Shadowrun
Catalyst Game Labs => Catalyst's Shadowrun Products => Topic started by: ImaginalDisc on <01-30-14/1742:09>
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I didn't see a thread on this yet.
Digital Toolbox released.
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2014/01/shadowrun-digital-tools-box-released-make-shadowrun-easier-to-play-than-ever/ (http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2014/01/shadowrun-digital-tools-box-released-make-shadowrun-easier-to-play-than-ever/)
I haven't seen any of the materials included. If anyone here has, are they worth it?
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Just got the email, it looks like it could be a cool product.
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It's in the sticky thread above, but I don't know who has seen it. Looks liek they're hinting at the next fiction piece though, if that's your thing (Frost & Fire, I believe).
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Good call. It's the electronic form of the two upcoming box sets.
BattleCorps (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3285)
DriveThruRPG (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/125721/Shadowrun-Digital-Tools-Box)
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Downloading this now...quite looking forward to it. ;D
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Downloading this now...quite looking forward to it. ;D
I'm looking forward to a review. I'm not sure if the appeal of these boxes is in the hardcopy feelies or the content. If it's the later than I'll buy it as a download since I run an online game.
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First time there's no preview of the product on DTRPG. I think I'm going to wait or take a pass on this one.
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Still looking through it, but one thing of note to everyone here:
A Seattle Boxed Set is being planned, apparently.
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I'm really disappointed in the cards. That was the main reason I was considering the hard copy, but the art looks really low res, and in some cases it looks like they put very little effort into it. Like the bulldog art, which is solid yellow for some reason and looks like it was ripped from a first edition source book or something. A lot of the cards provide information that's largely worthless (like the spell cards, and most of the cyberware doesn't include a description of what it does), and I find it kind of disingenuous to advertise 110 cards when there's multiple copies of several pieces of gear. Overall, it just really feels like a missed opportunity.
The one exception are the program cards for the decker programs. Those are great. Custom art, a description of what it does, all you need on one card. A deck of those would be great for a decker player to swap out and keep track of his running programs. Unfortunately, there isn't a full deck of them, just Sneak, Track, Exploit, Baby Monitor, Data bomb, Defuse, Hammer, Encryption, Decryption, Biofeedback Filter and Browse. So, once again, disappointing.
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One thing I'm not sure of - why did Catalyst not advertise this release at all? Are they only going to hype the physical book releases, not PDFs?
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Additionally, we’ll be releasing a “Shadowrun Tools Digital Box” that combines both of these print boxes into a single great set of electronic tools for players, for sale in the near future. (http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/12/shadowrun-introductory-box-set-now-splitting-into-2-great-box-sets/)
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http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2014/01/shadowrun-digital-tools-box-released-make-shadowrun-easier-to-play-than-ever/
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What I would love to know before buying is whether "Rules of the Street" is "simple to use" because it's a true condensed version (no fluff, no art, no odd organization, etc...) of the complete rules or if it's glossing over a lot like the QSR.
If it's the former, I could do with a copy - If it's the latter, I'll just keep slogging through my big rulebook.
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Okay, am I the only one here who thinks the iconic hacker (Gentry) looks like Matt Smith? ;)
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I'm really disappointed in the cards. That was the main reason I was considering the hard copy, but the art looks really low res, and in some cases it looks like they put very little effort into it. Like the bulldog art, which is solid yellow for some reason and looks like it was ripped from a first edition source book or something. A lot of the cards provide information that's largely worthless (like the spell cards, and most of the cyberware doesn't include a description of what it does), and I find it kind of disingenuous to advertise 110 cards when there's multiple copies of several pieces of gear. Overall, it just really feels like a missed opportunity.
The one exception are the program cards for the decker programs. Those are great. Custom art, a description of what it does, all you need on one card. A deck of those would be great for a decker player to swap out and keep track of his running programs. Unfortunately, there isn't a full deck of them, just Sneak, Track, Exploit, Baby Monitor, Data bomb, Defuse, Hammer, Encryption, Decryption, Biofeedback Filter and Browse. So, once again, disappointing.
Once I get home, I plan to compare the cards provided in the boxed set with those that have been already released as separate decks. Sounds like there are new ones (cyberware and matrix), but will summarize my findings for all.
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Keep in mind that the cards included are (or at least should be, IIRC) the "whole set" for what's in these introductory boxes. The full spread of programs isn't available in the cut-down version of the game in these intro boxes, so there was no need to include every program (and, in fact, some programs use simplified/streamlined rules for what they do, also, compared to the full core rules). These boxes aren't meant as augmentations to the core SR5 rules, for the most part, they're meant as replacements for it. Folks that don't want quite all the options, all the crunch, all the nitty-gritty gear, etc, etc, can use these trimmed-down boxes to get into the game, test the waters, and see how they like 'em.
It's not quite the level of "Shadowrun Basic" that I, personally, would have liked to have pitched and rewritten whole cloth if I'd had my madman's druthers, but I think it was a good effort at...at...distilling down the 480+ page core book, and still ending up with a final product that's much more compact, while still allowing for some iconic Shadowrun goodness.
That said, because I'm a vainglorious bastard, it's mostly the character booklets I'm curious about opinions on, and I did my best to make THEM perfectly reasonable characters (within the bounds of the artwork presented, SR5 cover included) that even folks with the core SR5 book can get some mileage out of. I would've loved to be able to give Sledge modular cyberarms (since, y'know, artwork), but other than that I'm pretty happy with how this merry band worked out.
