I have a modular Connector at each part (shoulder/forearm/hand)? It appears from a different issue about them in the Errata thread that each Modular Connector is supposed to take one slot. But I guess that's 1 capacity for each side, I guess... not sure.

#2a. Can I buy a Full Arm with only 1 Modular Connector in it for just using the Partial Arm swap? Thereby reducing the Capacity to -1 from -3?  Or just have a Modular Connector at the Elbow for 1 Capacity?

#2b. If I buy a Modular Full Arm does that mean I can fit a Forearm or Hand on it? Can I have 2 separate parts to be able to swap around between different Forearms & different hands?

#3. It says that the Lower Arm takes up [10] Capacity... from the Arm Total. How much is then available for it to use? The same as a lower arm(10)/leg(12)?

#4. Do I have to keep Agility/Strength Enhancements in each part?

#4a. Do they stack across different pieces? Like have a +2 in the upper arm & +1 in the lower arm for a +3 total?

#4b. Why was no mention made about the maximum bonus provided? Augmentation Maximum doesn't apply to Cyberlimbs. While I don't enjoy hardcover books flying at my head, so I wouldn't do it but putting a +3 Agility in Hand/Lower Arm/Upper Arm for a +9 total is perfectly within RAW at this point.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-06-15/2027:49>
From the same thread as the above, though I hope I could somewhat answer part of that, I now have another related question:
Can you bulk up every single part of the chain?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-06-15/2147:45>
I'll try and cover the modular bits on Wednesday. The short form is that modular parts reduce the capacity of the arm significantly, which in and of itself *should* have made the issue moot, but, armor slipped through. I'll have to get that corrected in the official read.

A modular limb with removable parts has teh overall Capacity lessened by the removed part, plus a tad more for the modular connector. A full modular arm which has 15 capacity that has a modular elbow will then have this setup:

FULL ARM - Capacity 2
LOWER ARM - Capacity 10

If you add a modular wrist to that, you get:

FULL ARM - Capacity 2
LOWER ARM - Capacity 5
HAND - Capacity 4

If you have a partial modular limb with a modular wrist, you get:

LOWER ARM - capacity 3
HAND - capacity 4

Any upgrades you take on the "higher" part of the limb "flow down" to the rest. Thus, if you take +2 Str on ther Upper Arm, that strength boost 'flows down' to the rest of the arm. This applies to Agility and Armor as well (Thus, Rating 3 Armor on the upper arm 'flows down' to the rest of the arm.)

You don't have to buy the "higher" upgrade for the lower, but this also means that you can't stack upgrades (+3 Strength upper arm, +3 more lower, +3 hand, I AM AN ARM-WRESTLING GOD!) ... they're already "there", so you can't add more.

The main use of a modular limb is to switch out parts. You might have a gun hand with an Agility boost and a gyro-stabilizer, a 'melee hand' with a handblade and a strength boost, a flamethrower hand (because that's just cool), and a synthetic hand for socializing. (Yes, synthetic parts can be modular, but they're clearly not going to pass for the real thing when you've switched them out for a tool!)

If you just take a modular joint (Shoulder, elbow/wrist), then, yes, you lose Essence for the limb that attaches to it, but that whole limb comes with standard Capacity, instead of the modular versions which have a little less. In return, you pay a lil' more Essence. (Thus, if you take a Modular Shoulder and a CYberarm, you gave up 1.3 Essence, but your limb has a full 15 Capacity, rather than the reduced level a Modular limb would.)

So, modular joint + limb = more 'power' at a greater cost, modular limb = less powerful but less Essence.

Hopefully, this makes it more clear? If not, keep the questions flowing.

Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-06-15/2315:07>
Thank you... issue I just want clarification on. Each different Modular Piece works off its own Availability Rating, correct?

And can a Modular Full Cyberlimb be swapped for a different Modular Full Cyberlimb? Or does that require a Shoulder/Hip Modular Connector to do so? I can see the logic of it going either way.

Actual question... can you spread the Bulk Modification across different parts? Not trying to go above +4 for a full limb but by using the Limits provided.... Can the Hand have Bulk +1, Lower Arm has +1-2 Depending on the Hand having +0-1, The Upper Arm can have a +2 for a full +4 bonus spread across all parts?

Other thing I noticed... was it intentional to make Lower Arms & Lower Legs the same? Partial Arms have a capacity 10 but Lower Legs have a Capacity of 12.

***I had finally finished putting together a 4 cyberlimb Character and really looked at this this morning. Now I have to do some tweaking. I'll put it up tomorrow which will showcase as much of the new Toys as I could fit in.***
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-06-15/2328:45>
Arms and legs have a different Capacity currently. Obvious hands/lower/full are 4/10/15, while feet/lower/full are 4/12/20

Modulars would be similar, before the adjustment for modularity. And now I suddenly wonder if they got the same stats, rather than having that be taken into account. Hrm. I'll have to dig out my PDF.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-06-15/2334:20>
They both use 10 capacity... it doesn't list their Capacity in the Table & no where does it say that they "Count as" what they are replacing.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-06-15/2356:36>
Humbug! Yeah, another one to notch into the corrections.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-07-15/0114:58>
Any chance we are going to get some feedback on the Custom Drug section??? That really needs so clean up since it's missing Text required for the Table to even be able to function. Without even getting into how the Example provided is nothing short of a death sentence.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: PiXeL01 on <07-07-15/0125:35>
Instant feedback on Redliner would be a blessing too. (It is the cyberlimbs or the natural body that gets the attribute boost, or both?)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-07-15/0133:54>
Not my chapter, so all I can do is pass it up the chain. :(
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-07-15/0539:45>
That sure is convoluted.  ;D
Actually, the connectors are 10 cap for knees and elbows, but the modular limbs are just limb -2, so they would have different capacities. I don't see the problem.

So in short, did I understand that right:
Either, you buy a modular limb, to be attached on a real bodypart, or you install a modular connector in a cyberlimb, and then install a completely regular cyber-sub-limb?
?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-07-15/1124:48>
Yuppers! The Modular Limb has less Capacity, while the Modular COnnector + normal limb has full capacity but teh connector will set you back some Essence.

And, yeah, more convoluted than I'd have liked, but, that's why it's in an expansion book instead of teh main rules. :D
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-07-15/1443:01>
Yuppers! The Modular Limb has less Capacity, while the Modular COnnector + normal limb has full capacity but teh connector will set you back some Essence.

And, yeah, more convoluted than I'd have liked, but, that's why it's in an expansion book instead of teh main rules. :D

It's not that bad. It just needed a Sub Chapter like it deserved instead of the 9 sentences (including Modular Gear) that it got. That's where the word count needs to be focused not the 9 pages of Fluff that started the chapter. The Crunch parts of the Splatbooks seem to be secondary the past couple, which is the exact opposite of what a Splatbook is supposed to be doing. Run that to upstairs.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-07-15/2224:11>
I actually doubled the crunch from the last edition. :) But I should have allocated more space to this one, yeah. Grf. My first project since I came off hiatus and I didn't budget well. *grump*
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-07-15/2246:03>
I actually doubled the crunch from the last edition. :) But I should have allocated more space to this one, yeah. Grf. My first project since I came off hiatus and I didn't budget well. *grump*

It's not just your chapters (though why Encephalon was cut I don't get, that was a nice Decker/Rigger augmentation) but the Drugs chapter ended flatlined at the end & why Murky Future was added when all the crunch was stripped out I don't get.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-07-15/2319:55>
The Encephelon was a gooftup (Talked about elsewhere) ... I'll be slipping it in when the official Errata comes out.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <07-08-15/0717:30>
I'll be slipping it in when the official Errata comes out.
Is that what the kids are calling it these days? :)

I jest. Any idea of when we might expect errata? I'd like to take this opportunity to state that I for one am more than happy with the type of FAQ that we're getting for Missions. I don't particularly care about layout as much as I do rules clarifications, so I'd rather have an unformatted document sooner than a nice looking formatted document later.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: PiXeL01 on <07-08-15/0759:04>
Mission style FAQ seconded!
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-08-15/0841:27>
I'll be slipping it in when the official Errata comes out.
Is that what the kids are calling it these days? :)

I jest. Any idea of when we might expect errata? I'd like to take this opportunity to state that I for one am more than happy with the type of FAQ that we're getting for Missions. I don't particularly care about layout as much as I do rules clarifications, so I'd rather have an unformatted document sooner than a nice looking formatted document later.

Before GenCon, I'd say 0.1% chance. The big guns are all just CRAZY busy right now. GenCon is to RPGs what Xmas is to the video game industry.

Everyone takes a week off after GenCon, and then starts getting back into projects. Squeezing in some FAQ/Errata time at the editing level while the writers are hammering at first drafts is possible, so, just *completely* pulling a number out of my tush, the middle of August, but don't hold me to that. It's pure speculation on my part.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: jim1701 on <07-08-15/1258:11>
The entry for Active Hardwires needs clarification.  Posts on this forum indicate that an activsoft of the appropriate rating has to be bought separately for this equipment to work though it does not indicate so anywhere in the description below.  And since the definition of "hardwired" equipment is that programming is physically built into the system at manufacture this seems misleading at best to me. 

Quote from: Chrome Flesh pp 81
Programmed with a single, unchangeable, active skill, active hardwires are a dedicated skillwire system that holds only a single skill. While this skill may not be changed, multiple active hardwires may be implanted into a person, each granting one active skill. Note that the active hardwire system includes its own processor, meaning that no skilljack is needed to operate it.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-08-15/1318:16>
It requires a SKillsoft to be added, yeah. Another one for the Errata/FAQ.

(This is gonna be a long one!)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: adzling on <07-08-15/1920:16>
It may be worth clarifying skillsoft networks while you're at it.
It's possible to glean the RAW intent by reading all the fluff carefully but it's not easy as even with that it's mostly a matter of interpretation.

Points that are very important and should have been condensed and highlighted in the rules, separate from the fluff, if the editor had not been on vacation for the last two years:
1). only one skillsoft at a time can be loaded from the network
2). they reside on the matrix, not inside your skilljack, so wireless connectivity must be maintained if you want to use them
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: MisterNix on <07-09-15/0943:45>
Any clue what it costs to refuel the Flametosser?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-09-15/1305:09>
It's probably the same fuel used in Flamethrowers, found in the R&G Errata, which means it's next to attainable. *shrugs*
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-10-15/0457:58>
Hey Wakshaani..... can we get a Armor/Enhancement for Cyberlimbs similar to how Bulk Modification works thrown into the Errata as well? Like +1 for a Hand, +2 for Lower Limb, +3 for Full Limb. Just an actual Rule about it to stop the ridiculous Feet/Hand Armor cheese. Thanx
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-10-15/1038:38>
*I* would love it, but, that's not my work, and official errata needs the stamp from above. (We went around a few times on limb armor during the SR5 design process. Soem wanted it gone entirely, others wanted it to only effect the area struck, while others wanted it to always work. In the end, simplicity won out.)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-10-15/1536:33>
*I* would love it, but, that's not my work, and official errata needs the stamp from above. (We went around a few times on limb armor during the SR5 design process. Soem wanted it gone entirely, others wanted it to only effect the area struck, while others wanted it to always work. In the end, simplicity won out.)

Not looking for anything to change in how it functions... just a limit on the Bonus provided like Bulk Modification does. The function of it works perfectly fine with the abstract way that Armor is handled, but the +3 Armor in the Hand/Foot cheese would go away. We houseruled it away back in 4th, just to clean it up like you did on the difference between Bulk Modification having set bonuses for each piece as opposed to 4th just having a +2 limit for non full cyberlimbs.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Teknodragon on <07-11-15/0123:56>
A clarification I'd like:
Digitigrade legs, the (leg) + essence makes me wonder if they take up additional essence, or if they're supposed to be an option for severe modification to one's meat legs (and is a typo).


Now to figure out what will fit in a cybercentaur body. Aside from a dwarf rigger...
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-11-15/1019:39>
They take up a tad more Essence than normal legs, yes.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-11-15/1039:39>
So they can't be modular?
Edit: And what is an "Exotic Pistol" for use in Cyberlimbs?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-11-15/1612:53>
So they can't be modular?
Edit: And what is an "Exotic Pistol" for use in Cyberlimbs?

They can be modular as well, but it'll cost a bit.

