[psycho835]

Maybe Ghostwalker is just a hopeless romantic?
... 

[Ursus Maior]

Due to the separate ownership (licensing?) of the Earthdawn and Shadowrun IP's, it is my understanding that the SR writers & freelancers have being doing their best to cut (or at least, not expand on) ties between the two IPs. Events that happened, still happened, but going forward there won't be anything intentionally Horror or Earthdawn related.

Not Horror-related, but the Atlantean Foundation is still around and smaller plots circle around the concept of previous civilisations. But I guess we won't see any background on that.

[Wakshaani]

Well, stuff that's been revealed is still free game, but anything plucked newly from Earthdawn's not since, you know, different company and all that.

That said, there're probably a couple of people in Aztlan that are interested in bringing Horrors over, but the main power block that Mr Darke had is long gone and with him went the majority of teh knowledge base. The fanbase rejected, and rejected MIGHTILY, the entire concept way back when (When Threats introduced the concept, there was a mail-in response form that asked for ups and downs on the assorted plots, and who buddy, did they bury Horrors), and sicne then there's just really been no push for it. I kinda dug it, but I'm in the minority, and there're way bigger fish to fry in writing terms, so, I've never bothered to put together any sort of Horrors Return proposal.

AFAIK, it'd be possible, if a convincing case could be  made to the upstairs offices, but it'd have to be good and no one's really driving for it.

Really, Shadowrun has enough magical badguys right now. I'm more interested in getting some tech stuff in there and much more interested in the mundane, from gangers to megacorps. Everyone can interact with that kind of foe, but astral foes (or Matrix foes) inherantly lock out a good chunk of teh playerbase. More fun for everyone, I say.

[Sengir]

Maybe Ghostwalker is just a hopeless romantic?
... 

Or maybe Zebulon has/knows something he's interested in...

[Nath]

That said, there're probably a couple of people in Aztlan that are interested in bringing Horrors over, but the main power block that Mr Darke had is long gone and with him went the majority of teh knowledge base. The fanbase rejected, and rejected MIGHTILY, the entire concept way back when (When Threats introduced the concept, there was a mail-in response form that asked for ups and downs on the assorted plots, and who buddy, did they bury Horrors), and sicne then there's just really been no push for it. I kinda dug it, but I'm in the minority, and there're way bigger fish to fry in writing terms, so, I've never bothered to put together any sort of Horrors Return proposal.

Corporate Download was at the time quite clear about the end of this plot, but as far as I can tell, a lot of gamemasters did not notice. Since, Corporate Guide opened the door for a comeback, but suggested there should be no big events.

Corporate Download, Game Information, pages 127-128
In the '50s, Oscuro implemented an aggressive plan to use blood magic to bring on the next phase of the world, one in which Aztechnology would rule. He failed, and Domingo Chavez usurped the board, sending many Oscuro supporters to the Yucatan and pushing forward his own plans. [...]
With the rise of Domingo Chavez and the fall of Oscuro, blood mages have lost much of their support and privilege. They still remain, though they are less public and active: some are hiding while others have maintained their positions of power within Aztechnology by siding with Chavez. They are primarily used for religious functions, ritual sorcery, torture and assassination. Blood mages should be initiates (minimum Grade 8 ) and are rated as Professional and either Superior or Superhuman.

Corporate Guide, Aztechnology, page 75
My sponsor was a man named Oscuro, who led the faction that controlled the blood mages and the priesthood. He aspired to bring about the end of the Fifth Sun, so that the world would crumble and Aztlan alone would have the power and foresight to survive and protect humanity. His effort failed and claimed his life. Control of the priesthood fell to another on the board, the High Priest of Tezcatlipoca. I could tell he did not trust me, for I was Oscuro’s man. He was right, but for the wrong reasons. Under Oscuro, I saw that what I was doing was not holy—now I only hope to die a noble death.
I have fled, my life forfeit, hoping only to redeem myself before Quetzalcóatl by exposing the secret darkness that corrupts the heart of Aztlan. I remain bound to Tezcatlipoca, and his High Priest can see through my eyes, speak through my mouth. Thus I have gouged out my eyes and cut out my tongue. What this cult hopes to achieve, I do not know. I know only that they scoffed at Oscuro, at his “short-sighted goals,” and say they have learned from his mistakes and his haste. And I know they are looking for something.

[Wazlethwack]

Personally, I don't think Shadowrun should have the Horrors return.  It's too early for that.  And if we got an early Scourge the entire meta-plot would have to revolve around that.  I wouldn't seeing some immortal elves outed to the public.  It'd be interesting to see the fallout from that.

Tech is nifty but Shadowrun has always been a blending of tech and magic.  I hope that continues.  And magical meta plots don't necessarily require any Earthdawn connection.

[Parker]

     Gotta agree with Nath.  Long-time Gms' probably have already got something in mind for their individual, (a.k.a. home-ruled), games, but the 'official' view of Catalyst has been to separate the old FASA material, (circa mid-80's till end of 3rd Ed.), from the new, post-4th Ed. material.  Hey, I'll admit I have a soft spot for the whole Lovecraft-styled invaders from a distant dimension concept but even the earlier books explained why meta-humanity shouldn't be worried about them for a millennium.  Now the bugs and shedim, plus other threats, have done a decent job of presenting an immediate challenge to a typical shadowrunning team.  And ya gotta admit, even the material from "Threats" and "Threats 2" can keep a Gm busy with plenty of ideas to keep his/her group busy! 
No need for any Horrors yet?!?

