Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Wildcard on <03-08-13/1120:34>
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9MiMjQwd2VE
You're welcome.
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It's pretty sweet. Glad I backed it.
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"Say hello to my little friend!"
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I'm a sucker for tactical, turn-based combat like this. After the success of X-Com last year, I'm hoping to see more games in this under-served genre on the market.
Point is, I will totally pick this up. As you can probably guess (by the fact that I'm presently posting on this on this forum), I'm a fan of the Shadowrun setting. And the gameplay looks interesting with lots of choices but not quite as full-on "what the crap is happening" complex as the pen-and-paper game.
Also definitely like that an editor is coming along with it. That would be a lot of fun to screw around with.
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Also definitely like that an editor is coming along with it. That would be a lot of fun to screw around with.
Oh yeah. I can't wait to do an apartment-clearing bug hunt.
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Pistols, SMGs, Shotguns, and Assault Rifles, < Takei >Oh My!!!< /Takei >
And Jake's back!!!
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:o I was just watching this......this is so cool
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They also just shot out an email that backers can increase their backer level (if they're so inclined).
I...uh...I won't. Because mine was already pretty high before I knew I was also going to be (even tangentially) working on it, to boot. I have plenty of SRR swag comin' to my house as it is, Mrs. Crit's already a little crabby at me for it. ;D
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I've talked to my family about increasing my level to the point where I could be an NPC in the game.
The beatings will continue in just a short period of time. :'(
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They also just shot out an email that backers can increase their backer level (if they're so inclined).
I...uh...I won't. Because mine was already pretty high before I knew I was also going to be (even tangentially) working on it, to boot. I have plenty of SRR swag comin' to my house as it is, Mrs. Crit's already a little crabby at me for it. ;D
I'll trade you some home-brew mead for some SRR swag.
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I'm going to bump mine up just a bit. However, I, too, was met by the Glaring Eye of Spousal Doom (tm), so am limiting myself to being able to get the dog tag.
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I'm going to bump mine up just a bit. However, I, too, was met by the Glaring Eye of Spousal Doom (tm), so am limiting myself to being able to get the dog tag.
Yeah, I almost got caught up in it earlier. I limited myself with logic.
If I went to a game store, and saw a box full of SR dogtags for 50 dollars each, would I buy it?
Probably not.
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I'm going to bump mine up just a bit. However, I, too, was met by the Glaring Eye of Spousal Doom (tm), so am limiting myself to being able to get the dog tag.
Yeah, I almost got caught up in it earlier. I limited myself with logic.
If I went to a game store, and saw a box full of SR dogtags for 50 dollars each, would I buy it?
Probably not.
Well, for me it's just a $25 jump and the dog tag comes with the game, soundtrack, and a few other unannounced things on it (according to the Kickstarter description)
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My GM sense is tingling. It is telling me I must begin making missions as soon as I get this game. OK, GM sense, I shall!
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Just watched it, looks really great for what it tries to achieve. The trolls still have short legs but otherwise it all looks good for an alpha version. I predict that the editor will be a major selling point of this game, with thousands of fan-created missions and campaigns following the release. Maybe we'll even see custom art in the game.
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I wonder if you'll be able to design custom spells, such as with Street Magic rules.
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I wonder if you'll be able to design custom spells, such as with Street Magic rules.
I don't think that's listed in the planned features. Besides which, that would be a nightmare to program!
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Heh, I just had to explain to someone why there was no Wireless. ;D
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Holy Fallout 2, Batman!
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Holy Fallout 2, Batman!
Haven't seen the Wastelands 2 Pre-Alpha Footage then, have you? ;D
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I wonder if you'll be able to design custom spells, such as with Street Magic rules.
I don't think that's listed in the planned features. Besides which, that would be a nightmare to program!
Not really, especially not if it had been in the plans at first. You could pretty easily write the spell design system and then use it to build the pre-set spells. Or unify common spell aspects into the same code like any programmer would, and use that in the custom spell system.