As for Exotic Pistol, this'd be Squirt Pistols, Sonic Pistols, Dart Pistols, and any other pistol that's covered by teh Exotic Weapon skill.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-11-15/1704:21>
So how does that work, given they cost extra essence?
Can I leave off an arm if I slot in digigrade legs?
Or do I just have to live with that loss of Essence while I have normal legs installed?
@Pistols:
So... Redlines?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Teknodragon on <07-11-15/2258:31>
They take up a tad more Essence than normal legs, yes.

Huh, interesting. Especially for a satyr with these (A point I just thought of). Thanks for the clarifications!
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-12-15/0819:18>
Prototype Transhuman Quality... it says that you get 1 point of essence worth of Bioware. Can that involve Geneware as well? It would definitely fit in the theme if he had tweaked genes as well as inherent bioware. The geneware counts as bioware & nanoware counts as cyberware rule from 4th edition is also missing. Does that mean that Biocompatibility would have to pick nanoware or geneware to get the bonus from that quality or might we see that "counts as" Rule reinstated?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Backgammon on <07-13-15/1413:51>
Prototype Transhuman Quality... it says that you get 1 point of essence worth of Bioware. Can that involve Geneware as well? It would definitely fit in the theme if he had tweaked genes as well as inherent bioware. The geneware counts as bioware & nanoware counts as cyberware rule from 4th edition is also missing. Does that mean that Biocompatibility would have to pick nanoware or geneware to get the bonus from that quality or might we see that "counts as" Rule reinstated?

Prototype Transhuman: No to geneware unless your GM says ok
Biocompatibility is cyber or bio ware only, not gene or nano, again, unless your GM says ok.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: deathwishjoe on <07-16-15/1427:32>
Any updates on the custom drug sections?  specifically what type of addiction these drugs are,  How to properly calculate addiction thresholds and ratings and the conflect between the text and the table on ingestions and vectors?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: KraakenDazs on <07-16-15/1542:21>
I don't have the book (yet, not planning to get it) but one of my players asked this particular question.

From what i hear, Prototype Transhumanity Quality (and srsly...i suddently feel like about a bagazilion shadowrunners will now be designed from birth just to have access to it..) gives the EQUIVALENT of a pt of essence worth of cyber or bioware.

Soooo, does that mean, RAW, OR RAI, that mages can now cram 1pt of essence without magic loss? As this is NOT an extra point of essence per se.
Also, what happens when you remove those wares to replace them for better quality ones?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: deathwishjoe on <07-16-15/1600:44>
Quote
I don't have the book (yet, not planning to get it) but one of my players asked this particular question.

From what i hear, Prototype Transhumanity Quality (and srsly...i suddently feel like about a bagazilion shadowrunners will now be designed from birth just to have access to it..) gives the EQUIVALENT of a pt of essence worth of cyber or bioware.

Soooo, does that mean, RAW, OR RAI, that mages can now cram 1pt of essence without magic loss? As this is NOT an extra point of essence per se.
Also, what happens when you remove those wares to replace them for better quality ones?

This only works on Bioware, not cyber or geneware.  Essentially they are created in a test tube with the genes needed to create or grow the bioware built into their body so the normal for them is to have bioware hence no essence loss.  Yes mages and technos with this quality can have it with out losing essence and hence lowering magic or resonance. 

The rules aren't as clear on whether or not removing this bioware leaves essence holes that can be filled by alternative cyber or bioware but as a GM I would say that they don't.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: KraakenDazs on <07-16-15/1636:01>
I like the idea, wish the application was a little clearer, and definitly hoped the fluff would make it sound rare but not THAT rare.
Because im certain it'll become more than common. Beyond the suspension of disbelief that ''Runners are exceptionnal people'' can provide.

But i'm being nitpicky. I just wish the crunch was clearer about removal/replacement of said bioware. the Essence/no-magic loss can be inferred from the description.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-16-15/1934:05>
Keep in mind you still have to buy the ware. That + buying the quality already puts a strain on your resources, nuyen or karma or otherwise.
Personally, I'd not allow replacement of that ware.
You were born with it, you can't just go around retroactively changing that.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: deathwishjoe on <07-16-15/2005:55>
Quote
But i'm being nitpicky. I just wish the crunch was clearer about removal/replacement of said bioware. the Essence/no-magic loss can be inferred from the description.

I vaguely remember some rules that lowered essence for things like losing limbs.  I may be off on this and don't really feel like digging to see if the rule actually existed and if survived movement through editions, but if I am correct it might be arguable that removing the bioware leads to essence loss rather then an essence hole being formed.  The idea being that since these are now natural parts of your body, since you were born with them, it would be like trying to remove a kidney spleen and lower arm to make room for  wired reflexes with out lowering your essence.  Cause none of that would alter the holistic health and chi flows or whatever of the characters body   :P
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Top Dog on <07-17-15/0338:23>
Quote
But i'm being nitpicky. I just wish the crunch was clearer about removal/replacement of said bioware. the Essence/no-magic loss can be inferred from the description.

I vaguely remember some rules that lowered essence for things like losing limbs.  I may be off on this and don't really feel like digging to see if the rule actually existed and if survived movement through editions, but if I am correct it might be arguable that removing the bioware leads to essence loss rather then an essence hole being formed.  The idea being that since these are now natural parts of your body, since you were born with them, it would be like trying to remove a kidney spleen and lower arm to make room for  wired reflexes with out lowering your essence.  Cause none of that would alter the holistic health and chi flows or whatever of the characters body   :P
Losing limbs never costs Essence. Replacing them might (in SR5, the cheapest option is 0.02 essence, I believe), but Essence loss is gained by adding "inhuman" stuff to your body.

But interesting point otherwise, about it being your natural body. It makes sense - basically, that e.g. Cerebral Booster 2 is now simply part of you, and replacing it with a R3 one means cutting out a natural piece of your body (which doesn't, itself, cause essence loss) and replacing it with a wholly new, foreign part.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <07-17-15/0901:36>
I really wish Prototype Transhuman had just raised your Essence to 7. Makes it easier all around, and neatly bypasses the whole 'ware with no essence loss and upgraded ware issue. It's still bioware, which means it's not natural. This isn't genetech we're talking, after all.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-17-15/0955:12>
While changing Essence would be breaking pretty much a taboo, I kinda would have liked to see that, really.

(Mind you, I also want a cap on teh Magic attribute, so.)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Vibral on <07-17-15/1105:03>
Maybe I missed it. Can you use skimmers or skates with the wall running power?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: deathwishjoe on <07-17-15/1136:22>
Quote
Maybe I missed it. Can you use skimmers or skates with the wall running power?

Of course you can.  skimmers and skates increase movement speed and wall running power lets you use your speed when moving along walls rather then just the floor.  besides its magic, of course it works. 
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Kiirnodel on <07-17-15/1808:07>
Quote
Maybe I missed it. Can you use skimmers or skates with the wall running power?

Of course you can.  skimmers and skates increase movement speed and wall running power lets you use your speed when moving along walls rather then just the floor.  besides its magic, of course it works.

Not quite, the Wall Running adept power lets you move a specific distance up a wall based on a special test, Magic+Running. So the distance up you could travel couldn't be altered except by adding bonuses to that die pool. On the other hand, the power also allows you to "Wall Run" horizontally by combining the normal Wall Running with a Sprint Action. So anything that alters base movement could be applied to how far you can move horizontally while wall running, just not how far up the wall you go.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: RedLions0 on <07-17-15/2033:11>
I would second the request on a clarification of Redliner affecting the character's stats, or the character's cyberlimbs. As it reads now, it seems like an expensive chunk of karma for a fairly minimal gain.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-18-15/0035:22>
I would second the request on a clarification of Redliner affecting the character's stats, or the character's cyberlimbs. As it reads now, it seems like an expensive chunk of karma for a fairly minimal gain.

It's been in the Errata thread from day 1. I think it's supposed to affect Natural Attributes to help mitigate the deficiencies on Movement & Limit that full cybered characters have. Others think it applies to Cyberlimbs but there isn't any clarification yet. Personally I think it's trash either way since Pharmaceutical Grade Kamikaze with Narco is infinitely better than Redliner. Cyber Singularity Seeker is pretty nice though... especially with the PG Kamikaze/Narco, can get a +4 to Willpower doing that.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Bulshock on <07-18-15/2215:12>
One I noticed, False Face.  Headware that has a Capacity cost.  Reasonable that it could be installed in a Cyberskull.  Only problem, it costs 8 Capacity when even the full Obvious CyberSkull with full Bulk Mod can only reach 6.  Along the same lines, the Partial Cyberskull has the same Capacity as the Obvious Cyberskull which is the full replacement.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-18-15/2349:20>
Partial Skull is correct. False Face has a Capacity cost in case a future product gives a skull with more capacity in it.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Bulshock on <07-19-15/1658:32>
Ah, alright.  In that case is there a recommendation you have for bringing the full skulls more in line with the partial for capacity?  I know it wouldn't be an official thing and would have to be a house rule.  Personally, to keep roughly in line with the other partial/full limb thing would be to increase the Obvious skull to 6, the synthetic to 3, and note that the partial skull is obvious as the other partial obvious limbs have more capacity then the synthetic full limbs and less then the obvious full limbs.  Does this seem reasonable for it?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Bulshock on <07-19-15/1722:56>
Skin Toner mentions that the Chameleon Processor option acts like a Rating 4 Chameleon suit.  However the Chameleon Suit doesn't have a rating.  Is it supposed to Ruthenium Polymers?  Or is it supposed to act like a regular Chameleon Suit (+2 Limit on sneaking with +2 dice if wireless is active)?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Hobbes on <07-20-15/1033:22>
NeoCortical and it's Intuition based cousin... Limbic?  Sorry away from books.  The Soft Nanites. 

"When using Logic-linked skills, this implant
grants a +1 dice pool modifier and a Mental limit bonus
equal to its Rating."

Boolean reading +1 to dice pools; +Rating to Limit.
Plain English reading +rating to Dice pool; + Rating to limit. 

If the Boolean interpretation is correct you should break that into two sentences for clarity. 

Also, if it hasn't been mentioned, the table on page 150 for Soft Nanites is labeled Hard Nanites.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Backgammon on <07-20-15/1927:43>
I don't have the book (yet, not planning to get it) but one of my players asked this particular question.

From what i hear, Prototype Transhumanity Quality (and srsly...i suddently feel like about a bagazilion shadowrunners will now be designed from birth just to have access to it..) gives the EQUIVALENT of a pt of essence worth of cyber or bioware.

Soooo, does that mean, RAW, OR RAI, that mages can now cram 1pt of essence without magic loss? As this is NOT an extra point of essence per se.
Also, what happens when you remove those wares to replace them for better quality ones?

My intent was indeed specifically not to lower essence and thus Magic. It would indeed allow a mage to keep their full Magic while having 1 point of bioware. I did think of this, it isn't an oversight.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Backgammon on <07-20-15/1935:44>
I would second the request on a clarification of Redliner affecting the character's stats, or the character's cyberlimbs. As it reads now, it seems like an expensive chunk of karma for a fairly minimal gain.

Oh dear. Didn't see that. The intent is It should affect your overall attributes (or natural attribute, if you want to call it that), NOT only the limb attributes.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Bulshock on <07-20-15/2048:48>
Wait... so Redliner affects both the Limb and your overall attributes?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Bulshock on <07-21-15/0120:22>
Cyber Singularity Seeker.  Costs 12 Karma on pg. 54 in the write up, but costs 9 in the table on pg. 55.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Backgammon on <07-21-15/0727:29>
Wait... so Redliner affects both the Limb and your overall attributes?

What it does is up to your GM. What I intended is that it affect the overall attribute and the limb.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-21-15/1142:03>
I think that's a pretty solid answer.  :)
How does "Prototype Transhuman", or more specifically the ware you acquire,  work when the respective individual acquires the Regeneration Power?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: deathwishjoe on <07-21-15/1158:51>
Quote
I think that's a pretty solid answer. 
How does "Prototype Transhuman", or more specifically the ware you acquire,  work when the respective individual acquires the Regeneration Power?

I beleive this is a non issue.  If I remember correctly you need delta grade implants for any ware being applied during character creation for characters with access to the regeneration power.  As you cant get delta grade at chargen its kind of irrelevent. 

However from a GM note if I were to allow the two to be combined as the bioware is part of there natural body according to the fluff it would regenerate just like the rest of the characters body. 
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Teknodragon on <07-21-15/1214:41>
I'd like a clarification on Centaur Limnal body:
When upgrading the Centaur body, does the character buy enhancements and customization for Agility, Strength, and Armor once or four times?

