Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: martinchaen on <04-15-14/1953:14>
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Posting my first ever SR5 magician character.
Loki is, as his namesake implies, a trickster. He's a smooth talker with a sense of humour, and he likes chatting up women (as evidenced by his starting list of contacts). He's not much use in a stand-up fight directly, but indirectly he can affect the minds of the enemy, magically throw darts with a healthy dose of narcojet in them, and cause all sorts of mischief with his illusionary powers.
He's much more at home when the booze is flowing as opposed to when the bullets are flying, and no matter who, where, or how, he somehow always manages to find an angle to catch someone's attention and squeeze some information out of them.
Character sheet created with the excellent Chummer for 5th Edition, by Adam. Find it here:
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=17200.0
CHARACTER SHEET
Street Name: Loki
Name: Ashann Valeri
Movement: 4/8
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Elf Male Age 21
Height 1.8m Weight 70kg
Composure: 13
Judge Intentions: 13
Lift/Carry: 5 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 9
Nuyen: 0
== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 2
REA: 3
STR: 2
CHA: 8
INT: 5
LOG: 4
WIL: 5
EDG: 4
MAG: 6
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Initiative: 8 + 1d6
Rigger Initiative: 8 + 1d6
Astral Initiative: 10 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative: 8 + 1d6
Matrix Cold Initiative: 5 +DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative: 5 +DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 11
== Limits ==
Physical: 4
Mental: 6
Social: 9
Ballistic Mask [+1] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Securetech PPP: Vitals Kit [-1] (Must be visible)
== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling : 0 Pool: 7
Arcana : 1 Pool: 5
Archery : 0 Pool: 1
Armorer : 0 Pool: 3
Assensing : 5 [Aura Reading] Pool: 10 (12)
Blades : 0 Pool: 1
Clubs : 0 Pool: 1
Computer : 0 Pool: 3
Con : 4 [Seduction] Pool: 14 (16)
Counterspelling : 6 Pool: 12
Cybercombat : 0 Pool: 3
Demolitions : 0 Pool: 3
Disguise : 0 Pool: 4
Diving : 0 Pool: 2
Escape Artist : 0 Pool: 1
Etiquette : 1 [Street] Pool: 9 (11)
First Aid : 0 Pool: 3
Forgery : 0 Pool: 1
Free-Fall : 0 Pool: 2
Gunnery : 0 Pool: 1
Gymnastics : 0 Pool: 1
Hacking : 0 Pool: 3
Heavy Weapons : 0 Pool: 1
Impersonation : 1 Pool: 9
Instruction : 0 Pool: 7
Intimidation : 0 Pool: 7
Leadership : 0 Pool: 7
Navigation : 0 Pool: 4
Negotiation : 2 [Bargaining] Pool: 10 (12)
Perception : 1 Pool: 6
Performance : 0 Pool: 7
Pilot Ground Craft : 0 Pool: 2
Pilot Watercraft : 0 Pool: 2
Running : 0 Pool: 1
Sneaking : 0 Pool: 1
Spellcasting : 6 [Manipulation] Pool: 12 (14)
Summoning : 1 [Spirits of Man] Pool: 7 (9)
Survival : 1 Pool: 6
Swimming : 0 Pool: 1
Throwing Weapons : 0 Pool: 1
Tracking : 0 Pool: 4
Unarmed Combat : 1 Pool: 3
== Knowledge Skills ==
English : N Pool: 0
Gangs : 1 Pool: 6
Japanese : 3 Pool: 8
News : 1 [Current Events] Pool: 6 (8)
Night Clubs : 1 Pool: 6
Sperethiel : 3 Pool: 8
Sprawl Life : 3 [Scavenging] Pool: 8 (10)
Syndicates : 1 [Yakuza] Pool: 6 (8)
Trivia : 1 [Nordic Mythology] Pool: 6 (8)
== Contacts ==
Alessia Thorne (Nightclub Owner) (2, 5)
Dawn (Fixer) (5, 2)
Hiroko Matsumoto (Yakuza Wakagashira) (5, 2)
Leaf-of-Willow (Street Shaman) (1, 2)
== Qualities ==
Astral Beacon
First Impression
Focused Concentration (Rating 1)
Incompetent (Firearms)
Low-Light Vision
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Raven)
Weak Immune System
== Spells ==
(Tradition: Black Magic, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (13))
Fling DV: F-2
Influence DV: F-1
Lightning Bolt DV: F-3
Magic Fingers DV: F-2
Mind Probe DV: F
Mindnet Extended DV: F+1
Mob Mind DV: F+1
Physical Barrier DV: F-1
Physical Mask DV: F-1
Trid Phantasm DV: F
== Lifestyles ==
Apartment 1 months
== Armor ==
Ballistic Mask 2
+Flare Compensation
+Vision Magnification
Clothing 0
Lined Coat 9
+Chemical Protection 2
+Insulation 2
+Nonconductivity 4
Securetech PPP: Vitals Kit 1
== Weapons ==
Shock Gloves
Pool: 3 Accuracy: 4 DV: 8S(e) AP: -5 RC: 1
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 3 Accuracy: 4 DV: 2S AP: - RC: 1
== Commlink ==
Meta Link (, , 0, )
== Gear ==
Ammo: Injection Darts (Throwing Weapons) x10
+Narcojet
Ammo: Injection Darts (Throwing Weapons) x10
+Rocuronium
Certified Credstick, Silver
Certified Credstick, Standard x2
Fake SIN (Alan Walker, UCAS) Rating 4
+Fake License (Mage License) Rating 4
+Fake License (Summoner License) Rating 4
+Fake License (Talismonger License) Rating 4
Psyche
Reagents, per dram x50
Respirator Rating 6
Summoning Focus (Bonded Foci) (Spirits of Man) Rating 1
Survival Kit
Trodes
== Description ==
An elf of Caucasian origin, Loki wears his black hair to his shoulderst. He dresses to fit in on the streets, with multiple pieces of clothing capable of concealing his features at short notice. His force of personality is apparent to anyone who meets him, though he has a knack for getting into trouble with the wrong people.
