Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Mystic on <09-11-10/0917:29>
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OK Chumms, what say you we get to talking about one of my favorite subjects: GUNS.
No runner; be you Street Sam, merc, or spellslinger should be without one. So what is your favorite one(s), or what do you pack, and why? Power, style, or the fact you just dont have the yen for anything else. Let us know what you like and why.
And anyone else out there have a custome piece they want to share with the class? Show it here.
So to get the ball rolling.
Let me begin with my favorite handgun (s).
As a rule of thumb, I always have a side arm of some kind on me, and I don't bother with anything small. Call me crazy, but I have had a love affair with Ares Predators ever sense I started out in the biz. Ever since I got the origional model, I've kept the lastest generation of the line in my gunlocker, all the way to the current Pred IV. Reliable and tough, it will get the attention of anyone you're pointing it at. Even he origional is just as good in a fight today as it was many years ago, even without the bells and whistles like smartlink. When I'm working, it's my primary sidearm every time. Load it out with some APDS and you have a solid backup weapon or a great primary defensive weapon. In my opinion, it is the 1911 of it's day.
That being said, I also keep handy my father's old Warhawk handy. It's big, loud, and puts big holls in things. My dad kept it as his primary handgun for years until his death. I've only seen him use it once, and the way he pulled it and put a round into beetled out troll's head in just shy of a heartbeat still leaves me in awe to this day. And while the limited amount of ammo is somewhat of a disadvantage, the sheer damage potential is sometimes too good to pass up especially against big and or armored opponents. I have also found that because it's a revolver, the Warhawk good for quick loading "specialty" rounds on the fly, much like one can with a pump action shotgun shell.
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I've had many favorites through the years.
For the sociable faces, I like the Morrissey Élan, the Colt America light pistol for spellslingers/hackers, and the Manhunter for the sammies (sure, it doesn't fire as many rounds as the Predator, but that one point of recoil compensation can make the difference). If the runner's gotta be in the spotlight, they're carrying a Savalette Guardian, because it has form AND function. Usually the sammie will also have either an Ingram Smartgun or a Mossberg auto-shotgun for firefight situations. Snipers tend to carry the Walther MA-2100, just out of personal reliability. And, of course, the big troll gunner's always packin' a Panther.
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Honestly, that totally depends on the character:
A pretty green punk might buy any 5th hand gun as long as it looks like a real one. A professional killer might use any gun that is suitable for the job without preferences (because preferences would could lead to a profile and a profile could lead to death). A freaky adept might only used heavily customized version of a specific czech gun from a specific dwarfen gunsmith. An ork ganger might prefer guns that are big and loud. A Norm who just ended up in the Shadows might love the Predator, because it was mentioned so often in the latest Spy-Flick as a great and relieable weapon. An ex-soldier might prefer a dart-gun because he doesn't want a murder charge. etc.etc.etc.
As a player, I don't have any favorite weapon. Totaly depends on the characters, everything is possible.
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A custom pair of Deputies. Custom grips, improved cylinder, and freshly polished. Goes with my theme of a the wild west. Sure they don't have all the bells of the new guys but you show them to a ganger and pants will be full of shit. Its got a classic feel to them. Plus when you walk into a bar and they see six....eight shooters and hear spurs its mighty great.
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I'm playing a Gnome Shaman, with a SPAS-22. At least that was what she had until it was confiscated for evidence. It's not likely to be gotten back anytime soon.
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I'm playing a Gnome Shaman, with a SPAS-22. At least that was what she had until it was confiscated for evidence. It's not likely to be gotten back anytime soon.
Make sure you don't leave any evidence when they took it did you??
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Well right now my ownly slug thrower is an Ares Auto Cannon. Cause with Usda's size and mass he can deliver the very best. Or at least the best he could get. No seriously, We have a Sniper & a wildly over gunned Face. Then we have my daughters S&M (monofiber totin') Drow Elf. I had to have something that really was able to say, "Hello!" in every language! ;D :-*
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So many guns...
So. Much. LOVE.
My personal favorite at the moment is the Nitama Optimum II modified with GV2, electronic firing mechanism, endoscope, trigger removal, skinlink, and melee hardening. The weapon uses AP ammo as standard in the rifle barrel, and Shock Lock rounds in the underbarrel shotgun (for breaching).
I have been toying with the idea of getting an Auto-Assault 16 shotgun and modifying it for HV, extending the drum magazine, adding a smartlink and skinlink, and adding a sling/foregrip to that weapon as well. Shock Lock rounds seem the sensible choice here, also. Keeping a couple of drums of flechette seems prudent. Since it already uses a drum, increasing the capacity with a standard extension seems reasonable.
Lastly, converting the Ares Vigorous Assault Cannon to full auto, installing smartlink and skinlink, and belt feeding it while mounting it on a gyromount seemed like a good idea. Using AV cannon ammunition seemed like a prudent choice.
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I just knew that when I read the topic was "Trigger Talk" that The_Gun_Nut would have a post that read like an example from the customization chapter of Arsenal. LOL
Personally for a non gun loving character I usually choose a Manhunter, but for my gun bunnies a full suite of heavily mod customs is the norm. My players hated it when I got Arsenal.
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I'm playing a Gnome Shaman, with a SPAS-22. At least that was what she had until it was confiscated for evidence. It's not likely to be gotten back anytime soon.
When I do use a shotgun, I also prefer the SPAS. I generally do not use buckshot, I prefer the knockdown power of slugs. Combine that with the burst fire option, and you have an excellent takedown weapon for foes of all sizes and an excellent CQB weapon...kicks like a cybered mule though so make sure you have sufficient recoil comp.
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I'm playing a Gnome Shaman, with a SPAS-22. At least that was what she had until it was confiscated for evidence. It's not likely to be gotten back anytime soon.
Did you use that as weapon, or as a means to move away from the enemy really fast? ;D
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I'm playing a Gnome Shaman, with a SPAS-22. At least that was what she had until it was confiscated for evidence. It's not likely to be gotten back anytime soon.
Did you use that as weapon, or as a means to move away from the enemy really fast? ;D
Plus or minus the roller-blades?
8)
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I desperately, desperately want a high velocity Barrett Model 121 (Firing Modification - Large and High Velocity). Sure, you probably want to accessorise with Gas Vent III and a Gyro-Mount, but it's basically hilarious. Especially with APDS ammo - firing from surprise (as it's a sniper rifle you can do this from quite a long way away) you get up to 20P damage with -8AP before successes. Brilliant.
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Weapons can only take so many modifications. Since only fully automatic weapons can be converted to HV, one has to modify the Barret to full auto first (taking 4 of 6 "slots"), then modify it for HV (taking the remaining 2 slots). By doing this, it is not really a sniper rifle, and is now a HMG.
Which, of course, references a previous gripe I had with the damage codes of both the sniper rifle and HMG. It makes no sense that the sniper rifle does more damage than an HMG with a longer barrel and the same ammunition. Weapon accuracy is represented by both the range of the weapon and the proficiency of the shooter, it shouldn't get "bonus damage" simply by virtue of being a sniper rifle. For example, the Browning M2 has comparable range to many modern sniper rifles, and comparable accuracy.
Bumping the HMG damage up a point or two or dropping the sniper rifle down a point makes more sense, and it avoids ridiculous situations like the one mentioned, where someone makes a Vulcan cannon out of a single shot precision weapon.
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Rule of cool? Nah, doesn't really apply...
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Not having any real interest in real-world guns, this stuff simply doesn't bother me. I played Rolemaster a lot as a kid and so I've had my fill of realism over playability. I don't want Shadowrun to be a desperately true-to-life firearms simulator, I like the firearms rules how they are. But what happens at your table is your business.
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Favorite gun? Well I'm glad you asked. Right now it's this.
Modification 6 Ruger Super Warhawk
→ Simple Firing Selection Change
→ Melee Hardening
→ Increased Cylinder
→ Underbarrel Weapon: Ruger Super Warhawk
→ Shock Pad
6P –2AP SA 1RC 11cy
Two of those babies.
I think in a futuristic fantasy/scifi setting... applying modern realism can be great, but it can also be a lack of imagination, and it shouldn't be taken overboard.
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→ Underbarrel Weapon: Ruger Super Warhawk
Wait, what?
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It has twin barrels.
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The rules clearly state that you cant have an underbarrel weapon larger than the weapon. This is the same size. I think of it as a second smaller cylinder and a second barrel below the first. Gives it three extra shots, giving the Warhawk a respectable amount of ammo capacity when combined with the increased cylinder. With two Warhawks, now SA, I can fire four 6p AP-2 shots in a turn... legally and with normal ammo...
Flechette in these things would be scary as hell too.
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You can, by RAW, mount an underbarrel weapon on a PISTOL??
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It's the future and it's an alternate reality. Yep, The rules allow it. Normally modded pistols aren't this awesome, mind you.
Pistols can pretty much only mount pistols and tasers and little $#%@ like that.
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People didn't just do it in the future, history has plenty of examples of weapons with more than one barrel (yes, even pistols).
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You're right, of course. I can think of a few off the top of my head. Was just stating that shadowrun is 60 years into the future of an alternate reality. Things that are not possible in our modern world would be possible there.
Are there any guns in RL with more than one cylinder? That would be interesting
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Double barreled shotguns come to mind.
As for history, the one I can think of off the top of my head is the Le-Mat revolver. See it here http://www.genitron.com/P2Unique-Detail.asp?ID=22 (http://www.genitron.com/P2Unique-Detail.asp?ID=22). It has a 9 shot cylinder for the .44 caliber ammunition and a single .65 caliber barrel intended as a small shotgun. This was from the late 1800's.
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Freakin' awesome!!!
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History has hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of odd weaponry. The gun swords (I kid you not, someone actually made gun swords) and gun daggers are examples of this. There were even gun shields (shields with a gun in them, no kidding) produced at one time.
Remember, powder weapons are actually thousands of years old. It's only recently that technology has allowed them the premeire spot in the world's arsenals.
EDIT: Spelling, need a spellchecker.
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I just kinda closed my eyes and waved my hand over the pistol section of the arsenal and pointed at one blindly and wrote it down. Guns may as well be described to me in Greek. Me and projectile anything (in game AND out) should just stay away from each other. XD
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I tend to like to have both a good blade and a pistol. It's a classic combo for a reason.
A good alternative to normal projectiles: Pistol Crossbow
Load one of those babies up with narcoject-filled injection bolts and it's sweet dreams,...uh... sleeping person.
Unfortunately projectiles seem like a necessity in shadowrun unless you've got some serious armor, reaction, magic, or stealth. Even then really they are a good idea.
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I'm in the market for a heavy Combat armor for Usda! I'm a fighter at heart. So I like to have my Range weapon & close combat weapon in armor tough enough to take a Panther or two. So I can mop up the Red Shirts while the rest of the party handle the specialists.
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I tend to like to have both a good blade and a pistol. It's a classic combo for a reason.
A good alternative to normal projectiles: Pistol Crossbow
Load one of those babies up with narcoject-filled injection bolts and it's sweet dreams,...uh... sleeping person.
Unfortunately projectiles seem like a necessity in shadowrun unless you've got some serious armor, reaction, magic, or stealth. Even then really they are a good idea.
I will have to look into this pistol crossbow. Especially if it comes in poisoned varieties that will be entirely more my style...
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I tend to like to have both a good blade and a pistol. It's a classic combo for a reason.
A good alternative to normal projectiles: Pistol Crossbow
Load one of those babies up with narcoject-filled injection bolts and it's sweet dreams,...uh... sleeping person.
Unfortunately projectiles seem like a necessity in shadowrun unless you've got some serious armor, reaction, magic, or stealth. Even then really they are a good idea.
I will have to look into this pistol crossbow. Especially if it comes in poisoned varieties that will be entirely more my style...
I'm suprised you didn't go that route already. Being that you're making a "Drow" elf character.
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Actually, with DMSO and all, I'd expect the drow to be carrying an Ares S-III Super Squirt (SR4a, p319) loaded with Narcoject (SR4a, p255). The Squirt just has to contact your target to deliver the drug. Dart Pistols/Rifles still have to acquire 2 net hits to deliver their payload (they do have a -2 AP, though).
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The nice thing about crossbows though... options! Lots of ammo options for crossbows of all sizes. Ever seen someone get hit with an incendiary bolt?
Plus they are silent, much like the squirtgun.
I'll grab the list of Bolts. One sec.
Injection
Screamer
Explosive
Incendiary
Barbed
Hammerhead
Stick-n-Shock
Makes you kinda feel like green arrow. lol
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Poisons are just always more my thing than bullets and plain arrows. Hell. My abyssal thingymajigg still had a poisoned handcrossbow. If I could find a way to poison a bullet I would too! I want to still be able to make you too sick to fight or fall asleep with a non-fatal shot. In case I miss. Which will happen. A lot. My d6 are mad at me for taking such a long hiatus from tabletop war gaming.
And incendiary bolts just sound so unnecessarily painful. I love it.
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You can, by RAW, mount an underbarrel weapon on a PISTOL??
Yo, dawg, we heard ya like shooting, so we put a pistol in your pistol so you can shoot while ya shoot.
-karma
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You can, by RAW, mount an underbarrel weapon on a PISTOL??
Yo, dawg, we heard ya like shooting, so we put a pistol in your pistol so you can shoot while ya shoot.
-karma
Silly Xhibit is silly.
Though he did a song with Alice Cooper.
So he's the only rapper that has points in my book.
And can you seriously put a gun on your gun. o_0;;
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You can, by RAW, mount an underbarrel weapon on a PISTOL??
Yo, dawg, we heard ya like shooting, so we put a pistol in your pistol so you can shoot while ya shoot.
-karma
Silly Xhibit is silly.
Though he did a song with Alice Cooper.
So he's the only rapper that has points in my book.
And can you seriously put a gun on your gun. o_0;;
No (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmx6Q0YLH8A) MC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3w1_E1V46M) Frontalot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3w1_E1V46M) then? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FNz8ZsFxgM)
And I really hope so because that would be awesome.
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You can, by RAW, mount an underbarrel weapon on a PISTOL??
Yo, dawg, we heard ya like shooting, so we put a pistol in your pistol so you can shoot while ya shoot.
-karma
Silly Xhibit is silly.
Though he did a song with Alice Cooper.
So he's the only rapper that has points in my book.
And can you seriously put a gun on your gun. o_0;;
I don't even listen to Xhibit. I just found it amusing to watch him in that car-modification show.
And yes, you can in fact put a gun into another gun. The "Underbarrel Weapon" modification from Arsenal lets you alter any weapon so it fits in the Underbarrel slot of any other weapon. The only real restrictions are that the underbarrel weapon cannot be larger than the weapon you are mounting it to, and you cannot mount an underbarrel weapon to another underbarrel weapon. Your GM might also object to some combos.
-karma
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Poisons are just always more my thing than bullets and plain arrows. Hell. My abyssal thingymajigg still had a poisoned handcrossbow. If I could find a way to poison a bullet I would too! I want to still be able to make you too sick to fight or fall asleep with a non-fatal shot. In case I miss. Which will happen. A lot. My d6 are mad at me for taking such a long hiatus from tabletop war gaming.
And incendiary bolts just sound so unnecessarily painful. I love it.
Somebody call for a poison bullet? Pg. 32 Arsenal: Capsule Rounds! These suckers are kinda like paintballs, but can be filled with all kinds of nasty surprises.
And what is this? National laugh at the guy with a gun in his gun day? You wish you had a gun in your gun. >:( lol
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The nice thing about crossbows though... options! Lots of ammo options for crossbows of all sizes. Ever seen someone get hit with an incendiary bolt?
Plus they are silent, much like the squirtgun.
I'll grab the list of Bolts. One sec.
Injection
Screamer
Explosive
Incendiary
Barbed
Hammerhead
Stick-n-Shock
Makes you kinda feel like green arrow. lol
When there is a "boxing glove" arrow or bolt, then we will talk.
8)
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That's pretty much what a hammerhead is. ;D
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That's pretty much what a hammerhead is. ;D
Silence! Your logic will not destroy my nostalgee..nostilg...things from my past I love!!!
;D
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I don't usually play combat-oriented characters, so what I'm looking for is usually something low-profile and efficient.
I like the Raecor Sting : nonmetallic, really easy to conceal, and still a decent punch against someone not prepared for it. Or I like to go the legal way : carrying a taser (the Defiance EX Shocker), with it you can easily disable someone for a few rounds, allowing you to run away (or come up with something).
When I play a sammie, I tend to choose a reliable sidearme (the Predator, for instance), along with something with a little more punch (the Smartgun X, or even an Ares Alpha when things get messy). Grenades are always the way to go, there are so many of them, nearly every situation has a grenade to solve it ;D
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Flashbangs...for when you HAVE to ruin the party, and still have something to ransom later.
8)
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Low profile and efficient? I like my morrissey elans, with hidden gun arm slides and stick-n-shock ammo.
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I had an idea while at work (I get bored, and need to think of something) regarding grenade launchers. Take a few of the 6 shot pistol grenade launchers, and give them the crawling upgrade. This makes them micro-drones (essentially) with a Pilot of 1. Upgrade the Pilot program a little bit, stick in a Gunnery program, some Encryption, maybe some IC, a commlink, and a smartlink. Put in grenades of whatever flavor you wish.
Now, when you assault some stronghold, keep those drone 'links on hidden, and set them around the perimeter of the location. When you need a distraction or just a little extra firepower, call up your launchers and send target coordinates. If you need to, use a laser designator. BAM, instant mortar fire.
Another idea I had, a little more odd mind you, was to take the grenade launcher rifle, give it a drum magazine and convert it to full auto-fire. Just the thing when you need to suppress an area.
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You mean destroy an area. lol.
Wow. Both those sound really effective. I'd hate to go up against one of your characters, Gun Nut.
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My current character is based upon Michael Wesein from the TV show Burn Notice. He has a broad skill background and connections to intelligence agencies (in this case the CIA). He got dumped in Denver, so had to call in favors from a variety of low lifes and get himself some extra cash. He also has some impressive close combat abilities.
The character I've been cooking up, the one that is allergic to soy, is quite different. More of an arms specialist who could double as a fence or a fixer if he needed to. Haven't worked out every detail (no pen to paper, as it were) but I intend for him to be a CQB specialist, hence the assault rifle specialized for breaching and room-to-room combat.
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Burn Notice is one of my favorite shows. Joker is loosely based on a number of characters from various media.
Allergic to soy? Man, that's rough.
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I had a player try to run a character allegic to water.....in Seattle!
not a very well thought out idea
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Wow. That would seriously suck. It would require full body protection at all times outdoors and sometimes indoors. I've lived not far from there and alot of times there is alot of water just in the air alone. Not to mention it rains really often.
Anyways... Guuunnnss!!!!
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Yes, guns!
I am a master of the ancient fighting art "Kaching POW."
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Here is one to ponder:
If you put a self destruct in a gun loaded with High Explosive rounds will it make a small boom??
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One thing to remember with gun-totin' PCs is that multiple guns carried means multiple ammo types carried, which means more weight. Sure, options are nice, but there is a point when the PC is doing weightlifter impressions.
Waiting on the flames now . . .
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A Predator 4 with creamic components 3 and specially sealed ammo like the kind that comes with the Crusader.
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For a sneaky pistol, I've always had a soft spot for the Colt Government 2066 with Internal Silencer + Smartgun, and Easy Breakdown. Piecemeal pistols can beat millimeter wave scanners where ceramics can't, since the system compares shapes to a database. Also, -7 dice to hear the shot is pretty choice.
For a heavy slug tosser Pistol, I like the Ruger thunderbolt with a personalized grip and underbarrel weight. That means you can fire off 2 bursts with only -1 on the second shot. Not bad at 5P -1ap... in fact it's better than any machine pistol, except that the ammo capacity is kind of crap, so modding it up for Suppressive fire isn't on the table..
Personally though, I like automatics. High velocity automatics. There's just something awesome about spraying 4 guys in a single pass with 4 short bursts. Narrow narrow wide wide. Yes, have some.
Here's a slightly overmodded one... it doesn't even take any cybernetics to wield properly. Ares HVAR, add Auto-adjusting underbarrel weight, Shock Pad, and internal Gasvent 3 as normal mods. Overmod with Personalized grip at a shop. 10 points of Recoil compensation before you hit strength-assisted RC. That means you can fire 12-round full auto bursts with only -1 to the DP.
Or, since you want that +1 DV and -1 AP from a bigger AR, you could take an Ares Alpha, modify for High Velocity, add Auto-adjusting Underbarrel weight, and a barrel-mounted Gas-vent 3, then, once again, add the Personalized Grip in a Shop, and you've got 9 points of RC. -2 to the DP, but a step higher on damage, and you've got a grenade launcher to boot.
