Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Lagernoggin on <06-06-11/1100:00>
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New GM; wondering if I’m missing something.
I have a group of new PCs (and new players) headed into the Redmond Barrens (Squatter’s Mall) at night (time constraints), following clues. Some of the obstacles/events I thought might come into play were: Devil Rats, low force (2-3) Roaches, small time gangs protecting turf, and Ghouls. Then I actually read about Ghouls…
Tell me if I understand this correctly:
HMHVV III
Vector: Contact
Speed: 1 day (10)
Penetration: -6
Power: 8
Nature: Retroviral
Effect: Pain (Agony?), Nausea, Essence Loss, Transformation
A PC gets attacked and injured in melee by a ghoul at 20:00 4/1/72. Nothing obvious happens.
At 20:00 4/2/72 he rolls Body (8 ). (If he was uninjured in melee or otherwise touched the ghoul he adds the chemical rating of any armor or suit -6 (for HMHVV III penetration) for his first roll only?) Each hit on this roll reduces the Power by one (= PP or Previous Power). If he doesn’t reduce the Power to 0 he loses 0.1 Essence. If he doesn’t reduce the Power to his Body rating or less he suffers from Nausea. If he doesn’t reduce the Power to his Willpower he suffers from Agony.
At 20:00 4/3/72 he rolls Body (PP + 8 ). Each hit on this roll reduces the Power by one (providing a new PP). If he doesn’t reduce the Power to 0 he loses 0.1 Essence. If he doesn’t reduce the Power to his Body rating or less he suffers from Nausea. If he doesn’t reduce the Power to his Willpower he suffers from Agony.
At 20:00 4/4/72 he rolls Body (PP + 8 ). Each hit on this roll reduces the Power by one. If he doesn’t reduce the Power to 0 he loses 0.1 Essence. If he doesn’t reduce the Power to his Body rating or less he suffers from Nausea. If he doesn’t reduce the Power to his Willpower he suffers from Agony.
This happens every day for 10 days at 20:00 until the final roll (the (10) in the Speed attribute) on 4/10/72.
After 4/10/72, if he is still alive and untransformed (Ha!), he rolls Body (PP-PH (PH = Previous Hits) every day at 20:00 until he reduces the Previous Power to 0.
If at any time his Essence is reduced to 0 he dies. If at any time his Essence is reduced a total of 1.0 by this disease he transforms into a ghoul and takes the Infected (Ghoul) Quality.
He may spend Edge on his rolls. He may use antivirals but they will not help him because their max Rating is 6 and the Penetration of the disease is -6. He may receive a Cure Disease spell at -6 to the hits rolled. He may receive the Increase Body spell just before 20:00 to increase his Body up to his augmented maximum during his Disease Resistance roll. Can he use Zeta-Interferon before the first Disease Resistance test (and every 24 hrs for the next 10 days before 20:00) to stop the disease, or at any point after a Disease Resistance test to reduce the disease from Power 8 to Power 4?
Doesn’t this mean that with a Body of 15 (max augmented troll body), counting every 3rd dice as a hit, on day 10 he will have failed every roll and the Power will be 35 and the character will have lost 1.0 essence? Zeta-Interferon will save this character, and has a 50-50 chance (on average) of saving a character with a body of 12. If you are not an ork or troll whose emphasis is Body, you are screwed. As above, with Max Augmented human body (9) without Z-I on day 10 you transform (or die) and the disease is at power 53(!!); with Z-I it is at power 17
I’ve read that Ghouls are not uncommon in the barrens and seen it mentioned that some GMs throw them out when the game slows to add a fight for some excitement. These do not seem like opponents that should just be dropped in to a game to watch bullets fly, because it seems like if you go against these guys, you’re gonna become a ghoul, or die if you’ve had a lot of augmentations (low essence). This seems like an opponent that would fundamentally transform the game from a story POV 24 hrs after they were dropped in, especially against new PCs (not to mention new players).
Is there something I’m missing here? Something I’ve misunderstood?
Questions, corrections, comments, advice, opinions?
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They're a real bitch, they are... ;)
If the runners can prepare before-hand, they can invest in these Armor modifications:
Chemical Protection: The application of water-resistant, nonporous, and impermeable materials helps protect the wearer against contact-vector chemical attacks (Toxin Protection, p. 254). For full body armor, this will also protect against inhalation-vector attacks.
Chemical Seal: Only available to full body armor, the chemical seal is an actual airtight environmental control that takes 1 Complex Action to implement. It provides complete protection against contact and inhalation vector chemicals, and has a built-in 1-hour air supply.
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by RAW its even Worse !!!
A PC gets attacked and injured in melee by a ghoul at 20:00 4/1/72. Nothing obvious happens.
the Vector is Contact !
