Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: fexes on <02-27-15/1258:43>
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:o Are you serious (http://catalystgamelabs.tumblr.com/post/112232579966/shadowrun-hostile-takeover-gameboard-progress)? Really? You didn't know where to place the two pyramids in Downtown Seattle? You didn't know the exactly position the last 25 years? What the f*** - just take a look into the Seattle Sourcebook (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/109295/Shadowrun-Seattle-Sourcebook) or the first Shadowrun Rulebook (1989)! Or try these maps which based on the original plans. Crystal! Clear!
Seattle Downtown 2050: http://www.fexes.de/downloads/SR2050_Seattle_Downtown_(lowres).pdf (PDF, 1,2 MB)
Seattle Districts 2050: http://www.fexes.de/downloads/SR2050_Seattle_Districts_(lowres).pdf (PDF, 19,5 MB)
Pacific Northwest: http://www.fexes.de/downloads/SR2050_Pacific_Northwest_(lowres).pdf (PDF, 6,3 MB)
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Random. Out of curiosity, why bring this up here instead of responding to the post?
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Pretty sure he did post this response on FB.
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So what's the point of posting them here? To try to dredge up some sort of ... anger? This isn't even a forum for that game.
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So what's the point of posting them here? To try to dredge up some sort of ... anger? This isn't even a forum for that game.
It is a very pretty map for Seattle, though.
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So what's the point of posting them here? To try to dredge up some sort of ... anger? This isn't even a forum for that game.
Please tell me the link to the official CGL Shadowrun Hostile Takeover forum, i'll try to get an answer there.
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Technically, here, I think:
http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/categories/other-shadowrun-games
Closest thing to a 'official' board, anyway.
Not that folks post there much.
-k
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@fexes - you might also try sending note directly to Randal and/or Jason.
Out of curiosity, what does it really matter? For the board game, doubt that some of the specifics you're referring to will actually have any impact on the game. I do appreciate the "continuity" issue, but just not seeing why it's such a big gaff (IMHO).
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For the record apart from the placement of the two arcologies there is also the following issue:
The other detail that was wrong was the Redmond Barrens. If you look at that previous map, about 1/3 of the way down on the right side, you’ll see a big park and regular suburbia…but that’s not remotely the wasteland that is the Redmond Barrens. This map appropriately takes that into consideration.
Unfortunately the map doesn't show all of Seattle Metroplex, which is not a problem in itself, but seems to have lead to the wrong conclusions. The "corrected" area is actually right in the middle of Bellevue. Redmond isn't really on the map, except for a small area in the upper right corner. It's further to the east. In addition, though I guess that's open to interpretation, this "rubble look" to me seems more suited for Puyallup.
As a remark for the issue of the two arcologies, both are not only placed right in the first edition, but especially the Renraku arcology's position has been reaffirmed by many Canon references. For example its connection to the Seattle Monorail: http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Seattle_Monorail Or Renraku Arcology: Shutdown p.12-13 which had this to say about the view from the arcology:
[..] the same massive windows that let in the sunlight also provide a spectacular view of downtown Seattle or, on the building's western and southern sides, Elliott Bay.
I suspect that the placement is based on the various covers, probably the cover of Native American Nations Volume One. Unfortunately those have never been accurate (admittedly it's hard to do as the Renraku arcology is actually five times taller than the Space Needle).
Out of curiosity, what does it really matter? For the board game, doubt that some of the specifics you're referring to will actually have any impact on the game. I do appreciate the "continuity" issue, but just not seeing why it's such a big gaff (IMHO).
It could matter for Shadowrun itself. See this older tumblr post: http://catalystgamelabs.tumblr.com/post/105300081506/when-artists-blow-you-away
Needless to say, we’ll be taking this as the coolest and most accurate map ever and folding it into a poster map in the Seattle Box Set coming end of next year…’cause this is just way, WAY too awesome to leave buried in the background of a board game.
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Out of curiosity, what does it really matter? For the board game, doubt that some of the specifics you're referring to will actually have any impact on the game. I do appreciate the "continuity" issue, but just not seeing why it's such a big gaff (IMHO).
It could matter for Shadowrun itself. See this older tumblr post: http://catalystgamelabs.tumblr.com/post/105300081506/when-artists-blow-you-away
Hmmm...fair point. For me, I tend not to get concerned about a little retconning...but do appreciate that my opinion is not universally shared. ;)
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Hmmm...fair point. For me, I tend not to get concerned about a little retconning...but do appreciate that my opinion is not universally shared. ;)
Apparently we also don't agree on what constitutes a "little retconning". But for all I know you could be in the habit of bulldozing central Bellevue with your group every week. So ... :D
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Touché ;D
Having tried to follow FSS back in the day, quickly learned to enjoy the stories as they were presented...core elements the UNIVERSE seemed to change with each release :o ;D
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I don't have access to either first edition book, but I can tell you what the maps are worth:
Zero.
No FASA markings, no FanPro markings, no CGL markings. They're fan derived work, which means their canonicity is on par with fan fiction.
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Somewhat related, I found this nice graphic illustrating the Renraku Arcology's height: http://s565.photobucket.com/user/OneTrikPony/media/RenrakuArc1.jpg.html via this old discussion on Dumpshock (http://"http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=28756").
I don't have access to either first edition book, but I can tell you what the maps are worth: [..] They're fan derived work, which means their canonicity is on par with fan fiction.
Can't agree here, it depends on how accurately they reflect canon information. And the map Fex recreated is very close to the sources. The Seattle Sourcebook / First Edition Downtown maps are themselves based on the map of (back then) contemporary Seattle. So it's not that this is somehow guesswork.
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Really nice pic found in the dumpshock discussion.
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz305/seattle2050/SeattleSATNolabelsActualMistyRotate.jpg)
Out of curiosity, is it such a big problem to change two blue marks in the map to be canonical?
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The locations of both structures are also detailed in the Seattle 2072 sourcebook. Even the Aztechnology Pyramid has the listed address of Broadway Avenue East & East Harrison Street for its main entrance; this happens to be where the big wide walkway from the white ziggurat ends in the pic fexes posted. While the map in Seattle 2072 is the better way to figure where the RA/ACHE is (you won't find the fictional address of 1 Renraku Avenue), it does match up with the modified coastline in the same pic. They also match up with the maps fexes linked in the OP (and other locations in those maps do match up with established cannon locations of the relative timeframe).
Based on size it looks like the RA/ACHE in the board game is pretty much right where the Aztechnology Pyramid really is, and the Aztechnology Pyramid itself somewhere else entirely.