Loki knows little about his past, but over the years has learned to focus his will to shape the world around him. Motivated by a desire to make a better place for himself in an otherwise inhospitable world, he has begun his journey into the shadows as the first step on a path to the life he believe he deserves.
While untrained, Loki's raw talent is unquestionable; his ability to affect those around him is clear as day, though he is otherwise lacking in magical aptitude and knows little at all about magical theory. He will attempt to influence people around him to help him in any way they can, and if pressed has taken direct control of his enemies to subdue them. While not afraid to kill if he has to, he's realized that cold-blooded murder leaves far too many traces behind and as such will attempt to resolve matters peacefully if at all possible.
== Background ==
Ashann was born an irenis (classless) in the Elven nation of Tir Tairngire and knew little of his family. The only exceptions were a faint memory of a motherly face, and a pendant with a Sperethiel inscription that he later took as a name. His first real memories of childhood were of the cold, wet, and rough streets of Cara'Sir (Portland), and of being just yet another starving orphan in the crowds. As one of the many social outcasts in Cara'Sir, Ashann never received a SIN and thus no formal schooling, and as a result he was never screened for magical potential as is common in the Tir; chances are good that if he had undergone the customary trials he would have made it into one of the prestigious societies operating in the elven nation, as he began manifesting powerful magical abilities at a very early age.
Alas, with no one recognizing his talents for what they were, not even himself, coupled with having to fend for himself on the streets of a sprawling metroplex, Ashann developed a nearly instinctive use of magic; his natural charisma and force of personality paired with his magical abilities allowed him to impose his will on others, both subtly and otherwise. When the young bullies came to steal the food and clothes he had convinced a total stranger to give him, his emotions were so tangible that the bullies ended up fighting each other instead while he just walked away. When the older gangers tried to beat him up for trespassing on their turf, his wish for protection somehow made their blows strike invisible walls of energy instead of his body. As he matured, Ashann began to suspect that his good fortune was not merely luck; the voice that had whispered to him in the dark of night for years eventually confronted him in a dream world as an entity of many forms, appearing as a raven, a colorful jester, elven twins, and many others. Though he could not understand it at first, over the next few years Ashann came to realize the power of his gift, and he formed a bond with the mischievous being. With its guidance fueling his own powerful desire for change, Ashann initiated a series of heists cleverly concealed as colorful pranks; for several months he antagonized the criminal underworld with his tricks, starting with small-time gangs and working his way up the chain all the way to the Vory v Zakone operating in Cara’Sir.
And then, disaster struck. Ashann, now 21 years old and calling himself Loki after the Nordic mythical being that had so much in common with his mentor, had finally gone too far. A Vory hit squad cornered him during one of his “jobs”, and he found himself forced to unleash every ounce of magical ability in a desperate move that soon had his opponents realizing that they had vastly underestimated their target. Before they could draw their weapons, multiple shadowy figures dressed and looking just like Loki appeared out of nowhere and proceeded to taunt and ridicule the mobsters. In the ensuing chaos, members of the team found themselves cut off from each other by invisible walls, some even coming under fire by their own while others simply fled the scene in abject terror. Some of the men fought back but began going down to poisoned darts, and when only a single man remained standing Loki stepped out from behind cover and sent a crackling bolt of lightning that put him down for good. Surveying the scene, he knew that the Vory would never live this down, and he left Cara’Sir that very night.
