Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Shadowrun Crossfire => Topic started by: AJCarrington on (12:13:41/06-15-14)

Title: Origins Feedback
Post by: AJCarrington on (12:13:41/06-15-14)
Any feedback from those able yo play at Origins?
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: The Tekwych on (23:09:02/06-15-14)
I'd like to hear some feedback as well. I have a set on order but may want extra.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Lord Cameron on (00:37:28/06-16-14)
LOTS of new obstacles in the full deck
Some really interesting & intriguing special effects too.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: AJCarrington on (07:16:47/06-16-14)
Anyone know of an "after action" report or review? Would really like to get some more understanding as to how the game plays.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Lord Cameron on (09:12:03/06-18-14)
Anyone know of an "after action" report or review? Would really like to get some more understanding as to how the game plays.

I could try to explain it a bit
You've seen the cards posted by Randall on his blog right?
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: PeterSmith on (10:06:42/06-18-14)
You've seen the cards posted by Randall on his blog right?

Yes, they get cross-posted here.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: AJCarrington on (18:51:30/06-18-14)
Yep...posted a couple of links myself. I guess, I'm hoping for a preview/review like Critical Hits and Grey Elephant Gaming did for the PFACG...great videos showing games in play. Both groups did a great job of explaining the mechanics and illustrating game play. May be too early for this (ie CGL may be already doing something on this end), but was hoping to get a better idea of how the game plays.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Timothy M. Patrick on (09:21:35/06-20-14)
I know some of you asked for this and here it is a video from Dice Tower on Cross Fire at Origins 2014 http://youtu.be/os3EedW6s5A
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: AJCarrington on (09:33:56/06-20-14)
Thanks...exactly the kind if thing I wax looking for.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Spectre on (09:37:55/06-20-14)
Stickers? I'm really torn about how much I like that. I'll buy a copy of Risk Legacy and put stickers all over that, tear up cards, write on the board, because I probably won't want to play that again. This I'm not so sure.

Are you planning on doing Character sheets similar to the way the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game did? That way we can still advance characters and not mess things up for future runs.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: PeterSmith on (10:00:07/06-20-14)
I haven't heard anything about sheets. I may kludge something together for myself if I think the stickers are going to be a problem for me.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Timothy M. Patrick on (10:08:36/06-20-14)
I asked Jason about this at Origins and he said he believed the first expansion would be more of the same sheets, and stickers all be it different art.  So you could use the expansion packs to play the game while keeping your original game in tact.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: AJCarrington on (12:40:50/06-20-14)
Stickers would be kind of cool if they were vinyl and removable...then you could easily reuse all game components for new characters. If they're "permanent", think I'll be looking for an alternative.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: AJCarrington on (10:49:07/06-22-14)
I know some of you asked for this and here it is a video from Dice Tower on Cross Fire at Origins 2014 http://youtu.be/os3EedW6s5A

Not sure if this is exactly news, but Jason indicates hat they expect to have significant numbers of the final game on hand for GenCon. Not sure if the means formal release, but would expect (hope ::) )it to be "in the wild" by end of August.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: PiXeL01 on (03:43:36/06-23-14)
I'm torn about the stickers too. While I'm sure it's meant to be a way to keep track of your character between games, it several reduces replayability. Hopefully they can easily be turned into tokens which would serve that purpose better.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Bull on (08:39:59/06-23-14)
Or just, you know, use paper and write down your upgrades.  *shrug*
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Spectre on (13:22:19/06-24-14)
Or just, you know, use paper and write down your upgrades.  *shrug*

As someone who is basically the face of a Catalyst, this is the sort of flippant response that constantly reminds me that Catalyst does not bother to care about making something good or great, but is satisfied being mediocre or sub-par compared to other developers.

How about, when I ask you to consider making a set of very simple free pdfs that I can print out because I anticipate wanting to play your game multiple times, you say: "Not a bad idea. Let me run it up the ladder."

I don't give a damn if you actually run that up the ladder or not, just don't post this: Or just, you know, use paper and write down your upgrades.  *shrug*

Did you give everyone the bird while you were typing that out too?
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Bull on (15:08:28/06-24-14)
Not trying to be flippant.  I just found the entire discussion to be a non-issue, honestly.  But that may be because I'm an old gamer, and come from a time before home computers and printers or even easy to access copy machines were a thing.  I used to hand-write out entire D&D and MSH and TMNT/Heroes Unlimited character sheets every time I made a new character.  So the idea of just jotting a few notes down because I don't want to use up the stickers just seems like an obvious, no-brainer, and simple choice.

