[UmaroVI]

I think we just disagree about that one, then - I find memorable characters are often defined as much, if not more, by their flaws - especially character flaws - than their strengths.

[JoeNapalm]

I get what you're saying, Cantor, but a character in the Cyberpunk genre really shouldn't be defined solely on their positive traits.

There are no Paladins in Shadowrun...and if there were, they wouldn't be running the Shadows.

I mean, there's no rule saying you have to have Negative Qualities, if you don't want them. But it makes for a very goody-goody character. No flaws, no personal or personality problems, no enemies, no weaknesses...not so much as an allergy to cats?

Some cyberpunk archetypes from literature:
Deckard had a drinking problem, and his ex-wife called him "Shushi" because he was such a cold fish. Case was a cripple and a burned out drug addict. Molly Millions got her start in a meat-puppet brothel. Johnny Mnemonic carved out his memories to get more RAM. Turner is so paranoid he shoots an innocent man for no reason.

Again, not trying to say you have to like Negative Qualities - just that they're more than just a source of free points to be exploited.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[CanRay]

"There's no Angels in the Shadows, possibly none left in the world at all.  We all do things only for selfish reasons."

[Neurosis]

I think we just disagree about that one, then - I find memorable characters are often defined as much, if not more, by their flaws - especially character flaws - than their strengths.

Strongly agree. Negative Qualities have generally been great roleplay enhancers for my little group. And taking 35 points worth makes it more likely that you will actually take something that strengthens your character (in the literary, not mechanical sense) while you're trying to strengthen your character (in that other, numerical sense).

Some cyberpunk archetypes from literature:
Deckard had a drinking problem, and his ex-wife called him "Shushi" because he was such a cold fish. Case was a cripple and a burned out drug addict. Molly Millions got her start in a meat-puppet brothel. Johnny Mnemonic carved out his memories to get more RAM. Turner is so paranoid he shoots an innocent man for no reason.

Again, strongly agree.

[Phylos Fett]

Some cyberpunk archetypes from literature:
Deckard had a drinking problem, and his ex-wife called him "Shushi" because he was such a cold fish.

Deckard? Rick Deckard from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

[JoeNapalm]

Some cyberpunk archetypes from literature:
Deckard had a drinking problem, and his ex-wife called him "Shushi" because he was such a cold fish.

Deckard? Rick Deckard from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

Yes, the Deckard from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?/Bladerunner.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Phylos Fett]

Some cyberpunk archetypes from literature:
Deckard had a drinking problem, and his ex-wife called him "Shushi" because he was such a cold fish.

Deckard? Rick Deckard from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

Yes, the Deckard from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?/Bladerunner.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

Ah - so it's from the movie. Cool. Explains why it click with me as being from the novel.

[JoeNapalm]

Some cyberpunk archetypes from literature:
Deckard had a drinking problem, and his ex-wife called him "Shushi" because he was such a cold fish.

Deckard? Rick Deckard from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

Yes, the Deckard from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?/Bladerunner.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

Ah - so it's from the movie. Cool. Explains why it click with me as being from the novel.

Yeah, I can't keep the Deckard from the book and the movie separate in my head. Philip K. Dick himself said, several times, that Harrison Ford's portrayal of Deckard was perfect, though...so I think it still works.

Either way, book or movie, I don't think you can get a lot more Cyberpunk than Deckard.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Critias]

There are no Paladins in Shadowrun...and if there were, they wouldn't be running the Shadows.

Well, not counting the ones from the Tir, yeah. 

I'm a tremendous advocate of well thought out Negative Qualities, for the simple reason that there should be something wrong with you to take this job.

If someone was completely mentally stable, didn't have deadbeat friends he lets manipulate him, didn't have a social disorder, didn't have a tragic past that haunted him, didn't have a unique medical problem, didn't have tremendously powerful enemies that make him poisonous to be around, wasn't tangled up in organized crime, didn't claw his way from abject SINless poverty, didn't have an issue with authority figures, etc, etc, etc, and still had 400+ build points to spend on himself -- why isn't he holding down a stable, legal, regularly paying job somewhere?

Why isn't your street mage teaching at a college or working full time in Thaumaturgical research?  Why isn't your combat medic riding in a DocWagon chopper or operating at a hospital?  Why isn't your street samurai Adam Jensen'ing it up somewhere as the head of corporate security someplace?  What reason has your hacker got for not raking in the nuyen from a cubicle somewhere, relaxing in air conditioning as he plugs his brain into a computer instead of getting shot at?

