Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: StarManta on <06-17-13/1705:23>
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To everyone who worked on the SR5 rules, I just want to say, you've finally nailed hacking. Previously the hacker has always been there because you needed a hacker, but now, I think people are actually going to want to play a decker. Thank you.
Hacking is now integrated into the rest of the game, it involves some actual critical thought and strategy, and you don't feel like a stooge for choosing to play a decker, even when the shooting starts. And it now pays off to make a complex hacker character, instead of the typical SR4 "Whatever computer action I'm doing, my dice pool is 9" builds.
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Offer any details?
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A couple of things:
- Almost all extended tests are gone. Instead of an extended test taking a bunch of action phases to hack a commlink, you now make one or more individual tests to gain "marks" on the commlink, and different numbers of marks allow you to make different kinds of actions. This allows hackers to be a part of the game, including during combat and such, rather than a separate minigame that bores the rest of your players to tears.
- There are a few different ways to get marks, and each way has "side effects" for your net hits, either Matrix damage or free hits as if from a Matrix Perception check. This lets you think strategically about what actions to use, rather than simply "oh I'm hacking, time to roll the single dice pool I use for every hacking action and wait for the GM to tell me I win."
- Cybercombat is no longer simply a thing you use when you get caught, but an integrated part of your hacking strategy. You can attack a node and drop its dice pool to make it easier to hack on later actions.
- The way hacking devices linked to commlinks has been both improved and clarified.
- The dice pools are now done with ATTR+Skill like every other test in the game, and the Limit for your hits is what's based on your deck's attributes.
- The addition of GOD means that even hacking easier commlinks carries some risk, since every hit on every defense test against your hacks gets added to your cumulative "overwatch score" (whether they successfully defend or not); once that score hits 40, the Man converges on you, dealing hefty damage and dumping your ass offline. Your overwatch score can be reset by rebooting, but that also resets any marks you've gained, so deciding how long to stay in control of the devices you've 0wned is a risk/reward decision as well.
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How do non hacker defend against hacks? Firewall? ICE / agents? Nothing?
MfG
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A non-cyberdeck commlink has a Device Rating which serves as its Data Processing and Firewall attributes, so a good commlink can defend itself just as well as a good deck (it just can't attack).
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Can non hacker buy a deck and use ICE/agents to "minor-hack" as in SR4?
MfG
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Yes, but decks are really expensive. When you buy a deck, you may as well just be a hacker at that point.
The cheapest - CHEAPEST - cyberdeck is 49500 ¥, and its highest attribute is only 4.
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oO
So no more the child hacker hacking his own marks in school, deckers need to be rich people as in SR3.
*sigh*
MfG
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Yes, but decks are really expensive. When you buy a deck, you may as well just be a hacker at that point.
The cheapest - CHEAPEST - cyberdeck is 49500 ¥, and its highest attribute is only 4.
Have they released the info on how they are handling TMs
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Yes. Complex forms now work more like spells, Sprites haven't changed much, and the TM's equivalent "deck" attributes are derived from his mental stats as in SR4.
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oO
So no more the child hacker hacking his own marks in school, deckers need to be rich people as in SR3.
*sigh*
MfG
Or they steal one, borrow one from someone, or eventually build their own (once those rules are out, though you can easily claim this to be how you did it as part of backstory and during chargen). Money, especially at chargen, is just one way you explain how you got what you got.
But well, yeah. Decking is now VERY dangerous. StarManta is underselling how reactive the new Matrix is now. When we were creating the new Matrix, Aaron had a mantra that I loved: "The Matrix HATES you". Deckers are now a foreign organism in the matrix, a disease, a parasite, a cancer. And the Matrix now has effectively white blood cells running all through its programming designed to defeat and kill those invading organisms.
Decking is now as dangerous as everything else Shadowrunners do. And you need to be highly skilled, well equipped, and probably missing a few brain cells to be a decker now.
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Is this cyberpunk view at least part of the entire world for every non-wage-slave?
SYL
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Yes, but decks are really expensive. When you buy a deck, you may as well just be a hacker at that point.
The cheapest - CHEAPEST - cyberdeck is 49500 ¥, and its highest attribute is only 4.
Have they released the info on how they are handling TMs
I do wonder how t'mancers are compared to deckers, without the need to spend gobs of money on a deck do they also need to mark,mark, mark stuff or do they follow a different philosophy?
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I'd actually like to know what they did in 5th about technomancers having to lean an entirely different version of their core skills than Hackers/Deckers.
Is that still in 5th?
Did they improve on clarity of what that meant, or is it just gone now?
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So...is the most expensive Cyberdeck an Excalibur again? At 1 Million Nuyen?
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So...is the most expensive Cyberdeck an Excalibur again? At 1 Million Nuyen?
Wow! That brought me back to the old days.
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So...is the most expensive Cyberdeck an Excalibur again? At 1 Million Nuyen?
Wow! That brought me back to the old days.
Its why I asked. Nostalgia features in a lot RL, so..I want to know if they went that way again..
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Yes, but decks are really expensive. When you buy a deck, you may as well just be a hacker at that point.
The cheapest - CHEAPEST - cyberdeck is 49500 ¥, and its highest attribute is only 4.
Have they released the info on how they are handling TMs
I do wonder how t'mancers are compared to deckers, without the need to spend gobs of money on a deck do they also need to mark,mark, mark stuff or do they follow a different philosophy?
Just going through the freebeet pdfs, it looks like the chargen rules kinda limit a TM on chargen.
You have to be priority A, B, or C for a TM
A has res 6, 2 rating 5 res skills, 5 complex forms
B has Res 4, 2 rating 4 res skills, 2 complex forms
C has res 3, 1 complex form
So in the end, you're probably going to have them starting off on par because the technos will probably start off with resources in C or below, while I'm betting most deckers will be priority A or B on the resources.
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To everyone who worked on the SR5 rules, I just want to say, you've finally nailed hacking. Previously the hacker has always been there because you needed a hacker, but now, I think people are actually going to want to play a decker. Thank you.
Hacking is now integrated into the rest of the game, it involves some actual critical thought and strategy, and you don't feel like a stooge for choosing to play a decker, even when the shooting starts. And it now pays off to make a complex hacker character, instead of the typical SR4 "Whatever computer action I'm doing, my dice pool is 9" builds.
While I am really happy the matrix is improved, I don't think many people saw Deckers the way you are describing them. They are bad ass in 4e, they add probably more to the team than any other archetype. It was way too slow and so getting rid of most the extended tests is great. But in the different gorups I''ve played in there never was a shortage of people wanting to play deckers.
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To everyone who worked on the SR5 rules, I just want to say, you've finally nailed hacking. Previously the hacker has always been there because you needed a hacker, but now, I think people are actually going to want to play a decker. Thank you.
Hacking is now integrated into the rest of the game, it involves some actual critical thought and strategy, and you don't feel like a stooge for choosing to play a decker, even when the shooting starts. And it now pays off to make a complex hacker character, instead of the typical SR4 "Whatever computer action I'm doing, my dice pool is 9" builds.
While I am really happy the matrix is improved, I don't think many people saw Deckers the way you are describing them. They are bad ass in 4e, they add probably more to the team than any other archetype. It was way too slow and so getting rid of most the extended tests is great. But in the different gorups I''ve played in there never was a shortage of people wanting to play deckers.
In my group our hacker is by far the most important person in a lot of situations. We literally had a few runs where we made a plan, and he did all of the work minus some really small things.
But as a player or GM, the extended tests were rediculous. Itsbasically "lets pull out my massive wad of dice and see how many hours it takes me to find this, that and the other" and if they have time then there isn't a time when they aren't getting the information (which is resulting in me having some things now where they can't find the info without hacking specific targets).
But the biggest problem I thought of the entire thing was that it was essentially playing two different games, and if the meat side or cyberside was doing something, everyone else was twiddling their thumbs.
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To everyone who worked on the SR5 rules, I just want to say, you've finally nailed hacking. Previously the hacker has always been there because you needed a hacker, but now, I think people are actually going to want to play a decker. Thank you.
Hacking is now integrated into the rest of the game, it involves some actual critical thought and strategy, and you don't feel like a stooge for choosing to play a decker, even when the shooting starts. And it now pays off to make a complex hacker character, instead of the typical SR4 "Whatever computer action I'm doing, my dice pool is 9" builds.
While I am really happy the matrix is improved, I don't think many people saw Deckers the way you are describing them. They are bad ass in 4e, they add probably more to the team than any other archetype. It was way too slow and so getting rid of most the extended tests is great. But in the different gorups I''ve played in there never was a shortage of people wanting to play deckers.
In my group our hacker is by far the most important person in a lot of situations. We literally had a few runs where we made a plan, and he did all of the work minus some really small things.
But as a player or GM, the extended tests were rediculous. Itsbasically "lets pull out my massive wad of dice and see how many hours it takes me to find this, that and the other" and if they have time then there isn't a time when they aren't getting the information (which is resulting in me having some things now where they can't find the info without hacking specific targets).
But the biggest problem I thought of the entire thing was that it was essentially playing two different games, and if the meat side or cyberside was doing something, everyone else was twiddling their thumbs.
That sums up my experience as well. It was way too slow and it was too seperated. While the decker would have fun decking, that time which with those extended tests seemed to take forever was in its own seperate game time. Its a group game so it failed in that regard so I am happy with the reported changes. Still no one felt like a stooge playing the decker because he was awesome.
And yeah we have had multiple runs solved with a decent plan and the decker doing almost all the work. For example we recently did a run from Ghost Cartels(yeahs its old but we never got around to it) the mission was to raid this doc wagon facility and steal a body and all the autopsy evidence. The decker forged release docs to lone star(one of the pepple fighting to get the body) with a court order, updated the seattle court system to reflect that, stole a lone star meat wagon and sat in the passanger seat while the players drove up and accepted delivery of the body and all the evidence, he then hacked the building and wiped the back up files. Litterally the rest of the party just drove to the building and picked up the body after flashing some papers and a smile. I am sure I could come up with something to go wrong, but it was a solid plan and I'm not going to shoot it down just to add conflict or because the player didn't think of some basic hacking thing his decker would have known ot whatever.
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The High End deck is indeed the Excalibur, and while it's not 1,000,000¥, it's close. Over 800K¥
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If you let your hacker hit that many major systems with no ill consequences, it's not the game that made it that easy, it's you. It's your job to instill a sense of reality and consequence. It's your job to make the government and corporations something to fear, not just mindless and weak corporations.
Damnit man.
(http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/sam-one-job.gif)
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Yes, but decks are really expensive. When you buy a deck, you may as well just be a hacker at that point.
The cheapest - CHEAPEST - cyberdeck is 49500 ¥, and its highest attribute is only 4.
Have they released the info on how they are handling TMs
I do wonder how t'mancers are compared to deckers, without the need to spend gobs of money on a deck do they also need to mark,mark, mark stuff or do they follow a different philosophy?
Just going through the freebeet pdfs, it looks like the chargen rules kinda limit a TM on chargen.