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This is something I want. It looks so GREAT and to make your own missions will be FUN AS HECK!
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I've talked to my family about increasing my level to the point where I could be an NPC in the game.
The beatings will continue in just a short period of time. :'(
If only I could spontaneously find several hundred dollars sitting in my spring jacket. :'( I would love to have myself ported in as a Stuffer Shack clerk using the store as a drug den or something (because art should imitate life a bit before shooting it in the kneecap), but baring a stroke of fortune I'll have to stick with what I've got.
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Haven't seen the Wastelands 2 Pre-Alpha Footage then, have you? ;D
Perhaps it's worth noting Fallout 2 was one of my all-time faves.
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My question is I wonder how big you can make your own content? Can you make a whole city worth?
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I didn't know Kickstarter even EXISTED until this was over with. :(
If they're letting people up their pledge, will they let someone pledge that didn't get to earlier?
Because, you know ... I want in. :)
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My question is I wonder how big you can make your own content? Can you make a whole city worth?
Find out when the editor releases, I guess.
I apparently have been volunteered by some forumites to write adventures already. I don't even know if I'll be able to grok the editor!
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My question is I wonder how big you can make your own content? Can you make a whole city worth?
Find out when the editor releases, I guess.
I apparently have been volunteered by some forumites to write adventures already. I don't even know if I'll be able to grok the editor!
I imagine, were that the case, that you could find someone who's no kind of writer but groks the editor just fine.
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I'm seriously considering buying the game, just for the editor... be handy to use it to make maps for tabletop or PbP games.
The game itself... I hate to say I wasn't all that impressed. More the opposite really. Sorry.
From the lack of any social skills (apparently Charisma is all that matters), it looks like it's pretty much a squad-based turn-based combat game.
Which, I have to admit, is among my favorite genres. But I've seen it executed way better in games like Jagged Alliance (2) and very soon, Xenonauts.
Doesn't even look like there'll be an inventory!
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I'm seriously considering buying the game, just for the editor... be handy to use it to make maps for tabletop or PbP games.
The game itself... I hate to say I wasn't all that impressed. More the opposite really. Sorry.
From the lack of any social skills (apparently Charisma is all that matters), it looks like it's pretty much a squad-based turn-based combat game.
Which, I have to admit, is among my favorite genres. But I've seen it executed way better in games like Jagged Alliance (2) and very soon, Xenonauts.
Doesn't even look like there'll be an inventory!
... Dude, alpha footage. Know ye not what this means?
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... Dude, alpha footage. Know ye not what this means?
Uhm, do you?
The alpha phase usually ends with a feature freeze, indicating that no more features will be added to the software. At this time, the software is said to be feature complete.
It means the core of the game is supposed to be built, now they're progressing to cleaning up, making it look nicer, fixing bugs, building levels.
Real features, such as skills and the way they function and something that affects pretty much everything in the game like an inventory are things that aren't normally added after alpha phase.
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... Dude, alpha footage. Know ye not what this means?
Uhm, do you?
The alpha phase usually ends with a feature freeze, indicating that no more features will be added to the software. At this time, the software is said to be feature complete.
It means the core of the game is supposed to be built, now they're progressing to cleaning up, making it look nicer, fixing bugs, building levels.
Real features, such as skills and the way they function and something that affects pretty much everything in the game like an inventory are things that aren't normally added after alpha phase.
Ends with a feature freeze - which means alpha footage, per definition, is not feature complete - and a lot of GUI stuff is so far from being core program logic it's not even funny. Also, games don't always quite do the feature freeze.
And, well, you seem to overestimate the complexity of what is, in essence, just some data structure and a GUI for interacting with it. Code-side, an inventory is actually a pretty simple thing since all the stuff that has to go into it already needs to exist in the form you need it. It's possible for things to become more complicated due to the specific method by which something's implemented, but not likely.
