Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Stormdrake on <11-17-10/1438:32>
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Have been playing with this idea for some time but now have a player who may end up with a full blown Horror Mark do to his own actions. Can someone give me a good solid description of what such a mark would do if translated into SR from ED? If not will just make something up, lol.
I view this as a way of allowing the Horrors to have influence now rather than doing something to the mana level to allow them to manifest.
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The closest thing to horror marks in SR would be ritual magic but beefed up. Marks allow horrors to use the targets senses, use it's abilities on them, and use them to cast their abilities.
So ritual spellcasting without any of the drawbacks would be a good starting point.
I may not be completely accurate I just started reading Earthdawn again.
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I don't think a Mark would work without the Horror in question residing on Earth already. Or at least on a connected Metaplane.
But basically, a Mark is a gate to someone's doul. That lucky Horror can use any of his powers through the Marked one, and has a telepathic link with him at all times.
This is how a Mark works in Earthdawn 3rd edition.
This terrible ability allows Horrors to mark victims and items,
thereby linking the Horror and the target. When cast on a
target, a Horror mark becomes embedded into the target’s True
Pattern, making it difficult even for other Horrors to detect. To use
this power, the Horror must be able to see the target.
(game mechanics out)
The Horror mark links the Horror to the target over vast distances
and allows the Horror to use any of its abilities against or through
the target when it is within 10 miles of the Horror. For a range up to
100 miles, the Horror mark allows the Horror to take actions against
a target character that do not directly cause damage, and communication
between the Horror and the target extends for 5,000 miles.
Horror marks last a year and a day, and the Horror may renew the
Horror mark whenever it is within 100 miles of the target.
And - some Horrors can mark Items and Places even...
P.S. That 'year and a day' part is ED-specific. It might work different now...
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And the rules are often different for each type of Horror. Some can only mark through intermediaries (cursed objects or locations) while others can only mark through touch (or other extreme proximity). There are a few where the mark must be taken voluntarily, although coercion can be involved.
Also, I don't recommend introducing Horrors into Shadowrun just yet. There are a handful floating around, but they are extraordinarily rare at this point. Unless you want to make a campaign around one of the Horrors attempting to create a bridge before the world is ready, similar to the Dragonheart Trilogy.
Horrors are powerful, intelligent, viscious, and patient. That combination of traits makes them top tier enemies. Use at your own risk.
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Sounds like Spirit Pacts are the closest thing, just expand on them some.
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Spirit packs are about as close to Horrors and Horror Marks as your kid brother bumping your car with a remote control Tonka truck is to being run over by a train carrying semi-trailers. Horrors are nasty, and no good comes from them.
There is a Horror in Earthdawn that convices people that it is one of the gods of the setting, sending heroes out on righteous quests. It then tells them of a ritual that will banish a great evil forever. When they perform the ritual, it tears off pieces of each of their bodies to form one for it to use on the physical plane. Needless to say, very few survive the experience, and they just allowed a terrible evil to move about freely in the world.
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There is a Horror in Earthdawn that convices people that it is one of the gods of the setting, sending heroes out on righteous quests. It then tells them of a ritual that will banish a great evil forever. When they perform the ritual, it tears off pieces of each of their bodies to form one for it to use on the physical plane. Needless to say, very few survive the experience, and they just allowed a terrible evil to move about freely in the world.
Oh - he does that with the same heroes that managed to kill his physical form, to be specific. :P
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Yeah, cause why wouldn't you? His victory speech just breaks down to "Neener Neener Neener" at that point.
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The way I figure it, the mana level is lower so any Horror that could reach through wouldn't be AS powerful. Spirit pacts (which even RAW can suck for the PC) seem to fill the niche. They're just more deliberately abusive with their end of the bargain and can provide some fascinatingly evil powers.
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The thing about Horrors is, if the mana level is too low for them to excercise their power, then they either leave or hole up somewhere in a mana heavy/corrupted region which will allow their power to be useful. Some may have plans that need to be implemented outside of those habitible zones, but when outside those areas said Horror is going to manipulate for all it can.
While it might grant some of the boons that the pacts mention, there will always be a downside. And that downside will either kill the PC or corrupt the PC beyond the player's control. And that is not a fun game. Well, once in a while it could be, but I would hasten to add that it would have to be worked out with the player beforehand that his PC is gonna end up in the crapper and likely result in a TPK.