It's been said that the base set will be coming with a bunch of each sticker, so that you won't run out.  It's also been said that there's a character packet coming out that will have a whole bunch more character sheets, and a whole bunch more stickers. 

Those are the options available.  Some folks don't like like that, so I was giving what I thought was am honest, simple answer.

I'm not involved with Crossfire in any way, except as someone who is very interested in the game.  It's entirely possible that CGL plans to release blank character cards that you can print out, I don't know.  You'll still have to write your upgrades down on these though, if they do.  So my comment stands.

I apologize if you took offense at my post.  Wasn't intended that way.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Spectre on (16:03:25/06-24-14)
I apologize if you took offense at my post.  Wasn't intended that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology
Gee, thanks.

But that may be because I'm an old gamer, and come from a time before home computers and printers or even easy to access copy machines were a thing.  I used to hand-write out entire D&D and MSH and TMNT/Heroes Unlimited character sheets every time I made a new character.  So the idea of just jotting a few notes down because I don't want to use up the stickers just seems like an obvious, no-brainer, and simple choice.

You justify your position by trying to 'out-gamer' me. Your job is supposed to make me want to buy your products, instead, you're the guy behind the counter at the FLGS criticizing my purchases and my play-style. This sort of behavior permeates a lot of the Shadowrun community unfortunately. This isn't the old days. Step up your game and go out of your way to make it better, not drag it down because 'that's how I did it in my day!'

It's entirely possible that CGL plans to release blank character cards that you can print out, I don't know.  You'll still have to write your upgrades down on these though, if they do.  So my comment stands.

The argument is that I don't want to use the stickers or the character sheets in the main box or the expansion, 1, because I am a collector of games, and games I like I want to keep in functional order; 2, it causes problems for future players of that character; and 3, I would love to just print out a character sheet for the sole purpose of writing my upgrades on them so that they can be aesthetically appealing to people at my game table, as well as disposable at the drop of the hat. So no, your comment does not stand.

I've attached a PACG character sheet as an example. So I ask, would you rather see something like that on the table, or a hand written sheet of lined paper with scratch on it?

Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: PeterSmith on (16:24:26/06-24-14)
I apologize if you took offense at my post.  Wasn't intended that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology
Gee, thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egocentrism
See, I can play the Wiki game too!

Your job is supposed to make me want to buy your products...

No, Bull's job is to run the Missions program.

The argument is that I don't want to use the stickers or the character sheets in the main box or the expansion, 1, because I am a collector of games...for the sole purpose of writing my upgrades on them so that they can be aesthetically appealing to people at my game table...

Wait, which is it? Are you a collector of games, or are you a player of games?

I've attached a PACG character sheet as an example. So I ask, would you rather see something like that on the table, or a hand written sheet of lined paper with scratch on it?

I want to see people playing my games and having a good time doing so. If they can have fun out-of-the-box, they're having fun. If they're using scratchpads, great! If they kitbashed something together that looks nicer, more power to them. Because at the end of the day, as long as everybody is having fun, does it really matter how they are going about it?
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Spectre on (17:25:47/06-24-14)
I apologize if you took offense at my post.  Wasn't intended that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology
Gee, thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egocentrism
See, I can play the Wiki game too!

Your job is supposed to make me want to buy your products...

No, Bull's job is to run the Missions program.

The argument is that I don't want to use the stickers or the character sheets in the main box or the expansion, 1, because I am a collector of games...for the sole purpose of writing my upgrades on them so that they can be aesthetically appealing to people at my game table...

Wait, which is it? Are you a collector of games, or are you a player of games?

I've attached a PACG character sheet as an example. So I ask, would you rather see something like that on the table, or a hand written sheet of lined paper with scratch on it?

I want to see people playing my games and having a good time doing so. If they can have fun out-of-the-box, they're having fun. If they're using scratchpads, great! If they kitbashed something together that looks nicer, more power to them. Because at the end of the day, as long as everybody is having fun, does it really matter how they are going about it?

Thanks for your opinion, Catalyst sycophant. I'll take it to heart, as what you've posted is clearly relevant to my suggestion that Catalyst be better than average. I desperately want to see Shadowrun be better. Do you?
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Namikaze on (22:24:19/06-24-14)
I've attached a PACG character sheet as an example. So I ask, would you rather see something like that on the table, or a hand written sheet of lined paper with scratch on it?

Wow, the character sheet is really small.  If that's what I have instead of hand-written notes, I'll take the notes instead.  :P
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: PiXeL01 on (07:04:55/06-25-14)
I didn't take offense  to Bull's comment and it actually reminded me of "the old days" of Hero Quest and what not.
I had thought of writing it down, but assumed there might be too many details to keep track off. So maybe a check list instead? Ideas ideas...