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Dang cash supply, I love archetype NPC/PC write ups. For 20$ I am excited over this. It will add an easier way to demo SR, and yet still add some to my home game. Maybe a financial miracle will happen and I can pick it up :)
Cheers SR community, Frankie the Formori
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Dang cash supply, I love archetype NPC/PC write ups. For 20$ I am excited over this. It will add an easier way to demo SR, and yet still add some to my home game. Maybe a financial miracle will happen and I can pick it up :)
Cheers SR community, Frankie the Formori
If I had a way to send comp copies, I would, buddy.
Maybe someone who has picked it up can tell you about a certain someone in Ms. Myth's contacts list, though. ;D
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She has quite a few contacts.
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In my copy, Ms. Myth has a record sheet, but no dossier.
Coydog paid to have Coyote as a Mentor Spirit. What does that do for her? Coyote isn't listed anywhere; heck, Mentor Spirit isn't listed anywhere as far as I can tell.
While looking for rules for Coyote-as-mentor, I noticed the example in Plots & Paydata is wrong; Coydog casts Manabolt at Force 6, gets 4 net hits, and deals 10P damage with no chance of resistance. That's not how Manabolt works in 5e (and isn't how it works per Rules of the Street).
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Her dossier is in the Beginners Box section; I have a copy of her record sheet in the Alphaware section.
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Yeah that's...a weird oddity. Only the dossier for Ms Myth is in the Beginner's Box Set, while the others are in the Alphaware set.
I know that these two sets were made from splitting up one boxed set, but the divide to split up what is just very...odd.
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Ms. Myth is a "bonus" dossier, to give folks (with the Beginner's Box) a sample of a more involved character sheet. Hardpoint, Coydog, Sledge, and Gentry were the original intended dossiers, and are in the product that originally intended to host said dossiers (the more involved/intermediate box). Remember, the two boxes are (when not digital) being released as separate products.
Coyote's listed as a Mentor Spirit (for those with the SR5 core book) using the stats for Raven. As for the lack of Mentor Spirits in the Toolbox, I've shot an email upstairs to see what's what, FWIW.
I'm not sure who wrote the "crunch" bits in Plots and Paydata. The fiction itself ("Mischief is my Business") is mine, but I really don't recall who did the "By The Numbers" parts.
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When I saw the announcement, the name "Digital Tools" had me assuming that we were finally going to get software to help with making characters and/or GMing. You'd think that this game, with its emphasis on computers and such, would have an officially-licensed program for these tasks.
Alas, no.
Nonetheless, I'm probably going to buy this. When I can finally find a gaming group in my new hometown, I want an easy way to introduce them to SR.
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When I saw the announcement, the name "Digital Tools" had me assuming that we were finally going to get software to help with making characters and/or GMing. You'd think that this game, with its emphasis on computers and such, would have an officially-licensed program for these tasks.
Alas, no.
For what it's worth, SR4 has Lone Wolf's Hero Lab. Most of what I know about an SR5 version is, I think, "it's on the way" (I'm not directly involved with that side of things at all, but we freelancers poke the boss and ask, every now and then). That's up to the outside company, not CGL.
On the Mentor Spirit front: the intention is that she has Coyote (Raven) as a Mentor, and I'm doing what I can with the bosses to--hopefully--get an insert wedged in somewhere prior to the boxed set(s) going to print. Mea culpa. I did the dossiers and a few other things, other folks wrote up the cut-down rules, and we seem to have missed a hand-off, here. I'm doing what I can.
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On the Mentor Spirit front: the intention is that she has Coyote (Raven) as a Mentor, and I'm doing what I can with the bosses to--hopefully--get an insert wedged in somewhere prior to the boxed set(s) going to print.
Wait...so mechanically, Coyote is supposed to be identical to Raven? This is news to me.
And while the SR5 core book does mention that Raven is a "close cousin" to Coyote, it doesn't exactly list in under the "similar archetype" heading. Was this why a formal Coyote mentor spirit was absent from the book? Because it was deemed too similar to Raven?
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Okay, so using my logic of 1....I went ahead and got the cash into my account to get this.... I will take some time over the weekend to go through it but by and far one of my favorite things is pre gen'd PC/NPC. I love the feel of the environment they can give me. For inspiration for cyberware I find myself going through all the 1-4th edition adventures and looking over gear. For the moment I jumped right into MS Myth and I love the massive amount of detail.
I love the bullet points that sum up what you will find in all the details. Allows new players to have simple notes to follow through game play and not get overwhelmed with to much info for really short games. This is key from what I saw at Pax prime (1 hour demo).
For her Stats I am a fan of seeing a Troll portraying the Face. Looking over her skills I see great die pool for primary skill set, she will always provide a strong presence on any social interaction... Beautiful Troll for intro player to expirance really exemplifies how SR shatters fantasy concept of what to expect in a setting!
Once again Critias along with great work you honor me by throwing little Frankie into another SR product. To be part of Another aspect of SR lore (RPG this time) brings a massive smile and a hell of feeling of awesomeness. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Now to look over the other team members:)
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When I saw the announcement, the name "Digital Tools" had me assuming that we were finally going to get software to help with making characters and/or GMing. You'd think that this game, with its emphasis on computers and such, would have an officially-licensed program for these tasks.
Alas, no.
