Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: nojosecool on <05-26-11/0127:10>
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So a couple sessions back, I had one player that was daring me (through character actions, not OOC words) to impose consequences on him for his actions. We were playing Dawn of the Artifacts: Dusk, so if anyone is familiar with it you know we ended up in the feral city of Lagos almost immediately. One example of the goading was that he strangled a 7-year old kid who he caught picking the pocket of one of the team members. A local came up and told him to stop, and earned a headbutt for trying to help the child. This had been going on for a while, and I felt it was time to do something about it.
Just before the fateful incident, he said (and I quote), "We're going to be in trouble when we get back to a city with LAWS and LAW ENFORCEMENT." Keep this in mind, as it basically sums up all of his actions in Lagos up to this point.
Anyways, this was a side encounter of my own creation, so don't worry about spoilers. It has almost nothing to do with the actual adventure.
One of the hyper-perceptive adepts noticed a man dressed in rags walk past the team, paying a little too much attention to them (he caught a glimpse of glowing eyes also, indicating astral perception). He also remembered, thinking back, that he had seen this guy 3 or 4 times earlier that day, but he hadn't stood out until now. The team decided to covertly try to corner the guy and question him. He was a wily little shaman who ducked into a building, paid some guy a few Naira to walk out masked to look like the shaman, while the shaman walked away masked to look like the other guy. He gave them the slip.
*BEHIND THE SCENES* This guy wasn't supposed to be important, just curious. The group is comprised of almost all awakened characters, so I was just trying to remind them that it's a little weird for four white guys to be walking around Lagos, especially if 3 are awakened.
The group mage sent out a watcher spirit to find this guy, and shortly thereafter the team's boss told them not to worry too much about him. They headed back to the hotel. After a few hours, the watcher spirit found the curious shaman sitting in a rocking chair drinking a cup of cocoa in a shack not too far from the market. The boss told them to leave him alone (this isn't worth our time, we have more important things going on, etc.), but the belligerent player, a dwarf, wanted to go investigate. The boss said, "whatever, as long as some of you stay here with me and you don't stay out too late. Tomorrow is a big day and this isn't at the top of my priority list."
Eventually, the shaman saw the watcher spirit and banished it, then left the house. The mage went with the dwarf, sort of, but stayed at a bar in the market while the dwarf checked out the house. The dwarf tossed the place, which is understandable. There was nothing magical there, and all evidence suggested that the shaman probably slept there occasionally and kept his lodge and real gear somewhere else. What did the dwarf do then, you ask? He poured himself a cup of the guy's cocoa and sat in his rocking chair.
The rest of the team was doing other things at this point, so every once in a while I would ask "Is the dwarf still in the rocking chair?" The answer was always "Damn right." After two hours (in game) went by, he heard a booming voice demanding that he come outside. He slowly walked to the door, still holding the cocoa, and was greeted by 8 orks with AK-97's and shock batons standing in front of the shaman.
*BEHIND THE SCENES* The shaman realized he would probably lose a straight fight with this dwarf, so he brought in help. He bribed one of the local gangs to come throw the dwarf out of his house. He had been keeping an eye on the place by astrally projecting. The dwarf could not astrally perceive, so he had no idea.
The dwarf ran and jumped out a window to escape. After two turns, though, the orks caught up with the stumpy dwarf. They beat him unconscious and dragged him back to an abandoned warehouse. They, of course, took all the money he had on him. They ransomed the dwarf for 9000 Nuyen and his notoriety is now way up. He is now known in Lagos as the guy who strangled a child and got beaten senseless in the same day. The two events (both caught on cybereye recordings) make for a hell of a 2070 youtube-equivalent mashup. I think every Johnson they run into in Lagos will be calling him "Pinata."
All things considered, it was actually a really fun encounter. There was definitely a point when the player stopped having fun and realized he wasn't going to walk away from this one Scott-free. This player really is fun to play with, and he may have just been looking for the line, which is fine. However, I don't feel sorry for dragging his dwarf through the dirt for this one. I will say this, though... Since this happened, he's been much easier to play with.
The moral of the story is: Just because there isn't a recognized and legitimate law enforcement agency in place does not mean that there is no law. Gang-law is still law, and the consequences for crossing a gang are much less predictable and at least as perilous as for crossing, say, Lonestar.
