Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Hobbes on (18:06:22/03-07-15)

Title: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (18:06:22/03-07-15)
Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class

Hoi!

First things first thanks to Triskavanski  and this 
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=16224.msg285388#msg285388

That got me started. 

I'm going to show you how Technomancers can routinely throw 16+ dice at most Matrix actions, and as a bonus not be a complete victim in meat space.  There will be some tips on pet class etiquette and how to cope with your first run as well. 

Character generation, Priorities.

   Resonance:  A, B, or C – With a B or C make sure you've got enough special attributes from Metatype to get Resonance up to 6.  Complex forms are cheaper than stats or skills and you really only need a couple.  The skill points are great, but you're likely trading off more overall points compared to bumping up your Skill priority.  My own recommendation is C or A, depending on Metatype priority.

   Attributes: A or B – or go home.  You're going to want 5 points for Will, 4 each for Int and Logic.  13 points right there.  A for Humans, B for other Metatypes. 

   Metatype: D or C.  D Human (3)  is my recommendation, but Elf or Dwarf at C will work well too.

   Skills: Highest you've got left after other priorities.  B for Humans likely, D for Metas.

   Tech: E.  Sorry, you're broke.  Something has to have an E.

   So for a Human Technomancer I'd go with
Attributes: A; Skills: B; Resonance: C; Metatype: D; Resources: E

   Dwarf
Attributes: A; Skills: D; Resonance: C; Metatype: B; Resources: E

   You could also get by with Elf (or other Meta) at D
Resonance:A; Attributes: B; Skills C; Meta D; Resources E.

   Metavariant notes; you may need to put Resonance at A to make up for lack of special attributes.  But a Dwarf with the bonus to will power and body, or an Elf with Charisma and Agility can certainly be viable.  You'll may be a min Charisma Elf or a really skinny Dwarf, but you'll still be able to max out the important Technomancer stats. 

Stat allocating:

   Willpower is king for the Petnomancer.  It should be your racial max.  Int and Logic are next and should get 4 points each.  Charisma 2 at least, 3 if you can.  Agility, Reaction, Body try to get to 3, Strength 1.  You're a 12 year old girl, get over it. 

   As stated above, non-human metatypes may be leaving some stats at racial min.  Elf with Charisma 3, Dwarf with a Body 3 for example, but you'll need the stat points elsewhere. 

Examples:
Human stat array (Priority A stats, D Metatype, C Resonance, B Skills)
B:3 A:5 R:5 S:1 W:6 L:5 I:5 C:2  Edge 2 Resonance 6 
or
B:3 A:4 R:4 S:1 W:6 L:5 I:5 C:4 Edge 2 Resonance 6

Elf (Priority A Resonance; B Stats; D Meta; C Skills)
B:3 A:4 R:4 S:1 W:6 L:5 I:5 C:3 Edge 1 Resonance 6 – Buy another point of Edge with Karma at chargen is recommended. 

Dwarf  (Attributes: A; Skills: D; Resonance: C; Metatype: B; Resources: E)
B:3 A:5 R:5 S:3 W:8 L:5 I:5 C:2  - with 2 more points to spend.  Edge 2 Resonance 6.  Buy another point of Edge with Karma highly recommended.


Skill Allocating:


   You need Compiling, Registering, and Software at 6.  So 18 points.  After that (in no particular order)
Electronic Warfare
Computer
Cybercombat
Hacking

Other skills you'll consider:
Pistol or Automatic
Sneaking

One point wonders to buy with Karma early or at chargen
Palming, Gymnastics, Forgery, Perception.

   Meta's with a D in skills have some hard choices to make here.  For example
Compiling 6  (From Resonance A +1 skill point)
Registering 6 (From Resonance A +1 skill point)
Software, Computer, Electronic Warfare, Hacking at 5.

   Grab Cybercombat and a gun skill with Karma, possibly specialize.  For 22 Karma a Dwarf could have Pistols (SemiAuto) 2 (4) and Cybercombat (IC) 2 (4).  Not the best but workable. 

   Humans with a 36/5 are pretty straight forward:
Cracking group at 5, Registering, Compiling, Software, Computer at 6.  And you've got points to burn.  Grab a gun skill up to 6, possibly sneaking, or throw around some specializations. 

   If you wound up with a C ; 28/2 and an A Resonance you're in fine shape too.
Compiling, Registering; Software at 6. (8 points spent)
Computer, Electronic Warfare, Hacking, Cybercombat at 5.  And 2 group points to spend.  If you've got the Karma, Cracking skill group at 2 and then 35 Karma gets you to 4.  Frees up 15! skill points.  Two more maxed out skills and a three specializations?  Something to think about. 


Qualities: 

   
   Focused Concentration of level 1.  Just take it, you'll need it later.  Consider it required.
Trust Fund.  You've got E Resources, but still want to live indoors?  Trust Fund if it fits your concept. 

   Lots of other positive qualities are tempting but likely your Karma is better spent elsewhere, especially if you're a Metahuman. 

   Negative qualities:  In Debt of 2 to 4 levels is fine.  Gets you that Runner Starting kit, and you're not doing much with your cash after.  Its better than burning starting Karma on cash.  Codeblock Set Databomb is an easy one.  Hide is funny (you'll see why later).  Its pretty easy points if you're struggling to come up with something. 


Complex Forums:


   Static Veil – Required.  You'll be firing this one off as soon as you wake up and most times as soon as you compile a new sprite.  Occasionally you'll use it on yourself too.

   Puppeteer – Your go to for getting rid of most Spiders and non-IC persona's.  Once you line up a couple Sprites to assist your threading roll you'll frequently be able to re-boot most Spider's decks.  Full turn plus change to finish up whatever you were doing.  Combined with Suppression from a Crack Sprite any you could set off an alarm and still have a turn or two with no interference to finish, run, or preferably, both. 

   Other Forums, I like Resonance Veil personally.  Stitches, Transcendent Grid are both personal favorites.  Really after the first two, its to personal taste. 

Sprites:


   Sorry it took so long to get here.  You're going to want to register these ASAP.  Duh.  Assuming 5 Logic my suggestions are:

   #1 and #2 slots are Level 4 Crack Sprites. 
   #3 and #4 slots are level 4 Machine Sprites.  Level 4 because you'll want to run up lots of services on these guys.  Double digits if your GM doesn't mind.  Think of these four guys like a Street Samurai's guns, a Rigger's drones, or a Decker's deck.  You'll wake up in the morning and strap a couple of these guys on like a favorite pair of shoes.  Level 4 or 5 is recommended.  Level 6 you've basically got a 50/50 chance of losing a service when you attempt to re-register.  Once you're a few hundred Karma into the game and you've leveled up Resonance and the assorted skills you can start bumping up the levels on these guys. 
   #5 Big ass Fault Sprite.  Level 6 at a minimum, higher if you think you can.  Compile that bad boy, take a box or two of physical damage (abort if you take three), then Register it.  You'll likely wind up spending edge to get a net hit.  12 of your dice vs 14 or 16 of its.  You really only need one or two services on this guy because this is your final “Oh shit!” button.  Think Panther Assault Cannon.  You shouldn't be bringing this guy out on every run.

