NEWS

[SR6] Edition Poll

  • 92 Replies
  • 15378 Views

tenchi2a

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 120
« Reply #75 on: <08-17-19/1549:14> »
I liked playing D&D 4e, but after Essentials, aka 'we dun goofed with MM1 and player progression, and we refuse to admit it, so instead we will release basically 4.25 and force you to rebuy your books', I haven't bought a single D&D book again. So I'd say plenty of companies mess up big time.

Don't get me wrong, I hate D&D and WotC.
But I have to give WotC credit.
They realized that 4th was a cluster an tried to fix it with 5th and the open playtest.
I will give you that they milked it for all it was worth first.
And if it was not for it being D&D/WotC they probably would not have survived 4th.

I just don't want to see CGL do this because I don't think they have the ability to weather the same with 6th and survive.

Hephaestus

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
  • "Milk Run" is a mighty weird way to spell TPK
« Reply #76 on: <08-17-19/1842:18> »
So the "fragging over their players" is in response them knowing the issues and going ahead with printing and sale, not the number of editions they have put out over the years which in truth was low for RPG games.

This is an accurate assessment.

You say potato...

My point is you can look at the times between editions, the different publishing companies, any of the factors in the list. When I posted the the Shadowrun list, the first response was that the game owners were “fragging  over the players”, which was not my opinion.

My point is if you like the current edition, you’ll say the list is proof that they worked to improve to get to the current, while if you don’t like the current, you’ll say it’s proof that the developers don’t know what they are doing. In truth, it’s neither, since the gaming landscape is constantly changing and to be successful you have to make a game that people will buy. Even if that means losing long-time fans.

To be fair, I like some of things that this edition has. What I do not like, as tenchi2a said, are the major omissions/poor editing/shoddy game mechanics along with the generally flippant attitude from CGL surrounding the launch of 6th ed (and Sprawl Ops, if you watched their GenCon stream).

I got one of the hard copies from GenCon for $50, and once the SECOND errata drops, I'll have to keep a (most likely) 20- to 30-page document (40+ if they actually include usable examples of things they glossed over) with said book to make it usable. That is unacceptable.

When a company knows that their book is so bad they have to drop a hot-fix at the pre-release stage, they shouldn't be pre-releasing the book. If CGL had any integrity, they would be rushing to reprint the books and getting ready to eat the cost of 850 exchanges. Barring that, the PDF should be scrubbed from the contents to character sheet before it goes live so no errata is needed.

FastJack

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6374
  • Kids these days...
« Reply #77 on: <08-17-19/2144:54> »
I just don't want to see CGL do this because I don't think they have the ability to weather the same with 6th and survive.
In this doomed outlook, Catalyst Game Labs will be fine. The Shadowrun license on the other hand...

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2802
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #78 on: <08-17-19/2213:12> »
If the License go the way eclipse phase, we can fan release the needed errata for 5th, and run with that until, whomever picks up the licences go through development process again. A couple years is no big deal. 
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

FastJack

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6374
  • Kids these days...
« Reply #79 on: <08-17-19/2255:50> »
If the License go the way eclipse phase, we can fan release the needed errata for 5th, and run with that until, whomever picks up the licences go through development process again. A couple years is no big deal. 
Who's going to pick up the license? Catalyst got it because they were fans that rallied together to make sure it didn't die out the last time. Topps owns the license, and they aren't going to sell it out to someone like Hasbro, so it would have to be another small company or a group of fans that incorporated to produce the material. The only small company I can think of that would buy the license is FASA, so you'd have Modern Earthdawn as the next release. Unless a group of fans like those here can get together money to create a company, purchase the license, then all agree on what the next edition will be like (and I'm sure we can all agree on how the game should be made, right?).

tenchi2a

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 120
« Reply #80 on: <08-18-19/0032:29> »
@ FastJack
I was referring to CGL shadowrun line, I should have been clearer.
A 3rd edition revised with lessons learned from 4th and 5th would be great. (Inline matrix turns, etc.)
And the doom saying about FASA is getting old.
I highly doubt FASA would try to push the Earthdawn system on shadowrun players and expected it to sell.
And seeing it connection to the original FASA, I would assume if they wanted the licence they would probably move to 3rd edition as that was the one that FASA produced, and still has a following.