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Hey Nojosecool,
I think that worked out pretty good. I've had similar problems with players thinking that since they're the heroes that means they should be able to walk out of any encounter at the end (even if its something as bad as random pyscho killing). I had a bad enough time with this in D&D where you're supposed to be the heroes! Luckily, I'll be undertaking Shadowrun without such players but the thought was still there and I can only imagine what they'd be like where you aren't supposed to be the good guy.
I think something like this worked out well because you showed a line without thrusting the mighty GM hand from the sky and crushing the life out of said bad player. Especially by giving the offending player a chance to escape. Some orks with Ak's walking up to the house is more believable then having it completely surrounded, and then also having heavy magic, tech, and anything else to stop him from fleeing. It was believable in what they brought to the table! And then he got a head-kickin', which is what someone should kind of expect when floating any shred of decency (not to mention then going to brag to the GM that he won't do anything about it, that's just BEGGIN' for something!).
The best part is you didn't kill his character! Its probably easier for the player to swallow then the Hand of GM coming down and squishing the PC, but also now he's got to live with the real game consequences of what he's done.
Pwned indeed!
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The moral of the story is: Just because there isn't a recognized and legitimate law enforcement agency in place does not mean that there is no law. Gang-law is still law, and the consequences for crossing a gang are much less predictable and at least as perilous as for crossing, say, Lonestar.
Nicely handled; I especially enjoyed the notoriety gained. I'm running a game set entirely in and around Lagos, and I am not as lenient as you are. Chocking a kid on the street in Ikeja would lead to Area Boys running in with AK-98s and the kid pulling a Cavalier Scout. In Mushin, it would be worse: a group of Awori gangers would probably tie you up and throw you in a pit for stoning if you broke Sharia.
I think something like this worked out well because you showed a line without thrusting the mighty GM hand from the sky and crushing the life out of said bad player. Especially by giving the offending player a chance to escape. Some orks with Ak's walking up to the house is more believable then having it completely surrounded, and then also having heavy magic, tech, and anything else to stop him from fleeing. It was believable in what they brought to the table!
Lagos is fairly heavy magic. Not many drones or heavy tech around. The Daughters of Yemaja are a gang of all awakened women who specialize in combat spells that do not appreciate the abuse of children and women.
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Could have been worse for the player. Could have had the Orks sell him to an organlegger to pay for the kid's medical bills if he didn't confirm that the kid was completely dead. (If a shaman or paramed can get to an unconscious dying character quick enough that char can be brought back pretty far from off the brink.
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Thanks guys. It was a lot of fun putting that one together on the fly. He almost spoon-fed me the perfect retaliation for his actions. It was one of those cases where everything was in exactly the right place at the right time.
I should clarify, he did not kill the kid, or even come close to killing him. He strangled him until he gave up some information about the guy who put him up to pickpocketing. Actually, now that I think about it, the kid he strangled wasn't even the pickpocket. Just a suspected accomplice, who basically got punished for daring to talk to the team while they got pickpocketed by someone else.
I kind of figured, in the relatively lawless streets of Lagos, any kind of organized retaliation would have taken longer than it would take for the characters to make a clean getaway. I seriously thought he would stop when the local came up and told him to stop acting like a psychopath in public, but players will surprise you every time.
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HardExit and his crew had a shoot out with some Area Boys in Lagos. A block later they were surrounded by angry kids with AK-97s. That is somewhere in Feral Cities.
It's nice when the players make the GM's job of kicking them when they are down easier.
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It good when done but not overdone. I've had 'heroes' case of a group here when GMing Missions.
My group decided to go openly against Johnson. They've all lived through this but it all ended up in replacing most of the players before the next run and much higher dropout rate in next one. So be careful about this. Sometime it's better to make a swift blow and eliminate one of the runners instead of pacifying entire team...
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Interesting solution, and totaly appropriate. I let my players know from moment-one that for every action both bood and bad, there will be reprocussions. In my games, rep is VERY important and will determine who will talk to you and what jobs you are approached for. And if you screw up and say, accidently hose an kid who happens to be the nephew of the locak Mafia Don....don't be supried if you get a visit from a bunch of guys namd Vinny and Tony packing a lot of hardware. And I also remind them that even they may perform the perfect run, they may still make enemies...you did just do a run AGAINST somone afterall and they may be seriously torked.