The P93 Praetor E naturally wants to be modified to the gills as well.
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I am sitting here looking at my Arsenal book and trying to get some more dmg out of my T-250 short barrel. what mods and acc. should i use??
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Well, the T-250 is technically a longarm with all the benefits and drawbacks which come from that. So, BF is out of the question as uncompensated recoil causes double penalties. Besides that, it would empty out the magazine in basically one go.
Standard choice for me would be to saw off the stock via the Sling mod. Now you've got a pistol-grip sawed off. Doing a barrel reduction for an additional -1 to the conceal drops its range by 80%, which is only a few meters at this point, and makes the minimum choke medium spread. Might not be a bad idea if you're really worried about keeping it hidden and don't really plan on using scatter-shot (80% of taser ranges? yikes.)
So far, you've spent 30¥ and have a 5mag shotty with -1(0) concealability. Weapon's still legal at this point.
A barrel-mounted silencer, while more conspicuous and not as effective as an internal one can let the gun be both legal and illegal as needed, but, since you're looking to maximize damage potential, you'll be using illegal loads anyway. Might as well drop the silencer into the barrel for that good -6 to hear. Throw on a personalized grip so you don't have to keep the sling on, and you're quick drawing a shotgun. Awesome. Then it's all about that standard Explosive load. Half the price of Ex-ex, with the only difference being the lack of -1AP, which is a pale cousin to the +1DV.
Really though, autofire is the only reliable way to increase a weapons DV output, and a small shotty isn't built for burst. Modding for BF would take up 4 slots. Adding an Additional Clip for a decent magazine capacity would take the remaining two slots and up the concealability by +2.
If maximizing concealability isn't an issue, then the Additional Clip mod could be a good choice for the first build with the silencer. Just do an external smartgun link or laser sight, and you've got the room for modding it. Now you've got a shotgun with +1 concealability that can have two different 5m loadouts, so you can have a pipe full of standard loads and a pipe full of wacky loads.
Also, because it came up earlier, here's some hip-hop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXgM9T4mFbQ) unlike any you've ever heard. Youtube's crappy compression can't handle it, though. It's too heavy.
Or, on the completely opposite side of the spectrum there's this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI3A_Mx0tMQ).
Music is rad.
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Well, the T-250 is technically a longarm with all the benefits and drawbacks which come from that. So, BF is out of the question as uncompensated recoil causes double penalties. Besides that, it would empty out the magazine in basically one go.
Standard choice for me would be to saw off the stock via the Sling mod. Now you've got a pistol-grip sawed off. Doing a barrel reduction for an additional -1 to the conceal drops its range by 80%, which is only a few meters at this point, and makes the minimum choke medium spread. Might not be a bad idea if you're really worried about keeping it hidden and don't really plan on using scatter-shot (80% of taser ranges? yikes.)
So far, you've spent 30¥ and have a 5mag shotty with -1(0) concealability. Weapon's still legal at this point.
A barrel-mounted silencer, while more conspicuous and not as effective as an internal one can let the gun be both legal and illegal as needed, but, since you're looking to maximize damage potential, you'll be using illegal loads anyway. Might as well drop the silencer into the barrel for that good -6 to hear. Throw on a personalized grip so you don't have to keep the sling on, and you're quick drawing a shotgun. Awesome. Then it's all about that standard explosive load. Half the price of Ex-ex, with the only difference being the lack of -1AP, which is a pale cousin to the +1DV.
Really though, autofire is the only reliable way to increase a weapons DV output, and a small shotty isn't built for burst. Modding for BF would take up 4 slots. Adding an Additional Clip for a decent magazine capacity would take the remaining two slots and up the concealability by +2. If maximizing concealability isn't an issue, then the Additional Clip mod could be a good choice for the build above. Just do an external smartgun link or laser sight, and you've got the room for modding it. Now you've got a shotgun with +1 concealability that can have two different 5m loadouts, so you can have a pipe full of standard loads and a pipe full of wacky loads.
Also, because it came up earlier, here's some hip-hop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXgM9T4mFbQ) unlike any you've ever heard. Youtube's crappy compression can't handle it, though. It's too heavy.
Or, on the completely opposite side of the spectrum there's this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI3A_Mx0tMQ).
Music is rad.
I am using the short barrel as a sawed-off shotgun. Concealabilty is important. I want to be able to to bring it out and waylay when its important.
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Does anyone else here hate the Cherry Blossom Storm? For some reason that particular weapon just rubs me the wrong way. The only time I have seen it used in an interesting way was when one of my PC's kept screaming Cherry Blossom Storm every time he used the gun. He is playing a slightly unbalanced Elven Combat Mage so it kind of makes sense.
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The YSF really doesn't work with the arsenal rules... or any of the rules.. but it's a fun gun if GMs let you do concept mods.
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The YSF is, in essence, a light pistol with a base damage code of 6P. What's not to love about that? 100 nuyen for a custom grip and you are able to double tap a 6P base damage pistol with no recoil. EX ammo and you go to 7P and AP 1. The only downside is you have a whole 10 shots before you have to spend 40 complex actions to reload the thing.
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Like Mystic, I love the Predator. Been using 'em since 2E. :) The 1911 is the perfect analogy.
My current PC is probably the first one not to pack a Predator. Instead, she attacks targets with their own weapons, stealing and scavenging them along the way, and discarding them when the job's done. (It's her Signature NQ.) She does carry throwing knives for emergencies, but that's all.
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Does anyone else here hate the Cherry Blossom Storm? For some reason that particular weapon just rubs me the wrong way. The only time I have seen it used in an interesting way was when one of my PC's kept screaming Cherry Blossom Storm every time he used the gun. He is playing a slightly unbalanced Elven Combat Mage so it kind of makes sense.
Here's a funny thing for you then. The Shadowrun weapon is based upon a REAL weapon. And it has a higher rate of fire than what they list for the pistol. Technically, if they wanted to closely approximate the real weapon, it would use mini-gun rules for rate-of-fire.
Seriously, check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DRmuljq9yw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DRmuljq9yw) and http://www.metalstorm.com/content/view/64/109/ (http://www.metalstorm.com/content/view/64/109/). The weapon system is ridiculously OP if it were fictional, hence your comment, but it is a real weapon. Which makes it cooler and a must have.
I honestly would love to have one, IRL.
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Does anyone else here hate the Cherry Blossom Storm? For some reason that particular weapon just rubs me the wrong way. The only time I have seen it used in an interesting way was when one of my PC's kept screaming Cherry Blossom Storm every time he used the gun. He is playing a slightly unbalanced Elven Combat Mage so it kind of makes sense.
Here's a funny thing for you then. The Shadowrun weapon is based upon a REAL weapon. And it has a higher rate of fire than what they list for the pistol. Technically, if they wanted to closely approximate the real weapon, it would use mini-gun rules for rate-of-fire.
Seriously, check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DRmuljq9yw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DRmuljq9yw) and http://www.metalstorm.com/content/view/64/109/ (http://www.metalstorm.com/content/view/64/109/). The weapon system is ridiculously OP if it were fictional, hence your comment, but it is a real weapon. Which makes it cooler and a must have.
I honestly would love to have one, IRL.
I know that it is based on the Metal Storm but that current weapon system is just a prototype that I really do not see as a viable alternative to traditionaly designed small arms. I personnally think that the YSF would be to bulky to conceal effectively. Anyway it is just my opinion.
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I've only owned one on one character and have yet to fire it honestly. I don't really see any problems with it, sure it holds alot of ammo and should probably be classified as a machine pistol but I don't see anything really unbalanced about it.
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I've only owned one on one character and have yet to fire it honestly. I don't really see any problems with it, sure it holds alot of ammo and should probably be classified as a machine pistol but I don't see anything really unbalanced about it.
It really is not unbalanced and the rules for it work. I just do not like it. It is a personal thing I guess. I mean everybody probably has something about 4th ed. Shadowrun that drives them nuts. Well, this is my thing which says something about the system. Namely that Shadowrun 4th is an excellent rpg. I mean if the only complaint I really have is about the aesthetics of one weapon... What else can you really say.
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Dual-wielding Cherry Blossom Storms? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKw3Yl_3Yxo#t=0m28s)
-k
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Dual-wielding Cherry Blossom Storms? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKw3Yl_3Yxo#t=0m28s)
-k
Arrggg! It burns us. lol :D
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Let's see, my Face is running with a Viper Slivergun. The logic? Anyone so blitzed out of their mind that he can't calm them down probably didn't think to wear armor. Anyone with the presence of mind to wear armor is going to be out of his league anyway. Its got an integral silencer, 5 points of recoil compensation (for when you just have to have two bursts in that one initiative pass) and Custom look 2. Might be fun to give it an under-barrel. . .well, anything really as long as its loaded with sitck'n'shock.
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The size of the real pistol (a few were made as prototypes) that the Cherry Blossom Storm is based upon is the same size as a larger caliber pistol (.44 mag to .50). It holds more ammunition, too. It has four barrels with 4 or 5 bullets in each one (16 to 20 rounds), IMS.
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Wound up using the CB Storm as my under barrel and I have to wonder, would it have four barrels of five shots or two barrels of ten shots? I opted for the latter. Fewer ammo types but more full three round bursts. Dual CB Storms both with underbarrel CB Storms (6 barrels, or four 10 shot barrels and four 5 shot barrels per hand) could make for a very versatile weapon load.
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By the fluff description it's 4 barrels with 5 shots each.
In the Shadowrun artwork they're displayed stacked vertically.
The real-life pistol the CBStorm is based off of, however, has four barrels arranged in a diamond.
-k
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SR4A p. 317 says that the Fubuki has a 10 (ml) × 4 load. Isn't that four barrels of 10 shots each?
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Yes. Each barrel would have 10 shots.
Since it is a light pistol, the caliber is likely small, which would allow more rounds to be stacked in a "standard" long barrel. (I have no idea what would be considered standard for a weapon like this.)
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One weapon I don't understand is the PSK-3 that collapsible pistol. It turns into a block of metal. What's the point? No one's going to let you bring a block of metal into anywhere secure.
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A custom pair of Deputies.
This just warms my heart. :)
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Here is one to ponder:
If you put a self destruct in a gun loaded with High Explosive rounds will it make a small boom??
Define "small" in this context.
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One weapon I don't understand is the PSK-3 that collapsible pistol. It turns into a block of metal. What's the point? No one's going to let you bring a block of metal into anywhere secure.
I think the trick is to hide it amongst other, perfectly legitimate blocks of metal that have something to do with your "official" job. You couldn't take it as carry-on, but perhaps you could sneak it into regular luggage.
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SR4A p. 317 says that the Fubuki has a 10 (ml) × 4 load. Isn't that four barrels of 10 shots each?
Standard YSF. Underbarrel Weapon Mount modification to a gun cuts the mounted guns ammo capacity by 50%.
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SR4A p. 317 says that the Fubuki has a 10 (ml) × 4 load. Isn't that four barrels of 10 shots each?
Standard YSF. Underbarrel Weapon Mount modification to a gun cuts the mounted guns ammo capacity by 50%.
Which can be either two full barrels or four half barrels depending on how you want to read it. I thought two barrels made more sense.
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Ah, that makes more sense now. I wasn't aware of the underbarrel rule.
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Weapons can only take so many modifications. Since only fully automatic weapons can be converted to HV, one has to modify the Barret to full auto first (taking 4 of 6 "slots"), then modify it for HV (taking the remaining 2 slots). By doing this, it is not really a sniper rifle, and is now a HMG.
Which, of course, references a previous gripe I had with the damage codes of both the sniper rifle and HMG. It makes no sense that the sniper rifle does more damage than an HMG with a longer barrel and the same ammunition. Weapon accuracy is represented by both the range of the weapon and the proficiency of the shooter, it shouldn't get "bonus damage" simply by virtue of being a sniper rifle. For example, the Browning M2 has comparable range to many modern sniper rifles, and comparable accuracy.
Bumping the HMG damage up a point or two or dropping the sniper rifle down a point makes more sense, and it avoids ridiculous situations like the one mentioned, where someone makes a Vulcan cannon out of a single shot precision weapon.
and considering that the M2 and the Barret use the exact same round that makes sense, and considering that a marine came up with the idea of a .50cal sniper rifle, is just icing on the cake.
my personal preference is the AS-7 with a customized load depending on the situation, (flechette for sewer work, EX-explosive for armored foes) a Salvette Guardian with EX explosive as a standard sidearm, and a silenced AP3 with standard rounds. Then again i tend to tailor my loadouts for the mission.
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"Smith & Wesson - the original point and click interface."
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My favorite weapon for when Things Get Loud is an Ingram White Knight with High Velocity mod and an underbarrel MGL-12 grenade launcher. Using a cyberarm gyromount.
And hey, both weapons key off the Heavy Weapon skill.
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Low profile and efficient? I like my morrissey elans, with hidden gun arm slides and stick-n-shock ammo.
Me too
My Sasha doesn't go anywhere without a pair of those, well ofcource she doesn't go anywhere without her pair of smartlinked Colt Government 2066:s with extended clips, internal silencers and level 1 custom looks on small-of-the-back holsters and her pair of smartlinked FN 5-7C with personalised grips, gas vent 3:s and level 1 custom looks on shoulder quick-draw holsters either if she can help it. ;)
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For "low profile" and what I call "casual cary", I tend to favor my old Browning Ultra-Power with two spare mags. Replaced the laser sight with a Smartlink II linked to my glasses and loaded with APDS. I like the firepower with the slim, easily consealable package. Sure, it's short on ammo compared to other weapons, but if you are carrying casual and need more than three maggs of ten rounds; chances are you're already royally fragged. Its not flashy, definately NOT state of the art, but I have a fondness for reliable things. All the high tech means squat if the iron dosen't go BANG when you pull the trigger.
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I have a salish military mage/sniper that's downright deadly with his 121.
Extended barrel, silencer, BF mode mod, commlink with signal 6 and eccm, tacnet and a nasty little sprite the TM loaned out to him with clear sight and a couple other programs. Usually uses AV or APDS (-8 AP total), but he has a full selection with him, including subsonic. And his scope is optical so spells are still an option. (you would not BELIEVE how much chaos you can cause at 1600 m away with just a magic fingers spell.. hehehe)
Lesee.. 1650 meters away? Short range, short burst...
For other work he has a M22A1, and tends to stick to SA mode just out of the habit of accuracy over firepower.
Are there others that are better at spellcasting or firearms? Of course. But drop a silence and invisibility spell, then then shoot? They'll never pinpoint where the shot came from.
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I really dislike the rules for the Subsonic mod. The reason weapons like sniper rifles (heck, all modern rifles and most pistols) have the power they do is because of the velocity of the bullet. This also directly affects range. If the round is now subsonic, then you have cut the power of the shot to a quarter of it's orginal potency. (KE=.5mv2, for those curious.)
I think it would be better if they just removed that option entirely instead of having the highly suspect rules currently present.
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No argument there. The only advantage subsonic have is what the rules give it, not what common sense dictates.
All the same, I still like pulling the 'impossible' shots with him. :) Ever see the movie where the sniper in it punches a hole in the wall to get the target, and usually go by the callsign 'god'? I forgot the name of the movie... but 'god'?
That's me.
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Navy SEALS. Bill Paxton
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I'd also point out that Clearsight is a drone AutoSoft, not something that a runner can use to boost his own skills.
Using Clearsight in a drone-modified rifle, the RIFLE is in autonomous mode doing the aiming, not you. Your personal skills and attributes do not add to the test. The rifle in autonomous mode can do a Sensor+Clearsight Active Targeting test to increase it's tests to hit that target, but that won't help YOUR tests.
Now, if you have a drone-modified rifle, you CAN do a Sensor+Perception roll to get the same boost to your subsequent firearm tests, but Clearsight is not added in.
In short, Clearsight = Drone Use Only, and only when the drone is in autonomous mode.
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I wasn't the one that picked what programs it has, though now that you mention the sensors + perception...
I presume with a tacnet on both the flyspy (and sprite) and in my own commlink, the sprite to roll it's clearsight + sensor to assist my own sensor + perception to lock onto the target.
Is that a reasonable assumption? It's a bit of a streatch, but for those times he absolutely has to hit...
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Well, if your GM is allowing it, sure, GM can houserule anything.
I suppose your GM could rule it to be a Teamwork Test, such that the Drone rolls it's Sensor+Clearsight test first, and you get to add it's net hits as bonus dice to your Perception test for Active Targeting.
But by standard SR4 rules Clearsight does not apply to your skill tests.
Drones have three operational modes: "Jumped In", or VR mode; "Remote Operation", or AR mode; and "Autonomous", which is when it's operating on it's own. When in VR or AR mode the drone's Pilot & Autosofts are more or less disabled, and you use YOUR skills plus either Command or Sensor.
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Currently my Gunslinger Adept is carrying two Ares Predators in hidden arm slots. She also keeps two Colt Manhunters on a quick draw holster. She prefers using the Ares, however, she uses the Manhunters because they are not smartlinked. My Ares are also modified with Gecko Grip. However, I plan on adding much much more to them.
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At the moment I'm making a face/thief kind of character. I read the SR4A to see what I wanted for him. For sneaky situations he's got a Government 2066 with easy breakdown, internal sound surpressor and a laser sight. It should be concealable enough to get trough most security stations and does not attract much attention. If though I do get unwanted attention there lays in the trunks of his car a nice toy! Its a M23 (because it looks like the good ol' M16) with a 100 round drum, gas vent 3, shockpad and foregrip.
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I know it had to be covered here, but i'm a big fan of those two Fabrique Nationale products - Five-SeveN Tactical, and P90. And i loved those toys even before watching SG-1 and Atlantis. They're light, efficient, customizable, handy, have a big magazine, and are suitable pick for a defensive weapon. Because most of the time my character would be offensive with Ligthning Bolts, and Manabolts. :P
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I still roll my eyes seeing Stargate soldiers being sent into frontline combat with personal defense weapons, though.
-k
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I still roll my eyes seeing Stargate soldiers being sent into frontline combat with personal defense weapons, though.
-k
Its SG, what you gonna do? Realism isn't really high on their list, mate.
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Everyone in the galaxy spoke English?
Um, ya.
Seriously, though, I have all 10 seasons of SG-1 and three of Atlantis. Love the series, tons of fun.
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Everyone in the galaxy spoke English?
They MacGyver'd a babel fish in Episode 0 of the first season*. Haven't you seen it?
*Roll your Charisma vs Con against mine =>11d6.hitsopen(5,6)=5 (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2766197/) (Spent a point of Edge to get three extra dice).
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Everyone in the galaxy spoke English?
Um, ya.
Seriously, though, I have all 10 seasons of SG-1 and three of Atlantis. Love the series, tons of fun.
There are more glaring errors, but that's TV for you ;)
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No argument there. The only advantage subsonic have is what the rules give it, not what common sense dictates.
All the same, I still like pulling the 'impossible' shots with him. :) Ever see the movie where the sniper in it punches a hole in the wall to get the target, and usually go by the callsign 'god'? I forgot the name of the movie... but 'god'?
That's me.
GOD is actually a navy/marine term. Long range snipers are called GODs. It stands for "Gun On Demand" and squads can call for GOD support similar to the way they might all in an air strike. Obviously not all squads have this support, but that's where the term comes from.
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No argument there. The only advantage subsonic have is what the rules give it, not what common sense dictates.
All the same, I still like pulling the 'impossible' shots with him. :) Ever see the movie where the sniper in it punches a hole in the wall to get the target, and usually go by the callsign 'god'? I forgot the name of the movie... but 'god'?
That's me.
GOD is actually a navy/marine term. Long range snipers are called GODs. It stands for "Gun On Demand" and squads can call for GOD support similar to the way they might all in an air strike. Obviously not all squads have this support, but that's where the term comes from.
He meant this movie by the way:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/Navy_seals_poster.jpg)
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I revise any previous opinions I had on personal sidearm choice. Given enemies without gasmasks, an MGL-6 with laes gas (and/or splash) grenades. Given opponents with gas masks and/or sealed armor, I need a teammate. Said teammate to carry a supersquirt with acid filled paintballs to break the seal. Sure, the grenades are 185-200ny a shot but they also drop anyone who can't make 10 hits on their toxin resistance.
Edit: Make that leal gas. If you need more than 90 minutes, you're doing something wrong.
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I still roll my eyes seeing Stargate soldiers being sent into frontline combat with personal defense weapons, though.
In Atlantis they had G36... Sometimes. ;P
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In the rulebook it says that you can't mount bigger weapons on a vehicle than a LMG. But somethin like a Hotspur should be able to handle that. I can understand that if your mounting weapons in a racing bike you can't get beyond SMGs, but an off-road truck should be able to haul a big MG.