I also STILL write all my characters down on a sheet, even if I generate them through a program so I guess I'm old too
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Emperors Grace on (08:51:12/06-25-14)
Eh, i don't see the issue either.

After hearing stickers, my first thought was to stck them to chipboard and make tokens out of them.

Cost is a few cents and a few minutes.

Bull's post doesn't change my plans but it does bring back some memories....
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: FastJack on (09:54:11/06-25-14)
Please keep your language polite and constructive. There is no need for insults or inflammatory language in your posts
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Spectre on (13:11:02/06-25-14)
Please keep your language polite and constructive. There is no need for insults or inflammatory language in your posts

And hence the problem. Imagine if you will for a moment that I wasn't someone who picked up Shadowrun 1st edition in 7th grade and fell in love with it and have supported it for more than 1/2 of my life, instead imagine I was someone who has never heard of Shadowrun, but saw the dice tower Origins review of Crossfire and thought that it looked really interesting. So I wander on over to the forums and register, so that I can express my feeling about how I don't think stickers are the best choice. Only to have a flippant dismissal from an employee of the company, followed up by a condescending apology which assumes that I cannot make an: obvious, no-brainer, (and) simple choice.

Do I buy your product?

Do I even stop to look at your booth at Gen-Con?

Do you understand why that's even a problem?

I'm trying to tell you to stop doing things that make it seem like Catalyst's vision of Shadowrun is an invite only party for old-timers in the inner circle, and you reward me with a 'warning'. All that does is make me NOT want to participate in your little sandbox.

I don't use a FLGS store to game at, so I feel no obligation to purchase from them. So I generally am shopping from online retailers at a discount. But it's always been my policy, for years now, at GenCon, to blow lots of money spending full retail on products at the convention to support the publishers I think are putting out good products. Because I want to see them succeed, and I love playing their games. Publishers love getting full retail profit at conventions as opposed to the vastly smaller margins they get at distribution, so it's a win win, I get games, they get max profit.

And even through all the Loren Coleman embezzlement fiasco, questionable decision-making, and extremely sub-par customer service from IMR, I've made it a point to financially support Catalyst through the purchase of their entire range of Shadowrun 4th and 5th products (Minus the spec. ed runners black book).

I fully expect no one here to care, and maybe I'll get a kthxbai, or a 'can i have your stuff' because this is the internet, but the fact that I just removed Crossfire from my GenCon purchases list and pre-ordered it from coolstuff is a big deal to me, if not to you. If it wasn't for my love of the game, it wouldn't be ordered at all.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Namikaze on (13:31:05/06-25-14)
There's no "problem" in keeping language polite and constructive.  Being insulting and inflammatory creates an environment of hostility, where people feel uncomfortable sharing and participating.  That's not what this forum is about.

Only to have a flippant dismissal from an employee of the company, followed up by a condescending apology which assumes that I cannot make an: obvious, no-brainer, (and) simple choice.

You realize that Bull apologized, right?  And then you threw it right back in his face.  No one else here has expressed such disdain and disrespect.

I'm trying to tell you to stop doing things that make it seem like Catalyst's vision of Shadowrun is an invite only party for old-timers in the inner circle, and you reward me with a 'warning'. All that does is make me NOT want to participate in your little sandbox.

You were insulting and rude.  You weren't constructive in the slightest, and when Bull apologized you threw it back in his face.  I think the warning is the least of what should happen, personally.  If you want to participate in this "little sandbox" (that's condescending as hell, by the way) then you agree to abide by the terms and conditions of the forum.  Violating those terms results in warnings first, which means that FastJack did exactly what we expect him to do.  If he wasn't here to defend the forums, we'd easily turn into this dark corner of the internet that you are worried about:

I fully expect no one here to care, and maybe I'll get a kthxbai, or a 'can i have your stuff' because this is the internet

If you want to keep this part of the internet from becoming like the parts you're describing, keep things polite and civil.

Final point: FastJack never specified you.  There were other posts that were non-constructive and inflammatory.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Spectre on (14:05:44/06-25-14)
There's no "problem" in keeping language polite and constructive.  Being insulting and inflammatory creates an environment of hostility, where people feel uncomfortable sharing and participating.  That's not what this forum is about.

Only to have a flippant dismissal from an employee of the company, followed up by a condescending apology which assumes that I cannot make an: obvious, no-brainer, (and) simple choice.

You realize that Bull apologized, right?  And then you threw it right back in his face.  No one else here has expressed such disdain and disrespect.