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*shrug* I don't know man...
I'm already looking at it with a positive bias because, you know, it's Shadowrun! *glee*
But if you were to watch the footage without real knowledge of Shadowrun, the simplest conclusion -based on those 20 minutes- as to what the game is would be "Oh look, an X-Com clone without elevation or destructible environment, 'combat powers/special actions', most likely simplified so it's easier to control with the tablet interface." (And imo, X-Com was already pretty much a dumbed down version of many of its predecessors.)
I really, really hope I'm wrong and you're right. But based on the footage, I just don't see it.
More promising looking squad-based TBS game being developed: Xenonauts
More promising looking isometric turn-based roleplaying games being developed: Wasteland 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9hQWqtxXPU), Project Eternity, Torment
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And now you see why most people don't release Alpha Footage.
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And now you see why most people don't release Alpha Footage.
Because two people whined on a forum?
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And now you see why most people don't release Alpha Footage.
Because two people whined on a forum?
No, because a lot of people whine that an 'in progress' shot early in the development phase doesn't look like a completely finished game.
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I read some of the YouTube comments as well. Not just Dumpshock and this forum.
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I read some of the YouTube comments as well.
Well there's your problem.
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Don't do that. It will rot your brain.
If you're using chrome: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/herp-derp-for-youtube/ioomnmgjblnnolpdgdhebainmfbipjoh
There are solutions for other browsers as well :D
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Wow.
Mentioning an opinion other than "Wowzy! It's the best thing since Playboy!" fanboy-ism (along with saying that I'll most likely still buy it) is immediately considered whining?
You guys really...
Wait, sorry, I'm not allowed to say that anymore.
Again, I really hope I'm proven wrong.
But this is a thread labeled "20 minutes of Shadowrun Returns footage" and the first post has got a link to a 20min YouTube movie.
The point of which is to share what we all think about what shown in those 20 minutes, no?
Why not do that instead?
You've got an issue with what I believe I saw in the 20 minute video?
Is hoping to see roleplaying elements in alpha-footage of (what's being marketed as) an RPG that far-fetched?
Then please please please prove me wrong and point me to anything that shows social skills, inventory or heck, even combat stuff like stealth will be in the game instead of just making childish comments and attacks that really contribute nothing to the thread.
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Wow.
Mentioning an opinion other than "Wowzy! It's the best thing since Playboy!" fanboy-ism (along with saying that I'll most likely still buy it) is immediately considered whining?
There's a large gap between fanboy and whiner.
Of course, you're on a forum for Shadowrun fans, so there you go.
If you want to go where everyone hates everything, go to the RPG Codex. (http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/shadowrun-returns-alpha-gameplay-footage.81144/)
Wait. They universally love the game. Guess that just means you're whining.
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I already go to the Codex.
And I'm as much of a Shadowrun fan as the next guy on this forum, which is why I was hoping on seeing roleplaying elements in the game.
Also, found on the codex:
More sneak preview footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8InuCDMpuEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yki3Vpd3Ho0
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I read some of the YouTube comments as well.
Well there's your problem.
Don't do that. That way lies madness.
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I read some of the YouTube comments as well.
Well there's your problem.
Don't do that. That way lies madness.
*Cough* Who am I again?
What do you know of madness? ;D
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There's a small inventory system... you can see the Samurai switching between weapons, for example, while the Troll has spells stored in his "Backpack" that are ready to click-n-cast. The Rigger also has a drone ... possible that this isn't an "inventory item" so much as a "class power", but the rest means that, yeah, you've got options.
Interesting that they went back to the six-attribute system instead of the modern eight.
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What do you know of madness? ;D
Considerably more than you seem to think I do. :)
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There's a small inventory system... you can see the Samurai switching between weapons, for example, while the Troll has spells stored in his "Backpack" that are ready to click-n-cast. The Rigger also has a drone ... possible that this isn't an "inventory item" so much as a "class power", but the rest means that, yeah, you've got options.
