Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Pan0pt1k0n on <05-08-15/0231:03>
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So, I have a bunch of questions that are pertinent to my GMing a high-powered (600bp+30 karma) SR game. Specifically, what to throw at my players. As the title suggests, I'm pretty much torn.
The first thing I came up with was the old-school Illuminati of the 5th world decided to use the Emergence as a way to strike back against their Awakened masters (the Black Lodge, the Ordo Maximus, etc) and seize control of the world from the corps and dragons, bringing the sociopolitical and economical landscape to be more in line with the 20th century. Think original Deus Ex, or the Illuminatus! trilogy. Problem is, when my runners did their legwork, they smartly NOPE'd their way out of it.
The second thing was a Toxic dragon. Now, I did my homework, and read all I could about dragons, Toxics, and Horrors. Specifically, that there was this badass called Verjigorim who specialized in corrupting dragons. "Great," I thought to myself, "I'll use that." So I plopped one of his astral cocoons straight into the Chernobyl reactor, took Lofwyr's stats, and possessed him with a Great Form Radiation Spirit at Force 16. So, he's beefy. Problem is, I am not sure where to go from there.
Some more background - the runners are employed by one Burnout, who currently houses the spirit Lethe, who is the Big D. The players were suckered in by the promise of a 1 million nuyen reward for the tracking down of a cyberzombie in DC, and when he started talking about a "gift I gave to Goldensnout," our PhysAd (who, OOC, is the oldest player and has the most metagame knowledge) started having a breakdown. In any case, they're wandering around North America, trying to collect the bones in the will, then flying off to Mars to pick up the skull on the photograph.
I just have a couple of questions that I was wondering if someone knew the answer to, that mostly deal with fluff:
1 - I did my homework. I've read Harlequin's Back, the 3E Horrors book, and the insane 37-page Horrors thread on these here forums. Where else can I get more info on Horrors and how they'll manifest in SR?
2 - Is being Toxic the same thing as being Tainted, or is it a step below being Tainted, or is it something else entirely?
3 - Considering Barsaivre was in the Ukraine, which location corresponds to Chernobyl/Bryanskaya Oblast', and is there a supplement that deals with it?
4 - Is there a supplement that deals with Illuminati, and exactly how the Black Lodge subverted them?
Thanks so much in advance!
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First, regarding Horrors, you really can't - because there is no such information. Work with the bad things we've got already, because the Horrors are something that should only be happening 1500 years down the road. Understand that out of game, SR is trying to stay away from ED links, due to potential conflict of intellectual property rights.
Second, in regards to Burnout / Lethe / Dunkelzahn, remember (if you know) or understand (if you don't) that if you're going to use him as that, he is not gonna be 'in the game' for any real period of time - the Dragonheart Trilogy put him firmly in the astral and the metaplanes, wandering around and squashing potential spike points and thus keeping the Horrors from crossing early. Having him show up, suggest something from the Will, and disappear is cool; having him pal around with them is kind of ... breaky? :P Anyhow.
Third, in regards to the photos, you need to pick up the adventure booklet called 'Missions' for 2nd Edition, FASA 7325. In it, there is an adventure which discovers the facts about those photos; you could actually run the team through that adventure BEFORE you send them off to Mars, because the WIll talks about finding out the truth about them, not about going to Mars. ;)[spoiler]As I recall, they're fake. Sorry.[/spoiler]
Fourth, the Illuminati: like in real life, in Shadowrun they don't exist. Or at least, if they do exist, they exist under some other organization's name, some of which you've mentioned - the Black Lodge, the Ordo Maximus, the Catholic Church, whatever. When it comes down to it, if you want to use them, you're going to have to create them and manage to insert them and their tentacles into the Sixth World all on your own.
Fifth, regarding Toxic/Tainted, no, they're not the same thing. I personally would step away from the Ukraine / Chernobyl / astral cocoon and the Force Zillion toxic spirit - because this is an entity that a) is well above the player's capacities, and which b) is going to draw the attention of Goldensnout and all the rest of the Great clan. Realize that Feuerschwinge (Firewing) was a toxified GREAT Dragon (explore some info on her here (http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Feuerschwinge), and there were not one but two other Great Dragons as well as at least one adult dragon that got into it with (or in defending) her; that's just a Class I horrible destructive mess waiting to happen. Instead of creating this, however ...