For what it's worth, SR4 has Lone Wolf's Hero Lab. Most of what I know about an SR5 version is, I think, "it's on the way" (I'm not directly involved with that side of things at all, but we freelancers poke the boss and ask, every now and then). That's up to the outside company, not CGL.
On the Mentor Spirit front: the intention is that she has Coyote (Raven) as a Mentor, and I'm doing what I can with the bosses to--hopefully--get an insert wedged in somewhere prior to the boxed set(s) going to print. Mea culpa. I did the dossiers and a few other things, other folks wrote up the cut-down rules, and we seem to have missed a hand-off, here. I'm doing what I can.
I have to say it is refreshing to see someone in the SR line take ownership of a mistake for once, even if it wasn't yours.
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To be fair as samoth, I don't think I've ever seen any of the freelancers avoid criticism or feedback...Critias specifically posted earlier asking for such.
@Critias - appreciate the feedback and efforts to get this caught prior to print. As it's meant to be an introductory product, anything to reduce confusion in the reader is nothing but good.
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The Digital Tools Box confirmed that I probably won't buy the physical boxes, but I'm glad to have bought the PDF version. The Plots and Paydata booklet is pretty good in my opinion, as are the various maps (even if some of them were already found in the SR4 Runner Toolkit) and I enjoyed the preview of the novel (now let's hope the whole thing is released before too long :p)
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Sounds like it won't be that useful for my Missions games, but I'm still going to run some short SR5 campaigns in the future so I can use it for those. Since I get enough reward tokens I'll give it a shot. :)
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Just looked through the cards, and there are several repeats:
41-43 are all Ares Predator V
58-60 are all Armor Jacket
61-63 are all Lined Coat
68-69 are both Renraku Sensei
101-102 are both Cybereyes [Rating 1, w/ flare compensation, image link, low-light vision, thermographic vision]
103-104 are both Cyberears, but with different ratings and additions, yet the same Essence, capacity and cost
Hope they are fixed before printed...
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On the Mentor Spirit front: the intention is that she has Coyote (Raven) as a Mentor, and I'm doing what I can with the bosses to--hopefully--get an insert wedged in somewhere prior to the boxed set(s) going to print.
Wait...so mechanically, Coyote is supposed to be identical to Raven? This is news to me.
And while the SR5 core book does mention that Raven is a "close cousin" to Coyote, it doesn't exactly list in under the "similar archetype" heading. Was this why a formal Coyote mentor spirit was absent from the book? Because it was deemed too similar to Raven?
For game purposes, yes, you use the Raven Mentor Spirit stats for folks following Coyote. The Magic chapter guy had his list of Mentors worked up ahead of time, a few of us (Bull and myself, FWIW) both just kind of assumed Coyote would be on there, and we both ended up writing fiction pieces with Coyote shaman (mine the Intro/Cover crew, Bull's the text for the Matrix chapter, IIRC). Then, months down the line, when the final product was getting all laid out and everyone was able to really sit down and try to digest it all at once, we went "Bwuh?"
And then we chatted over the Mentor Spirit list, and figured it would be silly to list two classical Trickster archetypes (in a book where page space was fast becoming a valuable commodity), so we slapped a line onto the fluff of Raven to make it clear that Raven also worked for that other classical SR trickster totem, Coyote.
As far as repeat cards, barring the cyberear one, I'm under the impression that's intentional. Ares Predators and Armor Jackets/Lined Coats grow on trees, for instance, so the intent was to provide multiple cards of them, I believe. Cards were someone else's bailiwick, but that's what I recall hearing, at least. That said, the cyberear thing is something I can kick upstairs and try to see if we can fix it prior to things going to print, yes.
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If there's still time to fix it before it goes to print, I recommend bringing up a few other strange things as well. These cards are supposed to be for quick reference, right? Well if that is the intent, some of them need a serious redesign, like the Adrenaline Pump for example. Who needs to quickly reference the essence and nuyen costs of a rating 1 adrenaline pump? Shouldn't the card actually say what an adrenaline pump does? Instead the whole card is taken up by an image of the gunslinger from 4th edition, with just the costs listed.
It should at the very least give a page number to check for the full text of the gear.
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Question for those that have messed with other Intro Boxed Sets from other TRPGs: have you encountered any boxed sets that include the game's character generation rules? Stripped down or otherwise?
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The (free) Call of Cthulhu quick start rules include full rules for character creation. Not exactly an intro box, but still.
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I'm really disappointed in the cards. That was the main reason I was considering the hard copy, but the art looks really low res, and in some cases it looks like they put very little effort into it. Like the bulldog art, which is solid yellow for some reason and looks like it was ripped from a first edition source book or something. A lot of the cards provide information that's largely worthless (like the spell cards, and most of the cyberware doesn't include a description of what it does), and I find it kind of disingenuous to advertise 110 cards when there's multiple copies of several pieces of gear. Overall, it just really feels like a missed opportunity.
The one exception are the program cards for the decker programs. Those are great. Custom art, a description of what it does, all you need on one card. A deck of those would be great for a decker player to swap out and keep track of his running programs. Unfortunately, there isn't a full deck of them, just Sneak, Track, Exploit, Baby Monitor, Data bomb, Defuse, Hammer, Encryption, Decryption, Biofeedback Filter and Browse. So, once again, disappointing.
Once I get home, I plan to compare the cards provided in the boxed set with those that have been already released as separate decks. Sounds like there are new ones (cyberware and matrix), but will summarize my findings for all.
