Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Fizzygoo on <12-11-10/2034:47>
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Commlink Models are bought at base Response/Signal ratings and SR4A p 222 lists Hardware Upgrade Costs (with noted Availabilities).
For OS's (OSes, OSi, plural options heh), SR4A p 232, lists the costs of System and Firewall but it does not specifically say "Upgrades." However, I would assume that at CharGen a player could choose to purchase a Meta Link Model and a Vector Xirn OS (1/2/1/1) for 300¥, pay 5,000¥ to upgrade Response/Signal to 5 (this would be max as availability for both is 12), and then pay another 5,000¥ to purchase System/Firewalls at 5 (though theoretically the player could purchase them both at 6 for 6,000¥ total as there is no availability given for either System or Firewall). This would give the character a nice 5/5/5/5 commlink in a "low-end stock-box," for a total of 10,300¥, yes?
The short version of the above question is "can System and Firewall be upgraded from the stock OS's at CharGen."
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I don't think so, for the following reasons:
* The prices listed on page 232 are for buying from scratch.
* Upgrades are limited to +2 for hardware (SR4A, pg. 222), you can't upgrade the Meta Link to 5/5.
Given the scaling of the prices, I'm willing to believe the upgrade prices listed on page 222 are total (ie, going from 3 -> 5 and 4 -> 5 costs the same)
Therefore, might I suggest this instead:
* Novatech Airwave (3/3) for 1250
* Response Upgrade (5) for 4000
* Signal Upgrade (5) for 1000
* "Generic" System rating 5 for 2500
* "Generic" Firewall rating 5 for 2500
Total cost: 11,250 ¥.
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No. To upgrade System and Firewall, you either need to upgrade to a better stock OS, or buy them as software separately. Note that if you do the latter, you don't have to buy a stock OS first.
One of the changes in SR4A (the Anniversary edition) is that you can only upgrade hardware up to 2 over the original rating, unless you spend 1,000¥ for the modular electronics modification. So the cheapest for a 5/5/5/5 commlink would be 100¥ for a Meta Link, 1,000¥ for the modular electronics modification, 5,000¥ to upgrade the hardware, and 5,000¥ to buy the software, for a total of 11,100¥, which isn't bad.
Of course, if you buy Unwired, you will probably be adding a number of "must-have" upgrades to that commlink.
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...unless you spend 1,000¥ for the modular electronics modification...
I don't doubt it's there (there are too many mods for me to keep track of them all), but where is this mod from? I checked SR4A, Arsenal, and Unwired, didn't see it in any of them.
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Look here (http://shadowrun4.com/resources/sr4a/sr4a_changes.pdf) on page 3.
The RAW said, that it is for vehicle electronics and imply: not for commlinks. So the adaption to commlinks is a little bit difficult if you thing about the different Slots... a commlink slot point isn't the same as a vihicle slot point. ;)
But as optional rule or houserule it's possible.
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Look here (http://shadowrun4.com/resources/sr4a/sr4a_changes.pdf) on page 3.
But it RAW said, that it is for vehicle electronics and not for commlinks. So the adaption to commlinks is a little bit difficult if you thing about the different Slots... a commlink slot point isn't the same as a vihicle slot point. ;)
But as optional rule or houserule it's possible.
No wonder I didn't find the dang thing, I like how they stipulate that it won't make it to print until a "future" Arsenal re-print / errata.
Thanks, UV.
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Thanks ya'all. That's the only thing that has annoyed me with the layout of SR4 (old or A, so far) is that the hardware upgrades and OS program costs are not listed in the Equipment section next to the stock models and OS's. Thank you berry berry muches :)
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I'll add this post here too.....
Ahh but I walk into the store I say hey I need some things he says ok what ya need I give my list:
I buy the Response parts for 4k (rating 5)
the Signal parts for 1k (rating 5)
I buy the Firewall parts for 3k (rating 6)
and the system parts for 3k (rating 6).