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That was pretty awesome.
Our group doesn't really have any belligerent players. Sometimes they fight amongst themselves and stuff like a loud obnoxious family but IC but when it comes down they defend each other.
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Thanks for the warning Sentinemodo. I appreciate the tips, and I think I will keep the notoriety penalty around 3 and keep it local to Lagos. Mostly, I want to have the locals make fun of the dwarf because it will be funny. They won't be in Lagos for more than the next 3 sessions, I'm pretty sure, so the group will feel the burn, but not be permanently scarred. We have a great group, and the main goal is making the game the most fun for everyone.
Our group is trying to look out for each other now, I think. It's hard to tell sometimes. I tried to help get them to give a crap about each other by introducing them through a shadowrun that puts them in trouble with the same people, but they still don't all seem like they're invested in each other. I guess that's the way of Shadowrun.
I guess they can treat each other however they want, but they can't go around treating everyone however they want. Dawn of the Artifacts is kind of nice in that I get to control an NPC that is their boss, is with them all the time, and follows a moral code. I can kind of gently keep them from acting too crazy most of the time, but sometimes...
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Interesting solution, and totaly appropriate. I let my players know from moment-one that for every action both bood and bad, there will be reprocussions. In my games, rep is VERY important and will determine who will talk to you and what jobs you are approached for. And if you screw up and say, accidently hose an kid who happens to be the nephew of the locak Mafia Don....don't be supried if you get a visit from a bunch of guys namd Vinny and Tony packing a lot of hardware. And I also remind them that even they may perform the perfect run, they may still make enemies...you did just do a run AGAINST somone afterall and they may be seriously torked.
I though it appropriate, I roleplayed it individually with each of them, gave them chance to fight (small one I admit). and it all ended up in their humiliation, reminding them of difference between seasoned fixer and a gang o fresh runners. But no one likes to be humiliated and you know how protective are players about their runners. They all expected that it will pan out good somehow and that fighting for the right cause will shield them. It didn't. And I feel bad about stripping them of the fun they had.
So make fun of the guy but see how he's taking that, if you find he had enough give him a chance to regain reputation and to be a star or kill the runner spectacular way and let him roll a knew one without the bad reputation weight
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So, what do you gusy do with people who are a-holes a lot (in game only) and are not afraid of death/beatings etc as they see your need of them playing as incentive to be a goof.
I have considered booting the guy, embarassing him etc but then the impact to teh rest of teh group is pretty high. It is suppose to be a free RPG no? Also, suppose to be fun.
Ideas?
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Has talking out of game helped?
If not, screw the bastard. His fun isn't more important than everyone else's.
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My approach would be to allow him to do something that completely sets the group back. Give him enough rope to hang himself with (kind of like I did with the dwarf). Let the group be the ones to tell him to quit being a jerk. It doesn't ruin the game to allow him (and the group that he is screwing) to reap the consequences of his actions. Even if the gaming session is ruined, it will be pretty clear who it was that ruined it.
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I've had a similar experience with my runners. It was during one the "down" sessions, no current mission, when they had free time to do what they want. Which is never good, but it is entertaining. The 3 runners, Catman, Rhinotroll, and Badgerdwarf, when asked what they want to do, Catman says, "I want to go to a ganger bar and pick a fight with the biggest A-hole there." So they went down into 6th Reicht turf, a sixth world neo-nazi gang, and went to one of the local watering holes. To say that it was a bar gives bars all around a bad name. This place was a warehouse that had been taken by the gang, add a couple tables made from crates and a bar made from some planks on top of some barrels and thats what this place was. Needless to say this was a SINless place.
They walk in, Catman leading they way like he owns the place, Badgerdwarf walking behind Catman, eyeing everything nervously, seeing what he can set on fire (he's addicted to fire). And Rhinotroll coming in last, he has frequented this place in the past and has a rep not to be messed with. Catman goes to the bar and loudely and rudely ask for a beer. The "bartender" gives him a dirty look and goes back to talking to another barfly. Well this really rubs the kitty's fur the wrong way. Rhinotroll goes to the bar and slams his hand on the bar, almost breaking it. This gets the barkeeps attention. He brings them a round of some sort of alchoholic drink.