... use Aztechnology.
No, seriously: use the AZT. One of the provisions of the Big D's will is this:
To the first party to determine what lies behind the door of room 5B78 of the Aztechnology Pyramid in Tenochtitlán and file a report of their findings on Shadowland, I leave 5 million nuyen or medical care for the remainder of their natural life, whichever seems most appropriate.
If you look at the Aztlan Sourcebook, this is the core of what they're talking about, and the very, very strong implication is that what is behind that door is the Smoking Mirror, Tezcatlipoca himself, a Corrupted Dragon (possibly Great). So if you want to throw a nasty, powerful, terrible, very bad, no good, irredeemable villian against them ... set them against Aztechnology and the Corrupted dragon at its heart. If you're interested in doing some reading about how this was handled here in an IC forum, you can start here in VU93 (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=80.msg104287#msg104287) and go on until here (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=80.msg130167#msg130167), at which point it moves to an IC thread here (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=7330.0). While I don't THINK the run's actual action was played out in any thread, it might have been.
That said, understand that dealing with something at that level is going to involve major changes - to the world at the start if you use your corrupted / toxic dragon in Chernobyl, or eventually, should they manage to succeed with purging Aztechnology of that particular issue. Either way, good luck.
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As one of the people involved in that, I can honestly say it wasn't played out IC anywhere. We wanted to tell a story, and planned it out via PMs, before just running with it. I may go back over the PMs someday and write the run up story-like instead of how it came out in the VU93 posts.
But Wyrm is right on all those points.
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Well, first off, I'm gonna say this - I'm planning to completely and utterly wreck the world. The guys are beyond prime runners, so I feel that their actions should impact the world, and impact it strongly. As far as Burnout goes, one of the side-quests is to build him a new body, from said dragonbones.
As far as the books you mentioned, are they still under copyright? Is there a free link to them, or do I have to buy them? And I'm guessing the Aztlan Sourcebook, you're referring to something that's previous edition?
Another question comes up - provided they do end up going to Mars, is there any sort of "mana well" artifacts (maybe like the Dragonheart) that would allow the magical types to not go irrevocably insane in the void of space?
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You cobble together enough life in one place, and it will make a weak manasphere. <s>CFD's</s>EVO's Gagarin Base likely has enough people and plants there that you could at least throw a weak spell without bleeding out your various orifices.
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When you want to play with old stuff in a game with an extended back-story, you can either go completely off the wall or ya gotta play with what's in the world. Yes, of course the books I mentioned are still in copyright. And no offense, but your guys really aren't beyond prime runners, at least not going by the minimal information you've given; not sure what edition you're playing, but while 600bp + 30 karma in either 3e or 4e gets you into the big leagues, you still have to have the contacts, the capabilities, the gear - that's just the start, you know? In any case. If you want to radically change the world, realize that you'd might as well give a slight glance at what's already there, and then pretty much proceed to ignore it, because everything your people will be doing is going to require you to do a total redesign / radical makeover.
And no - space is space. If you send a mage or even an adept to Mars, you can expect the former to be insane or dead, and the latter to be insane, dead, terminally depressed, and/or the last survivor. Remember that that trip takes a year, minimum, for the trip out, and another year (minimum) for the trip back.
So good luck with your wrecking, have fun, let us know what/how much you had to rewrite.
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<-- Mage has 4000+ karma earned. 3000 invested in himself, 900+ invested in Alley Spirit. 80+ in acquired positive traits, 70+ Contacts.
1st run in 2050 (1st edition.). over $30,000,000 in acquired (and lost) assets over 20 year history in the shadows.
*****
Your guys are Small Fish in a BIG pond. Same as me.
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<-- Mage has 4000+ karma earned. 3000 invested in himself, 900+ invested in Alley Spirit. 80+ in acquired positive traits, 70+ Contacts.