He says ok thats gonna be 11k. I say thinks now I got a commlink he says to me son you need a case to put all that in here I'll sell you one for 100 I say ok thanks and walk out.
I go home I make a commlink the has the stats of 5/5/6/6 for 11,100 nuyen SURE it runs at a level 5 system (untill I can go back an buy the rating 6 response and signal). BUT it is also upgradeable buy 2 levels from here. Which would allow me (once I buy the upgrades needed) to have a system of 8/8/8/8.
THERE is nothing that says I can't buy the parts and build a rating 6 commlink then upgrade it.
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THERE is nothing that says I can't buy the parts and build a rating 6 commlink then upgrade it.
It will take time, effort, money, and at least a few issues to go over, possibly involving a run, or some freelancing with B&E, or paying the seller off with the Hacker's services, but it should work. I'd allow that in two-three game sessions. And i'd give that one a free* +1 bonus to Initiative, and one matrix action as with the personalizations from Unwired - it's your own baby, you know it better than anyone. But anyone else would suffer penalties.
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A self-build commlink costs half the prize of the upgrade. And you could by a rating 6 Hardware, if you get the Restricted Gear Quality. But everything after 6 is only to get or build with GM approval!
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He says ok thats gonna be 11k. I say thinks now I got a commlink he says to me son you need a case to put all that in here I'll sell you one for 100 I say ok thanks and walk out.
I don't think you can just throw hardware upgrade modules in a cheap "case" like that. You can normally only use them to upgrade stock hardware (within +2) or hook them up to a modular electronics unit (unlimited rating). So if you just use a cheap "case" for 100¥ (i.e., a Meta Link) then you can only crank it up to Response 3, Signal 4. However, if you use a basic modular platform for 1,100¥ then you can upgrade it as much as you like. You aren't limited to 2 more levels, so you can put in any hardware you can get your hands on.
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He says ok thats gonna be 11k. I say thinks now I got a commlink he says to me son you need a case to put all that in here I'll sell you one for 100 I say ok thanks and walk out.
I don't think you can just throw hardware upgrade modules in a cheap "case" like that. You can normally only use them to upgrade stock hardware (within +2) or hook them up to a modular electronics unit (unlimited rating). So if you just use a cheap "case" for 100¥ (i.e., a Meta Link) then you can only crank it up to Response 3, Signal 4. However, if you use a basic modular platform for 1,100¥ then you can upgrade it as much as you like. You aren't limited to 2 more levels, so you can put in any hardware you can get your hands on.
Ok I disagree with you (which Is allowed lol) As I have a computer case I've owned for 10+ years that cost me 50 bucks which I just buy new bigger better parts to put in it.
YES Shadowrun differs from our "real" world but something as basic as a commlink case even in Shadowrun should always be something of a cheap buy
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I've built computers from parts too. :) You won't get far with just a CPU, wireless card, and case. You need a motherboard too! The cheap mobo in a 100¥ MetaLink can only handle lightweight upgrades. For heavy-duty upgrades, you need a better stock unit, or a modular unit (1,000¥).
The RAW back this up too, as you can only use upgrade modules to upgrade existing hardware, as the name implies. They don't have stats for OEM components. :)
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The prices listed in SR4A are specifically for upgrade modules. As Bradd points out, they (and the 100¥ cheap case) don't include:
The motherboard
The power supply
Any buswork which is not part of the buswork
And those three items are, practically speaking, what limits your ability to upgrade, as represented by the +2 cap on upgrading gear.
As a GM, I'm going to let you build your own comm-link, but it's not going to be as simple / cheap as buying an empty case and upgrade parts intended for hot-swapping into existing commlinks.
I might (it's counter productive to the megas to make building your own commlink cheap or easy) let you buy a "bare-bones" (That's case + MoBo + PS + Buswork) with a pre-defined upgrade limit. Otherwise, you'll either need to harvest parts from an existing commlink, build your barebones system from scratch, or lift a bare-bones system during a run against an electronics manufacturing plant.
