Shadowrun
Off-topic => General Gaming => Topic started by: Aelavel on <11-05-12/2047:41>
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Since the 1st-4th Editions are dead, was thinking of converting it to the shadowrun rules, & instead of magic, have it be the Force. Any thoughts or suggestions, would be appreciated :D
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I think I really, really miss the WEG days. :'(
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I think I really, really miss the WEG days. :'(
Feck..... Yes I still have knocking around somewhere on a memory stick a floorplan a fan did of the old Skyblind Recon Ship. I Loved It. You can allways tell the success of a product (bloody shame about the fact he got screwed on the licence and business end) by the effort the fanbase to produce Quality goodies. Sort of like the fanbase of another game that came from the same era, can`t think of its name but it had the tagline, Man, Machine and summat else. ;)
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I think I really, really miss the WEG days. :'(
Nah, Star Wars was the ONE game that WotC did pretty good on.
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That comment just made me puke a little. Then again, I think WotC has done a pretty pathetic job on everything since D&D 3rd. They've even managed to dumb Magic down past the point o Pokemon from what I've seen.
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They are busy "broadening their consumer base" by "making games more accessible for new players".
Maybe they learned from Electronic Arts.
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While they may have lowered the learning curve, it is also true that D&D 4th is D&D in name only. In reality, it is more like WoW than D&D. And no, that wasn't a compliment.
While making games more accessible for new players is a fine goal, you have to make sure you don't drive away the players you already have.
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While they may have lowered the learning curve, it is also true that D&D 4th is D&D in name only. In reality, it is more like WoW than D&D. And no, that wasn't a compliment.
While making games more accessible for new players is a fine goal, you have to make sure you don't drive away the players you already have.
"OK, so I tap this card to use this ability, and then wait for the cooldown to... WHEN THE HELL DID I START PLAYING MAGIC???" - My first demo of D&D 4th.
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While they may have lowered the learning curve, it is also true that D&D 4th is D&D in name only. In reality, it is more like WoW than D&D. And no, that wasn't a compliment.
While making games more accessible for new players is a fine goal, you have to make sure you don't drive away the players you already have.
"OK, so I tap this card to use this ability, and then wait for the cooldown to... WHEN THE HELL DID I START PLAYING MAGIC???" - My first demo of D&D 4th.
All too damn easy to launch into a why i hate the 4th tirade and bile fest but simply they lost me when they gave everyone something to do and I realised it wasn`t based on what characters could do in the fantasy genre they were just making sure everyone had something to do each round. That and the combats stopped feeling like combat and more like final fantasy type endeavours.Cancerous Rat Pizzle effort of an RPG but it would have made a cracking computer game ..... it would have taken the players a week tho
to crack an algorithm tho and have the computer play itself till you hit epic level, sort of like bots in WoW..
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CanRay and Dave sum up my point nicely. At least in Shadowrun, while some mechanics have changed over the years, other than the leap from the wired to wireless Matrix, there haven't been any major changes that disrupt the feel of the game. Sammies are still sammies, a mage is still a mage, and a hacker still hacks. The core of the game remains the same, and since there is only one 'world' in Shadowrun, the products are a lot more focused than the core D&D products are, and have more depth to them, flavor-wise.
Of course, this is a problem that isn't just seen in RPGs. Back in the day, Nintendo was king, but they got full of themselves, which lead to Sega being a thing, and Playstation after them. Later on, Sony said "We can charge $600 for a console because it is the new Playstation" and people bought the much cheaper X-Box 360 and Wii in droves. Companies get to thinking that because they're the top dawg, they can do anything, and neglect their existing customers.
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WotC lost me as a customer when they did their 4th Edition. I won't even try the new Star Wars rpg that FFG has - I've been burned one too many times. WEG got the feel of Star Wars from the beginning, and the system is still the best.
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To be fair, DR, FFG isn't WotC. WEG still got it right, I fully admit, but I'll check out FFG.
At least, if they put out a free Quickstart Rules such item. Won't buy unless they do one HELL of an epic job, however.
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FFG?
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FFG?
Fantasy Flight Games.
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FFG?
Fantasy Flight Games.
FFG has been doing massively good work on a number of properties. Their basic product line is high end board games like Tannhauser and Arkham Horror, but they've also done several excellent RPGs under licence.
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It's going to take a lot to be better than Saga Edition Star Wars, IMO. D&D4 is complete crap, but Saga was pretty good and worked well.
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I wanted fourth edition to be good. I wanted it so badly. I could taste it.
Even when my friends said it was crap I replied 'No, the next book will fix it! It must!'
Man was I wrong. :(
Fortunately, it was shortly after that I found the awesome win that is shadowrun.
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I'm with you, Fuel Drop. When it first came out, I really tried to make a go of it. But after the newness of the system wore off, and I started looking into ways to customize things and make new character types, I was sorely disappointed. It was basically a pen and paper version of WoW, and that bit deep. Still, I'll be looking to see what they do with this D&D Next they're coming out with. Won't buy it until I've read through some scans of it, though.
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Gave D&D4 multiple chances myself, and eventually just gave up. Some of what I've heard about this new one is encouraging, but there's an equal amount that makes me go WTF?.
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I'm done with D&D. Doubt I'll even test 5th ed.
Seeing what they've done with both D&D and M:tG (seriously, it looks more childish than Pokemon right now!) I simply don't have any trust left for that company.
Will just play Pathfinder or 3.5ed instead.
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I'm done with D&D. Doubt I'll even test 5th ed.