Over the next few years, Loki spent some time travelling the Americas, hitching rides where he could and living rough when he had to. After a while, he met a nightclub owner named Alessia Thorne, and the two hit it off immediately. In her he found companionship he had not known existed; despite having been quite the skirt chaser, he was always wary and never let anyone get close. For the first time in his life, he had found someone he could call friend. Over a period of several months Alessia introduced Loki to some of her contacts, including a prominent fixer named going by the name Dawn, and before long he was working the shadows.
== Concept ==
Young, untrained magician from Tir Tairngire; orphan, grew up on the streets, strong bias towards manipulation magic to reflect "surival" or instictive use of magic.
CONTACT DETAILS, ALESSIA THORNE
DESCRIPTION:
Alessia Thorne, a Caucasian Elf woman of 30, wears her long blonde hair braided more often than not, and prefers business casual attire over the skimpy club garb favoured by club goers. Strikingly beautiful, highly intelligent, and surprisingly business savvy for someone of her relative young age, she wields her femininity like a finely crafted blade in order to accomplish her goals. Her tenacity has likely secured her a place on the club scene for years to come.
BACKGOUND:
Through clever social maneuvering and careful investment of family assets, Alessia managed to take ownership of Klub Haze when she was just 28 years old, and in a surprise move decided to take on the manager position rather than turn the club into a pure investment. Though she's kept the EDM club independent so far by booking somewhat unknown acts from all over the Americas, the Yakuza who supply "party favours" to the club are starting to show an increased interest in it and it's proprietor
RELATIONSHIP:
Loki encountered Alessia at Klub Haze during the opening night of the re-branded club. His good looks and silver tongue proved sufficient in convincing her to let him buy her a drink, and they quickly bonded over their shared interest in music. She is the closest thing Loki has to a real friend, as she's helped him attain a fake SIN and an apartment near the club. While the two are not romantically involved, they are both intrigued by the other
CONTACT DETAILS, DAWN
DESCRIPTION:
Dawn, real name unknown, is a human woman in her mid-40s. Perhaps in part due to her fiery red hair contrasting her rather demure stature, Dawn's social skills are formidable both in the flesh and on the Matrix, and she seems to have a knack for reading people regardless of the circumstance. Though soft spoken and somewhat reserved, her eyes burn with a ferocity that cannot be overlooked
BACKGOUND:
Dawn is a somewhat enigmatic fixer who is known for arranging meetings in all manner of locations, ranging from buildings on the verge of destruction to high-society banquets. Her origins are shrouded in mystery, but for someone like her to have made the kind of place for herself that she has is certain to have required backing from some serious people or organizations indeed
RELATIONSHIP:
Alessia was the one who introduced Loki to Dawn; through conversations with Loki the nightclub owner knew of his awakened nature, and through her connections to the underworld she also knew that the fixer was always on the lookout for new magical talent in need of work. After a short introductory meeting where Loki barely had a chance to say anything at all, Dawn offered several small jobs to him over the course of a few months
CONTACT DETAILS, HIROKO MATSUMOTO
DESCRIPTION:
Hiroko Matsumoto, a Japanese Elf woman in her late 70s, is very much the model of Japanese style and looks. She wears her hair in a bun, wears traditional makeup, and dresses in flowing robes. Despite her almost doll-like appearance, however, her mind is razor-sharp and her cunning no less so; she will stop at nothing to achieve her goals, and is not afraid to do what needs to be done
BACKGOUND:
As the most successful wakagashira to the Watada-rengo in decades, Hiroko is almost entirely responsible for the headway the syndicate has made in the past few years. Between her accumulated knowledge of politics and her education and experience in the fields of business and economy, the rengo has expanded operations exponentially every year
RELATIONSHIP:
Hiroko was intrigued by Loki when he happened to accompany Alessia to a business meeting between the Yakuza wakagashira and the club owner. Between his ability to pick up on Hiroko's intentions, his witty, easy-going charm, and Alessia's business acumen, Hiroko decided to expand operations into the club scene, thus securing an increasing demand for drugs and BTLs flowing from Asia. The two have rarely spoken since, though the occasional "PR" task has been assigned to Loki by the Yakuza adviser
CONTACT DETAILS, LEAF-OF-WILLOW
DESCRIPTION:
Leaf-of-Willow is an Amerind Elf woman of apparently old age, something of an unusual circumstance even for the supposedly immortals of her home country of Tir Tairngire. She wears heavy robes to conceal her features, and some say she talks to herself quite frequently
BACKGOUND:
A once moderately famous scholar at the Salem university of magical theory, Leaf-of-Willow is rumoured to have encountered something horrible during one of her research into the metaplanes. Some say she was scarred by her experiences, others still say that she was permanently damaged; what is known for sure is that she used to be one of the foremost experts on magical artifacts, and even if she is not all there most of the time her knowledge is still encyclopedic
RELATIONSHIP:
Once Loki fully realized that his abilities were actually more than just wishful thinking, he sought out Leaf-of-Willow to learn more about his unique talents. Though it's been difficult even for him to talk to the her, he tries to remain civil to her in the hopes that she'll snap out of it and perhaps reveal something important. Worst case, at least he's gotten a good deal or two out of her
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Your need Orgasm spell. To convert from 4th to 5th, just use Agony spell, and replace intense pain with intense pleasure.