With drinks in hand they turn and start stink eyeing the rest of the patrons. Finally Catman eye falls upon the "Biggest A-hole in the bar". A big burly orc surrounded by four human males and two human females. All clearly Sixth Reicht members. Catman and Badgerdwarf walk up to their table. BD goes around the table and starts pawing the two women, eliciting shrieks of disgust. While Catman goes to the four humans and starts talking shit. Rhinotroll is still at the bar watching all this. As expected a fight breaks out. All unarmed, which CM and BD are not skilled with. They start losing as they are outnumbered and out skilled. After several rounds, Rhinotroll gets bored watching and decides to join. He shoots his grapple hand at one the gangers head, misses, but hits the guy behind him. He drags the poor shmuck to him and stomps on his stomach with his foot anchor, dealing a lethal blow. Like sharks smelling blood this gets them all in a frenzy. Catman gets tired of fighting unarmed and pulls out his katana. With Rhinotroll fighting the humans, Catman jumps a table and cuts off the head of the big orc. As the dust settles, only the bartender and two others remain besides the runners. Badgerdwarf readies a malatov cocktail to throw at the survivers, but is talked out of it. But as soon as they get outside of the bar, BD firebombs a parked car outside. And the three make thier getaway into the night. Ideas on repurcussions?
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I think you handled that well
Long ago, editions away I had a player who was earning karma outside of the game, wrongly (which I was unaware of at the time), being rude, power playing, overshadowing the rest of the group, etc.
set a bounty on him.
didn't get the hint.
other players trying to take him out
didn't get the hint
ended up having his character put in a deep freeze for 10 years
he insisted on knowing when the character would be released
don't think he ever got the hint
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Well if the bartender is still alive....you've got one angry bartender deep in ganger territory. What if the gang sells out the runners, what if better yet, the runners get a job for or against a corp the gang has ties to. Suddenly lonestar could be showing up, or they are expected and outmatched. This could also earn them a negative rep, obviously the gangers will be keeping an eye out for them. Perhaps someone will put a bounty on them and they'll have a tough survival mission in addition to all of this. I'm not really great at GMing, but just some ideas.
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Ideas on repercussions?
The "random" car was undercover KE detectives. Now they're copkillers and everywhere they go they are being pursued or engaging KE SRT forces. This leads to them being shunned from runner hangouts as they bring too much heat and they'r too busy running and hiding to take jobs and make money. Plus, the bad rep.
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Oh noooo!! They were mean to nazis! Little chibi-Hitler is crying! CRYING!! :'(
Okay, seriously. This is like Blues Brothers. You beat up some neo-nazis, you have a bunch of annoying neo-nazis popping up at inconvenient times, or hassling your contacts, or messing with your doss. Overall rep-wise, they probably won't get the notoriety gain they would if they had messed with a less universally despised group, but they will still maybe have people be a tad more cautious about hiring them, or getting involved with them. In a few quarters, their rep might actually rise a bit.
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*edited* Ideas on repurcussions?
A lot, that car could have been the ride used by another Runner team, and you just somehow hosed their run in some way.
The headless orc, Undercover Cop. Simple enough. Or could have been the relative of some Corp muck-muck who was slumming, or again, the member of some other runner team. Or worse, he was a fixer of some kind. The "revenge" angle can always be fun.
Or, say the runner's fixer hears about this through several contacts, learns that a lot of people are ticked off, and now...said fixer decides to wash their hands of them, effectively leaving them out to dry. New fixers are less than willing to work with "amaturs" and thugs who bring far too much attnetion to themselves. Also, the only jobs they can get are either low paying gigs or suicide runs. Heck, it also leaves them open to be used as fall-guys for other runners or Johnsons because...who would care if someone like them went away?
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Whatever you do, try not to give the belligerent or otherwise undesirable players/characters more focus/energy than the PCs who do your game justice. Otherwise, you could be giving the bad players what they want but in a negative way while at the same time discouraging the great ones.
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GMing can be a lot like raising children, eh Goth Girl?
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It seems that way at times.