Care and Feeding of Sprites:

   Every day you're going to get up and brush you teeth, shower, get dressed, compile a level 4 Machine Sprite, Thread Static Veil at Level 1 on the little critter and head out the door.  You're going to give the little guy the following command “Use Diagnostics to assist me whenever I shoot my gun.” and scratch off one service. 

   If you're expecting trouble you're going to whistle up a compiled Machine sprite and do basically the same thing.  If you're on a run you're going to have a compiled Crack sprite handy with the command “Assist me whenever you can.”  So any Computer, Hack, or Electronic Warfare check you've got a helper.  Any time you've got to shoot a gun, you've got two.  This is your standard walking around on a run set up.  I wouldn't bust out three sprites unless you're on the clock.

   With just the single Machine sprite ready to go you've got 7 dice to assist you on any shooting you may have to do.  That's an average of +1 limit and +2 Dice pool.  If you're on the clock you'll have two of them going.  +2 Limit, +4 Dice pool, often +5.  Personally I'd have the Machine Sprites helping out the Gun Bunny, and focus on hacking stuff in a fight, but YMMV.  Sometimes its nice to let the team know you can handle yourself. 

   Remember, you're only using two registered sprites and one compiled and veiled sprite.  And Static Veil is at level one.  Its an easy, unresisted test and with Focus Concentration level 1, no penalty to maintain.  You've still got two registered sprites in reserve. 

   Now, once you get to the Matrix part of the run you'll send your un-registered Machine sprite off and call up a Level 4 or 5 Crack Sprite and Static Veil it.  You've probably got some “easy” tests to make, jumping from Grid to Grid, perception checks, and the like.  So don't give it the go command yet.  You may even want to burn a service to end the Assist command from your registered sprite if you know your GM likes a lot of foreplay.  As long as you're not doing anything to set off an alarm you won't need them.  You may even consider not compiling the new Sprite until you need it, and use Static Veil on yourself. 

   So, its time to start hacking.  Yay!  Once the scouting around is done you're going to have a registered Machine Sprite, one registered Crack Sprite and one unregistered Crack Sprite assisting you on every check you make.  You're going to have your second registered Crack Sprite using Suppression anytime you're doing something that may cause IC to spawn. 

   Any Computer or Electronic Warfare check you'll have three assistants.  Any Hacking check you'll have two.  At level 4 its eight dice each time.  On Computer and Electronic Warefare checks typically you're going to be adding +8 Dice, and +3 Limit to your skill checks.  Hacking checks are only slightly less silly with +5 Dice, +2 Limits.  Even with your skills pools around 10, you'll be out hacking the Decker when you're set up correctly. 

   And if you do blow it (happens) any IC should be slowed by Suppression.  Spiders you're going to line up with a couple Crack sprites and re-boot their deck with Puppeteer.  And if none of that works, and you absolutely need to stick it out, call in the big guy and let him rip the place up. 

   After each encounter, likely your Sprites did something Illegal.  No respect for the law those Sprites.  They'll be accumulating OS, so will you probably.  You'll have to use a service to send your registered sprites to Stand-by mode.  You'll also want to dismiss and compile a new Sprite, probably re-boot yourself too.     

   During your downtime you're going to be re-registering these little guys.  If your GM is nice he'll let you use and recover a point of edge per day.  If he's really nice you'll know how many days of downtime you'll have so you can plan it out and start the run with full Edge.     

   Re-registering a Level 4 is your 12 dice vs 8.  And it costs a service to re-register.  Without edge you're likely breaking even.  Specialize early if you can so either Machine or Crack Sprites are 14 vs 8 and you can steadily churn out a service per day on one kind of sprite.  You can use your one Edge per day to build up a service on whatever you're not specialized in.  Your down time will be basically a eight hour work day.  Re-register a level 4 Sprite, 4 hours, take a nap and grab lunch, Re-register another level 4 Sprite.  Head to the pub for a pint and dinner.  Lather, rinse, repeat the next day.   

   One short run will wipe out a weeks worth of downtime activities.  If you're doing a lot of hacking, you'll burn through your entire stable of Sprites.  Lucky, they're free.  Still, if your GM likes to throw a lot of little tests you'll have to micro-manage your Sprites closely.  It'll shoot your action efficiency all to hell to give three command actions every time you really want to roll the dice, but its better than burning up a Sprite before you need too.  Your un-registered sprite you should use on every check and just compile a new one when it expires.  Level 4 shouldn't be causing you Fade very often.
   
   Other fun Tricks to keep in mind.  Sensors let you use Electronic Warfare instead of Perception.  Do you know who had Electronic Warfare?  Sprites.  Buy yourself a handheld sensor suite and keep it in your pocket.  Need someone to watch your back while your in VR mode?  Sprites in a sensor can.  Bedtime in a shady hotel?  Sprite in sensor.

First Run Blues:


   Okay, you've gotten through chargen and got 0 Registered Sprites.  How do you get through the first run?  Typically you get a call from a Fixer about a meet with a Johnson and the game starts.  Ask the GM when did the Fixer call, and what time is the meet?  X hours?  Register an X -1 Level Sprite.  After the meet there is typically legwork.  Use that time to Register a level 4 Sprite.  You get a call during that time from the team that says its go time?  Its go time, no Sprite for you.

   Get a day or so before its go time?  One does of Longhaul is 50 Nuyen and one dose isn't going to cause addiction.  Probably.  Depending on the specifics, its certainly an option to pull a couple all nighters. 

   You won't have Bruiser the Fault Sprite to back you up, so be careful.  And use your un-registered Sprite for everything.  If you manage to get a registered sprite, think carefully about when you call it up. 

Pet Class Etiquette:

   You're playing a pet class.  Make sure your GM is okay with the above playstyle.  A heads up during chargen of “Hey, is it okay if I tell my Sprite to assist me whenever it can and leave it on autopilot?”  If its not, consider making a Decker.  Seriously.  If in order to approach equality of dice pools you need to use an additional simple action for every Matrix action the Technomancer just isn't worth the effort.  You're going to simply take too long to get anything done.  Either you or your Sprites will max out on OS and you're done.  Technomancers are already stopping to compile a new Sprite every few actions anyway, adding an action efficiency penalty on top of that is too much to consider.

