Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: 8-bit on (21:29:42/10-30-14)

Title: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: 8-bit on (21:29:42/10-30-14)
Datajacks are, at least in my opinion, one of the more useful augmentations. It's cheap in both cost and Essence, and it provides quite a few bonuses. Now here's the question. Technically, and according to Aaron, you can stack as many datajacks as you want to accumulate noise reduction. Except this means you can have so much noise mitigation you never take noise penalties. So, how many does everyone allow? My personal max is 3, but I've never implemented it yet, because it has never come up.

I can see the argument for only one, which is all most people will ever need. However, deckers and riggers can greatly benefit from having multiples. I mean, they are so cheap; here's the math.

10 datajacks at used grade - 7,500 nuyen | 1.25 Essence
10 datajacks at standard grade - 10,000 nuyen | 1.0 Essence
10 datajacks at alphaware grade - 12,000 nuyen | 0.8 Essence

I mean, pretty much any Rigger or Decker can fit that in their budget. I am really lenient on stacking rules (I am kind of a munchkin...), but this seems extreme even to me.

What are your opinions?
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: PiXeL01 on (22:22:14/10-30-14)
In the old days never runners, especially deckers and riggers had multiple jacks in their heads, sometimes as many as four. So I guess four would be my limit. However, I would never allow them to stack at my table no matter what others say.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Imveros on (23:01:02/10-30-14)
I set the limit at my table to 4 as well. My decker wanted 6 of the darn things. I kinda just wish i had said nope they don't stack, but its so much harder to take away the toys than give them ~_~
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: firebug on (23:52:53/10-30-14)
I don't let my players stack the wireless bonus, so they usually tend to have just one.  Not often they have a bunch of things they need DNI to but not have wireless.  Fifth Edition kind of made that non-existent for everything but smartguns.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Namikaze on (02:29:27/10-31-14)
Yeah I have no problem with someone wanting as many datajacks as they feel they "need" but they only get the wireless bonus once.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Csjarrat on (11:39:59/10-31-14)
seconded.
For me, the bonus to having multiple datajacks is the ability to wire up multiple cabled connections. there is no further wireless bonus, but if a player wants to walk around looking like something out of a museum piece, then so be it.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: 8-bit on (12:00:37/10-31-14)
Thanks for the answers everyone! Removing the stacking of wireless datajacks does get rid of their most exploitable feature, while still allowing them to be useful.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Tarislar on (20:41:47/10-31-14)
Well multiple jacks has been in SR since the beginning.

If Aaron says they stack then I'd go with that.

In the end they are giving up Cash & Essence, sure its not much, but that is a permanent loss to the character.
I'm not up on decking rules in 5E but isn't Noise just a big set of Negatives to dice pools?
So basically it makes you worse at things?  So its going to slow the game down, meh, I say let it stack.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: 8-bit on (20:51:16/10-31-14)
Well multiple jacks has been in SR since the beginning.

If Aaron says they stack then I'd go with that.

In the end they are giving up Cash & Essence, sure its not much, but that is a permanent loss to the character.
I'm not up on decking rules in 5E but isn't Noise just a big set of Negatives to dice pools?
So basically it makes you worse at things?  So its going to slow the game down, meh, I say let it stack.

It is a penalty to your dice pool, but that's the point. There is supposed to be some lag and data that gets lost due to distance/spam (aka high traffic)/static (aka no connection) zones. If you stack 10 datajacks, you can quite literally never be affected by noise; something that multi-thousand nuyen devices have to deal with as the norm, for only a bit of essence, money, and a metahuman body to put them in.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Shaidar on (01:34:59/11-02-14)
Personally, as my groups GM I'd rule that you'd only receive Noise reduction from the jack that is in the connection chain for a single wireless device.  So, 1 Noise reduction for your Deck on Datajack channel 1, 1 Noise reduction on your Comlink on Datajack channel 2, and so on.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: All4BigGuns on (02:37:43/11-02-14)
Personally, as my groups GM I'd rule that you'd only receive Noise reduction from the jack that is in the connection chain for a single wireless device.  So, 1 Noise reduction for your Deck on Datajack channel 1, 1 Noise reduction on your Comlink on Datajack channel 2, and so on.