Just because some might argue the point: For the purposes of Redliner and Cyber Singularity Seeker, does Limnal Body count as having two limbs replaced?

Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-21-15/1319:30>
I beleive this is a non issue.  If I remember correctly you need delta grade implants for any ware being applied during character creation for characters with access to the regeneration power.  As you cant get delta grade at chargen its kind of irrelevent. 
You can never start with regeneration unless you play some critter. Infected don't start with it.
So the question is indeed what happens if you acquire it, given it's not Delta-Grade, but it should probably count as part of the body.
Same question, different case: Would it cause damage if you use Immortal Flower?
Also: Is the bonus from Redliner an Augmentation Bonus, or just an "Enhancement"?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Backgammon on <07-21-15/1444:56>
So the question is indeed what happens if you acquire it, given it's not Delta-Grade, but it should probably count as part of the body.
Same question, different case: Would it cause damage if you use Immortal Flower?

Part of being a *Prototype* transhuman is that nobody knows the answers to that. Maybe it was on the list of experiments to run your handlers planned on doing. Feel free to experiment. Maybe buy your GM chocolates beforehand. And don't mention "Akira" at any point.

Quote
Also: Is the bonus from Redliner an Augmentation Bonus, or just an "Enhancement"?

I don't want to open by books, so are you asking if it counts towards/can be limited by the Augmented Maximum Attributes? If so, yes, it can cap. You cannot go over the Augmented Maximums.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-21-15/1502:41>
Thank you.  :D So if you replace all 4 limbs, you only need level 2 enhancement. ... Or is the +1 Bonus only for the limbs in question and the general body, so not another pair?
A second part of that second question is compatibility:
Given that the cyberlimbs now increase the physical stats of the rest of the body, they might be incompatible with bioware augmentations to the muscles.
I think that's different in the german version, but that shouldn't concern us here.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: jim1701 on <07-21-15/1528:04>
Mmmmmmm..... I love a freshly opened can of worms.   ;D
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-22-15/0003:51>
I'd like a clarification on Centaur Limnal body:
When upgrading the Centaur body, does the character buy enhancements and customization for Agility, Strength, and Armor once or four times?

Just because some might argue the point: For the purposes of Redliner and Cyber Singularity Seeker, does Limnal Body count as having two limbs replaced?

Four legs, so you'd have to buy four upgrades, BUT, for Redliner etc, you have four limbs. So, a positive and a negative.

(Of course, you can also just leave the legs kinda middlin' and use the massive reserve of Capacity to load up with other stuff. Like hidden guns. Whee!)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Bulshock on <07-22-15/0053:40>
So a Liminal Centaur body with full conversion (cyber arms, torso, and head) would be able to grab 24 points of armor on their body then?  Or would you say that wouldn't be the intent of how it's written and limit to the same amount of armor, just needing fewer other limbs/shells, to reach the 18 that was the limit before?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Teknodragon on <07-22-15/0304:39>
Ah, thank you for clearing those up; I did not expect the qualities to work out that way.

I'd like a clarification on Centaur Limnal body:
When upgrading the Centaur body, does the character buy enhancements and customization for Agility, Strength, and Armor once or four times?

Just because some might argue the point: For the purposes of Redliner and Cyber Singularity Seeker, does Limnal Body count as having two limbs replaced?

Four legs, so you'd have to buy four upgrades, BUT, for Redliner etc, you have four limbs. So, a positive and a negative.

(Of course, you can also just leave the legs kinda middlin' and use the massive reserve of Capacity to load up with other stuff. Like hidden guns. Whee!)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-22-15/0951:16>
So a Liminal Centaur body with full conversion (cyber arms, torso, and head) would be able to grab 24 points of armor on their body then?  Or would you say that wouldn't be the intent of how it's written and limit to the same amount of armor, just needing fewer other limbs/shells, to reach the 18 that was the limit before?

I'd keep the old limit of 18, yeah.

Still not happy with the current armor rules for Cyberware. I understand why we went with what we went with, but they bug me. :)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-22-15/2258:50>
So a Liminal Centaur body with full conversion (cyber arms, torso, and head) would be able to grab 24 points of armor on their body then?  Or would you say that wouldn't be the intent of how it's written and limit to the same amount of armor, just needing fewer other limbs/shells, to reach the 18 that was the limit before?

I'd keep the old limit of 18, yeah.

Still not happy with the current armor rules for Cyberware. I understand why we went with what we went with, but they bug me. :)

Considering it would take 6.25 Essence to get to 18 Armor using full limbs... not the actual problem. The problem is that Hands/Feet can have 3 Armor each... the solution is eloquently simple, just use similar restrictions as the Bulk Modification Table. *POOF* Problem goes away and you look like a genius for suggesting it.

Cyberlimb Enhancement Table
+1 Hands/Feet/Partial Skulls
+2 Skulls/Lower Arms & Legs
+3 Full Limbs & Torsos
+6 Liminal Body (this one is kinda tricky but that's cause I don't fully understand how it's supposed to work exactly which makes it hard to Balance.) Or a +8 total bonus for each kind of Enhancement..??? Kinda force them into Redliner at that point but they should probably already be taking Redliner for the Nuyen & Capacity savings regardless. While only going 2 higher on Armor than 2 full legs, small bones but definitely not game breaking for the sheer investment going Liminal Body requires.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Bulshock on <07-22-15/2334:26>
That only matters if you go Standard Grade with no Biocompatibility (Cyberware)/Adapsin.  At Alpha and Biocompatibility it comes to 4.28.  But I do agree with your idea on limits for the armor.  As for Redliner we still haven't heard if it's supposed to push a cyberlimb (which already bypasses the normal Natural and Augmented stuff) to being able to get +5's to Agi and Strength with +3 Enhancements.  But with regards to armor I fully agree, would also give a reason to take a full Skull rather then a Partial.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-22-15/2355:34>
That only matters if you go Standard Grade with no Biocompatibility (Cyberware)/Adapsin.  At Alpha and Biocompatibility it comes to 4.28.  But I do agree with your idea on limits for the armor.  As for Redliner we still haven't heard if it's supposed to push a cyberlimb (which already bypasses the normal Natural and Augmented stuff) to being able to get +5's to Agi and Strength with +3 Enhancements.  But with regards to armor I fully agree, would also give a reason to take a full Skull rather then a Partial.

He said that it effects Natural & Cyberlimb Attributes... which was ambiguous in the book. But no where has it been even been hinted that it allows you to break the +4 Augmented Bonus Maximum which requires explicitly stating it does so. I'm not discounting the Essence reduction abilities but as I have been continually refining & Rebuilding a 4 cyberlimb character since Chromed Flesh was released as the Errata is being made more clear on this thread. You run out of nuyen FAST!!!!! I did build a full Adapsin/Alphaware build using the Cybersnob quality & while I do really like it... the Cyberlimbs are essentially shells since I can't afford to put anything in them. So yeah... there's more than just Essence limiting your build unless you don't want to be effective. Went back to 4 Used limbs for Nuyen savings & Availability Rating  (cause even Prime Runner 15 you hit walls even going Standard let alone Alpha.)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <07-23-15/0011:59>
Why wasn't an Augmentation Upgrade Path provided in Chromed Flesh like Magic Types got for their Foci in Street Grimore?

I've asked this before but it's a huge penalty to a Cybered characters Power Curve to rip out 10s of thousands of Nuyen in 'ware to get back 1000s while spending even more 10s of thousands of Nuyen to get new 'ware. It's pretty accepted on the forum that whatever 'ware you start with is pretty much the same 'ware you are going to be using for eternity. Going by the recommended pay scale in SR5. If ¥2000 counts as 1 Karma than every time you replace 'ware, then you are just hemorrhaging Karma to get an Upgrade. It's actually making your Character weaker not stronger by doing so. I understand that it's the Fighters role to get SHAFTED in every game system where they start out strong & quickly get surpassed on the Power Curve by Magic Types.... but giving them an even better Upgrade Path while continuing to punish heavy Augmentation Users is a bit rude really.

Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: DeathStrobe on <07-23-15/0029:22>
While I totally agree that there should be some rules to allow ware to be upgraded for cheaper than selling your old stuff, that's not really relevant to errata and should be discussed in the Chrome Flesh topic in the product board or in the rules or gear forums.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: jim1701 on <07-25-15/1905:57>
The drug zone on page 184 was left off both the addiction table on page 188 and the availability/cost table on 189.  Zone is also missing from the consolidated availability/cost table on pp 234-235.  There is no consolidated addiction rating table at the back of the book so consider that an issue too.

On a side note and this may or may not be considered errata but what is up with the fact that about 3/4 of these  new drugs have an addiction type of both?!?  It is not too hard to build a character that can withstand addiction of one type or the other with some success but for both?  Just seems a tad harsh IMO.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: PJ on <07-25-15/2000:38>
Page 71 the box on omegaware mentions used usually has 1.2 Essence cost.  Should be 1.25, unless cost for used is changed.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Finn on <07-25-15/2225:41>
Biocompatibility is spelled wrong on the Qualities table page 55.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-27-15/1927:38>
I asked earlier what "Exotic Pistols" means for Cyber Implant weapons, and from the answer got the understanding that might include Redlines.
Two questions:
A) Is that correct, given that the gun in question normally doesn't accept modifications, but in this case it'd obviously be directly from the manufacturer?
B) All basic Cyberguns have a Smartlink, and a lot of guns we can now build in do not. Can we expect a Smartlink module to be available in Errata or a later product (probably the latter, but I couldn't ask that here^^).
 ... Or can these weapons still take external accessories? I'd say no.

As a minor spinoff:
Modifying heavier weapons for Cyberimplant usage might circumvent availabilities. Example: An Ares Antioch-2 would be just 12F, as opposed to a hefty 20F for a Cybergrenade-Launcher. I assume that's what Gamemaster Approval is for, but thought I'd mention it.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-27-15/1941:57>
Ahh nuts. Yeah, it should note that any gun added should be a Smart version. Note that guns that AREN'T smart normally can be made so ... IIRC, all guns are available in a Smart version for double the cost.

The Exotic was a general thing for those who wanted a Super Squirt or a Dartpistol, but, yeah, if you have the budget for it, a laser would be just fine as well.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Hobbes on <07-28-15/2041:44>
Ahh nuts. Yeah, it should note that any gun added should be a Smart version.

You're good.

p. 458 of the basic book "All cyberguns are pre-equipped with smartgun systems (p. 433)"
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-29-15/0454:45>
Well, all cyberguns in the CRB are.  ;)
But Wakshaani already answered that. I was just wondering because the Lasers "Can't accept any modifications", so putting a Smartgun System inside is not normally possible.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: prionic6 on <07-29-15/0527:48>
That's up for debate. On one hand, they "cannot be modified in any way". On the other hand, the base book says about smartgun systems: "Retrofitting a firearm with an internal smartgun system doubles the weapon’s price and adds 2 to its Availability.".

With a strict reading, that would mean no internal smartgun for lasers. I suspect that it was intended that all weapons are available with smartgun systems directly from the manufaturer for double price, which would include laser weapons.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Hobbes on <07-29-15/1254:16>
With a strict reading, if it's a cybergun it has a smartlink. 

I honestly never read the Laser rules so, if it can't be modified, then how is it being used as a cyberweapon?  *shrug*

And "can't be modified"  Can't even add a sling?  Or an External Scope?  Seems written to be houseruled if it's written that way.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: prionic6 on <07-29-15/1747:46>
"They may mount underbarrel and top mounted accessories only and cannot be modified in any way."
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Hobbes on <07-29-15/1854:06>
Ah, then RAW, no Laser Pointer Fingers.  *shrug* 

Seeing as how the writer says it's okay I think we can infer RAI though.    ;)

Probably trying to keep people from sticking Gas Vents and silencers and what-not on the Laser.  Or any down the road modifications that get introduced that alter weapon stats.  Stuff intended for Bang!Bang! that shouldn't be added to PEW!PEW!
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-30-15/2201:06>
When a partial Skull says it replaces one side of the head, does that imply placement?
Or can I replace someone's face with a Tensor Faceplate from Unreal Tournament?  8)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-30-15/2254:15>
The Partial Skull has a LOT of media to draw from. Tharok from the Legion of Super-Heroes and  Halfjack from Champions are the easy ones, but also this guy:

(http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/4/47/Lobothead.jpg)

Lobot!

