Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: RareBreed on <07-26-11/2131:38>

Title: Awakened AI?
Post by: RareBreed on <07-26-11/2131:38>: Has there ever been a recorded instance of an awakened AI? Would it be possible?

If AI are some kind of special Resonance life form (making them akin to Sprites), then I would assume not. However, if AI are truly "alive", then why wouldn't they be able to have mana channeled through/by them? And this gets me to thinking, wouldn't AI give off auras if they were truly alive? If they do not, then AI are not true "living" forms (which opens a can of worms on their rights to just about anything).

I sincerely hope that the definition of "life" required for becoming awakened is not prejudiced towards biological forms only, even if just from a game story point of view. Wouldn't it be cool to have awakened AI? :)
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Critias on <07-26-11/2141:04>: My money's on "not possible."
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: CanRay on <07-26-11/2224:36>: I'd suggest asking the E-Ghost Dragon.

Of course, you'd probably have to cut a deal with him, and, well... ;D
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Lacynth40 on <07-26-11/2304:13>: Um, as far as mana slinging, I would have to go with, WHAT??? No, seriously, the game books are pretty specific on mana not flowing through sensors, and magic not working on AR or VR perceptions. So, no, gonna have to go with, NO! AI's are already beefy enough. You do not need one slinging spells and summoning spirits as well. The electronic medium they live in will not support mana exchanges.

That's just my opinion, though.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RareBreed on <07-27-11/0854:10>: But is it that mana can't flow throw sensors, AR, VR or other circuitry because they aren't "alive"? Also, are there any rules on awakened using cybereyes? Or what about magesight systems? Basically, that's just a fiber optic cable that runs to the mages real eyes. I don't see a difference between that and having an AI mind look through some kind of interface.

Frankly, I found the whole "mana only flows through living things" to be problematic. It hampers the Awakened in space, and it also makes one beg the question, what is life? If a machine had free will, was sentient, sapient, and can reproduce, what more do you need to be called living? A soul? I'm a Buddhist...look up anatta or sunyata for our take on souls :)
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Trenchknife on <07-27-11/1449:51>: My understanding is that any awakened being that tries to use its astral sense in space is about to have a very bad day. I don't remember the reference, but space is a 'virtual' vacuum, and devoid of life. Life is a REQUIREMENT for magic. You must have Essence in order to use magic.

So...AI's are not living in any biological sense. Thus they can have no Essence. Thus they can have no access to magic. That's my understanding.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: CanRay on <07-27-11/1525:55>: Maybe if the AI is looking through Fiber Optics? :P
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: bigity on <07-27-11/1625:58>: Quote from: Trenchknife on <07-27-11/1449:51>
My understanding is that any awakened being that tries to use its astral sense in space is about to have a very bad day. I don't remember the reference, but space is a 'virtual' vacuum, and devoid of life. Life is a REQUIREMENT for magic. You must have Essence in order to use magic.

So...AI's are not living in any biological sense. Thus they can have no Essence. Thus they can have no access to magic. That's my understanding.

Yet cyberzombies, which have no essence (in fact, negative essence) can be sustained by magic, even making them dual-natured.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RareBreed on <07-27-11/1909:07>: But that goes back and begs the question...what is life? Is it only biological? In that case yes, AI can not be "alive", and can not have Essence. But what about Spirits?

From Street Magic:
"Complicating the ongoing debate over the independent sapience of spirits is the fact that they have yet to be conclusively demonstrated to be alive in the classic sense."

Spirits aren't necessarily alive, and yet they obviously have Essence and can use magic. So it seems to me that AI are still a kind of "life force".
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Critias on <07-27-11/1914:26>: You're mixing a philosophical debate into a rules question. Or perhaps vice-versa. That's really interesting and all, but if you choose to change the canon to suit your debate, just be aware you're flying into house rule territory.