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<Climbing on the devil's soap box>
I get it. I do. Players come in and do kinda silly, or just plain fragged up things. As GMs we sometimes feel like we have a moral responsibility to take corrective actions. I just want to point out that this game is about having fun not about a moral journey, though it can be weaved in and be fun. More importantly consider what your shadow run generally includes; stealing, lying, manipulating people to your own advantage, killing, assault, organ legging, slavery, and things much much worse. Runners are generally the BAD GUYS.
As to the kid who was "just" a distraction for stealing, well realize these are resources you need to survive, this is Lagos. How many people has this kid helped rob who went from barely surviving to not being able to pay back that loan and now having to sell their sister or daughter into slavery or simply starved to death? I'm not saying that the runner gets a pass or that his actions are acceptable in anyway, but I know I have often made the mistake of punishing my players for doing "evil" things. In Lagos choking a thief in the street is probably one of the least horrible things going on at that moment in time.
When I am about to drop the hammer I stop to think... why am I doing this? Did they frag up or am I just feeling moral outrage, or annoyance? And I am not even saying punishing them for it is incorrect, just that it can be unfair and not fun. NOTE: I did not think what the initial poster did was unfair, it was pretty even handed compared to what I have seen, but not needed. As someone brought up it is sometimes better to pass along instead of rewarding the offender with extra attention.
The other common issue I take, not that any of you have demonstrated this, with corrective action is unreasonable response. First off can the victim gather resources to fight this because, lets face it, even today it is mostly a dog eat dog world. "Justice" doesn't just happen because people feel a moral obligation, especially in places like Lagos and the Barrens. Justice happens when a bigger fish wants to make a point, or the guy was a local hero and theres a community sense of outrage, or the guy can afford it, or he has dirt on someone who can make it happen. Not often just for some street kid who is a known thief. Even then do you want to take a moral position against a chrome monster with magical backup or will you pick the next regular guy that makes a similar mistake? This guy chokes children or decapitates guys in unarmed brawls. You wanna mess with that guy? That guy is going to kill you if you lose. Not beat you, not get your point, not learn a lesson, he is going to fragging kill you if you attack him.
When there is reason (the guy was actually an undercover Star agent who had his headware recovered before scavengers got there) to give response, bye all means it should be done. But be fair to the players always, you rely on them in your social contract as a GM to player to set up a situation where both parties are supposed to be having a good time. If a player or GM doesn't like whats going on he has the responsibility to talk to the players about it and let them know he isn't comfortable with that kind of play, same goes for the players. No player likes the scenario where that random dude you offed was actually a (Fed, Member of powerful corp X, Cop, Yak, etc.) just to punish you for being a dick. Of course if it was that way all along it is a different story.
<Off the devil's soap box>
Specifically about the Nazi gangers. Well assuming the gang has any real size or resources they can keep their ears to the ground trying to figure out where the players hang out. They can plan on hurting them or killing them or whatever in between. If they aren't powerful enough to cause the players a real problem you could have them use what resources they have to cause some minor problems, like breaking into their hideout or houses and smashing or stealing equipment, if they can find out that information. They had their reps trashed in a very public way and I think it is very justified that they try to get revenge. But if it would mean the crazy and obviously powerful runners would hunt them down in the end and kill them off, they might have to go for a more subtle revenge, that is if they are rational...neo-nazis... right. Maybe they track the PCs down and just bum rush them with a little support from the local chapter of the KKK.
And maybe they just take their beating, look a little for the PCs, but don't waste the rest of their lives trying to find them and move on to other things. After all life in the sprawl is rough, short and brutal. Not everyone can spend every waking moment hunting for some guys that jumped them during a bar fight. Some people have more important things to do, like try to survive.
Just my humble opinion
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Second that.
The point of game isn't to make it a morally enlightening experience. You can make it so if you play with children, but not when you're gaming with your chummers.
The point of a game is to have fun. If a player or GM isn't having it, it is a GM's fault.
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Thanks for the response, Doc. You bring up a lot of good points! I think there is some clarifying in my motives and the background story leading up to my original post. I appreciate your saying that my action was fair, but I aim to show that it was also necessary.
