[Herr Brackhaus]

I wonder if the usefulness (or lack thereof, as some would say) of drones in combat isn't entirely intentional. I mean, drones are presented as ubiquitous, sure, but I don't think I've ever read a piece of fluff where they presented an actual concentrated threat.

If they were supposed to be combat monsters their stats would probably reflect as much. As is, a milspec drone can reach 14 dice in combat, more if swarming, while most ordinary drones will hit 10 or so. That's still respectable unless you're playing elite runners with pools on the 18 plus range,  something I feel is quite common on this board. Look at the example characters; their dice pools aren't nearly that high, and until you hit PR5 opponents neither are the NPCs.

So I'm left wondering if drones are balanced for a more moderate playstyle, while their limitations means they can't be upscaled to stick it out with high-end runners. I can't help but feel that's a good thing, personally. As Rigger 5.0 puts it, if the rigger could be the whole team, why would you need other runners?

[UnLimiTeD]

Well, that is correct, however it is easily possible to build a runner at start who outdoes drones in everything, and the official missions seem to assume as much because you better be able to soak a sniper round if you wanna get anywhere.
That aside, even if that "moderate level" was well suited to drones, if drones scale that bad I don't foresee too many people going for them. It's like you're building the wall you'll later run into.
Whether they were meant to be weak is an interesting question when we try to figure out how certain rules were meant, though we'd have to ask someone for that.

[Herr Brackhaus]

To be fair, if you're talking about season 5 missions that sniper round is in a Pushing The Limit section, not intended for beginners.

As for drones being weak, I think Wakshaani pretty much stated as much in the Rigger 5 errata thread. I'll see if I can find a quote.

[UnLimiTeD]

Yeah, I've read the argument.
If drones were too powerful, they'd replace people, which in return leads to drones being completely nonsensical as people do everything but surveilance better for a reasonable price.
What mostly irks me about that is A) vehicles can be drones, too, and they magically work.
And B) the cost. If a drone with it's very low defense pool gets busted where a Sam would have dodged, then sure, the Rigger has 2 more to do the job, but he's 10k short in the end while the Sam just takes a nap.

[Jack_Spade]

The real problem is that damned rule that a drone that has it's monitor filled with damage can't be repaired anymore.
Just allow them to have an overflow like characters and a major headache goes away. Instead of buying the stuff all new he can now repair them or reuse their parts.

[UnLimiTeD]

Yup, that would solve it. Could just do overflow based on size.

[Herr Brackhaus]

That's a good houserule, Jack_Spade, I'll steal that.

[DeathEatsCurry]

If they were supposed to be combat monsters their stats would probably reflect as much.

There's a difference between being a combat monster and being adequate in combat, though. Much like how shadowrunners are a cut above rent-a-cops and similar security threats, I expect drones used by a shadowrunner rigger to be a cut above the average security drone, be it because of modifications or rigger skills. As it is, drones feel like they have almost no place in combat. The few drones that are somewhat viable for combat are either too slow or cumbersome to bring with you, or to whip out when the drek hits the fan. Even as fire support their usefulness is shaky at best. Honestly, the only kind of combat drones actually feel competent at (no, I don't consider spamming suppressive fire a sign of competence) is sniping. The fact pure sniper archetypes are (in my opinion) a huge character creation trap, and the usefulness of aerial drones gives them a small niche in here. But that's really about it. What originally struck me as cool about (drone) riggers is their ability to serve as a toolbox for your team. Sure,their combat drones shouldn't be able to replace the resident street samurai, but it shouldn't be less of a threat than a fracking ganger with a basebal bat either.

Bottom line is: I'd like to play a drone rigger with combat capability, but as it is, I'm beginning like drone riggers are being shoved to being vehicle-with-a-minor-in-some-drones riggers. Which kind of blows.

[falar]

Bottom line is: I'd like to play a drone rigger with combat capability, but as it is, I'm beginning like drone riggers are being shoved to being vehicle-with-a-minor-in-some-drones riggers. Which kind of blows.

Steel Lynx + Armor 20 = super solid combat drone. Add gecko-tipped motivators and you can easily take stairs.

[gradivus]

Unless the teams willing to chip in for replacing your drones, drones are a real money sink.

Samurai for the most part spend their nuyen in chargen and dream of someday having that delta grade synaptic booster 3... but while they're waiting, the 400k they put in their body works just fine.

All the money riggers sink into drones, sooner or later goes out the window as the drone dies.

[Kincaid]

Traditional combat drones are tricky.  One of the guys I play Missions with shelved his rigger after the repair/replacement costs incurred during Dragon Song.  The most effective things I've done with them are support, not primary assault, and alpha strikes.  If the bad guys have a choice of targets between your drone and the sam, make the opportunity cost of attacking the drone too high.  This is generally done through range and visibility modifiers (R5 introduces speed and size modifiers to this as well).  If you're sure that spending one IP will result in the removal of the drone, it's probably worth it.  If you're not, you risk giving other opponents too many unhindered actions by devoting multiple IPs to swatting drones.

[UnLimiTeD]

Steel Lynx + Armor 20 = super solid combat drone. Add gecko-tipped motivators and you can easily take stairs.

True, you can ake it work with some dedication.
But it's also a highly illegal, rather obvious hunk of metal that costs several multitudes of it's base cost to actually get to that much armour.
Assuming you pay for every 3 points of armour, you'll pay 48600 to get 21 armour, and then you'll have to upgrade the engine to increase it's mobility again. Yes, it works, and it can be good in combat, but it's still worse than the sam, and it'll replace one as you'll have to directly pilot it or it's just a solid bullet sponge.
The stairs better be damn sturdy, though, as you'd need 18 structure rating (Reinforced Concrete is 16) to make it climb walls. Maybe you can make it fly instead?
In the end, a concept like this works for the reason gradivus mentions above: It might actually survive.

[Herr Brackhaus]

To be fair, 15+ Armor should be sufficient for any opponent except spec-ops PR5 and PR6 enemies packing anti-vehicle weapons. Shotguns and Sniper Rifles are the only weapons with base DVs in the range of 13+, and assuming semi-competent goons you're looking at 2-3 net hits. In other words, once you reach AV 15+ your drone is pretty much immune to small arms fire, and when you get to 18+ your drone is impervious to everything but dedicated AV weaponry like sniper rifles packing APDS rounds. At that level, even shadowrunners are going to be looking at some serious damage.

[gradivus]

personally I preferred the Bumblebee at extreme range with a sniper rifle... that is until they nerfed the Bumblebee

[Herr Brackhaus]

At extreme range with a sniper rifle, you don't even need a Bumblebee. Just get a Roto-drone, add a (concealed) weapon mount, and keep it out of range of everything else.