Allowing AIs to have a Magic attribute goes against the (firm) ruling in Runner's Companion, page 89. "Metasapients may never have a Magic or Resonance attribute, and so may not learn skills that require these attributes," as well as the list of Qualities that are allowed to them (note that Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, and even Technomancer are not options).
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RareBreed on <07-28-11/0257:13>: Thanks Critias

this is what I was looking for, some canonical ruling that would forbid AI's from being Awakened. My interest was in perhaps weaving a storyline with Awakened AI if the potential was there, but if this is flat out denied, then that idea goes out the window.

Pity though...
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Critias on <07-28-11/0312:54>: If you want a magical one in your home campaign, make a magical one. It wasn't that long ago there were no AIs, after all, or that a dragon first got a datajack installed and leapt into the Matrix, or that weres or ghouls or free spirits weren't PC material. If you think it's a cool idea (and can think of a way or reason for an AI to cast a spell in the first place), knock yourself out. Make it a plot point in a campaign you run, and have fun with it.

I question, personally, the blurring of the "magic versus machine" line like that, and I wonder when or how an AI would do anything with magic (since AIs don't really exist in the real world, would they cast spells in the Matrix? How would that interact with other people operating through technological rather than "real" statistics? Would they summon spirits in the Matrix, while everyone else had Sprites? Could an AI cast spells through monofilament lenses into the real world? How would a GM or PCs challenge such an uber-security-rigger type character? Besides offering one interpretation of the "What it means to be alive" philosophical debate, what would a magical AI actually do?)...but, hey. If you think it's a badass idea and can make it work in your campaign, make it work.

There's no need to let my misgivings, or some silly rulebook, stop you. It's your game, not ours.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RareBreed on <07-28-11/1045:54>: Hi Critias-

It's funny, because I personally question the divide between man and machine :) I'm interested in Transhuman concepts, or what exactly defines "humanity" (or metahumanity as the case may be). As a corollary, I question what it means to be "alive". After reading some more of the rules, I have come to the conclusion that AI in the Shadowrun world are not truly alive (just special programs, indeed, it flat out says so in the Runners Companion), and thus would have no moral quandries about "enslaving" or "killing" them (I put them in quotes, because if you are not truly alive but a construct, how can you be enslaved or killed?....regardless of whether you think you have freewill, emotions, and the will to live). To me, this distinction between man and machine, or more appropriately, life and unlife, feels artificial, and I get a feeling something like I did when in Star Wars it was explained that the Force was generated by living midichlorians. However, from a purely game balance situation, I can kind of understand the need for this distinction.

But more tangent to your point is regarding "officiality" of rules. When you go against canon, it technically isn't "Shadowrun" anymore, it's my own hacked version. It's one thing to have house rules which alter how initiative or combat is done for example, because these are rules intended to help simulate reality. There is a basis for them. But storyline is something different. The shadowrun world, it's origins, ideas, and atmosphere are entirely fictional....BUT based on a certain internal worldview. And this fictional setting doesn't have to borrow anything from the real world.

More importantly the setting is a shared, communal experience. Take a look at these forums for example. There are many reasons people go to them, but one of them is to share in this world setting. If you go against how things are according to the setting, when you describe your campaign to others, they are going to be surprised. To put it another way, there's no (plausible) way you could transplant gamers from a canonical game world campaign into a non-canonical one. It would be no more different than allowing Technomancer/Awakened, or say for example ruling that augmentation has no essence cost (because perhaps the GM feels that essence is akin to a soul, and they don't believe in souls). As an analogy, it would be akin to saying in Battletech for example, that the Clans never invaded the Inner Sphere, or that the Clans didn't take a martial philosophy. To do this means you aren't really playing Battletech anymore, and you can't share your experience with others.

So, I am playing in Shadowrun's sandbox, and many players want to feel they are playing in "that" world. Sure, a GM comes up with ideas, but those ideas are both fed and constrained by the canonical setting. Some aspects are just too core, and having Awakened AI would be like a -6 Essence upgrade :)
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Critias on <07-28-11/1104:37>: Without getting into a philosophical debate concerning the very nature of role playing games (or, rather, trying to get into that debate but be concise about it), I disagree. Published materials are inspiration, not Word of God. All this stuff is just pixels in a pdf file or splashes of ink on paper; if you get some mileage out of it and it helps you run an awesome game, great, but never, ever, let it get in the way of that awesome game.