Seeing what they've done with both D&D and M:tG (seriously, it looks more childish than Pokemon right now!) I simply don't have any trust left for that company.
Will just play Pathfinder or 3.5ed instead.
Haven't even bothered looking at Magic in years. Got out of it when I had hundreds of dollars worth of cards stolen and just didn't feel like spending that again (even over the course of years like was done before).
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I'm done with D&D. Doubt I'll even test 5th ed.
Seeing what they've done with both D&D and M:tG (seriously, it looks more childish than Pokemon right now!) I simply don't have any trust left for that company.
Will just play Pathfinder or 3.5ed instead.
I haven't even thought about D&D 5th, I'll probably take a look at it and see what they did when it comes. Call me a hopeful rolemantic. ( :o That was awful)
As for the Starwars saga, I won't say it's better than the last one. The content layout in the books is a nightmare, but they improved on a lot of content, yet they really dumbed it down and made it too modern D20ish for me, although they did improve on using the force from the last edition. That was way too podunk. Also no skytri. No angels for you players! ;D Of course they can still play those emo blind guys, what were they called? Oh yeah, Miraluka. (totally played one of those.) Honestly, I was happy enough to have any system to enjoy the flash and romance of the starwars universe without Georgie boy f&%#king it up like usual.
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I picked up the Beta version of FFG's Edgoe of the Empire ruleset for Star Wars when I was at GenCon. There are somethings
I am a little disappointed on, but given that they are doing like they have done with the 40K RPGs, I can understand them
not including EVERYTHING in the first book. Also, unlike WotC, they are not luddites, and are actually making adjustments
based on feedback from the Beta . In fact, they make them fairly frequently from what I have seen. It will be interesting
when the game is finally released.
Overall, it is a very flexible system The only gripe I have is the use of special dice(like they are using for their X-wing game).
However, those special dice have stuff where you might still fail a roll, but put yourself at and advantage for the next, or put
someone else at a disadvantage. Also, though they reduced one thing ont he Lightsaber in one of the feedback based changes,
the lightsaber, unlike in any of the versions of the rules, is fragging DEADLY! Even if you are in the best armour, it is a) getting
through and b) hurting you! (Hint: Even in the best armour, it is going to do damage, and if it does damage, it, pretty much,
always rolls for a critical effect...just need to determine by how much it goes to determine how BAD the critical effect will
be. Also, by the rules, every critical hit you take....gives your opponent a bonus on their next critical hit effect roll...)
The Edge of Empire rules, though, do not focus on the Rebellion or Jedi. They focus on the smugglers and fringers. In essence,
it is the book that almost everything Han, Chewie, Luke, and Leia did in A New Hope(up to the Battle of Yavin) would be covered by, but does not touch the Rebellion military or the deeper sides of the Jedi and Force, which are the books planned over the
next two years of releases.
deal with the stuff you would see
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That's one thing that bugged me in the 3 SWRPG versions that WotC published (OCR, RCR, Saga), was the low lightsaber damage... I realize that they were trying to balance out the Jedi/Sith, but the damage was very low.
I have invested too much money into WEG SW and Saga to go with an all-new version. Pretty much the only way that I will try FFG's version, is if they gave copies of their launch copy of EE out for free (and I'm talking the "dead tree" version).
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On converting star wars to SR shouldn't be much a of a problem.
its getting the power levels right will be the problem. A mystic adept (which many of the jedi would need to be, IMO) does not start very powerful compared to a WEG or SW Saga jedi
Saga Star Wars was done well. it just did not have the support of the WOTC, and ended up being shut down. Saga was also used as a test bed for several of the concepts that became DND 4th.
WOTC realized in making a game that played like a MMO, they lost people. Pathfinder scooped them up.
The new playtest materail shows WOTC is trying to fix the problems.
Time will tell if SR 5th will be any good.
Me? I really don't care so much about the game system as I do the setting and the group I am playing with. I played DND 4th for awhile because I enjoyed the group I was with. If someone started a Saga Star Wars in my area, I would try to join
Until then, Shadowrun Missions
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Never played ad&d for more than a couple of games over twenty years. Don't understand the obsession with it.
X-boxes originallt were loss leaders, sold below their cost price to break into a new market with the goal of making the money back through periphals and microsoft games.
Have heard good things about starwars though.
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Its definitely plausible.
My groups have always either altered ShadowRun or White Wolf rules to fit into other systems since we thought they were better, and they didn't require us to purchase a ton of dice (especially the ones you use every once in a while). In one sense, it simplifies the game, but in another it allows you to go more in depth about certain aspects without making it too complicated.
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<fanboy noise>
Just found this: http://d6holocron.com/ (http://d6holocron.com/) . . . if anyone cares, and didn't already know.
WEG's Star Wars far outstripped anything WotC released while they had the license, IMO.
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WOTC realized in making a game that played like a MMO, they lost people. Pathfinder scooped them up.
The new playtest materail shows WOTC is trying to fix the problems.
From what I've heard on that end, they're trying too hard to keep the "MMOers" they picked up with 4th ed while trying to get back the older players they lost. They need to realize that's not possible, and they need to choose whether to get back what was lost or keep what they picked up--either/or not both.
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You guys didn't like DnD 4th edition? Imo it was a big improvement. It fixed annoying things like character customization, diversification, fun and other nuisances that were bogging down the game.
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You guys didn't like DnD 4th edition? Imo it was a big improvement. It fixed annoying things like character customization, diversification, fun and other nuisances that were bogging down the game.
Me? I thought it was a great miniature wargame.....and was wondering when they would come out with the RPG.