I'm trying to tell you to stop doing things that make it seem like Catalyst's vision of Shadowrun is an invite only party for old-timers in the inner circle, and you reward me with a 'warning'. All that does is make me NOT want to participate in your little sandbox.

You were insulting and rude.  You weren't constructive in the slightest, and when Bull apologized you threw it back in his face.  I think the warning is the least of what should happen, personally.  If you want to participate in this "little sandbox" (that's condescending as hell, by the way) then you agree to abide by the terms and conditions of the forum.  Violating those terms results in warnings first, which means that FastJack did exactly what we expect him to do.  If he wasn't here to defend the forums, we'd easily turn into this dark corner of the internet that you are worried about:

I fully expect no one here to care, and maybe I'll get a kthxbai, or a 'can i have your stuff' because this is the internet

If you want to keep this part of the internet from becoming like the parts you're describing, keep things polite and civil.

Final point: FastJack never specified you.  There were other posts that were non-constructive and inflammatory.

First of all, thanks for continuing to make my point. You've really made me feel welcome here.

Second, Bull never apologized. He said he was sorry that I was offended by what he wrote. That is not an apology, it is Bull divorcing himself from blame and making it my inability to see his point.

How to apologize:

Step 1: Say "i'm sorry I offended you." Not: "I'm sorry you took offense to something I wrote."

Third, I wasn't constructive? This whole situation is happening right now because I made a constructive suggestion that Catalyst make free pdf character sheets for use with Crossfire.

Fourth, Fastjack did specify me, when he sent me the warning to my personal message box. If you aren't armed with all the facts, let's not jump to conclusions, shall we?

 Fifth, "we'd easily turn into this dark corner of the internet", That's exactly my point. People like yourself are responsible for making the community better, but few of you seem to realize it. This community at large just continues to make the Shadowrun more exclusive instead of more inclusive.

Sixth, "You were insulting and rude. " Because I don't cloak my words is faux civility, it doesn't make what Bull said in his first statement and 'apology' any less insulting or rude, in fact, when you add in the condescension, it makes it worse.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Namikaze on (14:40:00/06-25-14)
First of all, thanks for continuing to make my point. You've really made me feel welcome here.

I'll summarize the terms of the forum that you are currently using:

If you're not going to be a productive member of the forum community, you aren't welcome here.  If you're going to continue to spin everything anyone says into something ass-backward from how it was meant, then you're not welcome here.  If you're going to generally try to be an ass, then you are welcome to join Dumpshock.  Now I'm not saying that is what you are doing - my guess is that you are upset, and refusing to back down for some reason.

Conversely, if you're willing to be a productive member of the community, who takes things with a grain of salt and humor, and generally tries to understand the opposing view rather than getting offended at the drop of a hat, then you are very welcome here.

Second, Bull never apologized. He said he was sorry that I was offended by what he wrote. That is not an apology, it is Bull divorcing himself from blame and making it my inability to see his point.

It seems to me that you are looking at his apology too strictly, and perhaps with a tinge of entitlement.  Would you like Bull to take a picture of him with a shoe on his head to prove he's sorry?

Third, I wasn't constructive? This whole situation is happening right now because I made a constructive suggestion that Catalyst make free pdf character sheets for use with Crossfire.

You weren't constructive when you decided to derail this whole thing into a personal issue for yourself.

Fourth, Fastjack did specify me, when he sent me the warning to my personal message box. If you aren't armed with all the facts, let's not jump to conclusions, shall we?

And you know for certain that he didn't send a warning to other people's mail boxes?  Because I've been warned several times during my time here - and I've only once made the assumption he didn't also message the other people involved.  He corrected me of my assumption.  So please don't make the assumption that you're the only person that got a warning, because you're probably wrong.

Fifth, "we'd easily turn into this dark corner of the internet", That's exactly my point. People like yourself are responsible for making the community better, but few of you seem to realize it. This community at large just continues to make the Shadowrun more exclusive instead of more inclusive.

And you have the opportunity to also be a productive member of this forum, keeping it from turning into DumpShock.  I would very much like that to happen, as I'm sure many of us would.  But to do that, you need to obey the terms of use of the forum, stop derailing threads, and take personal issues to personal messages.  Which, if you have anything else to say to me on the matter, would be the ideal way to handle it.

Sixth, "You were insulting and rude. " Because I don't cloak my words is faux civility, it doesn't make what Bull said in his first statement and 'apology' any less insulting or rude, in fact, when you add in the condescension, it makes it worse.