Now, if you and your players have decided, as a group, to stick with the canonical setting, that's fine, don't get me wrong. But I don't think people need to feel obligated to, or should feel like they're playing Shadowrun "wrong" if they make a conscious decision to make big changes, or to fill in some of the "what if...?" conspiracy gaps with their own answers, or to set a game in 2045 or 2085 instead of anywhere in the published sourcebook timeline, or anything else they want to do. If it's awesome for you and your gaming group, it's awesome. Period. Adherence to canon is strictly optional, in my opinion.

"Let slinging dice, telling cool stories, and having fun be the whole of the law."
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RareBreed on <07-28-11/1235:47>: Oh I definitely agree it's my game ;D I would never deny anyone to play how they feel it should be played.

But me personally, I feel an obligation to play in the same sandbox everyone else is, and provide a world that is compatible with that setting. Like I said, gaming is a shared experience. Some people feel that the only "community" that matters is their own little gaming group. There's definitely nothing wrong with that.

But there's also the point to be made that there's a larger community than just your local gaming group. And when you are in that larger community, you play by those rules or in that setting.

So really, it depends on your gaming group. If everyone in the group is ok with cutting off a core essence setting of a game (magic slinging androids, technomancer/shamans, or zero-essence loss street samurai for example), then more power to that group. But if there are those who feel that they aren't truly playing Shadownrun anymore because of those core changes, that way of thinking should also be respected. With the emergence of non-local gaming using computer software to play with many people from across the world, I think that these ways of thinking needs to be addressed more carefully. House rules are one thing.....House setting is another.

In general though, I think people want or at least like consensus. They want either an official say-so, or at least a broad acceptance that some rules, history or aspect of the setting fits in with the rest of the world if there is no definitive answer. If this were not true, forums wouldn't be popular :) People would just come up with their own rules and settings without regard for how the larger community does things.

Neither approach is right or wrong, but it's definitely something to be discussed with the group you game with.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: BSOD on <07-30-11/1402:26>: On another note, if you do change things keep it small, or let the players know. Nothing worse than having your character act one way, then finding out the setting you read, doesn't quite match up with the one the GM is running. And now your about to get right royally frakked.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RareBreed on <07-31-11/1834:23>: That's kind of exactly what I mean. I actually don't believe it's "your" game world...I believe it's "our" game world. And the definition of "our" can be confined to your local group or it could encompass what the majority of shadowrun players agree on (ie the canonical setting). Figuring out what the definition of "our" means is important when you think about tweaking the rules or setting in any form.

Like I said, just a pity that officially, it would appear that AI can't be awakened. Though I did catch a potential loophole ;)

For those who aren't against breaking the official setting, the Runner's Companion rule only says that Metasapients can't be awakened. It says nothing about the other kinds of AI types. It also only mentions AI as part of the matrix gestalt. There's still room for androids, or other AI whose "host" is not the gestalt matrix. In other words, an embodied or otherwise reified AI.

For example, an android with a sophisticated enough processor "device" might be able to host an AI (for example, a quantum computer, which surprisingly, I have found no mention of). This would also neatly side-step some thorny issues, like magic requiring line of sight. I think the spirit of the law (no pun intended) is that the sight must be intrinsic or innate to the magician. This is backed up by the fact that a mage who pays for cybereyes or biomods with essence is still allowed to use magic. Because he paid essence for it, the artificial vision is now an intrinsic part of him.

An android's senses, his "life" would be localized. Therefore, you can have an intrinsic or innate aspect to the AI, including physical attributes.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: StarManta on <08-03-11/1830:31>: There are two approaches conceptually: the hardware is magical, or the software is magical. The software approach is much more implausible and unbalancing to the game IMHO.