I want to clarify that I was not trying to enforce any kind of moral code or punish out of annoyance. The hammer came down because that guy was treating our gaming sessions as his personal venting sandbox where he would crap on all NPC's he encountered and expect to get away with it. When I had him beaten and ransomed, other players told me I did the right thing because he had been goading the GM for at least 3 sessions. Believe me, choking an 8 year old kid in the middle of a market, then squatting in a shaman's home was the tip of the iceberg. Also, I know the point you were getting at with the "helper kid", but I don't think there would be an air of indifference in a crowded African market where a foreigner (a white foreigner) is choking a local child in the open, no matter what the kid is suspected of. Plus, all that the locals tried to do there was say "hey, you should knock that off," (and someone recorded the thing) and the headbutts started flying. Again, that was only a small part of the goading.
I understand that in Shadowrun, PC's generally pursue selfish ends with horrible horrible means. This is what it is to be a bad guy, it makes for good roleplaying and a jolly good time, and it's integral with the whole cyberpunk setting. I don't disagree with you there. I think there is some confusion, however, between how a GM should treat a morally bankrupt character, and how a GM should treat a belligerent sociopath. Behavior such as, (metaphorically) pissing on almost all NPC's, starting fights and killing people in public places, choking children, etc. would cause serious problems in the real world, so I believe that NPC's retaliating to "check" the PCs when they start acting as though they are invincible and above consequences is not only reasonable, but necessary. Not doing so enables such actions from the PC, and makes for an unrealistic and obnoxious gaming session. Also, it leads to more goading later.
I guess the main point is that I'm seeing a big difference between a player playing a belligerent jackass, and a player playing an evil man. Calling down the thunder for the pure jackassery is not the same thing as calling down the thunder because a player is behaving immorally, and I was doing the former and not the latter. I believe the jackassery calls the thunder upon itself, and saying that the GM would be wrong in making NPCs retaliate appropriately effectively takes the GM out of the game. (I'm not saying that you said any such thing, I'm just trying to justify my actions) Similarly (as you were saying), a GM reaching out to enforce his/her idea of the good takes the players out of the story by railroading them too harshly. I don't think you were saying otherwise, I just think it was a miscommunication about what I did and why, which is why I wanted to clarify.
I do understand that there is a fine line to walk, though. You don't want to go overboard and outright punish your players. The bottom line is that we are all getting together to have a good time. For example, I'm not sure I'd go with the undercover KE car in the club parking lot. That seems excessive, like we're stretching realistic possibilities to punish the players. (I mean, what are the chances, right?) I think this last paragraph was at the core of the point you were trying to make, am I right?
Then again, some players treat Shadowrun like Grand Theft Auto, right down to beating grannies with a baseball bat. That kind of stuff should be dealt with appropriately, and a GM should feel no remorse at ending such sessions with a TPK.
Maybe my new signature line will be "This is not Grand Theft Auto, this is Shadowrun." Yep, it's decided.
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The hammer came down because that guy was treating our gaming sessions as his personal venting sandbox where he would crap on all NPC's he encountered and expect to get away with it.
Indeed - I have had that happen as well. It's generally because someone is at a bad spot in their life and they're venting OR they are just an arse. Either way deal with it honestly. The arse for me was a friend in a spot who took an enforced break from the game but we would go for coffee and chat about it.
If it is a bad spot in their life, maybe they can take a break and come back later. You can be their friend to talk to at their coffee shop but you are not their in game therapist - Unless the PC is paying the group $100 per hour per game session to be split between the GM and other players. In that case - game therapist yay!
If they are an arse, I wouldn't tolerate them. Regardless of GM'ing or not, when someone is in my home, I am the hostess. As hostess, I provide comfort to my guests through a home cooked meal (southern style - chicken and dumplings are the fave), comfortable seating for everyone along with a pleasant environment. If one guest is rude to the other(s), me, my pets or my home, the offending party is removed. That is my duty as hostess and I call it manners.
Anyhow, that is the opinion of someone who looks at GM'ing as part hosting.
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I absolutely agree with you GothGirl. If it was that bad, I would throw the person out too. It was right on the border, though... OOC he was polite, but his character was insufferable. However, that dealing with a character in real life has a possibility to cause more problems than it fixes. I have no problem separating the character from the player, and I'm afraid that enforcing a game break would have escalated my situation beyond my control. That would have been the next step, but I don't think we were quite there yet.
