Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Windshare on <11-12-10/1217:00>

Title: Elemental Strike
Post by: Windshare on <11-12-10/1217:00>
Hi,
I'm a bit confuse : how does exactly works the adept power : elemental strike ?

If I chose "Fire effect" for exemple, did I get all the benefits of the "fire effect" as described in the magic chapter ? (i-e half the impact armor and so on ?)
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: FastJack on <11-12-10/1225:06>
Yes, much like the Critter Elemental Attack, you also do the damage of the specific element. So with Fire effect, you'd get the ½ Impact Armor and the chance for items/targets to catch fire (SR4A, p. 164-165).
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Chaemera on <11-12-10/1326:25>
As FastJack said, yes. Here's how it the rules work out:

Quote from:  Street Magic, pg. 176, Elemental Strike
... Elemental Strike enhances the effects of Killing Hands with an elemental effect (see pp. 164-165 of this book and pp. 154-155 SR4). The specific elemental effect must be chosen at the time the power is bought, though an adept may take this power more than once to achieve different elemental effects (only one elemental effect may be applied per strike). ...
[i[SR4[/i] pp. 154 - 155 ==SR4A 163 - 165

Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 165, Fire Damage
... Treat Fire damage as Physical damage, but Impact armor only protects against it with half its value (round up). The fire resistance armor upgrade (p. 327) adds its full rating to the armor value.
     Objects hit by a Fire damage attack are at risk of catching fire. Make a damage ressitnace test using the item's Armor x2 (see Barriers, p. 166) or just Armor if they are vulnerable to the effect (flammable material vs. fire, for example) ...

So, if you've got Strength 4 and use Fire Elemental Strike, you'll deal out 2P(f) (Str/2, modified by Killing Hands, SR4A, pg. 196 and Fire Elemental Strike, above) as your base DV. Modify for net hits and all that happy stuff. It's also worth noting that with Killing Hands, Immunity to Normal Weapons is also out the window (SR4A, pg. 196, Killing Hands) on top of the -half Impact from Fire.

Just hope the spirit isn't wearing Fire Resistant 6 (SR4A, pg. 327) armor.
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: FastJack on <11-12-10/1341:28>
HADOUKEN!
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AQJThBLl2Xk/ReAp0TlsOXI/AAAAAAAAABU/7lgXfAITHUw/s400/Shakunetsu_Hadouken__149_by_HOON.jpg)


(Just had to toss this in there... ;D)
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Ultra Violet on <11-12-10/1759:20>
Not quite. ;) HADOUKEN is a Range Attack, Elemental Strike isn't compatible with Distance Strike.
Elemental Strike is more like that:
(http://brainmind.com/images/FlamingHand43.jpg)
or that...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/IronFist.jpg)
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Critias on <11-12-10/2029:08>
HADOUKEN!
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AQJThBLl2Xk/ReAp0TlsOXI/AAAAAAAAABU/7lgXfAITHUw/s400/Shakunetsu_Hadouken__149_by_HOON.jpg)


(Just had to toss this in there... ;D)
No, no.  That's Distance Strike.  ;)  You're thinking of...

SHO-RYU-KEN!
(http://www.overthinkingit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/shoryuken.jpg)

Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Chaemera on <11-12-10/2128:02>
Do you see what you've started, FastJack? sigh Someone, please, just put the thread down.
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <11-12-10/2129:56>
I would but I didn't have enough Power Points left for Fatality!
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: FastJack on <11-12-10/2143:37>
Please, you think a talk about Elemental Strike and Adepts wouldn't turn out this way? ;D
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Critias on <11-12-10/2207:50>
I mean, c'mon.  Elemental Strike: Fire.  If that's not Ken Masters busting out a Rising Dragon Punch, I dunno what is.   ;D

And since the actual mechanical/rules questions were already handily answered, what's the harm in a picture or two? 
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Chaemera on <11-12-10/2220:05>
No harm, no foul, just a facepalm. :P
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <11-12-10/2247:15>
*hands Chaemera a bouquet of flowers* Friendship!
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Chaemera on <11-12-10/2300:01>
*Immediately activates chem sniffer, looking for explosives.* There is no friendship in Shadowrun, only those you are blowing up, have blown up, or will blow up.
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: FastJack on <11-12-10/2301:20>
*hands Chaemera a bouquet of flowers* Friendship! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjmN_GdVt4w)
Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Jeeves on <11-16-10/1441:00>
can elemental strike be taken for the different elemental damages in street magic?

for example, I have a character and cant decide whether to spend 2 adept points on distance strike or four different elements.