I cannot express how much I disagree with this sentence.  Bull has a history of tongue-in-cheek messages, and he's a serious contributor to the Shadowrun community in ways that neither of us can begin to comprehend.  A little respect should be given to the old fart.  :P  With that said, if you refuse to take someone's apology, even if it's not a genuine apology, then that's up to you.  Personally, I think what he said wasn't intended to be insulting, which is why he said he's sorry you took it that way.  I would have said the exact same thing, probably.  I wouldn't have apologized for what I said - I would simply let you know that I wish you hadn't taken it as an insult.

Anyway, we have derailed this thread sufficiently - let's get back on-topic and carry this issue to personal messages.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Spectre on (15:36:59/06-25-14)
Your complete refusal to acknowledge that any point I made has a valid basis is indication enough that you have no interest in actually conversing with me. You're just trying to wordplay my posts, and based on this last reply of yours you obviously didn't actually read my posts and try to understand them. You did take the time to condescend to me through the entire post though. So thanks for that, I guess.

Oh, I see you played your get out of jail free card by by pretending to be above this conversation. If you were above it you never would have interjected in the first place. You and I both know that this isn't going to be continued in any PM. Feel free to post that you disagree though and how willing you really are to hash it out in the dark back alleys of the PM.

I'm not going to apologize for trying to hold a Catalyst employee to a higher standard than you. Bull is a big boy and can take criticism. Hell, I'm going to hope he actually learned something from this.

Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Namikaze on (15:40:20/06-25-14)
Well Spectre, you've earned a block on my book.  Not that you'll give a crap, since you don't seem to care about this community in the slightest.  But there it is.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Lord Cameron on (17:16:56/06-25-14)

Do you understand why that's even a problem?

I'm trying to tell you to stop doing things that make it seem like Catalyst's vision of Shadowrun is an invite only party for old-timers in the inner circle, and you reward me with a 'warning'. All that does is make me NOT want to participate in your little sandbox.

The warning was for lack of posting civility, not for your feedback of Crossfire.
This thread seems to be derailing fast, I hope it doesn't end up locked.  ???

Stickers? I'm really torn about how much I like that. I'll buy a copy of Risk Legacy and put stickers all over that, tear up cards, write on the board, because I probably won't want to play that again. This I'm not so sure.

Are you planning on doing Character sheets similar to the way the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game did? That way we can still advance characters and not mess things up for future runs.

I'd agree, I'm be concerned about sticking & peeling things off of (previously) pristine cards too.
I wonder if it would be possible to magnetize them in some way?
I'd prefer something that would prevent tokens from spilling/moving.  :-\
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Namikaze on (17:26:15/06-25-14)
I'd like to see a material that is slip-resistant and tear-resistant.  Even if it's not part of the core set, I'll probably put something on my tokens.  The anti-slip material used for dishware and cabinets is actually pretty awesome, but thick.  Does anyone know of something similar that would be thinner?

EDIT: I found this product (http://www.amazon.com/Grip-Clear-anti-slip-bathtub-coating/), which should be sufficient.  I'm predicting just taking a sheet of tokens, boards, or something to apply the stickers to, then applying this to the back side.  Laminate can cover the top if necessary.  At $10 for a bottle, it's hard to imagine finding something too much better.  According to the manufacturer, this one bottle will cover over 6 square feet of material.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: AJCarrington on (08:58:32/06-26-14)
@Namikaze: could you repost that link?

I was think of some sort of vinyl sheet you could print on and then cut out...similar to the vinyl decals you can put on your car. Assuming that the character cards have a high gloss, would think they would be easily removable.

Of course, as was suggested earlier, a downloadable character card that we could print out and mark up would be a good option as well.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Namikaze on (10:00:06/06-26-14)
Sorry about that - here's some stuff I found in addition to the original product I tried to link:

Anti-slip bathtub coating (http://www.amazon.com/Grip-Clear-anti-slip-bathtub-coating/dp/B002XX18US/)
Anti-slip ruler grips (http://www.amazon.com/Grace-Company-TrueCut-Cutting-Transparent/dp/B003SBGW8C/)
Invisigrip ruler coating (http://www.amazon.com/Omnigrid-Invisible-Grip-Roll-12-1/dp/B00013MU3Q/)
Spray-on rubberized coating (http://www.amazon.com/Performix-11209-Multi-Purpose-Coating-Aerosol/dp/B000LNN11G/)
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: AJCarrington on (12:52:53/06-26-14)
Cool, thanks!
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Bull on (15:24:13/06-26-14)
Personally, I would have loved the character sheets and the stickers to have been done up like the old Colorforms toy.  I suspect that would have been cost prohibitive for a niche product like this. Multiple size cards, a box, instruction sheets, and the like already put a dent in production costs.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Namikaze on (16:19:22/06-26-14)
Personally, I would have loved the character sheets and the stickers to have been done up like the old Colorforms toy.  I suspect that would have been cost prohibitive for a niche product like this. Multiple size cards, a box, instruction sheets, and the like already put a dent in production costs.