And what if you get someone who figures out a way to chain every one of them through a device (somehow, no clue how)?
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Namikaze on (03:41:32/11-02-14)
Personally, as my groups GM I'd rule that you'd only receive Noise reduction from the jack that is in the connection chain for a single wireless device.  So, 1 Noise reduction for your Deck on Datajack channel 1, 1 Noise reduction on your Comlink on Datajack channel 2, and so on.

There's no reason to believe that a datajack (with wireless connectivity) is limited to one device.  And without the wireless, there's no noise reduction anyway.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Shaidar on (08:41:02/11-02-14)
Each individual Datajack is still only a single connection to your one and only brain.  Please forgive me for any smugness or pedantry that might become evident in the post to follow.  My reasoning chain follows:

1)
Quote from: SR5 pg 233
PANS AND WANS
If you want extra protection for some of your devices, you can slave them to your commlink or deck. Your commlink (or deck) can handle up to (Device Rating x 3) slaved devices, becoming the master device in that particular relationship. The group consisting of your slaved devices plus your master commlink or deck is called a personal area network, or PAN.

So, therefore Commlinks or Cyberdecks are Required to form a PAN and possibly attain connectivity to benefit form Wireless Bonuses.

2)
Quote from: SR5 pg 421
WIRELESS BONUSES
Because nearly every piece of gear and íware is wireless capable, it means nearly every piece of gear and cyberware benefits dramatically from being ďmeshedĒ into your wireless personal area network and the Matrix as a whole. When an item has additional functionality when connected to the Matrix, itís described under the ďWirelessĒ entry in the itemís description. This functionality only applies when the device has access to the Matrix, which is most of the time unless your gamemaster says otherwise, like if youíve entered a wireless static zone. If there is a Noise Rating from a situation that is greater than the itemís Device Rating, not including distance, the item temporarily loses its wireless functionality (see Noise, p. 230).
These benefits only apply when the itemís wireless mode is on. Your Ares Alpha canít auto-adjust for the wind direction and speed if it canít download local upto-the-second weather conditions, and your Eurocar Westwind 3000 doesnít know the status of the next three traffic lights if itís not connected to GridGuide. A wireless device is always vulnerable to subversion and control by a hacker within wireless handshake range. You can defend your gear with a good commlink and a personal area network (see PANs and WANs, p. 233). Even better, defending against threats from the Matrix is part of your team hackerís job. If sheís not available, you might occasionally want to turn wireless off.

Consequently, while everything can send data out to HOSTS for data analysis to optimise situational performance, not Every device has processing power/Device Rating to handle the data transfer to the Matrix.  IF it is connected to the Matrix via a PAN.

3)
Commlink and Cyberdeck charts on page 439 of SR5.

We see clearly, and explicitly, that Commlinks and Cyberdecks have Device Ratings and thus processing Power.

4)
Quote from: SR5 pg 452
Datajack: A datajack gives you a direct neural interface (p. 222), which can be handy in a lot of situations. It also comes with a retractable spool of micro-cable (about a meter long) that lets you directly interface with any electronic device via a universal access cable. Datajacks are equipped with their own cache of storage memory for downloading or saving files. Two datajack users can string a fiberoptic cable between themselves to conduct a private mental communication immune to radio interception or eavesdropping.
Wireless: The datajack gives you Rating 1 noise reduction.

A Datajack can only interface with A (singular) electronic Device.

5)
Headware chart on page 453 of SR5.

Datajacks definitely have NO Device Rating or it would be listed in the table.

Now we pair up SR terminology with some RL terminology that mot tech-heads understand to contextualize their functions.  Interface (input and output hardware)/DNI, Router (center point for a small-scale network)/PAN, Processor/Device Rating, and Connectivity (benefits gained for communicating between hardware)/Wireless Bonus.  So Datajacks and their forefather the electrode serve a the user's Interface, while the Commlink and their big brother the Cyberdeck serve as the PAN's Router, and the Wireless Bonus is the benefits gained from connectivity with the Matrix.

A Datajack is NOT a PAN in and of itself, it has no Device Rating and no processing power only neural connection and optical memory storage.  Only Commlinks and Cyberdecks have Device Ratings and processing power in the chain of hardware.

BUT, if they are connected to the Matrix via being meshed into a PAN they can send their current data transfer requirements to the manufacturers HOST and receive back optimization protocols which allow your connection to be more resistant to random RF interference/Noise.