I would suggest reading the Manatech section of Arsenal (p.64) for inspiration on ways that technology and Magic can interact. For example, an AI that lives in a commlink that has been experimentally merged with some dual natured creature's brain cells might have some control over Magic. There are also rules in Running Wild for biodrones, which could totally be awakened and controlled by an AI.

As for the software approach, an Awakened AI could, for example, dig into the heart of a corp's network, then cast a spell from one of its computers after inside, bypassing all of the corp's astral security.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Charybdis on <08-03-11/2228:59>: Quote from: RareBreed on <07-31-11/1834:23>
That's kind of exactly what I mean. I actually don't believe it's "your" game world...I believe it's "our" game world. And the definition of "our" can be confined to your local group or it could encompass what the majority of shadowrun players agree on (ie the canonical setting). Figuring out what the definition of "our" means is important when you think about tweaking the rules or setting in any form.
No, really, it's 'Your' world

If you want a Shadowrun world where aliens have invaded from Pluto, muppets spontaneously developed sentience and the SURGE from Halley's Comet turned the oceans to vanilla custard, this is your right as GM.

And if the Players think this is awesome, it could have an amazing amount of fun and potential.
If they don't think it's awesome, you may run out of players and your campaign will fall apart, but that's part of the balancing act that is the role of GM :) Changing just enough to make it fun for everybody.

The SR4 series of sourcebooks is not a Library of Law books. The PC's may look for ways to bend the suggested rules and regulations, but the GM is the final arbiter, and Rule Zero applies.
- If the GM decides bullets magically don't work anymore, then that's what happens.
- If the GM decides that Awakened metasapients/androids are possible, then that's what happens.

You will find that many GM's (myself included) will incorporate rule-breaking in order to fund a plot point.
- Yes, you rolled 12 successes with your Assault Cannon, but the seemingly thin pane of glass holds true and the NPC-Villain gets away
- Yes, Dragons normally get the Magician quality. This one actually has the Mystic Adept quality...so be afraid....
- Indeed, the Shedim inhabiting your dead wife just passed through your magical wards.... you don't know how.
and way back when, someone asked 'Hey, what if Shadowrun programs became sapient?' and thus AI's were born and Deus/Arcology went a bit loopy....

So, if breaking the mechanics will enhance the plot of your game (with an Awakened AI), then just do it :D
- You don't need permission from a forum
- You don't need to find a loophole in the rulebook
- Just.Do.It.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Trenchknife on <08-03-11/2315:42>: Quote from: Charybdis on <08-03-11/2228:59>
- Just.Do.It.

<KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK>

"Who do you think that is?"

"My guess...a Nike Hit Sqaud."
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Charybdis on <08-03-11/2335:33>: Quote from: Trenchknife on <08-03-11/2315:42>
Quote from: Charybdis on <08-03-11/2228:59>
- Just.Do.It.

<KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK>

"Who do you think that is?"

"My guess...a Nike Hit Sqaud."
Bring it ;)

What are they going to do? Beat me to death with their ultra-shock-reducing footpads?
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RareBreed on <08-04-11/0014:11>: Well we just have different beliefs on it being "my" game world :)

I respect that there may be players who don't like the fact that I have aliens invading from Uranus :P To disregard their opinion or philosophy isn't something I'm willing to do. OTOH, if all the players in the group are cool with it then it's all good.

But to say that you can change the rules and setting willy nilly without giving respect to player's opinion is in my opinion playing God. Is it my "right" as a GM? Sure, just as it's a "right" for players to not want to play your game :) After all, many players bought Shadowrun books because they want THAT world.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Charybdis on <08-04-11/0033:54>: Quote from: RareBreed on <08-04-11/0014:11>
Well we just have different beliefs on it being "my" game world :)

I respect that there may be players who don't like the fact that I have aliens invading from Uranus :P To disregard their opinion or philosophy isn't something I'm willing to do. OTOH, if all the players in the group are cool with it then it's all good.