That would actually have been fantastic!  I looked it up, and apparently the toy is still being manufactured.  I wonder if there's anything similar that's able to be printed on from a normal printer?

EDIT: Did a little Google-fu, and discovered that the toys are basically just sheets of vinyl.  These can be printed by most any print shop, including Kinko's and such, but smaller projects can be printed with your inkjet printer.  Here (http://www.amazon.com/Clear-Vinyl-Decal-Paper-Inkjet/dp/B004JZYXXW) is an example of clear vinyl for printing with an inkjet.  Comparable in price to most of the other items.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: AJCarrington on (19:53:25/06-26-14)
Nice find ;D

Led me to to this (http://www.amazon.com/Inkjet-Clear-Ultra-Cling-Sheets/dp/B008QZ3ZF8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403826625&sr=8-1&keywords=Inkjet+clear+static+cling); printable, sticky and removable  ;)

Now to get a graphic...lol
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Bull on (21:19:55/06-26-14)
Nice.  Laminate the character cards, and those should stick pretty well to them, I think.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: AJCarrington on (22:23:10/06-26-14)
I *think* that they should work on a high gloss cardboard finish (assuming thus is what the character cards are), but laminating them would definitely be a good call.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Namikaze on (00:32:31/06-27-14)
Excellent - I still wish that this had been done in advance, but I don't mind shelling out $10 to do it myself.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: pmavers on (01:40:17/06-30-14)
Nice.  Laminate the character cards, and those should stick pretty well to them, I think.

The runner character card-sheet-things actually *come* laminated. (The idea apparently being that you can write on them with a dry erase marker to keep a running tally of your karma.)

*looks at the copy he won in one of the Origins raffles and whistles innocently*
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Namikaze on (01:44:58/06-30-14)
*looks at the copy he won in one of the Origins raffles and whistles innocently*

JEALOUS!  Also, good info to know.  I wasn't sure about that.  :)
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Bull on (02:43:14/06-30-14)
The runner character card-sheet-things actually *come* laminated. (The idea apparently being that you can write on them with a dry erase marker to keep a running tally of your karma.)

*looks at the copy he won in one of the Origins raffles and whistles innocently*

I haven't had a good look at the final version myself yet.  Was too busy running demos of SR5 and Crossfire to, you know, go have fun with that.  (I did play a couple playtest games of Hostile Takeover though. ;))

So, you have a copy.  You must post a review now.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: AJCarrington on (09:23:11/06-30-14)
The runner character card-sheet-things actually *come* laminated. (The idea apparently being that you can write on them with a dry erase marker to keep a running tally of your karma.)

Interesting info - thanks. As others have suggested, a review would be awesome... ;D
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Lord Cameron on (17:43:51/06-30-14)
Nice.  Laminate the character cards, and those should stick pretty well to them, I think.

The runner character card-sheet-things actually *come* laminated. (The idea apparently being that you can write on them with a dry erase marker to keep a running tally of your karma.)

*looks at the copy he won in one of the Origins raffles and whistles innocently*

Nice acquisition!  ;)

Are there different "mission" cards in the full game?
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: pmavers on (23:51:20/07-02-14)
Nice.  Laminate the character cards, and those should stick pretty well to them, I think.

The runner character card-sheet-things actually *come* laminated. (The idea apparently being that you can write on them with a dry erase marker to keep a running tally of your karma.)

*looks at the copy he won in one of the Origins raffles and whistles innocently*

Nice acquisition!  ;)

Are there different "mission" cards in the full game?

There's three missions that come with it, which are really closer to different modes of play.

Crossfire is the basic one, where you have to clear a number of scenes to complete a run. Scenes are cleared when all objectives in play are defeated, and new objectives generally don't show up until a new scene.

Extraction is the escort-mission-survival mode run, where you have to protect a "Client" from being killed by the objectives. Instead of scenes, you have a chart where something special happens at the end of every round. (More objectives show up, crossfire cards get drawn, etc.) You generally have to hold out for 7-8 rounds without getting the client killed to win.