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That's a bit double-edged. There are Horrors powerfull enough to exist in the current magic level, like Yrsgranthe, Bone Crown, and others who already tried to get here. On the other hand, there should be also less powerfull Horrors, who find the current magic level enough... By reading the ED introductory history from the rulebook you can see many minor Horrors manifested quite early. And powerfull ones too - like the one who was behind the fall of Scytha - a dwarven kingdom, in which all newborn died in a few weeks, like something was draining their lifeforce... That was quite early, so magic level wasn't very high, and tell me you don't think a powerfull Horror was behind all that.
If you want to introduce Horrors in the game, do so with minor ones. There are Horrors, who you'd consider weak in the physical sense, that have enough brains and manipulative power to be a serious threat to the group. Now, what if they are hired to catch one?
The way I figure it, the mana level is lower so any Horror that could reach through wouldn't be AS powerful. Spirit pacts (which even RAW can suck for the PC) seem to fill the niche. They're just more deliberately abusive with their end of the bargain and can provide some fascinatingly evil powers.
Well, not really. Whatever the Horror promises is either a lie (no cake), or will be twisted in such a cruel and painfull way, that it will probably drive you insane. There is no 'pact' in Marking. Just an alien, evil entity making the Marked one his bitch. Period.
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The mana level may be right, but now you have a cyberzombie with the Dragon Heart keeping Horrors from coming over too early... ;)
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The mana level may be right, but now you have a cyberzombie with the Dragon Heart keeping Horrors from coming over too early... ;)
The big ones? Sure. But what about the minor ones?
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He's watching the gap for all horrors. And only the bigger ones would be powerful to build a bridge over the gap. Smaller ones would "tagalong" across the gap, but they can't bridge it on their own. You need MORE mana for the smaller ones to come across.
You're thinking that as the mana level goes up, the more powerful can come across when, actually, it's the inverse.
Let's assume that the Mana level is measurable on a scale of 1 to 10. You're assuming that if we're currently at a Mana level of 2, then all creatures on the other side of the gap of level two can make it across. Instead, it means the only creatures of power level 8 or greater can make it across.
Think of it this way. The Mana level goes from 1 to 10, and the gap between our world and theirs is 10. We're currently at Mana level X, so only creatures with power level 10-X have the "reach" to make it across the gap.
Okay, that's doesn't make sense either, otherwise the most powerful would be able to come across now...
Gods, I hate magical theory. Much easier to just tell the mage to blow up the building. Let me work on my theory a bit and I'll get back to you.
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The thing about the Horrors is that they don't just need mana or a high mana level. The Horrors have to keep a portion of their attention on just being here, otherwise they get snapped back to their reality. The old wards from back in the 4th age worked on that principle: They were a kind of mental trap for astral beings, pulling some of their attention away from where they were and what they were doing. The Horror either backed off or it got spat back to its realm. The really, really focused ones could maintain enough integrity in order to breach the ward. With the sheer number of Horrors that showed up for the Scourge, this meant a lot of kaers got breached.
What this also suggests is that the lower mana level means that powerful, and intelligent, Horrors expend more effort staying on this plane. The less potent ones have a harder time crossing the threshold, but don't need to work as hard to stay here (less power brought over, less effort). They would effectively ride any small spikes that would periodically crop up (like the spike babies of elves and dwarfs on Earth), while powerful ones might come over but unless they were very focused they would bounce back home quickly when the spike faded.
This would vary according to the "species" of Horror, and would mean that any that managed to stay during the downcycle (like Yrsgrathe) had to work very hard to maintain themselves in high mana/specialized areas.
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He's watching the gap for all horrors. And only the bigger ones would be powerful to build a bridge over the gap. Smaller ones would "tagalong" across the gap, but they can't bridge it on their own. You need MORE mana for the smaller ones to come across.
Okay, that's doesn't make sense either, otherwise the most powerful would be able to come across now...
Gods, I hate magical theory. Much easier to just tell the mage to blow up the building. Let me work on my theory a bit and I'll get back to you.
Well, they have enough skill to work with what they've got, reaching into our world on a micro-level and influencing plots to open the way from inside, as illustrated by all those examples in this thread. That's why they're so powerfull. But wvwn they need mana spikes and cults dedicated to their goals to stay.
And as The_Gun_Nut wrote - they could work something out. But with difficulty. That's why metaplot characters managed to spoil their fun for now...
I bet in some time - maybe with the finale of the Dawn of Artifacts series - there will be a Big Bad Horror to beat for the players and their allies.
Now imagine all that power contained in artifacts that remained from the Fourth World used to create a mana spike. That'd be neat for Bone Crown, for example.