The mental image I had in mind was a quarter of the skull... so, if you divide the head in half along a vertical, and horizontal, axis, the upper true left quadrant would be chunked out and replaced by chrome, resulting in a single cyber-eye and cyber-ear, and a chrome plate for teh cranium, leaving the other uppe rhalf of teh head, and all the lower part, untouched. You could have some kind of faceplate ala Iron Man, which hid your forehead, both eyes, and nose (but left your mouth uncovered), or have the back of your head lopped off and replaced with steel and circuits for a more easily-accessed bit of cyber-brain upgrade.

So, you can style that sucker up.

And, honestly, you *should* style it up. Give it a nice backstory. Maybe your character had a cranial bomb detonate inside 'em once, and had to undergo major replacement work and still has a stutter because of it. Maybe they just got a strip running fro the bridge of their nose to the back of their head, so that they could implant a series of spikes on top and have them strongly rooted in metal. Maybe they have a thing running from one temple all teh way back to the back of their head, leaving the eye and ear fine, but the rest is a motherboard with chipjacks, a datajack, and who knows what else plugged into it where you have constant easy access.

There's more to it than a simple mechanical benefit after all. :)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Bulshock on <07-31-15/0026:49>
Lobot was a thought I had with it!  I also pictured half on the vertical axis.  And everything but the face (but that might be more full skull).  And so on.  Number of different ways that I've pictured it.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-31-15/0644:44>
Does a partial Cyberskull count as a partial Cyberlimb for purposes of increasing condition monitor boxes?
And can you install two of them?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <07-31-15/1207:17>
I don't recall if a partial limb counts for that bonus or not. If so, yes, if not, no.

And... hrm. Good question! Personally, I'd have no problem with someone taking two partial cyberskulls, but that'd go higher than me for an official read. Hrm!
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Hobbes on <07-31-15/1232:12>
Multiple partial limbs and armor stacking gets cheesy quickly as it is.  Letting you have multiple partials on a single location seems exploity.  Especially if the total capacity of multiple partials exceeds the capacity of a full replacement.

Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Novocrane on <07-31-15/2007:37>
Wak did say elsewhere that they may come out with other skull options that provide more capacity later on. I wouldn't strap yourself to the 2 synth / 4 obvious just yet.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Bulshock on <07-31-15/2115:57>
Personally, with the partial skull out, I'd houserule higher capacity for the full synth and obvious.  At least to 3/6 for them.  But that's obviously a houserule.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <07-31-15/2225:03>
Which we probably shouldn't think about here.
Can the Cyberlimb Bulk Modification be implemented aftermarket?
It's +Availability, like Customization, but the latter explicitly mentions that you can only do it when you buy it, which the Bulk Modification pointedly does not.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: ProfGast on <08-05-15/0320:20>
Page 102: Electrical discharge bioware mentions that a user is "is no more resistant to the discharges than anyone else, and a lethal accidental discharge would very much be a problem," which I took to mean critical glitches etc when using the bioware as a weapon. 

All well and good but if you look back at page 116 to the Electroshock Orthoskin upgrade entry which in addition to granting you the ability to discharge an implanted electroshock weapon from any point in your body also says "The user gains +4 Body to resist their own electrical discharge, due to passing the shock outwards, but suffers a –2 Body penalty to resist other electrical attacks as their skin transmits the shock into their organs more efficiently."

Does this mean that any use of the Electroshock Orthoskin requires you to resist your own attack?  I can't imagine an Electrical Discharge bioware user to be at any more significant risk than say a Shock Hands user but the entry on the Orthoskin upgrade is weird.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <08-05-15/0446:06>
The primary difference is that a shock hand is designed to push the energy through a contained area and outwards, while the full-body discharge transmits that juice all along your entire body as a conductor. That means that you're taking as much hit as the target, but the "pass it on" style of the Orthoskin lowers your own electrical resistance, meaning that less stays with you as it moves on down the line.

Incidently, if you've never seen how much of an Electric Eel's body is dedicated to that zapper organ, you should check it out. It's crazy. Like, 80% of its volume I think. It's like a car battery with a head stuck onto it.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Darzil on <08-05-15/1809:17>
Why wasn't an Augmentation Upgrade Path provided in Chromed Flesh like Magic Types got for their Foci in Street Grimore?

I've asked this before but it's a huge penalty to a Cybered characters Power Curve to rip out 10s of thousands of Nuyen in 'ware to get back 1000s while spending even more 10s of thousands of Nuyen to get new 'ware. It's pretty accepted on the forum that whatever 'ware you start with is pretty much the same 'ware you are going to be using for eternity. Going by the recommended pay scale in SR5. If ¥2000 counts as 1 Karma than every time you replace 'ware, then you are just hemorrhaging Karma to get an Upgrade. It's actually making your Character weaker not stronger by doing so. I understand that it's the Fighters role to get SHAFTED in every game system where they start out strong & quickly get surpassed on the Power Curve by Magic Types.... but giving them an even better Upgrade Path while continuing to punish heavy Augmentation Users is a bit rude really.
It looks a little like something was thought about for this. There is mention on page 19 of old cyberware now being greatly sought after, as more likely CFD free, which could explain old augmentations maybe being worth near what they were at implantation. It could sort this issue out pretty effectively.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-09-15/0501:53>
Why wasn't an Augmentation Upgrade Path provided in Chromed Flesh like Magic Types got for their Foci in Street Grimore?

I've asked this before but it's a huge penalty to a Cybered characters Power Curve to rip out 10s of thousands of Nuyen in 'ware to get back 1000s while spending even more 10s of thousands of Nuyen to get new 'ware. It's pretty accepted on the forum that whatever 'ware you start with is pretty much the same 'ware you are going to be using for eternity. Going by the recommended pay scale in SR5. If ¥2000 counts as 1 Karma than every time you replace 'ware, then you are just hemorrhaging Karma to get an Upgrade. It's actually making your Character weaker not stronger by doing so. I understand that it's the Fighters role to get SHAFTED in every game system where they start out strong & quickly get surpassed on the Power Curve by Magic Types.... but giving them an even better Upgrade Path while continuing to punish heavy Augmentation Users is a bit rude really.
It looks a little like something was thought about for this. There is mention on page 19 of old cyberware now being greatly sought after, as more likely CFD free, which could explain old augmentations maybe being worth near what they were at implantation. It could sort this issue out pretty effectively.

Don't mistake an offhand comment in the Fluff as addressing a fundamental flaw in the game mechanics of Power Curve that goes back 20 years I've been playing  (2nd edition) & was an issue in 1st as well. It's always been houseruled to keep Sams closer to the same curve as Magic users to prevent the game from devolving into Magerun (though 4th was pretty broken and only the cheese abuse possibilities through separate essence holes gave Sams any viability in that system.) But Wakshaani said he was going to look into it which is pretty good.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Darzil on <08-09-15/0510:43>
I'm not. I am saying it's a piece of fluff that could be utilised as in world justification to address that fundamental flaw.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Orudeon on <08-24-15/2103:05>
Quote
Myostatin Inhibitor (p.159)
It increases your Strength by 1 and reduces the Karma cost of increasing your Strength by 2. You are more susceptible to hunger, taking fatigue damage every twelve hours instead of twenty-four, with that damage increasing every three days rather than every six (p. 172, SR5).

Is this "Decrease the karma cost of increasing strength per point by 2" or "Decrease the karma cost of increasing strength by 2 per point"? One results in a 40% discount on increasing strength while the other has greatly diminishing returns e.g. increasing strength from 5 to 6 would cost 18 karma ((5 * 6) - (2 * 6)) vs increasing strength from 5 to 6 would cost 28 karma

EDIT:
Can you buy geneware in grades e.g. standard to deltaware? It wouldn't make much sense to buy Used geneware, but other than that, I can't find anything that says you can't buy it in grades.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-25-15/1543:57>
Quote
Myostatin Inhibitor (p.159)
It increases your Strength by 1 and reduces the Karma cost of increasing your Strength by 2. You are more susceptible to hunger, taking fatigue damage every twelve hours instead of twenty-four, with that damage increasing every three days rather than every six (p. 172, SR5).

Is this "Decrease the karma cost of increasing strength per point by 2" or "Decrease the karma cost of increasing strength by 2 per point"? One results in a 40% discount on increasing strength while the other has greatly diminishing returns e.g. increasing strength from 5 to 6 would cost 18 karma ((5 * 6) - (2 * 6)) vs increasing strength from 5 to 6 would cost 28 karma

EDIT:
Can you buy geneware in grades e.g. standard to deltaware? It wouldn't make much sense to buy Used geneware, but other than that, I can't find anything that says you can't buy it in grades.

To your first question... it's a flat 2 Karma per Strength Increase without the Designer stating otherwise. Not that nifty...

To your 2nd question.... Yes, Geneware (& nanocybernetics) comes in Grades but geneware can't be Used just like Cultured Bioware.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Novocrane on <08-25-15/1923:22>
Quote
Cyberware and bioware implants are available in five distinct grades: standard, alphaware, betaware, deltaware, and used.
Quote
[Nanocybernetics] are cyberware (p. 451, SR5) and follow the basic cyberware rules.  All have an Essence cost and are available in all standard cyberware grades.
Genetech provides no link to bioware as it did in 4e, no mention of grades, and even distances itself from cyberware and bioware.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Hobbes on <08-25-15/2136:26>
Quote
Cyberware and bioware implants are available in five distinct grades: standard, alphaware, betaware, deltaware, and used.
Quote
[Nanocybernetics] are cyberware (p. 451, SR5) and follow the basic cyberware rules.  All have an Essence cost and are available in all standard cyberware grades.
Genetech provides no link to bioware as it did in 4e, no mention of grades, and even distances itself from cyberware and bioware.

Genetech doesn't mention Grades at all so RAW it's only available as listed on the table(s).  RAI and fluffwise the assorted gene techs don't seem to lend themselves to "used" very well as you can't actually rip most of them out and stick them in someone else.  Balance wise I can see not wanting Used quality Genetech as the Essence cost is already very low on most of them.     
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Novocrane on <08-25-15/2320:22>
Precisely. Though I could imagine having a field day with Omega grade.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-26-15/0528:07>
Quote
Cyberware and bioware implants are available in five distinct grades: standard, alphaware, betaware, deltaware, and used.
Quote
[Nanocybernetics] are cyberware (p. 451, SR5) and follow the basic cyberware rules.  All have an Essence cost and are available in all standard cyberware grades.
Genetech provides no link to bioware as it did in 4e, no mention of grades, and even distances itself from cyberware and bioware.

Quoting Core which ONLY had Cyberware & Bioware is a bit facetious, don't you think? Chromed Flesh only addresses Gamma & Omega Grades... it doesn't address the issue, though why they didn't copy and paste it over from 4th is a mystery. Probably the word count got in the way of the Fluff would be my bet. Treating as Cultured Bioware would be appropriate & balanced until (ever?) we get it addressed. If one of the designers gets on here and says that's wrong, I'll disagree silently and do the thing I HATE the most and Houserule. But until that happens it should just be chocked up to a very minimal & slight oversight in comparison to the bleeding problem like Custom Drugs or the Modular Connector vagueness before Wakshaani explained it, which should have been given its own mini section instead of 9 sentences across 3 systems 4 of which are Fluff.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Novocrane on <08-26-15/0534:49>
Quote
Quoting Core which ONLY had Cyberware & Bioware is a bit facetious, don't you think?
Precisely not, for reasons I've already given.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-26-15/0854:22>
Quote
Quoting Core which ONLY had Cyberware & Bioware is a bit facetious, don't you think?
Precisely not, for reasons I've already given.

What reasons? It wasn't mentioned is the entire scope of your reasoning. I conceded the point that it wasn't mentioned but that doesn't change that it could have been a simple oversight or assumption that it would be clear (Wakshaani on the Modular Connector vagueness was from that.) The only thing that you referenced was the quote from Core which only had Cyberware & Bioware then which makes it kinda facetious as the sum total of your point.

At the very least you could claim you character got the Geneware under the old system using Nanites so you can follow 4th edition Rules instead of using the new PSD retro virus method that doesn't explicitly say that it can be done in Grades. Problem through Fluff (since they gave us 2/3 of a book of it) Solved.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Raven2049 on <08-26-15/2045:32>
Now that DT version has got a street date http://www.catalystgamelabs.com/2015/08/26/september-street-dates/ Hopefully we will get some responses within the next month and a few weeks before the remaining few cons of the year so we know whats legal and whats not along with any errata.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Lucean on <08-27-15/0536:15>
Quote
Quoting Core which ONLY had Cyberware & Bioware is a bit facetious, don't you think?
Precisely not, for reasons I've already given.