(not Injection) so the victim only needs to be near the Ghoul
Ancient History ,one of the Former Writers/Freelancers wanted to change the Virus(write an Erratta), but He's not working for CGL anymore.
Ghoul and HMHVV is a Red Flag (Is that the right Word ? it makes me Mad) for Me. Oh, and Asamundo too !!
this States defies any Logic !!!
A Lot of Groups that I know of change the Krieger SStrain to
Vector Injection
Penetration: -4
Power 6
there are only 2 (3) Protections (if You know in Advance that You have to deal with Ghouls.Once in Contact its too Late) thats Nanites, a Biotechnical transformation and ....a Potion from(I only know it in German Feuerechsenblut)....Blood of the Fire Lizard (?)
all 3 are extremely rare and expensiveqFastjack
Chemical Protection is of no use
Krieger Strain is by RAW Penetration -6 so unless You don't "Invent" Chemical Protection 7
it doesn't help.
Chemical Sealing helps though :)
with a rare Dance
Medicineman
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the worst thing with becoming a Ghoul: paying off the karma cost for getting a new quality in play (=twice the racial BP (35?) cost for a ghoul)
best thing is to house rule it and change the stats to what medicineman said.
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@ Medicineman
I think the expression you're looking for is 'pet peeve' which means something that causes particular annoyance. 'Red flag' usually means: warning! danger! or stop!.
@ All
So, is Zeta-Interferon effective against HMHVV III or no?
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Ahh,OK
I just found
"Its like a Red Rag to a Bull "(thats what i meant :) )
but thats n Offtopic Dance
Medicineman
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To use the phrase someone else coined: "Drones go in first."
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That's why investing in an up-armored humvee with a gatling gun heavy machinegun on the roof might in some cases be a very wise investment.
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Here's an interesting (i.e. evil) idea. If it's spread by contact, do you, as a GM, factor blood splatter into the equation?
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iirc, the author of the chapter misunderstood the drug rules that they are based on. The vector should be injection, not contact.
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Here's an interesting (i.e. evil) idea. If it's spread by contact, do you, as a GM, factor blood splatter into the equation?
Even worse . . Kill some ghouls, puree them into fine mist, deploy blimp drone with insecticide dispenser weapon.
fill ghoul-puree into tanks, have drone fly over city of your choice. presto, 28 days later there is nothing left of metahumanity . .
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As a Ghoul player, my GM ignored the rules on it. We used common sense and treated it like a disease carried in liquid. If all I do is claw you, you're fine. Bite you or blood to blood, worry.
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As a Ghoul player, my GM ignored the rules on it. We used common sense and treated it like a disease carried in liquid. If all I do is claw you, you're fine. Bite you or blood to blood, worry.
Also, practice safe sex with a Ghoul. ;D
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Man, contact or injection vector, that's still a pretty nasty terrorist attack. Better hope you have Will Smith on hand.
The Infertile Infected trait means they have the genetic-mana-physiological traits of the Infected, but don't actually have the virus?
Is there info on how long the virus stays viable outside a host, or after the death of the host?
And just what does it look like under a microscope. Is there a way to astrally perceive through a microscope?
Probably not an electron microscope, unfortunately. Unless you...I don't know, got the backscatter directly, and had a crazy good spell to interpret it?
If it's a magical disease, is it affected by FAB III?
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It is a magical disease, and is affected by FAB.
That's why the genocide of Ghouls in Chicago was such a nasty thing, as well. And the free spirits. And every other dual-natured critter out there that was sentient, semi-sentient, or just plain mean.
On the bright side, they got the bugs. They think. Maybe. We hope.
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Aw, Hell...I wish I'd read this thread before I decided NOT to drop the 5,000 nuyen to seal my form-fit full body armor. :o
My guy only has a Chem Protection 2 rain coat and a gas mask to protect his very low Essence.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Aw, Hell...I wish I'd read this thread before I decided NOT to drop the 5,000 nuyen to seal my form-fit full body armor. :o
My guy only has a Chem Protection 2 rain coat and a gas mask to protect his very low Essence.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Old White-Eye:"Hello lunch/brother"
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[Luckily, for me, we don't start until tonight...]
Bad Wolf keys his Fixer/old war buddy on his comm:
"Tarot! You're a worthless, thieving old gypsy!"
Loyalty -1BP...transfer to Gear...¥5000...Seal armor...sell gas mask...buy some software with the change...
One Complex Action away from immunity! Woot!
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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that is untill your suit gets punctured!
one hole and the seal is compromised :(
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Drones can't get HMHVV, and you can drive them through the car wash when you're done. ;D
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Non-metahumans and those already infected can't get it either. Just make a group entirely comprised of shifters, vampires, etc. :D
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"Oh, so now my Pixie Way of the Warrior Adept doesn't sound like a bad idea, does it?" :P
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"Oh, so now my Pixie Way of the Warrior Adept doesn't sound like a bad idea, does it?" :P
Aw, drek. Out of slap patches...