One of the tweets said that the inventory system is not very robust yet. Will probably be expanded, I guess
Interesting that they went back to the six-attribute system instead of the modern eight.
I think the reason for this was stated in the original kickstarter, but I may be wrong. They want to use the SR3 attribute and skill system for the oldschool feeling. SRO is supposed to make use of the 'modern' type.
I don't care either way, as I think that rules systems are less important than gameplay and overall feeling.
In other words: I've really liked the footage. I'll probably play the hell out of this game ^^
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I like it, obviously.
I'm not sure comparison with x-com or xenonauts is appropriate -- in both there's no story, all characters are just numbers, there's no open world to roam, no people you can talk to. (also, new x-com aesthetics suck, IMO. why does everyone have to ba space marine?)
Shadowrun Returns isn't supposed to be x-com clone, it's supposed to by it's own thing, and that makes it interesting. Yes, x-com clones have elevation, for example, and possibly more cover and bigger areas, I don't mind, because it's different kind of game. X-com are tacical simulators, SRR is CRPG with team-based turn-based shootouts. The combat is part of the whole, not raison detre of the whole game, so it can be worse, even though I like it more, because it seems more character-centric, with cover and terrain playing smaller role, and I like that more anyway.
I am curious about the system though, it seems spells have cooldowns? I don't mind the old attribute spread, as I like that more than the current one. And I like how you can roleplay, be nice to homeless, provoke gangers and stuff ;D
I'd love to see some other ways to solve that mission, though. One of the presenters talked about using "corporate etiquette" (but there are no charisma skills -- it's possible they aren't ready yet) to get past the guards, and disguises? Or maybe you can get the gang to help you? Showing two or three ways to solve this would make for a great second preview.
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I'm seriously considering buying the game, just for the editor... be handy to use it to make maps for tabletop or PbP games.
The game itself... I hate to say I wasn't all that impressed. More the opposite really. Sorry.
From the lack of any social skills (apparently Charisma is all that matters), it looks like it's pretty much a squad-based turn-based combat game.
Which, I have to admit, is among my favorite genres. But I've seen it executed way better in games like Jagged Alliance (2) and very soon, Xenonauts.
Doesn't even look like there'll be an inventory!
... Dude, alpha footage. Know ye not what this means?
This. Also, I plan on getting jiggy with the editor as soon as I get my copy!
(edit for spelling correction)
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It reminds me strongly of the Super Nintendo game, which is no surprise since they said they were taking inspiration from that. I was pretty obsessed with the two old video games and based on this preview I don't see a scenario where I won't be playing this game a million hours.
I'll say it, it's the best thing since Playboy. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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I didn't care for how fast they were switching between weapons personally.... that makes it far more of a combat game and less of an RPG... if I have the shotgun in hand... there should be some cost for switching off.
While I hear x-com mentioned a lot... I'll bring up another classic... Fallout 1 & 2.
That system was a full fledged RPG in it's own right... and could have easily been pen and paper.
But one aspect of both that worked very well as the action point system.
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I didn't care for how fast they were switching between weapons personally.... that makes it far more of a combat game and less of an RPG... if I have the shotgun in hand... there should be some cost for switching off.
And I imagine once they've implemented an inventory system there might be an action point implication to such actions.
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*Sings in the key of off*
Imagine there's no heaven;
Imagine there's no countries;
Imagine no possessions...
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*Sings in the key of off*
Imagine there's no heaven;
Imagine there's no countries;
Imagine no possessions...
No! Don't touch my Possession mage! :P
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Could John Lennon be used as a mentor spirit...
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Could John Lennon be used as a mentor spirit...
Don't see why not; I think someone's using Elvis, so why couldn't they use Lennon, too?
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Could John Lennon be used as a mentor spirit...
Don't see why not; I think someone's using Elvis, so why couldn't they use Lennon, too?