   “Constantly re-registering is cheezy!”  Ugh.  Really?  You're going to be carefully managing your downtime to include re-registering in addition to the other things you're spending Karma on.  And you're picking up two net services per day of downtime.  You use two services just to call up two Sprites and have them wait to do something and another two services to put them back on stand-by.  Two days worth of work to do nothing.  You've got to think of registered Sprites as Reagents.  Short little boosts that you can gather for free. 

   Also, as a pet class, its your responsibility to make it run smooth.  Know how many dice, have the Sprites stats right there with your character sheet.  Know the teaming and assisting rules backward and forward.  If you need to double check each rule and check twice to calculate a dice pool someone at the table will eventually punch you in the throat.  Your actions are going to take longer anyway even if you're well prepared. 

Thanks for sticking with it till the end!  Comments and suggestions always welcome.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Darzil on (05:38:07/03-08-15)

Interesting.

You've overdone the limit increases on teamwork tests, they only increase by one per assistant that rolls a hit, not one per hit. Doesn't invalidate anything though.

Core rulebook pg 49:
"For each assistant that scores at least one hit, the
relevant limit for the leader’s test increases by one"
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Ech0 on (06:33:30/03-08-15)
Thanks for putting this together, Hobbes!

We'll run a test with our Technomancer, who will soon have to face a Renraku Host. He'll need all those dice.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (10:19:43/03-08-15)

Interesting.

You've overdone the limit increases on teamwork tests, they only increase by one per assistant that rolls a hit, not one per hit. Doesn't invalidate anything though.

Core rulebook pg 49:
"For each assistant that scores at least one hit, the
relevant limit for the leader’s test increases by one"

Thanks!  Updated!
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Danny Montanny on (12:52:17/03-08-15)
Great read. I have decking down pretty solid, and was looking into the techno stuff and this helps. With that being said, couldn't I just have an army of Machine Sprites run Diagnostics on my deck, log off, then log in with my deck with crazy dice pool and limit bonuses? The sprites continue to do the task even if my living persona isn't in the Matrix anymore, so it should work. Or am I just way off base?
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Whiskeyjack on (15:05:41/03-08-15)
Great read! Would you suggest any Priority changes in Sum-to-10? Or is it not worth it to do Sum-to-10 with a TM?
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Triskavanski on (15:44:24/03-08-15)
I of course, totally agree with maxing out will. This is kinda totally the single most important stat for a technomancer to me, as its the basis of not becoming dead on the matrix.

I didn't see why Hide was funny though, it seemed to be missing.


And yes, I cannot stress enough, Talk to your GM before you play a technomancer. For some reason, people are perfectly cool with a mage being able to lift cars with their minds, and turn people into goop, but like for some reason demand that technomancers play to the "physics" of the matrix to the point that you really can't do much of anything other than act like a really crappy decker.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Danny Montanny on (15:53:55/03-08-15)
Great read! Would you suggest any Priority changes in Sum-to-10? Or is it not worth it to do Sum-to-10 with a TM?
Sum to 10 Human with A in Attributes and Resonance, with C skills should be pretty bad ass. Only 8 points to get your top 3 skills maxed, then you should have enough to spread around to the others.

A Resonance with B Attributes and Skills Human will have a huge amount of points to allocate and more meatspace options.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (16:08:59/03-08-15)

I didn't see why Hide was funny though, it seemed to be missing.


Because you're (almost) always dragging along a small army of Sprites.  It's like using a couple trolls to carry a bush for you to hide in.  Ultimately its a futile exercise.   
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (16:19:16/03-08-15)
Great read. I have decking down pretty solid, and was looking into the techno stuff and this helps. With that being said, couldn't I just have an army of Machine Sprites run Diagnostics on my deck, log off, then log in with my deck with crazy dice pool and limit bonuses? The sprites continue to do the task even if my living persona isn't in the Matrix anymore, so it should work. Or am I just way off base?

*shrug*  Should.  But your deck doesn't inherently have "more" dice.  It's still (essentially) Stat+Skill.  Plus building a Technomancer with a couple hundred thousand Nuyen to spend on a deck is a challenge.  You'll be very compromised on stats and skills.  Certainly possible though. 

Now a Technomancer using Sprites to support a Decker would certainly have silly amounts of dice to throw around.  But you can say that about any two Shadowrunners. 
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Triskavanski on (18:01:53/03-08-15)

I didn't see why Hide was funny though, it seemed to be missing.


Because you're (almost) always dragging along a small army of Sprites.  It's like using a couple trolls to carry a bush for you to hide in.  Ultimately its a futile exercise.


Yes, you've got a lot of sprites, but in the matrix stealth isn't just "I'm not here."  It is also "You can't target me." thats why its something to use after you've been spotted.

With a Static Bomb, you can ninja poof your way out of site of everyone who's spotted you. Still gotta deal with those who have marks on you though, but now they can't see you.

Its part of the dealio for my matrix ninja character
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Danny Montanny on (18:19:37/03-08-15)
*shrug*  Should.  But your deck doesn't inherently have "more" dice.  It's still (essentially) Stat+Skill.  Plus building a Technomancer with a couple hundred thousand Nuyen to spend on a deck is a challenge.  You'll be very compromised on stats and skills.  Certainly possible though. 

Now a Technomancer using Sprites to support a Decker would certainly have silly amounts of dice to throw around.  But you can say that about any two Shadowrunners. 
Nor does your Smartlinked gun have "more" dice but when you use it (Stat + Skill) the Diagnostics will make the device perform better. So if it works for a gun, it makes just as much sense (if not more) that it'll work for a deck.

Points Buy or Life Module might be the way to do it. You wouldn't need the greatest deck since the limits of your actions will be increased by however many sprites are running Diagnostics. An Overclocked Microdeck Summit can have 7 Firewall (Encryption) at all times with 4/6/6 limits (basically a Renraku Tsurugi) for your actions with 3 sprites. 2-3 dice per sprite should put your pools at 20+. I suppose having some Crack sprites assist you in your tests will get you there too, but they're limited in actions. This way you won't be limited and have big pools for every Matrix action with only a 60k investment. Not to mention not taking damage if you happened to get whacked while you're hacking. You could even have all of your registered sprites come along and command them, as you'd just transfer them over to your deck persona. So a Crack Sprite running Suppression and a big bad Fault Sprite mopping up the IC.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (23:42:54/03-08-15)

Nor does your Smartlinked gun have "more" dice but when you use it (Stat + Skill) the Diagnostics will make the device perform better. So if it works for a gun, it makes just as much sense (if not more) that it'll work for a deck.