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Balance issues probably. So you won't mount six panther cannons and a gauss rifle on your truck. :P
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Balance issues probably. So you won't mount six panther cannons and a gauss rifle on your truck. :P
But a single Chaingun or HMG should be doable ;)
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In the rulebook it says that you can't mount bigger weapons on a vehicle than a LMG. But somethin like a Hotspur should be able to handle that. I can understand that if your mounting weapons in a racing bike you can't get beyond SMGs, but an off-road truck should be able to haul a big MG.
Sure you can. You just need a vehicle Body rating of 6 or higher.
This does, in fact, mean though that an Otomo drone can technically by the numbers be fitted with a Aztechnology Itzcóatl Gauss Cannon in a reinforced mount.
Fortunately, we have GMs to mitigate this silliness.
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I suddenly want to see an Otomo drone fitted with one.
I'm not entirely sure why.
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Fortunately, we have GMs to mitigate this silliness.
You say silliness, I say fun. ;)
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Fortunately, we have GMs to mitigate this silliness.
You say silliness, I say fun. ;)
Silliness is relative. My current SR character is a pixie with a literal pink mohawk driving a human suit around.
:)
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Fortunately, we have GMs to mitigate this silliness.
You say silliness, I say fun. ;)
Silliness is relative. My current SR character is a pixie with a literal pink mohawk driving a human suit around.
:)
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That is freaking awesome ;D
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I still roll my eyes seeing Stargate soldiers being sent into frontline combat with personal defense weapons, though.
While it was designed as a defensive weapon, the P90 has largely escaped that niche. It's especially popular with special forces groups, who use it as an offensive weapon. And SG teams are largely small special forces units.
That said, I'm sure that the producers chose the P90 mainly because it's a sweet high tech piece.
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That said, I'm sure that the producers chose the P90 mainly because it's a sweet high tech piece.
And it's pratical to carry around, packs a punch, lets you easily give covering, or supressing fire, and has a lot of ammo for a PDW. :)
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That said, I'm sure that the producers chose the P90 mainly because it's a sweet high tech piece.
And it's pratical to carry around, packs a punch, lets you easily give covering, or supressing fire, and has a lot of ammo for a PDW. :)
50 Rounds shoould be enough for any person to protect his/her property ;D
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50 Rounds shoould be enough for any person to protect his/her property ;D
Like that data you just stole from that secret corporate facility. It's yours now. Finders keepers. :P
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I still roll my eyes seeing Stargate soldiers being sent into frontline combat with personal defense weapons, though.
While it was designed as a defensive weapon, the P90 has largely escaped that niche. It's especially popular with special forces groups, who use it as an offensive weapon. And SG teams are largely small special forces units.
That said, I'm sure that the producers chose the P90 mainly because it's a sweet high tech piece.
Speaking of a sweet tech piece of hardware what do you all think about the H&K MP-7? Might not have a 50 rds capacity but a 40 rds detachable box magazine is pretty cool. I fell in love with it when I saw the Baroness using it in the G.I. Joe live action movie.
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That one's nice too, but it lacks the usefullness of P90. I always thought it's more like an UZI. :P
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That one's nice too, but it lacks the usefullness of P90. I always thought it's more like an UZI. :P
Blasphemy! Get him to the stake :D I personally think that the MP series heavily outclass most 9mm SMGs. Compared to the 5.7x28 rounds in the P90 the difference is really marginal. The design is tested and proven; one's gotta love it.
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You can try, but it'll be tricky getting through the P90 Supressing Fire. ;P
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Actually the MP7 uses a more robust 4.6x30mm round not the 9mm. The round is armor percing so it is really nasty as well as effective against folks in kevlar. Might not have the range of an assualt rifle but it has the stopping power.
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Actually the MP7 uses a more robust 4.6x30mm round not the 9mm. The round is armor percing so it is really nasty as well as effective against folks in kevlar. Might not have the range of an assualt rifle but it has the stopping power.
I want this handgun for my birthday: CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow ;D
(http://www.kentaurzbrane.cz/images/sklady/Shadow_img.jpg)
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Actually the MP7 uses a more robust 4.6x30mm round not the 9mm. The round is armor percing so it is really nasty as well as effective against folks in kevlar. Might not have the range of an assualt rifle but it has the stopping power.
Well thats not so big an edge for MP7, as with a simple barrel change you can shoot these babies from any 9mm NATO gun (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/07/08/the-amazing-6-5x25mm-cbj/#comments)
Pistol caliber APDS-ammo for the win ;D
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Actually the MP7 uses a more robust 4.6x30mm round not the 9mm. The round is armor percing so it is really nasty as well as effective against folks in kevlar. Might not have the range of an assualt rifle but it has the stopping power.
I want this handgun for my birthday: CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow ;D
(http://www.kentaurzbrane.cz/images/sklady/Shadow_img.jpg)
In real life, I'll stick with my Springfield XD.45.
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Well thats not so big an edge for MP7, as with a simple barrel change you can shoot these babies from any 9mm NATO gun (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/07/08/the-amazing-6-5x25mm-cbj/#comments)
Pistol caliber APDS-ammo for the win ;D
I've said it before and I'll say it again...
Tungsten, you so crazy!
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Actually the MP7 uses a more robust 4.6x30mm round not the 9mm. The round is armor percing so it is really nasty as well as effective against folks in kevlar. Might not have the range of an assualt rifle but it has the stopping power.
I want this handgun for my birthday: CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow ;D
(http://www.kentaurzbrane.cz/images/sklady/Shadow_img.jpg)
In real life, I'll stick with my Springfield XD.45.
I rather have the CZ. It has 5 more rounds to the clip, it has 9mm rounds which makes training cheaper (want it for sporting purposes) and it is more accurate. I know you can get the XD in 9mm format, but that kind of defeats the point of its existance ;)
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Well, it's like I tell everyone who wants to learn to shoot: don't worry about caliber, worry about what feels good in your hand, and what you can hit with. Yes, the 9mm is very accruate and is what I origionally trained on in the academy (with a SIG P226), I found that after a bad run in with a very bad dude on soem bad things I wanted something with a bit more...oomph. And, statistically speaking, most gun battles take place at close range. So often, all one has to do is use point shooting. That and I just seem to do better with .45.
And the XD-9 is an EXCELLENT platform, great for consealed carry and rugged design, in my not-so humble opinion. 8)
Now, if another caliber works for you and the bullet goes where you want it when your booger hook pulls the bang-switch, excellent.
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Well, it's like I tell everyone who wants to learn to shoot: don't worry about caliber, worry about what feels good in your hand, and what you can hit with. Yes, the 9mm is very accruate and is what I origionally trained on in the academy (with a SIG P226), I found that after a bad run in with a very bad dude on soem bad things I wanted something with a bit more...oomph. And, statistically speaking, most gun battles take place at close range. So often, all one has to do is use point shooting. That and I just seem to do better with .45.
And the XD-9 is an EXCELLENT platform, great for consealed carry and rugged design, in my not-so humble opinion. 8)
Now, if another caliber works for you and the bullet goes where you want it when your booger hook pulls the bang-switch, excellent.
We have strict laws here so concealed carrying is a big no-no. We may only transport firearms in their appropriate bag/pouch and only to our home, shooting range or hunting grounds. If not hunting or sport shooting it needs to be in a safe (with your ammo in an other safe). So, as you can guess accuracy and pricepoint are really the two big selling points for any weapon. It has a great grip as well ;D
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A REAL shadowrunner in the sixth world.
High Tech Sniper (http://www.pidjin.net/2010/05/26/like-guns/)
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Well, it's like I tell everyone who wants to learn to shoot: don't worry about caliber, worry about what feels good in your hand, and what you can hit with. Yes, the 9mm is very accruate and is what I origionally trained on in the academy (with a SIG P226), I found that after a bad run in with a very bad dude on soem bad things I wanted something with a bit more...oomph. And, statistically speaking, most gun battles take place at close range. So often, all one has to do is use point shooting. That and I just seem to do better with .45.
And the XD-9 is an EXCELLENT platform, great for consealed carry and rugged design, in my not-so humble opinion. 8)
Now, if another caliber works for you and the bullet goes where you want it when your booger hook pulls the bang-switch, excellent.
We have strict laws here so concealed carrying is a big no-no. We may only transport firearms in their appropriate bag/pouch and only to our home, shooting range or hunting grounds. If not hunting or sport shooting it needs to be in a safe (with your ammo in an other safe). So, as you can guess accuracy and pricepoint are really the two big selling points for any weapon. It has a great grip as well ;D
I would guess so. My state has had consealed carry for a few years now and thanfully there have been next to no serious problems. Then again, I am an avid supporter of gun rights and love to shoot in general. I wont go any farther on THAT topic for respect for the rules regarding political discussions.
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A REAL shadowrunner in the sixth world.
High Tech Sniper (http://www.pidjin.net/2010/05/26/like-guns/)
And the sad thing is, in L.A. even the facebook part is true...
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Well, it's like I tell everyone who wants to learn to shoot: don't worry about caliber, worry about what feels good in your hand, and what you can hit with. Yes, the 9mm is very accruate and is what I origionally trained on in the academy (with a SIG P226), I found that after a bad run in with a very bad dude on soem bad things I wanted something with a bit more...oomph. And, statistically speaking, most gun battles take place at close range. So often, all one has to do is use point shooting. That and I just seem to do better with .45.
And the XD-9 is an EXCELLENT platform, great for consealed carry and rugged design, in my not-so humble opinion. 8)
Now, if another caliber works for you and the bullet goes where you want it when your booger hook pulls the bang-switch, excellent.
We have strict laws here so concealed carrying is a big no-no. We may only transport firearms in their appropriate bag/pouch and only to our home, shooting range or hunting grounds. If not hunting or sport shooting it needs to be in a safe (with your ammo in an other safe). So, as you can guess accuracy and pricepoint are really the two big selling points for any weapon. It has a great grip as well ;D
Where the heck do you live the Peoples Republic of Mass.????
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Well, it's like I tell everyone who wants to learn to shoot: don't worry about caliber, worry about what feels good in your hand, and what you can hit with. Yes, the 9mm is very accruate and is what I origionally trained on in the academy (with a SIG P226), I found that after a bad run in with a very bad dude on soem bad things I wanted something with a bit more...oomph. And, statistically speaking, most gun battles take place at close range. So often, all one has to do is use point shooting. That and I just seem to do better with .45.
And the XD-9 is an EXCELLENT platform, great for consealed carry and rugged design, in my not-so humble opinion. 8)
Now, if another caliber works for you and the bullet goes where you want it when your booger hook pulls the bang-switch, excellent.
We have strict laws here so concealed carrying is a big no-no. We may only transport firearms in their appropriate bag/pouch and only to our home, shooting range or hunting grounds. If not hunting or sport shooting it needs to be in a safe (with your ammo in an other safe). So, as you can guess accuracy and pricepoint are really the two big selling points for any weapon. It has a great grip as well ;D
Where the heck do you live the Peoples Republic of Mass.????
The Netherlands! We have nothing like the second amendment like the USA. Personally I don't mind the way it is over here, because when push comes to shove you can get a pistol or rifle.
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Well, it's like I tell everyone who wants to learn to shoot: don't worry about caliber, worry about what feels good in your hand, and what you can hit with. Yes, the 9mm is very accruate and is what I origionally trained on in the academy (with a SIG P226), I found that after a bad run in with a very bad dude on soem bad things I wanted something with a bit more...oomph. And, statistically speaking, most gun battles take place at close range. So often, all one has to do is use point shooting. That and I just seem to do better with .45.
And the XD-9 is an EXCELLENT platform, great for consealed carry and rugged design, in my not-so humble opinion. 8)
Now, if another caliber works for you and the bullet goes where you want it when your booger hook pulls the bang-switch, excellent.
We have strict laws here so concealed carrying is a big no-no. We may only transport firearms in their appropriate bag/pouch and only to our home, shooting range or hunting grounds. If not hunting or sport shooting it needs to be in a safe (with your ammo in an other safe). So, as you can guess accuracy and pricepoint are really the two big selling points for any weapon. It has a great grip as well ;D
Where the heck do you live the Peoples Republic of Mass.????
The Netherlands! We have nothing like the second amendment like the USA. Personally I don't mind the way it is over here, because when push comes to shove you can get a pistol or rifle.
Cool my Great Grandmother was from the Netherlands. I have never been over the pond to Europe but that is the one country I would like to visit. Just to see Amsterdam and try to find the house where she grew up.
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Well, it's like I tell everyone who wants to learn to shoot: don't worry about caliber, worry about what feels good in your hand, and what you can hit with. Yes, the 9mm is very accruate and is what I origionally trained on in the academy (with a SIG P226), I found that after a bad run in with a very bad dude on soem bad things I wanted something with a bit more...oomph. And, statistically speaking, most gun battles take place at close range. So often, all one has to do is use point shooting. That and I just seem to do better with .45.
And the XD-9 is an EXCELLENT platform, great for consealed carry and rugged design, in my not-so humble opinion. 8)
Now, if another caliber works for you and the bullet goes where you want it when your booger hook pulls the bang-switch, excellent.
We have strict laws here so concealed carrying is a big no-no. We may only transport firearms in their appropriate bag/pouch and only to our home, shooting range or hunting grounds. If not hunting or sport shooting it needs to be in a safe (with your ammo in an other safe). So, as you can guess accuracy and pricepoint are really the two big selling points for any weapon. It has a great grip as well ;D
Where the heck do you live the Peoples Republic of Mass.????
The Netherlands! We have nothing like the second amendment like the USA. Personally I don't mind the way it is over here, because when push comes to shove you can get a pistol or rifle.
Cool my Great Grandmother was from the Netherlands. I have never been over the pond to Europe but that is the one country I would like to visit. Just to see Amsterdam and try to find the house where she grew up.
The country is awesome. If you ever get over we can do a beer 8)
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You may not get guns, but you get legal pot... better trade if you ask me ;D
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You may not get guns, but you get legal pot... better trade if you ask me ;D
I don't know omae, cordite gets me as high as I wanna be :)
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*
PUBLIC SERVICE Goody-two-shoes ANNOUNCEMENT*
Hello everyone. With the holiday season for many of us already underway, many of us are already induldging in...holiday cheer. *snicker*. So please, remember that "holiday cheer" and firearms do NOT mix (unless you live in the deep south, the inner city....).
So please... from all of us at Trigger Talk have a happy and safe holidy season.
;D
....
Ok, they gone? Great, where's my 'nog, dammit.
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The one with the vodka or the pure stuff?
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The one with the vodka or the pure stuff?
Old family recipe. Add DJ or your perfered whiskey to your favorite reindeer glass and serve.
TA DA!!!
;D
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You may not get guns, but you get legal pot... better trade if you ask me ;D
I don't know omae, cordite gets me as high as I wanna be :)
I have to agree with Teyl. There is nothing in the world like sending a bunch of rounds down range. You do get a bit of a kick when you pull the trigger on a weapon.
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In my case it's not a good thing. The only time i could pull the trigger a few times my weight was below 50 kg. :P
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In my case it's not a good thing. The only time i could pull the trigger a few times my weight was below 50 kg. :P
what where you shooting chum?
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Some kind of rifle, Mosin-based i think. And Beretta 92 (just one shot). I'm seriously not built for that, even now, when i'm just 'a bit skinny'. My right wrist was once badly maimed, so i have some problems. And the kickback from the rifle dislodged my shoulder. :P
That was a few years ago, and i decided that i'll stick with the bow.
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Some kind of rifle, Mosin-based i think. And Beretta 92 (just one shot). I'm seriously not built for that, even now, when i'm just 'a bit skinny'. My right wrist was once badly maimed, so i have some problems. And the kickback from the rifle dislodged my shoulder. :P
That was a few years ago, and i decided that i'll stick with the bow.
I'm an archery fan as much as the next guy (taught it for several years in fact), but don't let wrist issues keep ya from the fun of gunsmoke in the air and a trigger under your finger. ;) Look into a .22 somewhere, they sell some pretty sweet ones. Ammo's dirt cheap, there's no real recoil to speak of, and I think you'll still have some fun with it.
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Probably now it would be easier, but i'm not a military geek, and firearms are strictly regulated in Poland. And the money you'd have to pay for a few rounds at a shooting range... Meh.
I'll just stick to a light reflex classic 30-lbs. A 'reenactment' type, not a modern bow.
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Some kind of rifle, Mosin-based i think. And Beretta 92 (just one shot). I'm seriously not built for that, even now, when i'm just 'a bit skinny'. My right wrist was once badly maimed, so i have some problems. And the kickback from the rifle dislodged my shoulder. :P
That was a few years ago, and i decided that i'll stick with the bow.
sounds like you should stick to magic then eh? ;)
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Yeah, pretty much. But i've been doing some rehab in the meantime, so i might be up to firing a few rounds now. It's just that i don't have any idea where, legally. And illegally? Nah, not my kind of fun.
And returning to the subject, i was surprised how neatly SR managed to describe bows. They fit, rules-wise, almost perfectly.
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Bows are cool and relatively silent. I really was never to impressed with them till I read Neuromancer. That body guard guy in the space station was nasty.
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Bows are awesome stealth weapons. They're quiet and able to inflict horrible damage. My group's adept loves the damn things.
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And with enough practice you can learn ballistic shooting. It's nice to hit the guy behind the dumpster without even leaving cover. And Bow plus high Archery skill, plus some ballistic AR help from programs, plus TacNet equals silent sniping over obstacles. :P
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And MRSI software (WAR!) lets you do extreme armor penetration with a bow.
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Green Arrow anyone:-)
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Green Arrow anyone:-)
More of a Hawkeye fan. 8)
On a related note, I have a question for everyone. As everyone knows, Im also a (semi)frequent poster on the BT forums. There, they have fan articles about various stuff...I'm debating on doing the same here, maybe highlighting a specific piece of gear, weapon, etc starting with things that go bang and maybe moving on to other things should it go well. Anyone be interested in such a thing?
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Green Arrow anyone:-)
More of a Hawkeye fan. 8)
On a related note, I have a question for everyone. As everyone knows, Im also a (semi)frequent poster on the BT forums. There, they have fan articles about various stuff...I'm debating on doing the same here, maybe highlighting a specific piece of gear, weapon, etc starting with things that go bang and maybe moving on to other things should it go well. Anyone be interested in such a thing?
I know I'd be interested!
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Hmmm... Me too. I even have an idea - I could re-make a 'squatter's guide to dirt cheap security' for SR.
Mmmm... Dusting off old stuff. :)
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I would be interested.
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Things that go bang? Things that go bang! Things that go BANG!
THINGS THAT GO BANG!!
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I assume that's a yes from Gun Nut.
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I'd be interested
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Ok, wiz. I'll start working up a list, do some research and see what I can get out. Not sure if the style will be IC or not...depends on how the first draft comes along.
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Things that go bang? Things that go bang! Things that go BANG!
THINGS THAT GO BANG!!
How about: THINGS GO BANG!!!! For those of us who like the judicious use of explosives ;D
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BWAH HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! BOOM!!!!
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Things that go fwwwwwwwppp........for those that like stealth
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Hmmm... Me too. I even have an idea - I could re-make a 'squatter's guide to dirt cheap security' for SR.
Mmmm... Dusting off old stuff. :)
I can't wait to read about this ;D
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It's in progress. Needs a lot of work, as it was pretty old and silly sometimes.
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Aside from the Sakura Fubuki has anyone seen anymore Metal Storm type weapon wright-ups?
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Not really. They're a niche-market probably. The bigger arms-market fish, like Ares probably have a few, and runners could use them, but they're not present in SR as far as i've read.
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I personally see them becoming popular with private security concerns, as it prevents their weapons from being utilized with non-standard ammunition. It would require anyone that possesses one to have a special security permit, as well. It means they would be less common on the street, so would stand out more.
"See Mr. Joe and Jane Citizen? Those guys obviously had stolen hardware, nothing to do with us!" would be the line if someone were caught committing a crime with the weapon.
As for military? The military uses tried and tested technology (read, older). Maybe they will use it 60 years from now, but for right now the normal cased ammunition/weapon is king.
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As for military? The military uses tried and tested technology (read, older).
Read: Cheaper. :)
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As for military? The military uses tried and tested technology (read, older).
Read: Cheaper. :)
That's why we jarheads have always done more with less - ever try to get a squid to sign off on gear for Marines? ;)
"Improvise,Adapt,Overcome" is our mantra for a reason ;)
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You always break it.
That's why you can't have nice things. :)
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You always break it.
