Shadowrun
Shadowrun Missions Living Campaign => Living Campaign Discussion => Topic started by: Marcus on <06-10-15/1251:46>
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Are the Cyber Suites from lockdown going to be legal in Missions?
I did search this before asking, but apologize if this is the 100th time this question has been asked.
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It hasn't been asked actually.. but I think most people where aware that with Data Trails coming out shortly after Lockdown, answers would come with the FAQ update for Data Trails.
That and many people have a very negative outlook on them...
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now I need to look at lockdown
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That and many people have a very negative outlook on them...
Why? They Seem fine to me. I mean your never going to get everything you want in a suite, but all these are reasonable. The Very top end are cool and crazy, I doubt those are intended for PCs.
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That and many people have a very negative outlook on them...
Why? They Seem fine to me. I mean your never going to get everything you want in a suite, but all these are reasonable. The Very top end are cool and crazy, I doubt those are intended for PCs.
That's my take on them as well, they're something the corps use for their own security teams, we as shadowrunners just (mis)use them... but it seems that a lot of people don't like how 'useless' they are for street sams.
To me they seem an ideal solution for someone who wants some general purpose augmentations without a heavy essence cost.
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I mean Spinrad peak performance is basically everything you need on a sam,
Wired 1, reaction enhancers 2, aluminum reinforced, muscle replacement 2, eyes 3, and ears 2.
That's as good a package as any i have ever seen, yeah spendy, and it essence heavy to, but it's a very solid load out.
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And let's not forget Mental Gymnasts or Front Line Mind for a decker.
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I think the best mitigating factor with these is that you cannot get any other cyber ware without replacing the whole package. Balances out the cost savings, in my opinion.
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My interpretation of that was you could not add anything to the system. Not that you could not get any other wear, though I can certainly understand how you arrive at that conclusion. It's a point that will need to be addressed, I going based upon how suites used to work but I could easily be wrong about that in 5th.
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It's pretty clear that you're unable to install any other augmentations alongside a suit.
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That and many people have a very negative outlook on them...
Why? They Seem fine to me. I mean your never going to get everything you want in a suite, but all these are reasonable. The Very top end are cool and crazy, I doubt those are intended for PCs.
That's my take on them as well, they're something the corps use for their own security teams, we as shadowrunners just (mis)use them... but it seems that a lot of people don't like how 'useless' they are for street sams.
To me they seem an ideal solution for someone who wants some general purpose augmentations without a heavy essence cost.
I've seen some comparisons and from what I understand you pay more in nuyen - sometimes a lot more - for a small decrease in Essence. Except, Essence cost doesn't really matter (unless it'd go over 6, which most of them don't) because you can't add anything else anyway. Not to mention that with some Alphaware mixed in you could probably get to the same cost anyway.
There are some that you might use - ones that go over 6 essence when seperated out for example - but those are hugely expensive to. By and large, this is something players will never use.
Of course, GM's have an easy way to install a bunch of 'ware now.
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There's some pretty good 1 or 2 Essence packs for Awakened/Emerged characters there.
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If you look at the peak performance done by component your looking at 147.5k and costs you 6.3 essence, which is .4 more then a character can lose, the suite value is broken down it would come down to paying 47.5k for 1.3 saved essence, which saves the characters life. I think it's a decent deal.
After re-reading the section i missed the nothing else works part, as you guys pointed out, and I agree that such thing do make the low end suites non-useful. But the medium to high end seem solid to me.
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If you look at the peak performance done by component your looking at 147.5k and costs you 6.3 essence, which is .4 more then a character can lose, the suite value is broken down it would come down to paying 47.5k for 1.3 saved essence, which saves the characters life. I think it's a decent deal.
After re-reading the section i missed the nothing else works part, as you guys pointed out, and I agree that such thing do make the low end suites non-useful. But the medium to high end seem solid to me.
And nothing in there can be Alphaware'd to end up at <6 essence with nuyen left over?
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Well, If you take the Evo BtH (f.E.) it costs 4.5 Essence instead of 6.5 Essence for all the seperate Pieces and it costs 275K instead of apr 220 K seperately
and since it is Cyberware you can get Alpha Suits too( no mention that you can't get a Suit as Alphaware)
if you have other Cyberware installed before it just ceases working ( the Gods know why)
AND could somebody please explain why & how Reaction Enhancer and Synaptic Booster can interact at all ?
there are a lot of unanswered questions about the Suites
I am quite astonished to hear & read about the Cybersuites. I expected them in the future Cyberwarebook....
with a surprised Dance
Medicineman
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Well, If you take the Evo BtH (f.E.) it costs 4.5 Essence instead of 6.5 Essence for all the seperate Pieces and it costs 275K instead of apr 220 K seperately
and since it is Cyberware you can get Alpha Suits too( no mention that you can't get a Suit as Alphaware)
if you have other Cyberware installed before it just ceases working ( the Gods know why)
AND could somebody please explain why & how Reaction Enhancer and Synaptic Booster can interact at all ?
there are a lot of unanswered questions about the Suites
I am quite astonished to hear & read about the Cybersuites. I expected them in the future Cyberwarebook....
with a surprised Dance
Medicineman
But why would you get an Alphaware cybersuite? What would you use the extra essence for?