1st run in 2050 (1st edition.). over $30,000,000 in acquired (and lost) assets over 20 year history in the shadows.
*****
Your guys are Small Fish in a BIG pond. Same as me.
...damn.
I'd love to see his/her stats. *salivates*
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I belive you can get the Azzie book pretty cheap on both drivethru and battleshop.
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Right. Reaver, if the character has been updated to 5e, you're invited to play a little game we're calling Super Brawl Sunday[/u]. ;D (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=19253.0)
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Sadly, we don't update until all the core books are out. (So we need data trails). Then the GM has to figure out exactly how we are going to update.
A lot of stuff got "lost" going from 3e to 4e that we, as players were not happy about, but also accept that our GM's hands were kinda tied :(
And, with the skill caps that were in place in 4e, it means I have a massive skill spread. (Cause hey, you never know when a Mark actually does have an interest in 17th century Spanish sexual graffiti....) which would get condensed..... or not.
Then there is the cyberware issue...... I believe our Samurai sponstationally turns to a dried out husk if he takes his current cyber/bio load out over to 5e (and yes, it's Delta ware AND cultured ware...)
On the plus side, our hacker/techmomancer (whatever she is.... she's playing it close to the chest...) is happier then a college kid in "buck a beer" beer night right after his loan clears...
The Rigger is grumbling, which means the GM is worried. (The Rigger's got 200 lbs on our GM... and he knows how to use it!) He's really not happy with Drones right now, and already is bemoaning the loss of his customized (and named!!) "Minion Army of Dronely Doom"
If i remember, when i get back home, i'll upload the chummer 4e character sheet. Its incomplete, but has the stats and common gear on it.
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In cases such as the 'skill cap' issue, IMO what you should be doing is taking a bit of time to go back to character generation, rebuilding your character as close to the baseline as you can and as you can remember (which is why you should always keep a sheet of the baseline build), and rebuild them as smoothly from there as possible. Of course, I'm also putting together my 'build rules' for that particular run, which you and your group might eyeball and use a little of ... once I get it posted. :P
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Third, in regards to the photos, you need to pick up the adventure booklet called 'Missions' for 2nd Edition, FASA 7325. In it, there is an adventure which discovers the facts about those photos; you could actually run the team through that adventure BEFORE you send them off to Mars, because the WIll talks about finding out the truth about them, not about going to Mars. ;)[spoiler]As I recall, they're fake. Sorry.[/spoiler]
When Ares (IIRC) sent their probe to Mars, the images from that probe were intercepted and replaced with photos showing 1950s movie flying saucers, obviously an attempt to discredit any data coming from that project. However, Missions lets you find the real photos and [spoiler]the dragon bones and pyramids are there[/spoiler]
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For a brief recap of the Mars "Missions" events:
[spoiler]
2001: NASA surveys the surface of Mars using robot probes, capturing several images of several pyramid structures and what appeared to be a large skeleton (unknown at the time, an actual dragon skeleton)
2011: NASA's Operation Discovery, a manned mission to the surface under the jurisdiction of government black-ops agency Veil, makes planetfall and proceeds to explore both the ruins and the skeleton, gathering bone and stone samples.
2011: Disaster strikes Operation Discovery, and only 3 of the original 8 astraunauts make it back to Earth with most of the samples collected. Veil decides to keep the controversial data a secret and essentially mothballs the findings.
2016: NASA almost goes bankrupt, and is bought by AresSpace
2040: AresSpace launches Project Cydonia, an unmanned probe mission with the goal of photographing the surface of Mars in unprecedented detail. Veil agents intercept the data received from Project Cydonia, turning 200 minutes of data into nothing but noise and static, as well as a single doctored image; a flying saucer hovering over old-fashioned Apollo equipment. Publicly, the project is a massive failure.