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very cool! Dig the norse/elf background :)
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Bushw4cker
Hehe, not a bad idea. I'll get there eventually.
Cowdragon
Thanks! I like the idea of a mage who can do more than throw stunballs, so decided to go for a concept resembling one of my favourite characters from mythology; Loki himself.
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The casting is Tom Hiddleston, I'm guessing . . . ;)
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Tom Hiddleston? I originally had the character from Watch Dogs in mind when creating this character, hence his outfit.
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I wanna play that game when it comes out. Kinda funny though that you pick a hacker protagonist to be the character portrait for a guy with the least tech-focused archetype in the game (save maybe adept monks).
Glad to see Loki posted here 'cause I hope you get more chances to use him. O:
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Hehe, I just like the way the character concept looks; I don't care that he's a hacker :)
And thanks! I hope so too; it's been interesting to play a mage so far, definitely opens up new possibilities.
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"Alessia Thorne (C1/L5), Elf female, Nightclub Owner"
What kinda shitty shitty shitty nightclub you gotta own to have a 1 connections?
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Poindexter
She's just gotten into the Nightclub business, having won it in a rather hostile takeover ;)
She's connected to the Yakuza though, which is represented by the C5\L1 Yakuza Wakagashira contact.
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hostile takeovers aint the sort of thing you can do on your own.
You need connections for that kinda thing.
And if she's got yakuza connects, THAT is more than 1.
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I respectfully disagree.
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Uh, traditional hostile takeovers aren't really something you can do with a nightclub, unless it is somehow publicly traded or has a stock structure that could be leveraged. I am assuming martinchaen is referring to something a little different.
How could you do something similar? Breaking Bad had a good example of this: basically conning someone into believing their business was facing an insurmountable regulatory challenge. Given the character's background, she could have figured out the Club was underwater, cooking the books, etc and threatened them directly or had a "tax collector" schedule an audit. Money can go a long way in making up for lack of a social network. Personally, I would probably but her at a 2/4 though.
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In my opinion and game-play, contact ratings are those that the contact has for you. Because of the structure of Missions, this has to be generalized for everyone, but in a standard game, this should be flexible. A fixer might have a Connections 6, but if he isn't going to go out of his way to shake all the trees for ya, then it's only effectively a 1. Maybe he doesn't like you - or maybe he likes you just fine (Loyalty 5) but isn't willing to front you to other people (Connections 1).
I have, in the past, had several PCs have the same fixer as a contact, each with their own loyalty/connection ratings. Worked very well for RP purposes.
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Thanks, Wyrm, I was trying to come up with a way of saying what you did, but you put my thoughts into exactly what I was trying to say :)
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In my opinion and game-play, contact ratings are those that the contact has for you. Because of the structure of Missions, this has to be generalized for everyone, but in a standard game, this should be flexible. A fixer might have a Connections 6, but if he isn't going to go out of his way to shake all the trees for ya, then it's only effectively a 1. Maybe he doesn't like you - or maybe he likes you just fine (Loyalty 5) but isn't willing to front you to other people (Connections 1).
I have, in the past, had several PCs have the same fixer as a contact, each with their own loyalty/connection ratings. Worked very well for RP purposes.
So you are saying it would be okay I have Miles Lanier or Lofwyr was a corporate contact at rating C1/L10?
I agree with the others, the contact ratings are pretty off, especially the club owner who should be at least connection 4. Nightclub waiter or cook I can see at 1. Nightclub bouncer or bartender 2, nightclub DJ 3, owner a least 4
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Your opinion has been noted, Sincereagape.
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They are very deep and intriguing contacts.
It is just that the connection rating does not match up with the descriptions. For example the night club owner has been in the business for over 6 years and has a weapon foci, but only connection of 1.
The shaman talismonger is one of the premiere experts in magical artifacts from Portland but only a connection of 1.
The street doc is a noble from the Tir but only connection of 1.
5th edition has placed an emphasis on the description and connection/loyalty ratings for contacts much more then 4th edition did. Trust me, I ran into the same problem when I was creating my character, the descriptions or images in my head of the contacts that I wanted were to low for the amount of free points I received for contacts. It is frustrating a bit, but that would be my one true critique of the character is that the connection ratings do not match up with the power/description of the contacts.
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Your opinions have been noted, Sincereagape.
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it's CRAZY how much starting karma i blow on contacts, just to get them how i want them.