All this puts us heavily in the "what your GM allows" territory.
If a GM wanted to be a jerk, he could point out that an empty case has a Device Rating of 0, and thus was limited in accepting upgrades to 2/2. Heck, I could see the AAA's even doing whatever it took to ensure that this was the limit of the private consumer's ability to make their own commlinks. Guarantees that the hobbyist electrician gets laughed at by their consumerist friends.
Maybe I'm missing something, but reading over "The Wireless World" in SR4A, particularly the sections on upgrading and using the hardware skill, "Using Technical Skills to Build or Repair" on page 138 of SR4A, and going through Unwired, I can't find any RAW that supports build-from-scratch commlinks except for the very GM Fiat heavy "Using Technical Skills to Build or Repair" rules.
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I might (it's counter productive to the megas to make building your own commlink cheap or easy) let you buy a "bare-bones" (That's case + MoBo + PS + Buswork) with a pre-defined upgrade limit. Otherwise, you'll either need to harvest parts from an existing commlink, build your barebones system from scratch, or lift a bare-bones system during a run against an electronics manufacturing plant.
Yes and no. Its counterproductive to Corp A to make its system modular if they make the whole system. However, its VERY productive to corp B to make compatible knockoff hardware that works with corp A. This was IBM's thinking once upon a time when they figured they'd license their architecture rather than worry about building every last peripheral themselves. The model worked so well that Apple eventually broke down and switched to the same modular (sort of) setup. Most people still don't scratch build a system because its a bit intimidating until you do it once.
On the other hand, you have iPhone. Its a black box. You can't swap parts. You can't use it for anything Apple doesn't want you to unless you hack it. You can't even write your own programs for it without an Apple desktop and uploading it to Mama Apple for approval and inclusion in their store. Its wildly successful because the technology is a notch ahead of the competition and the marketing is great.
Which one will win out in the portable market in the long run? Hard to say. It really comes down to whether the Shadowrun public wants a communication/entertainment device or a full featured computer. So is each commlink an individual design incompatible with the others or are they all IBM compatibles with different motherboards, hard drives etc?
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But everything after 6 is only to get or build with GM approval!
According to people who have it, WAR contains rules for comlinks and software up to rating 10.
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The highest base commlink in War! is the Transys Cybernaut - R/S 9/8; Availability 48F; 65,000¥.
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Me likey!
Anything milspec is gonna make me drool, really.
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Maybe I'm missing something, but reading over "The Wireless World" in SR4A, particularly the sections on upgrading and using the hardware skill, "Using Technical Skills to Build or Repair" on page 138 of SR4A, and going through Unwired, I can't find any RAW that supports build-from-scratch commlinks except for the very GM Fiat heavy "Using Technical Skills to Build or Repair" rules.
The SR4A Changes doc lists a Modular Electronics mod for 1,000¥ that eliminates the +2 limit. That upgrades the motherboard, power supply, etc. so that you can put the heavy-duty upgrades in a bare-bones system (e.g., a gutted MetaLink) for about 1,100¥ total. This gear is slated for inclusion in a future printing of Arsenal.
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As a GM I read the stuff and the OLNY parts to a commlink mentioned are the case the response signal system and firewall thats it.
DON'T assume that it needs all the crap we need today as seperate.
Now it's YOUR game you run it as you wish but untill an offical developer says you need more than the things listed for sale in the book I'll continue to build commlinks my way.
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Maybe I'm missing something, but reading over "The Wireless World" in SR4A, particularly the sections on upgrading and using the hardware skill, "Using Technical Skills to Build or Repair" on page 138 of SR4A, and going through Unwired, I can't find any RAW that supports build-from-scratch commlinks except for the very GM Fiat heavy "Using Technical Skills to Build or Repair" rules.