That's why you can't have nice things. :)
You know, contrary to what you may hear - it was damned near impossible to break a M60, trust me I TRIED ;)
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hey now there is an idea reduce the reliability of some of the old style gun kind of like the gremlins disadds but build in to the object. I guess you could do that for knockoff items as well
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The This Old Drone PDF release introduced the vehicle traits of Obsolete and Obsolescent.
Might be good to develop something along those lines.
-k
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You can bet in 3rd world countries in the 6th world that folks are still using AK-47s or FN FALs. It would be neat to see the statistics for older weapons.
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That's why we jarheads have always done more with less - ever try to get a squid to sign off on gear for Marines? ;)
"Improvise,Adapt,Overcome" is our mantra for a reason ;)
semper fi brother. :)
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That's why we jarheads have always done more with less - ever try to get a squid to sign off on gear for Marines? ;)
"Improvise,Adapt,Overcome" is our mantra for a reason ;)
semper fi brother. :)
Semper Fi ;D
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OK here something I think is cool and possibly usable in the game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_AAC_Blackout_(7.62x35mm)
Basicly in the game you could use the Colt M23(?) with the damage code of the AK 97. They should be different but I don't know because I don't have the books near by.
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Basicly in the game you could use the Colt M23(?) with the damage code of the AK 97. They should be different but I don't know because I don't have the books near by.
Those have the same damage code in the 4th edition atleast, as the damage scale doesn't really have enought room to show damage difference between different AR calibers.
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Well, since War introduced the distinction between Assault Rifles and Battle Rifles, there is a difference, but it's not a huge one.
War also introduced High Power Chambering, so I'd either just go ahead and use those rules to simulate this product, or maybe just make it a simple +1 DV.
-k
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Well, since War introduced the distinction between Assault Rifles and Battle Rifles, there is a difference, but it's not a huge one.
War also introduced High Power Chambering, so I'd either just go ahead and use those rules to simulate this product, or maybe just make it a simple +1 DV.
-k
Battle rifles shoot battle rifle caliber bullets, so no there really isn't room in the damage levels to show difference between AR calibers(after all battle rifles do +1 damage compared to AR:s)
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The whole point of the linked weapon modification is to put a battle rifle caliber round into assault rifles. More or less.
-k
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The whole point of the linked weapon modification is to put a battle rifle caliber round into assault rifles. More or less.
7,62x35mm is definedly not battle rifle caliber ammo, heck it's smaller then what AK-47 shoots(7,62x39mm)
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Well, yeah, they went with that because they have the requirement of the round being able to fit in existing magazines.
But the idea is putting a bigger higher powered bullet in a weapon normally firing a smaller round.
So giving it battle rifle damage (+1 DV) isn't a bad compromise.
Or just use the High Powered Chambering rules.
-k
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Ok here are some products that may help in the game.
http://www.aimpoint.com/us/
http://www.elcan.com/
http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/index.php
http://www.laruetactical.com/
http://troyind.com/
http://www.magpul.com/
http://www.tac47industries.com/
http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/
Hopefully some of this stuff will help everyone get a better idea of how to tweek their gear.
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I have been toying with the idea of getting an Auto-Assault 16 shotgun and modifying it for HV, extending the drum magazine, adding a smartlink and skinlink, and adding a sling/foregrip to that weapon as well. Shock Lock rounds seem the sensible choice here, also. Keeping a couple of drums of flechette seems prudent. Since it already uses a drum, increasing the capacity with a standard extension seems reasonable.
Arsenal page 26, sidebar "Only submachine guns and assault rifles can be constructed as high-velocity weapons". How about an AA 16 with armor-piercing flechette rounds from War! ?
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Battle Rifles are a term for the old school weapons; FN FAL, HK G3, M14-which chamber 7.62x51mm Nato. A firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle: 1) It must be an individual weapon with provision to fire from the shoulder (i.e. a buttstock); 2) It must be capable of selective fire; 3) It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a battle rifle; 4) Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable magazine; 5) And it should at least have a firing range of 300 meters.
If you are looking for a distinction between, say 5.56mm and 7.62x51mm, I would use the rules in War! But, seriously, why? There is a reason weapons have evolved FROM battle rifles TOO assault rifles. Assualt rifles weigh less, the ammo weighes less and is smaller so you can carry more, and the average range of a military encounter is within 300m (less so for urban, i.e. shadowrun-like).
This seems more about damage and meta gaming, IMHO.
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I have been toying with the idea of getting an Auto-Assault 16 shotgun and modifying it for HV, extending the drum magazine, adding a smartlink and skinlink, and adding a sling/foregrip to that weapon as well. Shock Lock rounds seem the sensible choice here, also. Keeping a couple of drums of flechette seems prudent. Since it already uses a drum, increasing the capacity with a standard extension seems reasonable.
Arsenal page 26, sidebar "Only submachine guns and assault rifles can be constructed as high-velocity weapons". How about an AA 16 with armor-piercing flechette rounds from War! ?
The key text is highlighted by myself. Constructed typically means "by the manufacturer." Modified, OTOH, is entirely a different ball of wax. The sidebar is sitting next to, and referring to, the HV weapons listed nearby. The actual rules for modifying a weapon into an HV version of itself only states that FA weapons only. It does refer to the sidebar on pg. 26, but, again that is for construction. I would say modification is different, as it takes up modification "space" and costs a lot extra.
Also, it makes little sense that only SMG's and assault rifles are the only ones capable of being HV. Why not regular old machine guns, are they not special enough? MG's can be made with a higher ROF than an assault rifle, but SR simplifies this by using FA for everything capable for full auto-fire. Not a problem there (it simplifies bookkeeping), but it feels silly to limit the modification to just SMG's and AR's.
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My personal favorite gun right now belongs to an eccentric Dwarf Rigger who goes by the name Hambone. Hambone may be married to his drones, but his mistress is his beloved Bessie, a customized Ruger Super Warhawk.
You start with the Warhawk, then you fill up all six slots with Large Mod Firing Selection Change (to add Full Auto) and High Power Chambering from War (+2 DV, -1 AP). After that, you overmod it to give it a Custom Look, engraving the name 'Bessie' on the side of the barrel.
You now have an 8P, -3AP Revolver that can fire a Long Burst, emptying the cylinder in a single shot and jumping the damage to 13P before net hits. Of course, Hambone applies both his Foot Anchors (+2 recoil comp) and his Cyberarm Gyromount (+3) whenever he fires it, nicely negating the -5 recoil mod from full auto. It's a bitch to reload, but its worth it seeing the look on a ganger's face when you pull this massive mother of gun out of your cyber holster and splatter his chrome troll buddy all over the payment in a single shot.
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Worth every nuyen. ;D
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If you are looking for a distinction between, say 5.56mm and 7.62x51mm, I would use the rules in War! But, seriously, why? There is a reason weapons have evolved FROM battle rifles TOO assault rifles. Assualt rifles weigh less, the ammo weighes less and is smaller so you can carry more, and the average range of a military encounter is within 300m (less so for urban, i.e. shadowrun-like).
This seems more about damage and meta gaming, IMHO.
You don't think that the appearance of Trolls, Heavy combat armor, cyber armor and magical armor might make lots of people to re-think that move form battle rifles to assault rifles.
Because i sure as hell do, actually that's more or less already happening in real life and our body armors aren't anywhere near what you can get in SR.
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But, seriously, why? There is a reason weapons have evolved FROM battle rifles TOO assault rifles. Assualt rifles weigh less, the ammo weighes less and is smaller so you can carry more, and the average range of a military encounter is within 300m (less so for urban, i.e. shadowrun-like).
This seems more about damage and meta gaming, IMHO.
I'd point out that in the past few years, there has been a movement BACK to returning Battle Rifles to service, having at least one or two in each squad for longer range engagements or firefights where the ability to punch through light cover is important. The US has actually been taking old M-14s out of mothballs and re-issuing them.
The Assault Rifle was developed specifically for warfare involving troops operating in long patrols far afield from supply, making ammo capacity and weight a big issue. Additionally, as you mentioned the fights were taking place at closer ranges. In Vietnam and Korea especially the environment reduced visibility severely, with many fights being initiated at nearly point blank range as one or both sides virtually stumbled into each other.
The past few wars, troops have been in fairly close placement to supply areas, and on short patrols, making the weight and capacity issue much less of a problem. Fights have been occurring at longer ranges and with much more hard cover due to the urban environments. So a harder hitting larger caliber round is in order.
-k
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Sorry if this response seems waaaay late I was out in the sandbox away from wifi for a while
"Which, of course, references a previous gripe I had with the damage codes of both the sniper rifle and HMG. It makes no sense that the sniper rifle does more damage than an HMG with a longer barrel and the same ammunition. Weapon accuracy is represented by both the range of the weapon and the proficiency of the shooter, it shouldn't get "bonus damage" simply by virtue of being a sniper rifle. For example, the Browning M2 has comparable range to many modern sniper rifles, and comparable accuracy."
The_Gun_Nut
I gotta totally agree with the above statement, we took both the ma deuce (m2) and a barret out and the both did comperable dmg to various objects, the ma deuce just did it over and over w/out having to worry about reloading ;)
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Arsenal page 26, sidebar "Only submachine guns and assault rifles can be constructed as high-velocity weapons". How about an AA 16 with armor-piercing flechette rounds from War! ?
I feel obligated to point out, that in the core book in the gear section there is a FA capable shotgun. It's actually a favorite of mine. The Mossberg CMDT (P.319) uses a 10 round clip, and is listed as a SA/BF/FA shotgun. Also, I believe the high velocity weapons statement from above only applies to most of the standardized designs not to customized weaponry. (As I haven't found any rules in the customizing section in arsenal saying otherwise.) If that's wrong then it's a major typo that has killed almost killed me on a few occasions... :P
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I've got a good question about guns.(not a joke either) What kind of gun would a character with one arm use? I was thinking Fichetti Security 600 because of the high ammo storage(30 bullets) or some kind of shotgun thats sawed off, kind of like the roomsweeper because break action allows for you to reload in a holster. Provided you explain where the slugs are stored.
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I would think a pistol or machine pistol. A shotgun, even a semi-auto or automatic, may be too problematic to use. Of course, with smartlink and a gyro-arm for example, technology might be able to let the one armed man get away with more.
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What about the recoil on a machine pistol?
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Gas venting or custom grips reduce recoil fairly well, there. Just so long as the firer doesn't go crazy with full auto-fire. Burst fire is pretty much it.
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I think a one armed Human/Elf would do well with light pistols or the Ares Redline as he can't benefit from a double grip on the heavier firearms to offset holding it for long periods of time the Yamaha Sakura Fubuki sounds good in theory but it would be a nightmare to reload
The other Metatypes have more strength and endurance and would therefor use heavier weapons at their option.
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He is an ork
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He is an ork
Get to your Street Doc™ now! Quickly, before you get shot! ;D
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LOL why?
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Well, geez, a one-armed Ork in a world of cybered elves and trolls? They have two guns and you have one... ;)
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ahhhhhh, well don't worry about Palov(thats his name) hes crazy and a hacker anyway. He'll go into combat when he has to but I'm not going to be dumb. As you can see my gm and I sat down one on one for about four hours and just ran through everything that we could think of in the matrix and now we have no issues with it.
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you could look in to turning your stump in to a cybergun mount...
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My gm said that it adds story if I work to get the arm. In the ukraine I'm assuming its harder to get a cyber arm so while hes in north america he will be working to attain one.
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Nice story, theKernel!
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Thanks! I know I'm about to get off topic so I'm sincerly sorry to Trigger Talk but yea its fun to think of the looks he'll get with a nub because of the availability of cyber arms in the sixth world you know?
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Thanks! I know I'm about to get off topic so I'm sincerly sorry to Trigger Talk but yea its fun to think of the looks he'll get with a nub because of the availability of cyber arms in the sixth world you know?
Y'know, you can really work with that. The other 'runners start calling you "Backorder" Pavlov and stuff.
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Oooooh I like that. But to get back onnnn topic so I don't break the rules of the forum what gun should he start with until he gets his warez
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Well, just about any gun will do, as long as you have Smartlink on it (allows you to eject empty clips with a mental/visual command). That way, you just need to keep clips on a web/belt to slam into the gun during a firefight.
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Aright alright that'll work. If you wanna hear his story I could message it to you
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Less talky.
More bangbang.
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Well, just about any gun will do, as long as you have Smartlink on it (allows you to eject empty clips with a mental/visual command). That way, you just need to keep clips on a web/belt to slam into the gun during a firefight.
Or you(theKernel) could ask your GM if he would allow you to use a Hidden Arm Slide for inserting a new mag in to the gun.
Or you could just go the Neo route and carry an arsenal of cheap guns and just do a New York reload(drop the one you holding and pull out a new one) when ever a gun runs out of ammo.
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Well, just about any gun will do, as long as you have Smartlink on it (allows you to eject empty clips with a mental/visual command). That way, you just need to keep clips on a web/belt to slam into the gun during a firefight.
Or you(theKernel) could ask your GM if he would allow you to use a Hidden Arm Slide for inserting a new mag in to the gun.
Or you could just go the Neo route and carry an arsenal of cheap guns and just do a New York reload(drop the one you holding and pull out a new one) when ever a gun runs out of ammo.
LOL I can just see the guy groping guns everywhere but I think that would leave clues for the heat you know?
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Well, just about any gun will do, as long as you have Smartlink on it (allows you to eject empty clips with a mental/visual command). That way, you just need to keep clips on a web/belt to slam into the gun during a firefight.
Or you(theKernel) could ask your GM if he would allow you to use a Hidden Arm Slide for inserting a new mag in to the gun.
Or you could just go the Neo route and carry an arsenal of cheap guns and just do a New York reload(drop the one you holding and pull out a new one) when ever a gun runs out of ammo.
LOL I can just see the guy groping guns everywhere but I think that would leave clues for the heat you know?
Obviously you'd pick them back up, after. Guns are expensive, yo. Keep that up and you'll never get the cash to afford your arm.
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What about a good ol' Flak cannon mounted on a heavy drone, makes swiss cheese out of most walls/guards/other stuff u might point it at
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For a flak cannon, I'd probably start with the Anti-Aircraft rockets in War! (p. 157), then use an Obsolete trait on it, taking the -3 to the stats:
| Damage | AP | Blast | Availability | Cost |
| Flak Cannon | 13P/17P | 0 | -1/m | 25F | 725¥ |
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I would probably go with a LONE STAR STRATO-9 armed with GE Vigilant Light Autocannon.
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Yeah, if you're already a hacker, it doesn't take much at all to also be a scary effective rigger.
Drones are your friends!
-k
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Except the ones that aren't. :(
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There are few guns in SR I DON'T know and love, but speaking personally, I'm partial to a few:
The Colt Government, which, for flavor, I picture as an electronic firing update of my favorite RL gun, the timeless, classic Colt M1911a1 .45 automatic. There is just something eminently classy about this weapon.
And I love, love, loves me my Salvalette Guardian.
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People seem to love the sexy Guardian.
What you do in the privacy of your own home is entirely your business. :P
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I tricked out a pair of Thunderbolts - while I have nothing but the utmost respect for a Salvalette, I found it's burst a bit laggy.
But believe when I say, there is no piece of destructive art that compares with a good light machinegun <3
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I tricked out a pair of Thunderbolts - while I have nothing but the utmost respect for a Salvalette, I found it's burst a bit laggy.
But believe when I say, there is no piece of destructive art that compares with a good light machinegun <3
I beg to differ if we are talking about destructive art then my vote is for moding up a Vigorous Assault Cannon with Burst fire (4), sling(0) , forgrip(1), personalized grip(1) and external smartgun link. Just because law enforcement should respond to multiple assault cannon shots doesn't mean they want too.
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I think he was talking about a personal weapon.
But then, with trolls an assault cannon might just be a "personal weapon."
I just had an idea of using nanites suspended in a chemical bath in a capsule round. I'm thinking this would be great for a machine pistol or SMG to disperse into an area.
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For laughs fill it with universal sealant that bonds to flesh then add some juicer nanites
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For laughs fill it with universal sealant that bonds to flesh then add some juicer nanites
That'll leave... a stain. :P
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That's one way of saying it. :o
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I think he was talking about a personal weapon.
But then, with trolls an assault cannon might just be a "personal weapon."
I just had an idea of using nanites suspended in a chemical bath in a capsule round. I'm thinking this would be great for a machine pistol or SMG to disperse into an area.
hmmm, interesting. So this would be something like a modified hollopoint (to use modern terms)? The round penetrates the body and the "mushroom" releases the little buggers into the target? Could work, or perhaps a dart or similar round could get a similar effect and be easier to produce. Either way could ruin someone's day. But how much of a factor would armor be against it I wonder?
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I think he was talking about a personal weapon.
But then, with trolls an assault cannon might just be a "personal weapon."
Well in the meat world I'm a 6'5" jarhead who used to hump a M60E3 - so yeah, troll with assault cannon ;D
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For laughs fill it with universal sealant that bonds to flesh then add some juicer nanites
That'll leave... a stain. :P
It would be more of a sculpture really...I bet somewhere is a whack-job that would buy them
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I think he was talking about a personal weapon.
But then, with trolls an assault cannon might just be a "personal weapon."
Well in the meat world I'm a 6'5" jarhead who used to hump a M60E3 - so yeah, troll with assault cannon ;D
Sailor: HEY! MARINE!!
Marine: Huh?
Sailor: There's a machine gun nest up there. <points> GO GET IT!
<Marine rushes off>
Sailor: To this day we still have no idea where he buries them.
I get to say it cause we gave you free boat rides everywhere. (My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment)
You know we love ya!
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I rather like that silenced Ares pistol, I forget the name. Very subtle.
I'm trying to shave points; if there were one class of weapons to put points in, what would it be? I'm having a hard time deciding, I want them all.
I could use a machine pistol or a shortbarrelled shotgun for more concealable longarms or automatics, I guess, but still have recourse to something more effective. Still kinda hard for me to picture how you hide something like that, it still seems rather large.
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Automatics. That's machine pistols, submachine guns and assault rifles. :)
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I like a nice powerful shotgun as well, are there any semi autos?
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There's a Mossberg in the Core, and Arsenal's Defiance T-250 comes in a shortbarrelled version.
Any opinion on the crossbows? They seem pretty handy, though the rules make them more or less like magazine pistols.
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Okay, I was looking at the Tasers; the Jupiter Taser Club from Arsenal seems like a cool concept, but grossly overpriced.
On the other hand, I really want one with a Laser Sight. And possibly a Long Barrel and an Imaging Scope. ::)
Too bad I can't get a drum and full auto, that would be hilarious.
What would you think of a Defiance EX Shocker (which seems to be the only other one with a melee option, and it's only 150 NuYen), with, say, a Smartlink and a Flashlight, and modified with an Extended Clip (+1 one whole shot!), a Gecko Grip, and for Semi-Auto? Maybe throw a Personal Look (some myffic runes), a Ceramic Parts, or a Breakdown in, too. Better get an Improved Rangefinder, for those distant 20m shots. ;D
Would a Silencer be necessary? How loud are tasers?
The attached wires seem to complicate things a bit, though I suppose they drop off when you need to fire a new one.
Or do you suppose Melee Hardening could apply to a non-wire Taser, and use that to shock people?
Or is this where I just sigh and buy a pistol and some stick and shock rounds? And a set of Stun Gloves?
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There's a Mossberg in the Core, and Arsenal's Defiance T-250 comes in a shortbarrelled version.
Any opinion on the crossbows? They seem pretty handy, though the rules make them more or less like magazine pistols.
One thing about crossbows now that War is out, as a projectile weapon you can use the trajectory software in there to combine two arrows for a 14P base damage shot that has AP-1. Not a bad deal to try and take out SWAT armored guys and/or trolls. I have no idea if crossbows are SS or SA, it doesn't say anywhere, just the modern crossbows have an internal magazine of 4 bolts and don't take a ready weapon action between shots.
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I like a nice powerful shotgun as well, are there any semi autos?
Screw semi auto, in arsenal they have a fully automatic shotgun with a drum on it. Best weapon in the game. Except for a Ares Desert striker with burst fire.
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That's INSANE! stats?
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It's the Auto Assault 16, 7P AP -1 RC 2 (Gasvent) 32(d) ammo 8,000 nuyen and availability 18F. It's good, but it's a bitch to RC out to 9. Takes like cyberware or a tripod or something.
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It's also got a silly name, if you understand WHY the real-life weapon it's based on is named the way it is.
-k
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What do you think of this? I put it together out of a spare point from a character I'm creating; I might drop it, but I think it's nifty.