Well, after quickly reviewing the spell cards, it is very clear that the ones provided in the box set are not the same as those released separately (actually, kinda happy about that). Apart from actual background, biggest difference is that some of the spells are grouped onto the same card for those in the boxed sets vs a separate card for each spell in the decks already released. There are some new spells included in the boxed set, but they seem to be linked to like spells (ie Chaos and Chaotic World).
My preference leans to the individual decks that have already been released as I think the presentation/graphics are better and prefer the idea of one item per card. However, I think that they are an interesting addition for the box set as they will provide an interesting "compilation" of items as part of the package.
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Question for those that have messed with other Intro Boxed Sets from other TRPGs: have you encountered any boxed sets that include the game's character generation rules? Stripped down or otherwise?
The PF RPG Beginner Box provides a limited set of rules for character creation...up to level 5 IIRC.
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Question @Critias: was it intentional for Coydog to not have any bound spirits?
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Yes. It's something we just didn't want to mess with for her as a starting character.
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Picked up the digital tool box yesterday. Had previously used the GM screen as my desktop background.
Noticed that the 4 runners on the GM Screen are the four examples from the digital toolbox.
Nice tie in.
Looking forward to getting the printed versions of both for Welcome to the Sixth World events. Too bad Ms Myth didn't make it onto the GM screen.
E
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I don't know much about the guys who do the Critical Glitch podcast (Criticalglitch.com) but they LOVE this supplement.
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Critias,
Is there any chance thqt the last second changes you mentioned will be reflected in the digital format?
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Critias,
Is there any chance thqt the last second changes you mentioned will be reflected in the digital format?
That's above my pay grade (IE, "I don't know.") I'm not sure what all goes into putting up a new/revised pdf of something. I'll ask when I submit my final file, though.
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Thanks Critias...your efforts are very much appreciated.
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I just do what I can for stuff with my name on it to be high-quality, is all. But thanks. The sentiment's appreciated, trust me. :)
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On the Mentor Spirit front: the intention is that she has Coyote (Raven) as a Mentor, and I'm doing what I can with the bosses to--hopefully--get an insert wedged in somewhere prior to the boxed set(s) going to print.
Wait...so mechanically, Coyote is supposed to be identical to Raven? This is news to me.
And while the SR5 core book does mention that Raven is a "close cousin" to Coyote, it doesn't exactly list in under the "similar archetype" heading. Was this why a formal Coyote mentor spirit was absent from the book? Because it was deemed too similar to Raven?
Probably because Coyote totem has no pluses and no minuses - and thus, isn't 'worth' spending points for an advantage that gives...nothing.
It's also crap. Coyote has no bonuses or penalties! Coyote has no need of such things and does not wish to be tied down by them. My shaman takes the edge (or whatever they are called now) because of RP.
Also, I intend to houserule all shamans must take a mentor spirit (for free though). Assuming I ever make the jump into 5E.
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Also, I intend to houserule all shamans must take a mentor spirit (for free though). Assuming I ever make the jump into 5E.
Why? Not all animistic religious traditions involve being chosen or volunteering to serve a single entity. Most shinto priests, for example, don't serve any one particular spirit.
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Probably because Coyote totem has no pluses and no minuses - and thus, isn't 'worth' spending points for an advantage that gives...nothing.
It's also crap. Coyote has no bonuses or penalties! Coyote has no need of such things and does not wish to be tied down by them. My shaman takes the edge (or whatever they are called now) because of RP.
In SR5, as I've tried to make clear, that is not the case. Coyote is statistically the same as Raven. The bonuses attributed to Raven are also given to Coyote shaman, in fifth edition.
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Hey Critias, any feedback from TPTB regarding the errata/corrections submitted?
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Also, I intend to houserule all shamans must take a mentor spirit (for free though). Assuming I ever make the jump into 5E.
Why? Not all animistic religious traditions involve being chosen or volunteering to serve a single entity. Most shinto priests, for example, don't serve any one particular spirit.
And they wouldn't be the shaman tradition, so it's still good? There are similarities, but in my mind, different tradition entirely.
Seeing how SR directly derived the shaman tradition from various Native American beliefs. I guess these days they are all kinda lumped together though. Maybe I'll just offer it for free instead of forcing it.
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Probably because Coyote totem has no pluses and no minuses - and thus, isn't 'worth' spending points for an advantage that gives...nothing.
It's also crap. Coyote has no bonuses or penalties! Coyote has no need of such things and does not wish to be tied down by them. My shaman takes the edge (or whatever they are called now) because of RP.
In SR5, as I've tried to make clear, that is not the case. Coyote is statistically the same as Raven. The bonuses attributed to Raven are also given to Coyote shaman, in fifth edition.
This response was mostly tongue in cheek. Coyote is different because I like Coyote and not Raven.
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Also, I intend to houserule all shamans must take a mentor spirit (for free though). Assuming I ever make the jump into 5E.
Why? Not all animistic religious traditions involve being chosen or volunteering to serve a single entity. Most shinto priests, for example, don't serve any one particular spirit.
And they wouldn't be the shaman tradition, so it's still good? There are similarities, but in my mind, different tradition entirely.
Unless you implement different traditions, which you did not clarify that you would originally, the houserule would be absurd. If you indeed go beyond Hermetic-vs-Shaman, then it's an option.
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They will all (well some I guess) come in with the new magic book. And I'm not certain serving is the right way to look at the totem/shaman relationship.