What about Lenin? :P
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Could John Lennon be used as a mentor spirit...
Don't see why not; I think someone's using Elvis, so why couldn't they use Lennon, too?
Yoko's definitely Toxic.
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So, there's a commentary on the video up on the HBS website.
http://harebrained-schemes.com/post/shadowrun-returns-first-look/
Some quotes and my thoughts:
03:30 - options: Burst Fire, Full Auto etc. We also have character combat abilities like Aim. We also use the tabletop “stages” of damage with from Weak (1/2) to Crit (x2). All of this is based on the math from the SR tabletop game. You can see your chance to hit with every character but you need to invest Karma in weapon specializations to see your chance to crit with each weapon type. As your weapon specialization skill increases, so does your chance to crit.
Note, that it says 'based on the math from the SR tabletop'. It doesn't say 1:1 port, which is very fine by me. It still relies on the underlying rule set and this plays on my nostalgia. I like.
The specializations thing obviously works a bit differently, but I like the added utility of knowing crit chance.
05:00 - Note that Lady Z’s corp security etiquette skill is missing from her character sheet. The screen underwent a recent revision and it was left off of this version temporarily
So, this means that there _will_ be etiquette skills. Good to know, and I'm hoping charisma bombing will be a viable playstyle ^^
One other note – you’ll see that the guard asks Lady Z for her SIN. Just want to make it clear that there’s no “SIN system” in the game and runners are SINless. But fake credentials are very useful in getting past guards, etc.
Very reminiscent of the Genesis version. I like this.
06:10 - You’ll notice the rigger is automatically being followed by his drone. If you check the rigger UI at the bottom of the screen, you’ll see that you can set the drone to remain stationary. That’s handy if you want to leave the drone behind to provide line-of-sight on a location after you leave (so there are no surprises when you get back).
The rigger functionality is a bit limited, but this is a nice touch. I'm guessing there won't be any vehicle chases, only drones.
08:08 - Inside the shaman’s backpack are magical fetishes that he uses for summoning elementals: air, fire, water, and earth. Fetishes are consumable to keep the shaman from being overpowered. They can be replenished by purchasing more at the local talismonger.
Sounds reasonable to me, to be honest. Still waiting for mechanics for hermetic mages, though. I'm curious if they can summon the same way or not at all. This troll shaman doesn't seem to have the spellcasting skills, but I'm wondering if he can acquire them.
16:17 - Shaman don’t always need to expend fetishes for summoning spirits. Intense concentrations of emotions or natural elements can be used as gateways for summoning as well. Only shaman can see them.
Seems to be on a related note to:
15:18 - Ley lines are the intersections of magical energy flowing through the world. Only Mages can see them. When they stand on a ley line, Mages cast spells far more easily and with greater effect: cool down times are reduced, and chances to hit are increased, as is damage.
I would love it, if both classes can summon all the time, but shamans can use those concentrations while mages have the use of the ley 'lines'.
10:14 - Some spells have cool-down times associated with them and you SHOULD wait for that time to expire before using the spell again. However, you CAN use the spell again but you’ll take Drain HP damage from pushing yourself.
Interesting. I wonder if you can also take drain randomly.
This is a cross post, thought the folks here might be interested, too.
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Hoi Chummers!
...I feel Shadowrun returns is an homage to the two previous Shadowrun console titles from the 90's, featuring the equipment, character traits. lore and atmosphere of the 2nd/3rd Ed. Shadowrun timeline, in the form of a deep, computer interactive story, with tactical turn-based video game action sequences we control, and the math from the PnP game adapted by Mike Mulvihill, all told by some of our favorite Shadowrun authors, edited and directed by Jordan Weisman - 'ol man Shadowrun himself.
