[Angelone]

Yeah it is, what you gonna name the youngster?

[hazmat the monstar]

Jesse James Franks

[FoxBoy]

Why does PnP Gaming get such a bad wrap?

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I'd like to hear your opinion on this issue.

Bottom line, It's the media and organized religion acting like bullies, targeting a group that is not well understood and vilifying them in the name of ratings or gathering followers to 'their' cause. And nothing gets people to side with you then to have a common enemy. Even if you have to make the enemy up to be more then he is.

I've had to delete what I wrote three times as it had turned into a rant. I so f--king HATE the media... They wouldn't know what "reporting the truth" was if it came up and nailed them upside the head with a baseball bat that had a railway spike driven through it.

[freddieflatline]

@ FastJack

That chart is one of the funny things I have seen in a long time.  Thanx.

[Nomad Zophiel]

OK, its like this:
1. All those gamer stereotypes are true for a certain minority of the gamer population. . . a certain, very visible, portion of the gamer population. The people who don't fit the mold tend to "fit in" and often don't mention their gaming hobby because they don't want to be associated with the other guy. That out of sight, out of mind behavior just re-enforces the idea that the vocal minority is a representative sample.

2. Any hobby looks silly from the outside. Vampire LARPers dress in goth costumes and play rock, paper scissors while pining. Boffer LARPers dress like pleather knights and hit each other with vaguely sword shaped pillows. Model railroaders are grown men spending hours in the basement playing with toy trains. Look at quilting, skateboarding, free running, scrapbooking, martial arts or anything else from an outside perspective and the behavior involved seems a bit silly. In the case of gaming (and fandom in general), though, the vocal minority seems to lack the perspective that discussion of one's hobbies and/or interests is not always appropriate in a majority of situations.

[Kot]

That comes with age. I've just got hired to be a GM and watch out for a bunch of teenagers at a RPG-themed winter break camp. And the woman hiring was amazed, that i didn't bombard her with gaming trivia. Well, she obviously dealt with significantly younger GM's before.

[Mystic]

I also tend to think that with the rise of current video games and MMORPGs tend to overshadow the old fasioned PnP. Lets face it, PnP requires things like...effort, imagination, at least a small amount of social skills, and a bit of patience. And, I hate to say, most teens are so impatient and living in a society of instant gratification that they tend to see PnP as lame. Imagine a head shot? Why, like, when I can watch a head explode while playing the latest Final Grand Theft of the Bio-Assassin's Call XVII: Black Dead Reconing, Fantasy Ops.

 

[Frostriese]

I also tend to think that with the rise of current video games and MMORPGs tend to overshadow the old fasioned PnP. Lets face it, PnP requires things like...effort, imagination, at least a small amount of social skills, and a bit of patience. And, I hate to say, most teens are so impatient and living in a society of instant gratification that they tend to see PnP as lame. Imagine a head shot? Why, like, when I can watch a head explode while playing the latest Final Grand Theft of the Bio-Assassin's Call XVII: Black Dead Reconing, Fantasy Ops.

 

Well, Im no teenager, but who knows, I might actually be below the age average here, so might as well defend them :p :

While what you say has some truth, I could as well generalise about the older generation ranting about how things were so much  better back in their day, and that current youths are basically spoiled brats

I think there is nothing wrong with both having high end graphic computer games and PnP. Their niches overlap, but by far not completly. I think the worst problems is not RPGs on the computer or the console, I think the worst problem is how few "pure" RPGs there are anymore there, and how much the genre gets mixed with action genres like FPS. Nothing against those, per se, but... well. Eventually the action elements drone out the actual roleplay and story elements. And that sets expections also for the PnP market, making PnP games, too, ever more action and less story orientated. So, yes, if there is a problem Id say its that.

[Kot]

Well, it's not that bad. Look at Modern Warfare? What made it so popular? A good story for those who enjoy it, plus carnage and multiplayer for those who don't.
That's why Black Ops wasn't as good. That, and more pres-x-not-to-die scenes.

[FastJack]

I said it before and I'll say it again. Bioware is the only company that has really gotten it right. They started off with the old Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games, graduated to the Knight of the Old Republic series and hit their maturity with Dragon Age and Mass Effect. All those games have great balance between role-playing and combat situations, without losing anything from either. And the stories are awesome as well.

As for RockStar games, the only one I was able to really get into was Arkham Asylum and that's because they did a terrific job of making you feel like you were Batman in that game.

[Dead Monky]

Personally, I like Bethesda's games a lot.  Of course, I like being able to wander off and ignore the story or mod the crap out of the game as I see fit.  So there's that.   

[Nomad Zophiel]

I said it before and I'll say it again. Bioware is the only company that has really gotten it right. They started off with the old Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games, graduated to the Knight of the Old Republic series and hit their maturity with Dragon Age and Mass Effect. All those games have great balance between role-playing and combat situations, without losing anything from either. And the stories are awesome as well.

As for RockStar games, the only one I was able to really get into was Arkham Asylum and that's because they did a terrific job of making you feel like you were Batman in that game.

OK, if we're talking character and story, them's fighting words. 
Don't get me wrong, I like everything from KOTOR on but they're not the only ones to get who got their balance right. The System- and Bio-shock series did amazing things with 1st person and I honestly miss the strategy combat elements of the old Fallout and Arcanum. Those were basically PnP systems where the computer crunched the numbers. In fact, there's a rumor that Fallout was very nearly the first licensed GURPS video game. The license fell through and they made a new PnP system instead but you can see the similarities. Bet Steve Jackson still kicks himself over dropping that ball.

[FastJack]

No need to fight, just my personal preference on the games.

[Mystic]

Well, Im no teenager, but who knows, I might actually be below the age average here, so might as well defend them :p :

While what you say has some truth, I could as well generalise about the older generation ranting about how things were so much  better back in their day, and that current youths are basically spoiled brats

I think there is nothing wrong with both having high end graphic computer games and PnP. Their niches overlap, but by far not completly. I think the worst problems is not RPGs on the computer or the console, I think the worst problem is how few "pure" RPGs there are anymore there, and how much the genre gets mixed with action genres like FPS. Nothing against those, per se, but... well. Eventually the action elements drone out the actual roleplay and story elements. And that sets expections also for the PnP market, making PnP games, too, ever more action and less story orientated. So, yes, if there is a problem Id say its that.

Eh, get off my lawn. 

But seriously, I have nothing against any game of any kind, as a new father it is just alaming for me to see what I consider a bit of a dumbing down, instant gratification, not have to work for anything attitude in a lot (thankfully not all) of "kids". I just worry that imagination is being killed in favor of easier, quicker, "cooler". Granted, Im sure that every parent, of every generation has had similar feelings. I know "imagination" is changing from what it was for me, but dag-nabbit *grin*, I guess I want a bit more balance and seeing scores of kids who walk with their heads down in some electronic device rather than taking a moment to actually look around...kind of frightens and saddens me at the same time when I think that may be my little girl someday.

And, off the soapbox.

[Critias]

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
--Socrates

It's been goin' on for a long, long, time.