The SR4A Changes doc lists a Modular Electronics mod for 1,000¥ that eliminates the +2 limit. That upgrades the motherboard, power supply, etc. so that you can put the heavy-duty upgrades in a bare-bones system (e.g., a gutted MetaLink) for about 1,100¥ total. This gear is slated for inclusion in a future printing of Arsenal.
The Modular Electronics mod is a mod for vehicles as presented in the CRD (very first sentence).
I might (it's counter productive to the megas to make building your own commlink cheap or easy) let you buy a "bare-bones" (That's case + MoBo + PS + Buswork) with a pre-defined upgrade limit. Otherwise, you'll either need to harvest parts from an existing commlink, build your barebones system from scratch, or lift a bare-bones system during a run against an electronics manufacturing plant.
Yes and no. Its counterproductive to Corp A to make its system modular if they make the whole system. However, its VERY productive to corp B to make compatible knockoff hardware that works with corp A. This was IBM's thinking once upon a time when they figured they'd license their architecture rather than worry about building every last peripheral themselves. The model worked so well that Apple eventually broke down and switched to the same modular (sort of) setup. Most people still don't scratch build a system because its a bit intimidating until you do it once.
On the other hand, you have iPhone. Its a black box. You can't swap parts. You can't use it for anything Apple doesn't want you to unless you hack it. You can't even write your own programs for it without an Apple desktop and uploading it to Mama Apple for approval and inclusion in their store. Its wildly successful because the technology is a notch ahead of the competition and the marketing is great.
Which one will win out in the portable market in the long run? Hard to say. It really comes down to whether the Shadowrun public wants a communication/entertainment device or a full featured computer. So is each commlink an individual design incompatible with the others or are they all IBM compatibles with different motherboards, hard drives etc?
My thoughts on this? IBM and Apple don't have the capacity to field armies. Also, I dunno how I'd rule on it. Probably on the side of whatever seemed more "fun" at the time. Or that the only "bare-bones" systems available were the ones made to work with the existing commlinks and tier their prices accordingly, but make it cheaper (or otherwise advantageous) to at least consider building in lieu of buying.
Also, yes, (at present, anyways), the technological limits imposed by small size prohibit significant modification of hand-held devices. Not to mention there is a strong pro-proprietary move afoot these days.
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@Chaemera: Oops, I missed the part where it's for vehicles.
@Casazil: Could you please cite the rule that allows you to build commlinks from scratch? It's not on SR4A p. 222, because that only has rules for upgrading devices. And you can't "upgrade" a case into a commlink. (And where are you getting the case prices from anyway? If you're basing it on the Meta Link, then you should be subject to the limitations of upgrading a Meta Link.)
By the way, I mentioned the other computer parts only for the sake of illustration, to point out that a lot more goes into electronics than just a processor and a case.
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I'm gearing up to run a campaign here at the start of January and I'm trying to head off player questions before they ask them (and thank you all for the input as Fizzygoo mutters something about a recent paper about online forums and that argument and debate help to ferment a tribal cohesion :) ).
I hadn't seen the SR4A, pg. 222 about the +2 limit to upgrades.
I'm trying to figure out the best commlink a character can start with through Character Generation, pre-play (I'm also limiting the players to SR4A as most have never played 4th edition and about half have never played SR any edition). I cringe at the "well, my character spent a year to build an x/x/x/x rating commlink before gameplay" statement but want to provide the opportunity for that as it adds to character background, "this is my lucky deck, I built this deck after my wife left me and when I finished it after a year, it's like a chick magnet, the women see my AR persona and can't help but send me a link to hook up."
The stock Commlink models and OSes have no availabilities listed and the highest rated model, the Fairlight Caliban, is a 4/5 and for OS, it's the Novatech Navi with 3/4. The Hardware Upgrade Costs Table (SR4A, pg 222) gives rating 5 (Response and Signal) as availability 12. For the coding of the System/Firewall, SR4A pg. 232 explicitly lists no availability for the program ratings.
