Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: jim1701 on <11-08-14/2346:35>
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I can't find any info but when using this spell you gain the skills and abilities of the critter or just the form and physical stats?
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I can't find any info but when using this spell you gain the skills and abilities of the critter or just the form and physical stats?
You only gain the shape and physical attributes of the critter; you still retain human consciousness. Therefore, I would argue you do not gain the skills or abilities, as those instincts are being overridden.
If by abilities, you mean powers, then I should point out that shapechange only allows you to change into mundane critters. They wouldn't have any powers.
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I can't find any info but when using this spell you gain the skills and abilities of the critter or just the form and physical stats?
You only gain the shape and physical attributes of the critter; you still retain human consciousness. Therefore, I would argue you do not gain the skills or abilities, as those instincts are being overridden.
If by abilities, you mean powers, then I should point out that shapechange only allows you to change into mundane critters. They wouldn't have any powers.
Mundane critters do, technically, have powers. None of them would result in any kind of magic, but they have 'powers.' Natural Weapon is nearly omnipresent. Enhanced Senses is there pretty often, too.
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I can't find any info but when using this spell you gain the skills and abilities of the critter or just the form and physical stats?
You only gain the shape and physical attributes of the critter; you still retain human consciousness. Therefore, I would argue you do not gain the skills or abilities, as those instincts are being overridden.
If by abilities, you mean powers, then I should point out that shapechange only allows you to change into mundane critters. They wouldn't have any powers.
Mundane critters do, technically, have powers. None of them would result in any kind of magic, but they have 'powers.' Natural Weapon is nearly omnipresent. Enhanced Senses is there pretty often, too.
Hmm, I guess you get into GM fiat territory here. Natural Weapon and Enhanced Senses aren't gamebreaking by any means (hell, lots of 'ware does the same thing), so I would allow them. The rules are frustratingly vague.
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For all intents and purposes, you are the critter. You get all the powers of the critter too, which is why the Shapechange spell usually doesn't allow paracritters.
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For all intents and purposes, you are the critter. You get all the powers of the critter too, which is why the Shapechange spell usually doesn't allow paracritters.
Well, that's something I've been playing wrong. Good to know then.
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Just remember that canine smell when you are trapped with Mongo on a steakout....
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Honestly, the rules don't explicitly state that you get the powers of the critter's form. But IIRC (and I could be wrong) the same spell gave the subject the powers in previous editions. That's what I'm basing my statement on. Plus, it's a physical manipulation spell rather than an illusion.
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Just remember that canine smell when you are trapped with Mongo on a steakout....
How would you smell anything over that delicious steak?
Now, on a stakeout I could understand the enhanced canine sense of smell being a problem with Mongo...
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Just remember that canine smell when you are trapped with Mongo on a steakout....
How would you smell anything over that delicious steak?
Now, on a stakeout I could understand the enhanced canine sense of smell being a problem with Mongo...
<. <
>.>
X.x
Damn auto correct?
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So, just to be sure I am getting this correct .. physical attributes are determined by the spell, mental attributes stay the same. Get the powers of a critter like a Dog
Enhanced Senses (Hearing, Smell), Natural
Weapon (Claws/Bite: DV (STR+1)P, AP —)
but not the skills a real dog has - just because you bark like a dog and have teeth like one does not mean you get its unarmed skill.
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So, just to be sure I am getting this correct .. physical attributes are determined by the spell, mental attributes stay the same. Get the powers of a critter like a Dog Enhanced Senses (Hearing, Smell), Natural
Weapon (Claws/Bite: DV (STR+1)P, AP —)
but not the skills a real dog has - just because you bark like a dog and have teeth like one does not mean you get its unarmed skill.
Bingo. Was his name-o.
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So, just to be sure I am getting this correct .. physical attributes are determined by the spell, mental attributes stay the same. Get the powers of a critter like a Dog Enhanced Senses (Hearing, Smell), Natural
Weapon (Claws/Bite: DV (STR+1)P, AP —)
but not the skills a real dog has - just because you bark like a dog and have teeth like one does not mean you get its unarmed skill.
I admit this is logical but there is a problem using logic here. First this is a magic spell so logic may or may not have anything to do with it. Second if a mage does not gain the skills of the critter then the critter form has little use to the mage unless you want to say that logically a human's unarmed combat skill (for example) translates to that of a dog or great cat or even a shark? By the same token how would you even move in critter form unless you mystically gain the ability to know how to move on all fours or swim using a tail.
The spell's description is annoyingly vague and has virtually the same description word for word. The spell just says the target becomes the critter but with their human mental attributes. This indicates to me that the target mystically gains the target's "skills" and abilities but without the intent explicitly states I can see the opposite view being taken as well.
Thanks for all the input so far.
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Don't overcomplicate it :)
Maybe you could require some Zoology knowledge to act appropriately, but the spell mentions no need for it. So just assume that you know what each body part is used for in which circumstance but use the appropriate skills of the character.
If you cast it on an unarmed specialist then he will do fine as a tiger, but casting it on Joe Couchpotatoe wouldn't do much.
It doesn't mention that you get the skills, so you don't.
It doesn't mention that you need specific knowledge, so you don't.
For how to use tests refer to the specific chapters, nothing changes about that.