You have to be priority A, B, or C for a TM
A has res 6, 2 rating 5 res skills, 5 complex forms
B has Res 4, 2 rating 4 res skills, 2 complex forms
C has res 3, 1 complex form
So in the end, you're probably going to have them starting off on par because the technos will probably start off with resources in C or below, while I'm betting most deckers will be priority A or B on the resources.
Depends on a number of things about T'mancers. If they don't use decks what do they use? stats? Can you buy complex forms through karma? Do they use the normal cyber skills or do they have their own skills? What about sprites? Do they need to mark like deckers?
It's interesting to see all the information about deckers, but there are two different Matrix users in the game if one is clearly better than the other at the Matrix someone somewhere messed up.
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Depends on a number of things about T'mancers. If they don't use decks what do they use? stats? Can you buy complex forms through karma? Do they use the normal cyber skills or do they have their own skills? What about sprites? Do they need to mark like deckers?
Stats, yes, basically just like SR4. Yes, they buy complex forms through karma, although they're not equivalent to programs anymore, but that's okay because programs aren't like SR4 program anymore, they're more like qualities for your commlink, and CFs are spells for the matrix. They use the same skills. Sprites are largely unchanged from 4th. Yes, they need to mark like deckers.
It's interesting to see all the information about deckers, but there are two different Matrix users in the game if one is clearly better than the other at the Matrix someone somewhere messed up.
I haven't yet tried a TM build in 5th, but it couldn't possibly be more unbalanced than they were in 4th.
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How does VR work? I had 5 IPs in VR with my current hacker. Should I retool him for AR (hack and gun) or is full-on VR hotsim still viable?
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Hot-sim is still available, and still really fast.
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After pouring over the book for the better part of a week, I believe the differences as follows:
- The Technomancer's matrix stats are determined by his attributes, and unlike a decker, they cannot reconfigure their attributes.
- Tm's cannot run programs, be a slave or master, be part of a PAN or WAN, or gain a +2 VR bonus when using Resonance actions (because they are not matrix actions). Technomancers take matrix damage as stun damage, and have no Matrix damage track.
- When using Resonance actions, TMs do not accrue OS (overwatch score). Technomancers can use devices like decks or commlinks, but cannot use Resonance Actions while doing so. Tm's gain a +2 to matrix perception checks.
- Complex forms now function like spells, including drain and choosing force (in this case 'Level').
All together, I've drawn the following conclusions, concerning differences between Deckers and TMs:
- Deckers have more versatility (like SR4) because they can not only reconfigure their decks, but also change programs as the situation dictates. They may have as many programs as they can buy.
- Technomancers have more upward growth, but less versatility. Complex forms are powerful, and can hedge around OS, but TMs are limited to only a few CFs to start with, and may only know Res x 2 total.
All together, the difference between TM/Decker/Rigger is new very defined as there are marked difference between how each of them are played, while not making the rules radically different.
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Depends on a number of things about T'mancers. If they don't use decks what do they use? stats? Can you buy complex forms through karma? Do they use the normal cyber skills or do they have their own skills? What about sprites? Do they need to mark like deckers?
Stats, yes, basically just like SR4. Yes, they buy complex forms through karma, although they're not equivalent to programs anymore, but that's okay because programs aren't like SR4 program anymore, they're more like qualities for your commlink, and CFs are spells for the matrix. They use the same skills. Sprites are largely unchanged from 4th. Yes, they need to mark like deckers.
It's interesting to see all the information about deckers, but there are two different Matrix users in the game if one is clearly better than the other at the Matrix someone somewhere messed up.
I haven't yet tried a TM build in 5th, but it couldn't possibly be more unbalanced than they were in 4th.
The problem with TMs as I had Someone who had played a TM in fourth and read the matrix rules for 5th said to me is that since they can not join PANs or WANs, a technomancer can not keep your gun with a wireless smart link from getting bricked or your grenades from being exploded. Since TMs can not play defense they are now in a symbiotic relationship with hackers rather than the party just needing a hacker or a TM.
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After pouring over the book for the better part of a week, I believe the differences as follows:
- The Technomancer's matrix stats are determined by his attributes, and unlike a decker, they cannot reconfigure their attributes.
- Tm's cannot run programs, be a slave or master, be part of a PAN or WAN, or gain a +2 VR bonus when using Resonance actions (because they are not matrix actions). Technomancers take matrix damage as stun damage, and have no Matrix damage track.
- When using Resonance actions, TMs do not accrue OS (overwatch score). Technomancers can use devices like decks or commlinks, but cannot use Resonance Actions while doing so. Tm's gain a +2 to matrix perception checks.
- Complex forms now function like spells, including drain and choosing force (in this case 'Level').
All together, I've drawn the following conclusions, concerning differences between Deckers and TMs:
- Deckers have more versatility (like SR4) because they can not only reconfigure their decks, but also change programs as the situation dictates. They may have as many programs as they can buy.
- Technomancers have more upward growth, but less versatility. Complex forms are powerful, and can hedge around OS, but TMs are limited to only a few CFs to start with, and may only know Res x 2 total.
All together, the difference between TM/Decker/Rigger is new very defined as there are marked difference between how each of them are played, while not making the rules radically different.
What about Sprites?
What stops a T'mancer from using a deck?
How many complex forms are there? How many can you buy at chagen?
It's one thing to say Deckers have more versatility and Technomancers have more upward growth but what stops a T'mancer from doing both?
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What about Sprites?
What stops a T'mancer from using a deck?
How many complex forms are there? How many can you buy at chagen?
It's one thing to say Deckers have more versatility and Technomancers have more upward growth but what stops a T'mancer from doing both?
Very good questions:
- Sprites are very much the same as in SR4, (Attributes determined by level, same types of tasks) and the powers have been adjusted to reflect the new matrix rules.
- Nothing prevents a Technomancer from using a deck, As I said above. But when doing so, the TM is prevented from using Resonance actions, (therefore, no sprites, or complex forms.)
- Currently there are 14 complex forms, you gain some depending on your resonance/magic priority, can buy extra at character creation at 4 karma each, and may have a max at character creation of your logic attribute.
Maybe Upward Growth was incorrect. Maybe I should have said Specialization, or Power.
But I suppose shoehorning any archetype into only one type or word would also be doing a disservice, you can absolutely have a specialized Decker, or a Versatile Technomancer, depending on your build.
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- Sprites are very much the same as in SR4, (Attributes determined by level, same types of tasks) and the powers have been adjusted to reflect the new matrix rules.
I like how Sprites have a "level" now ;)
That's funny and cool at the same time.
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Tm's cannot run programs, be a slave or master, be part of a PAN or WAN
WTF? I guess that means Dronomancers don't show up anymore?
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Nope, No dronomancers that I can see. To Rig, you need a RCC. I imagine a technomancer could use one to rig, but as with cyberdecks, her resonance/sprites/complex forms would be of very little use.
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Nope, No dronomancers that I can see. To Rig, you need a RCC. I imagine a technomancer could use one to rig, but as with cyberdecks, her resonance/sprites/complex forms would be of very little use.
I could imagine an echo which replicates the RCC. Maybe in he matrix rule book.
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To Rig, you need a RCC.
I've actually been looking for this, is it actually stated in the rules that you need an RCC to rig? As far as I can tell RCC's are mostly useful for maintaining connections to multiple drones.
More relevantly, I guess, can you be a rigger/decker and use your cyberdeck instead, if you're willing to forego quickly jumping from one drone to another? The rigger chapter seems to imply that such use is possible with commlinks, so if I'm reading that correctly, a cyberdeck could naturally serve as well.
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To Rig, you need a RCC.
I've actually been looking for this, is it actually stated in the rules that you need an RCC to rig? As far as I can tell RCC's are mostly useful for maintaining connections to multiple drones.
More relevantly, I guess, can you be a rigger/decker and use your cyberdeck instead, if you're willing to forego quickly jumping from one drone to another? The rigger chapter seems to imply that such use is possible with commlinks, so if I'm reading that correctly, a cyberdeck could naturally serve as well.
The one necessary thing needed to rig is the VCR (Vehicle Control Rig) It's an implant and comes in 3 ratings.
Beyond that you can use a commlink to create a PAN or WAN of your drones. But you should use a RCC (Rigger Command Console) Which is similar to a Cyberdeck. The RCC has Noise reduction and can share autosofts between drones. It also comes with a rating and data processing and firewall scores.
The big thing this means is that Dronomancers are no longer possible, unless they want to take the hit to essence and resonance, and be unable to hack and rig at the same time.
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The one necessary thing needed to rig is the VCR (Vehicle Control Rig) It's an implant and comes in 3 ratings.
Beyond that you can use a commlink to create a PAN or WAN of your drones. But you should use a RCC (Rigger Command Console) Which is similar to a Cyberdeck. The RCC has Noise reduction and can share autosofts between drones. It also comes with a rating and data processing and firewall scores.
AKA everything back to pre-4th ;)
Now please tell me that riggers and hackers at least stay in the same Matrix and we don't need Rigger Emulation Module somethings again
The big thing this means is that Dronomancers are no longer possible, unless they want to take the hit to essence and resonance, and be unable to hack and rig at the same time.
...or use any other Resonance abilities, right? In other words, a rigging TM is unable to do anything TM-ish. And every TM is unable to interface with his bloody pocket secretary, because making the virtual world bend to one's will does not grant the ability to become part of a PAN...
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The big thing this means is that Dronomancers are no longer possible, unless they want to take the hit to essence and resonance, and be unable to hack and rig at the same time.
I just found this Echo on p. 258:
Mind over Machine: You get the benefit of a Rating 1 control rig. You may take this echo up to two additional times (for a total of three), with the effective control rig rating increasing by 1 each time you take it.
So dronomancers are possible, clearly. It's just that, at chargen, you'll have to be pretty nerfed and unable to actually jump into drones until you can submerge. Machine sprites should be able to mitigate that, though.
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The big thing this means is that Dronomancers are no longer possible, unless they want to take the hit to essence and resonance, and be unable to hack and rig at the same time.
I just found this Echo on p. 258:
Mind over Machine: You get the benefit of a Rating 1 control rig. You may take this echo up to two additional times (for a total of three), with the effective control rig rating increasing by 1 each time you take it.
So dronomancers are possible, clearly. It's just that, at chargen, you'll have to be pretty nerfed and unable to actually jump into drones until you can submerge. Machine sprites should be able to mitigate that, though.
I've been wanting to do a dronomancer for a while, so I may actually try that out. I'm fine starting a tad subpar to get my Legion concept going.
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So dronomancers are possible, clearly. It's just that, at chargen, you'll have to be pretty nerfed and unable to actually jump into drones until you can submerge.
Even then, the tidbits Ghost posted make it sound like you would be unable to use an RCD (or however they call it now)...
Also, I take that to mean no Initiations/Submersions on chargen?
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Now please tell me that riggers and hackers at least stay in the same Matrix and we don't need Rigger Emulation Module somethings again
The big thing this means is that Dronomancers are no longer possible, unless they want to take the hit to essence and resonance, and be unable to hack and rig at the same time.