You're aiming to save on services.  Sure.  But for 60k you're in the ballpark of getting a couple levels of Cerebral boosters aren't you?  And a Micro-deck is 4 3 3 1.  Overclocking is +1, Encryption is +1, each sprite is a +1.  Not sure where you're getting the rest of the buffs from.   *shrug*  anyway.  Cyberdeck implies Data Jack so you're losing a point of Resonance, so why not grab the Cerebral boosters?  Flat +2 to most Matrix Actions.  But your way certainly works too.  Its a personal preference of mine that Technomancers don't use decks, Deckers do.  But Diagnostics on a Technmancer using a Deck would certainly reduce the micromanaging of the Sprite Services. 

Unless you're decking with 'trodes or some such.  Then you're at -10 to cool.  : ) 
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Danny Montanny on (00:32:03/03-09-15)
You're aiming to save on services.  Sure.  But for 60k you're in the ballpark of getting a couple levels of Cerebral boosters aren't you?  And a Micro-deck is 4 3 3 1.  Overclocking is +1, Encryption is +1, each sprite is a +1.  Not sure where you're getting the rest of the buffs from.   *shrug*  anyway.  Cyberdeck implies Data Jack so you're losing a point of Resonance, so why not grab the Cerebral boosters?  Flat +2 to most Matrix Actions.  But your way certainly works too.  Its a personal preference of mine that Technomancers don't use decks, Deckers do.  But Diagnostics on a Technmancer using a Deck would certainly reduce the micromanaging of the Sprite Services. 

Unless you're decking with 'trodes or some such.  Then you're at -10 to cool.  : ) 
Would be 6, not 7 on Firewall, then. Must've read the wrong line when I typed it the first time. The +3 is for each sprite adding to the limit of actions. So basically a limit of 6 for anything, or even 9 if you know how to configure well on the fly. It's all just theory crafting anyways. Maybe will do a life module where a corp spider gets the ability so he heads for the shadows to keep from being found out.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: 8-bit on (00:59:26/03-09-15)
The thing about using a deck as a Technomancer is that it means you aren't using your Living Persona. I could pull up the various quotes, but suffice it to say, you can only have one Persona at a time - using a deck creates a mundane Persona. Whether you can access your sprites while not using your Living Persona is dubious; I personally would say no, but some GMs might allow it.

Edit: I might even allow the use of sprites. However, the amount of tasks that you are going to use up is enormous, and I certainly wouldn't allow you to compile more Sprites without using your Living Persona. That definitely requires Resonance abilities, which you wouldn't have access to while using a mundane Persona.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Danny Montanny on (06:58:00/03-09-15)
The thing about using a deck as a Technomancer is that it means you aren't using your Living Persona. I could pull up the various quotes, but suffice it to say, you can only have one Persona at a time - using a deck creates a mundane Persona. Whether you can access your sprites while not using your Living Persona is dubious; I personally would say no, but some GMs might allow it.

Edit: I might even allow the use of sprites. However, the amount of tasks that you are going to use up is enormous, and I certainly wouldn't allow you to compile more Sprites without using your Living Persona. That definitely requires Resonance abilities, which you wouldn't have access to while using a mundane Persona.
You can loan your registered sprites out to any persona.
Now the thing is if you really need to. "Run Diagnostics on this device until I tell you to stop." They'll continue the task even if you're logged off. The real kicker would be if they can continue do so while the persona is in a Host. If yes, then no biggie. If not, getting them marks might be a little tricky, due to them not having Hacking dice. You'll need to loan them out with at least 3 tasks and do a teamwork test to help them get their mark. Then task them to run Diagnostics and in you go. The last task is to put them on Standby after you're done. It'd also work if Diagnostics from outside the Host would just be a Remote Task, you'd still only need 3 tasks for each Machine Sprite. Not all that much in the grand scheme of things.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Triskavanski on (09:48:23/03-09-15)
Thats something I've wondered.


Why can you only have one persona?


Its kinda like saying you can't use your phone at the same time as your computer because you can only have one IP. What thing are you using to make a persona?
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Marcus on (10:15:38/03-09-15)
Thats something I've wondered.


Why can you only have one persona?


Its kinda like saying you can't use your phone at the same time as your computer because you can only have one IP. What thing are you using to make a persona?

Story wise the limit would be Your brain mostly. It's not so much a question of one IP, as only one direct neural link.

System wise it's balance issue, letting a character run two persona breaks the system in a long list of ways.

That said with a build like this you could probably eventually managed to setup something to make it look very much like your running multiple persona's as long as the other side doesn't get to close a look.

A very nice piece of work on this build. I still question the viability of Techo particularly at creation, but this looks workable to me.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Triskavanski on (21:02:44/03-09-15)
I think that assumes though that turning on a comlink uses a DNL.

Its weird that a Decker could constantly use a commlink and deck. Or a rigger could constantly use a commlink and RCC. Or someone who went with both, could use a commlink, deck, and RCC. No one bats an eye.

A technomancer tries to send something from his commlink while using his living persona, and they lose their flipping minds
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Marcus on (21:19:15/03-09-15)
Can you give me a more precise definition of what you mean by use?
If a hacker wants to use their commlink to mess with their pan, I don't think that's a big deal (Techno or decker). If a techno wants to use a deck to avoid running up his bio comps score, I don't really see that as an issue ether.

If a decker tried to DNL on two decks at once I would call foul right away, the same if a techno tried to using the living comp and a deck at the same time.

The question of interaction between sprites and decks is one I can see folks being uncomfortable with. It's certainly an interactions that can be understandable, but the purest will get rubbed the wrong way. Agents and Sprites living together is a clear sign of the digital apocalypse. It messes with views on how these things interact.

Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (23:04:14/03-09-15)
I suppose having some Crack sprites assist you in your tests will get you there too, but they're limited in actions. This way you won't be limited and have big pools for every Matrix action with only a 60k investment. Not to mention not taking damage if you happened to get whacked while you're hacking. You could even have all of your registered sprites come along and command them, as you'd just transfer them over to your deck persona. So a Crack Sprite running Suppression and a big bad Fault Sprite mopping up the IC.

Pretty sure the "right" way to do this is Logic 7, Resonance 6, Will, Int, 3 or 4, physical stats of whatever.  Relevant skills 6.  Charisma as high as you can get.  (5?).   14 karma for Exceptional attribute, 5 Karma to bond 5 force 6 Machine Sprites.  (Max of Cha at char gen?  Seems odd) .  Blow off the meet with the Johnson, spend the first 8 hours of the campaign registering 2 more Level 4 Machine Sprites, total of 7 now.  Take a nap, call up one more and veil it.  So, 5 at level 6, 12 Dice times 5 is 60 dice of Diagnostics, so thats +20 on average from the Level 6s. 3 at 4 so 24 dice of Diagnostics, another +8 Dice.  13 dice naturally on most Matrix tests so you're looking at what a 41ish dice pool for most hacking tests.  Limits of Deck +7 for whatever test you're doing that turn. 