So'ka?
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (10:39:00/11-02-14)
Shaidar
A datajacks device rating is determined by its grade.

See Device Ratings table, page 234.

Basic cyberware begins at DR 2, with Delta grade ending up at DR5.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: St Evil on (13:41:38/11-02-14)
Seth Dietrich has 4 Data Jacks.  So I would see no problem w/ that.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: toad on (14:33:49/11-02-14)
4)
Quote from: SR5 pg 452
Datajack: A datajack gives you a direct neural interface (p. 222), which can be handy in a lot of situations. It also comes with a retractable spool of micro-cable (about a meter long) that lets you directly interface with any electronic device via a universal access cable. Datajacks are equipped with their own cache of storage memory for downloading or saving files. Two datajack users can string a fiberoptic cable between themselves to conduct a private mental communication immune to radio interception or eavesdropping.
Wireless: The datajack gives you Rating 1 noise reduction.

A Datajack can only interface with A (singular) electronic Device.

That seems like quite A leap of logic.  ;)  The bold type are from two different sentences. The "a" sentence is talking about the cable.

These are the type of esoteric rules in hacking/decking that have always seemed intentionally fuzzy, so I can understand your line of thought. But personally I'd align with Herr Brackhaus and Namikaze, that a datajack can talk to multiple wireless devices without a comm/deck.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Namikaze on (01:31:59/11-03-14)
Each individual Datajack is still only a single connection to your one and only brain.  Please forgive me for any smugness or pedantry that might become evident in the post to follow.  My reasoning chain follows:

Thanks for the warning.  :)

1)
So, therefore Commlinks or Cyberdecks are Required to form a PAN and possibly attain connectivity to benefit form Wireless Bonuses.

You're looking at the quote very literally.  While I agree that a Commlink or Cyberdeck can create a PAN, I disagree that those are the only devices that can do so.  For instance, a Rigger Control Console can control a fleet of drones via the PAN.  And there's no reason to believe that it cannot be a master at all.

2)
Consequently, while everything can send data out to HOSTS for data analysis to optimise situational performance, not Every device has processing power/Device Rating to handle the data transfer to the Matrix.

Not true.

Quote from: SR5, Page 234
if itís big enough for a microchip, itís big enough to house enough computing power to be a device. And if itís a device, itís in the Matrix.

So everything big enough to hold a microchip is a device.  And every device has a device rating (as denoted on the Device Rating table on page 234).  Ergo, every device has a rating and can be connected to the Matrix.

3)
Commlink and Cyberdeck charts on page 439 of SR5.

We see clearly, and explicitly, that Commlinks and Cyberdecks have Device Ratings and thus processing Power.

Looking at the Device Ratings table on page 234, you can clearly see that all devices have a Device Rating.  From the lowly toaster to the highest-end cyberdeck.

4)
A Datajack can only interface with A (singular) electronic Device.

If you feel like it, you can look through my post history and you'll see where I made the exact same argument as you did.  In fact, I did it rather brusquely and the conversation got a bit heated as a result.  My argument was that a datajack has to be connected via fiber optic cable to a commlink, which hosts the PAN.  However, based on conversations that I've had with developers and with Bull (the Missions coordinator and employee of Catalyst), I was corrected.  A datajack can host multiple devices, provided the connection is wireless.

5)
Headware chart on page 453 of SR5.

Datajacks definitely have NO Device Rating or it would be listed in the table.

Datajacks don't need a device rating on that table because it's on the Device Rating table on page 234.

Now we pair up SR terminology with some RL terminology that mot tech-heads understand to contextualize their functions.  Interface (input and output hardware)/DNI, Router (center point for a small-scale network)/PAN, Processor/Device Rating, and Connectivity (benefits gained for communicating between hardware)/Wireless Bonus.  So Datajacks and their forefather the electrode serve a the user's Interface, while the Commlink and their big brother the Cyberdeck serve as the PAN's Router, and the Wireless Bonus is the benefits gained from connectivity with the Matrix.

I'm what you might call a tech-head (I've got 25 years of IT experience, about 10 years of programming experience, and about 10 years of system and network administration experience), so I get the terminology.  Unfortunately for this logic, none of the technology of 5th edition has any basis whatsoever in reality.  In fact, at the beginning of the Matrix chapter it explicitly states as much:

Quote from: SR5, Page 214
The paradox of the Matrix is this: to be an ace hacker, you need to understand itóbut no one really understands it.