...or use any other Resonance abilities, right? In other words, a rigging TM is unable to do anything TM-ish. And every TM is unable to interface with his bloody pocket secretary, because making the virtual world bend to one's will does not grant the ability to become part of a PAN...
I guess we can't have it all can we? :D But I was wrong, See below:
I just found this Echo on p. 258:
Mind over Machine: You get the benefit of a Rating 1 control rig. You may take this echo up to two additional times (for a total of three), with the effective control rig rating increasing by 1 each time you take it.
I hadn't seen that echo! Good find StarManta.
That makes me very happy, because it lets TMs eventually gain that capability, but doesn't make them able to do everything Right out of the gate.
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I'm holding judgement until I've got the book in my hand, but going by what others are saying, it seems like TM's got hit with a giant nerf bat, which makes me frown. They were great generalists before, and now they're seemingly poor at everything, but have a chance of coming out ahead if a game lasts 50 sessions.
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Also, I take that to mean no Initiations/Submersions on chargen?
That's correct, although I'll probably allow them in my home game. I've always thought it was silly that even though your character has all sorts of skills and training, Initiation/Submersion is just verboten until you happen to start running in game.
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Yeah, you have between 25 and 50 karma you can spend during chargen for character improvement. There's a list of specific items you can spend it on in the Chargen chapter, but there's honestly no real reason you couldn't houserule that you can start as an initiate with it.
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I'm holding judgement until I've got the book in my hand, but going by what others are saying, it seems like TM's got hit with a giant nerf bat, which makes me frown. They were great generalists before, and now they're seemingly poor at everything, but have a chance of coming out ahead if a game lasts 50 sessions.
I hope when you get the book, you'll find that incorrect. The TM is looking like a very attractive option to me.
Yeah, you have between 25 and 50 karma you can spend during chargen for character improvement. There's a list of specific items you can spend it on in the Chargen chapter, but there's honestly no real reason you couldn't houserule that you can start as an initiate with it.
I like this rule. And there's always the option of starting at a higher level than character creation by adding a little karma.
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- Technomancers have more upward growth, but less versatility. Complex forms are powerful, and can hedge around OS, but TMs are limited to only a few CFs to start with, and may only know Res x 2 total.
ONLY? Well, if programs are expensive, as are decks, well I guess having a max of 12 (because I guess TM will mostly be maxed for the sake of being able to chose level 6 rating when needed) CF is not so limiting. Especially when there is for now a total of 14 CF
And I don't know the total number of programs, but by nature, it is more limited than spells.
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Keep in mind that Complex Forms are markedly more powerful than normal programs, if not only because of the fact that using them doesn't accrue Overwatch Score.
I'm also sure that there will be more when we get our hands on the Matrix splat book.
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Which add to my point that versatility is not a real problem to TM by saying that basically they even have even more power. Great;)
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Keep in mind that Complex Forms are markedly more powerful than normal programs, if not only because of the fact that using them doesn't accrue Overwatch Score.
I'm also sure that there will be more when we get our hands on the Matrix splat book.
So if I'm understanding overwatch correctly, this means TMs will end up being more covert in their hacking, assuming they stay smart? Of course they are still limited by their complex forms, especially starting out
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So if I'm understanding overwatch correctly, this means TMs will end up being more covert in their hacking, assuming they stay smart? Of course they are still limited by their complex forms, especially starting out
More covert, yes, completely covert, no. None of the complex forms actually gain you marks on a target, so you still have to use normal matrix actions for a lot of stuff. But, you can use Cleaner on your overwatch score....
So, yeah. More covert, just not completely.
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So if I'm understanding overwatch correctly, this means TMs will end up being more covert in their hacking, assuming they stay smart? Of course they are still limited by their complex forms, especially starting out
More covert, yes, completely covert, no. None of the complex forms actually gain you marks on a target, so you still have to use normal matrix actions for a lot of stuff. But, you can use Cleaner on your overwatch score....
So, yeah. More covert, just not completely.
True, if they were completely covert then they would be overpowered. Right now, it seems they may have a pretty nice niche in stealth hacking, but obviously they still have to work at it and be careful, especially since they take stun damage.
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Actually, they take physical. Technomancers always hot-sim now unless they're in AR.
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They were always hotsim in SR4 as well IIRC.
MfG
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Actually, they take physical. Technomancers always hot-sim now unless they're in AR.
Rgith, but unless it's changed from SR4A, Matrix damage goes to stun for them. And if Matrix damage goes straight to physical... That would be a bad change.
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Matrix damage does indeed go to Stun, but hot simming means that biofeedback does physical.
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That's more in line with expectations... How's biofeedback damage work in regards to resistance?
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If you let your hacker hit that many major systems with no ill consequences, it's not the game that made it that easy, it's you. It's your job to instill a sense of reality and consequence. It's your job to make the government and corporations something to fear, not just mindless and weak corporations.
Damnit man.
(http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/sam-one-job.gif)
um he only had to hack 2 systems, the local court system(not exactly a AAA) showing the decison went to lone star x and a local doc wagon facility,(agai not exactly a AAA) forging a doc does not require them to hack a system all they had to do was put it in 2 places. The adventure gave them a long time and the long hack is stupid hard to stop in 4e.
1. I don't artificially increase the challenge to make the run more dangerous/difficult
2. I actually use the matirx rules.
3. I don't bone people because they came up with a good plan and I want things to be hard for them.
You are right though, I had one job. To run a fun adventure, I succeeded.
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On the subject of Matrix Rules...
1) Is there any indication of how they're going to handle inter-stream balance for Technomancers? There seems to be some risk of Logic streams becoming the ultimate technomancers, which I would certainly not like to see.
2) Is it possible to run Programs not relating to Sleaze or Attack from a Commlink?
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How do non hacker defend against hacks? Firewall? ICE / agents? Nothing?
MfG
Skin Link and fiber optic cable...
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Skinlink is gone in SR5.
MfG
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Skinlink is gone in SR5.
MfG
Thank GHOST!
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Skinlink is gone in SR5.
MfG
Thank GHOST!
I'm with you on that. I hated skinlink. On a related point, I want induction pads or wires back for my smartgun and god I want smargun contacts to have some massive problem compared to cyber.
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Okay, aside from some seriosuly silly physics, what was wrong with skin link and why the hell did they get rid of it? Still, a data-jack will effect the same.
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Okay, aside from some seriosuly silly physics, what was wrong with skin link and why the hell did they get rid of it? Still, a data-jack will effect the same.
You know...I think that might have been it. I had not put a datajack on any character in SR4....because, with Skinlink, there
was never, really, a reason.
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Alright, I'll accept that argument. As long as we can tether I'm happy. If they start saying we can't even do that I'm just not moving to the next edition.
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A few things for me.
Just didn't like it.
It made setting pieces like the data jack pointless.
It turned off wireless and some things should be hackable.(not cyber in my mind, but goggles hell yeah)
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I'm sorry, but why would my goggles be hackable? They are a self contained units that have no business talking to anything other than my smart-gun, which by the way would be cabled to the goggles.
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I'm sorry, but why would my goggles be hackable? They are a self contained units that have no business talking to anything other than my smart-gun, which by the way would be cabled to the goggles.
If you have a cable I don't mind so much because also they are goggles and visable extra gear, I should have said contacts which just irritate the heck out of me. And while it is fine to have unhackable goggles, they should have big penalties compared to ware. And needing to plug in a cable actualy is a decent penalty since it takes time to do.
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So either my weapons are clumsy and I can't hide them at a good spot in my clothes, I can't use the smart gun or I have to make them hackable, and apparently as pure-Bioware street sam I still need to get a datajack for stuff. -_- Looks like I can't wait for Arsenal's SR5 edition to arrive so I can mod some extra Accuracy in, and go for Laser Sights.
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yeah, is the extra +1 dice really that necessary? do we have to cry about our smartlinks getting hacked all the time? just stick a laser sight on your gun and ram a few tracer rounds in each clip and you're good to go.
with accuracy limiting hits, all the extra dice pool we're used to will probably be total overkill anyway, eg if you're limited to 4 hits, you don't need a 20+ pool.
btw, any character can still have access to IC and agents, you're not undefended from the army of hackers you seem to be expecting
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Extra 1 accuracy, not extra 1 dice. And yeah, that actually hurts someone. If I have 7 Agility and 6 Pistols at chargen, we're talking 13 dice. That's slightly over a 1:30 chance I lose 1+ hits at 7 Accuracy, and about 1:10 at 6. So going Laser Sight instead of Smartgun, at chargen, means that one in fifteen shots will lose a hit because of the Laser Sight instead of the Smartgun. That smarts, and we're not even talking what happens if the Agility goes to 9 and I take a cheap specialty for 17 dice. Will definitely need an Accuracy-increase in the future.
On the other hand, this means I actually pay a decent price for sacrificing my limit to keep my gun unhackable. I can't say I mind that.
It also comes with the downside of taking a Simple Action to eject the clip, but it's not as if I need that many bullets that often in a gunfight and without shooting twice, the damage is less.
So yeah, it hurts, it sucks and it makes me distrust wireless stuff even more. On the other hand, the entire character concept is built around being paranoid, to the point where those Wired Reflexes are solely due to Resources C and I will cut out its wireless ability. Paying a price for my paranoia is nice, just like how I pay a price for dumpstatting Strength and Logic.
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I get that there are some out there completely flipping out over Accuracy and dice pool size. There is this new fangled thing called Edge that allows you to ignore that Accuracy thing and do it more often with the New Edge Regeneration rules in place.
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Woo! This thread is exactly what I was looking for! I'm a little sad about the loss of Dronomancers (one of our party members is a Rigging Focused TM with minimal hacking skill, so she'll be sad too), but the new matrix rules sound sweet. Sweet enough to make me want to try a new decker or TM anyway.
I'm curious as to how AIs will operate in the new system, but I suppose that's a bit farther ahead. I'm wondering if they'll play more like TMs or Free Sprites than just Bodiless Hackers with inherent programs.
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I get that there are some out there completely flipping out over Accuracy and dice pool size. There is this new fangled thing called Edge that allows you to ignore that Accuracy thing and do it more often with the New Edge Regeneration rules in place.
The downside is that you only get to ignore the limits if you predeclare the point of edge for extra dice and exploding sixes, not if you use it to re-roll your misses.
On the other hand predeclare edge could probably use the buff considering how rarely it otherwise will get used on large dice pool rolls.
Now with an accuracy of 7 and 18 dice and six edge I have to be either all but assured of 7 hits if I take the reroll or shake those big 24 dice and just see what happens...
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18 dice and 7 Accuracy is a hit or more lost 22% of the rolls. That's excluding rerolls or explosions, I only ran the base stats. Let me check AnyDice for rerolls... How does <5% of less than 7 hits sound, with an 8/9 chance to lose hits?
Honestly though, all I want is that 10% chance or less at losing 1+ hits. At lower dicepools we're talking only roughly 1/3 of that chance of losing 2+ hits with that Accuracy, at higher dicepools it goes up to about half. Thanks to my tables, I can calculate the odds that replacing a Smartgun with a Laser Sight actually costs me a hit. It's a consequence and honestly, without skinlink it's something I'm willing to eat if it means I'm not restricted by the wire hanging from the gun.