Max rating is what 12?  So around 30 Dice for most resistance tests?  So yeah, a starting out of the box Technomancer can hack Zurich Orbital on the first run.

/em drop mic.

/thread
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Whiskeyjack on (23:30:30/03-09-15)
So yeah, a starting out of the box Technomancer can hack Zurich Orbital on the first run.
Enjoy that Thor Shot.  ;)
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: 8-bit on (23:33:00/03-09-15)
So yeah, a starting out of the box Technomancer can hack Zurich Orbital on the first run.
Enjoy that Thor Shot.  ;)

Theoretically, with a high enough Force spirit, you could outrun the radius of it before it hits. Hmm ... contingency plans, methinks. We'll launch multiple Thor Shots!
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Danny Montanny on (05:18:35/03-10-15)
Quote
5 Karma to bond 5 force 6 Machine Sprites.  (Max of Cha at char gen?  Seems odd) .
Where is this at in the CRB? I looked but couldn't find anything about registering Sprites with Karma.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Novocrane on (08:23:56/03-10-15)
Max rating is what 12?  So around 30 Dice for most resistance tests?  So yeah, a starting out of the box Technomancer can hack Zurich Orbital on the first run.
I think you're underestimating the plethora of decoy stations set up to mimic Z-O, encryption level of "the best hackers to try breaking this have gone insane" .... that's before you can even face the constantly upgraded matrix and physical defences.

 ;D

But you're welcome to try. You might only get the thor shot.

Incidentally;

Quote
The sprite can assist someone using or repairing the device with a Teamwork Test.
Quote
The most dice that can be added to the test is equal to the leader’s rating in the applicable skill, or the highest attribute rating if the test involves two attributes.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Danny Montanny on (09:43:14/03-10-15)
Quote
The most dice that can be added to the test is equal to the leader’s rating in the applicable skill, or the highest attribute rating if the test involves two attributes.
[/quote]
Great find! This is the single most limiting factor. Still +6 dice isn't anything to sneeze about. If I was going to make this, I'd go with what I did or my Mystic Adept Decker and see if I can get the numbers to match up. He'd only have 4 Resonance, but that should be enough to register some level 3-4 Machine Sprites to help with shooting and decking. Also, you just making one check when they activate Diagnostics to determine the boost, that way you don't have to roll a million times for each check, right? Also also, what's the consensus on them being able to run the Diagnostics while your persona is inside of a Host? The device still exists in meatspace, which is what they're effecting, so it should be legit, right? This way you wouldn't even have to loan them out, they just do their thing while your living persona is logged out.

I still am curious where the 5 Karma for 5 registered Sprites at character generation is coming from.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Zweiblumen on (14:13:18/03-10-15)
I still am curious where the 5 Karma for 5 registered Sprites at character generation is coming from.

Quote from: CRB p. 98 Additional Purchases & Restrictions
ItemKarma Cost (At Character Creation)Restriction
[...]
Registering Sprites1 karma per task (Level of sprite equal to Character's Resonance Rating)Can only have a number of Registeredsrites equal to the character's Charisma
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Danny Montanny on (15:54:29/03-10-15)
Quote from: CRB p. 98 Additional Purchases & Restrictions
ItemKarma Cost (At Character Creation)Restriction
[...]
Registering Sprites1 karma per task (Level of sprite equal to Character's Resonance Rating)Can only have a number of Registeredsrites equal to the character's Charisma
Thanks much. The book is so jumbled that sometimes it's hard to find the things that people talk about.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (22:40:41/03-10-15)
The most dice that can be added to the test is equal to the leader’s rating in the applicable skill, or the highest attribute rating if the test involves two attributes.

That's a relief.  I had visions of ever escalating circles of Decker assisted Spiders being countered by Machine spirit boosted Snipers shooting through a building off 14 ricochets with a 200 dice pool while Conjuring circles settled the age old "Who would win Cthulhu or Godzilla?".  While certainly fun, really a very different game.  :) 




Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Marcus on (00:00:17/03-11-15)
Back in 4th when my group did the math on Techno vs Deckers, we had determined that the best thing to do as a Techno right out of the box was to sprite up and let them do the work (though not in the same way this build does it), but back then we had some options that helped techno considerably more, see the smartlink form etc. But in the current state of hacking those options don't exist outside house rules. I'm hoping this will be fixed with the release of the 5th Hacking book but I have no idea when that will happen, and if its anything like SG it ma

So the question for me remains is this truly viable?
The aid action stuff is cute, and it does give a decent die and even non-standard limit bonus, but honestly the limit bonus is fairly meaningless, as technos are super Multi-Attribute Dependent, and can't really afford to take cyberware. Threading + super skill wires was the broken answer back in 4th. But the power that made that work in the meat world doesn't exist in 5th.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Triskavanski on (07:59:58/03-11-15)
Lately I've been thinking that possibly, Res A is a trap for technomancers. I mean, it sounds like what you should totally do right?

But lets say you went Skills A, Attributes B, Resonance C, human D, Resourece E

Res A Karma worth is: Special Attribute (from 3 to 6) 75 Karma, Skills 60 Karma, and 16 karma for complex forms, Giving you 155 karma over Res C. Sounds impressive, until you factor in that the human D could knock out the 75 karma cost, And your skills could easily cover the skill point loss (And add specilizations) leaving you with 16 karma for complex forms. But honestly, those kinda don't do a whole lot, are rather hard to use, or have high fade attributes.

Now learning a new complex form only costs 4 karma, and takes 12 days to learn. Those 12 days however can be rather quickly reduced by getting a rather large number of hits on a software + Intuition test. With 2 hits, you learn learn it in six days, four days for three, three days for 4. So yeah, its easier to learn the CFs while in play than it is to spend 4-5 weeks to increase an attribute.


Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (09:00:36/03-11-15)
For anyone that can get to Resonance 6 and doesn't care about Edge, yes, Resonance A isn't worth it.  For Metatypes that can't raise Resonance to 6 any other way, you're kinda stuck with Resonance A.  You need the dice for compiling and registering Sprites, you've gotta get to around 14 dice for re-registering a Level 4 Sprite to start coming out ahead.

With less dice on Re-registering you can compensate with lower level sprites until you get your dice pool up, but that's impacting every Matrix test and anything your Machine sprites would be assisting you with.  May or may not be worth the trade off, would depend on the build specifics. 