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Well, that's certainly a choice, Pondexter.
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this seems like a really good 4E mage, doesn't really take advantage of 5E rules.
not having a power foci 3, is going to cripple you for awhile. spells are resisted by two attrbitues now, you are just not throwing enough dice.
focus concentration 1 is ok but what you really want is focus concentration 5 or 6, so you can cast a force 5 or 6 improved attribute ( drain attribute), drain is a beast in this edition.
you dont have improved reflexes or combat sense. you need these, the game has become far more lethal. you need at least 2 force 1 sustaining foci and a stash of reagents so you can always have these up, and still be below the addiction threshold.
you character is playable,but you are going to have a beast of a time, with drain, and with getting enough hits, espically on manipulation spells.
magic/edge/resources/foci are more imporant that attributes and skils to a mage.
karma efficient is not the same as game effecient. your character is very karma efficient, but not very game efficient.
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I'll just say that I do agree that you really should have an initiative booster of some form, whether that is a spell or drugs is up to you. I wouldn't agree with a lot of the other suggestions, the build seems reasonably good otherwise (although I'd try to find some additional points for summoning). I would suggest that a casting dice pool of 11 to 15 is fine at the start and having the max drain dice possible without getting exceptional attribute and/or relying on a permanent boost to a drain attribute is just fine at chargen.
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he has 13 dice for his maipulation spells.
that is going to be his main thing.
1. you need high force, otherwise the person is going to be break free, because force acts as minus dice pool on your targets resist to break free, which is super imporant.
2. you need a lot of dice for this because only net hits count for the effect and the target is resisting with logic + willpower.
3. if you are using manipulation spells, thats a minus -2 for sustaining, which means he's down to 11 dice. ( 9 dice for everything else)
4. manipulation spells have high drain codes, and need to be cast at a high force to be effective. ( having a draining boost attribute is not a luxury)
5. the charecter won't even be able to do his shitck well, he doesn't have improved combat reflexes, he mind controls the troll sam but since he doenst have any passes left he can't command troll and the troll gets multiple chances to break free before the combat turns end and the mage gets to command the troll.
6. worse yet, now the character is really crippled and in a world of hurt. that manipulation spell requires high force and has to be sustained. so now he's at a minus 2 for everything.
he doesnt have combat sense- so his dodge is going to be awful, hes getting hit. he doesnt have heal,
combat sense is not really optional . taking damge has a greater impact on a mage than any other class, because any damage you take is damage you can't take as drain. which is why combat sense is always better than armor. things hit alot harder now, you are better off trying to dodge the attack with combat sense (which also has the nice effect of stacking with improved reflexes (for dodging) and bonus to suprises and prevents being suprise) than trying to soak the damage.
his dice pool is horrendous. he is 13 dice for manipulation and 11 dice for everything else. the first time he has to sustaining a spell, it's over. his dice pool of 9-13 dice is going to be opposed by 6-11 dice, those are terrible odds, since he has to resist drain regardless of whether or not he suceeds on the test.
I'm not saying his character won't work, im saying it's nowhere near reasonabley good for a 5E game, at least for a while.
to be an effective mage in 5E
you need to be sustaining combat sense/improved reflexes- every point of damage you avoid is another point of drain
you need a power foci because defense against spells got a massive bump in this edition - spell casting test with 12 dice are not trivial in this edition, there is a huge difference between 12 and 15 dice, and the chasm only widens as you begin to take penalties
you need to boost your drain because alot spells, mind control, indirect combat, attempting to affect anything technological, require alot of hits and high force to be effective.
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He has 15 dice. Magic 6, Spellcasting 5, Manipulation Specialization (+2), and he has a Trickster Mentor Spirit (which would presumably be based on Raven as the trickster mentor in the BBB) (+2).
That 15 dice pool is typically going to be resisted by 5 dice, using basic mooks of PR0 to PR2 (excluding Lieutenants, who generally have 6 dice) from the books, which is what chargen runners should be facing. Most of said mooks aren't going to have initiative boosters either. Once snared, they can try to resist, using the same 5 dice with a penalty of the Force of the spell.
Based on my experience of playing two mages in 5E games so far, you don't need most of the stuff ikarinokami is suggesting.
ETA: I did want to comment on your spell selection..
Armor - The 4 bonus dice for manipulations make this a decent choice, but most people prefer Combat Sense. Avoiding an attack altogether is almost always better than trying to soak the damage.
Fling - I probably wouldn't take this one, but I am guessing it fits your concept.
Ignite - I really am not a fan of this spell, mostly because the rules concerning it aren't all that clear.
Mob Mind - The drain is high on this one. The single target spell can often cause a lot of havoc in and of itself. If you get one dude shooting his friends, it can cause quite a bit of chaos.
Physical Barrier - It can have its place, but the way the barrier works usually means you need a really high force for it.