So'ka?

I do not think that means what you think it means.  What I believe you meant to ask is "wakarimasu ka?" which means "do you understand?"  What you instead said was akin to "I get it?"  Honestly, if anything about your post came off as belligerent, it's this because A) the phrase is not correct and B) the phrase is unnecessary.  Saying it in a foreign language assumes that either I speak Japanese (which I do somewhat okay) or that I'll spend the time necessary to look it up.  It's totally unnecessary and a little insulting.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Lucean on (04:22:48/11-03-14)
Namikaze, it's a common phrase of street slang in Shadowrun, so the use itself shouldn't be seen as insulting. Although you are right, it's use at this point of his posting was wrong. Page 15 CRB lists it with the translation you gave.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Namikaze on (12:09:11/11-03-14)
Yes, it's part of Shadowrun slang.  But it's pretty obvious (at least to me) that it was intended to be a sort of barb.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Namikaze on (04:40:51/11-04-14)
Oh, I give people the benefit of the doubt.  Probably more than some around here.  But when the post starts with "I apologize if this is going to sound smug or pedantic," it's kind of like saying "with all due respect."  No one ever starts a respectful statement with "all due respect."  If you want to continue this discussion about how I post, what I post, and such....  send me a PM.  You've now derailed two separate threads on this topic.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on (05:21:24/11-04-14)
I would SO allow a character to a) get as many datajacks as they wanted, and b) stack the noise cancellation, while c) connecting all those 'jacks into essentially the same system, i.e. their 'deck.  OH hell yes.

Because any Black IC (and maybe some grey) they encounter is going to receive a +1 modifier for each 1 to Noise Reduction they stacked, for every one of its screw-your-brain-up rolls.  You wanted to run hot, well, this is as hot as it gets ...
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: 8-bit on (10:41:12/11-04-14)
I would SO allow a character to a) get as many datajacks as they wanted, and b) stack the noise cancellation, while c) connecting all those 'jacks into essentially the same system, i.e. their 'deck.  OH hell yes.

Because any Black IC (and maybe some grey) they encounter is going to receive a +1 modifier for each 1 to Noise Reduction they stacked, for every one of its screw-your-brain-up rolls.  You wanted to run hot, well, this is as hot as it gets ...

Gotta live life on the edge; go big or go dead. Err...

Anyway, that sounds like a really good drawback. Any biofeedback damage gets extra damage, because you basically wired your brain even more closely to your devices.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Dr. Meatgrinder on (21:19:23/11-04-14)
I would SO allow a character to a) get as many datajacks as they wanted, and b) stack the noise cancellation, while c) connecting all those 'jacks into essentially the same system, i.e. their 'deck.  OH hell yes.

Because any Black IC (and maybe some grey) they encounter is going to receive a +1 modifier for each 1 to Noise Reduction they stacked, for every one of its screw-your-brain-up rolls.  You wanted to run hot, well, this is as hot as it gets ...

Gotta live life on the edge; go big or go dead. Err...

Anyway, that sounds like a really good drawback. Any biofeedback damage gets extra damage, because you basically wired your brain even more closely to your devices.

By that logic, anyone with an implanted deck or commlink should just reroll now.  Or any hot-sim module, because it's designed exactly for jacking your brain into the Matrix.

Sure, a single datajack isn't that much money and Essence, but by the time the decker stacks as many as you seem to worry about it adds up.  Also, a datajack is a device you have to connect to your PAN to get a wireless bonus, and you can only do so much of that (DRx3 slaved devices).
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: 8-bit on (21:37:19/11-04-14)
I just can't win. Your points are good though. Especially the slaving limit, I forgot about that.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on (02:45:24/11-05-14)
Yes, you're correct, Meatgrinder - hot sim modules &c. are meant to tie you in tighter to the 'trix - and that's what they do, and you can take lethal damage from them, as compared to the Stun Only cold-sim gives you.  But it still is going 'only one route'.

The difference between cold and hot sim is all the limiters.  With cold sim, you can only spike so high, you can only push so strong a signal through.  Remove those limiters (go hot), and everything can get through - in both directions.  Your temperature gauge is removed, so instead of it maxing out at 120į, it can scald you with 180į water.  That doesn't change how much water can come through, only the temperature range.