Dragon Fight is the oh god why not the face run away we made poor life choices mission, and is only recommended for characters that have earned at least 75+ karma worth of upgrades. It's basically a boss fight, where he'll be throwing obstacles at you every round, and also be flying around attacking players alongside those objectives. The dragon has four aspects, two on each side. He starts on the "Covert Dragon" side, which has a Hacking Aspect and a Skill Aspect. To clear them, your team has to do either eight points of a specific color of damage, or a buttload of colorless damage in one turn. You get rewarded for clearing a aspect, and once both are cleared he flips to his Enraged side, which involves spells and weapons. Once those are done, you win.

All three missions have extra options you can turn on to increase your karma payouts for completing the run, but make the run harder. (Example for the Extraction one is the EMT GIG! option, where the client starts at 1 HP instead of five, and you go through the market deck and pull out a Doc Wagon Contract card. It's available to purchase at any time, but doesn't count as being in the Black Market. You get a extra 3 karma if you successfully complete it.)
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Spectre on (12:21:17/07-03-14)

There's three missions that come with it, which are really closer to different modes of play.

Crossfire is the basic one, where you have to clear a number of scenes to complete a run. Scenes are cleared when all objectives in play are defeated, and new objectives generally don't show up until a new scene.

Extraction is the escort-mission-survival mode run, where you have to protect a "Client" from being killed by the objectives. Instead of scenes, you have a chart where something special happens at the end of every round. (More objectives show up, crossfire cards get drawn, etc.) You generally have to hold out for 7-8 rounds without getting the client killed to win.

Dragon Fight is the oh god why not the face run away we made poor life choices mission, and is only recommended for characters that have earned at least 75+ karma worth of upgrades. It's basically a boss fight, where he'll be throwing obstacles at you every round, and also be flying around attacking players alongside those objectives. The dragon has four aspects, two on each side. He starts on the "Covert Dragon" side, which has a Hacking Aspect and a Skill Aspect. To clear them, your team has to do either eight points of a specific color of damage, or a buttload of colorless damage in one turn. You get rewarded for clearing a aspect, and once both are cleared he flips to his Enraged side, which involves spells and weapons. Once those are done, you win.

All three missions have extra options you can turn on to increase your karma payouts for completing the run, but make the run harder. (Example for the Extraction one is the EMT GIG! option, where the client starts at 1 HP instead of five, and you go through the market deck and pull out a Doc Wagon Contract card. It's available to purchase at any time, but doesn't count as being in the Black Market. You get a extra 3 karma if you successfully complete it.)

That sounds awesome. All 3 of those are solid Shadowrun concepts, and there are so many great opportunities to expand this game in the future. Different missions could be added for wetwork, smuggling, datatheft, paranormal investigation. I'm really excited to see the direction this game is going to take.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: pmavers on (13:06:04/07-09-14)
Couple random thoughts after a two-player game the other day:

You should totally sleeve the Black Market/basic cards. The card stock's a little thin, and would probably help out a lot. The other decks you don't shuffle as much and so aren't really a priority.

Playing a Elf in a two-player game feels like asking for pain. The extra hand size and resources starting out help, but it's quite possible that you'll get two obstacles on you. Since you only have 4 max HP starting out, and most obstacles do 2 damage when they fire... In bigger games, there's a greater chance of someone picking up a Monofiliment Whip which lets them move objectives off you to themselves.

Speaking of which, being staggered suuuuuuuuuucks. You have to shuffle your hand and discard pile into your deck, and you skip your draw & buy phases. You only draw one card at the start of your turn, and if you ever take another point of damage while staggered you go critical and the run has to be aborted.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Lord Cameron on (19:22:37/07-10-14)
That sounds awesome. All 3 of those are solid Shadowrun concepts, and there are so many great opportunities to expand this game in the future. Different missions could be added for wetwork, smuggling, datatheft, paranormal investigation. I'm really excited to see the direction this game is going to take.

There some more gear/weapon cards but ALOT more obstacle cards. The full deck is 80 cards, but in a 3 round game you would only see about 15 of them. What would be neat is to see in the future is different missions with a different obstacle card deck. So if the mission profile is Chicago you'd see the Insect Spirits, Insect Shaman etc, while a Seattle mission would have some different obstacles.  ???


Couple random thoughts after a two-player game the other day:

Playing a Elf in a two-player game feels like asking for pain. The extra hand size and resources starting out help, but it's quite possible that you'll get two obstacles on you. Since you only have 4 max HP starting out, and most obstacles do 2 damage when they fire... In bigger games, there's a greater chance of someone picking up a Monofiliment Whip which lets them move objectives off you to themselves.