There should be something wrong, either fundamentally, socially, or tragically, with your character for him to be running the shadows.  And Negative Qualities are a terrific way to define that "something," to hash out the details with your GM, and to make sure that the game remains nominally balanced regardless of what your "something" is.

[baronspam]

There are no Paladins in Shadowrun...and if there were, they wouldn't be running the Shadows.

Well, not counting the ones from the Tir, yeah. 

I'm a tremendous advocate of well thought out Negative Qualities, for the simple reason that there should be something wrong with you to take this job.

If someone was completely mentally stable, didn't have deadbeat friends he lets manipulate him, didn't have a social disorder, didn't have a tragic past that haunted him, didn't have a unique medical problem, didn't have tremendously powerful enemies that make him poisonous to be around, wasn't tangled up in organized crime, didn't claw his way from abject SINless poverty, didn't have an issue with authority figures, etc, etc, etc, and still had 400+ build points to spend on himself -- why isn't he holding down a stable, legal, regularly paying job somewhere?

Why isn't your street mage teaching at a college or working full time in Thaumaturgical research?  Why isn't your combat medic riding in a DocWagon chopper or operating at a hospital?  Why isn't your street samurai Adam Jensen'ing it up somewhere as the head of corporate security someplace?  What reason has your hacker got for not raking in the nuyen from a cubicle somewhere, relaxing in air conditioning as he plugs his brain into a computer instead of getting shot at?

There should be something wrong, either fundamentally, socially, or tragically, with your character for him to be running the shadows.  And Negative Qualities are a terrific way to define that "something," to hash out the details with your GM, and to make sure that the game remains nominally balanced regardless of what your "something" is.

This is spot on.  One of the hardest parts of coming up with a good backstory is "why doesn't this guy have a straigth job?  He has skills falling out of his ears, why doesn't he have something with a medical plan?"  Generally, you have either been burned by someone and your on the lam, or something makes you not work and play well with others.. 

[Cass100199]

I think I'm gonna have to load these into Chummer so I can just print them off or manipulate ad needed. Whoever created that program should get hired by catalyst.

[LostProxy]

I think I'm gonna have to load these into Chummer so I can just print them off or manipulate ad needed. Whoever created that program should get hired by catalyst.

I've seen this mentioned around. What is this chummer program?

[Comely]

I think I'm gonna have to load these into Chummer so I can just print them off or manipulate ad needed. Whoever created that program should get hired by catalyst.

I've seen this mentioned around. What is this chummer program?

It is the best character generator I h ave been able to find for SR4E

http://www.dndjunkie.com/dev/chummer/Chummer.zip

[theKernel]

That was amazinggggggg ()b

[rasmusnicolaj]

There are no Paladins in Shadowrun...and if there were, they wouldn't be running the Shadows.

Well, not counting the ones from the Tir, yeah. 

I'm a tremendous advocate of well thought out Negative Qualities, for the simple reason that there should be something wrong with you to take this job.

If someone was completely mentally stable, didn't have deadbeat friends he lets manipulate him, didn't have a social disorder, didn't have a tragic past that haunted him, didn't have a unique medical problem, didn't have tremendously powerful enemies that make him poisonous to be around, wasn't tangled up in organized crime, didn't claw his way from abject SINless poverty, didn't have an issue with authority figures, etc, etc, etc, and still had 400+ build points to spend on himself -- why isn't he holding down a stable, legal, regularly paying job somewhere?

Why isn't your street mage teaching at a college or working full time in Thaumaturgical research?  Why isn't your combat medic riding in a DocWagon chopper or operating at a hospital?  Why isn't your street samurai Adam Jensen'ing it up somewhere as the head of corporate security someplace?  What reason has your hacker got for not raking in the nuyen from a cubicle somewhere, relaxing in air conditioning as he plugs his brain into a computer instead of getting shot at?

There should be something wrong, either fundamentally, socially, or tragically, with your character for him to be running the shadows.  And Negative Qualities are a terrific way to define that "something," to hash out the details with your GM, and to make sure that the game remains nominally balanced regardless of what your "something" is.

Very well said.
They should quote you that in the core rulebook 

Regards
Rasmus