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ikarinokami
Thank you for your input. If I were planning on playing this character in a game where you were GMing, I'm sure I'd have made a more optimized character.
As I'm sure you can tell, this character is supposed to be young, reasonably inexperienced, and as such likely won't be going up against CorpSec any time soon. We simply have different views on what is "acceptable" in terms of dice pools, because we obviously have different expectations of the level of the opponents. That's fine; saying that the character is "nowhere near reasonabley [sic] good for a 5E game" is in my experience patently untrue, seeing as I did in fact get to play a few scenarios with him and I enjoyed myself quite well, thank you.
I see where you're coming from, I just don't agree that your assessment of what is required for a mage to be "effective" is a concrete fact. Thank you for voicing your opinion, though.
And JackVII has it on the nose; the character is using the Raven Mentor Spirit (similar archetypes are mentioned as being Deception and Mischief), his highest non magical dice pool is 17 (Con 5 + CHA 8 + Mentor Spirit 2 + First Impression 2), he rolls 15 dice Manipulation spells, and 13 to resist Drain. He's more of a Face than a fighter, and more of an social infiltrator than a sneaky one (hence First Impression and Fast Talking specialization).
The spell selection is also geared towards supporting his primary and secondary roles (Face, Social Infiltrator); Physical Mask and/or Influence enable the character to gain entry where needed; Trid Phantasm and Influence can help act as distractions, Ball Lightning, Armor, Mob Mind, and Physical Barrier are mostly combat oriented, but can also perform utility, while Fling is for surprise attacks, as using Fling to hit unaware subjects with injection darts full of Narcojet is far more efficient than using pistols or crossbows. Mind Probe is entirely utilitarian, as is Ignite; I don't see Ignite as combat spell, but as a utility spell.
As a comment to your comments, JackVII, and thanks for voicing them;
What I've gone for is a non-traditionalist mage type. Armor is not necessarily for me, but for team mates who could use even more armor; cast at Force 1 with Edge or Reagents and sustain using Focused Concentration. Combine with Trid Phantasm to make it appear as if the enemy is being overwhelmed, or create mirror images of the main combatant, and you've got a situation the kind of opponents I visualize the character going up against might not be prepared for.
Fling; see above. Injection Darts with Narcojet is a Manipulation mage's best friend. Against unaware targets (and chances are they will be, because the character is a social chameleon) all I need is 3 hits on my spellcasting test, which means Force 3. The target then has to resist 15S with a normal Toxin Resistance Test of BOD+WIL, and needs a total of 4 or 5 hits to not be knocked straight out, and even if he doesn't it is more than likely unaware of where the dart came from.
Ignite; "Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the night. LIGHT a man on fire, and he's warm... for the rest of his life." Seriously though, this is more of a utilitarian type spell than it is a combat type spell; I see it as potentially being useful to create distractions, used to cover the teams exit in combination with a Physical Barrier spell, you name it.
Mob Mind; Agreed, the drain on this one is not pleasant. This is one of those spells you cast at high force and Edge the drain resist to my mind (heh!). Make sure the AOE is large enough to catch several members of the opposing team, and you can have a fight go from "impossible" to merely "we might just live through this".
Physical Barrier; I don't see this as a combat spell as much as I see it preventing pursuit. Shooting through a barrier? No problem. RUNNING throught it? Not happening. Damaging barriers with penetrating weapons is (ironically) difficult, after all.
So yeah, thank you both for the feedback; I do see where you're coming from, less so in the case of ikarinokami because we apparently don't play the same kind of games, but I hear what you're saying.
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No offense Ikarinokami, but you're making wild accusations that almost no one else I've seen on the forums make about what a magician absolutely needs to be effective. I have already GM'd a game with martinchaen playing this character, and I do not go easy. If you think a magician with high skill in manipulation magic is absolute trash unless he also does absolutely everything in his power to be amazing at combat, how on earth do you think non-combat archetypes like the Face or the Decker work?
Three dice is nowhere near as humongous a gap as you think it is, and 13 dice is not some horrendously low pool. Three dice is one hit on average. A difference? Certainly. But not end-all-be-all. This character also has significant Drain Resist dice. Most characters I see have 10 to 12 and are not suddenly absolute shit like you seem to think.
I find it very rude that someone seemingly inexperienced would essentially tell someone their character is complete shit, using language to suggest your way is the absolute only way and nothing else could possibly be right. Some of what you said isn't completely accurate, either. You're new to the forums, I see, but just be careful. If you don't change your tone, you're likely to start a lot of arguments and get banned because of it.