Pretty much no reason to play anything other than the Troll or Orc.  :-\
It would be nice to see some advantage for the Elf to offset the low hit points, the starting cards/nuyen don't make any difference beyond the first round, while the high HP for the Troll is a lasting benefit.  ???
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Spectre on (01:13:32/07-14-14)
A more in-depth Crossfire review from the Dice Tower:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbuXYD_mI1s&list=UUiwBbXQlljGjKtKhcdMliRA

Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Mara on (04:04:52/07-14-14)
Pmavers, what is the size of the character cards? Planechase size? Or standard card size?
I was just thinking that you could maybe sleeve them, and put the stickers that are supposed
to go onto them that way.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: AJCarrington on (15:55:15/07-14-14)
Thanks for the link Spectre...will be checking that out this evening. :D
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: Spectre on (10:17:22/07-16-14)
Developer Feedback from the BGG forums. These are slightly out of context, but they primarily will answer some lingering questions:

From Jay Schneider:

I'm the Design Producer for Shadowrun: Crossfire (Fire Opal Media is the design studio, Catalyst is our Publisher). To answer your questions:

1) There are 3 missions that ship with the base game but...
1a) You'll find that each mission has many variants and the variants can be combined
1b) They're balanced across the Karma levels
1c) There will be promotional missions in abundance occurring with the release of the game.
1d) Crossfire has the feel of a RPG with the mechanics of a Cooperative Deckbuilder. Missions = well Missions (or Modules in D&D). We expect (and will encourage) players to build their own.

2) Regarding Expansion plans, we haven't made any announcments yet. And announcements like that come from the Publisher, my counterparts and friends at Catalyst. Will it suffice to say the team has been and is still working?

-Jay

When Asked: Jay, could you clarify whether you can play this as two-players playing two characters? Or, if you have less than four, will players need to control more than one character? I've read conflicting reports on this. Thanks!

Different missions have differing number of players. IMHO in general 4 players is ideal, however we designed Escort to work extremely well with 1, 2, 3 or 4 players.

You could try to have a single player run more than one character. However, it would be hard. Really hard. Crossfire requires focus and running 2 cards would require an extremely experienced player. I'm sure we tried it with a designer playing 2 cards but it was the exception. Generally when down a person, we'd play Escort as it rocks with less than 4 players.

When asked: 1: How does the game handle differing Karma levels? Like a new player sitting in on a higher level group and playing a difficult mission?

Re characters with differing Karma Levels. You'll find each mission card has a scaling section. Here's an example - actual missions vary.

--------------------------
Karma Scaling: Each runner gains the following Karma award or penalty based on how much Karma they have.

Karma in Upgrades   Award or Penalty
010   Full Karma award
1130   1 Karma penalty
3150   2 Karma penalty
5175   3 Karma penalty
Each additional +25   Additional 1 Karma penalty
---------------------------------------

This means that if the Mission awards 5 Karma for completion if one player has 100 Karma, they'll only receive 1 Karma for completion. There new player friend with 0 Karama would receive a full 5 Karma.

We found this system allowed players of very diverse Karma levels to play together in differing experiences from Power Leveling a single character to letting a single player catch up to the team. I think you'll find the difficulty holds with the rewards.

From Sean McCarthy:

Hey! I'm one of the designers. I hope I can resolve the confusion about playing with 2-3 players.

You can play the game with fewer than four players, and each player still only controls one character.

For a 2-player game, for example, I might be a Human Decker while my partner is a Troll Mage. We'll each also be given one of the other two role cards (Face and Street Samurai), because there are cards like Grenade that say "the Street Samurai chooses...", and the like. Someone has to make that choice!

I think the game is at its best with four players, because that gives you the maximum amount of cooperation and the most coordination problems to solve. There are more obstacles in play at once, and more possibilities to consider. But I still like it just fine with fewer than four. We playtested a ton of games with 2-3 players.

The Extraction mission involves escorting an NPC to safety through floods of obstacles. Since it inherently features the extra body and the extra enemies, it's particularly well suited to 2-3 player games, and we even added solo rules for it.

I think everything will become clearer once the game and rulebook are available, so I'm hoping that's soon!



P.S. If you were seeking a greater challenge, you could certainly play games where you control more than one character (like you can in many cooperative games). But I wanted to clarify that there are rules for playing with the full range of 2-4 players, and they work pretty much like you'd expect.
Title: Re: Origins Feedback
Post by: pmavers on (14:43:13/07-17-14)
Pmavers, what is the size of the character cards? Planechase size? Or standard card size?
I was just thinking that you could maybe sleeve them, and put the stickers that are supposed
to go onto them that way.

The runner sheets?
7 inches by 5 inches.