2057: Somehow, Big D had managed to get a hold of two 2001 originals, and his last will and testament offers a significant reward (1% of Ares Macrotechnology Stock) for anyone who can verify the authenticity of the documents. One of the original Project Cydonia techs still working for AresSpace launches a private investigation into what he firmly believes is a coverup. Enter player characters.[/spoiler]
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Is it explained how that got there? I mean, I'm pretty sure the 4th world didn't have space flight.
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The details of that is left up to Gamemasters, if I remember correctly.
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Is it explained how that got there? I mean, I'm pretty sure the 4th world didn't have space flight.
A Dragon from Mars? Portals (and possibly a rowboat): http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20030825
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Would a dragons head explode or whatever when it leaves the mana/Gaia sphere seeing as they are duel natured? Sorry the question just popped into my head.
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Suppossedly, the Tunguska Event was just Harlequin trying to catapult a rock into space with a spell. He was probably just trolling, but still, someone COULD HAVE used a mass driver-like spell to send a dragon into space and kill it by "making it's head explode or something". Perhaps a corrupted GD? Assuming you could take the drain, this actually sounds like a good idea.
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My personal fan theory is that dragons come from Mars. Mars gets invaded by Horrors, and leave through the meta planes to Earth, which is why the numbering starts kind of weirdly on the down cycles. The First World happens some 20,000 years ago, and is called the First World, not because its the first mana cycle, but because its the first cycle with dragons on Earth. A few dragons stay behind on Mars, cast a mass entropy spell and kill all life on Mars and destroying Mars's mansphere, and thus banishing the Horrors for a time.
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As to the location that Chernobyl corresponds to in the 4th World. what i have found out by researching that very question myself is that the general consensus by those people WHO have tried to match Barsaive locations with real World locations is that it corresponds to Wyrmwood/Bloodwood.
It seems that FASA based this on an erroneous translation of the name "Chernobyl" into "Wormwood", this translation is thought to originate from an article in New York Times from 1986. The name Chernobyl actually translates to "mugwort" which is a kind of Black grass.
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Why is everyone so certain that the Horrors aren't due to arrive for another millenia or so?
There are already indications that the timetable for magic has moved up (can't recall the reference, but the Dragons were surprised at the 'early' appearance of Shedim and Insect Spirits).
If magic depends partially on the number of people alive 'fueling' the manasphere, then there are far more people (and more Awakened) in the Sixth World than were in the 4th. This might possibly speed up the arrival of certain entities...
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There have been steps taken to block the horrors, not the least of which is the Big D himself.
Then there is the little legal fact that the two properties are split, and owned by two seperate corporate entities, thus stopping them from EVER appearing in ANY future SR product until that legal matter is dealt with.
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That certainly prevents Catalyst from using said entities, I agree. But that's a meta-game answer, and not applicable to every campaign. Despite the Big D, shedim became a part of the Sixth World, and pushing back the arrival of other entities by a few centuries would be highly beneficial, but still could allow them to arrive sooner than anticipated.
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Because of the nature of natural cycles. Mankind can, locally, prevent tides from coming further inland with dikes, or harness them with wave-generators, or even enhance them if they want - but they cannot change the fact that the moon and the sun and the Earth's rotation combine to create tides. This is, comparatively, a 'shallow natural cycle'; it has power, but it happens in a 12-hour occurance, with variations throughout a 28-day lunar cycle.
Move to something deeper: the seasons. Mankind can (has!) altered to an extent the seasons - we've increased the general heat level of the planet, resulting in generally hotter summers and generally warmer winters. But mankind cannot even come close to altering the fact of them; that is generated by a 365.24-day-long cycle, the Earth orbiting the sun.
Move further on - imagine a cycle that takes over 10,000 years to complete. Humanity can, in certain locations, and with an immense amount of effort, heighten or dampen the effect of the mana cycle. Shedim 'took advantage of' one of those incidents - a deep astral rift and the mana spike of Halley's Comet (a 76-year cycle that we COULD affect, due to its being a comparatively small item to affect.) If the two hadn't been combined, the shedim wouldn't've arrived for at least decades, and probably centuries. The other nasties are working on a similar restriction - they can only be summoned at certain strengths/flavors of mana (mana spikes, such as that of the Great Ghost Dance, or the Corrupted Locus in Aztlan), and being able to naturally cross is something that requires even higher levels. Those levels are not due to be reached for an estimated two thousand or more years, because of the very nature of that massive cycle.