Clap! Clap for Tinkerbell!!
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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"Oh, so now my Pixie Way of the Warrior Adept doesn't sound like a bad idea, does it?" :P
Your Pixie Adept should Team up with my surged Fomori Drake mystical Adept"Chainlink".
She is a little simple (being 1/2 her life the Daughter of a vietnamese Rice Farmer until she Surged and Awoke,then she was deported to a Shaolin Temple and "discovered" from Perianwyr)
but a fine Young "Wushu-Wujen"
with a Dance in the Ricefield
Medicineman
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Sorry, forgot to post the whole character concept:
"Oh, so now my 'Mossad-Trained Pixie Way of the Warrior Adept with Throwing Stars of David' doesn't sound like a bad idea, does it?"
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Well there's always the Mentat Cyberzombie Pixie, they could probably just figure out a cure...and terminate them regardless, because why not?
I mean
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Drones can't get HMHVV, and you can drive them through the car wash when you're done. ;D
Hang on, what would the infection change be for someone going borg?
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The Change upon Infection would be Death.
The CHANCE of Infection would be 0. Brain in a Jar, remember?
Even IF they get to the Brain Case and get it open enough to infect it . .
They are Ghouls, you are a squishy little Brain. Ghoul-Caviar at best . .
Dead meat at worst, because if they crack open the brain case, it's dead anyway.
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Drones can't get HMHVV, and you can drive them through the car wash when you're done. ;D
Hang on, what would the infection change be for someone going borg?
He didn't say anything about cyborgs, just drones.
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A (Cy)Borg is, basically, a drone with a squishy part in it . .
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Yeah, but the difference between "basically" and "exactly" is pretty big.
In any case, a cyborg should be pretty safe from ghouls. Ghouls sense the living mainly through hearing, smell, and astral perception. A cyborg sounds like a drone, all of its meat parts are sealed away so they won't smell, and you can't see it's aura. Ghouls have no reason to try and eat or infect one.
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Tho before they where introduced, going borg was, iirc, a reference to getting all cyberlimbs, as well as body and head.
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A (Cy)Borg is, basically, a drone with a squishy part in it . .
"OK, I know it's called a Doberman, but why is it barking?" "Well, you heard of Dog-Brain AIs, right? Well, I decided, why go digital when an analog system is that much more reliable?" "You mean, it's..." "Call him Spot."
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Now what happens if you take a Ghoul and cyborg it? Does it still need to eat?
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Now what happens if you take a Ghoul and cyborg it? Does it still need to eat?
Puré ;)
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Hey everyone,
I'm poking around at the SR4 20th Anniversary Edition and I can't see where you're seeing ghouls as being so nasty. Are these enhanced rules in another book, or am I missing something terribly obvious? The Infection trait mentions only working when reduced to 0 essence, and drain essence is done by something with that power. I'm not seeing the ghouls as having either infection or drain essence.
Are ghouls more meaner in one of the supplements, or am I really wrong somehow?
Thanks!
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It's further explained in runner's companion and augmentation. The Kreiger Strain of HMHVV is Contact vector so (depending on your GM) even brushing up against one might infect you.
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iirc, the author of that section have later expressed a mea culpa on misreading the disease rules that is the basis for the ghoul strain.
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Yeah, you should probably houserule HMHVV.
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Thanks guys,
I may do that, unless, are ghouls portrayed as that bad? Should it be that contagious?
If not, what about something like if a character takes Body x1.5 points of damage in a single attack or round, by a contact attack they need to make the resistance checks? I'm still new to the ruleset so that may be too much or not enough of a threat?
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When I make a ghoul character, I always love getting a few extra BPs from getting the Infertile Infection Negative Quality. During Intim checks, the poor sap doesn't know the ghoul is infertile... Muahahah!
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Thanks guys,
I may do that, unless, are ghouls portrayed as that bad? Should it be that contagious?
If not, what about something like if a character takes Body x1.5 points of damage in a single attack or round, by a contact attack they need to make the resistance checks? I'm still new to the ruleset so that may be too much or not enough of a threat?
If they were that bad (going near a ghoul = you are a ghoul, period, no save, do not pass go), there would literally be nothing but ghouls everywhere.
You should probably change it to (1) be Injection and (2) Have a sane power and penetration. I think someone posted the often-used corrected version earlier.
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I think someone posted the often-used corrected version earlier.
A Lot of Groups that I know of change the Krieger SStrain to
Vector Injection
Penetration: -4
Power 6
there are only 2 (3) Protections (if You know in Advance that You have to deal with Ghouls.Once in Contact its too Late) thats Nanites, a Biotechnical transformation and ....a Potion from(I only know it in German Feuerechsenblut)....Blood of the Fire Lizard (?)
all 3 are extremely rare and expensiveqFastjack
Chemical Protection is of no use
Krieger Strain is by RAW Penetration -6 so unless You don't "Invent" Chemical Protection 7
it doesn't help.