Smartlinked Fichetti Executive Action with a Powered Folding Stock, Personalized Grip, Improved Range Finder, Integral Sound Suppressor and LowLight/Infrared Flashlight, kept in a hidden arm slide. 4100¥
Raise your arm, gun pops out on the stock; Load with stick and shock, aim and fire a burst.
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Depends on the characters I have. I'm a gun nut (No, not The_Gun_Nut!), so I pick and choose what I figure the characters would like the best.
In my stories, Jon "Money" Johnson carries a Browning Ultra-Power in .45 ACCP (Automatic Colt Caseless Pistol) with a screw-on adapter for a silencer, which he usually puts a flash suppressor on to protect the threads and to handle the muzzle flare from such a short-barreled, high powered pistol, and has replaced the integral laser sight with a smartlink. As well, he has a pair of Colt Cobra TZ-118 SMG in his car's door holsters, and a heavily customized AK-97 in the trunk. (He calls her "Matilda".). He also has a large collection of modern and classic firearms, such as a 165-year old Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe Double Rifle in .600 Nitro Express that he picked up in Africa on a hunting trip at his sister's request (The hunting trip, not getting the rifle.). He's very much a gun nut, as well as a fan of knives and blades, and is quite likely to pull out juts about anything you can think of. I've used him as a NPC and Mr. Johnson a few times, and the PCs have seen him go on a fishing trip, having depth charges loaded onto his ship.
My other story protagonist, Nas, carries a stock Smith and Wesson M650 Heavy Revolver in .500 S&W (Ruger Super Warhawk stats), and a pair of modified Ceska Black Scorpions in .30 Caseless Carbine. He has the revolver for intimidation purposes and as his "Driving Pistol", and the machine pistols as anti-personnel weapons. His main weapon is pure stubbornness and whatever he's currently driving, as he's a wheelman extraordinaire! He just came into some cash, so he'll be upgrading soon.
The first PC I've made that I call "The Accountant From Hell" (For a hopefully upcoming game) has a customized Colt Manhunter in 10mm Caseless that someone suggested the name of "Income Statement" for, and a heavily customized AK-97 in 7.62mm Caseless that I named "The Great Balancer (He uses it to balance the book of combat, as he lacks serious combat abilities.). He also has a full-sized 12 gauge Defiance T-250 Shotgun with Slugs and Shock Lock shells, and a stock Beretta M70 SMG in 10mm Caseless, and has a Colt Asp in .38 S&W Special with EX-Ex Rounds and some speedloaders hidden away in his bolt hole. As he's a neat freak, he typically uses dry lubricant. He's also looking at the Colt M2066 in 10mm Caseless as a possible replacement for the Manhunter if he ever loses it/has to dispose of it.
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Im sure im not the only one but damn is a Predator not just the sexiest handgun there is, well at least until they give the narcojet pistols again
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There's the Parashield Dart Pistol, Injection Arrows/Bolts,or Capsule Rounds.
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yeah I know, but they just don't seem to the same to me :P
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There's the Parashield Dart Pistol, Injection Arrows/Bolts,or Capsule Rounds.
And no image of it. Gun Porn has a good reason to be when stats are so close together. You pick a weapon that looks good for your character, not because it has "The Best Stats For It's Class".
The Ares Predator is a great gun, yes, but it's also intimidating as all hell, and is popular as well as stats because images of it are shown.
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A lot of the illustrations look...I don't know, off, or goofy. Just for the guns, mostly, oddly enough.
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That's because illustrators are not gun designers. :P After researching weapons like I have, and looking back at a lot of my RPG books, I just shake my head.
Of course, I did that for the Knuckleduster Firearms Shop, and those were Real Life weapons that actually worked. Kinda.
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Perhaps. The vehicles, for example, didn't look strange. Then again, to a car person, they may be.
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Perhaps. The vehicles, for example, didn't look strange. Then again, to a car person, they may be.
i agree well other then the mono-bikes
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Those just look awesome. I've always wanted to create a rigger character with a bow, just so I could have a mongol-style
horsemonobike archer.
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Those just look awesome. I've always wanted to create a rigger character with a bow, just so I could have a mongol-style horsemonobike archer.
dont get me wrong i love them, they just look odd....maybe thats why i love them
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Perhaps. The vehicles, for example, didn't look strange. Then again, to a car person, they may be.
Illustrators aren't vehicle engineers either. :P They're illustrators.
I'm not bashing them, BTW. It's just that sometimes "Rule of Cool" doesn't work for everyone. A gun nut will see what's wrong with a firearm, a car nut will see what's wrong with a vehicle.
A Trainspotter... Oh man, I'm not even going to deal with those crazy buggers!
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It's cringe-worthy to look at some of the illustrations of any tech in the SR books. Though some kids grow up looking at that stuff now and want to make it when they get older... as has been the trend in the past. I think the oddest weapons I've seen IRL are auto revolvers (where the Bladerunner gun took inspiration), but there's a whole slew of futuristic looking weapons that are out or in development.
Pistols (I tried to keep all the links to the same site)
S&W 629 V-Comp (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765744_-1_757774_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y), OTs-38 silent revolver (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/double-action-revolvers/rus/ots-3-silent-e.html), Mateba Model 6 (auto revolver) (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/double-action-revolvers/it/mateba-unica-6-e.html), Mateba MTR-8 (auto revolver) (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/double-action-revolvers/it/mateba-mtr--e.html), Armi Chiappa "Rhino" (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/double-action-revolvers/it/chiappa-rhino-e.html), Dan Wesson PPC (http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/?p=290), Walther SSP (http://www.carlwalther.com/ssp.htm), Beretta U22 NEOS (http://www.berettaweb.com/armi/beretta%20mod%20u22neos%20%281%29.htm), FN Five-Seven (The P90 sidearm) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven)
SMGs
Calico M960 (http://world.guns.ru/smg/usa/calico-e.html), FN P90 (http://world.guns.ru/smg/be/fn-p90-e.html), Beretta Cx4 Storm (http://www.berettaweb.com/Beretta%20CX4_Storm/CX4_storm1.htm), TDI Kriss Super V (http://world.guns.ru/smg/usa/kriss-super-v-e.html)
Rifles
FN F2000 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/be/fn-f2000-e.html), Kel-tec RFB (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sniper-rifles/usa/kel-tec-rfb-e.html), Groza OC-14 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/rus/ots-14-groza-e.html), DSR-precision DSR 1 (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sniper-rifles/de/dsr-1-e.html), HK G36 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/de/hk-g36-e.html), XM8 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/xm-e.html)
Shotguns
SRM Arms High-Capacity Model 1216 Rotary-Mag (http://www.defensereview.com/srm-arms-high-capacity-model-1216-rotary-mag-semi-auto-combat-shotgun/), Neostead (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/safr/neostead-e.html), MAG-7 (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/safr/mag-7-e.html), Pancor Jackhammer (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usa/jackhammer-e.html)
And lastly
Anything Metalstorm (http://www.metalstorm.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,79/), the prequel to Yamaha Sakura Fubuki, produces (shotguns, GL, support weapons)
By no means are these the best weapons out there, but they have that futuristic feel.
(http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/KirkNRA.jpg)
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"Guns don't kill people, adepts do."
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On my campaign, we had (no longer with us due to parenting) an Ork bounty hunter specialized on hunting metas who went by the name of Günther.
Günther's signature weapon was a 12P -6AP Panther XXL modded with trigger removal, high-power chambering, foregrip, underbarrel bola launcher and overmodded for manual easy breakdown.
He rolled 5 Agi + 6 Heavy Weapons.
And the best part was what was written on his signature tee: Günther the Hunter with a Panther.
He was frequently awarded extra Karma.
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Lorane:
Yamaha Pulsar
Chamelion Coating
Smart gun
Personalized Grip
Gecko Grip
skin Link
-4 to conceal +2 for smartgun 1 RC 6s(e) 4 mag SA
This was the go to gun for my adept face for a long time. The chamelion coat made it almost invisible and the gecko grip means I could stick the pulsar anyware. With it all skin linked there was no wireless signals coming for the pulsar.
mean little customer for those meets where guns are not allowed.
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Wouldn't Günther be better named Jäger? :P
Sorry, it's not often I get to use some German I know.
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Wouldn't Günther be better named Jäger? :P
Sorry, it's not often I get to use some German I know.
He did like to be called "The Günthermaister." He even thought of getting Custom Look and get it engraved on the Panther, but gave up.
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It's cringe-worthy to look at some of the illustrations of any tech in the SR books. Though some kids grow up looking at that stuff now and want to make it when they get older... as has been the trend in the past. I think the oddest weapons I've seen IRL are auto revolvers (where the Bladerunner gun took inspiration), but there's a whole slew of futuristic looking weapons that are out or in development.
The Kel-Tec KSG (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usa/shotgun-kel-tec-ksg-e.html) is a nifty new pump shotgun that has a 14-shell capacity without violating any state high-capacity weapon laws.
It does this because it's got two 7-shell magazine tubes instead of the standard single tube. You have to manually flip a selector switch to change which tube you're feeding from, so it's considered a 7-shot capacity weapon as far as the law is concerned. Besides just having extra ammo at the ready, you can have two types of ammo loaded and just flip the switch to select between them.
It looks nifty too, and is a perfect example of the Secondary Clip weapon modification.
-k
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Oooh. They changed the layout on guns.ru finally. Neat.
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http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=34642&view=findpost&p=1055774 (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=34642&view=findpost&p=1055774)
The second to last entry is my version KSG for shadowrun 8)
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The Kel-Tec KSG (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usa/shotgun-kel-tec-ksg-e.html) is a nifty new pump shotgun that has a 14-shell capacity without violating any state high-capacity weapon laws.
It does this because it's got two 7-shell magazine tubes instead of the standard single tube. You have to manually flip a selector switch to change which tube you're feeding from, so it's considered a 7-shot capacity weapon as far as the law is concerned. Besides just having extra ammo at the ready, you can have two types of ammo loaded and just flip the switch to select between them.
It looks nifty too, and is a perfect example of the Secondary Clip weapon modification.
-k
Ya it's a pretty cool weapon and I'm hoping to convince the wifey that we need one... It probably won't happen, but I can always dream (maybe if it comes in .410?!). It still violates a few states high capacity laws (http://dynamicarmament.com/highcapacitymagaznerestrictiions.asp) (some states will consider it a high capacity semi-auto assault weapon with all the crazy restrictions they can invent). It's basically the Neostead in a more traditional configuration, which is still not in the US, dumb bureaucracy.
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It still violates a few states high capacity laws (http://dynamicarmament.com/highcapacitymagaznerestrictiions.asp) (some states will consider it a high capacity semi-auto assault weapon with all the crazy restrictions they can invent).
Well, states can argue anything, really, but this is specifically why the magazine selector is manual. It's not really a 14-shell capacity shotgun. It's a 7-shell capacity shotgun (which is legal under all the state laws listed) with on-board storage for a second magazine.*
It's not that much different than taping two detachable box magazines together so you can switch between them quickly, and that's already a perfectly legal way of carrying extra ammo.
Also, it's a bullpup design (the action is behind the trigger, in the stock), so it's pretty darn compact.
-k
* - Note that Federal law requires that when hunting birds, you would have to insert plugs into the magazine tubes to reduce each tube's capacity to two. This ONLY applies to bird hunting, though, and apparently you can leave the plugs out if you are, say, defending your home.
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Don't try to make logical sense out of firearms laws, there isn't any. They're put into place as a compromise between Gun Control and Freedom of Firearm Ownership groups in Government.
Hell, don't try to make logical sense out of anything Gun Control people say at all. *Shakes Head*
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Well, states can argue anything, really, but this is specifically why the magazine selector is manual. It's not really a 14-shell capacity shotgun. It's a 7-shell capacity shotgun (which is legal under all the state laws listed) with on-board storage for a second magazine.*
It's not that much different than taping two detachable box magazines together so you can switch between them quickly, and that's already a perfectly legal way of carrying extra ammo.
Also, it's a bullpup design (the action is behind the trigger, in the stock), so it's pretty darn compact.
-k
* - Note that Federal law requires that when hunting birds, you would have to insert plugs into the magazine tubes to reduce each tube's capacity to two. This ONLY applies to bird hunting, though, and apparently you can leave the plugs out if you are, say, defending your home.
As much as I agree with you, politicians suck! The states in question will classify the shotgun as an assault weapon (they one-up'd the AWB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_assault_weapons_ban)), luckily it's only a few states that are like that.
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The KSG isn't semi-auto. It's a pump shotgun, so the "assault weapon" laws don't apply.
Also, the "high capacity magazine" laws are different than the "assault weapon" laws. Many states retained the high-cap restrictions while dropping many of the other restrictions of the Assault Weapons Ban, specifically due to criticisms that many of the AWB restrictions were based on how dangerous weapons looked, rather on how they actually functioned.
Folding stocks? Pistol grips? Magazine positioning? Semi-auto weapons that merely LOOKED like an existing automatic weapon? How do these things actually make a weapon more deadly?
I recall a shotgun that the manufacturers modified so the pistol grip now had a thin strip of plastic running from the bottom of the grip back to the stock (and as such was no longer classified as a "pistol grip"). Magically, this somehow made the weapon less dangerous.
-k
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Makes me wish I had got my Class 1 FFL when I had the chance.
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The KSG isn't semi-auto. It's a pump shotgun, so the "assault weapon" laws don't apply.
Also, the "high capacity magazine" laws are different than the "assault weapon" laws. Many states retained the high-cap restrictions while dropping many of the other restrictions of the Assault Weapons Ban, specifically due to criticisms that many of the AWB restrictions were based on how dangerous weapons looked, rather on how they actually functioned.
Folding stocks? Pistol grips? Magazine positioning? Semi-auto weapons that merely LOOKED like an existing automatic weapon? How do these things actually make a weapon more deadly?
I recall a shotgun that the manufacturers modified so the pistol grip now had a thin strip of plastic running from the bottom of the grip back to the stock (and as such was no longer classified as a "pistol grip"). Magically, this somehow made the weapon less dangerous.
-k
Add to that custom furniture that can be swapped out in one minute (Literally, one minute. And the guy doing it wasn't even rushing.) transforming a completely legal Ruger Mini-14 into a completely illegal Ruger Mini-14.
The part that made my head hurt the most is that the cooling shroud, what would be considered a safety device on any other piece of equipment, was part of what made it illegal.
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The "why" is very simple, actually.
It was a "feel good" law made up by politicians that had little understanding of how firearms actually function.
It was intended to drum up political support. It had very little actual effect.
On a personal note, I hate laws like this, useless ones that are largely un-enforceable, because they weaken the entire body of law.
But we're veering towards political discussions, I think, so I'll stop.
-k
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The KSG isn't semi-auto. It's a pump shotgun, so the "assault weapon" laws don't apply.
Also, the "high capacity magazine" laws are different than the "assault weapon" laws. Many states retained the high-cap restrictions while dropping many of the other restrictions of the Assault Weapons Ban, specifically due to criticisms that many of the AWB restrictions were based on how dangerous weapons looked, rather on how they actually functioned.
Folding stocks? Pistol grips? Magazine positioning? Semi-auto weapons that merely LOOKED like an existing automatic weapon? How do these things actually make a weapon more deadly?
I recall a shotgun that the manufacturers modified so the pistol grip now had a thin strip of plastic running from the bottom of the grip back to the stock (and as such was no longer classified as a "pistol grip"). Magically, this somehow made the weapon less dangerous.
-k
I'm completely in agreement with you. My reasoning comes from working with the police in CA and having a lot of friendly arguments with lawyers. The thing I heard constantly was that gun laws are as clear as mud. When I quit working with the police I had to refit my remi 870 6+1 18" barrel and pistol grip/stock combo back to a normal stock with an 18.5" barrel so that it wouldn't be considered an 'assault weapon.' For some dumb reason the law doesn't differentiate pump-action as something different than semi-auto (lawyer speak apparently).
For the states that are against 2nd amendment rights laws are still in favor of banning and/or limiting 'scary' weapons, knives included. The five states in question are not friendly to weapon owners and they are examples of worst-case scenarios with scare tactics and the like. NY is now shaking down all businesses that sell folding knives that lock, and knives that can be opened one handed, with a several thousand dollar fine. They've arrested hundreds on felony charges for possession of said knives, by stopping everyone with pocket clips (profiling in the most obnoxious and legal way). Firearm laws there are on par with the previous AWB. CA took the AWB a step further in nearly every way and they pass new restrictions every year. The selection of weapons is limited very limited. The amount of weapons seized every year is extremely high, and they all sadly get the chopped in half treatment. They just passed a thing where all firearms must have a unique stamp on the hammer/firing pin (almost RFID ammo in practice). They also passed a law that requires a thumb-print with each purchase of ammo that's kept on record for five years, until it was recently overturned as being unconstitutional. The list of weapons you can't bring into that state is obnoxiously long. The weapons that were in the state before there laws passed had to be retrofitted to fit the law, unless you have an off the books weapon (usually personal weapons brought in by military personnel leaving the service)...
Those two states are always in the forefront of the news involving Knife Rights (http://www.kniferights.org/) and the NRA (http://home.nra.org/#/home), and pasted all over Soldier of Fortune (http://www.sofmag.com/) when I occasionally poke around their site (not even mentioning all the magazines that cover all legal who-has in the weapon world). I don't care for the nut jobs that try to convince everyone that inanimate, not free-willed objects kill people to get political currency and then pass laws to reflect the nonsense (and then expect law enforcement to be the bad guys). I love living in AZ (outta the 17 states I've lived in now)! I can visibly or conceal carry (without a permit) almost anywhere and when I call 911 when someones attempting to break in and the operator says "shoot 'em" I'm glad to have that option if I need it (and it's happened)!!!
That's my rant (a couple days of no sleep gets me ranting, sorry)... I'll leave the politics alone now, but I just wanted to say I understand where you're coming from.
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On a trip to the USA, some folks I heard about were doing some re-enacting with some Flintlock Muskets (Firearms under Canadian Law). The border guard stopped them to ask the usual questions, one of which is, "Do you have any weapons or firearms of any sort?"
"Well, we have some Flintlocks."
"No, I mean REAL Firearms."
"Oh. No then."
"Enjoy your stay!"
Glad to see there's some sanity. Honestly, who is going to do a drive-by with a Muzzle Loader? :P
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More likely to blow yourself up.
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If they're well made, and you know how to handle them, it's pretty safe. They're making those out of modern materials, and with modern tech. I haven't heard of one blowing up around here, and I have at least six bunches who use them - and more archaic blackpowder weapons - for a long time now in one day's hitchhiking range.
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More likely to blow yourself up.
The big reason flint locks blew up was soldiers under fire loading the rifle or musket with more than one round and powder and then trying to fire it. when you have loaded it with 3 or four rounds and powder before you actually get it to fire then the it explodes.
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This is another"back in the day" post so I wanted to apologize about it up front for you young-ins who might have been naught but sperm when the following was relevant. So, ugh, yeah. Back in t he ol' days a few of us haunted a site that was dedicated and created for Shadowrun. It's defunct now but we had one user named Raygun and he made a special site dealing with guns and ammo in SR. I don't know all the rules for this here site but I hope me linking the following won't get me banned and corn holed for trying to help shed some realism on the topic of guns in this system...or a previous version of it at least. http://raygun.10gauge.de/
Raygun Was ahead of his time when it came to guns in SR 3. It would be great to see some of that realism transferred to SR4. Also, that cat Biometal does some killer illustrations of firearms. It'd be gravy to see the devs or art directors having him do more work for the sourcebooks.
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I agree with your friend Raygun quite a bit, there's areas where I diverge, but all in all it's good stuff. I ponder, sometimes too loudly, about ammo (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=3275.msg36166#msg36166) and damage and how they need to be grounded in reality if they're based off it. I have a nice size Word file going for home rules on ammo, weapons, and the like. Kerenshara has a nice thread going on SR4 firearms (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=143b8d48b50df5a9e2da381b1f35c4c0&showtopic=34680) over at dumpshock, if you're interested, though that might be like swearing over here...
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SR 3 is "back in the day"? Frag I feel old now.....
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In all probability, we are old. A least compared to some of the young cats who I see playing sr4, we are. When I was in my teens, I thought 25 was old. Now I wish I was 25 again. Anyways, sr4 could use some "raygun-ness" and some more illustration in their equipment chapters.
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I want my Gun and Vehicle Porn!
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Firearms and Ammo could may need 3 stats to represent there effectiveness then you could get a better grasp of the round
Stoping Power (SP) Modifies the target's Body by this value when checking for knockdown
A round with a lot of takedown potential would have a negavive value and a round with a low potential would have a positive one.