But to say that you can change the rules and setting willy nilly without giving respect to player's opinion is in my opinion playing God. Is it my "right" as a GM? Sure, just as it's a "right" for players to not want to play your game :) After all, many players bought Shadowrun books because they want THAT world.
All part of the balancing act ;)

But if players want just 'THAT world' then you're actually limited to just what's in the books.
The books have no Awakened AI's, rendering this entire discussion invalid :o

If you want to continue ad absurdum, then yes, the GM is indeed playing God, every session at every table.
- How many SWAT members attack the team?
- Do they have APDS?
- And a Tank?
- With a Rigger?
- Who's an AI and also a Gunnery guru?
- And has a spare nuke with Itchy trigger finger?

These are questions that come from the imagination and creativity of the GM.
- You can be a laid-back, easy-going god and only give them scenarios the PC's can handle.
- You can be a monstrous, chaotic and vindictive god, punishing the players at every turn and using metagaming pizza-shortages to inflict in-Game pain.
- You can be an impartial, fair and encouraging god who impartially rules on an defined set of mechanics, giving challenging but never insurmountable scenarios for PC's to be challenged by.

All of the above are valid. And here's the rub.
All of the above can be ENJOYABLE

It depends on your group. I've had a group that were ultra-strict on schedules, time-per-PC-per-turn, and in-game expected to be hunted down and killed at every turn in an incredibly dark Shadowrun campaign. And they LOVED it. As GM, I was always worried I was being too harsh, but they lapped it up like a classic Samurai movie, with PC sacrifice (holding the line), torn to death by dogs, and even ritual Seppuku just three examples of how some of the PC's kicked the bucket in this MEAT-GRINDER campaign. And out of character, they expected combat to be snappy, and if anyone took more than 10-SECONDS to determine a course of action, they forfeited their Initiative Pass. Was intense....

So, yes, it's your world. You can change it as you wish. And it's up to you how 'happy' you keep your players in doing so.
And yes, there have been silly campaigns where the oceans turned to custard. Ahh, the early teenage years where aliens from Uranus was the highest form of humour....
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: JoeNapalm on <08-04-11/1550:50>: Well said, Char.

As GM, it is absolutely your world. Even if you choose to run it 100% RAW, it's still yours. (Heck, it is likely fairly unique, as most GMs never run any system straight out of the box, so to speak.)

That said, you should have a consistant world. Suspension of disbelief is important in any story. Spell-chucking Trolls are fine, because they are consistent with the setting. The fact that an Awakened AI is NOT consistent with the setting isn't a show stopper - you simply need to address the apparent paradox.

For instance, if you decide that, in your world, Magic and Matrix are not incompatible, the Magic-savy in your group need to be aware of this. If they still ARE diametrically opposed, and the Awakened AI is an anomaly, then either A) have a reason such a thing could exist (such as something akin to a Technospirit from another dimension possessing a supercomputer, some kind of bizarre technological SURGE-like event, etc) or, B) acknowledge that it shouldn't be possible, and yet it appears to be.

The beauty of option B is that your players, if you're running a solid, consistent game, will chase their tails for ages trying to figure out why...even suggesting plausible reasons you'd never come up with - assuming that you actually know the reason.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Reaver on <08-17-11/2115:10>: To be honest, I don't think anything canon stands up to the first taste of PCs :) as soon as the players have there say/do, most things get skewed quickly :p In my game we ran "ghost cartels", but the players decided to shoot Uribe in the face, KO Riveros and sell her off to a Corp back in the UCAS!! Not exactly a canon ending to tempo..... But a great game none the less!!
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: beowulf_of_wa on <08-17-11/2236:48>: various groups i have run with

A: turned DNA/DOA into a TPK without even getting to the lab.
B: has a persistent world of all palladiums various games in one messed up rifts based place.
C: killed the big bad the second time they saw him, 1/4 of the way thru the mission

back to the original question: assuming you choose to allow it, a spirit possessing a technomancer would be one of the better possibilities, or a e-ghost pulling an agent smith on a mage/adept. either way, it has to be a magic/resonance capable physical body.