Chemical Sealing helps though :)
with a rare Dance
Medicineman
Here you go
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I think the "Blood of the Fire Lizard" thing you are referring to is called Rock Lizard Blood in English.
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I thought that was a drink they served at the Space Needle.
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"Oh, so now my 'Mossad-Trained Pixie Way of the Warrior Adept with Throwing Stars of David' doesn't sound like a bad idea, does it?"
I don't see how this is _ever_ a bad idea? ???
Basically a mini-flying NCIS-Ziva.... How could you go wrong? It's awesome! 8)
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"Oh, so now my 'Mossad-Trained Pixie Way of the Warrior Adept with Throwing Stars of David' doesn't sound like a bad idea, does it?"
I don't see how this is _ever_ a bad idea? ???
Basically a mini-flying NCIS-Ziva.... How could you go wrong? It's awesome! 8)
The only way it goes into "Bad Idea" territory is stereotyping Israelis as all being Super Spies/Special Forces.
Most are just folk. Who have military training. And experience in a support role in the military. (An army marches on it's paperwork these days...).
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The only way it goes into "Bad Idea" territory is stereotyping Israelis as all being Super Spies/Special Forces.
Most are just folk. Who have military training. And experience in a support role in the military. (An army marches on it's paperwork these days...).
What's impressive though, is that after any rocket/bomb attack, the Israelis onlookers have already performed trauma recovery (casualties removed from immediate scene, injured attended to and relocated to safe area, photographs taken of scene ready to be handed over to authorities etc) well before any official ambulances or emergency services have arrived.
It's mad, but it's amazing....
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Some things come with experience.
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Not the kind of experience I would wish on any country. Not knocking the IDF, just saying.
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Israel figured out a great way for airport security I wish the US would learn from (Rather than molesting people and putting them in microwave ovens.).
But, yeah, if you ever wonder about the country and how safe it feels, learn about the locks that Israeli doors have. Some of the designs I've seen... Well... I don't care how many ghouls are hunting for kosher meat, they ain't getting in!
Hey, I brought us back on topic! ;D
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:applauds: Well done, sir.
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Israel figured out a great way for airport security I wish the US would learn from (Rather than molesting people and putting them in microwave ovens.).
But, yeah, if you ever wonder about the country and how safe it feels, learn about the locks that Israeli doors have. Some of the designs I've seen... Well... I don't care how many ghouls are hunting for kosher meat, they ain't getting in!
Hey, I brought us back on topic! ;D
Interesting query: Halal/Kosher ghouls of the Muslim/Judaism variety.... How the %$#@! would that work?!
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Not sure about Halal, but for Kosher, you just need a Ghoul Rabbi and... ;D
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Not sure about Halal, but for Kosher, you just need a Ghoul Rabbi and... ;D
Nah, Kosher has more components to it that just a Rabbi. Seperate food preparations etc...very similar to Halal and basic Food Safety in a lot of respects
Seriously, you could have a Kosher ghoul deli! Serving the thinnest elf-slices you could ever want in a mouth-watering, fang-tastic ELT*.....
Elf, Lettuce and Tomato.
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And I thought the creation of "Sam's Surgery and Deli" was bad...
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Hmm, would the big servings be "dragon"-sized in SR?
"dragon-size that order"
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Hmm, would the big servings be "dragon"-sized in SR?
"dragon-size that order"
I'll take two Lofwyr blackmails, three Hestaby hustles and a Dead Dunkie to go...thanks...
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*shakes head* It'd be an Uncle Dunkie Special. I imagine there are still some people out there upset about Big Blue being wasted, even if he DID set it up himself... And don't forget the Ghostwalker Denver Scramble for breakfast.
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*shakes head* It'd be an Uncle Dunkie Special. I imagine there are still some people out there upset about Big Blue being wasted, even if he DID set it up himself... And don't forget the Ghostwalker Denver Scramble for breakfast.
FastJack for one. And Captain Chaos is just waiting to be taken off the bench and go on a roaring rampage of revenge, Matrix Style!
I've also mentioned "Q-Cola, the Feathered Dragon's Choice", which is a sugar cane-based cola from Aztechnology that has a larger caffeine kick than other colas on the market, while still being sweeter.
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I can't find this information on ghouls in the Core book. Can anyone tell me where's it listed?
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I can't find this information on ghouls in the Core book. Can anyone tell me where's it listed?
Runners' Companion sourcebook, under Alternate Character Concepts: Playing the Infected
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Awesome, thanks, Charybdis! If I use ghouls, I'll leave that out for now then, sticking only to the Core stuff.