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I'm not saying his character won't work, im saying it's nowhere near reasonabley good for a 5E game, at least for a while.
to be an effective mage in 5E
Why in the 9 hells must everything be min/max? as for being reasonable I think it has potential, i particularly like the background level of detail, the contacts etc etc, the trouble with min/max is that the GM will have to level the field of play, ok so you create the uber mage, face, whatever, the other players do the same, what does the gm do? .... 8)
so he is not perfect on what it refers to the numbers, so what? is that so bad (besides, you're sometimes discussing a 13 vs 16 dice.... wanna do the math on the avg hits over time?)?
and as firebug has already pointed, its rather... shall we say uncouth? to come into a forum, gunsblazing and posting in that sort (a bit crude if you ask me) of manner... yes its a matter of perspective and opinion, but instead of doing what you did you could have gone like: ok, i don't agree, i think you could improve it by doing X and Y.
instead you where like: for it to work it needs X and Y imperatively or else it will not be able to fly, period.
notice a difference?
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So you are saying it would be okay I have Miles Lanier or Lofwyr was a corporate contact at rating C1/L10?
Absolutely. They won't do anything for you, but they'll sure take your call and go out drinking with you. They might suggest to one of the lowest flunkies they have to help you out in a 'no skin off my nose' situation, but they'll greet you with great greetings any time you manage to get into where-ever it is they are - or, you know, wave aside their bodyguards so that you can get to where they are.
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So you are saying it would be okay I have Miles Lanier or Lofwyr was a corporate contact at rating C1/L10?
Absolutely. They won't do anything for you, but they'll sure take your call and go out drinking with you. They might suggest to one of the lowest flunkies they have to help you out in a 'no skin off my nose' situation, but they'll greet you with great greetings any time you manage to get into where-ever it is they are - or, you know, wave aside their bodyguards so that you can get to where they are.
Those are really good perks for a connection 1 rating.
Taken from page 387 "virtually no social influence; useful only for their knowledge skills." Regarding connection rating 1
5th edition has defined contacts in a thorough manner.
The way you are describing it is under the guise that he PC has Lofwyr at 12/1 (can't start off with a connection higher then rating 6)
Connection determines how powerful and how much influence they have
Loyalty determines how far and how much they will do for you.
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Are you trying to say that you're trying to trap me, or are you trying to say that you disagree with me?
Lanier or Lofwyr have (or should have) actual connection ratings in the double digits; no honest doubt about it. Isn't the real question whether they are willing to use all of that in order to help you? If all you can do is pick their brains over a beer, then for you that's a Connection 1 contact. Oh, hey, he'll always go out bowling with you, or the opera if you have tickets, he'll always go to the Sonics game, you can always crash on his (personal, out in Germany or Boston) couch for the night if your girlfriend threw your sorry ass out and you ain't got change for a coffin motel. That's what good-friends-to-the-end do for each other. If, however, he isn't going to ask anyone to do anything for you, isn't going to wield any of the clout he actually has, then that's effectively only a 1 for Connections.
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Are you trying to say that you're trying to trap me, or are you trying to say that you disagree with me?
Lanier or Lofwyr have (or should have) actual connection ratings in the double digits; no honest doubt about it. Isn't the real question whether they are willing to use all of that in order to help you? If all you can do is pick their brains over a beer, then for you that's a Connection 1 contact. Oh, hey, he'll always go out bowling with you, or the opera if you have tickets, he'll always go to the Sonics game, you can always crash on his (personal, out in Germany or Boston) couch for the night if your girlfriend threw your sorry ass out and you ain't got change for a coffin motel. That's what good-friends-to-the-end do for each other. If, however, he isn't going to ask anyone to do anything for you, isn't going to wield any of the clout he actually has, then that's effectively only a 1 for Connections.
i feel where you're going for here, but if someone says they're my best bud for life "loyalty 6" but wont lift a finger to help me when i need it, they are lying about how close a friends we are, and im kidding myself.
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Really? You'd quit your job, drive across the country to bury a body, change your name, and give all your money to your absolutely best friend just for the asking? If I'm understanding you correctly, that's the kind of thing a 'Loyalty 6' contact would do. But y'know, I know I would cover my ass and probably cut the guy loose to deal with the crap coming his way, 'cause that's going a little far for even 'BFF' friendship.
Lofwyr may not have the sort of pressures that Lanier has, but both of them have people literally watching their every move, and they have a whole hell of a lot more to lose if they get caught helping your sorry ass out. 'Head of Security Linked To Dirty Rotten Criminal Scum!! Oversight Committee Meeting To Be Held!! Lanier Sure To Be Fired - And Then Face Firing Squad!!' You have a guy who you've known since kindergarten, or who you were roommates with in boarding school or college, or whatever your explanation is. He is willing to step out of a boardroom meeting to give you his Very Fraggin' Valuable time and the advantage of his 'I Got a 22 in Magic Theory' skills and brain - and you're complaining that he doesn't do more for you because he won't have his corporate security come in with guns blazing to dig you out of trouble, have his personal doctor patch you up, and then give you the key to his penthouse?