But yes, generally if you can get Resonance to 6 without an A, you're better off because Complex Forums are cheap and a higher skill priority gets you far more skill points.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Triskavanski on (12:42:19/03-11-15)
Even then, its pretty much trappy. You can boost your edge up faster than any other stat.(takes no time to train)

Id go with b or c, then build up edge after that. If you pick up nothing else beyond the 25 quality points, you can start with 3 edge easily.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (20:51:02/03-11-15)
If you're willing to settle for Resonance 5 Elf builds can go
E Resources; D Resonance, C Elf, B Skills, A Attributes.   5 res; 1 Edge and fix special stats with Karma?  Maybe.  Losing that Resonance dice hurts though I don't feel that its strictly "better", but I'll list it as an option. 

I think a Dwarf build comes out better,
E Resources; D Resonance, C Skills, B Dwarf, A Attributes.  6 Res; 1 Edge is easier to correct with Karma and potentially a starting willpower of 8?  I'll update the OP for Dwarf Meta, that looks better.



Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: 8-bit on (20:52:45/03-11-15)
You realize that Resonance is only available in Priority C or higher, right?
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (21:31:07/03-11-15)
Back in 4th when my group did the math on Techno vs Deckers, we had determined that the best thing to do as a Techno right out of the box was to sprite up and let them do the work (though not in the same way this build does it), but back then we had some options that helped techno considerably more, see the smartlink form etc. But in the current state of hacking those options don't exist outside house rules. I'm hoping this will be fixed with the release of the 5th Hacking book but I have no idea when that will happen, and if its anything like SG it ma

So the question for me remains is this truly viable?
The aid action stuff is cute, and it does give a decent die and even non-standard limit bonus, but honestly the limit bonus is fairly meaningless, as technos are super Multi-Attribute Dependent, and can't really afford to take cyberware. Threading + super skill wires was the broken answer back in 4th. But the power that made that work in the meat world doesn't exist in 5th.

Its viable if the GM is willing to let you use Sprites in this way, and will tolerate your constant need to register and re-register during your down time.  A lot of this build is dependent on how your table works.  Not so much if your GM requires a lot of virtual foreplay for Matrix actions, like multiple Matrix perception checks, lots of dead ends and things like that.  You'll lose a ton of action efficiency because you'll want to limit your Sprite use to important rolls only.  If your GM is more of the "Here is the thing"  "okay I hack the thing"  then you'll be fine.  First run will likely be tight no matter what you do.

As far as meat space goes you're not a primary combatant, but you're not a liability.  You should be able to match up with what a Decker or Face can do in meat space.  Should have two actions, you'll be a touch later in the pass usually.  I think you wind up slightly squishier, but with more firepower (typically).  Figure a Decker or Face would have a Smartlink and Wired 1 and around 11 Dice with a Gun.  Maybe 18 Soak, 10ish dice for Defense?  Technomancer likely has less Soak, but more dice with the gun.  You should be able to hit a 10+1d6 for initiative with a technomancer.  Good 'nuff for two actions, but later in the pass.

And seriously, Machine Sprites running Diagnostics on other character's equipment is a huge boost to the team.  Nobody at the table is going to think giving more shooting dice to the guy with 3 actions and a big ass gun is a bad idea.  And if your GM is a tolerant sort he'll let you park the Machine Sprite in a gun indefinitely since RAW the Diagnostics action doesn't end until you say so.  So with some GMs you'll be able to focus entirely on re-registering Crack Sprites.

*shrug* or your GM will gimp you for no reason.  In that case, either deal with it, or play something else. 
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (21:33:21/03-11-15)
You realize that Resonance is only available in Priority C or higher, right?

What the ef?  Seriously?  Seriously.  *sigh*  Every other magic option is Magic 2 for Priority D  *sigh*

'kay, thanks!

OP Updated for the second time tonight.  I'm going to stop checking this thread for things I got wrong.  ;D

Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Triskavanski on (21:49:19/03-11-15)
Aye, I'd rate Humans and dwarfs as the top two core book races.

Most of the Run faster races come up short With possible exception of Gnome.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: 8-bit on (00:33:59/03-12-15)
What the ef?  Seriously?  Seriously.  *sigh*  Every other magic option is Magic 2 for Priority D  *sigh*

Well, kind of. Only Adept and Aspected Magician at D. Magician and Mystic Adept, as well as Technomancer, require C or above.

It is annoying though, I agree. I've always setup houserules to allow purchase (albeit at much lower values) at D.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Danny Montanny on (08:13:39/03-12-15)
The new Dwarf build on the OP won't work, I don't think. For starters, you have both REA and WIL hard capped. You could always just move the point over to CHA and be in line, but it's the skills that are killing me. You could sort of get away with 22 when you had the extra 10 from Resonance A, but now... No way you're making a competent runner even using up your remaining 36 Karma on top of your 22 skill points.


I did the crunch and Dwarf seems that it'd alway be better to go with a Karma point buy. 540 will get you B3/A4/R4/S3/W7/L5/I5/C2/E2/R6. A good skill spread for your main skills is 231. That's Compiling, Registering, and Sofware at 6, Computer, Cybercombat, Electronic Warfare and Hacking at 5. That leaves 29 to toy around with, and you can still get 25 more with negative qualities. You could drop secondaries to 4 and that'll give you another 35, if you wanted.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Nartaki Post on (11:40:48/03-18-15)
A nice idea, and I do like the static veil thing, but I have a problem with the team work sprites.  If I were the GM, I flat out would not allow it.  I have looked over the team work rules, and it is missing a simple catchall phase, "If it makes sense".  You should not be able to use team work for all actions.  If you want Fred and Charlie to help you shift the so and so, that is fine, but if a jeweler wants to cut the perfect diamond for an engagement ring, she can't get bonus dice from the four assistants helping to hold her hands steady.  I view matrix actions as running algorithms on your deck, or techno brain, and then applying code or resonance to the task.  If two different hackers were both running algorithms to crack the protection on a file, you don't have team work, you have a race.  One hacker may hit the code key before the other, but they can't combine algorithms to run better.

If you are wanting to use sprites to stack up unlimited bonuses on a roll, then compiled sprites can add their ratting to a threading test, and this isn't team work.  You could have five sprites assisting the one threading attempt.  You would still be limited to the ratting effect of course, and they can't help with the exceeding high drain you would suffer (edge at rating one), but it is legal.  Nothing in the rules prevents using more then one sprite in this fashion, but it probably should, and I want TM's to be more powerful.

As a side note, even if the team working would work, a decker could do the same thing with 4 agents, which have all the skills you could want, and don't use up services.