If on the other hand I have to take that Accuracy hit because the smartgun won't work right at 20 meters without a wireless connection, I will take it even more but be snarling about it.
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You don't have to predeclare Edge use to Push the Limit. You can do that after the roll (unless I'm drastically misreading things), when you know you've come up against the limit you're wanting to break. There is a limit of 1 Edge point per test, so you need to take that into account, but there's no requirement to predeclare that I noticed.
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You don't have to predeclare Edge use to Push the Limit. You can do that after the roll (unless I'm drastically misreading things), when you know you've come up against the limit you're wanting to break. There is a limit of 1 Edge point per test, so you need to take that into account, but there's no requirement to predeclare that I noticed.
The "second chance" effect which lets you reroll the dice does not change the effect, and I am fairly certain you can not decide to use "push the lit" after you have have rolled the dice.
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18 dice and 7 Accuracy is a hit or more lost 22% of the rolls. That's excluding rerolls or explosions, I only ran the base stats.
If sixes are exploding, then Limits are going to be ignored.
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I know. I was referring to the amount of hits rolled, basically. Push the Limit says you ignore any limit on the test, after all. The chances matter, though, what if you roll less hits on average but the limit-pushing balances it to more on average?
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Oh, I have a question. About the Matrix Rules.
What happens when a device you wear is hit with a Matrix Attack? Does it shut down? Can the hacker take control of it?
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Oh, I have a question. About the Matrix Rules.
What happens when a device you wear is hit with a Matrix Attack? Does it shut down? Can the hacker take control of it?
Depends on the device and how "sucessful" the attack was. Instead of levels of authorization (like guest, user, admin) there are now Marks, and how many Marks you have on a device determines what you can do with it. You only need one mark on a wireless enabled grenade to make it explode on a whim for example but I believe you need two or three to make a smart link gun stop shooting.
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Oh, I have a question. About the Matrix Rules.
What happens when a device you wear is hit with a Matrix Attack? Does it shut down? Can the hacker take control of it?
When a device is hit with a data spike (which is what I assume you are referring to when you say 'matrix attack') it takes matrix damage. When the matrix damage track is filled, the item becomes bricked, which means it pops and fizzles and sparks, and may even set on fire. No exceptions. After that the item is broken and won't work until repaired.
If the hacker wanted to take the device over, he would instead put marks on it with a different action and then log in, or use other actions to manipulate it.
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I get that there are some out there completely flipping out over Accuracy and dice pool size. There is this new fangled thing called Edge that allows you to ignore that Accuracy thing and do it more often with the New Edge Regeneration rules in place.
Edge refresh is at best one per day by taking rest, else it is GM call on your actions, for the most.
So as Edge is not a huge pool, that is not something you should spend carelessly.
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Oh, I have a question. About the Matrix Rules.
What happens when a device you wear is hit with a Matrix Attack? Does it shut down? Can the hacker take control of it?
When a device is hit with a data spike (which is what I assume you are referring to when you say 'matrix attack') it takes matrix damage. When the matrix damage track is filled, the item becomes bricked, which means it pops and fizzles and sparks, and may even set on fire. No exceptions. After that the item is broken and won't work until repaired.
If the hacker wanted to take the device over, he would instead put marks on it with a different action and then log in, or use other actions to manipulate it.
That bricking a device requires hands on repairs is in and of itself reason enough to never use any of the wireless functionality. Who wants to think that a random jerk with a cyberdeck can require someone to rip out and replace your wired reflexes, or set fire to something embedded in your brain?
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So, don't enable wireless on your grenades. Important safety tip, thanks.
...The bricking is rather dangerous too. Is it possible for your hacker to Counterhack? Like how a Mage counterspells?
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So, don't enable wireless on your grenades. Important safety tip, thanks.
...The bricking is rather dangerous too. Is it possible for your hacker to Counterhack? Like how a Mage counterspells?
Yes.
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Oh, I have a question. About the Matrix Rules.
What happens when a device you wear is hit with a Matrix Attack? Does it shut down? Can the hacker take control of it?
When a device is hit with a data spike (which is what I assume you are referring to when you say 'matrix attack') it takes matrix damage. When the matrix damage track is filled, the item becomes bricked, which means it pops and fizzles and sparks, and may even set on fire. No exceptions. After that the item is broken and won't work until repaired.
If the hacker wanted to take the device over, he would instead put marks on it with a different action and then log in, or use other actions to manipulate it.
That bricking a device requires hands on repairs is in and of itself reason enough to never use any of the wireless functionality. Who wants to think that a random jerk with a cyberdeck can require someone to rip out and replace your wired reflexes, or set fire to something embedded in your brain?
To reiterate a point I brought up a few other places, you can slave your wireless equipment to the decker's deck at which point it is as hard ot hack as the deck itself is. If the decker can not keep his equipment from getting hacked, then you need to find a better decker to run with.
Also as I recall (from someone else who had read the book explaining to me so someone with the actual book can correct) repairing "bricked" equipment to being functional again takes time but no money.
Also raising five comlinks which provide nearly as much firewall defense as most decker's starting decks (though you have to use your own logic and intuition scores) are remarkably cheap and should be more than enough to keep random yahoos from breaking your equipment even if you do not have a decker.
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So, don't enable wireless on your grenades. Important safety tip, thanks.
...The bricking is rather dangerous too. Is it possible for your hacker to Counterhack? Like how a Mage counterspells?
The decker's deck can have a number of pieces of equipment slaved to it equal to its rating times 3 if memory serves,
So the Street Samuri will tell his gun and wireless reflexes to run silently (making them harder to find in the first place) then slave them to the decker's deck. If the decker can not keep his own deck form being hacked you need a better decker not a more "off the grid" approach to shadowrunning,
Though those of you who can not soak 16P -2AP might not want to carry wireless grenades just to be on the safe side as they require only one mark to set off, as opposed to more time consuming efforts like bricking a firearm or cyber implants.
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also keep in mind that any time a hacker fails an attempt to data spike something, they take damage dependent on how many net hits you accrue on the matrix defense check. That, mixed with the slaving mentioned above, can be very risky for a hacker.
There isn't much cyberware that is hackable (unless you jack in) but I'll look into the ones that are and figure out about bricking where that is concerned.
So, don't enable wireless on your grenades. Important safety tip, thanks.
...The bricking is rather dangerous too. Is it possible for your hacker to Counterhack? Like how a Mage counterspells?
Check out the grenades thread, we had an interesting discussion about that.
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Oh! The slaving bit is reassuring, then. Our Decker is extremely paranoid and puts IC on everything he can afford, even if no one in their right mind would consider hacking it. (Like the Toaster, for instance). That makes me more comfortable with the idea.
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...The bricking is rather dangerous too. Is it possible for your hacker to Counterhack? Like how a Mage counterspells?
The decker's deck can have a number of pieces of equipment slaved to it equal to its rating times 3 if memory serves,
So the Street Samuri will tell his gun and wireless reflexes to run silently (making them harder to find in the first place) then slave them to the decker's deck. If the decker can not keep his own deck form being hacked you need a better decker not a more "off the grid" approach to shadowrunning,
Does Slaving stack? Can the Street Sam slave all his gear to his Commlink, and then slave the link to the Decker and only have it count as 1 for the Deck?
Also, aside from slaving, can the decker help protect this team's wireless gear in other ways? Another poster brought up "Counter Hacking" as a concept analogous to a Mage Counter Spelling. Is that a thing now (someone posted "Yes" without details), or is that just the slaving devices to the Deck?
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...The bricking is rather dangerous too. Is it possible for your hacker to Counterhack? Like how a Mage counterspells?
The decker's deck can have a number of pieces of equipment slaved to it equal to its rating times 3 if memory serves,
So the Street Samuri will tell his gun and wireless reflexes to run silently (making them harder to find in the first place) then slave them to the decker's deck. If the decker can not keep his own deck form being hacked you need a better decker not a more "off the grid" approach to shadowrunning,
Does Slaving stack? Can the Street Sam slave all his gear to his Commlink, and then slave the link to the Decker and only have it count as 1 for the Deck?
Also, aside from slaving, can the decker help protect this team's wireless gear in other ways? Another poster brought up "Counter Hacking" as a concept analogous to a Mage Counter Spelling. Is that a thing now (someone posted "Yes" without details), or is that just the slaving devices to the Deck?
You can not stack slaving. So no slave device Y to device X then salve device X to device Z.
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Oh, I have a question. About the Matrix Rules.
What happens when a device you wear is hit with a Matrix Attack? Does it shut down? Can the hacker take control of it?
Depends on the device and how "sucessful" the attack was. Instead of levels of authorization (like guest, user, admin) there are now Marks, and how many Marks you have on a device determines what you can do with it. You only need one mark on a wireless enabled grenade to make it explode on a whim for example but I believe you need two or three to make a smart link gun stop shooting.
It should be noted that Bull gave a list of device ratings in 5th on another thread. You can basically assume everything is one rating lower now than it was in SR4. Also 1 mark allows you to make free actions, two marks allows simple, three allows complex.
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You only need one mark on a wireless enabled grenade to make it explode on a whim for example but I believe you need two or three to make a smart link gun stop shooting.
There's no way that would work. The more I think about it, the more I think that no one would ever build a grenade without a mechanical (non-hackable) switch to keep it from exploding before you at least take it off your belt, and there's definitely a switch like that for the grenades in a grenade launcher's barrel.
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You don't have to predeclare Edge use to Push the Limit. You can do that after the roll (unless I'm drastically misreading things), when you know you've come up against the limit you're wanting to break. There is a limit of 1 Edge point per test, so you need to take that into account, but there's no requirement to predeclare that I noticed.
The "second chance" effect which lets you reroll the dice does not change the effect, and I am fairly certain you can not decide to use "push the lit" after you have have rolled the dice.
According to Preview#2 Push the Limit allows you to roll all of the dice with the rules of 6, iff you decide after rolling to Push the Limit only your edge dice uses rule of six, both ways ignores any limits.
I get that there are some out there completely flipping out over Accuracy and dice pool size. There is this new fangled thing called Edge that allows you to ignore that Accuracy thing and do it more often with the New Edge Regeneration rules in place.
Edge refresh is at best one per day by taking rest, else it is GM call on your actions, for the most.
So as Edge is not a huge pool, that is not something you should spend carelessly.
No Edge refreshes minimum once per day(ingame day, not session meaning if the session lasts for 4 game days and you spent one edge per day you would be only down 1 edge at the end of the session), more depending on what's going on in the session.
Compared to 4e that is a decidedly better.
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No Edge refreshes minimum once per day(ingame day, not session meaning if the session lasts for 4 game days and you spent one edge per day you would be only down 1 edge at the end of the session), more depending on what's going on in the session.
Compared to 4e that is a decidedly better.
Sure but with 16DV grenades you might be saving all your edge to survive them. :)
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Is that really any different than peeps stacking stuns on each other?