If you want to use them, by all means go ahead; it would radically change the nature of your game, because they ARE arriving centuries before they should, and metahumanity is Simply Not Ready For Dealing With Them. The mystic technology (so to speak) of the kaer is yet to be rediscovered; it is clearly something more than 'just a big ward'. IMO, the arrival of the Horrors would be something to make insect spirits, CFD, toxics, Fear the Dark, the HMHVV and VITAS plagues, and both the Crashes all rolled together seem like a happy-go-lucky Christmas party. So use them if you want - but remember/realize that you're dropping the worst of the worst on a world that isn't ready for it, and simply can't be ready for it for another few decades, which means the Horrors ... win.
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I agree that having the Horrors, etc. actually arrive would change the world and the nature of the game beyond all recognition. I'm not so sure that the cycle of magic is truly immune to tampering, acceleration, delay, etc. as magic by its nature interacts with the human world, something that truly natural phenomena don't. (cf. a volcanic eruption will occur and act according to natural forces whether or not any human is present; but some magical phenomena can't happen without (meta)human presence.)
I'm using the 'the cycle has changed' theme to convey an impending doom not 2 millenia from 2076 (which most sentients aren't going to get worked up about; plenty of time to get ready) to some unknown time; not tomorrow, not even in a couple a centuries, but long before the major players are prepared for it. I have a particular GM character who is aware of this, and is taking action to get ready much sooner. (And if a few of his enemies get caught by surprise by all of this, oh well...) Although he's not directly interacting with the PCs (yet), some of his activities have created runs for them, and they're slowly coming to his attention as possible assets or obstacles.
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On the contrary - go out into a manastorm in the Outback, and you'll discover just how quickly several different magical phenomena that 'can't happen without (meta)human presence' occur. But by the theme of SR, no - while some Horrors and quasi-Horrors are able to come across (Ysgraithe, due to the Horror Mark still upon Aina Dupree; those few summoned by Darke; a few minor ones due to mana spikes at the Great Ghost Dance location; Aina's work at Crater Lake; possibly the Corrupted Locus in Aztlan; shedim from the DC Rift; etc.), the massive amount of mana required to enable their 'easy' crossing (even the 'easy' crossing of the Invae) is, by standard SR, well into the future. Humanity can adjust and control minor natural phenomenon - lava flows in Iceland, for example - and magic is one of them. But magic would exist, increase/decrease, and spontaneously manifest curiousities (spontaneous spells, spirit manifestations, etc.) with no metahuman interaction no matter what.
That's part of SR canon, however, and however much it isn't likely to change, you can, after all, do what you want in your home game. (You can also disagree all you want, but it isn't likely to change into HorrorRun any time soon.) I do wish you luck. I would be interested to know, however, how this 'particular GM character' is aware of these things ... though of course he's probably Brightlight, and deserves to be melted down into his component atoms. (Never liked the character; Sargent/Gascoigne creation, which should speak for itself.)
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Not a canon character, and he's been around since the 2nd World and been keeping track of the relationship between the number of Awakened sentients active/alive and how quickly the amount of mana increases in each age. The dragons have been doing the same, but are underestimating the effects by a few centuries or so (cf. the comment that the dragons were surprised, not by the appearance of Insect Spirits, but that they manifested 'early'. The dragons dismiss this as an anomaly.)
Nor do I want 'Horror-Run', since that would be a very different game; apocalyptic, not dystopian. Which is why the coming changes are far enough in the future that the PCs (well, most of them) would be long gone through natural causes anyway.
It's just unfortunate (but not anyone's fault) that the two FASA lines got separated and there can't be any further canon/official material re the links between ED and SR.
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If you want some horror flavor in your games without actually subjecting the World to something that shouldn't happen for at least another millenia and a half ( even with increased mana levels ), i would suggest either A) meta-planar experiences or B) use shadow spirits from Street Grimoire, they do have very much a "horror light" flavor. As far as i recall in Earthdawn, the wraiths are actually mentioned as forerunners of the horrors.
