Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: thalandar on <11-02-10/1850:12>
-
SR4 page 171
Vehicle Damage
"Whenever a vehicle is hit by an attack, it resists damage as normal, rolling body + armor. If the attack's modified DV does not exceed the vehicle's modified armor, no damage is applied."
What does "vehicle's modified amor" mean?
Examples below, are they correct?:
drone body 4 armor 8
(Player A) rolls to hit, with your pistol causing 9P damage. The drone resists body + armor (buying hits equals 3). Reducing damage to 6P. Vehicles Armor is 8, no effect.
(Player B) hits with his assult rifle (6p plus narrow burst +2 plus 6 net successes) causing 14P damage. The drone resists body + armor (buying hits equals 3). Reducing damage to 11P, vehicle armor 8, vehicle takes 11P damage and is destroyed (8 + (BOD(4)/2=10 max damage).
So my read of the above situation is this; If player does less than armor rating plus net hits (in this case armor 8 plus auto net hits of 3, or 11P) the drone is not effected. If player does more than armor rating plus net hits (in this case armor 8 plus auto net hits of 3, or 11P) the drone is destroyed. In this case it means either you destroy it or you have no effect. Am I right?
In the same situation above:
Mercury comet (body 10, armor 6)
(Player A) rolls to hit, with your pistol causing 9P damage. The comet resists body + armor (buying hits equals 4). Reducing damage to 5P. Vehicles Armor is 6, no effect.
(Player B) hits with his assult rifle causing 14P damage. The comet resists body + armor (buying hits equals 4). Reducing damage to 10P, vehicle armor 6, vehicle takes 10P damage and is heavily damaged (8 + (BOD(10)/2=13 max damage) or -3 to all actions.
It just seems to me that vehicles are pretty easy to destroy.
-
not quite.
SR4 page 171
Vehicle Damage
"Whenever a vehicle is hit by an attack, it resists damage as normal, rolling body + armor. If the attack's modified DV does not exceed the vehicle's modified armor, no damage is applied."
What does "vehicle's modified amor" mean?
...
Modified armor in this case means the vehicles armor modified by Armor Penetration. So if the modified DV of the weapon is equal to or lower than the vehicles Armor minus the attackers AP, then there is no need to roll damage resist, and there is no damage done.
Using your drone examples - but corrected for the way it's supposed to work:
(Player A) rolls to hit, with your pistol causing 9P damage.
The drones armor is 8, therefore the drone might take damage.
It then continues on and resists with body + armor and gets (or buys) 3 successes.
Reducing damage to 6P. ouch.
(Player B) hits with his assault rifle (6p plus narrow burst +2 plus 6 net successes) causing 14P damage.
The drone resists body + armor (buying hits equals 3),
Reducing damage to 11P which destroys the vehicle (8 + (BOD(4)/2=10 max damage).
Using your car examples - but corrected for the way it's supposed to work:
(Player A) rolls to hit, with your pistol causing 9P damage. Armor is 6: needs to resist damage.
The comet resists body + armor (buying hits equals 4). Reducing damage to 5P. ouch
(Player B) hits with his assault rifle causing 14P damage. Armor is 6: needs to resist damage.
The comet resists body + armor (buying hits equals 4). Vehicle takes 10P damage and is heavily damaged.
So, 1. you compare the modified DV to the modified armor before rolling to resist damage. 2. Rolling is always better than buying hits. 3. Keep in mind this is all assuming the drone or car is just sitting there and not moving - vehicles and drones do get to roll to evade and thereby reduce the net hits - which thereby reduces the modified DV of the attack. 4. Yes, bullets hurt.
Now for a couple examples of my own:
(Player C) rolls to hit and gets 4 hits with an Colt America L36. His modified DV is 8. Drones armor is 8. No damage. No roll needed.
(Player D) rolls to hit and gets 5 hits with an Ares Predator IV. Drone rolls to dodge and gets 3 hits.
His modified DV is 7. Drones armor is 8. But the Predator has an AP of "-1". So the Drones modified Armor is only 7.
But that's not quite good enough. No damage. No roll needed.
(Player D) rolls to hit again and gets 6 hits with an Ares Predator IV.
Drone rolls to dodge and gets 3 hits. His modified DV is 8. Drones armor is 8. But the Predator has an AP of "-1".
So the Drones modified Armor is only 7. So the drone will need to roll to soak the damage.