It'll be the FotM until someone finds some other loophole to exploit.
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The difference is its not a loophole to exploit, its a pretty basic tactic, throw a grenade. When things are a loophole a GM easily says, hey don't be a jerk. When its a basic function of the game, you either suck it up(missions) or you houserule it.
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The difference is its not a loophole to exploit, its a pretty basic tactic, throw a grenade. When things are a loophole a GM easily says, hey don't be a jerk. When its a basic function of the game, you either suck it up(missions) or you houserule it.
Or play in a game where throwing high explosives in urban areas brings massive blow back from corporate and public law enforcement?
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The difference is its not a loophole to exploit, its a pretty basic tactic, throw a grenade. When things are a loophole a GM easily says, hey don't be a jerk. When its a basic function of the game, you either suck it up(missions) or you houserule it.
Or play in a game where throwing high explosives in urban areas brings massive blow back from corporate and public law enforcement?
Um awesome the players wont use it very often, how about security forces.
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Um awesome the players wont use it very often, how about security forces.
Probably fairly reluctant to blow up their own facility?
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Tossing explosives around is always a stupid idea unless absolutely necessary. Good to have them on hand but if they aren't used in a precise way they can cause all kinds of unintended problems.
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Thanks for the info guys. Now, how about responding to the second Great Worry about Hacking in SR5. Can your decker keep you safe from being tracked? (Assuming your stuff is online)
Also, what if the worst happens and your decker messes around a little too long and gets his ass nuked by GOD? Are you now 2 minutes away from having SWAT teams coming to put you down?
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Thanks for the info guys. Now, how about responding to the second Great Worry about Hacking in SR5. Can your decker keep you safe from being tracked? (Assuming your stuff is online)
Also, what if the worst happens and your decker messes around a little too long and gets his ass nuked by GOD? Are you now 2 minutes away from having SWAT teams coming to put you down?
GOD gets a trace on your current location before your decker is kicked off the Internet but does not have any kind of lasting trace on them.
Thus you simply hack form a van and if GOD finds your decker in the matrix drive like the wind for a bit pull into a safe house and GOD's goons will have no way to find you.
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I thought the whole thing about going Decker was having to shove the cord into whatever you were trying to hack?
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Not necessarily. Due to technomancers, a lot of corps have made their networks hardwire-only, but not all. And most runner gear is wireless.
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Being a Decker is having some Drek hot gear, and the balls and knowhow to use it correctly without turning your brains into mashed potatoes.
Wired or wireless, that's what it's about.
Tech will change, but Deckers will always be the ones on the edge of it looking into the abyss.
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How about detecting devices? I never thought that SR4 was all that clear in just what a hacker finds and how much they know when they do a scan.
So for example, lets say a ganger goon is dumb enough to have a grenade in his backpack with the wireless on. How does a hacker even know it's there to hack?
Also, worrying about enemy hackers doesn't seem to me like it should be as big a worry as many make it out to be. The setting basically provided an excuse for all the script kiddies disappearing, the need for security spiders decreasing thanks to GOD taking the role, and the cost of buying/building a deck. Running into a Decker or TM (who actually decides to learn to hack systems and not just use the matrix as a normal person) shouldn't be nearly so common anymore. Sounds like commlinks with higher device ratings should be able to handle the Deckers and TMs from groups like gangs, small companies, low level security, etc. And if you're running into a group that has cause for a higher level hacker, then you should be on a level of gear, karma, and preparation to deal with them, unless there has been some very bad decision making happening in your team. Course, I'm basing this entirely off what I've read in these discussions since I haven't gotten my hands on the book yet.
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How about detecting devices? I never thought that SR4 was all that clear in just what a hacker finds and how much they know when they do a scan.
So for example, lets say a ganger goon is dumb enough to have a grenade in his backpack with the wireless on. How does a hacker even know it's there to hack?
Also, worrying about enemy hackers doesn't seem to me like it should be as big a worry as many make it out to be. The setting basically provided an excuse for all the script kiddies disappearing, the need for security spiders decreasing thanks to GOD taking the role, and the cost of buying/building a deck. Running into a Decker or TM (who actually decides to learn to hack systems and not just use the matrix as a normal person) shouldn't be nearly so common anymore. Sounds like commlinks with higher device ratings should be able to handle the Deckers and TMs from groups like gangs, small companies, low level security, etc. And if you're running into a group that has cause for a higher level hacker, then you should be on a level of gear, karma, and preparation to deal with them, unless there has been some very bad decision making happening in your team. Course, I'm basing this entirely off what I've read in these discussions since I haven't gotten my hands on the book yet.
Most script kiddies were actually horribly murdered by IC and or the GOD version of Red Samuri when the new Internet came out. It actually got so bad that there were actual Wrongful Death Lawsuits which lead to having IC be turned on as no longer the default option.
I have no idea who sued who (one theory in my group is a corporation suing another) but it must have been bad if the issue had to be resolved with lawyers instead of shadowrunners.
Also if you want to have fun with a Johnson you do not like in the new sixth world, send them an email with an attached file on how the run went in detail but do not give them marks to open the file. If they try to read the file GOD will come down on them like a ton of bricks sooner or later.
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Enjoyed the preview...just glad that the whining from the dice-aholics and mini-maxers have cleared up to more relevent matters. :)
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How about detecting devices? I never thought that SR4 was all that clear in just what a hacker finds and how much they know when they do a scan.
So for example, lets say a ganger goon is dumb enough to have a grenade in his backpack with the wireless on. How does a hacker even know it's there to hack?
I am wondering this also. SR4 specifically said that you cannot correlate matrix icon location to real world locations. In SR5 that must be gone, yes? Do I just get a AR overview of all the wireless nodes in a shop then, exactly where they are?
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Enjoyed the preview...just glad that the whining from the dice-aholics and mini-maxers have cleared up to more relevent matters. :)
Thank you, we do form a vital part of the shadowrun ecosystem!
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Also, worrying about enemy hackers doesn't seem to me like it should be as big a worry as many make it out to be. The setting basically provided an excuse for all the script kiddies disappearing, the need for security spiders decreasing thanks to GOD taking the role, and the cost of buying/building a deck. Running into a Decker or TM (who actually decides to learn to hack systems and not just use the matrix as a normal person) shouldn't be nearly so common anymore. Sounds like commlinks with higher device ratings should be able to handle the Deckers and TMs from groups like gangs, small companies, low level security, etc. And if you're running into a group that has cause for a higher level hacker, then you should be on a level of gear, karma, and preparation to deal with them, unless there has been some very bad decision making happening in your team. Course, I'm basing this entirely off what I've read in these discussions since I haven't gotten my hands on the book yet.
It's that in the "New More Secure Matrix", somehow one has to completely ignore all security concerns in order to get what should be the basic functionality of their gear.
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Most script kiddies were actually horribly murdered by IC and or the GOD version of Red Samuri when the new Internet came out. It actually got so bad that there were actual Wrongful Death Lawsuits which lead to having IC be turned on as no longer the default option.
I have no idea who sued who (one theory in my group is a corporation suing another) but it must have been bad if the issue had to be resolved with lawyers instead of shadowrunners.
Is that actually in the book?
Please tell me that is REALLY in the book!
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I have a question. Why in the frak would I have my Wired Reflexes slaved to a deck? Why have it wireless at all? It's DNI, not something that should benefit from a Matrix connection.
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Actually, we might see more security spiders. Perhaps even lots of cheap low skilled ones. They'll function like the security guards in meatspace who try to delay you until the cops get there. They'll be trying to delay you from completing your goals before GOD arrives. They'll be doing the cyberspace of equivalent of spraying barrier foam, locking doors, dropping smoke grenades, and just generally distracting and annoying the decker.
Maybe it's a new line of work for the script kiddies. Decker distraction dummies.
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Wont the spiders need 100k decks too?....
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Wont the spiders need 100k decks too?....
Can't rightly say, since this is just speculation. Depends on how decker versus decker combat works. It may be that IC serves the "delay the decker' function. Matrix architecture will probaly play a role too. Imagine the pain in the ass of finding a teleporting SAN with GOD breathing down your neck.
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I have a question. Why in the frak would I have my Wired Reflexes slaved to a deck? Why have it wireless at all? It's DNI, not something that should benefit from a Matrix connection.
No real need to activate the wireless aspect of your wired reflexes except in really high-performance situations where the extra computational power (which is what your equipment gains from a Matrix connection) is useful. That goes for most cyberware, actually.
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Most script kiddies were actually horribly murdered by IC and or the GOD version of Red Samuri when the new Internet came out. It actually got so bad that there were actual Wrongful Death Lawsuits which lead to having IC be turned on as no longer the default option.
I have no idea who sued who (one theory in my group is a corporation suing another) but it must have been bad if the issue had to be resolved with lawyers instead of shadowrunners.
Is that actually in the book?
Please tell me that is REALLY in the book!
The wrongful death lawsuits is in the book, the murdered script kiddies is my group's interpretation of it.
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Wait, what? So all of the gear became more powerful since 2075 due to distributed computing? I thought it was the opposite of this. Weren't people saying that to get the 4E-equivalent boost from gear, you had to have Matrix access? It doesn't make sense for all gear to suddenly be shittier, requiring an internet connection just to bring it up to even with the previous year's model. Everything being improved due to distributed computing? That'd be awesome and totally worth turning on the wireless.
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Wont the spiders need 100k decks too?....
Can't rightly say, since this is just speculation. Depends on how decker versus decker combat works. It may be that IC serves the "delay the decker' function. Matrix architecture will probaly play a role too. Imagine the pain in the ass of finding a teleporting SAN with GOD breathing down your neck.
IC is now the entire Internet logging on to punch you in the face if you screw up and stick around. Once they start showing up, one IC will show up every pass, you are free to attack it/them, but the software will just continue to generate even more IC till you leave or are overwhelmed.
That is how two hackers can work together now, one hacker does the actual hacking whirl the other needs to punch every IC that shows up if something goes wrong.
TM can also summon crack sprites which have a power called "suppression" which will fuck up the IC software so baddy it can no longer be used to summon IC without a thirty minute reboot or something along those lines.
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They've nerved some of the gear down, but put old functionality back as part of the distributed computing or whatnot part. Basically it's not really a matter of the previous models being better, but the entire game system having been balanced down, then balanced back up at a price. Doesn't change whether it feels like a carrot or a stick, but there's an intent there I guess.
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Oh... So a guy buys wired reflexes 3 in 2074, he gets +3 Rea and +3 IP. In 2075, he gets the same bonus but only if it's connected to the Matrix? Otherwise, his WR3 is weaker than the 2074 version? It's frustrating asking this stuff, I just need the book.
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Someone posted that Wired Reflexes + Reaction Enhancers only stack if you connect them. Nothing on individual requirements.
Keep in mind that they're not +3 IP but +3d6, and that with limits, less dicepool modifiers and higher dodgepools the entire game system has been rebalanced. Might have been smarter to change the bonuses given by wireless connection, but we'll see when we get the rules.