When I look at it this way, nothing about it disappoints me, because I see it as a piece of Shadowrun entertainment, a story I can engage with and enjoy, and not a typical video game. And as Jordan related during the Kickstarter, "Let's start here--Shadowrun was never about the rules. It's about the game world. If you need proof, look at the 1st Edition rules. They were. . . lacking. But the world caught on and the rules improved."
Which lines up with "If you or your players hate something we've written, change it" - Shadowrun - Page 159, 1st Edition.
It just boggles my mind when some of the most awesome Shadowrun fans around, get angsty over the mechanics of a video game, when most of us love Shadowrun for the mindscape it's always thrilled us with. And no chummers, that's not a challenge. I know this might have come across as a pitch, but it's not my intention. No links, no jazz. I just I love you all, from afar. ^_^
Ja Mata!
-RC
...'juz ah 'nutha Unexplained Genetic Expression in 'da plex
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Well, it's worth pointing out that video games are a lot less adaptive than tabletop rules. Changes the dynamics at play quite a bit.
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Hoi Chummers!
...I feel Shadowrun returns is an homage to the two previous Shadowrun console titles from the 90's, featuring the equipment, character traits. lore and atmosphere of the 2nd/3rd Ed. Shadowrun timeline, in the form of a deep, computer interactive story, with tactical turn-based video game action sequences we control, and the math from the PnP game adapted by Mike Mulvihill, all told by some of our favorite Shadowrun authors, edited and directed by Jordan Weisman - 'ol man Shadowrun himself.
When I look at it this way, nothing about it disappoints me, because I see it as a piece of Shadowrun entertainment, a story I can engage with and enjoy, and not a typical video game. And as Jordan related during the Kickstarter, "Let's start here--Shadowrun was never about the rules. It's about the game world. If you need proof, look at the 1st Edition rules. They were. . . lacking. But the world caught on and the rules improved."
Which lines up with "If you or your players hate something we've written, change it" - Shadowrun - Page 159, 1st Edition.
It just boggles my mind when some of the most awesome Shadowrun fans around, get angsty over the mechanics of a video game, when most of us love Shadowrun for the mindscape it's always thrilled us with. And no chummers, that's not a challenge. I know this might have come across as a pitch, but it's not my intention. No links, no jazz. I just I love you all, from afar. ^_^
Ja Mata!
-RC
...'juz ah 'nutha Unexplained Genetic Expression in 'da plex
Welcome to the insanity, RC! Was chatting with you on Twitch earlier today (as a different screen name, though).
Also, I completely agree with what you've posted. It has always been about the setting, not the rules (those have changed drastically enough over the years!). I loved the setting when I firs played it, which was incidentally also the same year I watched Blade Runner for the first time. I was an impressionable youth...
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Hoi LinkDeath!
Thanks for the welcome, Chummer! That Twitch.tv feed during the Shadowrun Returns interview was crazy! I wish I could have answered more questions, but it was the middle of my work day, ya'know?
More so, I wish many who share our love for the lore and atmosphere of Shadowrun's written word, wouldn't get so hung up on the mechanics. I respect the vital work and math that so many chummers over the years have put in to Shadowrun's game system(s), but they do so to provide us a basis to run with other chummers through the awesome setting of our dreams and nightmares. Getting stuck on one element of a mechanic and not being able to let go, so everyone else at the table can enjoy how we strut, slink, wrangle or blast our way through the shadows, has killed more than one gaming group for me over the years. Then I see them doing it to so many more of us when it comes to other media with which we can engage the fixers, gangs, awakened beasts and megacorps we love to tangle with. As long as the canon, the lore and atmosphere of Shadowrun is preserved, then we have the fuel with which to ignite our imaginations, and have fun. And if the math and mechanics of the game system is your fun, I love you for it, because you're awesome to play with too, if you can let go. ^_^
Gah! Sorry, chummer! 'seems I'm feeling ranty this evening. I think I'll take a break, pour a drink, enhance 15 to 23, print a hard copy, then hop in my spinner before this sector's closed to ground traffic!
Ja Mata!
-RC