Nartaki posting on the forums
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Triskavanski on (19:37:21/03-18-15)
The Jeweler getting the perfect cut diamond wouldn't have the four assistants holding their hand. The four assistants would be doing other things the jeweler would need. Like http://laacs.org/laacswpste1/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/surgery2.jpg with surgery. You don't have the surgeon sitting there with six other people holding his arms to help him cut and sew someone up. One person is handing him tools. It might not seem important, but its additional work the surgeon doesn't have to do. The tools can also be maintained by the rest of the crew. They could be watching various signals and the like of the various machines that go bing, Wiping the sweat off the brow. Keeping the work station cleaned.

I doubt every single matrix action is a game of Mastermind, Even if they were, then just having a high expensive deck would allow you to crack everything and no one would ever need to actually invest in the skill. Because you're just running scripts on your deck and then sending the code it spits out. But even as a "race" many hands make light work. In the movie Hackers you've got a scene like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wXBe2jTdx4  while the effects and stuff are a little off on computers, They hack the Gibson by wearing it down, creating camouflaged actions, while one person is going after the data they needed. I don't think that software companies only need one man to program huge databases of stuff because having to would only be a race of who wins first. Looking for things online, some people check areas that others don't.

Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (19:53:00/03-18-15)
Yep up to the GM.  RAW neither Sprites nor Agents can use team work, because RAW there is no command for Sprites to do that.  Perfectly legitimate interpretation of the rules.

RAI, lots of evidence Sprites are intended to be able to use team work.  and RAW 

"A task is basically one job you ask/tell your sprite to
do. It has to be a simple task without conditions or
heavy decision-making requirements. A single task
can be one of the following things: A single use of a
sprite power; one Combat Turn worth of Matrix actions
that apply to the same job; (snip combat stuff).  "

Essentially "Assist me on any Matrix action you can" is asking for one combat turn of Matrix actions.  Just, not right now, maybe later.  Its not a particularly broad interpretation to let Sprites work in this way.  However anyone who says RAW Sprites can't do this is correct if you take the narrowest interpretation of the rules possible.

Agents flat can't assist.  They have no capability similar to Sprites.  Agents either do a thing, or don't.  They aren't able to take  commands like Sprites and RAW unable to deal with situations outside a narrow range of pre-programed situations.  "You can have your agent perform Matrix actions for you."  Much more a stretch to let an Agent use team work.  "...one combat turn worth of matrix actions that apply to the same job.." vs. "... perform Matrix actions for you."  IMO significant difference. 

Metagame, game balance crap.  IMO deckers are cake to build, and are mechanically superior to a significant degree if you don't let Sprites use the team work rules.  Deckers can walk out of chargen with 8 Logic and 6 skills, 14 dice for each Matrix action.  Technomancers not so much.  Not only do burnt out Technomancers have similar priority needs as a Decker, they also need to pick up some Resonance along the way.  They need either more chargen resources to get to the same place Deckers are, or they need some way Resonance can boost Matrix actions.  Hey, Sprites!  I'm fairly confident if you wanted to make a Technomancer, without Sprites, that could throw as many dice at Matrix tests as a Decker you wind up with a low Resonance burn out.  Essentially a Decker with a slightly lower resource priority, but can thread a couple Complex forums at the cost meat skills and attributes.  Deckers have lower Attribute requirements and need less skills to do a better job at Matrixy stuff.  All Sprites using team work are doing is letting a Technomancer catch up to where Deckers are at for a cost of all the down time and lots of prep work and careful micro management of a herd of cats.  My inner GM figures it to be a fair trade, your and other inner GMs may not.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Darzil on (05:45:08/03-19-15)
Deckers can walk out of chargen with 8 Logic and 6 skills, 14 dice for each Matrix action.
Whilst I agree with your general thrust, and I would allow Sprite teamwork tests, this actually doesn't give a Decker 14 dice on Control Device (sleaze method), Disarm Data Bomb, Hide, Jack Out, Matrix Perception, Matrix Search, Snoop, Spoof Command or Trace Icon, as these don't use Logic. If also doesn't give them 14 dice on most of their defence tests.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (10:21:36/03-19-15)
Good point, I should have said 14 dice for Logic based Matrix actions.  Only 11 dice for Int based Matrix actions, here Deckers and Technomancers are closer to even.  Deckers have more options for raising Firewall than Technomancers though and I'd argue that in general Deckers have more discretionary character resources to boost Int based tests than Technomancers.  A specialization or two goes a long way, or picking up the +2 to a Matrix test quality (I forget the name).
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Triskavanski on (02:07:28/03-20-15)
Also, Technomancers do have "Programs" they can use. Only we call the Drugs.

Nitro +2 Will/Fire wall, High Pain Tolerance 6
Novacoke +1 Cha/Attack HPT 1
Psyche +1 Intution/Sleeze +1logic/data process +1 Mental Limit
Zen +1 Will/Fire wall

If more drugs come that will help, you can "repogram" your brain deck with drugs :3
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Danny Montanny on (07:22:28/03-20-15)
Nitro is a Technomancer's best friend on a hard hack. 2 more dice to resist Fade, as well as no negatives until you take 9 boxes on your monitor?  Yes please!
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Zweiblumen on (14:55:00/03-20-15)
Nitro is a Technomancer's best friend on a hard hack. 2 more dice to resist Fade, as well as no negatives until you take 9 boxes on your monitor?  Yes please!

Um... after 10x1d6 minutes you take 9 boxes of stun damage and you are at -2 to all limits for the same 10x1d6 minutes.  Taking 9 unresisted points of damage is *rough*  hope you've got a medkit handy for that, and someone else doing it as you'll have a -2 limit (and the -3 to your die roll from the damage).
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Nartaki Post on (21:08:46/03-22-15)
Triskavanski brings up an interesting point on teamwork with the surgery example.  While the main surgeon is working, assistants are passing tool, clamping veins and arteries, and providing suction so the surgeon can see what they are doing.  In fact, many surgeons would say their work is impossible with out the assistants of good nurses.  However, instead of claiming team work, another way to look at this is it's the minimum requirement to avoiding penalties.  The surgeon isn't getting a team work bonus from assistants, they are avoiding poor condition penalties because a properly staffed surgery theatre is part of what the rules consider adequate tools for the job.  A street doc may have all the best equipment, but still suffer a penalty because they don't have trained staff to help them out.

Another example of people doing different tasks to achieve the same goal, would be a group of mechanics working together to restore a car.  One person could be working the engine block, a second working on the suspension and breaks, while a third works on the chassis.  If just one person is working alone, they don't have a penalty, they just take more time (more hits needed for the extended test).  Even then I don't like the idea of this being team work, three people should get the job done three times faster, not a bit faster.  In this scenario, I would probably just let all the mechanics roll, and total all the hits towards the extended action.

As for giving TM's a sly boost so they compare to deckers, I disagree, TM's need a rules rewrite so they don't need sly boost to be even.