So with the Caliban being available at character creation, and the highest hardware upgrades available being 5, looks like Chaemera (quoted below) is correct (and since I'm not using Runner's Companion, I don't have to worry about the Restricted Gear quality).
So my fear now, well, more like mild concern, is when a player says "but I purchased a commlink Facility 'tool' (Availability 12, 100,000¥, SR4A p. 332) and built my Response, Signal, and 'case' (motherboard, buses, etc.) so I can make a x rated commlink." The base reply would be...well, fine, double the prices for hardware upgrades and because the Facility is Availability 12, then the highest/best you can make is rating 5 (upgradeable to 7 later on once game starts). But again, I weep at nothing RAW listed...well, not weep, but rather slightly shrug my viscous shoulders. (Seconding Bradd's comment about nothing listing build-from-scratch...at least that I could find, heh).
As far as the cost of a case, I agree with the idea that the case is the 2070 equivalent of the motherboard, buses, etc. (else why is there a +2 upgrade cap to hardware?) I would adhoc rule that a case costs 1/4 * (stock model cost - the hardware upgrade costs for that model) and I'd average (round up) the stock model's stats for what it's base stats would be.
For example, the Caliban is 4/5, so that averages (round up) to 5. So the cost of a case that can hold rating 5 hardware is 1/4 * (8,000¥ - 3,000¥) = 1/4 * (5,000¥) = 1250¥. To see how the rest of the models work out...
Well, that didn't work out...as all stock models with an average (round up) rating of 3 or less ends up being a negative cost; Sony Emperor 2/3 700¥, avg rating 3, upgrade cost for 2/3 = 900¥ so 1/4 * (700¥ - 900¥) = -50¥. And there's a ~400¥ spread between the lowest and highest avg-rating-4 models.
So then to keep it simple, case costs 20% of the stock model and still use the average (round up) rating of the stock model for it's before-upgrade max rating and the range between highest and lowest just represents the "coolness" factor between different cases.
So, to build from scratch...
* Commlink Facility: 100,000¥
* Case (Caliban based * 20%): 1,600¥
* Response 5 (x2 upgrade cost): 8,000¥
* Signal 5 (x2 upgrade cost): 2,000¥
* "Generic" System rating 5 for 2,500¥
* "Generic" Firewall rating 5 for 2,500¥
Total: 116,600¥
Of course a player could substitute the Facility for a Contact, probably 4-Connection, 3-Loyalty minimum (which would save the character 13 BP as 100K¥ is 20 BP).
...perhaps
I don't think so, for the following reasons:
* The prices listed on page 232 are for buying from scratch.
* Upgrades are limited to +2 for hardware (SR4A, pg. 222), you can't upgrade the Meta Link to 5/5.
Given the scaling of the prices, I'm willing to believe the upgrade prices listed on page 222 are total (ie, going from 3 -> 5 and 4 -> 5 costs the same)
Therefore, might I suggest this instead:
* Novatech Airwave (3/3) for 1250
* Response Upgrade (5) for 4000
* Signal Upgrade (5) for 1000
* "Generic" System rating 5 for 2500
* "Generic" Firewall rating 5 for 2500
Total cost: 11,250 ¥.
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Me likey!
Anything milspec is gonna make me drool, really.
Speaking as someone who reads mil-specs for a living, I half-wish they'd get the stuff right.
Ten times the cost of civilian, for half the effectiveness, at roughly the same durability.
Before someone talks about how awesome a "mil-spec" weapon is compared to "civilian", weapon systems are not "mil-spec", they are built of mil-spec components to a myriad of horribly convoluted drawings that would make you rip your hair out.
On the other hand, this is a game & is about fun, not reality. Maybe with corporate armies, "mil-spec" finally means something other than needlessly expensive & out-dated.