What reasons? It wasn't mentioned is the entire scope of your reasoning. I conceded the point that it wasn't mentioned but that doesn't change that it could have been a simple oversight or assumption that it would be clear (Wakshaani on the Modular Connector vagueness was from that.) The only thing that you referenced was the quote from Core which only had Cyberware & Bioware then which makes it kinda facetious as the sum total of your point.

At the very least you could claim you character got the Geneware under the old system using Nanites so you can follow 4th edition Rules instead of using the new PSD retro virus method that doesn't explicitly say that it can be done in Grades. Problem through Fluff (since they gave us 2/3 of a book of it) Solved.
New options have to reference the basics. Since Cyber and Bio have been defined and Genetech is neither, they would have needed to repeat the available grades. But as of now Genetech has no connection to the grade rules from the CRB. So Novocrane is right in both responses.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-27-15/1648:54>
Quote
Quoting Core which ONLY had Cyberware & Bioware is a bit facetious, don't you think?
Precisely not, for reasons I've already given.

What reasons? It wasn't mentioned is the entire scope of your reasoning. I conceded the point that it wasn't mentioned but that doesn't change that it could have been a simple oversight or assumption that it would be clear (Wakshaani on the Modular Connector vagueness was from that.) The only thing that you referenced was the quote from Core which only had Cyberware & Bioware then which makes it kinda facetious as the sum total of your point.

At the very least you could claim you character got the Geneware under the old system using Nanites so you can follow 4th edition Rules instead of using the new PSD retro virus method that doesn't explicitly say that it can be done in Grades. Problem through Fluff (since they gave us 2/3 of a book of it) Solved.
New options have to reference the basics. Since Cyber and Bio have been defined and Genetech is neither, they would have needed to repeat the available grades. But as of now Genetech has no connection to the grade rules from the CRB. So Novocrane is right in both responses.

Have I not conceded the point enough...? OK for a third fucking time it's not mentioned!!! This could be due to a oversight or assumption that it was clear are 2 reasons for this being so as it has in other instances before. But even if it is INTENDED under the new PSD process to not come in Grades, that still leaves plenty of room for Houserule that you got it done more than 3 years ago under the Nanite process which did come in Grades during Chargen at least.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-27-15/1659:27>
Real Errata Post

Narco & Stimm Patches. You can create an unintended feedback loop to remove 6S an hour by using Rating 1 Stimm Patches. Rating 1 Stimm Patches removes 1S for 10 minutes & gives back 2S, Narco reduces 2S from a Drug crash. That makes it a net total of -1S every 10 minutes... that's the most efficient way to do it but it will "heal" 1S off every Stimm Patch regardless of Rating.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: prionic6 on <08-28-15/0620:15>
If a player did that at our table they would get whacked with the biggest rule book in reach for 3S damage.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Top Dog on <08-28-15/0629:49>
Ah, so that's what you meant by that.

Stimmpatches aren't drugs. They're not listed under drugs and they don't use their rules. So RAW, it doesn't work. And it's not like you can bring RAI into play here...
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-28-15/1746:43>
Ah, so that's what you meant by that.

Stimmpatches aren't drugs. They're not listed under drugs and they don't use their rules. So RAW, it doesn't work. And it's not like you can bring RAI into play here...

I wish... I hate the new Drug interaction Table & if they make it so I don't have to use it, I'll be super happy. Until then we have RAW...
Quote
Stim patch: This patch removes a number of boxes of Stun damage equal to its Rating. This effect lasts for (Rating x 10) minutes—after that period of time, the pa- tient takes (Rating + 1) unresisted Stun damage (which may be well become physical overflow by that point). While a stimulant patch is in effect, the character is unable to rest. Frequent use of stimulant patches may require Addiction Tests. Treat it as Addiction Rating 2, Addiction Threshold 1.

From Jackpoint conversation about using Stim Patches...
Quote
It isn’t just street drugs. A street samurai I used to run
with used jazz on a regular basis to give him that edge during combat. He once got hit by a spell and was just about knocked out. Then he slapped on a stim patch to counteract the effects and went into cardiac arrest. There’s nothing as hair-raising as doing CPR on
someone in the middle of combat.
> Thorn

So by RAW & Fluff my point is correct.... cheesy, of course but legal.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: ProfGast on <08-28-15/2146:06>
So by RAW & Fluff my point is correct.... cheesy, of course but legal.
Er, Neither of your quotes appear to address Top Dog's statement. 
Quote from: NARCO Chrome Flesh pg 159
Any drug that deals damage when it wears off deals two less damage,
Emphasis mine.  Top Dog's argument is that a Stim Patch is not a Drug, as such, since all street drugs are listed in an effect-by-usage with a full table of boosts and downsides, while a Stim Patch is listed only under Slap Patches at a per-rating listing.  Granted your interpretation might fly for some people but as has been mentioned most tables will apply the thrown rulebook methodology.

In any case your quote of Thorn actually supports Top Dog's interpretation.
Quote from: Thorn, Unknown book or page
It isn’t just street drugs … … Then he slapped on a stim patch…
seems to imply that Stim Patches aren't in fact drugs.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-28-15/2157:09>
So by RAW & Fluff my point is correct.... cheesy, of course but legal.
Er, Neither of your quotes appear to address Top Dog's statement. 
Quote from: NARCO Chrome Flesh pg 159
Any drug that deals damage when it wears off deals two less damage,
Emphasis mine.  Top Dog's argument is that a Stim Patch is not a Drug, as such, since all street drugs are listed in an effect-by-usage with a full table of boosts and downsides, while a Stim Patch is listed only under Slap Patches at a per-rating listing.  Granted your interpretation might fly for some people but as has been mentioned most tables will apply the thrown rulebook methodology.

In any case your quote of Thorn actually supports Top Dog's interpretation.
Quote from: Thorn, Unknown book or page
It isn’t just street drugs … … Then he slapped on a stim patch…
seems to imply that Stim Patches aren't in fact drugs.

So something that has a Drug Addiction Rating & Drug Addiction Threshold as well as being used on the Drug Interaction Table... isn't a Drug? Please explain that logic... Thorn saying that "it's not just street drugs" is saying that Medical Drugs qualify as well. So it reinforces the point most eloquently... but again I'm truly curious at how Stim Patches being specifically stated to be a Drug means it's not a Drug. Just because it's in a different section doesn't mean that it's a different thing when it still has all the same Rules applied.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: ProfGast on <08-28-15/2219:14>
So something that has a Drug Addiction Rating & Drug Addiction Threshold as well as being used on the Drug Interaction Table... isn't a Drug?
Made some minor but important changes there.  There are things that are not "drugs" per se and are also addictive (the easiest example being BTLs.)  In any case like I said, your point is arguable but liable to be booked.

In any case can you give me a reference page for drug interaction?  I admit to having not actually read THAT section in depth but I see no mention of Stimpatches on page 192 under "Drug Interactions"
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-28-15/2346:23>
So something that has a Drug Addiction Rating & Drug Addiction Threshold as well as being used on the Drug Interaction Table... isn't a Drug?
Made some minor but important changes there.  There are things that are not "drugs" per se and are also addictive (the easiest example being BTLs.)  In any case like I said, your point is arguable but liable to be booked.

In any case can you give me a reference page for drug interaction?  I admit to having not actually read THAT section in depth but I see no mention of Stimpatches on page 192 under "Drug Interactions"

Drug interaction Table is on pg 193... Thorn story shows that Stim Patches count for the Drug Interaction Table (+7 on the roll would do it). So Stim Patches have a Drug Addiction Rating & a Drug Addiction Rating.. since they use the Drug Interaction Table. Trauma Patches do so as well... they are all "Drugs" just as much as something like Zero. The "Medicine" a doctor gives you is still a "Drug!" Look I wish I was wrong & you were right by RAW... unfortunately I am right & you are wrong. If Stim Patches got taken off the Drug Interaction Table... I'd be ecstatic!!! Especially if all the Slap Patches were pulled off the DIT cause using them is the not the time I want to be worrying about a bad roll killing me.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: ProfGast on <08-29-15/0029:17>
Ah I see it.  Next time you quote shadowtalk please provide page numbers so we (and possible errata writers) can cross reference.

 Fluff to prove a crunch which is broken by crunch in a different section.  Fair enough.   First it's fluff in my crunch and then its' crunch in my fluff.  Still book-throwing material if I ever did see it.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-29-15/0054:50>
Ah I see it.  Next time you quote shadowtalk please provide page numbers so we (and possible errata writers) can cross reference.

 Fluff to prove a crunch which is broken by crunch in a different section.  Fair enough.   First it's fluff in my crunch and then its' crunch in my fluff.  Still book-throwing material if I ever did see it.

I'm with you... been harping about it since pg. 1 of this thread. Fair enough... my bad for not fully laying out how it all works since you need to connect like 6 different pieces across 2 books to put it all together.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-29-15/0524:41>
Real Errata Clarification Post

I'm looking for Clarification on the Internal Router & SmartLink interaction as far as Wireless Bonuses goes as well as some clean up from contradictory information about how Smartlink/Smartgun functions in SR5.

So Internal Router gives the Smartlink access to the Smartgun System through Datajack/Implanted Commlink... does it provide all Wireless Bonuses because the Smartgun System is Wireless On and doing all the processing for the System?
Quote
This allows the use of some wireless functionality, such as the quick-loading function of a smartgun or the engagement of a smuggling compartment CF pg. 84
Quote
Wireless: A wireless smartlink provides a dice pool bonus to all attacks with the weapon: +1 if you’re using gear with a smartlink or +2 if you’re using an augmen- tation for which you paid Essence. Ejecting a clip and changing fire modes are Free Actions. SR5 pg. 433

I ask this because of the issue I ran across between the Wind section of the Environmental Modifiers saying that it was the Smartlink Accessories doing it but the Smartlink & Smartgun System says that the Smartgun System is doing it. Here's that post as well for clarification of the issue I ran into... I'm probably just over thinking this to hard and making it more complicated than it really is.

Quote
I just reread all the Rules and it is kinda contradictory... the Smartgun System says that it's doing all the calculations and broadcasting the information for the Smartlink to pick up & process
Quote
The system makes use of advanced calculation software, allowing for precisely calculated trajectories and high precision over any distance. SR5 pg. 433
But the Environmental Modifiers on Wind say it's the Smartlink that's doing it (what threw me off)
Quote
Wind modifiers are mitigated by smartlink accessories that calculate adjustments before the shot SR5 pg. 175
yet the Smartlink says that the Smartgun System is doing all the work
Quote
The smartgun will tell you the range to various targets, as well as ammunition level (and type), heat buildup, mechanical stress and so on. Without a smartlink, a smartgun system just sends out data that isn’t received by anyone and has no effect. SR5 pg. 444
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Darzil on <08-29-15/0633:13>
I suspect it's a more general clarification on Internal Router, as it clearly works for some wireless bonuses, but not others, and which isn't clear, so is a lot of GM calls.

The explanation for most wireless bonuses (sometimes in fluff, sometimes in crunch, sometimes by players) was that the device had to rely on distributed processing power or information sources on the Matrix. Some never fitted that well, and would be good candidates for Internal Router.

I hope none of my players want one, don't really want to have to make calls on everything a player considers fitting.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-29-15/0721:45>
I suspect it's a more general clarification on Internal Router, as it clearly works for some wireless bonuses, but not others, and which isn't clear, so is a lot of GM calls.

The explanation for most wireless bonuses (sometimes in fluff, sometimes in crunch, sometimes by players) was that the device had to rely on distributed processing power or information sources on the Matrix. Some never fitted that well, and would be good candidates for Internal Router.

I hope none of my players want one, don't really want to have to make calls on everything a player considers fitting.