Nartaki posting on the forums
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Triskavanski on (23:15:34/03-22-15)
Perhaps the same could be said of All teamwork checks then?

If doing a masterful surgery with the lead surgeon requires people just to avoid penalties rather than being a teamwork test to put the patient together, Or a bunch of people working on a car is just separate work tests, Perhaps then there isn't ever anything that is truely a teamwork test, but rather everything is just a race to the finish or avoiding penalties?

Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Medicineman on (09:02:06/03-23-15)
interesting Thread .
If I'm ever gonna play a TM I'll use some Ideas from here :)

HokaHey
Medicineman
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (14:30:10/03-23-15)

As for giving TM's a sly boost so they compare to deckers, I disagree, TM's need a rules rewrite so they don't need sly boost to be even.


Not likely going to see a complete re-write.  And I don't know about "sly boost".  This is simply maximizing and managing a common RAI interpretation.  Nothing sneaking going on, its going to be real obvious what a TM is doing here.

I suspect most GMs wouldn't bat an eye at Sprites using the teamwork rules.  Some GMs will react to a Technomancer taking half an hour every play session to micro manage down time, and suddenly rolling several times to resolve each test, ect, ect.  It's why I recommended talking it over with the GM first.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: szvitch on (13:05:15/03-25-15)

Qualities: 

   
   Focused Concentration of level 1.  Just take it, you'll need it later.  Consider it required.
Trust Fund.  You've got E Resources, but still want to live indoors?  Trust Fund if it fits your concept. 

   Lots of other positive qualities are tempting but likely your Karma is better spent elsewhere, especially if you're a Metahuman. 

   Negative qualities:  In Debt of 2 to 4 levels is fine.  Gets you that Runner Starting kit, and you're not doing much with your cash after.  Its better than burning starting Karma on cash.  Codeblock Set Databomb is an easy one.  Hide is funny (you'll see why later).  Its pretty easy points if you're struggling to come up with something. 


Is Trust Fund, In Dept, and Hide only in 4th edition?

I can't seem to find them in the 5th edition rulebook.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Kincaid on (13:42:34/03-25-15)
Hide is a Matrix action from the core book (p. 240).  The other two are qualities from Run Faster.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: PauloAM on (16:52:19/07-07-15)
Excuse me,

Is there evidence on the book that supports the fact I can put a Sprite on "autopilot" to "Use Diagnostics on me whenever this or that happens" ? I understood that it would be a pain in the ass to spend a Simple Action to make it use the power. As I see it, it would be like the Sprite "delays" an Action with that specific trigger. The Sprite would use up a Task whenever the triggger occurred. I'm a newb GM and want to know if most GMs accept that.
Also, the text on Diagnostics states that "the bonus lasts until the sprite drops it or does something else" so...what is the maximum amount of time that this "buff" can be maintained?

Sorry if this was already answered  :P
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (21:05:20/07-07-15)
Depends on the GM.  There isn't a specific ruling that says you can order a Sprite to delay.  Sprites are intelligent critters so they'd understand the command.

Machine Sprites use Diagnostics until you give them another order.  RAW, forever, so up to the GM.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Sterling on (13:35:40/07-08-15)
Depends on the GM.  There isn't a specific ruling that says you can order a Sprite to delay.  Sprites are intelligent critters so they'd understand the command.

Machine Sprites use Diagnostics until you give them another order.  RAW, forever, so up to the GM.

This is contradicted by Core Rulebook (Second Printing) p. 254:

Quote
Sprites are a lot like agents, obedient and semi-autonomous but not very bright.
.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Whiskeyjack on (19:40:26/07-08-15)
Sprites are most compatible to Spirits. You certainly can issue a general or conditional order to a spirit.

All your quote means is that the Sprite is not super imaginative.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (21:14:30/07-08-15)
Depends on the GM.  There isn't a specific ruling that says you can order a Sprite to delay.  Sprites are intelligent critters so they'd understand the command.

Machine Sprites use Diagnostics until you give them another order.  RAW, forever, so up to the GM.

This is contradicted by Core Rulebook (Second Printing) p. 254:

Quote
Sprites are a lot like agents, obedient and semi-autonomous but not very bright.
.

This is mostly to minimize some of the micromanaging of the Sprites.  If the GM wants to hear the magic words each and every time, you say the magic words each and every time.  If time is tight then you're going to have some action economy issues if the GM wants you to burn an action for every Sprite assistance check.  Check with your GM how they want to handle it so you're not surprised. 
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Marcus on (01:13:57/07-09-15)
Given that it would be laughably simple to write a script to do this I can't imagine sprites would have any issue doing it.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (10:54:17/07-09-15)
Given that it would be laughably simple to write a script to do this I can't imagine sprites would have any issue doing it.

Some GMs like to hear the magic words.  I was like that with "Strike Mighty Blow" from the Warhammer RPG.  Always made the players say it to get the +1 damage.  Shouting was encouraged. 

But "When condition X is met, do Y" is a simple thing, yes, obviously I agree. 
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: adzling on (10:11:56/11-06-15)
Read through this topic again and realized that the petnomancer is severely limited by the teamwork rules.
The maximum dice that sprites can contribute equals the skill rating of the leader.
So if you software skill is 5 and your logic is 5 your hacking pool is 10 but the most amount of dice sprites can add to your hack on the fly test is only 5.

Or am I doing it wrong?

Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Halinn on (13:53:13/11-06-15)
I think it should be added that when your registered sprites are low on tasks after a run, it's better to let them go, compile up a new one and register that, as registering adds tasks. Roll your 12/14 dice with edge when compiling for more tasks, then you'll have a good amount ready when it's registered.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Hobbes on (14:30:31/11-06-15)
Read through this topic again and realized that the petnomancer is severely limited by the teamwork rules.
The maximum dice that sprites can contribute equals the skill rating of the leader.
So if you software skill is 5 and your logic is 5 your hacking pool is 10 but the most amount of dice sprites can add to your hack on the fly test is only 5.

Or am I doing it wrong?

Correct.
Title: Re: Petnomancers – A guide for 5th Edition Technomancers as a pet class
Post by: Danny Montanny on (17:14:10/11-06-15)
Read through this topic again and realized that the petnomancer is severely limited by the teamwork rules.
The maximum dice that sprites can contribute equals the skill rating of the leader.
So if you software skill is 5 and your logic is 5 your hacking pool is 10 but the most amount of dice sprites can add to your hack on the fly test is only 5.

Or am I doing it wrong?

Assuming you mean the Hacking skill and not Software for a Hack on the Fly action. Either way, for an average of 5 hits on their test, you're looking at a Level 7 or 8 Sprite. Not only that that, your Intuition is probably what, 5? So your limit is now 6 with the help. 15 dice to throw at that limit is pretty reasonable.