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I have used a few, along with toxic shamans and spirits, in between 'normal' runs. But since the last major adventure was the team doing a data steal in Chicago, I'm going light on the Insect Spirits for a while, for my own safety...:)
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The Great Ghost Dance threw the manacycle off kilter, and Aztechnology and various blood cults haven't helped things. Both the invae (insect spirits) and demiwraiths should have still been centuries off, implied in Harlequin's Back if I recall. Leave to homo sapiens to foul things up.
Ætherology seems to also imply that the Horrors may be much closer than they should be at this time; ancient ruins of Yth and things barely seen across the great chasm in the metaplanes. There's material to indicate things are progressing far faster than the during prior Ages.
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I am runnng a similar campaign in that the horrors have through manaspikes contacted agents on Earth to hasten their coming. The runners are hired by various immortal parties to stop these agents plots. I am curious how your runs turn out.
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My personal fan theory is that dragons come from Mars. Mars gets invaded by Horrors, and leave through the meta planes to Earth, which is why the numbering starts kind of weirdly on the down cycles. The First World happens some 20,000 years ago, and is called the First World, not because its the first mana cycle, but because its the first cycle with dragons on Earth. A few dragons stay behind on Mars, cast a mass entropy spell and kill all life on Mars and destroying Mars's mansphere, and thus banishing the Horrors for a time.
I have a similar theory involving Draconic Ritual magic. It is known that Dragons have their own form of ritual magic that multiplies their powers together somehow to ridiculous(er) levels. It was implied that it was powerful enough to have world-ending consequences and that they refused to use it anymore after a particular incident in the past. My theory is that some cataclysmic event occurs (such as a Horror invasion) and they use Ritual Magic to transport themselves to Earth while a few stay behind to power the ritual that ends all life on Mars.
Draconic Ritual Magic is my favorite plot device, right after the Horrors. You just get to throw all the rules out the window.
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My personal pet theory on the dragon bones on Mars is that in the 4th Age, a dragon in an attempt to flee the Horrors used some crazy teleportation or super-speed magic (or a metaplanar jaunt) to get away and save themselves. As they didn't realize Mars has no atmosphere (and little to no manasphere), they promptly died before being able to muster up the energy and return (or chose death to going back, for all we know). They could have landed there by accident, or it might not have been what they'd intended to find (i.e. survivable).
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What do you call a dead dragon on Mars?
A good start. ;)
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My personal pet theory on the dragon bones on Mars is that in the 4th Age, a dragon in an attempt to flee the Horrors used some crazy teleportation or super-speed magic (or a metaplanar jaunt) to get away and save themselves. As they didn't realize Mars has no atmosphere (and little to no manasphere), they promptly died before being able to muster up the energy and return (or chose death to going back, for all we know). They could have landed there by accident, or it might not have been what they'd intended to find (i.e. survivable).
Apparently, there's growing evidence (in the real world) of a nuclear "event" on Mars 250,000 to 500,000 years ago. Such things do occur naturally, though not usually on such a planetwide scale. However, the specific elements of the residue are a result of reactions involving large amounts of material that is not normally active enough to go up on it's own -- you couldn't run a reactor with it, for example, much less detonate it with just critical mass (though the neutrino emissions of a fusion bomb could) -- leading many to conclude it is clearly a weapon signature.
Aside from scrubbing anything organic off the planet, and covering the surface in radioactive dust... that would play merry hell with whatever manasphere might have existed while anything was still living there.
It probably solved any Horror issue, too.
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Except Earthdawn didn't had the technology to make a single nuke, let alone enough nukes to cover entire planet. Aliens? I could definitely see them go "F**k this monster-infested system, let's just drop nukes on the planet we were on, leave and never come back!". ...Except that doesn't explains draconic bones. Test subject? Cloning experiment?