In essence Gel rounds have a build in Stoping Power of -2
Example Ares Predator IV Power 5P AP -1 SP -1
Thoughts?
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I definitely think you're on to something there, Morg. The question is how would you translate that into a simplified game mechanic that every ten year old can apply to a character? Those values could directly effect a character's, or npc's, ability to keep upright after being hit or a creature/whatever's ability to continue a charge once hit. Also, the size of the round being directed down range could effect pinning tests and fear levels. It would be cool to see a mechanic in place to represent the terror of a newb runner having .50 cal rounds exploding plascrete and car door arounds him during his first fire fight.
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Rules for suppression and morale are in War!.
I can't remember, but I'd bet weight of fire comes into play. (I was kind of distracted while reading it in a hospital ER.).
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Well if we're going to get more complicated... Awesome!
Knockdown ratings on each ammo *already mentioned*
There would also be different Ballistic armor ratings for handgun and rifle rounds
There would be damage scaling for range
That's just off the top of my head...
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Oh and scaling recoil based on the damage (caliber) of the weapon!
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Rules for suppression and morale are in War!.
I can't remember, but I'd bet weight of fire comes into play. (I was kind of distracted while reading it in a hospital ER.).
War!, Page 136, Composure test.
Threshold is 3 for a new encounter, 2 for when they've already seen the elephant.
A green troop seeing a Ma Deuce? I'd up the threshold for that if I was the GM.
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Composure p. 138 SR4a
Composure (WIL + CHA)
There are many common occurrences in a shadowrunner’s life—vicious
violence, death, metahuman misery, scary monsters, and magic—that
would make average citizens crumple into whimpering, traumatized
rag-dolls. Whenever a character encounters a situation that she has not
been hardened to, the gamemaster can call for a composure test to see
whether she faces the situation with cool resolve, temporarily freezes
with shock, or trembles and pisses herself.
Composure is a Willpower + Charisma Test, with a threshold
based on the severity of the situation (keeping in mind how often the
character has faced similar things in the past). Certain situations are
bound to become routine to shadowrunners (getting shot at, attacked
by an angry spirit, or seeing the remains of a ghoul’s meal); in these
cases, gamemasters should no longer ask for composure tests.
I use composure tests on a regular basis, and firefights for newbie runners is just a given. Full on military engagement is one even hardcore runners should have to test on. That is why there is additional rules in War.
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So what would the threshhold on this be? (http://youtu.be/zdb_G2qqg7I)
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For those interested in the Kel-Tec KSG I found a video on YouTube where they're field testing it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_z6vqX0-K0) (it's 47 minutes).
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Here's some pics of a catastrophic failure of an AR (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/04/13/big-ar-15-kaboom/), take note!
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I definitely think you're on to something there, Morg. The question is how would you translate that into a simplified game mechanic that every ten year old can apply to a character? Those values could directly effect a character's, or npc's, ability to keep upright after being hit or a creature/whatever's ability to continue a charge once hit. Also, the size of the round being directed down range could effect pinning tests and fear levels. It would be cool to see a mechanic in place to represent the terror of a newb runner having .50 cal rounds exploding plascrete and car door arounds him during his first fire fight.
@ Mindset
Characters who take damage may be knocked down by the attack. If a character takes a number of boxes of damage (stun or physical) from a single attack that equal or exceed his Body, then the attack automatically knocks him down. Characters who take 10 or more boxes of damage in a single attack are always knocked down.
Therefore stoping power would add or subtract from the targets Body for determining knockdown
sorry for late reply
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I figure we can get some suggestions form the gun crazys about what has a better stoping power and maybe rate them for it
What do you all think of a Ruger super War hawk with SP 2 load it with Gel for an extra SP of 2
I don't know about you but I think I would fall over getting hit by the RL equivalent and I'm BIG
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A troll would drop from that. And they're bigger!
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For consideration:
- Any rounds that offers armor piercing or penetration power will have less knockdown (i.e. APDS, Armor Piercing Flechette)
- Rounds that are designed to transfer all their energy on impact would have greater knockdown (i.e. Frangibles, shotgun slugs)
- Normal rounds would be the baseline
- Any rounds that don't penetrate/over-penetrate the target have greater knockdown (when only stun damage, on a physical damage round, is dealt or when the round gets stuck in the armor on the way out)
Just my quick thoughts for now...
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So do we think that Stoping Power should be added?
is it exclusive to specialty rounds or to help one differentiate between round type like 9mm and a .45 or both
are there any opinionated gun nuts that would share their thoughts on what Stoping Power values on different weapons and specialty rounds would be?
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"Disposable" Sidearm
Colt Government 2066
Accessory (Top): Smartlink (Skinlinked)
Accessory (Barrel): Silencer
500 nuyen plus 650 in accessories. Carry this to meets, or just in shady areas. Not a running piece, not something you use to conceal. The silencer's disposable as well, so you can keep the skinlinked Smartlink accessory when you throw it away.
"Intimidator"
Savalette Guardian
Personalized Grip, Skinlink
Advanced Intimidator Option: Additional Clip, Chameleon Coating, Gecko Grip
So the 800 nuyen gun gets a simple personalized upgrade for 150 nuyen extra. It's a nice, obvious weapon that's quite loud.
The Advanced Intimidator doubles the clip size to 2x12c (giving you the option to select different types of ammo if you wish). And it can be attached on your person while cloaked. Extra recoil comp is unnecessary for the Guardian, bursts are complex actions anyways.
This is a deterrent weapon, if they're not dead they're running away by the sudden (and hopefully unexpected) firepower. You can apply the Chameleon Coating and Gecko Grip option for 1100 nuyen and 3 slots. I recommend it for when you're in areas where you won't get scanned but visible weapons are still prohibited (or at least frowned upon).
Stock Pistol
The HK Urban Fighter Heavy Pistol is a bit of a bargain, I try to acquire one for my more subtle (read: almost all) runners. Too bad it can't be further modified, though I always ask the GM if I can at least buy it with the Skinlink option. Being ceramic and hermetically sealed is nifty, but broadcasting your Smartlink system is just silly.
"Infiltrator"
Colt Government 2066
Accessory (Top): Smartlink (Skinlinked)
Accessory (Barrel): Silencer
Modifications: Chameleon Coating, Gecko Grip, Easy Breakdown, Additional Clip
3050 nuyen, similar to the disposable weapon above. With the accessories and whatnot you can break this down and stick it on yourself or other items. The accessories wouldn't have the chameleon or gecko modifications.
It's for when you need to bring a respectable amount of firepower discreetly and discretely inside a somewhat secure location. With the Colt Government 2066's electronic firing and your silencer, you won't bring attention to yourself (until they fire back at least).
It's excessive, but it's available at chargen if you can convince your GM. If you don't fancy the Additional Clip model, you can swap it out for the ceramic components mod.
Those are the standard handguns I usually give my runners. It gets pricey, but I do love the bang-bang.
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I know this is often used, silveralen talked about it earlier:
Ares Desert Strike Sniper Rifle
- Firing Selection Change, Large Modification: Full Auto
- Extended Clip: Drum (100)
Accessories:
Top - Remove Imaging Scope (use goggles with visual magnification) and replace with an External Smartgun (ask your GM if you can mod it to use Skinlink)
Under - Tripod
Barrel - Sound Suppressor
Recoil Compensation of 7, you'll only suffer a recoil penalty of -1 for firing a long and short burst. Get that Insulated Netting from War! as well, and you're golden.
Better yet, you can have the Smart Weapon Platform do this for you, or a drone. Nothing says "trust" quite like a rotodrone armed with a drum-fed fully automatic sniper rifle covering you from high up.
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I'm still trying to wrap around "Fully Automatic" and "Sniper" in the same sentence.
And, yes, I know they use M2-HBs as "Sniper Rifles" in Vietnam.
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- Extended Clip: Drum (100)
Only for SMG:s and assault rifles.
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Fully Automatic Sniper Rifle
I'm going to very precisely throw lead in your general direction.
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I don't know, especially if it's one of the ones with the special chamber that fires faster than you can feel the recoil, I can sort of see it as precisely lining up a shot, and then firing more than once on nearly the same spot.
Seems like it'd be a good application for the electrically fired weapons, actually. A Fubuki Sniper?
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Only for SMG:s and assault rifles.
If the GM allows it I say go for it. There's no game breaking to adding a drum to a sniper rifle or any other weapon that can use "clips." In fact it adds all sorts of encumbrance issues, among others...
I don't know, especially if it's one of the ones with the special chamber that fires faster than you can feel the recoil, I can sort of see it as precisely lining up a shot, and then firing more than once on nearly the same spot.
Seems like it'd be a good application for the electrically fired weapons, actually. A Fubuki Sniper?
You wouldn't want a weapon using the blow back shifted pulse tech, it hardly ever works as intended and requires a ton of complicated maintenance as proved by the AN-94. Gennady Nikonov seems to have forgotten the KISS principle when he invented it (now a US general is calling out for "hyper velocity" rifles like the Russians have instead of addressing the problem it supposedly fixes). A sniper rifle using the Metalstorm tech (Yamaha Sakura Fubuki) couldn't be full auto and be anything close to accurate (not even talking about recoil but ballistic characteristics) without an equal number of barrels per size of burst and with all the rounds fired in the same barrel position relative to each other (e.g. 7 deep, etc), which would make it a crazy sized support weapon.
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Fully Automatic Sniper Rifle
I'm going to very precisely throw lead in your general direction.
If any of my players told me that was their goal, I would hand them a machine gun and say "Modify this for SA firing."
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If any of my players told me that was their goal, I would hand them a machine gun and say "Modify this for SA firing."
Depending on the MG, that just might work.
I think I mentioned snipers in Vietnam using M2-HBs (.50 Machine Guns) as "Sniper Rifles" at long range due to the nature of the round it used (Anti-Tank Rifles being nearly impossible to find any longer.). The British Bren Gun of WWII was almost considered a failure because it was "Too Accurate" (It didn't provide suppressive fire properly in some ways, apparently.).
For fictional weapons, the Smart Gun in Aliens (Where we get the Gyro-Mount idea from, as they had mounted them on Steadycam Rigs) actually had the smart targeting system turned off, as the weapons tended to put a full burst through a single ragged bullethole in a single target with it on (Not exactly a good idea for a SAW.). The name stuck, however, and they were effective in their other prescribed role. (It's all there in the manual.).
I'm sure there's other examples that my tired brain can't think of right now.
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I saw this and had to pass it along!
(http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/tacticool-tfb.jpg)
Barrett M82, with an under barrel M4/AR15, with an under barrel M203, with an under barrel Masterkey, with an under barrel M9, with an under barrel Taser, with an under barrel Bayonet...
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Do not start me on "Tacti-Cool". I'm not even a shootist, and...
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Oh man, that's awesome. Does it come with a smartlink?
:P
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Manhunter. In real life I like 1911 .45's, and that's the closest in look. The Ares Predator always reminded me of of the Desert Eagle .50, which I think is laughable carry gun (not to mention indicator of certain "shortcomings"). So, I go with the most 1911 looking piece. That and it just looks more professional. Nice styling.
As for the big one, I like the Colt M23 or M22A3. I'm military in RL and I've always felt comfortable with the Ar-15 carbine variants. I can't stand bullpups; they just don't feel right to me.
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The Ares Predator is based on a heavily modified Beretta M93 from a certain movie.
I wonder which one it is. :P
As for weapons, I like the new Colt M2066 that's shown in Arsenal. But still have much love for the Browning Ultrapower from SSC.
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Are you talking Equilibrium? That movie came out in 2002.
Edit: Nevermind. Robocop. Not used to people referencing movies from my childhood. Now I don't feel so old anymore. ;D
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I thought tacticool was fitting for some of the discussions floating around for those who wanted too many under barrel weapons... Just because you can doesn't mean you should! I'm a fan of IMFDB for movie guns references like Robocop guns (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Robocop).
IRL I'm looking at buying another handgun and am looking at FNH FNP-45/FNX series, a Sig P220/226/250, or possibly a Glock (I have a lot of trigger time with Springfield 1911's, Glocks, Berettas, and S&Ws). My wife wants to shoot it and large calibers don't work for her size so if I get a Glock I can get a drop-in/out carbine kit so she can stabilize it, otherwise I need to start looking for smaller calibers like 9mm or a revolver (I'm itching to get my hands on a Chiappa Rhino even though I'm told they have a horrible trigger system). I'd love to get 10mm in a 1911 platform, but my wife won't go for it...
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Are you talking Equilibrium? That movie came out in 2002.
Edit: Nevermind. Robocop. Not used to people referencing movies from my childhood. Now I don't feel so old anymore. ;D
Damned kids. What are they teaching you in schools if not the classics?
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Hell, we're getting Soldiers in these days who've never seen a Monty Python movie, a Terminator with Arnold....it's ridiculous.
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IRL I'm looking at buying another handgun and am looking at FNH FNP-45/FNX series, a Sig P220/226/250, or possibly a Glock (I have a lot of trigger time with Springfield 1911's, Glocks, Berettas, and S&Ws). My wife wants to shoot it and large calibers don't work for her size so if I get a Glock I can get a drop-in/out carbine kit so she can stabilize it, otherwise I need to start looking for smaller calibers like 9mm or a revolver (I'm itching to get my hands on a Chiappa Rhino even though I'm told they have a horrible trigger system). I'd love to get 10mm in a 1911 platform, but my wife won't go for it...
Have you considered a FN Five-seveN?
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Have you considered a FN Five-seveN?
I have looked at the 5-7. I like the weapon, but I'm not sold on it yet. It's about twice the price of a stock 1911, which puts it in the ball park of a nicely tricked out/semi-custom 1911. So the five-seven would still need around $500+ to be on par with other pistols in it's 'class.' Plus the ammo is still pretty pricey @ ~the price of .45 - twice that for only range loads (you can thank the anti-firearms crowd from the '90s for that, they sure were upset with 5.7x28mm coming onto the scene)... I'd still like to find one to shoot, maybe I'll get lucky at a range one day. I'm told they have some strange control placements, like mag release and safety, which isn't the biggest of deals, but I really don't want fire the requisite 2000 rounds to build new myelination for a single handgun, unless it comes with a PS90 (which is strangely only around $500 more than the 5-7)!
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I thought tacticool was fitting for some of the discussions floating around for those who wanted too many under barrel weapons... Just because you can doesn't mean you should! I'm a fan of IMFDB for movie guns references like Robocop guns (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Robocop).
IRL I'm looking at buying another handgun and am looking at FNH FNP-45/FNX series, a Sig P220/226/250, or possibly a Glock (I have a lot of trigger time with Springfield 1911's, Glocks, Berettas, and S&Ws). My wife wants to shoot it and large calibers don't work for her size so if I get a Glock I can get a drop-in/out carbine kit so she can stabilize it, otherwise I need to start looking for smaller calibers like 9mm or a revolver (I'm itching to get my hands on a Chiappa Rhino even though I'm told they have a horrible trigger system). I'd love to get 10mm in a 1911 platform, but my wife won't go for it...
What about an old school Walther PPK or even a CZ75? Both are 9mm.
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The Walther PPK were 9mm Kurtz (AKA: 9mm Short and .380 Automatic), not 9mm Parabellum, IIRC. The Walther PP was available in 9mm Parabellum.
Yes, it does matter. :P
As for the CZ75, good firearm, or a Browning M1935 (AKA: Browning Hi-Power) is another good option.
And, just because I like to prop my own country up when I can, Para-Ordinance puts out a couple of lines in various calibers. Mostly in .45 ACP, but lighter calibers are available, and most, if not all, of the line are based on the M1911A1. They started out making a modification kit for high capacity magazines for the M1911A1.
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I seem to recall a suggestion to buy Russian guns (like a Makarov) because the ammo is cheap. Or was, haven't really thought about this stuff in a while.
Speaking of cheap, do your runners ever end up using the AK97/98/Carbine? It just seems that every runner has tricked out Alpha or something.
Admittedly, I tricked out a couple of them to make an economical tacticool weapon.
I'd like to hand them out to mooks more often, but that makes them really dangerous...then again..
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To each their own. A lot of my group like the AK-97 family because, well, they know it. They've seen it in movies all the time. (I'm the only gun nut in my group.).
Some players might like the Colt M-Family of Assault Rifles knowing they're lighter weight with the same caliber (Or same damage, close enough.).
An Ares Alpha is probably the equivalent of "'Runner Bling", only useful (Add the magic "Recoil Compensation Due To Design" and everyone drools over it.). It proves you're bad enough to own one. I'd prefer a Masterkey system to an underbelly grenade launcher myself, but that's just because I really don't see much use to launched grenades on most Shadowruns, while shotguns can always be effective in some cases.
AK-97s are handy because they make great "Disposable Weapons". They're cheap and plentiful, as long as you get the right type (Watch out for the knock-offs! Their quality control goes right down!), so having to strip down one and drop it into various sewers and dumpsters doesn't hurt the budget so badly when it gets too much heat on it. It'd advise External Modifications for it, get a Top-Mounted rather than integrated Smartgun Link for example, and you can move the important and expensive parts from weapon to weapon.
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I wanted a Masterkey for my M60..I may have issues...
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I wanted a Masterkey for my M60..I may have issues...
Not really. Even MGers have to breech sometimes. :P
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It'd advise External Modifications for it, get a Top-Mounted rather than integrated Smartgun Link for example, and you can move the important and expensive parts from weapon to weapon.
I never thought of that. It'd interfere with extra bling, but it's a really cool idea.
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For an Ice Cold or Pink Mohawk campaign, they both make sense.
Of course, the Ice Cold would have a specialized weapon ready for special situations. The Pink Mohawk would have an Ares Alpha named Vera. :P
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"I wanted a Masterkey for my M60"
Isn't that what grenades are for?
I've noticed military/ paramilitary people tend to pick military guns, whereas normal sci-fi fans go for the more sci-fi-ish weapons.
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Where does that put me, then?
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I'd prefer a Masterkey system to an underbelly grenade launcher myself, but that's just because I really don't see much use to launched grenades on most Shadowruns, while shotguns can always be effective in some cases.
Thats why, when i have time to build up my pure combat character, i will most likely get her a Nitama Optimum II as her main weapon.
Ofcource i have been toying with an idea of adding an underbarrel grenade launcher to that, making it a triple weapon ;)
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"I wanted a Masterkey for my M60"
Isn't that what grenades are for?
I've noticed military/ paramilitary people tend to pick military guns, whereas normal sci-fi fans go for the more sci-fi-ish weapons.
Not always. Depends on what the "situation" or game is. In a game like SR, yeah sure. But I tend to opt for more muti-purpose weapons. And Like CanRay said, you can't go wrong with shotguns. When I create any character of any game, I tend to use a "bracket" approach to weapons. Example...
1) Main/Primary Weapon: This is the weapon you use most often, also can be a signature weapon. For SR, that would normally be an Assault Rifle or SMG. In a more fantasy setting, think battleaxe/longsword/Bastard sword.
2) Secondary weapon: A weapon to go to if the primary weapon goes poof or if it becomes impractical. For example, moving from an open battle field to a CQB. An assault rifle would be unwieldly while that SMG, shotgun, or even a heavy pistol would be ideal. A warhammer, morning star, or shortsword usually fill the bill in other settings.
3) Long range weapon. Sometimes you got to reach out and touch someone. Unless Im specifically playing a longgunner, an assault rifle usually fills this nitch or in other cases a Longbow or heavy crossbow.
4) "Speciality" weapon. In fantasy settings this is usually my blunt weapon for dealing with things like pesky skeletons or things that slashing/piercing dosent work...or if I dont WANT to kill things right away. For something like SR, think specailty rounds, tasers, shock gloves, etc
5) Consealed Carry or "Battle Casual". In some games you cant walk down the street or will be in situations where the heavy or obvious stuff would cause problems. A consealed heavy pistol or light pistol with specialty rounds or a shortsword and daggers I like best for this.
6) Weapon of last resort. When all else has failed, and you need to do something NOW, this is what I try to have. It depends on the character what form this takes, but I have used everything from shaped grenades, a Ruger Warhawk, a poison dagger, to a spiked helm (think headbutt of doom).
Now a lot of these weapons tend to overlap in terms of purpose, but ultimately the point is I like to have at least something for every occasion on me at all times whenever possible
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"I wanted a Masterkey for my M60"
Isn't that what grenades are for?
I've noticed military/ paramilitary people tend to pick military guns, whereas normal sci-fi fans go for the more sci-fi-ish weapons.
I may have tried to juryrig an M203 on my 60 once...
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Not always. Depends on what the "situation" or game is. In a game like SR, yeah sure. But I tend to opt for more muti-purpose weapons. And Like CanRay said, you can't go wrong with shotguns. When I create any character of any game, I tend to use a "bracket" approach to weapons. Example...