It resists by rolling ;) body + armor and gets 5 hits. Reducing damage taken to only 3P.
-
A reminder though against Harden Armor the Stage up from Burstfire does not apply or Barriers, I think it also applies to Vehicles But I am unable access my book right now
-
@voydangel
Using your drone examples - but corrected for the way it's supposed to work:
(Player A) rolls to hit, with your pistol causing 9P damage.
The drones armor is 8, therefore the drone might take damage.
It then continues on and resists with body + armor and gets (or buys) 3 successes.
Reducing damage to 6P. ouch.
Incorrect. Ref SR4 page 167 Vehicle Armor If an attack's modified DV (6P) does not exceed a vehicles modified Armor rating ( 8 ), then the attack automaticlly fails.
-
@ Shadowalker
By stage up from a burst, are you ref SR4 page 153 under narrow burst "Note that this DV modifer (ie the +2 to DV due to Narrow Burst) does not apply when comparing the DV to the armor rating"?
-
@voydangel
Using your drone examples - but corrected for the way it's supposed to work:
(Player A) rolls to hit, with your pistol causing 9P damage.
The drones armor is 8, therefore the drone might take damage.
It then continues on and resists with body + armor and gets (or buys) 3 successes.
Reducing damage to 6P. ouch.
Incorrect. Ref SR4 page 167 Vehicle Armor If an attack's modified DV (6P) does not exceed a vehicles modified Armor rating ( 8 ), then the attack automaticlly fails.
I agree with Voydangel's method. If you look on page 160 SR4A under Armor, it will tell you how the modified DV is calculated. Check out the example in green text to see it worked out step by step.
Modified DV is based on net hits on the attack test whereas each net hit adjusts the DV up. That result is the modified DV (which in Voyd's example is 9P). The modified DV is then compared to the armor rating to determine if the attack penetrated the Vehicles armor or not, similar to how you compare it to a character's personal armor to determine if it is Physical or Stun damage.
Once that is done, you do the damage resistance check to reduce overall damage.
-
@voydangel
Using your drone examples - but corrected for the way it's supposed to work:
(Player A) rolls to hit, with your pistol causing 9P damage.
The drones armor is 8, therefore the drone might take damage.
It then continues on and resists with body + armor and gets (or buys) 3 successes.
Reducing damage to 6P. ouch.
Incorrect. Ref SR4 page 167 Vehicle Armor If an attack's modified DV (6P) does not exceed a vehicles modified Armor rating ( 8 ), then the attack automaticlly fails.
I don't see how this is incorrect... 9 > 8 - where are you getting 6p from?
EDIT:
PS: Qemuel said it before me, I missed his post. So... " What he said ^^ " :)
-
@ Shadowalker
By stage up from a burst, are you ref SR4 page 153 under narrow burst "Note that this DV modifer (ie the +2 to DV due to Narrow Burst) does not apply when comparing the DV to the armor rating"?
I can't explicitly speak for him, but I would wager yes is the answer here. The phrase "Stage up" is an old 2nd edition term that we old folks still (mis)use from time to time when talking about modifying an attacks DV with net hits and/or pre-armor comparison/pre-damage-resist modifiers.
Edit: Also, now that I think about it, I'm fairly certain that the +2(or more)DV from burst fire doesn't apply to the DV of an attack until after comparing it to any type of armor - not just hardened armor.
-
@voydangel
Oh, Ok I see what your saying! :o Duh, my brain just wasn't wrapping around it. The modified DV of the Weapon (base DV + net hits = 9P). I was thinking modified DV wa base DV + net hits - hits from body + armor roll (that's where I got the 6P from ;D ) Now it makes sense! Dang, vehicles still are fragile, but its not a case of either no damage or destroyed like I thought. They really need an example it the book like, yours, to walk morons like me through it.
-
Edit: Also, now that I think about it, I'm fairly certain that the +2(or more)DV from burst fire doesn't apply to the DV of an attack until after comparing it to any type of armor - not just hardened armor.
[/quote]
Based on SR4 page 153, that's way I read it, too, Voydangel
-
@ Shadowalker
By stage up from a burst, are you ref SR4 page 153 under narrow burst "Note that this DV modifer (ie the +2 to DV due to Narrow Burst) does not apply when comparing the DV to the armor rating"?
Yep that is what I meant Just could not access my book at the time and as voydangel said I was using a slightly archaic term to try to explain what I meant
Thank you both for Translating ;D