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Except Earthdawn didn't had the technology to make a single nuke, let alone enough nukes to cover entire planet. Aliens? I could definitely see them go "F**k this monster-infested system, let's just drop nukes on the planet we were on, leave and never come back!". ...Except that doesn't explains draconic bones. Test subject? Cloning experiment?
I bet magic used properly could set off fissionable material; however, keep in mind, even on Earth there has been natural nuclear reactions, and the mechanism behind nuclear weapons is not that complicated.
On top of that, the dragon could have been the one to flip the switch. 'Save yourselves, I'll make sure they don't follow you!' *single tear streaks down the cheek of the love interest.*
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I don't know, nuclear weaponry and magic don't get along, a spell like that seems like a downright insane idea. I see someone being willing to use it in a desperate "we-are-screwed-anyway" situation but to create it they would need at least some understanding of nuclear physics. That means doing at least SOME experimentation. And without technology, their only means of doing so is magic. Using magic to research something that reacts to it in an unpredictable, possibly (likely?) destructive manner? That... Does not sounds like a good idea.
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It is possible for naturally occurring uranium to reach critical mass. Exceptionally rare, but possible. Link (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor)
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Toxic isn't the same thing as tainted. Toxic is a reaction to a polluted environment. They can be avengers or poisoners.
Tainted is closer to being controlled by an outside source like the insect shaman.
Mars: EVO's Buttercup has astral gateway power. EVO sent a ship there and she sent an astral anchor and enough material to Kickstart the Martian Manasphere. By using the astral gateway she can access Mars almost instantly. This is secret because if she can do that, she could have any number of anchors on Earth.
Dunkelzahn and older player with metaknowledge. Look into Whit Hat Aztlan and Dunkelzahn is a Jerk theories.
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I thought they proved the Dragon bones thing was a Hoax (in one of the novels IIRC)?
CitizenJoe:
Where did you read that Buttercup used portals to get to Mars? Or is that just theory?
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It's a pet theory of mine. It's also a precursor step to an interstellar far future game where the Horrors are captured and used to power FTL drives and weapons via their reality warping powers.
The wiki does list Buttercup as having Astral Gateway power. Anyway, it explains why EVO made a run for Mars and if that same anchor was used for supplying the spaceship en route it solves a lot of the problems with space travel.
Like I said, the existence of essentially teleportation tech is the utmost secret since the security issue would be crippling.
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But the problem with Astral Gateway is that you can't haul physical cargo through it.
The power forces parties nearby to become dual natured and allows them to project through it. (pg 194, street grimoire)
Like when Ghostwalker came through the DC rift, it was just his astral form that came through. It then booked to wherever he had his body stashed.
So using the gateways may allow parties to project to a deeper metaplane then back through another gateway to Mars, thus bypassing the void between, but they would not automatically get bodies on the other side (since they still have a body on this plane, just back on earth) nor could it be used to restock a ship in transit so to speak.
It is not to be confused with teleportation or anything similar.
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I thought it brought physical stuff through. I know it c an bring mundanes through. It still works as a portal when you use alcherra.
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Again no, like we said the astral gateway allows mundanes to astrally project even though they normally can not. Their bodies are still left behind.
As for Alchera, that is a bit different situation. That is where an astral phenomena manifests on the physical plane and while it is there it has physical form.
When it goes away, people caught in it tend to be left behind, which can be bad it it leaves them hanging over an empty space up high.
There are tales of people disappearing with it, but nothing ever proven to date.
Now maybe if we get to ED level magicks which can open true portals then we could see something along the lines you are thinking, but I don't think we are currently at that stage yet.
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Then you send astral projected plants and animals as food. Then use Buttercup's wealth ability to create stuff on the other side.
You're either on board with the idea or you're not. The fun thing is getting it to work without just making up something out of left field. The theory is strange enough and secret enough and obscure enough that any GM could ignore it without comment.
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Lockdown does have a project in MIT&T that created a teleporting gateway to ... somewhere on Earth while traveling through the metaplanes. I plan on using that as the way to get my runners out of Boston.
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Then use Buttercup's wealth ability to create stuff on the other side.