The difference between one datajack and three (or six, or ten, or twenty) is how much water is coming through at once.  If you have a flow trouble on one line (i.e. noise), you're still getting a steady enough flow on #2 and #3 to make up for it - they counteract the loss of the flow.  The total amount you're able to handle may not change, but it will always be getting through.  Which means if you're getting hit by IC, the code is going to have an easier time damaging you - because that signal is always getting through.

If you do decide to combine the two, then yeah - flatline city, population you.  But don't confuse quantity (multiple jacks) with quality (hot sim).  ;)
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: The_Hyphenator on (01:18:14/11-06-14)
I would SO allow a character to a) get as many datajacks as they wanted, and b) stack the noise cancellation, while c) connecting all those 'jacks into essentially the same system, i.e. their 'deck.  OH hell yes.

Because any Black IC (and maybe some grey) they encounter is going to receive a +1 modifier for each 1 to Noise Reduction they stacked, for every one of its screw-your-brain-up rolls.  You wanted to run hot, well, this is as hot as it gets ...

That's...a pretty genius solution to the problem, actually. I don't have any players who are munchkin enough to go the multiple datajacks route, but if I did, I'd probably hit them with something like this.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Longshot23 on (05:32:21/11-06-14)
About due for my signature Stupid QuestionTM - is a Firewall in a Datajack pointless?
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Lucean on (07:00:15/11-06-14)
It already has a Firewall, due to being a Device. Devices have Data Processing and Firewall equal to their Device Rating, so that would be 2 for a standard Datajack, rising to 5 for deltaware.
You can slave it to your commlink and get a Firewall of up to 7 with the Fairlight.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: 8-bit on (11:16:38/11-06-14)
It already has a Firewall, due to being a Device. Devices have Data Processing and Firewall equal to their Device Rating, so that would be 2 for a standard Datajack, rising to 5 for deltaware.
You can slave it to your commlink and get a Firewall of up to 7 with the Fairlight.

Or slave it to your deck and get up to a Firewall of 10 with the Fairlight Excalibur. I get your point though.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on (21:03:38/11-06-14)
Which only works against attacks on - not through, but on, or against - that particular piece of 'ware, e.g. to shut your datajack down.  A great tactic to shut you out; not so good if you want to melt their brain.  ;)
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Lucean on (02:06:43/11-07-14)
I don't understand the point you try to make, Wyrm.
With Firewall you're never going to melt anyones brain.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on (02:33:52/11-07-14)
... yyyeah.  You are aware of what Firewall protects, right?  And before you say anything, understand that Firewall on your pistol's smartlink does not protect the gun's  bullets.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Lucean on (03:03:31/11-07-14)
Since I don't put chips into bullets, I wouldn't worry about them. Guided missiles and wirelessly enabled grenades would be different, yes, but if a decker tries to hack bullets I'd seriously question their mental stat distribution.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on (04:16:39/11-07-14)
Wow.  Okay, yeah, you're missing it completely, so I guess I need to be clear.  And really, I don't need to be clear for you, but for Longshot, who asked:

A Firewall protects a piece of electronics.  So yes, a datajack has a Firewall rating - which protects it.  The datajack's Firewall does not protect the brain sitting behind it from any hard code coming through; it only protects against the appropriate attacks against the datajack's functionality.  So you can brick a datajack, and the person will need to get it fixed; until then, it doesn't work at all.  A datajack's Firewall prevents the bricking from ever happening.

The datajack's Firewall does not, however, prevent IC from turning your brain into goo.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Csjarrat on (04:52:21/11-07-14)
"e author=The Wyrm Ouroboros link=topic=18536.msg329720#msg329720 date=1415325818]
Which only works against attacks on - not through, but on, or against - that particular piece of 'ware, e.g. to shut your datajack down.  A great tactic to shut you out; not so good if you want to melt their brain.  ;)
[/quote]"
Ok, disclaimer; its been a while since i played as a decker!