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Congrats on the promotion, MC. Demo Team is like the A-Team, right? Which one are you? Face?
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Pretty much. Agents are the unofficial Faces of Catalyst Lab, setting up events and demonstrations. In my case the intent is to host SR5 Missions with a small but solid player base and drawing as many people from the outside as possible. Which also means that I will run any rule as it's written, even if I personally disagree with part of it and houserule it in my own games. =) Ah, the sacrifices I make! Not that I intend to houserule much, but still.
Basically it gives experienced players some fun while noticing how the metaplot evolves with them a part in it, players new to the edition a place to get to know it and people new to roleplaying as a whole a nice 1-shot attempt to see whether they like it. It's nice.
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Meanwhile I just read that the Smartguns give +2 dice as their wireless bonuses. Not entirely sure, since most of that topic got hijacked by silly debates rather than sticking to, y'know, the actual questions and debating the answers elsewhere. Sounds like most (if not all) wireless bonuses are in fact old bonuses pre-nerf. An incomplete and possibly inaccurate list would be Reaction Enhancers and Wired Reflexes stacking, Vision/Audio enhancements giving +X dice as well rather than just +X limit, same for Smartguns, Chemical Seals activating faster.
With Smartguns Karma Inferno's take on it was "Smartguns working better because they are getting weather, map, and other external data, great! It makes sense, is plausible, fits in universe." Sounds kinda silly still, shooting better at 10 feet in an alley because I know the sun is shining, but meh. If I have to houserule things, I might very well just remove all the wireless bonuses and think of other things for a Hacker to do.
See, I like the whole idea of reducing the dicepool modifiers. It makes that skillrank + attribute so much more important, it's grittier and I really like the flavor. Dumping the bonuses as a whole, rather than have players grumbling and having the stuff not work inside facilities anyway, sounds like something more fitting that gritty flavor. With the faster hacking, longer battles and a few houseruled options for hackers to spoof communications, I keep the gritty flavor while not going "urk" on DRM and XBone (which is now XBOX180, aka XBibo) stuff.
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I have the perfect houserule. For a 5% increase of cost, you can buy the 2074 "last year's model".
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With Smartguns Karma Inferno's take on it was "Smartguns working better because they are getting weather, map, and other external data, great! It makes sense, is plausible, fits in universe." Sounds kinda silly still, shooting better at 10 feet in an alley because I know the sun is shining, but meh. If I have to houserule things, I might very well just remove all the wireless bonuses and think of other things for a Hacker to do.
As I understand the spoilers, the smartgun isn't performing better because it knows the sun is shining, it's performing better because it can hand the visual data it's got to a more powerful server somewhere which crunches the data and hands back a superior firing solution. It's identical to how SIRI works on your iPhone.
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So.... There's a powerful server out there that knows who I fired my gun at?
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I have the perfect houserule. For a 5% increase of cost, you can buy the 2074 "last year's model".
The 2074 model isn't the one in the 4e rulebook, it's the one in the 5e rulebook without the wireless. The old 4e numbers are not relevant benchmarks. 5e's not a supplement, it's a new version of the game that's been rebalanced.
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IC is now the entire Internet logging on to punch you in the face if you screw up and stick around. Once they start showing up, one IC will show up every pass, you are free to attack it/them, but the software will just continue to generate even more IC till you leave or are overwhelmed.
Whoah, the Megacorps must save a drek load of money on security, despite the first implementation cost. Where do security spiders fit in, if at all?
An army of Agent Smith clones punching you in the face, heheh.
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IC is now the entire Internet logging on to punch you in the face if you screw up and stick around. Once they start showing up, one IC will show up every pass, you are free to attack it/them, but the software will just continue to generate even more IC till you leave or are overwhelmed.
Whoah, the Megacorps must save a drek load of money on security, despite the first implementation cost. Where do security spiders fit in, if at all?
An army of Agent Smith clones punching you in the face, heheh.
I can not give perfect answers because I have not read chapters in question only listened to an explanation by someone who has read them (though that person was about as knowledgeable as a. Player could get on 4E matrix)
IC starts in the off position, when you first log in there will be no IC.
IC will only show up when the site you are hacking (but not yet GOD) is aware you are trying to hack it but i can jot give you the crunch for how that works. I believe the security spider's job is to look for intruders, have an ecalmation mark pop into existence over their head and call for back up (the IC) but not kung fu fingt you themselves. This is only my interpretation though so take it with a hefty dose of salt.
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How about detecting devices? I never thought that SR4 was all that clear in just what a hacker finds and how much they know when they do a scan.
So for example, lets say a ganger goon is dumb enough to have a grenade in his backpack with the wireless on. How does a hacker even know it's there to hack?
Also, worrying about enemy hackers doesn't seem to me like it should be as big a worry as many make it out to be. The setting basically provided an excuse for all the script kiddies disappearing, the need for security spiders decreasing thanks to GOD taking the role, and the cost of buying/building a deck. Running into a Decker or TM (who actually decides to learn to hack systems and not just use the matrix as a normal person) shouldn't be nearly so common anymore. Sounds like commlinks with higher device ratings should be able to handle the Deckers and TMs from groups like gangs, small companies, low level security, etc. And if you're running into a group that has cause for a higher level hacker, then you should be on a level of gear, karma, and preparation to deal with them, unless there has been some very bad decision making happening in your team. Course, I'm basing this entirely off what I've read in these discussions since I haven't gotten my hands on the book yet.
It's the same way as in SR4, I believe.
Basically, when you are looking for a hidden node, it goes like this:
- You make a matrix perception test, and you learn if there are any hidden devices within signal range (In SR5 this is only within 100 feet)
- If you know what you are looking for (I want to target that persons hidden gun) you can make a matrix perception check to find that node in particular, (This works the same way in SR5)
- If you don't know what you are looking for, you target a hidden device at random.
So.... There's a powerful server out there that knows who I fired my gun at?
Not quite, instead all of the computers around you all have a tiny inkling of what you might have been shooting at, because instead of using a small amount of processing power available to your device to make millions of calculations, you're using all the computing power in the vicinity.
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How about detecting devices? I never thought that SR4 was all that clear in just what a hacker finds and how much they know when they do a scan.
So for example, lets say a ganger goon is dumb enough to have a grenade in his backpack with the wireless on. How does a hacker even know it's there to hack?
Also, worrying about enemy hackers doesn't seem to me like it should be as big a worry as many make it out to be. The setting basically provided an excuse for all the script kiddies disappearing, the need for security spiders decreasing thanks to GOD taking the role, and the cost of buying/building a deck. Running into a Decker or TM (who actually decides to learn to hack systems and not just use the matrix as a normal person) shouldn't be nearly so common anymore. Sounds like commlinks with higher device ratings should be able to handle the Deckers and TMs from groups like gangs, small companies, low level security, etc. And if you're running into a group that has cause for a higher level hacker, then you should be on a level of gear, karma, and preparation to deal with them, unless there has been some very bad decision making happening in your team. Course, I'm basing this entirely off what I've read in these discussions since I haven't gotten my hands on the book yet.
It's the same way as in SR4, I believe.
Basically, when you are looking for a hidden node, it goes like this:
- You make a matrix perception test, and you learn if there are any hidden devices within signal range (In SR5 this is only within 100 feet)
- If you know what you are looking for (I want to target that persons hidden gun) you can make a matrix perception check to find that node in particular, (This works the same way in SR5)
- If you don't know what you are looking for, you target a hidden device at random.
So.... There's a powerful server out there that knows who I fired my gun at?
Not quite, instead all of the computers around you all have a tiny inkling of what you might have been shooting at, because instead of using a small amount of processing power available to your device to make millions of calculations, you're using all the computing power in the vicinity.
The "device at random" rule is actually really hilarious when you think about it, chiefly because WEAPONS never fold into your icon, So you hack a place with your deck and bunch of Ares Predator V's with smart link in wireless and set to run silent slaved to it.
Then when the spider tries to find you he's most likely only going to get one of your guns. Granted when he manages to get a mark on the gun (which is no easier than marking your deck) he'll know where you are, but it will still buy you some extra time, possibly a lot of time if he decides to try and attack the gun to boot it off the network) and something tells me in this new matrix set up a little extra time can go a long way.
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True I suppose. Any smart runner will have his firewall jacked up high, or slaved to something with a high firewall. With that, if someone does try to mark your stuff on the sly, you'll know before too much damage is done. If they attack, you know automatically.
To be clear, at no point is one hacker going to suddenly brick all your equipment at the same time, you'll always know what is going on before something like that happens.
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True I suppose. Any smart runner will have his firewall jacked up high, or slaved to something with a high firewall. With that, if someone does try to mark your stuff on the sly, you'll know before too much damage is done. If they attack, you know automatically.
To be clear, at no point is one hacker going to suddenly brick all your equipment at the same time, you'll always know what is going on before something like that happens.
Once again going form memory, but there is an action that lets you check who has marks on your equipment and how many,
As previously mentioned grenades are the only real thing you are in danger of for sudden hacks because by their very nature their purpose is to let you explode them as a free action, which means it only takes one mark to be able to set them off on your belt. So either do not use them/only turn them on right before you throw them, or carry one wireless grenade and fourteen Ares Preadator V's slaved to a rating five comlink all running silent, and spin that roulette wheel that anyone trying to hack your gear will get tired of spotting pistols and give up/screw up and alert you.
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"I just spotted tons of Ares Predators, we got an army incoming. Call for backup, NOW!"
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Hah, that would certainly be something. I suppose that means that there could be any given number of hidden devices in any given area, so it would be a waste of time for a hacker to go through any of them without at least a small detail of what they are looking for.
Interesting.
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"I just spotted tons of Ares Predators, we got an army incoming. Call for backup, NOW!"
The thing is, they only get to spot one Ares at a time and spotting them is no easier than spotting you. So they're not just chaff, they're chaff that is as manuverable as the plane which deploys them,
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So.... There's a powerful server out there that knows who I fired my gun at?
Not really. It's distributed computing. Your smartlink asks the nearest few hundred (or maybe few thousand, who knows what sixty decades of computing development will look like?) or so devices to do a couple of computations each and send it back. The way those computations are put back together and what they're used for stays in the smartlink (and maybe anybody snooping on it ...).
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Wouldn't it be more interesting to buy a personal deck then and let that one handle the math? Put it in a backpack, wire your devices to it, let it help you with the calculations. If you happen to run without decker you still get the advantages and you're not a hacker target.
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It would, I suppose.
I think the point is that no one device has enough resources to compare to the cloud in any meaningful way. At least to preserve flavor, that's what I like to think.
And decks are crazy expensive.
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Hey, if my paranoid-to-wireless character can buy (or steal) a cheap deck so the smartgun and enhancements work right...
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Hey, if my paranoid-to-wireless character can buy (or steal) a cheap deck so the smartgun and enhancements work right...
There aren't really any cheap decks, but you can buy a comlink with a high firewall, slave all your wireless devices to the comlink and let the comlink defend the rest of your nodes. The advantages decks have over comlinks is mostly on the offensive hacking side, rather than the defensive or signal side. Paranoid to wireless doesn't seem like it will be a hugely effective strategy in this edition (nor frankly does gear hacking look like it will be much of anything but a last resort).