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The fact is, the Shaman tradition as described in the book is a little nebulous. But there's almost zero problem with converting the traditions from Street Magic directly. With the exception of a few issues of spirit types that don't exist yet, which can be easily fudged with some common sense. So Bigity, if you are going to allow other traditions (and really, why not?) then I think your rule makes some sense. But since the Shaman tradition as described in the book doesn't just restrict itself to animistic shamanic traditions, then I think your rule is a little heavy-handed.
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...you do know that his house rule is based on the rules for Shamans in the 2050 book, right?
Shamanic Totems
A shaman in 2050 is first introduced to magic by connecting
with his totem. A totem is simply the mentor
spirit of a shaman. If you play a shaman in 2050,
you get the Mentor Spirit quality for free. You may
choose any mentor spirit (p. 200, SR4A). Choose a
mentor spirit based on nature, or alter a less natural
mentor spirit to fit a shamanic or Native American
tradition. For example, you might choose Fire-Bringer
but change its name to Raven (not to be confused
with the mentor spirit of the same name), because
in the traditions of the Pacific Northwest, Raven stole
fire from the sun and brought it to humanity.
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2050 magic was far different from 2070s magic, Unified Magic Theory and all that. Both Shamans and Hermetics can both Bind and Summon, after all.
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Well, some people kind of liked the more stricter divide between hermetics and shamans mechanics wise. Which I personally totally get, but only defer to UMT for simplicity's sake.
That said, there was a promise that Street Grimoire would have optional rules that would make traditions more distinct from each other in mechanics. But we'll see...
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I don't mind some difference, but the massive divide there was before just doesn't work when you got X different traditions around.
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...and back then there weren't that many traditions around to begin with.
4th introduced the most tradtions that SR has ever had to date.
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I know.
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In other words: back then, less traditions, less frequent moments of headaches trying to juggle other mechanics.
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...and back then there weren't that many traditions around to begin with.
4th introduced the most tradtions that SR has ever had to date.
... Which is the whole point. If these traditions existed in 2072, there's no reason to assume they all disappeared before 2075. And mechanically, there's not a lot of difference in magic between 4th and 5th editions, so the traditions from 4th edition are a snap to convert.
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...and back then there weren't that many traditions around to begin with.
4th introduced the most tradtions that SR has ever had to date.
... Which is the whole point. If these traditions existed in 2072, there's no reason to assume they all disappeared before 2075. And mechanically, there's not a lot of difference in magic between 4th and 5th editions, so the traditions from 4th edition are a snap to convert.
...what?
Where did you pull "I don't think the other SR4 traditions will be in SR5" from my posts?
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Because you were using the rules from 2050 as a basis for explaining your decisions that take place in 2075.
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Not sure if this is a mistake, oversight, or what..
But, the Beginner Box Set "Instructions" sheet mentions the inclusion of dice.
The Alphaware "Instructions" Do not mention any inclusion of dice.
Page 5 of the Rules of the Street (Alphaware) says that the box includes dice.
So, the question. Are both sets going to contain dice? Is only the Beginner Box Set going to contain dice, and the Rules of the Street needs to be fixed to not mention that? Or is only the Alphaware Set going to contain dice, and the Instructions for the Beginner Set needs to be fixed to omit the mention?
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Per the sellsheets of the physical products, only the Beginner Box appears to have any dice.
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And now, my personal long-delayed review of the boxed sets, starting with the Beginner's Box!
Ok, something I also want to get out of the way first: While the Edge of Now and QSR books are ripped from previous releases (Edge of the first chapters from the SR5 core book and QSR being from…well, the original free QSR). That said, they are NOT the exact same thing as the original releases. Some parts have been partially rewritten and there are even some additions that weren’t present in the originals. So no, it’s not a complete copy and paste job.
For the purposes of review, I'll be looking at how useful the set is for new players and GMs (both people new to Shadowrun, or new to TRPGs in general) this will include: is everything there that needs to be, is everything explained with clarity to understand the basics, and is everything presented clearly enough for instant understanding. So for everything missing or that's not explained clear enough, it is a more serious matter for new players and GMs, especially those to TRPGs, on the impression that you leave on how the system work and it's dependent on how well you sell the system to potential new customers.
So in other words, NOT from the perspective of teaching veteran SR players how to play 5th edition (although I do intend to find that out).
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Edge of Now
Ah yes, the Edge of Now…somewhat of the more controversial addition to the box. Because yes, it is essentially the Life in the Sixth World chapter from the core rule book. Some of the passages have been slightly rewritten, and the only notable addition is a section at the end that talks about Seattle and gives a paragraph summary on each district.
Now here’s the thing: I don’t mind the fact that this is just an excerpt of the “Life in the Sixth World” chapter. What I DO mind, however, that it’s not properly labeled as such.
See, if it was labeled as such, it actually would have been an excellent decision in marketing. If they had done so, it would have served as a preview of part of the core rulebook. It could have done its job at enticing buyers to start thinking about picking up the core rulebook. Unfortunately since it isn’t labeled as such, when new players do get the new rulebook, they’ll be looking at the Life in the Sixth World chapter and going: “Wait, what? Didn’t I just read this?”
As for its’ use on getting players up to speed on the setting, well…it can or can’t work.