Anyway like I said, there are some that exceed normal Essence maximums that might be useful to the rare individual runner. But for the most part that's not the case.
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But why would you get an Alphaware cybersuite? What would you use the extra essence for?
An Awakened with an Alphasuite ( 3.6 Essence Cost) still hs 2.4 Essence left over and a Max MAG of 2
The Abu Nai Suit costs 3.5 Essence instead of 4.7 ( all Parts seperate)
an Alpha Suit is 2.8 Essence so you still have ESS 3+ left over instead of Ess 1+ without the Suit ( for appr 100 K more)
Imagine a Troll cybered Adept with Ess & MAG 3 and the Abu Nai Suite....... Awesome Combination (ImO) !
AND incompatibility means by RAW (correct me if I'm wrong) that you can't use both parts, but you can still use either or.
so you can still have other ' ware implanted before (a Riggercontrol 2 or 3 Beta f.E. ) and use this 'ware or you switch to the Evo BtH Suit.....
HokaHey
Medicineman
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AND incompatibility means by RAW (correct me if I'm wrong) that you can't use both parts, but you can still use either or.
No getting around it with tricky words. ;)
Any augmentations in place at the same time as the suite, whether installed before or after the suite, cannot function as long as the suite is in place
the Gods know why
I'd assume it's a matter of going minimalist with hardwiring. Lack of redundancy means you can't just rely on multiple parts that take over if one breaks or glitches slightly. Fewer parts installed = lower essence loss. More durable parts installed = higher nuyen costs.
I'm in favour of 5e cybersuites, even if they are currently for those that want to fit more 'ware into a point or two. Maybe in Chrome Flesh we'll see stuff only cyberzombies of old could take, and the street samurai will pipe down.
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No getting around it with tricky words.
Never wanted to do that. I just didn't know exactly !
See , I don't have the Boston Lockdown myself (I'm weaiting for the German Version) I only have Excerpts !
OK no switching to other 'ware. Lets forget that Idea :)
Some Alpha Suites would still be Awesome for an Adept or cybered Combat Mage....
I'm in favour of 5e cybersuites,
I am really not sure ,
to me they seem to be just a boost for NPCs because most of the suits are either tooo expensive, too restrictive (now that I know that you can't even switch even more !) too unavailiable etc for most Chars.
Hell, to get an Alpha Abu Nai or BtH you need 1/2 Mio ¥ and a World class Cyberclinic ( best would be Delta)
out of the Reach for most Chars (ImO)
You could, If You Min/Max , use a Suite for certain Concepts , but sooner or Later someone labels you as a Powergamer just because you use that what CGL hands out( just because you want to try out a New concept or use some Synergies)...
Especially if You use a Cybersuite and suddenly Reaction Enhancer an a Synaptic booster (Cyber AND Bioware Which by RAW can't interact ) work together and other new Bonuses that a Suite offers....
with NO Powerdance
Medicineman
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Well, I withdraw any assumptions behind previous comments. ;)
I'm fairly sure cybersuites don't circumvent internal incompatibilities, either, which makes that example troublesome.
They're also not the worst thing you can offer a runner as a corporate reward or bribe - high first purchase price, low resale value, all kinds of opportunity for backdoors and tracking ...
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Well... actually isn't it a case of largest bonus takes precedence> The only place i see it is in Better than Human so... it seems like a case of rating 1 Synaptic Booster for + 1D6 Initiative and rating 3 Reaction Enhancer for +3 Reflexes.
So they're not stacking, but being used for separate, overlapping bonuses.
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If you do out the alpha components math, you can manage to get the same setup and stay alive, and be inside the legality code, your going to have .2 essence, and you save about 30k. If you go to the same availability as the system you can do slightly better about .7 essence though then you save only about 15k.
It's interest It comes down to how much essence you would prefer to save, and how much your willing to pay for it.
I think the suites have value, we will see what Chromeflesh does to the equation.
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Burnout way would work with restricted gear but as someone pointed out it easier and cheaper to buy what you wanted from the suite.