I know blast, metal, and sound would be fun.

clapping to blow people's ear drums for the win
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: esprism on <11-16-10/1459:45>
You can choose 4 different elements but you only apply one element for a single attack.
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Tyrs13 on <11-17-10/1921:51>
Our adept just learned about the wonders of Elemental attack, can you say Smoke Elemental? Ignores armor modified by Killing Hands to Lethal Smoke damage.
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: voydangel on <11-17-10/1944:23>
Isn't killing hands a prerequisite for elemental strike? Doesn't that make all elemental strike damage Physical regardless of the element chosen? Or would you only (for example) do stun with smoke since the elemental effect overrides the killing hands damage type?
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Chaemera on <11-17-10/1951:46>
Isn't killing hands a prerequisite for elemental strike? Doesn't that make all elemental strike damage Physical regardless of the element chosen? Or would you only (for example) do stun with smoke since the elemental effect overrides the killing hands damage type?


Description for Elemental Strike includes the following:

Quote from:  Street Magic (2ndP), pg. 176, Elemental Strike
Elemental strike enhances the effects of Killing Hands with an elemental effect (see p. 164 - 165 of this book and pp. 154 - 155, SR4).

and Killing Strike specifies:
Quote from:  SR4A, pg 196, Killing Hands
When participating in unarmed combat, you may do normal Stun damage or declare the use of Killing Hands and inflict an equal amount of physical damage instead.

So, if Elemental Strike "enhances" Killing Strike, I would think the damage would have to be physical, since Killing Strike is defined as making your unarmed attacks physical damage.
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: voydangel on <11-17-10/1955:47>
So, if Elemental Strike "enhances" Killing Strike, I would think the damage would have to be physical, since Killing Strike is defined as making your unarmed attacks physical damage.

Probably a good call. Never really thought about it though, opens up a whole new ball of wax for physical damage inflicted by sound, smoke, electricity, etc... Very interesting. Especially noting that sound and smoke damage ignore armor completely.  :o
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Chaemera on <11-18-10/0641:32>
So, if Elemental Strike "enhances" Killing Strike, I would think the damage would have to be physical, since Killing Strike is defined as making your unarmed attacks physical damage.

Probably a good call. Never really thought about it though, opens up a whole new ball of wax for physical damage inflicted by sound, smoke, electricity, etc... Very interesting. Especially noting that sound and smoke damage ignore armor completely.  :o

Never said it didn't open a can of worms for game balance, just giving as close to a RAW answer as possible. I'd consider looking at house rule options, myself.

Never did like "smoke" as an "element", it's not very "elemental", even from the magical perspective.

Then again, from my perspective, I want to see someone with "helium strike". If we're gonna be elemental, let's be elemental!  ;D
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <11-18-10/0652:22>
Hmm, interesting. One could read it that Killing Hands turns Stun to Physical but that particular Elements turn it BACK to Stun. Icky.
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Chaemera on <11-18-10/0659:44>
Hmm, interesting. One could read it that Killing Hands turns Stun to Physical but that particular Elements turn it BACK to Stun. Icky.

But, if it's no longer physical, it's no longer killing strike! So killing strike converts it back to physical, elemental strike will then re-convert it back to stun. . . Oh god, the Shadowrun Infinite Loop!

That being said, while I see the problem with smoke / sound for ignoring armor, magic occupies a "special" place where Lightning bolt is the only thing in the core rules (SR4A only) where electricity suddenly is physical instead of stun damage. (see big long chat here (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=1054.0)) So, I can see an intention of it being physical damage, it just gets real cheesy when you add in smoke / sound.

I think they meant it to be physical elemental damage in all cases, I just also think they didn't think about all the cases they had available.

I'd probably house-rule it.
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Nomad Zophiel on <11-18-10/0750:35>
Well, cross referencing to the point of headache I agree. The intent seems to be more or less "elemental effects do physical damage at half impact armor" (see Elemental Effects in the SR4 magic section. Pg 204 in 4A) and then extra resistance can come from whatever is appropriate (insulation for cold, respirators for smoke etc). Then each element has a special effect. The one to really fear is Killing Acid Hands which, if I'm reading right, ignores half Impact then does its damage once per turn for several turns all while eating your armor. This gives me all sorts of bad ideas involving an adpet who is immune to a particular toxin on one hand and has Acid Hands and gas grenades. Is there a particular Quality/implant/Adept power that provides total immunity to a single toxin?

For my own house rule, if I was ever required to provide one, it would work like this:
Elemental Strike works based on the element you choose. Physical damage elements ignore 1/2 impact. Elements which ignore all armor deal stun damage. Basically, Elemental Strike's damage type supersedes Killing Hands. Don't want to do stun damage, pick an element that is resisted with 1/2 impact or don't activate your Stun strike.
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-18-10/0823:08>
Which makes the high armor PC's cry.  A lot.  And that's not counting the fumes that come off the armor, either.
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Sichr on <01-08-11/1729:46>
IMHO

Doing physical damage with the elemental effect. If we talk about lightning, add electricity stun damage resisted with half of impact armor.
if you get -2 mod for being hurt and another -2 mod for being stunned, its pretty bad for you...
Title: Re: Elemental Strike
Post by: Chrona on <01-08-11/1737:58>
does its damage once per turn for several turns all while eating your armor.
In the Acid spell descriptions it says Magic acid disapears after one turn, i assume thatd happen with elemental strike too unless you grapple and keep hold