Most everything is an easy call... Yes or No. The Smartlink is one of the weird ones in that it should provide all the bonuses but how the Smartlink/Smartgun works is confused even in Core. Yeah you'll have to spend a few minutes going over everything the first time but 'ware like Attention Coprocessor, Increased Hearing Spectrum, Fiber optic Hair, & LED Tattoos need connection to outside databases while 'ware like Eye Light System & Microscopic lenses just reduce Actions by  a step. But I doubt that you are ever going to have much of a problem since it's a very niche piece of 'ware. I built a full 4 cyberlimb Character so it was worth that excessive Essence cost to play with all my gadgets very easily... but in most builds it just isn't worth the essence cost for negligible bonuses.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-30-15/1858:54>
@Wakshanni... why wasn't something like a Skillwire Expert System included? There was a whole lot of focus on trying to bring Skillwires into relevant play but not being able to reroll Edge is kinda punishing for a Skillwire Character? Not being able to reroll failed tests is pretty punishing for a Skillwire focused Character, when a .1 Essence/¥3k piece of 'ware alleviated that issue in 4th.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <08-30-15/2019:50>
I haven't convinced everyone that Skillwires needed help yet. I figured that I could either A) go Expert or B) lower the entry cost, and I went with B for now. Spending Edge on SKillwires removes the one real weakness that they have, but wouldn't really help people buy in sinc ethe system's high cost and availability were the real hamstrings. By dropping the cost and lowering teh availability, it allows for people to dip a toe in (Skilljack 2 opens up Linguasofts and Knowsofts, a HUGE boon for a small cost), go in pretty heavy (Skilljack 4!), or all-in (Skilljack + Skillwirs + Chipjack) ... it nearly creates a new archetype, and certainly opens a lot of doors.

If it *still* isn't enough, some of the other things I proposed (I'd set Activesofts lower in prcie by a tad, for instance) might go in, or, yes, teh Expert System.

I'd rather be too cautious, where we could release another improvement later, than go in too hard and create something that everyone wanted. Keep in mind, I'm not on the rules team, so I tend to play safer with things than some of the others do, and I tend to leave things in GM hands more than some do as well. I was worried about some gear I put forth in Run and Gun, but so far there haven't been *too* many complaints there, other than one being too weak. Teh one I was most worried about I've never seen anyone MENTION, let alone take. So, I guess it was okay. :D
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Hobbes on <08-30-15/2101:40>
I was worried about some gear I put forth in Run and Gun, but so far there haven't been *too* many complaints there, other than one being too weak. Teh one I was most worried about I've never seen anyone MENTION, let alone take. So, I guess it was okay. :D

I can think of a few folks willing to review whatever you have.  For free.  And very nearly instant and vocal.   : )

Or you can keep it to folks who've signed NDAs and been interviewed by the rules team.  I guess.  But what harm can come from pre-releasing unapproved rules to random folks on the internet?    :P
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <08-30-15/2145:30>
Yeah nooooo.

I like my job, thanks. :D
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <08-31-15/0241:47>
I haven't convinced everyone that Skillwires needed help yet. I figured that I could either A) go Expert or B) lower the entry cost, and I went with B for now. Spending Edge on SKillwires removes the one real weakness that they have, but wouldn't really help people buy in sinc ethe system's high cost and availability were the real hamstrings.

Pegasus obviously saw very differently since they reduced the price of Skilljacks down to Rating×¥1000 when they released their version in German. But whoever is saying that a Skillwire Expert System is bad because spending Edge would be game breaking needs to go look at it again. It was there in 4th & Skill Maximum was 6... yet they were still very niche characters. Now the Skill Maximum is 12, that's a whole magnitude of improvement possible whereas before it was possible to be as good as one could possibly get using Skilljacks/wires.

The reduction of Skilljacks from ¥20,000 to ¥10,000 per Rating at least took them from... "HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... FUCK NO!!!!!" down to... "wow... those sucks for Nuyen to Karma benefit" especially when you factor in the Activesoft costs or the Platinum Skill Network that still only goes to 4 but cost ¥20,000 a month. Been trying to make a character but going MbW is the only way that's remotely viable &  even then it's definitely sub-par.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on <08-31-15/1031:56>
I remember hearing skillware was a cheep way of having a skilled labor force, but those costs are crazy. I much prefer the German pricing.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <08-31-15/1705:27>
I remember hearing skillware was a cheep way of having a skilled labor force, but those costs are crazy. I much prefer the German pricing.

That's why I brought Hardwires back. :)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on <08-31-15/2134:49>
Ah, thanks then. Kinda enjoyed the horrible picture of Mega's saying here lie down for your job training. Bone saw? Nope, breath in this real quick. 24hrs later, welcome drone, uploads needed info, your desk is right here.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Slamm-O! on <08-31-15/2349:20>
Junkyard Jaw is .75 Essence and [6] Capacity. 

A Partial Cyberskull is .4 with 4 capacity. 

How can half your head be lower essence than getting your lower jaw and upper teeth taken out ?

I say drop it down to .25, or .5 for the Junkyard Jaw, and using 4 capacity. 

Or upping the partial cyberskull capacity.  right now you can only fit a cyberdeck in there. 

Do we have any idea on what capacity on cybereyes / ears is to implant into a skull ? i assume the same as they carry but you never know.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <09-01-15/1105:21>
There might be skull options added later that up the Capacity.

As for the Jaw, yeah, it's a lot, but there's also a LOT more work going on there than with just a skull plate.

https://www.google.com/search?q=trap+jaw&biw=1348&bih=665&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI2rfso43WxwIVCHg-Ch0CgQ7C

https://www.google.com/search?q=trap+jaw&biw=1348&bih=665&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI2rfso43WxwIVCHg-Ch0CgQ7C#tbm=isch&q=iron+gob

(It maybe should have been .45 like a partial limb, but I needed to trade off a bit for the damage potential it has, so I upped it a tad.)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <09-01-15/1542:43>
Real Errata Clarification Post

Optimized limbs raise the user’s applicable limit by +1 for each limb optimized in that skill.

Munden QuickDraw: A rare entry from Lone Star, the QuickDraw is both fast and accurate. (Pistols)

Since Firearms don't have Limits, does that mean that it applies to Accuracy? Or do you just only get the +1 Die Pool Modifier for 2 Cyberarms?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Slamm-O! on <09-03-15/2351:29>
Pg 87 Grapple Hand - you need Exotic Ranged Weapon (Grapple Gun) for targeting the hand.  What if the hand has a Shock Hand. 

Reach out and BzzzzRrrrrTt. 

Or the Hand has other Cyberweapons.  Spurs, Extreme Weapon mod with a chainsaw that can launch outward etc.

Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Slamm-O! on <09-04-15/0010:26>
Cyberlimbs have capacity and you can add items to them.  Much more useful.  I don't see it costing that much essence or using that much capacity still. 

I can have a Chainsaw hand .5 Essence !? That takes up only 5 capacity ? That does MORE damage.

Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Slamm-O! on <09-04-15/0016:28>
Random Thought:

What happened to the rule you get +2 Damage if you have a pair of cyberweapons.  It might make it worth while to take two then.  Now it's just an essence sink from a mechanical standpoint. 
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <09-04-15/2042:52>
For those curious, I've pushed all teh questions here upstairs Officially.

If there're any new ones, now that the printed copies are out, let me know!

This is the place.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <09-05-15/0058:18>
For those curious, I've pushed all teh questions here upstairs Officially.

If there're any new ones, now that the printed copies are out, let me know!

This is the place.

Even the Drug questions...? Cause we are never been given a single answer about any of the issues with chapter since the very 1st page.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <09-05-15/0842:07>
I highlighted those, as they were something that I couldn't personally give an opinion on, since, you know... not my work.

So, yes, every single question here, including the ones I answered, were passed up, sans my own commentary, to ensure that a value-neutral reading could be made. It'll take some time to process, naturally, since work on (Future Product) is progressing, but as soon as it's available, it'll get dropped in.

Until then, I'll be here to address any other questions I can and take notes. This stuff's important after all!
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Slamm-O! on <09-05-15/1007:56>
Did we ever get an answer on the Run/Walk speed cybernetic vs. natural ?
 
I really want to make a Digigrade-Skimmer legged rocket with maxed cyber agility. 
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Teknodragon on <09-05-15/1330:08>
Thanks, Wakshaani! There's stuff that just plain gets missed sometimes, and it's fun to provide feedback.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <09-05-15/1842:36>
Did we ever get an answer on the Run/Walk speed cybernetic vs. natural ?
 
I really want to make a Digigrade-Skimmer legged rocket with maxed cyber agility.

I need to get me hands on the physical book soon. I'm curious to see exactly where soem of the stuff landed. I know the playtesters changed some stuff... some pieces went up in Essence, Nuyen, or both, while some rules got changed as well. I don't think Skimmers currently grant a stealth penalty, do they?

Regardless, what was the question about Run/Walk speed? A clarification I know that needed to be made was that doubled-double isn't the go to, but rather you use an additive property. That is to say, if you had two augmentations that doubled your speed, it'd actually be 100% speed (normal) + 100% (upgrade #1) + 100% (upgrade #2) = 300% of starting speed, not Speed * 2 * 2, for 400% of starting speed. But that's not laid out anywhere so fell out of the overall list.

At this rate, I might have to write another 10,000 words for Chrome Flesh just to give examples of everything! (Not that I'd mind, as long as they'd pay me. I'll write *anything* if you start tossing cash at me!)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <09-05-15/2115:25>
Did we ever get an answer on the Run/Walk speed cybernetic vs. natural ?

Regardless, what was the question about Run/Walk speed?


The question he's trying to ask is... Do you use Natural Agility or Cyberlegs Agility to determine Movement Rate?

This is part of a very vocal minority whenever the Cyberlimbs threads come up that are not happy about how the Rules read. It's undeniable that by RAW Movement & Physical Limit are governed by Natural Attributes not Cyberlimb Attributes. But what constitutes a Task as opposed to a Test is the part they want to debate about because they want to use Str/Agi as complete dump stats at 1 and then be unhappy that this causes problems. To be fair.... this is a 5th Edition issue since we didn't have Limits & Movement was calculated by Metatype before.

This is pretty much a complete non-issue after Redliner Quality and/or just not having Str/Agi at 1. It did kinda bother me before but Chromed Flesh really made the issues inherent before with just Core SR5 go away is utilized properly.

I really want to make a Digigrade-Skimmer legged rocket with maxed cyber agility.

Partial Cyberlegs in an twinked out elf is how you accomplish this.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Novocrane on <09-05-15/2142:43>
Quote
It's undeniable that by RAW Movement & Physical Limit are governed by Natural Attributes not Cyberlimb Attributes.
If it were undeniable, there wouldn't be anyone questioning it. The hard facts of the matter are that there hasn't been an official statement, that it's possible to interpret in different ways, and that a freelancer unofficially supported one particular stance.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <09-06-15/0006:25>
Quote
It's undeniable that by RAW Movement & Physical Limit are governed by Natural Attributes not Cyberlimb Attributes.
If it were undeniable, there wouldn't be anyone questioning it. The hard facts of the matter are that there hasn't been an official statement, that it's possible to interpret in different ways, and that a freelancer unofficially supported one particular stance.

Not to derail the thread into 5 pages of people who can't/won't accept the rules but here how it's "undeniable"...

Physical Limit
Pg 47
Your character has three inherent limits—Physical, Mental, and Social—that are derived from their attributes (p. 51).

Pg 455
Cyberlimbs have their own Strength and Agility ratings.

Undeniable.

Movement
Pg 62
Characters cannot exceed their calculated Run Rate...

We have already established that Calculation is based upon Natural Attributes not Cyberlimb Attributes. There being no Specific Rule to override the General Rule about Movement, then we are left with the Specific Rule about Cyberlimbs Attributes that say that they aren't used  in Calculations.

Undeniable.


You can ask for a Specific Rule to be added which will change how it currently functions by RAW, cause you don't like it. But don't pretend that it's unclear how it functions by RAW. That's undeniable... that's the most bothersome part about this issue to me. I'm perfectly ok with Houseruling that Movement is based off of Cyberlimb Agility or if they officially changed it for the same effect. It's the pages and pages every time this issue comes up saying that the Rules are unclear, they are very clear... people just don't like the answer.



Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Darzil on <09-06-15/0640:25>
Although I'm very happy to make GM calls on it, as I don't run missions legal stuff, it would be nice to have a call on some common things, maybe as examples, for when to use what stats for cyberlimbs.

So, the example given of Cyberlegs, movement based on body agility (current RAW), average of cyberleg and natural (sounds ungainly), agility unless you have two cyberlegs, then lowest of them (how I'd gm it).

Or consider two handed weapons - average of both arms (how I interpret RAW) or primary arm only, other just used for steadying (how Herolab interprets RAW).