1) Main/Primary Weapon: This is the weapon you use most often, also can be a signature weapon. For SR, that would normally be an Assault Rifle or SMG. In a more fantasy setting, think battleaxe/longsword/Bastard sword.
2) Secondary weapon: A weapon to go to if the primary weapon goes poof or if it becomes impractical. For example, moving from an open battle field to a CQB. An assault rifle would be unwieldly while that SMG, shotgun, or even a heavy pistol would be ideal. A warhammer, morning star, or shortsword usually fill the bill in other settings.
3) Long range weapon. Sometimes you got to reach out and touch someone. Unless Im specifically playing a longgunner, an assault rifle usually fills this nitch or in other cases a Longbow or heavy crossbow.
4) "Speciality" weapon. In fantasy settings this is usually my blunt weapon for dealing with things like pesky skeletons or things that slashing/piercing dosent work...or if I dont WANT to kill things right away. For something like SR, think specailty rounds, tasers, shock gloves, etc
5) Consealed Carry or "Battle Casual". In some games you cant walk down the street or will be in situations where the heavy or obvious stuff would cause problems. A consealed heavy pistol or light pistol with specialty rounds or a shortsword and daggers I like best for this.
6) Weapon of last resort. When all else has failed, and you need to do something NOW, this is what I try to have. It depends on the character what form this takes, but I have used everything from shaped grenades, a Ruger Warhawk, a poison dagger, to a spiked helm (think headbutt of doom).
Now a lot of these weapons tend to overlap in terms of purpose, but ultimately the point is I like to have at least something for every occasion on me at all times whenever possible
That tends to be my thought process as well Mystic - and normally ends up with one of my characters like Mel Gibson in Mad Max:Beyond Thunderdome ;)
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There's a reason my group calls me the "Walking Arsenal". 8)
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1) Main/Primary Weapon: This is the weapon you use most often, also can be a signature weapon. For SR, that would normally be an Assault Rifle or SMG. In a more fantasy setting, think battleaxe/longsword/Bastard sword.
2) Secondary weapon: A weapon to go to if the primary weapon goes poof or if it becomes impractical. For example, moving from an open battle field to a CQB. An assault rifle would be unwieldly while that SMG, shotgun, or even a heavy pistol would be ideal. A warhammer, morning star, or shortsword usually fill the bill in other settings.
3) Long range weapon. Sometimes you got to reach out and touch someone. Unless Im specifically playing a longgunner, an assault rifle usually fills this nitch or in other cases a Longbow or heavy crossbow.
4) "Speciality" weapon. In fantasy settings this is usually my blunt weapon for dealing with things like pesky skeletons or things that slashing/piercing dosent work...or if I dont WANT to kill things right away. For something like SR, think specailty rounds, tasers, shock gloves, etc
5) Consealed Carry or "Battle Casual". In some games you cant walk down the street or will be in situations where the heavy or obvious stuff would cause problems. A consealed heavy pistol or light pistol with specialty rounds or a shortsword and daggers I like best for this.
6) Weapon of last resort. When all else has failed, and you need to do something NOW, this is what I try to have. It depends on the character what form this takes, but I have used everything from shaped grenades, a Ruger Warhawk, a poison dagger, to a spiked helm (think headbutt of doom).
Now a lot of these weapons tend to overlap in terms of purpose, but ultimately the point is I like to have at least something for every occasion on me at all times whenever possible
Which is the entire basis for the character I want to make, so far just called the "Borderline-Sociopathic Troll Who Names All His Firearms And Sleeps With Them In Rotation Like His Own Personal Harem". :P
I have two forms of thought when it comes to equipping a character:
1) The right tool for the right job. If you need something small, compact, easy to get around detectors, foil-seal a Streetline Special and call it a day. If you need something to rock 'n' roll and then drop without looking back, AK-97. If you need something to seriously slot every mo'fo around, Ares Alpha. The Ingram Smartgun-X is a great "Swiss Army SMG" in that it does a bit of everything (You can have it suppressed or compensated depending on the situation!).
2) What weapon a person carries speaks about them. A character's "Standard Carry Piece" can tell a lot about the type of person they are. Do they go for the standard "I'm a Shadowrunner" Ares Predator? Go for the equal firepower but more concealable Browning Ultrapower? Enjoy the informed reliability of the Colt M2066? Or require the firepower of a Machine Pistol of some sort? Anything larger is unlikely to be carried constantly in most circumstances. Unless they never leave the Barrens, which speaks about them as well.
Example: The Accountant From Hell carries a customized Colt M2066 in 10mm Caseless. He likes the numerical perfection of the caliber, and the nearly silent action (Save the supersonic crack) makes him nearly undetectable when using it.
Pup the Dog Shaman carries a short barreled Ruger Super Warhawk with a Gecko Grip as he wants any firefights he gets into to end quickly and efficiently, and feels "Home is where I hang my pistol.". His other weapons are very much "Drop Pieces" save for his Hunting Rifle, in which he uses EX-Ex rounds which doesn't leave much in the way of ballistic evidence (But lots in the way of ballistic force!).
Nas carries a S&W M650 (Essentially a Ruger Super Warhawk in stats), as he typically thinks about shooting vehicles more than people, and has a pair of custom Ceska Black Skorpions for dealing with people.
And so on.
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Which is the entire basis for the character I want to make, so far just called the "Borderline-Sociopathic Troll Who Names All His Firearms And Sleeps With Them In Rotation Like His Own Personal Harem". :P
I have two forms of thought when it comes to equipping a character:
1) The right tool for the right job. If you need something small, compact, easy to get around detectors, foil-seal a Streetline Special and call it a day. If you need something to rock 'n' roll and then drop without looking back, AK-97. If you need something to seriously slot every mo'fo around, Ares Alpha. The Ingram Smartgun-X is a great "Swiss Army SMG" in that it does a bit of everything (You can have it suppressed or compensated depending on the situation!).
2) What weapon a person carries speaks about them. A character's "Standard Carry Piece" can tell a lot about the type of person they are. Do they go for the standard "I'm a Shadowrunner" Ares Predator? Go for the equal firepower but more concealable Browning Ultrapower? Enjoy the informed reliability of the Colt M2066? Or require the firepower of a Machine Pistol of some sort? Anything larger is unlikely to be carried constantly in most circumstances. Unless they never leave the Barrens, which speaks about them as well.
Example: The Accountant From Hell carries a customized Colt M2066 in 10mm Caseless. He likes the numerical perfection of the caliber, and the nearly silent action (Save the supersonic crack) makes him nearly undetectable when using it.
Pup the Dog Shaman carries a short barreled Ruger Super Warhawk with a Gecko Grip as he wants any firefights he gets into to end quickly and efficiently, and feels "Home is where I hang my pistol.". His other weapons are very much "Drop Pieces" save for his Hunting Rifle, in which he uses EX-Ex rounds which doesn't leave much in the way of ballistic evidence (But lots in the way of ballistic force!).
Nas carries a S&W M650 (Essentially a Ruger Super Warhawk in stats), as he typically thinks about shooting vehicles more than people, and has a pair of custom Ceska Black Skorpions for dealing with people.
And so on.
To offer additional example, Operator carries either a Walther Secura Kompakt or a SR3-era Browning Max Power (Ultra minus laser sight) for the concealed punch. The Secura has statistical concealment bonuses, the other has story flavor and is his link to SR3. The Browning, being his most basic firearm, receives the most care and attention.
If concealment isn't an issue, he will carry the Predator with whatever ammunition he has available. Predators may be an old hat as far as he's concerned, but that's a lot of ammo capacity tied to an inherent smartlink feature. It coincidentally doesn't require much care as it's not something he uses all the time.
A Remington 990 covers the Longarms category while also being a "home" defense weapon, and lastly I decided his Corpsec story roots favored the HK-227X. I still struggle between that and the SCK 100 since it is in the hands of every Japanese megacorp.
Each of these weapons, except for the Browning, has an internal smartlink. My intent is to highlight him as a practical and frugal fellow who knows how to make the most of modest means.
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Not always.
Well yeah; it's anecdotal. I wasn't trying to state it as a fact, just my observations.
But to address your weapon needs, this is how I see it. I don't want a weapon that only does one thing well. I want something multi-use. I don't need an SMG for CQB if I have a carbine. I don't need a long gun for distance, if I have an assault rifle/ carbine. So, I traditionally pick up the Colts or AK's in the game as they all have those uses. Shotguns? Not incredibly useful to me. They don't do anything I can't do with full auto.
And really, you can do CQB with a pistol. You don't need anything fancy. It saves you money to buy other things to make shooting them more accurate.
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I know this goes without saying, but I'll say it anway. One should consider your situation you are working in when determing what weapon is to be used. Case in point, you are Merc-A recently employed to work in the current unpleasantness near Bogata. What do you carry?
Several factors will come into play:
1) Avalability of ammo. This is a no-brainer. In pure game stats, this isnt an issue per sey, but a GM can easily make it one for "realism". If you carry ammo for a weapon that is uncommon for your theater of operation, you may have logistical problems. If you know ahead of time, make sure you have a weapon where you can get ammo from.
2) Serviceability. As a GM, this is one thing I tend to throw at my players who never say they are servicing their weapons (or count ammo). Sucks when your weapon malfuntions because you never clean the thing. And that heavily modified long-rifle with the custom-bells and whistles suddenly takes a stray round. What? Cant get that part here? Oops, out of luck. When "in the field" I tend to go for rugged and reliable that can be serviced easily.
2a) Environment. Sand, cold, heat/humidity, etc. All can play a role in what you choose. Again, not really covered stat-wise, but something I as a GM tend to throw in.
3) Visibility. Trying to conduct operations on the sly? Then dont bring in a custom Ares Alpha when everyone, including civilians, are all packing AK-97s. Not only will you stick out, but people will more likely remember something out of the ordinary.
4) Type of battle. Again; open field, CQB, ".22 to the back of the head", know your battle and plan accordingly. Or at least try to have a little something for everything. Also consider if you have to worry about things like penetration. Sometimes it is needed, sometimes it is a BAD thing.
5) Money. Nuff said. Cass makes a great point and that goes back to my ultimate point: know your battle or at least prepare as best you can.
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Another advantage that can be used is as old as Sun Tzu, and he might have cribbed it off someone else: "Feed off the enemy".
If you can get a firearm that uses the same ammo, but is different from that of your enemies, you have an excellent solution!
One: Cheap ammo, take off dead tangos (Or looted ammo stores.). If the firearm can also use the same magazines, extra bonus! (NATO Assault Rifles tend to be able to use the same magazines, with a few exceptions, who usually have adapters.).
Two: You don't have to worry about friendly fire from having the same weapon (Thus the same sound when firing) as the enemies do in difficult to see situations.
(I've heard rumours, but never any confirmation or denial that the Sten Gun of WWII could use MP40 magazines, for example. They could certainly use the same ammo. If so, a prime example of this until the Germans came out with the MP3008. But it's profile is different.).
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"I wanted a Masterkey for my M60"
Isn't that what grenades are for?
I've noticed military/ paramilitary people tend to pick military guns, whereas normal sci-fi fans go for the more sci-fi-ish weapons.
I may have tried to juryrig an M203 on my 60 once...
Maybe I'm missing something here... but an M60 isn't mobile like an assault rifle. If I recall it's between 18-25 lbs, depending on the model, unloaded (it's belt-fed period and the military doesn't use short belts, so you're looking at a minimum of 10 lbs of belted 7.62 NATO ammo) and it's going to have at least a bipod. It's a 4-6 person weapon system, that's why a light machine gun like the SAW was adopted, so infantry units could have the advantages of the weapon without sacrificing the man power (which has for the most part left the M60, M240, and M2 as vehicle mounted weapons). So under barrel attachments, minus the bipod/tripod, would be pointless on the 60. On the other hand I have seen an M203 and masterkeys attached to the 249.
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"I wanted a Masterkey for my M60"
Isn't that what grenades are for?
I've noticed military/ paramilitary people tend to pick military guns, whereas normal sci-fi fans go for the more sci-fi-ish weapons.
I may have tried to juryrig an M203 on my 60 once...
Maybe I'm missing something here... but an M60 isn't mobile like an assault rifle. If I recall it's between 18-25 lbs, depending on the model, unloaded (it's belt-fed period and the military doesn't use short belts, so you're looking at a minimum of 10 lbs of belted 7.62 NATO ammo) and it's going to have at least a bipod. It's a 4-6 person weapon system, that's why a light machine gun like the SAW was adopted, so infantry units could have the advantages of the weapon without sacrificing the man power (which has for the most part left the M60, M240, and M2 as vehicle mounted weapons). So under barrel attachments, minus the bipod/tripod, would be pointless on the 60. On the other hand I have seen an M203 and masterkeys attached to the 249.
I humped an M60E3, this was circa 87-90, as they were introducing the SAW. It came in at just under 24 lbs, and had a forward pistol grip mounted on the barrel. The M203 experiment involved duct tape, tequila and practice ordnance. It was not condoned by CMC or anyone with a shred of responsibility or common sense.
Mostly though, I was goofing - there was no need for a Masterkey on the 60, thats what I had PFCs for.
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Or you could just make the structural integrity of the door go away with the '60 and walk through. You might get some splinters, however.
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I humped an M60E3, this was circa 87-90, as they were introducing the SAW. It came in at just under 24 lbs, and had a forward pistol grip mounted on the barrel. The M203 experiment involved duct tape, tequila and practice ordnance. It was not condoned by CMC or anyone with a shred of responsibility or common sense.
Mostly though, I was goofing - there was no need for a Masterkey on the 60, thats what I had PFCs for.
Touché... I only ever humped the standard grunt loadout, though I've carried every model of the M16. I was infantry for a short while until I was upgraded to sky cavalry. Etymological puns aside I was a pilot and am now grumpily sitting on a pension.
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It was not condoned by CMC or anyone with a shred of responsibility or common sense.
One of the most dangerous things an NCO can say: "Come here and watch this shit!"
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I humped an M60E3, this was circa 87-90, as they were introducing the SAW. It came in at just under 24 lbs, and had a forward pistol grip mounted on the barrel. The M203 experiment involved duct tape, tequila and practice ordnance. It was not condoned by CMC or anyone with a shred of responsibility or common sense.
This sounds totally possible! Just take one of those M60's attach the forward hand grip, and affix 1913 tac rails on the under frame running inbetween the bipods.(Yes I know it would impead folding of the bipod.) Then adapt the mount for the 203 so that it could be secured to the rails, once it's affixed it'd be a heavy sonovabitch, but you'd have direct and indirect suppression all in one platform! And now because I can't help myself... we're adapting it to Shadow run terms. Take an Ares stoner M202, throw on a sling, a gas vent 3, a personalized grip, imaging scope, an ammo box, and a foregrip on an as well as, a powered slide mount a smartgun, melee hardening, and reduced weight (or whatever you like.) that totals to +2 to shooting tests, -1 range modifier, space for a Ares antioch 2 (airburst link, external smartgun, ) under the barrel, and 6 recoil comp right there, if you're chromed up might as well just get a cyberarm gyromount would give either 3 or 6 more points of RC which would give you a grand total of 9-12 RC, would it be expensive? yes, be very recognizable? also yes. would it be an amazing piece of weaponry for you? VERY. As usual Viking, Semper fi. You keep giving me bad ideas I'll keep jury rigging shit together and praying it works. ;D
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Oh the collateral damage we could have done if we'd had 1913's back then....
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Something that I've noticed linked on one of the Polish sites. There's some good stuff there.
http://theartorder.com/2010/02/12/bass-ass-gun-challenge/
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[RANDOM OUTBURST WARNING: Proceed at your own risk!]
??? :( :-[ :-\ >:( :o
MAGAZINES!
For the love of all that is Holy, they're called magazines!
There, I said it.
And I feel so much better.
:D
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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[RANDOM OUTBURST WARNING: Proceed at your own risk!]
??? :( :-[ :-\ >:( :o
MAGAZINES!
For the love of all that is Holy, they're called magazines!
There, I said it.
And I feel so much better.
:D
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Just count to ten backwards and breath:-)
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[RANDOM OUTBURST WARNING: Proceed at your own risk!]
??? :( :-[ :-\ >:( :o
MAGAZINES!
For the love of all that is Holy, they're called magazines!
There, I said it.
And I feel so much better.
:D
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Just count to ten backwards and breath:-)
Eno Owt Eerht Ruof Evif Xis Neves Thgie Enin Net...*exhales*
Yeah, didn't help.
:P
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Actually its what ever the shooter says they are. In the Marines, we interchanged as we pleased, everyone knew what the other was saying. But since I got out, please say a lot of different things to describe what they insert to their gun that carries their bullet of choice. Most of the law enforcement and private security go by clips, armed forces say mag or magazine in reality brother, it doesnt matter... just call them what you call them and don't get caught in the bullshit.
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Actually its what ever the shooter says they are. In the marines, we interchanged as we pleased, everyone knew what the other was saying. But since I got out, please say a lot of different things to describe what they insert to their gun that carries their bullet of choice. Most of the law enforcement and private security go by clips, armed forces say mag or magazine in reality brother, it doesnt matter... just call them what you call them and don't get caught in the bullshit.
The military doesn't honestly teach you much more than whatever they need to get their point across, so I don't take anything I learned during my service as grounds for being 100% correct. In US law enforcement they teach a phrase along the lines of "The only things that use clips are Uzi's and girls." The correct usage is that there are both clips and magazines. Magazines (internal and external) are what hold the cartridges, clips load the magazines...
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Actually its what ever the shooter says they are. In the marines, we interchanged as we pleased, everyone knew what the other was saying. But since I got out, please say a lot of different things to describe what they insert to their gun that carries their bullet of choice. Most of the law enforcement and private security go by clips, armed forces say mag or magazine in reality brother, it doesnt matter... just call them what you call them and don't get caught in the bullshit.
The military doesn't honestly teach you much more than whatever they need to get their point across, so I don't take anything I learned during my service as grounds for being 100% correct. In US law enforcement they teach a phrase along the lines of "The only things that use clips are Uzi's and girls." The correct usage is that there are both clips and magazines. Magazines (internal and external) are what hold the cartridges, clips load the magazines...
Correct. The M-1 Garand and the SKS are the only weapons I can think of, off the top of my head, that use clips.
Modern weapons, overwhelmingly, use magazines.
Judging by your forum avatar (Monster Hunters International) , I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you know that. *Grin*
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Don't know what these magazines y'all keep going on about are - only real weapons are belt fed ;D
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In the marines
Oh for the love of R Lee Ermey - it's Marine. You should know that Teyl :P
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So many guns...
So. Much. LOVE.
My personal favorite at the moment is the Nitama Optimum II modified with GV2, electronic firing mechanism, endoscope, trigger removal, skinlink, and melee hardening. The weapon uses AP ammo as standard in the rifle barrel, and Shock Lock rounds in the underbarrel shotgun (for breaching).
I have been toying with the idea of getting an Auto-Assault 16 shotgun and modifying it for HV, extending the drum magazine, adding a smartlink and skinlink, and adding a sling/foregrip to that weapon as well. Shock Lock rounds seem the sensible choice here, also. Keeping a couple of drums of flechette seems prudent. Since it already uses a drum, increasing the capacity with a standard extension seems reasonable.
Lastly, converting the Ares Vigorous Assault Cannon to full auto, installing smartlink and skinlink, and belt feeding it while mounting it on a gyromount seemed like a good idea. Using AV cannon ammunition seemed like a prudent choice.
Umm...why make that thing full auto--if it's even possible??? Do you REALLY need something that can shred tank armor like it's tissue paper?
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Umm...why make that thing full auto--if it's even possible???
For the same reason I hacked my X Box way back when to put Linux on it, and why I root my phone as soon I as I get it - Because we can
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Umm...why make that thing full auto--if it's even possible???
For the same reason I hacked my X Box way back when to put Linux on it, and why I root my phone as soon I as I get it - Because we can
Can, possibly. Should? Probably not.
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More boom is always better 8)
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Were you being ironic? ;D
Are there any limitations to modifying an Assault Cannon? Otherwise, it's just a Firing Selection Change (Large Modification) and is only 4 slots. You can fit in a Drum modification for 100 rounds as well. Ares help you with your recoil though.
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You've got 6 slots of modifications, your character's money, and your GM's good graces to consider.
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You've got 6 slots of modifications, your character's money, and your GM's good graces to consider.