both the matrix and the astral have "exclusive" paths of access from the physical world, and beyond them are the metaplanes and deep resonance. a truly awakened AI (or resonant spirit) would be able to skip the phys world totally, and assuming initiation have access to both higher levels.

like the idea, don't want it inn my game world.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Sichr on <08-18-11/0733:20>: I will be interested in anaanswer why is AI forbid to be Resonance being? Seemed to me that first Otaku were created by Deus, AI itself...and how should one create something that it didnt have an access to?
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Charybdis on <08-18-11/0743:04>: Quote from: Sichr on <08-18-11/0733:20>
I will be interested in anaanswer why is AI forbid to be Resonance being? Seemed to me that first Otaku were created by Deus, AI itself...and how should one create something that it didnt have an access to?

A) it's the ultimate conflict of Technology vs Magic. These things don't work well together at teh best of times, so blending them is (at this point) not possible
B) I don't really understand your example. Yes, Deus was involved in creating Otaku.. Deus (AI) was technological. Otaku (/Technomancers) were also technological. There's no conflict here....
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Sichr on <08-18-11/0759:49>: Quote from: Charybdis on <08-18-11/0743:04>
Quote from: Sichr on <08-18-11/0733:20>
I will be interested in anaanswer why is AI forbid to be Resonance being? Seemed to me that first Otaku were created by Deus, AI itself...and how should one create something that it didnt have an access to?

A) it's the ultimate conflict of Technology vs Magic. These things don't work well together at teh best of times, so blending them is (at this point) not possible
B) I don't really understand your example. Yes, Deus was involved in creating Otaku.. Deus (AI) was technological. Otaku (/Technomancers) were also technological. There's no conflict here....

A: ??? I wasnt talking about Magic, but Resonance ???
B: Exactly...AI created Technomancers= AI created Resonance beings, but RAW AI cannot be resonnance being. Thats what confusing me...
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: beowulf_of_wa on <08-18-11/0911:27>: Quote from: Charybdis on <08-18-11/0743:04>

B) I don't really understand your example. Yes, Deus was involved in creating Otaku.. Deus (AI) was technological. Otaku (/Technomancers) were also technological. There's no conflict here....

i disagree, otaku/TM are not technological, they access tech without using any, at best they could be called psychic, but the way the rules are written, resonance is equivalent to being awakened. consider it a rare opportunity with mutually exclusive options.

but SR6 will have black ice/horrors available as PC.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Sichr on <08-18-11/0919:21>: You mean SR60A? Or SR 6.66ed?
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Reaver on <08-18-11/1235:31>: I think the biggest reason why AIs can't be magical is that they don't have a body! They have no mass, no physical body to speak of... They are just complex code consisting of 1s and 0s. Sure the optical drive/chip/computer has mass/body but again you are talking about a highly processed piece of equipment, and not a flesh and blood thing. From the write up about magic in the main rule book, we know magic doesn't respond well to highly processed items. (hence why healing cyber characters is harder, wreck spells have a higher drain code then mana spells, etc)

Without that physical body to interact with mana, you have no magic rating.
You could always go with the options listed above and have a mage "possessed" by an AI for a magical/techno threat.... And of course there is always GM fiat and your awakened AI is a unique entity.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Sichr on <08-18-11/1449:43>: well, but why not Resonance?
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Xzylvador on <08-18-11/1519:08>: Quote
The books have no Awakened AI's, rendering this entire discussion invalid :o

Not buying Cerberus/Eliohahn being an actual Dragon AI ghost-in-a-shell?
Dragons are purely magical beings yet somehow this one turned into an AI... what'll happen if he finds a way back into his body?
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Lacynth40 on <08-18-11/2014:12>: Yeah, and notice not even the spirit of a great trapped in the machine has a magic rating. No body, no magic.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Charybdis on <08-19-11/0814:14>: Quote from: Lacynth40 on <08-18-11/2014:12>
Yeah, and notice not even the spirit of a great trapped in the machine has a magic rating. No body, no magic.
I don't agree with this logic. Spirits for example, have no 'body' but plenty of magic.