Or you can just have your team's decker slave the gear to his deck (which could turn nasty if your decker crosses you...).
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Hey, if my paranoid-to-wireless character can buy (or steal) a cheap deck so the smartgun and enhancements work right...
Cheapest deck is supposed to be 50k. However, as I understand it the basic difference is that a deck has Sleaze and Attack attributes, whereas a commlink does not - both, however, provide Data Processing and Firewall attributes, the latter being what's relevant to securing your stuff. However, getting a deck might be enough to let you run silent effectively - or perhaps some skill is needed.
You could probably still manage a decker/sam with Resources A, Attributes B, Skills C, Meta D, and Talent E; Attributes to Logic, Agility, Intuition, and lower Charisma. Full freight of negative qqualities, karma to skills. You might be able to swap Attributes and Skills around and going karma to attributes - hard to say for certain which is the better choice.
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Hey, if my paranoid-to-wireless character can buy (or steal) a cheap deck so the smartgun and enhancements work right...
I stand by my previous analogy to SIRI. If you can come up with a way to carry a warehouse's capacity worth of computing power on your back, if I were the GM, sure I'd allow that.
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Hey, if my paranoid-to-wireless character can buy (or steal) a cheap deck so the smartgun and enhancements work right...
Cheapest deck is supposed to be 50k. However, as I understand it the basic difference is that a deck has Sleaze and Attack attributes, whereas a commlink does not - both, however, provide Data Processing and Firewall attributes, the latter being what's relevant to securing your stuff. However, getting a deck might be enough to let you run silent effectively - or perhaps some skill is needed.
You could probably still manage a decker/sam with Resources A, Attributes B, Skills C, Meta D, and Talent E; Attributes to Logic, Agility, Intuition, and lower Charisma. Full freight of negative qqualities, karma to skills. You might be able to swap Attributes and Skills around and going karma to attributes - hard to say for certain which is the better choice.
Run silently is an option on the equipment itself not the deck or comlink, so you can set your grenades/smart gun system to run silently in wireless even if nothing is defending them. That's not a good strategy but you can do it.
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I recall Bull saying something about it not being all that effective without a Sleaze attribute.
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The test to resist being spotted is Sleaze + ... um ... Logic? Anyway, there's a lot fewer hits and possibly a high risk of glitches if you don't have a Sleaze attribute. And if it actually is Logic, your typical gillette or heavy-hitter isn't going to do well with the test.
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The test to resist being spotted is Sleaze + ... um ... Logic? Anyway, there's a lot fewer hits and possibly a high risk of glitches if you don't have a Sleaze attribute. And if it actually is Logic, your typical gillette or heavy-hitter isn't going to do well with the test.
Really? I would have suspected Logic + Hacking with Sleaze as a cap...
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If they want it to be attemptable without a Sleaze attribute, then it can't use Sleaze as it's limit.
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It's a Hide Matrix action, and it's Electronics Warefare + Intuition [Sleaze] vs Intuition + Data Processing.
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I thought Hide was for shaking off spotting, not resisting Matrix Perception when running silent.
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I thought Hide was for shaking off spotting, not resisting Matrix Perception when running silent.
Define what you mean by "shaking off spotting" because honestly I don't think you can do any "hiding" of that sort at all in 5E.
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Cheapest deck is supposed to be 50k
Good lord. What's the price scaling on these things if that's a Rating 1? Even if device ratings have dropped by one across the board it's still probably cheaper to boost your Response and Signal than it would be for someone to get a deck good enough to get through.
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Cheapest deck is supposed to be 50k
Good lord. What's the price scaling on these things if that's a Rating 1? Even if device ratings have dropped by one across the board it's still probably cheaper to boost your Response and Signal than it would be for someone to get a deck good enough to get through.
I think I read that its supposed to be device rating 4, not 1.
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I thought Hide was for shaking off spotting, not resisting Matrix Perception when running silent.
You're right. I misread the original question.
You were right the first time. It's a defensive opposed test, and when doing defensive tests, you use the appropriate deck rating plus an attribute. Kind of like you use two attributes to dodge and attribute plus armor to resist damage.
Define what you mean by "shaking off spotting" because honestly I don't think you can do any "hiding" of that sort at all in 5E.
If someone spots you while you are running silently, you can attempt to lose them by using a Hide action.
Good lord. What's the price scaling on these things if that's a Rating 1? Even if device ratings have dropped by one across the board it's still probably cheaper to boost your Response and Signal than it would be for someone to get a deck good enough to get through.
Whole new paradigm. Response and Signal no longer exist. The only four matrix attributes now are Attack, Sleaze, Data Processing, and Firewall.
Commlinks run between 100¥ and 8000¥ and only have Data Processing and Firewall, but cannot hack or run decking programs. (You no longer need programs to do things like data search and such).
Cyberdecks, on the other hand, also have Attack and Sleaze attributes, which you must have to do any kind of hacking. These run between 50,000¥ and 825,000¥.
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ALso, while Cyberdecks have a Device Rating, this is just a general ballpark of the devices power level. It also tells you how many programs the deck can run at any one time. They have an array of numbers that they can assign to the four attributes (and can move around as needed using an action). The Device Rating 1 deck, the Erika MCD-1, for example, is a Device Rating 1, but has a 4 3 2 1 Array. So you can have Attack 4, Sleaze 1, Data Processing 2, and Firewall 3. Or switch up Attack and Sleaze, or whatever.
Programs generally provide some sort of bonus or utility when they're being run now, rather than being required to do certain matrix actions.
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Okay, why the change? Attack, Sleaze, Data Processing, and Firewall... Data Processing i assume to be the closest to Response (hardware capability) Attack and Firewall would be software... What on earth is Sleaze? Now of course these assumptions all go out the window if programs and hardware have both been replaced by dedicated firmware. It would also mean upgrades and new autosofts would be like plunging in an old NES cartridge. Also, if we don;t have signal then how do we know the range of our Wifi?
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Range= Until you suffer so much static your dice pool hits 0. So far as I can tell.
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I have the quick start rules and don't recall rules for static.
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Yup. Range is near infinite, but distance applies Noise penalties (As does other things). Noise is similar to normal sight modifiers and penalties, or even backgroudn count in Astral Space.
And as for why? To streamline and simplify the new Matrix even further.
Attack is, well, you're ability to impart Brute Force hacking on things, whether by damage or simply overpowering.
Sleaze is an old term from previous decking systems. It's your stealth rating. If you want to do something sneaky and you haven't been detected yet, you use Sleaze.
Data Processing is your processing power. It governs a whole range of things.
Firewall is Firewall, your defense.
And Quick Start Rules are VASTLY simplified. There's a LOT that's not in there.
Bull
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So are these all considered to be hard, soft, or firmware? I mean i get Response (Hardware processing capability,) Signal (Wifi/radio strength/range), System (Operating System, a program.) and then all of your software. But now how does everything stack, what's dependent on what?
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It should all be a combination of hard and software, given that you can swap attributes around.
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Swap in what way? just upgrade them without concern for one and other? That would basically be firmware. Software on dedicated hardware.
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See, I like the whole idea of reducing the dicepool modifiers. It makes that skillrank + attribute so much more important, it's grittier and I really like the flavor. Dumping the bonuses as a whole, rather than have players grumbling and having the stuff not work inside facilities anyway, sounds like something more fitting that gritty flavor. With the faster hacking, longer battles and a few houseruled options for hackers to spoof communications, I keep the gritty flavor while not going "urk" on DRM and XBone (which is now XBOX180, aka XBibo) stuff.
Well, I agree of sort on some points, but the fact is that if you dump all the bonuses instead of making them full part of the cyber instead of their "reduced equivalent without wireless", you will favor a lot implants that by their sheer presence give large bonuses (like wired reflexes, because IP do it better, indeed you would not get the reaction bonuses, but an IP is a lot more worth of losing your essence that just pushing a limit. If talking about character optimization, I prefer having Edge and higher quality gear and possibly some points left for something, that spending huge money on implants, being seen as very dangerous and having hard time because of it, be it socially, for your freedom and for your health. And not getting something really worth of it. External equipment has this advantage that when you need to let it go, it is easy, all it takes is to drop it. Difficult with cyber, then you have to improve even further or stay at the same place, but improving is more constraining and limited.
So if implants bonus are kept at the "low level" of SR5, I predict that your houserule would favor some combos, given some players.
For the mark access problem on items, it should not be related to the time/complexity of the related action you trigger, which if I followed well, is a second action after you put the mark on the item, but to the degree of security making sense to such a function. Because actually, a credstick payment should not be so long or complicated (if it is long, it pisses off corps because it is not time efficient so they lose money, which they don't like). And even with rating 5, if you only need one mark to make a fund transfert or a virtual payment to your credstick, well, there will be a new kind of trick for players that won't need to have to deal with car stealing and organ harvesting to pull up some extra money;)
SO saying that triggering a grenade is 1 mark is plain illogic for me. If you were needing wireless at all, that I'll accept for the sake of reasoning (but thinking of it, I would not think it is the same kind of wireless that what use decks and commlinks. The same way your bluetooth thing is not wifi, and that they are different from FM SB WB radiowaves and so on. So no hacking in this regard. Unless you decide to specifically use your brains against your own survival by linking this nice trigger command to your commlink for special effects;)).
There aren't really any cheap decks, but you can buy a comlink with a high firewall, slave all your wireless devices to the comlink and let the comlink defend the rest of your nodes.
Still Michael solution offer the advantage of not being dependant on the grid. Would I be a spider, what I would do if my site was attacked would be to cut access to outside matrix by cutting the relays on my field (cause in a building, this is likely that there must be relays to go outside of the Faraday Cage. Physics did not change so much in 70 years;))
Or you can just have your team's decker slave the gear to his deck (which could turn nasty if your decker crosses you...).
Or get wasted with a bullet. Deckers took so much of a powerup with their new all in one abilities that they could be the new mages (and as such, be shot/thrown grenades first).
As for new decks attributes, that is not so different from all 3 first editions, as their was some Force, Body, Masking and another (don't remember clearly, sorry), plus Hardening and MPCP as a device rating, and response were the wired reflexes of matrix. That only changed a lot in 3rd ed and totally in 4th. I guess that range could be assessed from device rating as it was part of its purpose in SR4. And I don't see too much to whatever else this rating could be used (that and being the opposite of noise, so you don't losing signal because of your cheap deck would be some kind of interesting challenge at times;)). Actually the idea of array is fine, will give more diversity, and I guess more constraint to customize instead of starting from scratch. This "return" to old attributes makes me regret even further program carriers;)
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or you can just use a datajack
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Swap in what way? just upgrade them without concern for one and other? That would basically be firmware. Software on dedicated hardware.
I can't recall whether it is a Free, Simple, or Complex action, but you can on the fly exchange the valuses of the attributes. You can go from Data Processing 4 and Firewall 3 to Data Processing 3 and Firewall 4.