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2802
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #81 on: <08-18-19/0239:32> »
I'm not super worried, SR is a strong IP. If it gets pulled which isn't any sort of a certainty, there is more up and comers in gaming books right now there we have seen in a good while.  SR is certainly more popular then L5R and that's plugged along in the face of several poorly performing editions.  Maybe Pegasus wants a crack at the US market. I'd certainly give their version a look.
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

tenchi2a

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 120
« Reply #82 on: <08-20-19/1710:17> »
I'm not super worried, SR is a strong IP. If it gets pulled which isn't any sort of a certainty, there is more up and comers in gaming books right now there we have seen in a good while.  SR is certainly more popular then L5R and that's plugged along in the face of several poorly performing editions.  Maybe Pegasus wants a crack at the US market. I'd certainly give their version a look.

After the Clan invasion KS ($2.5+ million/11+ thousand backers) vs. the Sprawl Ops. KS ($293 thousand/2.6+ thousand backers)I am starting to wonder if CGL is looking at Shadowrun as that other game we have with a little support.
I know from comments by the CGL creative team that CGL is not that big of a company and for the Clan invasion KS they needed to bring in some new temporary full time help to handle the designs and modeling.
So with the overwhelming success of the Clan invasion KS and the mediocre response to the Sprawl Ops. KS, it make me think that if Shadowrun 6th ed. doesn't do well CGL may choose to either drop support for the licence or just throw it some support every once in a while when they're not busy with Battletech.

The point is a major fail here could either kill the line or put it into "redheaded stepchild" mode.
And from what I am hearing and seeing we are well on are way to that.

FastJack

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6374
  • Kids these days...
« Reply #83 on: <08-20-19/1724:22> »
Why would Pegasus want to publish in the US? They are happy taking games produced here and getting the license to translate them to German for the German market. They are not game developers, they are a production company and translators.

Typhus

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 386
« Reply #84 on: <08-20-19/1751:03> »
Quote
And from what I am hearing and seeing we are well on are way to that.

+1.  This is why I am an advocate for this book being rewritten. 

topcat

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 93
« Reply #85 on: <08-20-19/2307:26> »
I'm still amazed they haven't given up on print books for print-on-demand options.  Reduce your costs, embrace the future of 2006.

FastJack

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6374
  • Kids these days...
« Reply #86 on: <08-21-19/0755:39> »
I'm still amazed they haven't given up on print books for print-on-demand options.  Reduce your costs, embrace the future of 2006.
They may be heading that way. BattleTech just released their Chaos Campaign: Succession Wars on DriveThruRPG as PoD.

tenchi2a

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 120
« Reply #87 on: <08-21-19/1647:50> »
Why would Pegasus want to publish in the US? They are happy taking games produced here and getting the license to translate them to German for the German market. They are not game developers, they are a production company and translators.

Not sure if you remember, but so was FanPro before they became the main company for Shadowrun/Battletech.
So I don't see the point of this argument as it has already been done ones in the lifetime of Shadowrun?

FastJack

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6374
  • Kids these days...
« Reply #88 on: <08-21-19/1653:10> »
Why would Pegasus want to publish in the US? They are happy taking games produced here and getting the license to translate them to German for the German market. They are not game developers, they are a production company and translators.

Not sure if you remember, but so was FanPro before they became the main company for Shadowrun/Battletech.
So I don't see the point of this argument as it has already been done ones in the lifetime of Shadowrun?
That worked out so well for FanPro, too.

tenchi2a

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 120
« Reply #89 on: <08-21-19/1707:49> »
Why would Pegasus want to publish in the US? They are happy taking games produced here and getting the license to translate them to German for the German market. They are not game developers, they are a production company and translators.

Not sure if you remember, but so was FanPro before they became the main company for Shadowrun/Battletech.
So I don't see the point of this argument as it has already been done ones in the lifetime of Shadowrun?
That worked out so well for FanPro, too.

Since their issues had to do with not owning their own warehousing and shipping, and Fast Forward Entertainment (the fulfillment company) going under don't see your point.
The point is/was that you made a statement that "Why would Pegasus want to publish in the US" as if this was something that no Germany company would do, and it has already been done.
And with proper planing (something that FanPro missed) who wouldn't want to increase their market from a business point of view.