This would vary according to the "species" of Horror, and would mean that any that managed to stay during the downcycle (like Yrsgrathe) had to work very hard to maintain themselves in high mana/specialized areas.
As with the Great Dragons, and metahumans, who needed a certain amount of magic to survive. Some Horrors might have devised a way to stay hidden during downtime. But they still would need more magic to wake up.
With some exceptions. Verjigorm, for example. I don't think he even plays by the same rules...
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Remind me to talk about my theory about the origin of dragons and the Horrors.
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Is it far off the one in Dragons?
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@Kot: Yeah... It's exactly why I hate magical theory. It's about as stable as String theory ;D
Basically, think of the Horrors as that great mystical Jedi handwave from the GM. "Don't worry about how they got here, just figure out how to stop them."
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Is it far off the one in Dragons?
It's based off the legend of Verjigorm in Horrors. I think the dragons came from the same metaplanar space as the Horrors, possibly to escape them. They migrated here, and started making alterations of the native populace before realizing that things here are different and don't react the same way that creatures did on the previous metaplane. It fixed them in place here (so they don't vanish in the downcycle, but that could be for another reason), and created a slew of other problems.
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Actually I believe the Horrors have two considerations for crossing-over:
1) How much power ti takes to bridge the distance. the rubric: If a score of 10 is needed, then Mana at 2, needs Horro of power 8...
2) How much ambiant Mana they need to survive. (Evanesence) - I always assumed they needed half their power, so IF they need 1/2 Power rating, then a Horror rateda t an 8 needs Mana at a 4...
So while many could cross over early, they could not survive...some used the spikes of mana to allow weaker Horrors to cross over MUCH earlier.
And I would assume that the Innoculations that Dunkalzahn demanded occur for all infants born after October 29th, 2060...might have been a reference to the Baby killing Horror being able to return...
Plus there is a cache of imprisoned spirits and Horrors in Australia (reference the original novel trilogy)
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And I would assume that the Innoculations that Dunkalzahn demanded occur for all infants born after October 29th, 2060...might have been a reference to the Baby killing Horror being able to return...
Plus there is a cache of imprisoned spirits and Horrors in Australia (reference the original novel trilogy)
Well, you have a point there. That'd be it, probably. ;P
And as for those spirits, they were great forms, i think that's from the trilogy that was translated to polish as a promotional for the 2nd edition SR. And i think the one that the main character freed was a Spider Great Form spirit...
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And I would assume that the Innoculations that Dunkalzahn demanded occur for all infants born after October 29th, 2060...might have been a reference to the Baby killing Horror being able to return...
Wait... whoa...
What if the inoculations were for a mutated breed of VITAS (or something similiar) that "jumped" to becoming a Technovirus? Think about it... They are now finding all the Technocritters coming out of the woodwork, the next step would be computer viruses that don't just infect computers.
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That'd be even worse... Hmmm... So, what's with those kids that didn't get it? And - why the hell D would know something like that?
P.S. That Horror isn't anything, but a mention in the ED history. So it could be anything. Even not a Horror at all. It could be that someone just used really, really evil magic.
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D knew a LOT of what was coming, why not the new wireless and technomagi? He saw the orichalcum rush and such...
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D knew a LOT of what was coming, why not the new wireless and technomagi? He saw the orichalcum rush and such...
But that was more because he saw these before. Like the Orichalcum Wars of the Fourth World. And yes, there probably will be fighting over orichalcum again. ;P
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I always thought Big D's interest in the Matrix was partially driven by how cool the little humans could be, and how useful the Matrix could be to keep purely astral entities out.
He and every immortal saw a pale reflection of the Astral.
D saw a place to share that would work even during the next scourage.
I agree most Big Ds predictions were around the cycle of magic. I always assumed his long term dates were calculated in relation to the global mana levels.
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Oh, I agree. His predictions were around the cycle of magic.
Now, being the curious little lizard he was, what if he started comparing the Matrix and it's earlier Internet/WWW cousins to the mana ebb and flows. In other words, he starts looking at Technology in the same way as Mana. Starts applying some of his mystical formulas to the Technology curve and, voilá, starts to see patterns forming. At first, it humors him, but then the otaku appear, just when and where the formulas tell him they will...
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Well, he was always curious like that, and had a soft spot for metahumans. Some even survived the Scourge in his lair (though they could've been drakes).
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He saved an entire village of Namegivers (ED word for "sentients"). That village became dedicated to their savior.
That wyrm knew how to hit people's happy buttons.