A 26 page document can be still a bit hefty for new players to get through. A new GM I can see reading through it with no problem, but using it for the players, not so much. In order for it to work, you’d have to hand off a copy of Edge of Now to everyone to read through. But even then some players might not want to read through it (especially if you have players where the prospect of reading through any material seems like an intimidating task). The other alternative is to read the whole document aloud to your players…and that’s hardly appealing either. While TRPGs are basically a different form of storytime, at least the players are still involved by adding to the story in their own way. And at least back in the days of story time, you had pretty pictures to entertain your juvenile young minds, Edge of Now doesn’t even have that. All it has is the image of Seattle and the logos of the megacorps, and that’s it. So, if you try to read it aloud, your players are probably going to get bored. And it’s not as if the thing is a subject of light reading; it’s a 26 page document, with no pictures, and is very text heavy. It’ll likely take up a good chunk of a session, or even an entire session. And after awhile, the players are probably just going to stop the GM and start wondering if this is one of those fabled non-dice RPGs.
So then the only option you’re left with is to just summarize Edge of Now…which chances are, summarizing the Shadowrun setting for new players is what veteran GMs have already been doing.
It’s all the more frustrating if you have the kind of players who expect the GM to be the guy to explain EVERYTHING…which tends to be especially true for newer players.
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Quick Start Rules
The notable additions are found mostly near the last third of the ruleset. For starters, the adventure in the back is the classic Food Fight adventure, Stuffer Shack, Food Fight Table and all. After that section, we have the “Next Mission” section, which not only includes plot hooks of what players could do after Food Fight, but it also provides a GM 101 section and a couple of NPC stats (unrelated to the Food Fight NPCs). Now these alone are a huge improvement over the original QSR. GM 101 section should go without saying and is a boon to any new GM. The plot hooks afterwards allow for the players to keep going after Food Fight is over especially if one were to kick off a formal campaign from there. And that NPC stats (from a Street Ganger, to a Mercenary, to a troll Businessman) for use in later adventures. Again, big help for those that want to continue, and I always welcome premade stats.
Other than that, the QSR is mostly the same as the previous one. The other difference being that the examples changed to accommodate the stats of these new pre-gen characters.
That said, there is one addition that this new QSR doesn’t have that it really, REALLY needed:
Rigger rules.
There are no rigger rules at all in the QSR set, meaning that Hardpoint the dwarf rigger is essentially unplayable in the Beginner’s Box Set as a rigger. And while the QSR does define what a drone is, it makes no reference at all that drones could be controlled in the same way as devices, or at the very least doesn’t make it explicit enough. And it doesn’t differentiate between a cyberdeck and remote control console. A GM already experienced with SR4-5 would know that you’re supposed to roll Pilot (Vehicle) + Reaction or Gunnery to get drones to do their thing, but a new GM won’t know this. And the rules don’t really give much of a hint otherwise.
Which is a damn shame, since I personally feel that the drone rigger is just as unique to the setting as the Street Shaman or the cybernetic street samurai. As far as I know Shadowrun’s the only TRPG that does anything this unique with the “wheelman” class versus any other modern/sci-fi TRPG, since you’re usually married to your vehicle Plus it’s also damn cool with the idea of having a Steel Lynx combat drone or your armored van bust through a wall to bail your team out.
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QSR Character Sheets-
We have a grand total of 5 character sheets in both this and the Alphaware box: Gentry the human decker, Coydog the elven street shaman, Hardpoint the dwarven rigger, Sledge the ork street samurai, and Ms Myth the troll face(!). The sheets themselves and their layout is overall good. The only thing that can get confusing is that for the skills, while the sheets do say that the number in the brackets is the final DP, it doesn’t say what the parentheses is supposed to be. And that they’re all cluttered together so it can be difficult to read, and lord help you if that character has a specialization.
Now I am not going to comment on how optimized the characters are; number crunching isn’t really my thing. So between this and the Alphaware review, don’t expect me to say much on the subject as I’m the wrong guy to ask for that kind of thing. That said, I will say that in terms of DPs and in the skills of what each character is supposed to be best at, the DPs tend to average out in the 10-11 dice range. Highest end is Coydog’s Spellcasting (13 dice) and Summoning (12 dice by default, 14 dice with specialization in Air Spirits). Now obviously opinions tend to vary on what’s the best optimization, but personally I think the 10-11 range works fine enough on consistently doing well at what you need to do.
One little touch I like is that for gear, they list a specific brand name with each piece of gear gives a unique flavor to each character.
Now the artwork is…a bit mixed for me. On the technical side of things, it’s very well done and detailed. I’m a bit annoyed that the same artist who did the original SR5 book cover art didn’t do But personally, there’s some hits and misses. Coydog, Sledge, and Ms Myth looks absolutely awesome and I love how they turned out. Gentry and Hardpoint on the other hand…not so much. Gentry has this really chiseled face and wide forehead, and really wacky looking hair, which altogether makes me think of Universal’s Frankenstein. Hardpoint looks…completely goofy and off. Dude’s got this creepy looking grin on his face and sporting wild, long hair. And while this reinforces the stereotype of your typical dwarf, but given that, according to his dossier in the Alphaware box, he’s described as being the most clean-cut and professional of the team, you’d think he’d make his appearance a little more…presentable?
One important note is that these characters are NOT chara-gen or Missions legal. Critias himself has admitted that he tweaked the characters to make them a little bit more powerful than your average starting runner. Personally I’m not too tweaked that new players can have a little bit of fun with characters then they normally would, and I don’t about you guys, but from my experience, newbie players aren’t going to try to stop to try to reverse-engineer pre-gen characters. And even if they wanted to, they’d have to have the core rulebook and know the rules of charagen to do so, and if they do already, what the hell are they doing stopping to play from a Beginner’s Box?
