Shadowrun Play > Character creation and critique
[SR4a] BP Character Generation: the Math You Really Should Know
Glyph:
Metatype math needs to be looked at in light of the particular build you are doing, because lower Attribute maximums might not matter if you are keeping them as dump stats, low-light vision might not matter if you are getting cybereyes, and the potential Karma savings of starting out with a super-high Body and Strength for a troll might not matter if you are playing something like the street shaman archetype.
Other than that, you have the gist of their capabilities right. Dwarves are a slight bit ahead, orks come out ahead even if you don't raise their boosted Attributes, and elves and trolls typically are only good if you take advantage of their boosted Attributes. One thing to remember about humans is that they don't get any bonuses. So they have less that they can put into Attributes.
One thing to add to the mix is augmentations, which can raise skills and Attributes. Like build points, they give flat increases. Generally, the higher the base Attribute or skill before modification, the more the modification is worth. Muscle replacement (or augmentation/toner), cerebral boosters, most initiative enhancers (which raise Reaction), and reflex recorders are all best if you are boosting a soft-maxed stat into its augmented range. On the other hand, a lot of other augmentations add dice pool bonuses, making them equally useful whether you have a high or a low skill or Attribute. This makes them a better choice if the area in question is low. In other words - if you have gymnastics of 6, you might want to get a reflex recorder for it. If you have the athletics skill group at 1, you might want to get synthcardium (which gives a dice pool bonus) instead.
Adepts are trickier. You have to balance the benefit you get, with what that point of Magic cost you. Improved ability is useful, especially for non-combat skills, but initiative and Attribute increasing powers are more expensive, so they need more scrutiny. From a pure mathematical standpoint, using bioware for those two functions is almost always better, even when you factor in the Magic loss.
Prodigy:
Greatest thread yet. Continue the additions. Not a min-maxer, but this is an optimization Mecca. Nothing you have said makes this negative. Continue this to add optimization on character development (per class) or make it a new thread and you strike gold here.
emsquared:
--- Quote from: UmaroVI on ---I'm too short on time to follow up that magnum opus, but let me add a few points briefly:
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Heh, I won't lie, I've been working on this in my spare time for a week or so.
--- Quote from: UmaroVI on ---1. Be careful about that point 5; you do not always want to focus on maximizing your post-chargen karma efficiency per se, because some things can only be bought with post-chargen karma: namely Magic/Resonance over 6 and Initiation/Submersion. Some characters may want to focus on having all their "must-haves" in place, karma efficient or not, so they can cut straight to the metamagic.
--- End quote ---
It's true, but had to posit that as the basic premise, because it really is.
--- Quote from: UmaroVI on ---2. When to hardcap stats.
3. Complex Forms and why you always get them at 6 at chargen.
4. Spells are pretty karma efficient at chargen.
5. Bonding foci at chargen.
--- End quote ---
Honestly, I wish you and I could somehow co-author this thread Umaro. While you may not have taught me everything I've put up here, you did teach me MOST of it, and turned me on to the whole scam in general. Really, I just was going for the basics at first, I will add a "Special Exceptions" section or something, and sections for more specific concerns like hard-maxing. Someone else will have to author the Complex Forms bit - I've never even looked at a Technomancer. Good bits to add in though all around!
--- Quote from: Glyph on ---Metatype math needs to be looked at in light of the particular build you are doing, because lower Attribute maximums might not matter if you are keeping them as dump stats, low-light vision might not matter if you are getting cybereyes, and the potential Karma savings of starting out with a super-high Body and Strength for a troll might not matter if you are playing something like the street shaman archetype.
--- End quote ---
I've tried to address this with the "Natural" Karma balance of the Metatype. If you don't think this is an accurate representation, I'd be interested in your input on how to better do so.
--- Quote from: Glyph on ---One thing to add to the mix is augmentations, which can raise skills and Attributes. Like build points, they give flat increases. Generally, the higher the base Attribute or skill before modification, the more the modification is worth. Muscle replacement (or augmentation/toner), cerebral boosters, most initiative enhancers (which raise Reaction), and reflex recorders are all best if you are boosting a soft-maxed stat into its augmented range. On the other hand, a lot of other augmentations add dice pool bonuses, making them equally useful whether you have a high or a low skill or Attribute. This makes them a better choice if the area in question is low. In other words - if you have gymnastics of 6, you might want to get a reflex recorder for it. If you have the athletics skill group at 1, you might want to get synthcardium (which gives a dice pool bonus) instead.
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Yeah, I intended to go into this in the future, but tried to address it in my closing paragraph about minimizing skill purchases, maximizing pool increases through everything else (Attributes, Gear/'Ware, this would also include Spells). Will definitely address this, and some 'ware specifically in the future.
--- Quote from: Glyph on ---Adepts are trickier. You have to balance the benefit you get, with what that point of Magic cost you. Improved ability is useful, especially for non-combat skills, but initiative and Attribute increasing powers are more expensive, so they need more scrutiny. From a pure mathematical standpoint, using bioware for those two functions is almost always better, even when you factor in the Magic loss.
--- End quote ---
Adepts could just about be their own thread, but yeah, since there's been such a positive response, I'll work on expanding the scope.
Thanks everyone for the positive input! More to come.
Bewilderbeast:
Just want to echo every one else and say that this is a great thread. I love the complexity of Shadowrun's character creation, but there's also quite the tyranny of choices. Having some basic optimization advice is very helpful to a noob like me (and others as well, I'm sure). I hope you can continue with this, because what you have so far is excellent.
One thing I would love to see is some outlines on BP or chargen efficient gear and 'ware (with perhaps some rulebook page citations). With somebody like me who is still learning the core rules and mechanics, it's not feasible for me to leaf through Arsenal, War!, Gun Heaven, the core book, and Augmentation to find the optimal choice, so I often just grab some stuff out of the core book out of sheer laziness.
UmaroVI:
Let me give the quick rundown on complex forms.
CFs cost 1 karma per point of new rating, or 1 bp per rating (2 karma) at chargen.
This is (a) why you always take CFs at max and (b) why you should think long and hard about not hardcapping Resonance as a technomancer or taking 'ware as a technomancer.
1 = 2 karma = -1 post-chargen karma
2 = 2 karma = 0 post-chargen karma
3 = 2 karma = 1 post-chargen karma
4 = 2 karma = 2 post-chargen karma
5 = 2 karma = 3 post-chargen karma
6 = 2 karma = 4 post-chargen karma
Cumulatively, 6 is worth 9 post-chargen karma saved.
As you can see, the karma savings scale very fast and so you really want CFs at 6.
It's also worth noting how this interacts with hardcapping Resonance.
Going from 5 to 6 resonance is 25 bp or 30 karma, so -20 post-chargen karma. However, each CF going from 5 to 6 is 4 post-chargen karma saved, so at 5 you break even and at 6 you come out ahead. Very few technomancers will want less than 5 CFs.
The main exception is technomancers who plan to exclusively focus on sprites, and Logic-stream technomancers for whom the 'ware investment is worth the cost.
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