An AI is a creature BORN of the matrix. The dragon-ghgost-in-the-shell is currently the idea of a consciousness being ripped from someone (Awakened or mundane is irrelevent), and roaming the matrix.

This has been done with Matrix ghosts for some time, and is completely legit. However an Awakened AI, a creature born in the Matrix, but having Magical attributes? Hmmm, I'm really not sold on this idea.

And it's definitely not canon possible RAW. At least, not yet (we didn't used to have AI's, technomancers or changelings either, so I'm not ruling it out forever. Am just saying that as it stands, it's not kosher. And IMHO, not a good development point anyway *shrugs*)
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: CanRay on <08-19-11/0934:51>: IIRC, he's also not a great, just a dragon. ONLY a dragon. :P
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Reaver on <08-19-11/1344:50>: Spirits seem to be made entirely of mana (they are summoned/escape from the astral plane) hence why body is determined by force. As for the dragon..... We know why he's comatose? Is it the data jack? Did he go comatose when his mind 'escaped' to the matrix?
Until we know why he's in a coma, it's hard to say what happens to a magical entity that's hooked to the matrix.

But once again, it's your game, run it how you want!!
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Parker on <12-06-11/0240:26>: Exactly!!!!

Never forget the acronym 'G.O.D.' --- Gamemaster On Duty. 8)
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Mirikon on <12-06-11/0622:54>: Quote from: Parker on <12-06-11/0240:26>
Exactly!!!!

Never forget the acronym 'G.O.D.' --- Gamemaster On Duty. 8)
So the Corporate Court Matrix Authority has an entire division of gamers?
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: CanRay on <12-06-11/1040:55>: Quote from: Mirikon on <12-06-11/0622:54>
So the Corporate Court Matrix Authority has an entire division of gamers?
Who else would you get? A bunch of nerds that know how to work together and know each others strategies and habits intricately due to years of experience with potential situations under a variety of conflicts ranging from Stone-Age to Star-Age and everything in between?
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <12-08-11/1908:16>: Quote from: Sichr on <08-18-11/1449:43>
well, but why not Resonance?

Have any of you thought that Resonance (and Dissonance) is the way that magic interacts with electronics? Or that magic has already been a component of an AI's creation?
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-08-11/1941:35>: Quote from: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <12-08-11/1908:16>
Quote from: Sichr on <08-18-11/1449:43>
well, but why not Resonance?

Have any of you thought that Resonance (and Dissonance) is the way that magic interacts with electronics? Or that magic has already been a component of an AI's creation?

Channeling Plan 9 are we?
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: CanRay on <12-08-11/1944:24>: Quote from: RelentlessImp on <12-08-11/1941:35>
Quote from: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <12-08-11/1908:16>
Quote from: Sichr on <08-18-11/1449:43>
well, but why not Resonance?
Have any of you thought that Resonance (and Dissonance) is the way that magic interacts with electronics? Or that magic has already been a component of an AI's creation?
Channeling Plan 9 are we?
No, you see, I have all the proof in there! *Opens fifteen locks on a container ship that has all the walls slathered with pictures and handwritten notes, with cotton yarn stretching everywhere in various colours* See, it makes sense now!!!
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-08-11/1953:25>: Quote from: CanRay on <12-08-11/1944:24>
Quote from: RelentlessImp on <12-08-11/1941:35>
Quote from: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <12-08-11/1908:16>
Quote from: Sichr on <08-18-11/1449:43>
well, but why not Resonance?
Have any of you thought that Resonance (and Dissonance) is the way that magic interacts with electronics? Or that magic has already been a component of an AI's creation?
Channeling Plan 9 are we?
No, you see, I have all the proof in there! *Opens fifteen locks on a container ship that has all the walls slathered with pictures and handwritten notes, with cotton yarn stretching everywhere in various colours* See, it makes sense now!!!