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or you can just use a datajack
Signal as it's use, like being able to continue hacking while on the move in your car pursued by goons. Which is pretty difficult when you are attached to something with a wire;) Indeed, you can run, but you will only go so far as the lenght of the wire, I guess.
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What would you be trying to hack and still be moving? I think basic security protocols would include needing to be wired. In addition, you're not going to be hacking cyber-ware or weapons as cyber-ware doesn't need (have?) wireless when it can be hooked to your nervous system. You're not going to be hacking guns either unless you're dealing with a moron or a few rare situations (like using smart contacts instead of goggles, glasses, or head ware.) Riggers are about the only people you're going to work over and we're not even certain on how easy that's going to be seeing as how they completely ditched the Response>System>Software approach... I'm going to miss that.
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What would you be trying to hack and still be moving? I think basic security protocols would include needing to be wired. In addition, you're not going to be hacking cyber-ware or weapons as cyber-ware doesn't need (have?) wireless when it can be hooked to your nervous system. You're not going to be hacking guns either unless you're dealing with a moron or a few rare situations (like using smart contacts instead of goggles, glasses, or head ware.) Riggers are about the only people you're going to work over and we're not even certain on how easy that's going to be seeing as how they completely ditched the Response>System>Software approach... I'm going to miss that.
1: The target might be wired only, but if it's connected to a wireless node it's accessible via wireless.
2: You seem to be assuming complete wireless isolation of the PAN. You shouldn't - that's not all that typical.
And SR5 is a completely different story, as there are reasons why you might WANT to go wireless for your gear because it gives you certain advantages.
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So far we've heard of sealing chem suits with a free action as opposed to a complex... I don't think it's going to be all that useful as far as gear goes. Secondly, this is the second edition in which we have had full wireless capabilities. I think by now anyone who is competent will realize that the most secure thing they can do is simply log off. Even people who regularly operate in wireless mode will probably switch over to wired or simply not use it, doubly so if even one of their friends get's hacked. I'm not saying that going wired is perfect. I'm saying that all things considered it's the safest. Hell, odds are I'm not even going to be playing a rigger anymore unless they give us an effective means of protection against hackers as giving them a boost appears to be the primary objective of this edition. Used to be a good operation didn't give them time to do anything, they either never noticed you or you got out before they could. Then there's Sybil, which we still don't have a good grasp on... you know what, forget the data jack... i'll use goggles and bio-ware.
By now I suppose everyone's wondering why I hate wireless so much seeing as how I've been strongly opposed to it's use on runs. The reason is because I have survived three near party wipes because I was willing to ditch the digital and go old school. Spiders got two teams. Juhseung Saja Black IC got the other.
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We've heard of more than that - +rating dice for Vision/Audio enhancement (normal effect is just a limit modifier), +2 dice for a smartgun (normal effect is a limit modifier), wired reflexes and reaction enhancers stacking... There've been a few that have been outlined now. Some are certainly more useful than others - and that chem seal thing is a lot more useful than you think; just wait until you're getting gassed on a pass where you have no actions (as you still have a free action at that point).
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We've heard of more than that - +rating dice for Vision/Audio enhancement (normal effect is just a limit modifier), +2 dice for a smartgun (normal effect is a limit modifier), wired reflexes and reaction enhancers stacking... There've been a few that have been outlined now. Some are certainly more useful than others - and that chem seal thing is a lot more useful than you think; just wait until you're getting gassed on a pass where you have no actions (as you still have a free action at that point).
If i'm in a situation where I'm likely to be gassed then odds are I already have my gas mask on as a convenient face covering anyways. If I'm dressed as John Q public then I'm in a situation where as I'm unlikely to get gassed. If I am being gassed while dressed like that then something has gone insanely wrong. Also, why would we get better modifiers for going wireless than going wired? Kind of counter intuitive ain't it?
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We've heard of more than that - +rating dice for Vision/Audio enhancement (normal effect is just a limit modifier), +2 dice for a smartgun (normal effect is a limit modifier), wired reflexes and reaction enhancers stacking... There've been a few that have been outlined now. Some are certainly more useful than others - and that chem seal thing is a lot more useful than you think; just wait until you're getting gassed on a pass where you have no actions (as you still have a free action at that point).
If i'm in a situation where I'm likely to be gassed then odds are I already have my gas mask on as a convenient face covering anyways. If I'm dressed as John Q public then I'm in a situation where as I'm unlikely to get gassed. If I am being gassed while dressed like that then something has gone insanely wrong. Also, why would we get better modifiers for going wireless than going wired? Kind of counter intuitive ain't it?
There's a lot of reasons why the bonuses can make sense - many of them have to do with distributed computing being a core piece of the new Matrix protocols.
And if you're going in with a gas mask, that's gonna be different from, say, putting a chem seal into your usual working armour - the latter is specifically there to be a non-intrusive way of being prepared for that situation where you DIDN'T think gas was a concern.
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You know what, screw it... I'm just going to leave the sparky bits to someone else and pack the strongest Jammer I can. Put it right next to my camera neutralizer and Leal grenades. Spend my drone money on bioware.
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We've already been told the proper citizens will use the wireless in vast numbers. The Corps are pushing it. The only questions are if shadowrunners will use it and how deep it will spread into the noncorp areas. What this means is that there will definitely be targets for deckers to hack.
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We've already been told the proper citizens will use the wireless in vast numbers. The Corps are pushing it. The only questions are if shadowrunners will use it and how deep it will spread into the noncorp areas. What this means is that there will definitely be targets for deckers to hack.
And, of course, if you aren't on the Wireless....what are you hiding? You must be up to no good.....
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They already can't keep track of all the information that's going around. At what point are they going to hit the limit of diminishing returns?
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Secondly, this is the second edition in which we have had full wireless capabilities. I think by now anyone who is competent will realize that the most secure thing they can do is simply log off.
I am all with you. But for covert ops and so on. When you have to be connected (for example, assuming you are using a link in a Secure AAA area), well being connected being a staple, why not trying to get some advantage from it. If you are not in a situation of direct opposition, but more something where the target is not aware of your presence, well having some distributed computation around (I don't think that could be identified as an activity, but I would like to see some specific detection actions for this) could help.
If you do it in the smart way, not going all out wireless so that if tables turn, then you will be able to get your nervous system hacked because you put your wired reflexes as well as your goggles online...
Then there's Sybil, which we still don't have a good grasp on... you know what, forget the data jack... i'll use goggles and bio-ware.
We don't know if bioware implantation use nanotech, you know. That could be in some body areas;) So maybe no implanted character is safe.
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It it uses nano tech it would the pink goo kind which can't be reprogrammed. So unless it's in the nanites from the get go you should be safe.
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It it uses nano tech it would the pink goo kind which can't be reprogrammed. So unless it's in the nanites from the get go you should be safe.
Muhuhahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
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It it uses nano tech it would the pink goo kind which can't be reprogrammed. So unless it's in the nanites from the get go you should be safe.
Muhuhahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Well that's a bit disconcerting. :o
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It it uses nano tech it would the pink goo kind which can't be reprogrammed. So unless it's in the nanites from the get go you should be safe.
Muhuhahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Well that's a bit disconcerting. :o
;D
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If it twitches like a ghoul, shoot it like one.
Fuck the Sybil.
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He's (Lysanderz) Infected!
It's going to be like The Thing, isn't it?
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Oh, much, much worse. ;D
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I'm thinking this is gonna be like the Uzumaki strain of the Exsurgent Virus in EP. A.k.a some rull nasty shet.
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If everything is connected... Doesn't that mean that your Matrix-enabled gear helps people shoot you? Like, an assassin with a smartgun comes up. His smartgun is Matrix-enabled, so it connects to all devices within a certain range. The majority of those devices are being carried by the people he's about to kill. That has to be a bit depressing.
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If everything is connected... Doesn't that mean that your Matrix-enabled gear helps people shoot you? Like, an assassin with a smartgun comes up. His smartgun is Matrix-enabled, so it connects to all devices within a certain range. The majority of those devices are being carried by the people he's about to kill. That has to be a bit depressing.
"Hello, I'm Grimmy, it appears your ammo is flattening against your target's dermal sheathing. Would you like help in aiming at the weak points?"
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I'm thinking this is gonna be like the Uzumaki strain of the Exsurgent Virus in EP. A.k.a some rull nasty shet.
I swear to god if I see Shion she dies on sight!
If everything is connected... Doesn't that mean that your Matrix-enabled gear helps people shoot you? Like, an assassin with a smartgun comes up. His smartgun is Matrix-enabled, so it connects to all devices within a certain range. The majority of those devices are being carried by the people he's about to kill. That has to be a bit depressing.
"Hello, I'm Grimmy, it appears your ammo is flattening against your target's dermal sheathing. Would you like help in aiming at the weak points?"
God damn you paperclip!
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I'm thinking this is gonna be like the Uzumaki strain of the Exsurgent Virus in EP. A.k.a some rull nasty shet.
I swear to god if I see Shion she dies on sight!
If everything is connected... Doesn't that mean that your Matrix-enabled gear helps people shoot you? Like, an assassin with a smartgun comes up. His smartgun is Matrix-enabled, so it connects to all devices within a certain range. The majority of those devices are being carried by the people he's about to kill. That has to be a bit depressing.
"Hello, I'm Grimmy, it appears your ammo is flattening against your target's dermal sheathing. Would you like help in aiming at the weak points?"
God damn you paperclip!
I assume "grimy" is actually an ammo clip.
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I assume "grimy" is actually an ammo clip.
Take a look at CanRay's avatar.
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It it uses nano tech it would the pink goo kind which can't be reprogrammed. So unless it's in the nanites from the get go you should be safe.
Muhuhahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Actually, I am not sure if I progressively find some evident details about the Sybil, or if in the end I feed the Freelancers (or at least, the possibility they have to make us stress about it;)).
For the nanite part, we don't know if they act directly, through their programming, in which case you are right Damien, or as a relay for something else. Remember, a little things are not working in conventional ways here.
Sometimes it feels like the nanites could be the medichlorians the Sybil needs to express its force. Again, that's gonna be nasty.
Can't wait to read the fluff about that.
About Grimy and other things, I don't think that the devices brought by the victims will help so much. Partly, indeed, and I like the irony, but the discussions in the other thread about wireless seem to imply a very wide number of connections through the nearby Matrix. But yeah, it could happen that your own devices (at least, not all those wifi enabled but those with processing power, huge difference) will help nail you.
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I assume "grimy" is actually an ammo clip.
Take a look at CanRay's avatar.
;D
Also, I hear they're called "Paper Magazines" now. :P
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*facepalm*
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Any runner worth his salt don't use ammo clips (or magazines) any more. Instead, he wears grenade belts:)
(And indeed, grenades are also able to communicate with the smartgun;) But I guess their tries to help wouldn't do much good:
Smartlink: "Seems indeed that ammo is not flying to the good parts"
Grenade: "You are no doing it well, don't send one metal shard in one direction, send a lot of metal shards in all directions!"
Smartlink: "...")