The last is the most important. I'd go ahead and let him have his full auto assault cannon despite misgivings and put him against the all delta-ware cyberzombie troll. ;)
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Correct. The M-1 Garand and the SKS are the only weapons I can think of, off the top of my head, that use clips.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
A lot of Bolt-Action Rifles from the era and a bit earlier also used Clips and Stripper Clips to quickly reload as well. The SMLE was a bit weird, as it held 10-rounds in the built-in magazine (Like a modern box magazine, but not meant to be swapped out like is done today), but the Clips held 5-rounds. If you wanted to reload completely, you had to use two clips.
The German Mauser Gewehr 98/Karbiner 98K used Clips as well. So did the Russian Mossin-Nagant. And probably most other "Combat Rifles" of the era.
FYI: The SMLE is still in military service as a Combat Rifle. Admittedly by one small Canadian Unit, but hey, that's a long time for the old girl!
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You've got 6 slots of modifications, your character's money, and your GM's good graces to consider.
The last is the most important. I'd go ahead and let him have his full auto assault cannon despite misgivings and put him against the all delta-ware cyberzombie troll. ;)
LOL. Why bother? seriously, he won't hit anything if he goes FA. and I quote,Any weapon classified as a heavy has all of it's uncompensated recoil doubled.
shooting at FA would give the shooter a -18dp the only way they'd be able to use it would suppressive fire, but that's 20 rounds each time, and assault cannon rounds are expensive.......
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LOL. Why bother? seriously, he won't hit anything if he goes FA. and I quote,Any weapon classified as a heavy has all of it's uncompensated recoil doubled.
shooting at FA would give the shooter a -18dp
Only if you have no recoil compensation, also thats no different from a machine guns.
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LOL. Why bother? seriously, he won't hit anything if he goes FA. and I quote,Any weapon classified as a heavy has all of it's uncompensated recoil doubled.
shooting at FA would give the shooter a -18dp
Only if you have no recoil compensation, also thats no different from a machine guns.
sorry, I didn't quote my context. We were talking specifically about this.
Were you being ironic? ;D
Are there any limitations to modifying an Assault Cannon? Otherwise, it's just a Firing Selection Change (Large Modification) and is only 4 slots. You can fit in a Drum modification for 100 rounds as well. Ares help you with your recoil though.
since it has no mods or accessories listed for recoil comp I just stated what would happen if someone did shoot it that way.
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Drone mount it.
:)
-k
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Drone mount it.
:)
-k
You could do that, or add accessories to it. a smart gun external, a gas vent 3, a gryomount, and a shock pad comes out to +2 to shoot, and if my math is right RC10(?) which would cover all the recoil needed to accurately fire a FA shot without negative mods. that's either +9 to hit, or +9 to damage, even with 1 agility and 1 skill that comes out to 13 dice pool if you shoot wide... which translates into SO MANY GOOD TIMES. ;D
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"When in doubt, empty the magazine."
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CanRay, for some reason when I read that it reminded me of when this.
Player2: Man this run was easier than freshman chicks in a college bar!
Player1: We must be getting lucky :D
GM: good, I'm glad you feel that way, everyone roll for surprise.
Group: *dice rolled, everyone rolls low*
GM: Everyone roll an Edge test.
Player 1: Why?
GM: Because, suppressing fire. Now we'll find out just how lucky you really are.
Player1 to GM:.................. You're a dick.
GM: Flattery will only get you so far. 8)
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that's either +9 to hit, or +9 to damage, even with 1 agility and 1 skill that comes out to 13 dice pool if you shoot wide... which translates into SO MANY GOOD TIMES. ;D
Wide burst is a negative modifier to the targets dodge pool not positive mod to the shooters pool.
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that's either +9 to hit, or +9 to damage, even with 1 agility and 1 skill that comes out to 13 dice pool if you shoot wide... which translates into SO MANY GOOD TIMES. ;D
Wide burst is a negative modifier to the targets dodge pool not positive mod to the shooters pool.
You're right that's my bad. (thanks for catching it!) Apoliges, I just always think of it as a +9 to hit rather than a -9 to dodge because they seem so similar to me. :-[ someday that'll stick, I swear......
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CanRay, for some reason when I read that it reminded me of when this.
Player2: Man this run was easier than freshman chicks in a college bar!
Player1: We must be getting lucky :D
GM: good, I'm glad you feel that way, everyone roll for surprise.
Group: *dice rolled, everyone rolls low*
GM: Everyone roll an Edge test.
Player 1: Why?
GM: Because, suppressing fire. Now we'll find out just how lucky you really are.
Player1 to GM:.................. You're a dick.
GM: Flattery will only get you so far. 8)
How about this one then: "Happiness is a belt-fed weapon and a target rich environment." ;D
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How about this one then: "Happiness is a belt-fed weapon and a target rich environment." ;D
Truer words were never spoken my friend ;)
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Another quote, this one mine (I'm not sure if I said it here yet or not, but I told my group this to try and explain Full Auto to them): "Back in the days of the Old West, the name of the game was: Better one good shot than six bad ones. Now, it's better one good shot than thirty bad ones."
Thought that one up after talking with some folks back from The Sandbox. They laughed and agreed completely.
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Another quote, this one mine (I'm not sure if I said it here yet or not, but I told my group this to try and explain Full Auto to them): "Back in the days of the Old West, the name of the game was: Better one good shot than six bad ones. Now, it's better one good shot than thirty bad ones."
Thought that one up after talking with some folks back from The Sandbox. They laughed and agreed completely.
Actually there was less shooting in the old west than is portrayed, it was more of a kill people in their sleep game...
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Come on, The Duke wouldn't lead us wrong! :P
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Another quote, this one mine (I'm not sure if I said it here yet or not, but I told my group this to try and explain Full Auto to them): "Back in the days of the Old West, the name of the game was: Better one good shot than six bad ones. Now, it's better one good shot than thirty bad ones."
Thought that one up after talking with some folks back from The Sandbox. They laughed and agreed completely.
What people say and what they do are two different things.
Despite the above advice, there were roughly 50,000 rounds expended per confirmed kill in Vietnam. I think the current day figures are up to 250,000 rounds per kill today.
-k
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I think they were referring to the idiots that charged at them AKs Blazing and shooting up the sky. But I might be wrong. I'll have to ask.
The only "Confirmed Kill" I ever heard from one of the service folk I know (I try not to ask about that topic for a variety of reasons, the main one being I'm a Civvie Puke) was a One-Shot, One-Kill situation.
...
OK, he was driving a tank and his crew used the 120mm with a HE round at the clay wall the idiot was hiding behind after he just set off an IED under said tank. But it was still only a single shot. :P
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There is no such thing as "overkill" there is only "OPEN FIRE!!" and "I need to reload!!".
8)
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How about this one then: "Happiness is a belt-fed weapon and a target rich environment." ;D
Truer words were never spoken my friend ;)
Damn it! Now I have to research making my SBR box-fed.
*shakes fist at the uncaring skies*
[Actually, that brings to mind a rules thing I disagree with. Reloading.
Removing a magazine shouldn't be an action, Smartlink or no. Free action. You depress the magazine catch and let gravity do the rest - you've got the time to kill while your weak side is reaching for a new magazine.]
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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There is no such thing as "overkill" there is only "OPEN FIRE!!" and "I need to reload!!".
8)
Actually, they were written up for the overkill.
And, um, "Danger Close" to the infantry unit that targeted said idiot. ::)
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There is no such thing as "overkill" there is only "OPEN FIRE!!" and "I need to reload!!".
8)
Actually, they were written up for the overkill.
And, um, "Danger Close" to the infantry unit that targeted said idiot. ::)
"Only you can prevent friendly fire" :'(
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Maybe the magazine releases all have terrible ergonomics.
"Yeah, it's there, right on the barrel of the gun."
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"Only you can prevent friendly fire" :'(
"Danger Close" not "Blue-On-Blue". The infantry was fine, and had gotten enough warning before the cannon fired. But they were a bit miffed for a good reason.
Thing is, his convoys never had to deal with a lot of BS after that.
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Technically, it doesn't use a trigger...
Ares Smartbow
- Smartgun System
- Skinlink
- Melee Hardening
- Underbarrel Weapon (Monofilament Sword or Vibro Sword)
The Ares Smartbow was developed specifically for the "Arcane Archer" series featuring an Elf Mystical Adept who uses the Smartbow as his weapon of choice. In the series, it's also used to deliver spells "on contact" and acts as a weapon focus. The weapon's true capabilities are more mundane: the bow is built from the inside out using Smartgun components modified for bows--it automatically adjusts the weight and even locks the draw to allow for greater accuracy. As a cord would be cumbersome and wireless too common, the Smartbow is skinlinked. Its construction is specifically hardened for melee combat.
For the low-low price of 750¥ (and your GM's permission) you can have the "Smartstring" installed instead of the standard bowstring (Underbarrel Monofilament Sword). With a mental command, the bowstring becomes taut and razorsharp allowing it to be used as a bladed weapon. A more radical, and less hand-threatening modification, installs vibroblades at the upper and lower limbs of the bowstave. The bow itself can then be wielded like a sword.
With your GM's permission, you can over-mod it with Easy Breakdown (Manual) and you can turn the bow into two short vibro swords (or vibro knives). Just retract the bowstring beforehand.
Utterly impractical, but cool because it is. You can just as easily bring a sword with you...
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There is no such thing as "overkill" there is only "OPEN FIRE!!" and "I need to reload!!".
8)
You stole my sig.
Only governments worry about overkill. Grunts worry about being killed cause the guy was underkilled.
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There is no such thing as "overkill" there is only "OPEN FIRE!!" and "I need to reload!!".
8)
You stole my sig.
Only governments worry about overkill. Grunts worry about being killed cause the guy was underkilled.
Seriously true story bro. ;D
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"Life is precious, ammunition is cheap.", right?
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Here's a fun reload vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls4Uq1aCiTA)
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"Life is precious, ammunition is cheap.", right?
Have you seen the Chris Rock vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWjhTWv9eUs&feature=player_embedded) on that?
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"Life is precious, ammunition is cheap.", right?
Have you seen the Chris Rock vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWjhTWv9eUs&feature=player_embedded) on that?
Only heard about it, thanks for the link.
Actually had something similar happen when I was running Deadlands: Hell On Earth (Post-Apocalyptic Goodness!). One of my players was finishing up his character, and then smacked his head, "Bullets. OK, how much are bullets." "For your big ass gun? Five dollars." "That's not so bad." "Each." "... ... ... DAMN!"
It made for one of the best intimidation lines I've ever heard in a game: "You're four dollars worth of annoyance right now. My bullets cost five dollars. Do not become a more expensive problem."
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Here's a fun reload vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls4Uq1aCiTA)
Yep, that guy is a professional marksman pistol com shooter (http://www.travistomasie.com/). But theres a reason he's that good and that fast at reloading. His gun, totally customized. The part that matters to the reload is a beveled magazine well. On top of that, his kit is not made for combat retention just competition shooting, which makes it very simple for him set it up however's fastest for him. Lastly, He gets Paid the BIG Cred to practice that movement until he's that fast and he's been doing it I've heard at least 1,000 times a day for years. Throw all those together, He's got a serious leg up against any non competition shooter or fighter in a combat situation. (IMO, Bullets coming at you while doing ANYTHING changes EVERYTHING.) But at the same time, It's a testament to how important training muscle memory is. (He's half the reason I Drilled mag changes and malfunction drills every time my company went to the field.)
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It made for one of the best intimidation lines I've ever heard in a game: "You're four dollars worth of annoyance right now. My bullets cost five dollars. Do not become a more expensive problem."
;D instant top ten in my CanRay Quotes.
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...It's a testament to how important training muscle memory is. (He's half the reason I Drilled mag changes and malfunction drills every time my company went to the field.)
Never such a thing as too much training just because of muscle memory. Even if the brain shuts down (Or is trying to tell the body, "Hey Bob! You're DEAD! Fall down!"), the body can still go through the rote motions.
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...It's a testament to how important training muscle memory is. (He's half the reason I Drilled mag changes and malfunction drills every time my company went to the field.)
Never such a thing as too much training just because of muscle memory. Even if the brain shuts down (Or is trying to tell the body, "Hey Bob! You're DEAD! Fall down!"), the body can still go through the rote motions.
Something like that. For me it was more a matter of when my brain hits fight or flight I need it to be able to do this just as well as if i hadn't lost all of my gross motor control... At least until I come out of the Black enough to be back in the red or the yellow. :P
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Here's a fun reload vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls4Uq1aCiTA)
Yep, that guy is a professional marksman pistol com shooter (http://www.travistomasie.com/). But theres a reason he's that good and that fast at reloading. His gun, totally customized. The part that matters to the reload is a beveled magazine well. On top of that, his kit is not made for combat retention just competition shooting, which makes it very simple for him set it up however's fastest for him. Lastly, He gets Paid the BIG Cred to practice that movement until he's that fast and he's been doing it I've heard at least 1,000 times a day for years. Throw all those together, He's got a serious leg up against any non competition shooter or fighter in a combat situation. (IMO, Bullets coming at you while doing ANYTHING changes EVERYTHING.) But at the same time, It's a testament to how important training muscle memory is. (He's half the reason I Drilled mag changes and malfunction drills every time my company went to the field.)
I am not as fast as that guy, but slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.
My best was probably doing live fire stuff in the killhouse. One of the observers came up to me after "This course required a reload! You never reloaded!"
I just pointed to my empty mag on the floor.
"oh. Nice reload!"
Muscle memory ftw.
-T-
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This sounds totally possible! Just take one of those M60's attach the forward hand grip, and affix 1913 tac rails on the under frame running inbetween the bipods.(Yes I know it would impead folding of the bipod.)
I *knew* I had seen something similar once...
(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6411/1297426993.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/90/1297426993.jpg/)
http://world.guns.ru/machine/usa/ares-shrike-e.html
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This here is my street merc's little baby (minus the flashlight, and throw on some Chameleon Coating):
(http://www.vltor.com/images/casv/sbr3.jpg)
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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I remember you statting it somewhere - care to share? (Brain is absent today for multiple reasons)
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@Digital_Viking
That's definitely not an M60, but it is still cool!
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I remember you statting it somewhere - care to share? (Brain is absent today for multiple reasons)
Colt M-23 6P -1 SA/BF/FA 6 40 (mag) -7 Concealability (-8 Unreadied)
Assault Rifle Mod/Acc Slots:
Smartgun System +2 Ranged Attack Dice Pool Top
Skinlink 1 Slot
Barrel Reduction -1 Concealability, -20% Range 1 Slot
Personalized Grip +1 RC 1 Slot
Powered Folding Stock -1 Concealability 1 Slot
Cameleon Coating -4 Concealability 2 Slots
Gas Vent 3 +3 RC Barrel
Foregrip +1 RC Under Barrel
Sling -1/-2 Conc.(Rdy/Unrdy) +1 RC +2 Retain -
Total cost: ¥2930
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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@Digital_Viking
That's definitely not an M60, but it is still cool!
....I know it's not :P But as it uses similar ideas to what Teyl mentioned I found it appropo!
@JN - Thanks omae! I thought it was something similar - may end up using it for a character I have in mind.
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@Digital_Viking
That's definitely not an M60, but it is still cool!
Check out the LMG at Knight's Armament.
http://www.knightarmco.com/lmg.html (http://www.knightarmco.com/lmg.html)
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I...want one now. I have absolutely no use for it, it will never see any practical use or anything else outside a target range...but I just want one now.
Is that weird?
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I...want one now. I have absolutely no use for it, it will never see any practical use or anything else outside a target range...but I just want one now.
Is that weird?
It's a perfectly normal feeling that should be encouraged.
Myself, I'm going to build an M60E3 paintball gun.
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I...want one now. I have absolutely no use for it, it will never see any practical use or anything else outside a target range...but I just want one now.
Is that weird?
It'll be useful when the Koreans invade. (Homefront.).
WOLVERINES!!! :P
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I...want one now. I have absolutely no use for it, it will never see any practical use or anything else outside a target range...but I just want one now.
Is that weird?
Then give this a looksee. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/19/knights-armament-chain-saw/ (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/19/knights-armament-chain-saw/)
(http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/2009shotshow-day3-2009shotshow-01172009-001-tm.jpg)
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I...want one now. I have absolutely no use for it, it will never see any practical use or anything else outside a target range...but I just want one now.
Is that weird?
Nope, not at all. If you love guns, be proud! 8)
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I...want one now. I have absolutely no use for it, it will never see any practical use or anything else outside a target range...but I just want one now.
Is that weird?
Then give this a looksee. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/19/knights-armament-chain-saw/ (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/19/knights-armament-chain-saw/)
(http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/2009shotshow-day3-2009shotshow-01172009-001-tm.jpg)
Needs a bayonet.
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I...want one now. I have absolutely no use for it, it will never see any practical use or anything else outside a target range...but I just want one now.
Is that weird?
Then give this a looksee. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/19/knights-armament-chain-saw/ (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/19/knights-armament-chain-saw/)
(http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/2009shotshow-day3-2009shotshow-01172009-001-tm.jpg)
Needs a bayonet.
A chainsaw bayonet :D
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"If it bleeds...we can kill it."
-Jn-
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@JN - Thanks omae! I thought it was something similar - may end up using it for a character I have in mind.
Looking at the numbers, I think it should be RC 5, though I listed 6.
The sling and foregrip stack, but the powered folding stock is nullified by the sling (which is how I listed it). However, as this is a long gun that typically has a fixed stock, I believe that there's a "built in" point of recoil comp from the rigid stock, so the sling shouldn't count, either.
Of course, if that is the case, that means that you could totally lose the powered folding stock and just have it on the sling.
Either way, put a long coat over it with the stock folded and the sling cinched and you're at -10 Concealment.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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A chainsaw bayonet :D
Something like this?
(http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2008/12/chainsaw-bayonet.jpg)
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That...it...behh...rrrgg..
IT MUST BE MINE!!
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Yes. It's only fitting since he put a saw on a chainsaw chassis, it should also have a chainsaw bayonet! :D
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I can't photoshop the two together.
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I can't photoshop the two together.
Thats ok, I never expected you to photoshop them together, you've got 5 days. Make it happen. :P (jk)
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(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4917/lancerzero.png)
Booya.
-k
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(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4917/lancerzero.png)
Booya.
-k
If you play a troll and don't immediately beg your Gm for this, then you should have to start over and play a gnome.
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Here's an awesome video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QwrbyVaC6EU) of future runners!
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Here's an awesome video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QwrbyVaC6EU) of future runners!
Already got a good start on the Pink Mohawk style of gameplay. ;D
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Here's so more fun gun videos...
Glock 18 with more than enough rounds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLkbuBClfCM&feature=player_embedded) to do whatever... Tacticool AR-15 spoof (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q362H-xg0ZA&feature=player_embedded) - classic - And finally, an Eliza Dushku clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Iey0wDqBE&feature=player_embedded#at=12) in the spirit of SR.
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Oh man, the Tacti-Cool...
Anyhow, here's what I want when I go Canada Goose hunting (http://youtu.be/bTlpIKUga_U).
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The rate of fire on the AA-12 is absurd, but I wouldn't complain if I had one...
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Weapons can only take so many modifications. Since only fully automatic weapons can be converted to HV, one has to modify the Barret to full auto first (taking 4 of 6 "slots"), then modify it for HV (taking the remaining 2 slots). By doing this, it is not really a sniper rifle, and is now a HMG.
Which, of course, references a previous gripe I had with the damage codes of both the sniper rifle and HMG. It makes no sense that the sniper rifle does more damage than an HMG with a longer barrel and the same ammunition. Weapon accuracy is represented by both the range of the weapon and the proficiency of the shooter, it shouldn't get "bonus damage" simply by virtue of being a sniper rifle. For example, the Browning M2 has comparable range to many modern sniper rifles, and comparable accuracy.
Bumping the HMG damage up a point or two or dropping the sniper rifle down a point makes more sense, and it avoids ridiculous situations like the one mentioned, where someone makes a Vulcan cannon out of a single shot precision weapon.
and considering that the M2 and the Barret use the exact same round that makes sense, and considering that a marine came up with the idea of a .50cal sniper rifle, is just icing on the cake.
my personal preference is the AS-7 with a customized load depending on the situation, (flechette for sewer work, EX-explosive for armored foes) a Salvette Guardian with EX explosive as a standard sidearm, and a silenced AP3 with standard rounds. Then again i tend to tailor my loadouts for the mission.
And considering the m107 (civilian moniker M82) was thought up AFTER Carlos Hathcock killed a man in vietnam with a browning M2 with his optic attached using a custom bracket at 2,286 yards. In fact I believe the barret prototype used a browning M2 barrel to begin with. It is the same round in a different gun. I don't care how much better your workmanship is any round of ammunition within spec can only do so much no matter what weapon it is in.