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Ms Myth’s Dossier
Oh Ms Myth…the troll face. Right now I can hear all of you optimizers grinding your teeth in frustration.
On one hand, Ms Myth’s stats are a good demonstration to new players that, despite some tweaking around (sometimes extensive, other times not), you can make an atypical build work. On the other hand, it could also have the adverse effect of making players think that the troll would be the best build for a face…which I don’t think I need to explain how inaccurate that statement is. Still, I can understand wanting to give representation to all the core metatypes…and both the troll and the ork are known for being the physical bruisers, so one of them had to get stuck with the atypical archetype. And for what Ms Myth ended up turning out to be, she still does well at her job.
The dossier part of this I’m not going to get into for now, since the majority of the other dossiers are found in the Alphaware box, and I’d rather comment on when all of them are together. As is, I will say that the dossier is very well written and from reading through it, I do think I get a very good feel of how Ms Myth is like as a character.
As for the run itself…without getting into spoilers, basically it’s Ms Myth doing a long con and setting up for an actual shadowrun. Which yeah, is an excellent idea to showcase what the face can do outside of negotiations, and is an excellent introduction to one aspect of shadowrunning to new players. The long con, when one usually thinks of Shadowrun, is not the first thing that comes up. Or, rather, when performing a run, not the first thing people think of. And whenever newbie’s first see the face, chances are they’ll think of the guy that negotiates or is the silver tongued devil. Here, they introduce some of the more elaborate things that a face could do and taking their base abilities and using them for more advanced purposes. The best part is that in terms of role-playing versus roll-playing, you could go either way. The adventure itself only gives the dice rolls and extended tests that the player should be making. And while it may be very boring to do so, it’s perfectly serviceable to do just the extended tests. That said, the adventure does explain what’s happening in each Scene enough so that for roleplaying, you’re given a lot to work with. What I typically do for these kind of moments is that I let the player roleplay the negotiation/persuasion, and if they do particularly well or bad, give them the appropriate modifiers to their DP and (if I’m feeling generous) to the threshold number. This particular approach works well for the adventure, but it can work well the other way.
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Final Verdict:
Overall…it’s ok.
The main problem I see is the lack of much goodies to the set. You get the slightly different QSR rules, some new character sheets, an excerpt of a chapter from the core book that explains the setting and not the history, a solo adventure and extensive back story on ONE of the pre-made characters, and an excerpt from an upcoming Shadowrun novel that not everyone is going to read. While some of the changes to existing material are significant enough to not be completely superficial, there isn't much else to justify the purchase if you only want the Beginner's Box. As it sits, most of the real goodies are in the Alphaware box, but we'll get there when we get there.
If you have the free QSR already, there’s not much incentive to get this box over that. Otherwise, the only time that you should get the Beginner’s Box is if you want to get both that and the Alphaware box. So as it sits, and given the price point, I’d say get the Digital Tool Box version.
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Nice review. For the pricepoint, the Digital Toolbox set its worth it if you plan on getting the physical copies, because the coupon pretty much pays for the digital set.
And the Physical copy is supposed to come with dice, which if they are generic dice, then meh. But if they are shadowrun designs, like those sweet Pegasus dice (which were selling for roughly $15 for a set of 12), then the price is worth it for me, and I may end up getting more than one...
(http://static3.paizo.com/image/product/catalog/PSIPEG/PSIPEG13410_500.jpeg)
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Great review and nice reminder on the dice :)
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FWIW, for those gnashing their teeth at another dwarven rigger or orkish street samurai or elven shaman, or complaining about the WTF-ery of a troll face -- keep in mind that though I named them, wrote 'em up, statted 'em, used 'em in fiction, and what-have-you, the basic character designs came from artwork, first and foremost. Whether the cover of SR5 (or elsewhere, for Ms. Myth), the basic metatype/archetype combo was already set in stone pretty well, before we had the ideas for these dossiers, or anything else.
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FWIW, for those gnashing their teeth at another dwarven rigger or orkish street samurai or elven shaman, or complaining about the WTF-ery of a troll face -- keep in mind that though I named them, wrote 'em up, statted 'em, used 'em in fiction, and what-have-you, the basic character designs came from artwork, first and foremost. Whether the cover of SR5 (or elsewhere, for Ms. Myth), the basic metatype/archetype combo was already set in stone pretty well, before we had the ideas for these dossiers, or anything else.
Gah, I KNEW there was something that I missed commenting about...
Personally, I think that when it came to having the archetype builds be fairly typical, the right call was made. You do want to leave new players with a fairly good impression about how the system works, and choosing which metatypes work well for what archetypes is one way of doing it. So there's no shame in doing the typical build.
For Ms Myth, despite being an atypical build, she came out fine as a face. Plus it shows that with some tweaking, you can make an atypical build work.
This is also why I think it's a bit of a mis-step to not include character generation in any form in the sets, but whatever.
Nice review. For the pricepoint, the Digital Toolbox set its worth it if you plan on getting the physical copies, because the coupon pretty much pays for the digital set.
And the Physical copy is supposed to come with dice, which if they are generic dice, then meh. But if they are shadowrun designs, like those sweet Pegasus dice (which were selling for roughly $15 for a set of 12), then the price is worth it for me, and I may end up getting more than one...