[Wazlethwack]

I've read the reason that Shadowrun and Earthdawn are separated is legal concerns because two different companies own the products.  Now I'm not a lawyer but I don't see what kind of lawsuit FASA Games could bring against Catalyst ( or vice versa).  No one's going to commit copyright violation by lifting passages from Earthdawn material or using someone else's trademarks. 

So what is the legal issue, if I may ask?

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

... what?!?

Catalyst can use anything from OldFASA Earthdawn; the two properties were owned by the same company, and had cross-fertilization up until they got sold to different concerns.  That's the end of when SR can play with ED.  Nothing produced by other companies since that split in regards to ED can be used by the makers / writers of SR.  Conversely, anything up to that point is fair game for SR writers, if they somehow want to toy around with something-or-another.

And the legal issue is intellectual property rights.  You claim that 'no one's going to commit copyright violation'; that's exactly what the legal issue is, or rather what it would be.  The reason they won't is because doing so opens them up to Lawsuit City, and NewFASA doesn't want frickin' Topps hauling out the guns and putting big holes in their little company, and Topps doesn't want NewFASA to be able to tear off big slices of cash because someone got frickin' stupid with the wrong quote.

[Wazlethwack]

As I said, I'm not a lawyer so I could very well have my head firmly implanted up my ass.

But... how can linking fictional worlds be illegal?  If you're not plagiarizing another work or violating a trademark?

[psycho835]

Personally, I don't think Shadowrun should have the Horrors return.  It's too early for that.  And if we got an early Scourge the entire meta-plot would have to revolve around that.  I wouldn't seeing some immortal elves outed to the public.  It'd be interesting to see the fallout from that.

Tech is nifty but Shadowrun has always been a blending of tech and magic.  I hope that continues.  And magical meta plots don't necessarily require any Earthdawn connection.

Oh, I don't want them to return to the Sixth World, that would ruin the game. But I DO want them to return to the metaplot. They would act as the Reapers in "The Arrival" DLC - you don't fight theem, you fight their servants. You have to cut them off BEFORE they enter or it's game over.

Oh, and I've just gotten myself "Street Grimoire", there is a new extraplanar threat, Engkanto. Their schtick is making faustian spirit pacts. "Everything is gonna go your way, but in exchange you will have to do THIS for us. Oh, and if you try to end the arrangement or refuse an order this is going to change. Quickly." Personally I like to think that they act as a sort of a vanguard to SOMETHING much worse, paving the way from the deep metaplanes (or beyond).

... what?!?

Catalyst can use anything from OldFASA Earthdawn; the two properties were owned by the same company, and had cross-fertilization up until they got sold to different concerns.  That's the end of when SR can play with ED.  Nothing produced by other companies since that split in regards to ED can be used by the makers / writers of SR.  Conversely, anything up to that point is fair game for SR writers, if they somehow want to toy around with something-or-another.

And the legal issue is intellectual property rights.  You claim that 'no one's going to commit copyright violation'; that's exactly what the legal issue is, or rather what it would be.  The reason they won't is because doing so opens them up to Lawsuit City, and NewFASA doesn't want frickin' Topps hauling out the guns and putting big holes in their little company, and Topps doesn't want NewFASA to be able to tear off big slices of cash because someone got frickin' stupid with the wrong quote.

Let me get this straight. As long as Catalyst uses only OldFASA material, it's technically legal, but NewFASA could raise stink and no matter the outcome, there would be losses. Am I getting this right?

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

But... how can linking fictional worlds be illegal?  If you're not plagiarizing another work or violating a trademark?

Because a fictional world is often a trademark, and is just as often - especially if you're making money out of it - plagarizing another work.  You ever notice that, y'know, Star Trek doesn't link itself to Star Wars, and vice-versa?  I mean, they're fictional worlds, right?  It's a matter of ownership.  Anything that could be a reference to something that was created after OldFASA runs the risk of 'plagarizing another work or violating a trademark'.

Let me get this straight. As long as Catalyst uses only OldFASA material, it's technically legal, but NewFASA could raise stink and no matter the outcome, there would be losses. Am I getting this right?

So long as you're thinking 'anything created after OldFASA sold the rights', yes - which is why such references (and having been browsing stuff, caers and the like ARE actually still being referenced) are being kept somewhat vague.  References aren't to the Seven Daggers of BadLuckLand, it's to 'to a really fraggin' old iron knife with an aura that gave me the willies'.  It isn't a obsidimen liferock, it's a chunk of stone that has a peculiar aura.  These sorts of references, if by implication instead of specifics, and so long as they're essentially likely to be referring to something in OldFASA's ED material, are vague enough to get along - by which we mean 'would provide a strong defense in court, which would just waste NewFASA's money in pursuing'.

Seriously, it's enough for developers and freelancers to throw in a hint every now and then, that allows players of EarthDawn to smile, chuckle, and nod to themselves.

[Wazlethwack]

Thanks for the explanation.  I do hope we eventually get obsidimen in Shadowrun though.  I don't know about windlings...

[Mirikon]

Windlings are Pixies. And there have been references to Obsidimen (not by that name) a few times in 4th, and Golden Snout has a Ts'krang working for him (though everyone says he's a changeling).

[Crimsondude]

Pixies were introduced in Paranormal Animals of Europe, and so they'd be grandfathered in anyway. T'Skrang ... not so much. Officially.