Contacts go both ways. If you want him to do that for you, then you better be willing to bail out of the middle of a run to go chuck a firebomb on a whooole orphanage of cute little dwarf and elf kiddes right in front of the KSAF cameras, shooting the little darlings in gory blood-and-brain-spattering headshots as they run screaming out of the flames.
If you want that level of Connection in your play, then you'd better buy them with that level of Connections. I'm giving you an explanation of how six different people can have the same person at completely different levels of Loyalty and Connections. If you don't want to play that way, that's okay - but think about what you're proposing first.
"Dude, I can't do that. It'd be a media circus - I'd lose fifty billion in contracts."
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@ThewyrmOroboros
Can I just get this clear?
Lets say two runners each by the same contact -under your interpretation of the rules- for they're sprawl mayor, one gets him at C6/L1 and the other gets him at C1/L6. For whatever reason they're both in holding cells, they both make they're phonecall to the mayor, for the one who bought him at C1/L6 the conversation goes something like this:
Shadowrunner: "Hey buddy, got a problem, I'm in jail, can you pull a few strings and get me out no questions asked? I can pay you, an I'll owe you a big favour."
Mayor. "No can do bud, to risky, sorry."
Shadowrunner: "Wait, what? I can pay you if you like, I know you do this kind of stuff for other runners!"
Mayor: "Still no." *Hangs up*
The Shadowrunner who bought him at C6/L1 calls:
Shadowrunner: "Hello, my fixer put me in contact with you, I'm in jail, I heard you can get me out for a Fee?"
Mayor: "Correct, I'll make a phonecall, I expect 15k Nuyen to be in my account within the hour"
Shadowrunner "Done."
Soo...how on earth does that make sense?
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i see your point, wyrm.
I just think there's some middleground between "You can crash on the couch, but after that you're on your own", and "I am willing to destroy myself to help you"
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Lanier or Lofwyr have (or should have) actual connection ratings in the double digits; no honest doubt about it. Isn't the real question whether they are willing to use all of that in order to help you? If all you can do is pick their brains over a beer, then for you that's a Connection 1 contact.
All I am doing is going by the book definition of contacts. Once again connection rating determines social influence, knowledge, and clout they have in the 6th world and loyalty rating determines how much, how far, and what they are or what they are not willing to do for a character.
By having a rating one connection rating in each of these contacts, this character severely limits what the contact is able to do for them according to your definition.
As stated by Absols: IE for the Club owner contact for Loki (C1L5)
Loki: Hey, can you get me a meeting with the yakuza oyabun, hanzo who frequents this establishment and helped you get your club? I will pay you a large sum of nuyen. It is life or death and you are the closest thing I have to a friend. He thinks I killed some of his men but I was not even there, I need to explain it to him.
Alessia: Sorry doll, you're very handsome and I care about you, and I know you need this but I can't do it for you. I just don't have that pull for you. That's not our relationship.
Next runner: C4L2
Runner: hey toots I need to meet with hanzo and make it snappy. I am a regular and buy drinks from ya. Hanzo wants my balls because he thinks I killed some of his men and I just wanted a chance to tell him that it was some other Tusker and not me.
Alessia - sure big boy, you came to the right person. You can use our back room, but it will cost you.
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All right, everyone, that's quite enough of that. If you want to discuss the ramifications of Connection and Loyalty, this is not the place do to it any more.
I believe everyone's points have been made; to those who disagree with my choices on contacts, I hear what you are saying and thank you for voicing your opinion. To those who've contributed to the discussion; thank you for providing alternative views.
Suffice to say, I'm content with the choices I've made for the characters contacts, with the possible exception of Alessia Thorne.
I am considering changing her to a C2/L4 contact, because I realize I was looking at the meta game and/or stats more than anything else; a Bartender (which is the stock contact I based her on), has little value to me beyond knowledge skills, but this might not entirely fit her background.
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i can only speak for myself, but i assume the same is true for the rest of us. I never intended to come across as "attacky" or picking at anything.
sorry if things came out wrong, dude.
I dig the HELL out of the concept of the character.
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i can only speak for myself, but i assume the same is true for the rest of us. I never intended to come across as "attacky" or picking at anything.
sorry if things came out wrong, dude.
I dig the HELL out of the concept of the character.
^ This for me to.
I actually really do like your contact descriptions btw, most people I play with literally just put down there 'job' C/L and nothing else. I'm not experienced enough with the system to give you a mechanical critique of the character, so sorry about that. :-\
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Contact discussion move to Shadowrun Play / Rules and Such / Contacts: Official and Interpretive Explanations. (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=16152.0)
Sorry for the intrusion, Martin.
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Not at all Wyrm et al; I appreciated the input y'all provided.