That could well work for providing stocks at least.
You're either on board with the idea or you're not. The fun thing is getting it to work without just making up something out of left field. The theory is strange enough and secret enough and obscure enough that any GM could ignore it without comment.
But really the answer probably should come out of left field, if just a little bit.
When you just throw down, oh X in the form of Buttercup has power Y in the form of Astral Gateway so it can do Z in the form of basically a teleport, but at the same time lots of entities have that same power Y and they can not do this that creates the question of why? Because if AG is all you need, then you have to consider other spirits using it as well and all that implies. Or players who get control over a spirit with said power and how they may (mis)use this.
Maybe Buttercup uses an unique ritual or artefact (both of which plays well with the secrecy thing and also would make it much sought after if discovered) or maybe as she has grown as a free spirit racking up karma and now through the spirit equivalent of initiating she has developed a new spirit power that had the AG power as a pre-requisite to develop. So you can build on what she has and still explain why it is new and exciting without that disconnect.
So it's not so much whether we are on board or not as we have toyed with a few concepts to create a bridge between two points, but we are just asking for consistency in your fluff & crunch.
Unless you are planning to write for CGL, then writing contradictory material may be a bonus/ ;)
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I did stipulate an astral anchor that had to be carried on the space ship.
The harder question is why she'd be interested in Mars.
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Perhaps she assumed it will be a safe haven when the Horrors arrive? Sure, we have already agreed that it wouldn't work, but SHE doesn't has to know that.
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It is probably less important that Mars specifically works and more important that the general idea works.
Space has a whole lot of inhospitable planets out there. If the Mars hop works due to an astral anchor and an artificial manasphere, projecting outwards will only open a gateway on habitable world's since they are the ones with working manaspheres. That's the premise of the far future space opera game I mentioned.
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That's assuming your astral anchor survives the 18 months exposed to a -12+ Mana Void....
We have no idea if an astral contract can survive a Void for an extended period of time.
Remember, an astral anchor is made from.... MANA. And then you have taken that construct of mana and are moving it through a total absence of mana for an extended period of time....
From the description of what happens when you just astrally view in a mana void, I think your anchor would be destroyed by the long exposure to open space... You would need a heck of a lot of biomass to generate a manasphere for the trip, but I guess it would be possible, if expensive.
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Oh you definitely need some sort of artificial manasphere. Due to mass constraints you'd need to bioengineer some sort of plant, likely algae, that is biased towards manasphere generation.
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Silly amateur conspiracy theorists. You don't need the astral anchor to be active during the entire trip there; you just need it capable of being activated once it gets there, which would be why you first build up enough of a mana pool (per se) to make it somewhat less-catastrophic to work magic, then send someone with the anchor who has experience working in such difficult environments.
And when you get down to it, isn't someone already researching (and claims success with) actual paired physical-into-the-astral gateways? Move one of those to Mars, and presuming you know where Gate M is inside the Astral and how to get from Gate E to Gate M, you can suddenly cut an 18-month space trip into a two- or five- or even thirty-day astral combat convoy, and take a whole crapton of goods into Gate E and out of Gate M. And suddenly you have "Mars, brought to you by EVO!!" and they essentially own the entire planet - and are terraforming it.
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And when you get down to it, isn't someone already researching (and claims success with) actual paired physical-into-the-astral gateways? Move one of those to Mars, and presuming you know where Gate M is inside the Astral and how to get from Gate E to Gate M, you can suddenly cut an 18-month space trip into a two- or five- or even thirty-day astral combat convoy, and take a whole crapton of goods into Gate E and out of Gate M. And suddenly you have "Mars, brought to you by EVO!!" and they essentially own the entire planet - and are terraforming it.
Loving this idea, definitely going to introduce EVO as yet another player in the Artifacts campaign I've been running - opening a gateway to Mars would sure make for a more exciting finale than Ghostwalker's little get-together in DC.
(Yes, we're still on Artifacts.. what can I say, we play slow and get sidetracked a lot).
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Travel through the metaplanes requires an astral quest. That means you can play some other game to simulate the quest.