But your brain isn't a device so can't be attacked directly. you have to attack an icon, which means you'd attack against whatever device had formed the persona, be it a comm, a deck, a vehicle or an RCC. damage not resisted can then be transferred to the body if in VR
You can also slave your equipment to another piece of equipment for extra defense iirc. so if you were johnny cheap-skate and were relying on your metalink for your matrix needs, in theory slaving it to your datajack would give you a boost to your defences as it would have a higher firewall than the metalink's DR 1 defences, especially if you'd got a deltaware version.
You would of course have to explicitly state you'd slaved your kit to it though, no takebacks after dice are rolled :-)

@Wyrm, what's your take on daisy-chaining device slaving?
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Lucean on (05:50:09/11-07-14)
Wow.  Okay, yeah, you're missing it completely, so I guess I need to be clear.  And really, I don't need to be clear for you, but for Longshot, who asked:

A Firewall protects a piece of electronics.  So yes, a datajack has a Firewall rating - which protects itThe datajack's Firewall does not protect the brain sitting behind it from any hard code coming through; it only protects against the appropriate attacks against the datajack's functionality.  So you can brick a datajack, and the person will need to get it fixed; until then, it doesn't work at all.  A datajack's Firewall prevents the bricking from ever happening.

The datajack's Firewall does not, however, prevent IC from turning your brain into goo.
His question was a general one. Nothing in it related to be aiming at the value of the Firewall attribute of a datajack for a decker. So it seems we were aiming at completely different points.

With the underlined part you seem to refer to biofeedback damage. But you use Willpower+Firewall for the roll to resist it. So unless I'm (again) not getting your point, you're wrong.
Although this wouldn't even be relevant, since you'd IMHO need to be accessing the matrix with your datajack as a Persona to worry about biofeedback.
You're confusing me. Can deckers and technomancers now kill people by attacking their wireless devices with biofeedback?
IC shouldn't be able to turn your brain into goo, because a datajack lacks both Attack and Sleaze, which you need to illegally enter hosts.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Longshot23 on (06:04:51/11-07-14)
Wow.  Okay, yeah, you're missing it completely, so I guess I need to be clear.  And really, I don't need to be clear for you, but for Longshot, who asked:

A Firewall protects a piece of electronics.  So yes, a datajack has a Firewall rating - which protects it.  The datajack's Firewall does not protect the brain sitting behind it from any hard code coming through; it only protects against the appropriate attacks against the datajack's functionality.  So you can brick a datajack, and the person will need to get it fixed; until then, it doesn't work at all.  A datajack's Firewall prevents the bricking from ever happening.

The datajack's Firewall does not, however, prevent IC from turning your brain into goo.

Getting into different thread topic, maybe . . . But okay, the datajack's Firewall protects the datajack. Wouldn't any intrusion - IC attack, decker attack, whatever - have to get past the datajack Firewall, then the cyberdeck/commlink firewall (or vice versa) before it can have any effect on the subject/target's soft gooey brain?
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Lucean on (06:11:45/11-07-14)
If they want to affect you with biofeedback you have to be using cold or hot sim.

And you can only use one device's Firewall attribute in a defense test. So most often your cyberdeck or commlink should be the device with the highest rating and you slave other devices to it that you want to be protected.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Longshot23 on (06:23:44/11-07-14)
If they want to affect you with biofeedback you have to be using cold or hot sim.

And you can only use one device's Firewall attribute in a defense test. So most often your cyberdeck or commlink should be the device with the highest rating and you slave other devices to it that you want to be protected.

Aha, just the sort of ruling I was after.  Thanx muchly.
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Acolyte on (03:32:20/11-08-14)
I would SO allow a character to a) get as many datajacks as they wanted, and b) stack the noise cancellation, while c) connecting all those 'jacks into essentially the same system, i.e. their 'deck.  OH hell yes.

Because any Black IC (and maybe some grey) they encounter is going to receive a +1 modifier for each 1 to Noise Reduction they stacked, for every one of its screw-your-brain-up rolls.  You wanted to run hot, well, this is as hot as it gets ...

So, where is this rule? I can't seem to find it unless you're just talking about the IC not having to deal with noise reduction itself.

Have I missed something?
   - Shane
Title: Re: Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on (03:41:08/11-08-14)
Acolyte
My guess is that The Wyrm Ouroboros was presenting how he would allow the stacking effects of multiple Datajacks with a house ruled caveat.

In essence, no such thing as a free ride.

Since IC only exists in hosts they would ignore noise penalties anyway what with everything in a Host being considered directly connected.

That's my guess, anyway.