@Casazil: Could you please cite the rule that allows you to build commlinks from scratch? It's not on SR4A p. 222, because that only has rules for upgrading devices. And you can't "upgrade" a case into a commlink. (And where are you getting the case prices from anyway? If you're basing it on the Meta Link, then you should be subject to the limitations of upgrading a Meta Link.)
I, too, would be interested in seeing the RAW for the empty case you can install commlink modules into to create a home-brew commlink.
I see an armored case that upgrades your existing commlink like modern phone shells, but bullet resistant, in Unwired.
The Hardware skill description of SR4A (pg. 227) explicitly limits Hardware to "build upgrade modules", "install upgrade modules" and "build sim modules").
I can't find anything new on the Arsenal gear tables.
Since I had never heard of the modular electronics upgrade until UV pointed it out, I checked out the CRD, to no avail.
I don't have all of the PDF only documents, so I suppose it might be in one of those.
This is a pet peeve of mine, if someone tells me I'm wrong by RAW, rather than they disagree on interpretation, I want to see where I'm wrong. That way, I know for the future.
*EDIT*
@Fizzygoo, glad the mob here (myself included) could help. Even if we fight & argue & make your brain beg for the sweet release of death.
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@Chaemera: By the dark gods! I'm attempting to crawl out of a near decade long streak of D&D and running back to Shadowrun...you guys (gender neutral "guys") are awesome. I love to argue (where argue is defined as debate ideas, thoughts, opinions, and feelings for the refinement of those ideas, thoughts, opinions, and feelings) and the SR forums I'm finding to be a sea of rationality and respectability, especially when compared to other game-related forums.
As for the RAW about creating a commlink (I so just want to say "deck") from scratch I was assuming I was just missing it because I don't have Unwired yet...but this is seeming to be not the case. :(
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@Chaemera: By the dark gods! I'm attempting to crawl out of a near decade long streak of D&D and running back to Shadowrun...you guys (gender neutral "guys") are awesome. I love to argue (where argue is defined as debate ideas, thoughts, opinions, and feelings for the refinement of those ideas, thoughts, opinions, and feelings) and the SR forums I'm finding to be a sea of rationality and respectability, especially when compared to other game-related forums.
I hear ya, I'm currently planning session 6 of my first ever Shadowrun game (regardless of edition). I started coming to this place looking for advice on rule interpretations and house rules / optional rules... and I haven't been able to drag myself back out!
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Part of it is managing player expectations. "Elite" hackers don't necessarily have universal 6's. 5's across the board is actually quite badass for someone just starting out. 6's represent the pinnacle of what corporations will be bringing to bear against the party, barring milspec stuff.
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I use the rough guideline that everyday stuff is Rating 3, restricted systems (research, law enforcement) are Rating 4, serious security (military, air travel, elite secret societies) is Rating 5, and financial infrastructure is Rating 6.
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If your allowed to use WAR and Runners companion, the best commlink you can get at chargen is 7/7 costing you 2 restricted gear qualities and 40 500 nuyen
Singularity Battle Buddy Basic 10k nuyen 5/5
Response 7 upgrade 24 k and 20F
Signal 5´7 upgrade 6,5k and 20F
But i can't for the live of me figure out what getting a system and firewall 7 for that would cost.
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If your allowed to use WAR and Runners companion, the best commlink you can get at chargen is 7/7 costing you 2 restricted gear qualities and 40 500 nuyen
Singularity Battle Buddy Basic 10k nuyen 5/5
Response 7 upgrade 24 k and 20F
Signal 5´7 upgrade 6,5k and 20F
But i can't for the live of me figure out what getting a system and firewall 7 for that would cost.
Again using War!, page 162:
Firewall Rating 7: 24.5k¥ at 28F
System Rating 7: 24.5k¥ at 28F
So to get all four up to 7, can't be done, since Restricted Gear is limited to Availability 20 (straight, R, or F, for anyone who might be confused about the Availability limits applicability to restricted and forbidden gear).