I suspect 4-5 examples could make pages and pages of argument redundant.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <09-06-15/0813:32>
Agreed on examples, and I plan on making quite a few of those. Walking people through a few builds of Modular Limbs, for example.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Novocrane on <09-06-15/0840:24>
Quote
That's undeniable... that's the most bothersome part about this issue to me.
We can agree that this is clearly a bothersome subject for you. I have no intention of arguing over it with you, as you seem to find it difficult to be less than abrasive. Suffice to say I've read the same book, and not reached the same conclusions.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <09-06-15/1556:50>
Quote
That's undeniable... that's the most bothersome part about this issue to me.
We can agree that this is clearly a bothersome subject for you. I have no intention of arguing over it with you, as you seem to find it difficult to be less than abrasive. Suffice to say I've read the same book, and not reached the same conclusions.

Of course not... a debate/argument would require you to refute my points, which you can't do. "Not Liking It" isn't a Logical Point... but still an acceptable position, just go with it.

Hopefully the Examples will fix this... either by changing RAW or by providing even more proof that not liking how the Rules work doesn't change them. I didn't like the Rules about this either but Chromed Flesh fixed all the Balance issues pretty well. Changing the Rules now just means that everyone is going to be running around at 120kph/75mph, which brings up other balance issues.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Novocrane on <09-06-15/2235:58>
Won't != Can't. There's no requirement here for me to deal with your drek directly - particularly when you're so clearly going to be obstinate on the matter.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: I_AM_ZHOUL!!! on <09-07-15/0312:28>
Won't != Can't. There's no requirement here for me to deal with your drek directly - particularly when you're so clearly going to be obstinate on the matter.

Won't = Never Have = Can't
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on <09-07-15/0315:59>
Well nice to see such a friendly and helpful community where we can all discuss out differences intelligently.  ::)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: ZeldaBravo on <09-10-15/1741:44>
A little typo p.87, under Cyberlimb Optimisation:
Kuroko: One of the extremely rare optimized cyber
skulls, Renraku’s Kuoko is fantastic for ease of redesign.
(Disguise)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: ProfGast on <09-18-15/1101:39>
So, the Targeting Laser cyberware acts as a laser sight for any weapon you're holding.  The text on page 77 opens with the following:
Quote
This is a large visible-dot laser (available in your choice of color) built into the user’s trigger hand

So why then is it listed, along with a capacity, under Eyeware?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: SichoPhiend on <09-19-15/1117:35>
Agreed on examples, and I plan on making quite a few of those. Walking people through a few builds of Modular Limbs, for example.

Not to be pushy, as I suspect your a bit busy, but would it be possible to get these examples before Chrome Flesh goes missions legal, it may change how my character develops.

And can you include things like customization and/or cyberlimb optimization in these examples?

And while we're at it, is it possible to have a full obvious modular arm with swap out lower arm and swap it out with a synthetic instead of obvious?  I realize that due to capacity costs that the reverse is likely not possible (though it seems silly that you couldn't have a synthetic upper arm and an obvious lower)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: NoxTheForgotten on <10-06-15/2057:05>
So, the Targeting Laser cyberware acts as a laser sight for any weapon you're holding.  The text on page 77 opens with the following:
Quote
This is a large visible-dot laser (available in your choice of color) built into the user’s trigger hand

So why then is it listed, along with a capacity, under Eyeware?

I agree, this needs clarification. In addition, is it safe to assume that this affects all ranged weapons, such as bows and throwing weapons, as written?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Orudeon on <10-09-15/0225:59>
So, the Targeting Laser cyberware acts as a laser sight for any weapon you're holding.  The text on page 77 opens with the following:
Quote
This is a large visible-dot laser (available in your choice of color) built into the user’s trigger hand

So why then is it listed, along with a capacity, under Eyeware?

I agree, this needs clarification. In addition, is it safe to assume that this affects all ranged weapons, such as bows and throwing weapons, as written?
Probably a carry-over from the laser eye augmentations from 4e that otherwise didn't make it in as-is.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Duellist_D on <10-09-15/1658:55>
So, the Targeting Laser cyberware acts as a laser sight for any weapon you're holding.  The text on page 77 opens with the following:
Quote
This is a large visible-dot laser (available in your choice of color) built into the user’s trigger hand

So why then is it listed, along with a capacity, under Eyeware?

I agree, this needs clarification. In addition, is it safe to assume that this affects all ranged weapons, such as bows and throwing weapons, as written?

Bows and throwing weapons have a heavy ballistic curve, a laserpointer is absolutely useless for that.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Mathias on <10-22-15/1821:08>
pg 152, the Dynamic Handprints and Retinal Adjusters have a Rating of "-", but a cost that includes Rating in its calculations.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Jesentra on <01-02-16/1725:42>
On pg. 122, the Bio-Weapons table has formatting errors with Stingers and Tusks. It shows what appears to be acquisition data (essence, availability, and cost) in the combat data table. I'm guessing those were never supposed to be there.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Gratuitous Boom on <01-03-16/1804:08>
So, the Targeting Laser cyberware acts as a laser sight for any weapon you're holding.  The text on page 77 opens with the following:
Quote
This is a large visible-dot laser (available in your choice of color) built into the user’s trigger hand

So why then is it listed, along with a capacity, under Eyeware?

I agree, this needs clarification. In addition, is it safe to assume that this affects all ranged weapons, such as bows and throwing weapons, as written?

Bows and throwing weapons have a heavy ballistic curve, a laserpointer is absolutely useless for that.

Bows and Crossbows have a parabolic trajectory beyond short range (Hard Targets pg. 197). Laser sights provide bonuses within short range.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: gradivus on <01-06-16/0840:52>
So, the Targeting Laser cyberware acts as a laser sight for any weapon you're holding.  The text on page 77 opens with the following:
Quote
This is a large visible-dot laser (available in your choice of color) built into the user’s trigger hand

So why then is it listed, along with a capacity, under Eyeware?

I agree, this needs clarification. In addition, is it safe to assume that this affects all ranged weapons, such as bows and throwing weapons, as written?

Bows and throwing weapons have a heavy ballistic curve, a laserpointer is absolutely useless for that.

Bows and Crossbows have a parabolic trajectory beyond short range (Hard Targets pg. 197). Laser sights provide bonuses within short range.
[/quote

generally speaking bullets also have a parabolic trajectory- but let's not mix in real life physics with SR reasoning.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <01-06-16/0855:11>
gradivus
Boom is quoting the "Expanded Bow Rules" from Hard Target there.

Quote from: Hard Targets p. 197, Expanded Bow Rules
With any bow or crossbow, a laser sight is ineffective at any range beyond Short due to parabolic nature of the projectiles.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Sendaz on <01-06-16/1117:02>
Mungo never noticed pair of bollock tragic rectory when he shoots his crossbow.

When Mungo shoots through brick wall or a car with it the hole is usually right where the light from the flashlight that Mungo taped onto the crossbow was pointed.

Maybe it's cuz Mungo uses expanded crossbow that Mungo built himself or maybe Mungo needs to go outside city to try it.

Though everyone keeps calling it ballsi something, which is okay cuz it is ballzy like Mungo  ;D
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on <01-06-16/1648:30>
Mungo, I like you. Keep it real, brother. Remember, shoot straight and make a big boom when needed!
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Sphinx on <01-21-16/1229:52>
Pages 11 and 16, remove the space from “DangerSensei”
Page 12, change “/dev/girl” to “/dev/grrl”
Page 17, “FastJack” should have an interior capital J.
Page 17, change “Ingersoil” to “Ingersoll”
Page 18, change “contracted” to “exhibited” (you don’t contract symptoms).
Page 19, change “bridging” to “bribing”
Page 54/55, What’s the karma cost of “Cyber Singularity Seeker”? 12 (page 54) or 9 (page 55)?
Page 55, fix the spelling of “Biocompatibility”
Page 65, change “Lenora” to “Leonora”
Page 78, change “thenext” to “the next” (insert space)
Page 80, Orientation System, change “imagelink” to “image link” and “cyber-eyes” to “cybereyes”
Page 129, plural possessive: “guards’ links”
Page 129, change “hs” to “his”
Page 131, change “it’s finest scale” to “its finest scale” (no apostrophe).
Page 133, change “it’s intended purpose” to “its intended purpose” (no apostrophe).
Page 135, change “a amorphous blob” to “an amorphous blob”
Page 137, change “complimentary” to “complementary”
Page 138, lowercase “of” in “Man-of-Many-Names”
Page 143, change “onstructor” to “constructor”
Page 144, change “a injection” to “an injection”
Page 147, change “a devices” to “a device
Page 150, the title of this table should be “Soft Nanoware Systems” (Hard Nanoware was on p.148).
Page 154, change “Essence” to “Availability” at the top of the third column
Page 154, Universal Sealant, change “increasing” to “increasingly”
Page 159, change “Exotice” to “Exotic” (twice).
Page 160, change “Trangenics” to “Transgenics”
Page 160, change “Eythropoetin (EPO)” to “Erythropoietin (EPO)”
Page 160, change “insuring” to “ensuring”
Page 164, Immunization, change “infers” to “confers”
Page 164, fix the spelling of “bioluminescent” and “fluorescent”
Page 165-166, change “complimentary” to “complementary” (three times)
Page 216, change “remained  focused” to “remain focused”
Page 217, “Market Forecasting and Information Department (MFID)”
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Duellist_D on <01-28-16/1213:09>
Took a peek at my german ChromeFlesh (Bodyshop).

Have to go in a few minutes, so only a slight peek, but it looks very promissing.
Notable errata that i stumbled upon:

Hardwires (both for active and knowledgesofts) now EXPLICITELY include the Skillsoft needed, prices are 4000xRating for the Hardwire, 2000xrating for the Knowledge Version.
Excellent, makes this things pretty usefull.

The targeting laser is now a  Bodyware

There is an optional rule for the bodylimit:
If you have 4 cyberlimbs, you can now use their stats for the physical limit

Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: jim1701 on <01-28-16/1225:24>
Hardwires (both for active and knowledgesofts) now EXPLICITELY include the Skillsoft needed, prices are 4000xRating for the Hardwire, 2000xrating for the Knowledge Version.
Excellent, makes this things pretty usefull.

Go ahead, pour salt in the wound why don't you.    :(
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Medicineman on <01-28-16/1227:11>
Duellist, don't tell Jim about the Price ....

with a salty Dance
Medicineman
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on <01-28-16/1238:07>
What about the price?
20€ are quite fair for an updated and well translated source book
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: jim1701 on <01-28-16/1301:10>
Well, IMO the quality of 5th edition books isn't worth the price of the dead tree versions so other than the CRB I've only bought the PDF versions so that doesn't bother me too much.  Probably just need to bone up on my German.   ;D
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on <01-28-16/1349:16>
Called it...
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <01-28-16/1356:53>
Hardwires (both for active and knowledgesofts) now EXPLICITELY include the Skillsoft needed, prices are 4000xRating for the Hardwire, 2000xrating for the Knowledge Version.
Excellent, makes this things pretty usefull.
Nice, that does make them a lot more attractive.

There is an optional rule for the bodylimit:
If you have 4 cyberlimbs, you can now use their stats for the physical limit
This is huge, and should have been in SR5 core if you ask me. I wonder why this didn't make it into the English version; clearly, if you're more machine than man it makes perfect sense your cybernetic limbs count for the purposes of calculating limits. Thanks for passing this info along!
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: odd on <01-28-16/1533:10>
Well, IMO the quality of 5th edition books isn't worth the price of the dead tree versions so other than the CRB I've only bought the PDF versions so that doesn't bother me too much.  Probably just need to bone up on my German.   ;D

You could also see how well google translate does on it.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Duellist_D on <01-28-16/1904:59>
Okay, back at home, had a bit of time to read in the book on my way.

A few more things that are probably interesting:

- The Rules for upgrading Cyberware from the FAQ are now "official", as in, they are printed in the book as optional rules.
a) You can sell Bodyteck EXCEPT Geneware for 30% of its price
b) If you want to upgrade Cyberware to a higher level, you pay the difference in price for the two levels + 20% for getting it implanted. So reflex boosters Lvl II=>III is (217.000Y-149.000Y)x1,2 = 81.600Y
c) Explicit Ruleblock on Essenzholes, to clarify what everybody implicitely new. They work like you think they do. Rip *Ware out, it leaves a hole that you can fiill

- Move-By-Wire has now a on/off switch, both manual and WiFi (Complex/Normal Action)

- Clarification on how Adapsin works: You get an additional 10% reduction on the Essencost AFTER Grade Modification is applied, and of course, only for ware that gets installed AFTER the treatment.
So, Alphaware Full-Cyberarm => 1,0x0,8 = 0,8 Then -10% from Adapsin => 0,72 Essencost (this is stated explicitely with an example).