I only met this guy through shadowrun about a year ago, and we don't see each other for anything else. Forcing a game-break might have caused his friend to walk, too. It's possible that a real-life intervention would have led to us not seeing him again, and a game break would have definitely brought our current adventure to a pause since we couldn't carry on without him. There's a lot of times when an OOC intervention causes undue awkwardness. Just reminding PC's that the NPC's can and WILL stand up for themselves from time to time (and it will hurt when they do) is occasionally the better choice. It's hard enough finding shadowrun players in Milwaukee (let alone good ones who know the rules), so I chose the NPC retaliation in favor of a sit-down and chat. Really though, it worked. It's hard to argue with success!
This dude really is a nice guy. Once he realized that he had hijacked the adventure for about 90 minutes, and that nobody was amused, he felt bad. He went over his priorities in his head and started acting more cooperatively. Since then, he's been awesome to game with. His character is still a jerk, but he keeps it in context and is only a jerk when it's not likely to get the group a good ass-kicking. Although, he is still a jerk when it's not necessarily in the group's best interest! :P But that's just good roleplaying!
Thanks for the input GothGirl. It's always a pleasure!
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Just like any relationship, communication and honesty are key, as BGG said. When a character is being an problem my character talks to them to let them know there is a problem. If that doesn't work I talk to them player to player. After all generally these people are my friends. When I am on the other side of the GM screen I wait to see if the players take action. Funny thing is most time the players don't even consider it an option that they could ask the offending character to take a hike or even say something constructive to the other player about it. If nothing comes from the PC side I simply talk to the problem player. If they continues to be a problem I let them see the consequences of their actions. They inevitably do something that will draw down some real problems. I try to be as fair as possible, but most of us are only metahuman.
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Simple fix: Don't let players play evil or sociopath characters. I've been playing RPG's for a long time and I reached a point where I tell my players: You can be a dick, you can be a jerk, you can be an amoral hedonist...I don't care, but in the end you are the good guys. You may be anti-hero vigilantes, but in the end you're the good guys. I know that this is supposed to be a sandbox world, but at the same time we're telling stories. We're creating fantasy. Good fantasy has a lot of gray area, sure, but in the end you still have the good guys and the bad guys.
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Second that.
The point of game isn't to make it a morally enlightening experience. You can make it so if you play with children, but not when you're gaming with your chummers.
The point of a game is to have fun. If a player or GM isn't having it, it is a GM's fault.
True, I could care less what the character does IC if they are playing their character (not to be confused with being a jackass and pawning it off as such). My last group leaned towards the sociopath end of the spectrum, and that is fine. All I tell them is that there will be reprocussions for their actions. This is not me trying to correct them, but that there are honest in-game consiquences.
Like my previous example, you accidently hose a crimelords kin, there is a good chance you made an ememy. How they deal with this will determine if the problem is solved or made worse...and also gives ME as the GM more fodder for said adventure.
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Thanks Mystic, that's the point I was trying to make all along.
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Null sheen, chummer,
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every action has a reaction. Plus gangs do not forget.
My own story goes like this. I started a game with people who had never played shadowrun but seen my play in my last session. I had this adept who wanted to play so I let him in the game, thinking it would be good for the others to have an experienced runner with the group. He starts off good but then starts bringing his laptop to play WoW. Strike one. He then gets mad at me when I won't repeat mission objectives to him and tries to belittle me in front of the rest of the newer players. Strike two. Finally he gets mad when I won't explain how is adept powers work or when he can use them, so he takes to not paying attention or doing naughty thing with himself mid run. To punish this bad behavior I let him meet the angry side of a group of ghouls. Watching him critical fail every roll was the dice gods reward for putting up with his shit for 5 weeks.
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I have a player who is a little, well a lot risk averse and when action turns to consequences he turns tail and then gets up set when other players steal the glory even if they are bleeding but walking at the end of the fight. Its always a challenge especially when its the opposite of his mentor spirits world view.
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We were doing prep work for our new groups first campaign the other day and one of the new guys asked my brother what to expect from me. My brother laughed and said "As long as you don't act like a total jerk, everything is cool. Get out of line and one of two things will happen: Either you character will get a cow dropped on him from a passing cargo plane OR A twenty-ton snapping turtle will bite you in half...
It's been 10 years and he still remembers what happens when a player pisses me off lol