I'd like it even more if the dice were released separately...
Still, even with the coupons, if you plan to get both boxed sets, you're still paying up +$60...which is the exact same price as the core rulebook. And that +$60 would normally be the same price as the Alphaware Box. And the Digital Tool Box is priced the same as the core rulebook PDF. As it sits, there isn't much incentive on why you should be getting these products, digital or hardcopy, over the regular rule book.
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Still, even with the coupons, if you plan to get both boxed sets, you're still paying up +$60...which is the exact same price as the core rulebook. And that +$60 would normally be the same price as the Alphaware Box. And the Digital Tool Box is priced the same as the core rulebook PDF. As it sits, there isn't much incentive on why you should be getting these products, digital or hardcopy, over the regular rule book.
You do get hard copies of the cards and maps...which might be of interest to some, but not so much if you've already picked them up separately. I still think that these are solid into products, but time will tell how well a "double boxed set" is received in the market. I hope well, as I'd like to see a Betaware set eventually. ;D
I too am hoping the dice are "special"...thought there was a post aged ago indicating something along those lines, but no idea how that sorted out.
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I too am hoping the dice are "special"...thought there was a post aged ago indicating something along those lines, but no idea how that sorted out.
If they do turn out to be special, I may be buying me 3-4 copies of the beginner box set. Enough to replace all my plain, ugly generic dice with purty dice...
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Had similar thoughts, but more a function of how many dice are actually included. 8)
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You do get hard copies of the cards and maps...which might be of interest to some, but not so much if you've already picked them up separately. I still think that these are solid into products, but time will tell how well a "double boxed set" is received in the market. I hope well, as I'd like to see a Betaware set eventually. ;D
I believe they said that a Betaware box is in the cards, but that it'll be closer to the Runner's Toolkit from SR4. So there's that.
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I'm hoping that I over looked this, but the one thing that I haven't seen were quick reference cards like the ones that came with the SR4 Runner's Tool Kit. I'm a bit disappointed because those were very handy specially if you have new players (or a new GM). I purchased the Alphaware hoping that there would be a version of these cards because of the fact that I'm teaching people completely new to the game. Yes, I know I could make up my own but they wouldn't look as nice or have that nice laminate on them.
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I'm hoping that I over looked this, but the one thing that I haven't seen were quick reference cards like the ones that came with the SR4 Runner's Tool Kit. I'm a bit disappointed because those were very handy specially if you have new players (or a new GM). I purchased the Alphaware hoping that there would be a version of these cards because of the fact that I'm teaching people completely new to the game. Yes, I know I could make up my own but they wouldn't look as nice or have that nice laminate on them.
...that's mostly because you were looking in the wrong place all along.
The ACTUAL Runner's Toolkit for SR5 is the "Betaware" box that's coming out at a much later date.
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I'm hoping that I over looked this, but the one thing that I haven't seen were quick reference cards like the ones that came with the SR4 Runner's Tool Kit. I'm a bit disappointed because those were very handy specially if you have new players (or a new GM). I purchased the Alphaware hoping that there would be a version of these cards because of the fact that I'm teaching people completely new to the game. Yes, I know I could make up my own but they wouldn't look as nice or have that nice laminate on them.
Something like this (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/121423/Shadowrun-Gear-Cards-SR5-Series-1)?
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No, he means the rule-cheat-sheets, quick overviews of the different steps in an action.
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Yeah, found a version of the cheat sheet on reddit that will tie me over for now.
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Yeah, found a version of the cheat sheet on reddit that will tie me over for now.
Hey Jackal - can you link to the reddit post that lead you there?
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Yeah, found a version of the cheat sheet on reddit that will tie me over for now.
Hey Jackal - can you link to the reddit post that lead you there?
Sure, got it right Here (http://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/1pw6zy/5e_shadowrun_cheat_sheets/).
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Wait, what? Where does the Mental Limit come from when Spellcasting? That's not how it works. And why are Reagents and Edge not mentioned? And the Summoning page doesn't even mention the Force as Limit, Ranged Combat doesn't mention Accuracy as Limit and it's still stuck in SR4's modDamage>modArmor instead of modDamage>=modArmor, Defense doesn't mention that you can still use Full Defense in melee and that it can stack with the other 3 defense options. I don't know enough about some of the other subjects to be able to see whether the thing is correct, but it has some big flaws in it that seem to come from misunderstandings and SR4-rules stuck in their head.
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First off, which rule set area you referencing?
Second, reagents, the other defensive actions and interrupt actions I get leaving out for the sake of keeping the gameplay simplified.
EDIT: I assume you mean the QSR in the Beginner's Box since the other things you mentioned are present in the Rules of the Street?
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No, I mean in the cheat-sheet that Jackal linked to.
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No, I mean in the cheat-sheet that Jackal linked to.
...oh.
Well, please clarify in your post before some poor schlock like me gets confused. :)
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But it's a direct reply to the post before mine... -,-
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But it's a direct reply to the post before mine... -,-
The quote button means we don't have to assume. The reply button means we do. Not making assumptions is often safer.
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Updated version was just released on DTRPG.
Not sure of actual changes yet, but heads up. ;D
Edit: Just received an email from CGL as well:
Hello! We just wanted to let you know that the Shadowrun: Digital Tools Box files have been updated to include errata and other corrections. Your downloads have been reset and are now available! Thanks!