- Internal Router is still a bit fishy. Basically, you can use it for all Boni that aren't relying on external network information. So, faster opening of a smuggling compartment, yes, downloading of software no.
You are however explicitely allowed to extend the System via stuff like Datajacks to extend the functionality to Items that aren't implanted into your body.
(Yay for wires)

- Not sure whether this was already in the original ChromeFlesh (to tired atm to look it up): You can't but strength or agility enhancements into cybertorsos or Cyberskulls, since they aren't replacmenets but casings.

- Partial Cyberskull now only has a capacity of 3 (maybe a typo?)

- They forgot to fix Cybersnob, its still talking about betaware (hopefully an oversight)

Might be worth to take a look at the differences between the wordings of the german and english descriptions of the specific gentechs, but not today.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: falar on <01-29-16/0945:41>
Could you look at the Biocompatibility quality and how it works?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Finstersang on <01-30-16/1344:45>
Hardwires (both for active and knowledgesofts) now EXPLICITELY include the Skillsoft needed, prices are 4000xRating for the Hardwire, 2000xrating for the Knowledge Version.
Excellent, makes this things pretty usefull.

Makes sense, since the "german" Skilljack also has a much more reasonable price of 2000€ per rating, making skillsoft-based builds more usefull.

(Hmm, maybe I should´ve waited for the german versions of drekfest sourcebooks like Rigger 5.0 instead of grabbing these hair-raising english pdfs :o)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Medicineman on <01-31-16/0447:35>
and they're capped at 6
Which made it necessary for me to rearrange 2 Chars :(

with a not so happy Dance
Medicineman
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: ScytheKnight on <01-31-16/0513:44>
and they're capped at 6
Which made it necessary for me to rearrange 2 Chars :(

with a not so happy Dance
Medicineman

Even the English version pointed out skillsofts where capped at Rating 6
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Medicineman on <01-31-16/0620:20>
and they're capped at 6
Which made it necessary for me to rearrange 2 Chars :(

with a not so happy Dance
Medicineman

Even the English version pointed out skillsofts where capped at Rating 6

Skillsoft yeah, sure
but not Hardwired Skills
it's different 'ware with different inherent Rules  ;)
Anyway, I retconned my two Chars and now everything is Ok

HokaHey
Medicineman
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <01-31-16/0842:01>
Hey Duelist, could you check the custom drug tables in the German version? I'm curious if the addiction thresholds and addiction ratings have been modified from the crazy levels of the English version.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Duellist_D on <01-31-16/1536:18>
Could you look at the Biocompatibility quality and how it works?

Sadly, they copypasted the same crap that was in Chromeflesh, so you get the not-really-clear rule of "10% reduction (same math as with Adapsin) then round down to the nearest ten.

Major thumb down for that.


and they're capped at 6
Which made it necessary for me to rearrange 2 Chars :(

with a not so happy Dance
Medicineman

Even the English version pointed out skillsofts where capped at Rating 6

Skillsoft yeah, sure
but not Hardwired Skills
it's different 'ware with different inherent Rules  ;)
Anyway, I retconned my two Chars and now everything is Ok

HokaHey
Medicineman

The Skillwires had no Skillcap, true, but they required additional Skillsofts in the english Version and these always had a max-rating of 6.
So, you could, in theory, but in a R12 Hardware in your body, but still would have had only R6 Softs to run on them.


Hey Duelist, could you check the custom drug tables in the German version? I'm curious if the addiction thresholds and addiction ratings have been modified from the crazy levels of the English version.

The only change in the table seems to be that they switched out all Asterisks for hyphens, in the table.

Foundations are still 6/2, Enhancer +1/+1, costs and Availability modifiers are also the same.
So the Addiction ratings and Threshholds can still skyrocket quite easily, but keep in mind that the german rules for Drug consumption are a bit different. Not sure if this is good or bad in this particular case, only ever bothered with Cram.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: KarmaInferno on <02-12-16/2311:25>
On pg. 122, the Bio-Weapons table has formatting errors with Stingers and Tusks. It shows what appears to be acquisition data (essence, availability, and cost) in the combat data table. I'm guessing those were never supposed to be there.

Wait, you mean Tusks aren't supposed to have a four meter reach and inflict 10,000¥ damage per bite?

:)


-k
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <02-13-16/1400:42>
For the record, the concept of money-chomping cyber is probably the most terrifying thing for many a player. :D
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Oben on <02-19-16/0907:59>
Any word on when the Chrome Flesh errata will be available?

Or is there another source for getting the cost and specs on the SR5 Encephalon?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Oben on <02-29-16/1342:55>
Bueller.

Bueller.

Bueller?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Novocrane on <02-29-16/1935:32>
http://criticalglitch.com/?page_id=563

Is this still accurate, despite not being updated in over six months? I wouldn't hold your breath.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Wakshaani on <03-01-16/0116:23>
...

Ouch.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Novocrane on <03-01-16/0154:26>
Another six months, and we're looking two years back for the last proper errata release noted on Crit Glitch .

That's 'ouch', eh?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <04-09-16/1828:45>
Nephritic Screen states that it adds "its Rating as a dice pool bonus to Toxin Resistance or Disease Resistance tests". Do you have to choose whether the nephritic screen adds to Toxin or Disease at the time of purchase, or should that read "Toxin Resistance and Disease Resistance tests"?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Jack_Spade on <04-12-16/1056:29>
I'd say that is a classical including "or" since you usually don't roll combined disease and toxin tests  ;)
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <04-12-16/1247:11>
Absolutely, Jack_Spade. We've ruled it as applying to both, but I'd prefer it get clarified (at some point).
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Glyph on <04-24-16/1747:39>
The cyber-snob quality requires that the character start out with at least one Essence point's worth of betaware-grade 'ware.  However, characters are limited to used/omegaware, standard, and alphaware at character creation.  Prime runner play and the restricted gear quality don't change this - they only raise availability limits.  So, it is such a snooty quality that you can't even take it...?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Medicineman on <04-25-16/0257:25>
The cyber-snob quality requires that the character start out with at least one Essence point's worth of betaware-grade 'ware.  However, characters are limited to used/omegaware, standard, and alphaware at character creation.  Prime runner play and the restricted gear quality don't change this - they only raise availability limits.  So, it is such a snooty quality that you can't even take it...?
Its a case for Errata .
Cybersnob's supposed to crave Alphaware at least ;)
(I'm quite disappointed at Pegasus because that slipped by the German books too)

Hough
Medicineman
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Dinendae on <04-25-16/2226:45>
The cyber-snob quality requires that the character start out with at least one Essence point's worth of betaware-grade 'ware.  However, characters are limited to used/omegaware, standard, and alphaware at character creation.  Prime runner play and the restricted gear quality don't change this - they only raise availability limits.  So, it is such a snooty quality that you can't even take it...?
Its a case for Errata .
Cybersnob's supposed to crave Alphaware at least ;)
(I'm quite disappointed at Pegasus because that slipped by the German books too)

Hough
Medicineman


So depressed you forgot to dance this post?  :-\
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Medicineman on <04-26-16/0246:11>
>>> So depressed you forgot to dance this post?

Naaah ;)
Its a bit more difficult to find a suitable or funny Dance in English, so on foreign Forums I more often Hough or HeyaHeyaHej than do Matrix Dances.
And I'm not really depressed because I know the Truth behind it. :)

with a True & Offtopic Dance
Medicineman
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Adamo1618 on <05-03-16/0603:50>
Quote
UNIVERSAL SEALANT
This nanotech application is used extensively in space and undersea habitats and is becoming increasing common in a number of fields. It employs nanites suspended in a polymer gel/foam that hardens upon contact with air.

How the F does it work in space when it hardens in air?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Coyote on <05-03-16/1019:26>
Quote
UNIVERSAL SEALANT
This nanotech application is used extensively in space and undersea habitats and is becoming increasing common in a number of fields. It employs nanites suspended in a polymer gel/foam that hardens upon contact with air.

How the F does it work in space when it hardens in air?

It's used in space and undersea HABITATS, not in space and in water. Basically, if you're in a space or undersea habitat and a leak is sprung somewhere (like by some shadowrunners without the sense to use gel and/or flechette rounds), you spray this on the leak and it seals it. The air that hardens it is on the inside of the habitat, and you're using it on the inside of the habitat.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Finstersang on <12-15-16/1705:13>
On P. 93, a comment by Glitch mentions the Encephalon Bioware. However, it´s not mentioned elsewhere in any of the current SR5s books.

As far as I know, this was a quite common Hacker/Thinktank augmentation in previous editions. Maybe not as iconic as Wired Reflexes or Cyberspurs, but also nothing obscure. Maybe it was forgotten in SR5?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Sphinx on <12-15-16/2228:26>
Glitch misspoke. Encephalon has always been cyberware, not bioware. It hasn't been updated for SR5 yet, as far as I can tell, but the SR4 version seems reasonably compatible.
SR4 Augmentation, p.36
SR3 Man & Machine, p.20
SR1 Shadowtech, p.49
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Xexanoth on <01-18-17/1248:45>
Page 161/162 Qualia, a transgenic that boost all Intuition SKILL related test by +1(so basicially Perception and maybe Disguise/Assensing) has an essence cost of 0.4.
This should be a lot cheaper considering
1. the rather minor Bonus(it's only skills so no Ini or Defense bonus)
2. the fact that a Cerebellum Booster give +1 Intuition for 50k and 0.2 Essence and isn't limited to just skills.
3. that the other Transgenics that have similar effect are at 0.1/0.2 Essence.
4. Perception can easily be buffed more for a lot less.

On the other hand, PuSHED(Page 160/162), the Bonus for +1 to all Logic Skill Tests seems rather cheap for 0.1 Essence, when it basicially gives Deckers a +1 to all main skills and +1 on a lot of Rigger skills.
(not to mention the amount of Logic skills in general).
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Ghost Rigger on <03-03-17/1213:57>
The cyber-snob quality requires that the character start out with at least one Essence point's worth of betaware-grade 'ware.  However, characters are limited to used/omegaware, standard, and alphaware at character creation.  Prime runner play and the restricted gear quality don't change this - they only raise availability limits.  So, it is such a snooty quality that you can't even take it...?
Its a case for Errata .
Cybersnob's supposed to crave Alphaware at least ;)
(I'm quite disappointed at Pegasus because that slipped by the German books too)

Hough
Medicineman
Necroposting, but I interpreted Cybersnob as the one negative quality you'd get karma for if you took it post-chargen. Betaware is so expensive and access to betaware clinics do restricted that getting the prerequisites to be a Cybersnob in the first place is an impressive feat in and of itself that deserves a bonus reward, especially if you're a streetsam packed to the brim with 'ware.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Chummer 5 is Alive on <04-22-17/2051:49>
Synaptic Acceleration states that it doesn't work if you have augmentations that also increase Initiative Dice; does this include magical effects or drugs? In either case, does it negate the entire bonus or just the initiative dice?
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <05-12-17/1620:13>
...
While I'm loath to post in Errata with absolutely no Errata to report; Augmentations are technical augmentations. Magic and drugs are, generally , not augmentations.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: on <05-12-17/2112:44>
I think the intention is blanket term all "unnatural" increases as boosts to rectify that.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: Kiirnodel on <05-12-17/2153:56>
I think the intention is blanket term all "unnatural" increases as boosts to rectify that.

Not sure where you get the idea that "augmentation that increases their Initiative or grants any Initiative Dice" should mean a blanket term.

The restriction in Synaptic Acceleration is written in the exact same way that all of the other geneware restrictions are listed:


So it means just that, if the character has an augmentation (cyberware, bioware, basically anything implanted) that affects the system described (bones, skin, initiative), then you lose the effects of the geneware. In the case of Synaptic Acceleration, that would mean everything, the geneware has no effect.
Title: Re: Chrome Flesh Errata
Post by: on <05-12-17/2307:45>
My bad :P I read that as Synaptic Booster.  Yeah Geneware doesn't play well with others.