Going back to the Core book for the rating 6 gear (SR4A, pg. 232):
Firewall Rating 6: 3k¥ with infinite availability
System Rating 6: Same
So, our Elite Hacker to the Max™ needs 2 Restricted Gear (10 BP) and 46.5k¥ (10 BP, again) to create. At least he's still got 3.5k¥ from that 10 BP of gear to buy his other basic use programs.
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If ratings are your primary concern, there's always the option of playing an AI.
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Very true, though it's worth noting that even the Elite Hacker to the Max™ wouldn't see the light of day in Fizzygoo's game, he's limiting players to SR4A options only.
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Hehe, nope, no AI for these guys to play, must reign them in and let them see the world from a stock runner perspective first :)
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I never really looked at the AI rules before last night. Its an interesting balance. They can start out with +2 to two commlink stats and +3 to the other two (max) but only three intiative passes with no way to get more and none of the cool cyberware that a superhacker will end up with. So while you can get the 'link's stats up to 9 without going milspec, an AI is going to be slower and have a smaller hacking dice pool than a meat 'runner.
On the other hand, if a PC AI is doing something other than being the primary hacker AND is willing to let the party's hacker use his home node, its game on.
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Over time, AIs can also have Rating 12 programs. o_0
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Actually they can get up to Rating 14, since the System Rating could be up to 7.
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Assuming a commlink with all 6's:
An AI can raise the rating to 9 but pays Luxury Lifestyle to do it.
An AI can have an intrinsic program of rating 12 (6+6Optimized, max 2*AI rating)
Any hacker can program a rating 12 program (6+6)
Anyone with access to the AI's home node can program a rating 18 program (9+9)
Or to be really nasty, with a base rating 10 commlink:
An AI using it as a home node can raise its rating to 13
Maxing out its intrinsic programs at 14 (Limited by the AI's Rating*2, which can get to 7 with any Exceptional Attribute)
Or a hacker can write a rating 20 program
or if its a home node, either one can write a rating 26 program
However, when it comes time to write programs the AI is going to have a dice pool of 13 max plus any programming suites and/or environments. An advanced Hacker is going to have a dice pool closer to 22 and 5 IP per round instead of 3.
Edit: Unless the AI has the 10 point Piloting Origin, in which case it can program itself an equally hideous Profession Activesoft giving itself a dice pool of 7+program rating for a single skill (25 on the base 6 commlink above).
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One of the books has a list (Unwired I think) for makeing new parts YES it takes months to do EVEN years but then again your starting character is not a new born or even say mom/dad/ect ect bought/gave/made it for said new character.
as to case price it is an agreed on price as it is just the case it really can't cost that much. At most 250 nuyen.
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One of the books has a list (Unwired I think) for makeing new parts YES it takes months to do EVEN years but then again your starting character is not a new born or even say mom/dad/ect ect bought/gave/made it for said new character.
as to case price it is an agreed on price as it is just the case it really can't cost that much. At most 250 nuyen.
I've looked, in every book I have, and the only table I find is on page 228 of SR4A and it specifically lists Processor, Sim Module and Wireless Radio, with a caveat in the text that the processor and wireless radio are upgrade modules:
You can also use it to build your own hardware upgrades; use the Building Hardware Table...
Please, if you can't provide at least a page number and book, don't state that something is RAW. Acknowledge that you're relying on memory and be prepared to be challenged on the claim.
If you can't find a price for your case, and you can't show where it says that "upgrade response + upgrade signal + case = commlink", you don't have much ground to claim that this is the methodology for building a commlink from scratch.
The only method I have found is to use the rules presented on page 138, "Using Technical Skills to Build and Repair", along with the explanation of the Hardware skill on page 127. Those two sections are perfectly clear that you need to have (or develop) schematics for your desired product, which means that you need to have plans for a final-product commlink (Erika Elite, for example) and base components as determined by the GM.