But what's with the oni girl chained up in the corner?
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: CanRay on <12-08-11/1954:50>: She is one of the key pieces of the puzzle! And physical proof that I'm right! If you want to help me feed her, the stick is over there.

She bites. Hard.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-08-11/1956:18>: Still doesn't explain the whips and chains under the notes right above her head...
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: CanRay on <12-08-11/1957:56>: Quote from: RelentlessImp on <12-08-11/1956:18>
Still doesn't explain the whips and chains under the notes right above her head...
Typical Torture techniques don't work, so I use alternative techniques. I REMOVE torture from the equation after they've become accustomed to it!
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Mirikon on <12-08-11/2043:45>: But why does she have "Save the cheerleader, save the world," tattooed on her chest?
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-08-11/2047:08>: Quote from: Mirikon on <12-08-11/2043:45>
But why does she have "Save the cheerleader, save the world," tattooed on her chest?

Because the old vidshow "Heroes" plays majorly in the conspiracy! I've seen the light! I understand now. CanRay has it all figured out.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: CanRay on <12-08-11/2047:56>: Quote from: Mirikon on <12-08-11/2043:45>
But why does she have "Save the cheerleader, save the world," tattooed on her chest?
She came that way. It's part of the code that unlocks the secondary personality in her head... Bah! It's all written up there on the walls, people! THE WALLS!

Let me guess, you're all Iconoliterate only, huh?
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Mirikon on <12-08-11/2052:42>: Um, CanRay, all you put on the walls are copies of old Archie comic strips...
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-08-11/2055:49>: Quote from: Mirikon on <12-08-11/2052:42>
Um, CanRay, all you put on the walls are copies of old Archie comic strips...
Don't you see yet?! All things in this heaven and earth were predicted years ago. Secret messages encoded into the text - even the marriage scene is a warning! Taken together and using the correct cipher, these fifteen pages translate to:

[REDACTED] chummer, drek the [REDACTED] [REDACTED].

...Huh. Damn filters...
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: CanRay on <12-08-11/2058:17>: Quote from: Mirikon on <12-08-11/2052:42>
Um, CanRay, all you put on the walls are copies of old Archie comic strips...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! They got to my files! The bastards... Years of work... Years...

Ha... HA HA... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Back-ups! I have BACK-UPS!!! They will never have been able to get at those!!!
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-08-11/2104:27>: Quote from: CanRay on <12-08-11/2058:17>
Quote from: Mirikon on <12-08-11/2052:42>
Um, CanRay, all you put on the walls are copies of old Archie comic strips...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! They got to my files! The bastards... Years of work... Years...

Ha... HA HA... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Back-ups! I have BACK-UPS!!! They will never have been able to get at those!!!

Oh, so I'm just psychotic. Well, that makes me feel better. At least it means I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: Mirikon on <12-09-11/0741:38>: Quote from: CanRay on <12-08-11/2058:17>
Quote from: Mirikon on <12-08-11/2052:42>
Um, CanRay, all you put on the walls are copies of old Archie comic strips...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! They got to my files! The bastards... Years of work... Years...

Ha... HA HA... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Back-ups! I have BACK-UPS!!! They will never have been able to get at those!!!

CanRay, those aren't backups. Those are two hundred CDs of "Baby Got Back".
Title: Re: Awakened AI?
Post by: CanRay on <12-09-11/0901:02>: Quote from: Mirikon on <12-09-11/0741:38>
Quote from: CanRay on <12-08-11/2058:17>
Quote from: Mirikon on <12-08-11/2052:42>
Um, CanRay, all you put on the walls are copies of old Archie comic strips...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! They got to my files! The bastards... Years of work... Years...

Ha... HA HA... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Back-ups! I have BACK-UPS!!! They will never have been able to get at those!!!
CanRay, those aren't backups. Those are two hundred CDs of "Baby Got Back".
That's just the labels I put on...

...

...

My back-ups. :'(